This transcript was automatically generated and might contain errors.

[0:00] Susan Blackwell: The Spark File podcast may contain profanity and other adult content.

[0:04] Laura Camien: Please use your discretion.

[0:10] Susan Blackwell: When I bump into something that inspires me, I jump in my spark files.

[0:18] Laura Camien: Spark will be something that I wanna make or how I wanna be.

[0:23] Susan Blackwell: I pump it in my spark spot.

[0:28] Laura Camien: I jump into my sparks.

[0:32] Susan Blackwell: Let's open up this spark file.

[0:37] Laura Camien: Welcome to the Spark File, where we believe that everyone is creative, but smart creative people don't go it alone.

[0:44] Susan Blackwell: I'm Laura Camien.

[0:45] Susan Blackwell: And I'm Susan Blackwell.

[0:46] Laura Camien: If you're joining us for the first time, welcome. But you may be asking yourself, what the fuck is a spark file? Where do I get one? Hey, where do I file in it? These are such good questions. We actually do have an answer for you. A spark file is the place where you consistently collect all your inspirations and fascinations.

[1:05] Susan Blackwell: And if you're like us and you're making stuff all the time, you know that sometimes the wellspring of inspiration can run a little dry. We're here to refill it. Just full disclosure. I just got really self-conscious that I just said fuck right off the bat, and our guest's mom is gonna hear this.

[1:22] Laura Camien: Oh, you can warn your mom.

[1:24] Susan Blackwell: Warn all the moms. For you, we are here and we are on the lookout for fresh ideas, images, and inspiration that spark our creativity and pique curiosity. Things that inspire us to get up off of our asses and make things like this very podcast.

[1:41] Susan Blackwell: Or a Tony nominated Broadway and off Broadway theatrical career that spans drama to comedy to musicals, the full Monty baby. Or a career that has given voice to other writers' essays on this American life. Or a TV career that spans the gamut from Law and Order to Madam Secretary to House of Cards to Boardwalk Empire to the Blacklist and on and on and on.

[2:11] Laura Camien: Or an as-yet unshared series of short stories, aka Samblasted Buttes, that we are certain you will love as much as we do. On today's Maker's show, we're gonna talk with someone who truly sparks us. And that special someone is John Ellison Conlee.

[2:31] Susan Blackwell: JEC, welcome to the Spark File.

[2:37] John Ellison Conlee: Oh my gosh, I'm so excited to be here. A couple of things. A couple of notes. Susan, a couple of notes.

[2:51] John Ellison Conlee: I had to do a couple takes. A couple takes. It's all gonna be cleaned up in post. You're just gonna punch it in. We're gonna punch it into.

[3:06] John Ellison Conlee: Sorry, Mom.

[3:07] Susan Blackwell: Does your mom use profanity, John?

[3:10] John Ellison Conlee: No, not really. We really are. Sorry, Mom. Is she gonna be displeased with someone she's never met because I use profanity in the presence of her son?

[3:19] John Ellison Conlee: No. No, no, no, no. Uh she she tolerates it well. She doesn't use it herself, but uh, but Celia loves to tell a story about um early in our relationship. We all went out for my mom's birthday. My sister was there too. We were uh outside DC. We were in Alexandria. And Celia is, of course, your lovely wife.

[3:43] John Ellison Conlee: Celia Keenan-Bolger, my lovely wife. Yeah. Um, was telling a story, and uh and was just like, oh, and then this fucking, you know, whatever, just let them pause. And just watched, was able to watch my mom process it in her eyes. Just that, you know, like brrrrrrr. A little eye trimmer. And then, you know, like I she already, of course, completely loved Celia by that point.

[4:10] John Ellison Conlee: Celia could have said, could have gone on some sort of incredible tirade at that point and would still be. Yes, yes. Typic that would be typical of her, as we all know. Um but yeah, there's nothing she could really have done to make my mother not love her at that point. But she's pretty lovable. But still, there was a little eye flutter.

[4:30] Laura Camien: Well, I feel like I still have a chance at really alienating your mom. Um, so you give it a shot.

[4:34] John Ellison Conlee: We've got this whole listen. Yeah, don't be afraid of it. What's your mom saying? Turn right into that skid, Eve. Hi Eve.

[4:46] John Ellison Conlee: Eve, you've got to go fuck yourself.

[4:48] Laura Camien: Oh no, we're so glad you're listening.

[4:50] John Ellison Conlee: That's too much. It's too far. I feel uncomfortable. That was a bridge too far. It was too much. That was this has been another episode of the Spark Bowl Podcast. I'm so glad we did this, you guys.

[5:02] Susan Blackwell: Oh my god. So glad we did this. Listen, Laura. We're so happy. We're so fucking happy that you are joining us today. You have no idea.

[5:16] Susan Blackwell: We do need to do just a full disclosure for our listeners, though. Um, for those of you just tuning in, John Ellison Conlee is a Tony nominated Broadway actor. You've heard his voice in your earbuds, you've seen his face on your TV.

[5:34] Susan Blackwell: He is also an extraordinary writer.

[5:38] John Ellison Conlee: Truth.

[5:39] Susan Blackwell: Truth. And in addition to all that, he's also a Spark File client. And I think I speak for both Suze and I when I say you are an absolute fucking delight to work with.

[5:51] John Ellison Conlee: And Eve, I want you to know that. Your son is a motherfucking delight to work with.

[5:57] Susan Blackwell: That's true. It's true. So amazing. John, please never play this for your mother.

[6:03] John Ellison Conlee: The motherfucking pleasure is mine.

[6:05] Laura Camien: Oh boy. This is we're gonna get in trouble with somebody for sure. Send your emails to Eve.conley at gmail.com.

[6:17] Laura Camien: All right, John, tell us where you are right now and how you are right now for reels.

[6:22] John Ellison Conlee: I am in Wingdale, New York.

[6:24] Laura Camien: Wingdale, about an hour ago. Just give them your street address.

[6:28] John Ellison Conlee: Holy cow. You couldn't just show up in Wingdale and find me, I don't think. Um, but uh I'm I'm here and uh it's hot as blazes, but uh we we have the swimming pool. It's uh I'm sure I'm gonna get in with my boy later today after he comes back from day camp.

[6:48] Laura Camien: That sounds absolutely lovely. How are you right now?

[6:53] John Ellison Conlee: It's been a nutty time. How are you?

[6:55] Laura Camien: It has been a nutty time. Uh, you know, I'm I'm doing pretty well. You know, the world is just full of horrible surprises at all times. But uh but we're navigating okay so far, and and also there are wonderful things. And some of those are are we experiencing. So given all the possibilities.

[7:22] John Ellison Conlee: I feel like it's like whitewater rafting. Lots of big surprises, but it's thrilling when you get like over a hump and over a waterfall and you land safely.

[7:33] Laura Camien: John, you're an introvert. Wouldn't you say that's true?

[7:36] John Ellison Conlee: Yeah, I would describe myself that way.

[7:37] Laura Camien: Yeah. I finally have found what I think is appropriate language for is that for us introverts. Quarantine has been lovely.

[7:48] John Ellison Conlee: Not pandemic. Pandemic is a global pandemic is, you know, is fraught. But certain elements of quarantine have been really nice for the introverts.

[7:58] Laura Camien: Absolutely. And it, you know, it's so it's so much harder for my wife, who uh is such a classic extrovert and draws energy from being around, you know, all kind strangers and friends and and all of that.

[8:17] John Ellison Conlee: And you know, for me, I I don't love, for example, uh being in charge of all of my self-taping for auditions and things like that. But not ever having to go to a an office with a bunch of people that is I don't miss that. Don't miss that.

[8:34] Laura Camien: Yeah. Not so fast, little buddies. Before we go much further, we have to request the Spark File Price of Admission. John Ellison Conlee, can you tell us a creative risk you have recently taken?

[8:49] John Ellison Conlee: Yes. Uh I, as you know, I've been doing some writing, and it's mostly like short stories and things, but I do have a couple of uh pieces that or or things in development that are gonna be scripts. One of them is a particularly stupid uh sort of I mean intentionally stupid. It's not like I tried for it to be brilliant and it came out stupid. I was going for stupid and and I and I think I got it.

[9:22] John Ellison Conlee: Uh but uh it's just an outline. But I approached uh a friend who is an established very uh successful, well-known writer, because I I got to a point where I was like, I I no longer feel like I'm gonna be able to to do with this what it needs. Uh-huh uh to in order to be what it what it should be. And so I what the piece wants to be.

[9:50] John Ellison Conlee: That's right. What the piece wants, you know, I'm just a vessel. I've heard that about you. I uh, you know, I'm not making anything. It's just what the piece wants to be.

[9:59] Laura Camien: That's right. And I yeah, I approached this this friend of mine and sort of pitched it to him, which uh uh was thrilling and mortifying and uh felt very vulnerable, but also like uh what the hell? Oh my god.

[10:19] John Ellison Conlee: And the uh the result is we don't know, still have a cliffhanger.

[10:26] Laura Camien: Ah well, you know what? You know what? You can end your season on this if you want. I think we're going to tune in to season three, find out what the fuck happened.

[10:37] John Ellison Conlee: Matt pitch. Listen, the good news is it's not always about the end result. It is about taking that risk and taking that step. So what you just described officially admits you into the Spark File.

[10:53] Laura Camien: Qualified. Glorious. Listen, for people who don't know you, can you tell us how do you identify creatively? Like when people ask, what do you do? How do you answer that question?

[11:06] John Ellison Conlee: Uh I just say I'm an actor.

[11:08] Laura Camien: Yeah. Do you feel like that is shifting or is on the move at all? Do you think that there'll come a time when that expands?

[11:17] John Ellison Conlee: I I hope so. I hope so. Um if for no other reason than if you tell strangers that you're an actor, that leads to the worst conversations generally.

[11:29] John Ellison Conlee: Um so uh so I hope it changes or I come up with a better answer. But uh yeah, it's um, you know, I I do hope to to include other uh slashes in my descriptor.

[11:45] Laura Camien: John, have you largely fancied yourself up to this point in your life an interpretive artist? You interpret other people's words, for instance, as an actor, you step into existing opportunities. Has that largely been your path?

[12:02] John Ellison Conlee: Yes. Um, and that that you know is is easier in a lot of ways and safer in a lot of ways. And for for some actors, I think it's also pretty frustrating. And I've I have found that. I've definitely um, you know, my job is sometimes so much fun to do, and then other times it's it's difficult.

[12:30] John Ellison Conlee: And part of that is I do think having a kind of sensibility that makes uh makes me want to to alter things. You know, I want to, I wanna get, you know, I'm inspired by something, and then I want to run with it as opposed to just being like, yes, I see what this is and I can fulfill that function.

[12:51] Laura Camien: Yes. Tell us a bit about your path as an originating artist. Like, did that desire start to creep up? Was it always there? And did it start to creep up at a certain time?

[13:04] John Ellison Conlee: You know, I've always I've always felt it and I've always sort of dabbled in it. I've always done little tiny things and you know, written monologues for myself when I was trying to get into school.

[13:18] John Ellison Conlee: And I went to grad school at NYU for acting, and that program is also very, or I don't I can't speak to what it's like now, though I suspect there's still at least a similarity. But it was uh one of the things that they that they try to do is create uh artists who are not just interpretive but are are creative through a fair amount of sort of making our own stuff as well as the other. And I I got to do that uh at school a fair amount and and always really enjoyed it. And and I, you know, I I got close to a couple of things sort of in the in the comedy world that were about creating my own material, but I I never uh I never booked any of those jobs, and I was never I was mostly in those rooms uh competing with people who did that full time, you know, people who were sketch comedy artists or uh stand-ups or or the like.

And I can't say that that world felt like a place I wanted to go. I didn't want to, you know, venture out solo. But a part of that I think was just fear too. That I I came from this background where I sort of gained instant legitimacy for for you know perhaps bogus reasons, but uh, you know, an MFA out of NYU and I have an agent and a you know legit so-called theatrical career. Yeah, and so it was safer for me to stay in that rather than like, hey guys, want to start a sketch group, you know, right? And so I I not that long ago, I began to sort of think back on the time that I made those choices as maybe a mistake, where I I felt like, you know, I I do find it rewarding to do other people's words, and especially sometimes when I'm gifted with incredible, you know, Ethan Lipton words or Madeline George words or or something like that. But um at the same time, I do feel like I I have stories that I want to tell and and that I do really enjoy creating uh different things.

[15:50] Laura Camien: So you're the kind of person though, you have enough success as an interpretive artist that you could just continue unquestioned, you could just continue on in your life and have what has looked like from the outside, a very rich career, you know, with a lot of really interesting opportunities. But I think it's interesting that there's something inside of you that has sort of continued to even quietly knock on your door and ask to be let out. And I'm curious, when you began coaching with us, was were there specific challenges around your creativity that you wanted to tackle?

[16:33] John Ellison Conlee: I mean, the main thing, as I think I expressed was I I wanted just to finish things because I I have a kind of brain and uh I don't know, uh lack of of structured creating time that I I had a lot of, as you know, I've I've coined them manuscripts.

[16:54] Laura Camien: Yes.

[16:55] John Ellison Conlee: TM. That was just the best Freudian slip. Can we just tell people? We were talking to John Ellison Conlee, who was like expressing this very frustration about like, oh, I have all these like many like scraps, manuscripts, and it became our favorite little discovery because manuscripts can be like our post-it notes, our little like napkin doodles of like, oh my god, a manuscript. It's just waiting to become a manuscript.

[17:28] John Ellison Conlee: Well, I regard I I have a bunch of them, and uh, and my goal really was was just to find some impetus to finish them, you know, finish some of them and and experience that. But you know, I'm I'm still in search of a of a more routine creative process, a more like this is a habit that I've created that I can do every day, and I and that continues to be elusive. On the other hand, I I have uh finished a number of of things, and yeah, and you know, so I I'm not entirely, you know, I don't feel like I I've conquered anything, but I but I've taken some good steps.

[18:13] Laura Camien: I hypothesize when you enter into a collaboration that is going to create out of necessity the structure that you may need to get things done on a deadline. Because you show up when we have meetings, you show up, you are prepared, you've gotten shit done. Um you're there, like you're totally there for it. You underestimate how much shit you've gotten done always. You are a classic underestimator. We know you truly.

[18:42] Susan Blackwell: We know you as a fucking prolific idea generator, and we know you as a completer. Like you have completed a number of short stories in this amount of time, what you call sandblasted butes.

[19:03] John Ellison Conlee: We've never heard that phrase before, but now all short stories shall be sandblasted butes. Can you tell us a little bit about like what what does that mean to you and uh the just the goals that you set for this time together and how it feels to have achieved them?

[19:22] John Ellison Conlee: Honestly, I think sandblasted buttes was one of those things that um I think you had sent something out that suggested, oh, you're gonna be asked to come up with a name for your thing, but I hadn't actually read that. And so then in the moment you were like, So what are you gonna call these? And I was like, you know, sandblasted buttes, and then that so you know I don't know that it needs to be it needs to be uh enshrined anywhere. But uh it is a you know too late too late too late.

[19:53] Laura Camien: Too late.

[19:55] John Ellison Conlee: It is done. Um but yeah, I just wanted to finish a few things and uh with a degree of polish that isn't necessarily like they they are beyond any further work, but that I could share with people that I could share with uh friends and and ideally professionals uh and and learn about how to get better at doing it and and then keep doing it. That's sort of the the modest that I've that I've set and feel like I'm on the way to.

[20:32] Laura Camien: Yeah, we would say that as well. We're super excited to share one of John's buttes, San Blasted as it were. But before we do, John, can you tell us the original spark for this story? Anything else you want the listener to know about it?

[20:49] John Ellison Conlee: Yeah, this was something that I started doing because I felt like I had always told myself if I had a little more time, I would actually do more writing.

[21:01] Laura Camien: Shh, you are not alone, my friend.

[21:03] John Ellison Conlee: And then this, you know, this pandemic came, and I just started writing. And I I felt like I don't really have an idea where this is going, but I'm gonna write, and I'm just gonna try and entertain myself with my writing. And I was writing on a sort of tablet, handwritten, and I just would try as much as possible to write without thinking too much about it, right? Just things that were entertaining to me. And you know, as it started to get a little bit longer, it started to feel more daunting to try and figure out how to finish it up and all of that. And and I knew that I sort of had to finish it, that this was one, you know, that if I if I didn't finish this one, that that was just gonna be another of the sort of manuscripts taunting me.

[21:54] Laura Camien: Yes.

[21:55] John Ellison Conlee: Uh I just kind of pushed through and um and after I finished it, I was not very happy with it. I had just read it a lot, and uh and I it wasn't what I had originally envisioned, though I hadn't really originally envisioned anything, which is complicated. Uh, you know, it wasn't it just didn't feel exactly right, and and so I put it away for a while, and then I came back to it when I was about to start work with with you guys, and I thought, oh, you know, there's there's some interesting stuff here, and and I worked on it a little more and and ultimately I feel I feel pretty good about it now, but it is unusual, and I can't uh say that a lot of my other writing is particularly like it.

[22:46] John Ellison Conlee: Uh there are elements, and I and I feel like I I have a couple of things that are in the in the manuscript stage uh that are more in the vein of of this, but it is, it's a little bit of a standalone for the moment.

[23:02] Laura Camien: I want.

[23:03] John Ellison Conlee: Well, maybe we should listen to it and then we'll talk about what I want and my needs.

[23:09] Susan Blackwell: So without further ado, this is Cup of Joe by John Ellison Copley.

[23:15] John Ellison Conlee: Right. Well, I'd always felt the need to cultivate a little bit of fuck it. And with the state of the world as it was then, which is to say precarious and nefarious, it looked to me that now was just about as good a time as I was gonna get. So into the hall closet, and there hidden in the back behind my coat of respectability was just what I was looking for. My old jacket, youthful exuberance. And what do you know, still fit like the skin on a ripe wine sap or honey crisp? Sweep the keys off the top of the counter, strap in, and spray gravel across the shrubbery. Now, you can't just drop by the fuck it store, not without an appointment, not unless it's a Wednesday, which it was, but definitely not before 10 a.m., which it also was.

And anyway, a good strong cup of giddy up would go a long way to put me in the proper hormonal harmonials for the aforementioned fuck it. So a quick stop at Dutch's was put on the docket. And what do you know? My favorite parking spot opened up before me like magic, as though the cosmos had baked me a birthday cake, though of course it was quite a bit larger than any cake, with the possible exception of the 17 layer that Del Vanderkoop made in 26 to celebrate his invention to stop lightning, a celebration which turned out to be somewhat premature. Slip on into my favorite spot and through the door into Dutch's, and old Chet behind the counter calls out, Well, aren't you something else? Calling back to an event some couple or three years ago, and I respond in kind with only my mother truly knows, and then we share a chuckle, and then down to business.

One large coffee, as hot and as black as you have, a handful of pecans, and let me have a look at your hats. Well, old Chet's gaze never leaves me as he pulls a silver neck chain out from inside his shirt, revealing the large brass key he keeps there on his chest. The gleam in Chet's eyes makes it clear he knows something pretty special is about to happen. Let's see. I'm thinking you want something to go with that jacket. Not sure I've seen you wear that one before. Well, old Chet was right. He hadn't. You see, Chet had moved to Turnersville just seven years ago, coming with the wave of folks who were forced to move when people and buildings started spontaneously bursting into flame outside the old barber college in Reedsville.

So Chet hadn't been here during my teen years, before the years of confident certainty, which preceded the years of damage beyond repair and the decade of self-doubt. Looks good. Fits you like the skin of a pink lady, or maybe an empire. Had a pretty good eye, did old Chet. Not perfect, but pretty damn good. Yep, I said. I'm headed into town to pick up a little fuckett and could use a hat that supports my new direction. A raised eyebrow was all that he offered in reply, but Chet slid the brass key back into his shirt and moved quickly down past the end of the ornate hat case and reached for a pair of ropes that were hanging on a hook next to the door. We're gonna need these, he said, leading us back out to a large open area. There's not a domesticated hat I've seen in this world that'll work for you today.

[26:32] John Ellison Conlee: Not for the journey you're undertaking.

[26:34] John Ellison Conlee: We're gonna have to lasso one from out back, he said.

[26:38] John Ellison Conlee: They're pretty frisky.

[26:39] John Ellison Conlee: They've just come down from their winter habitat in the mountains to graze here and look for mates.

[26:45] John Ellison Conlee: Chet gestured to me to be quiet, then slowly moved forward, scanning the surroundings.

[26:51] John Ellison Conlee: They like to hide out in the shady areas mostly, though they'll move around a bit more at dawn and dusk to feed.

[26:58] John Ellison Conlee: Let's see if we get lucky.

[27:00] John Ellison Conlee: Then old Chet squatted down back on his heels, still scanning back and forth, looking for movement in the shadows.

[27:07] John Ellison Conlee: Soon enough there was a quick flash of spotted skin and a slash of morning light near a fence, a leopard print hat band on a broad-brimmed panama.

[27:17] John Ellison Conlee: Not a contender, not for you.

[27:19] John Ellison Conlee: We'll leave them for someone else, whispered old Chet over his shoulder.

[27:24] John Ellison Conlee: Then there was a fluttering, whirring sensation over in the shade alongside a stand of loblolly pines, followed by a sudden dash of movement.

[27:32] John Ellison Conlee: A borsolino out in the open, a fantastically rich and varied gray with a subtle contrasting band.

[27:39] John Ellison Conlee: Chet sprang up to his full height and with one swift movement let fly with a lasso.

[27:44] John Ellison Conlee: Got him, said Chet, pulling a leather glove onto his free hand with his teeth and pulling back hard on the rope with the other.

[27:50] John Ellison Conlee: Looks to be a seven and five-eighths, maybe seven and three-quarters, he said, bending his knees and bracing himself against the fighting borsolino.

[27:58] John Ellison Conlee: And fighting it was.

[27:59] John Ellison Conlee: That sucker was lasso'd good and knew it.

[28:02] John Ellison Conlee: I picked up the other rope, fashioned a quick hanson loop as I'd been taught by my mother so long ago, and let fly.

[28:08] John Ellison Conlee: Right on with the light on, said Chet, and we were both pulling against that Borsellino for all we were worth.

[28:15] John Ellison Conlee: Well, that little Borsolino didn't want to give up, but soon began to tire.

[28:19] John Ellison Conlee: Old Chet and I worked together, leaving a little space to run and then bringing it back over and over until it was almost within arm's reach.

[28:27] John Ellison Conlee: I'm gonna pull it in close.

[28:29] John Ellison Conlee: You reach out and grab on tight and see if you can get it up on your noggin.

[28:33] John Ellison Conlee: Old Chet did as he said, and when that Borsolino was pulled in close, as quick as I could, I dropped my rope and grabbed it, one hand on the brim and one on the crown.

[28:42] John Ellison Conlee: It felt smooth and warm, but you could feel rippling muscle underneath, and a heart beating fast with exertion and fear.

[28:50] John Ellison Conlee: Easy, I said, bringing the Borsolino in close.

[28:53] John Ellison Conlee: The twitching suddenly stopped, and the hat went still, though that heart continued its mad drum solo.

[29:00] John Ellison Conlee: A few gentle strokes, trying to instill calm, and then it was time to attempt a mount.

[29:06] John Ellison Conlee: Always the trickiest part of breaking in a wild hat, as I'm sure you know.

[29:11] John Ellison Conlee: Both hands on, firm but not hard, and ever so slowly I lifted the hat up towards the top of my head.

[29:18] John Ellison Conlee: As it passed in front of my eyes, I took in the color, a glorious gray that changed subtly in the light, offering greens and blues and browns and even a tinge of pink.

[29:28] John Ellison Conlee: Truly a beautiful hat, but right now a fearful one.

[29:33] John Ellison Conlee: At that moment I knew this hat would be an unwilling participant in any adventures that might ensue, and I knew that our destinies were not bound together.

[29:42] John Ellison Conlee: It's a beautiful hat, Chet, I said, but not mine, I'm afraid.

[29:48] John Ellison Conlee: Old Chet looked surprised at first, and hurt even.

[29:52] John Ellison Conlee: But looking at that Borsolino, tense and coiled for an opportunity to escape, he knew that I was right.

[29:59] John Ellison Conlee: He looked away but nodded, acknowledging my decision.

[30:03] John Ellison Conlee: He dropped the rope and still not making eye contact, gestured with his gloved hand.

[30:09] John Ellison Conlee: The gesture was small, a tiny backhanded wave, but it said volumes.

[30:13] John Ellison Conlee: It said that I was right, but that it was hard.

[30:17] John Ellison Conlee: It said that doing the right thing isn't always easy, but that it is always right.

[30:22] John Ellison Conlee: It said, You do you, but more than that, it said, I love you.

[30:29] John Ellison Conlee: Great gesture, man, I said to Chet.

[30:31] John Ellison Conlee: Very expressive.

[30:33] John Ellison Conlee: He shrugged, and then I crouched down and whispered a final message to the Borsolino, which had so recently been my quarry, but now felt almost like a colleague.

[30:43] John Ellison Conlee: Go out and live your life.

[30:45] John Ellison Conlee: Know that you are free and beautiful, and that you were up for whatever life throws at you.

[30:51] John Ellison Conlee: Your freedom is not a gift, but it is to be appreciated.

[30:55] John Ellison Conlee: Now run, and make yourself proud of the life you lead.

[30:59] John Ellison Conlee: Without more fanfare, I let the hat go, and like a shot it took off, kicking up dust behind it.

[31:05] John Ellison Conlee: Just as it reached the far side of the field at the edge of the trees, it stopped and looked back.

[31:11] John Ellison Conlee: We shared a brief look, filled with the goods of life, and then, with the tip of the hat, she vanished into the shadows.

[31:21] John Ellison Conlee: Old Chet and I stood there a moment, taking in what had just happened and appreciating the beauty that surrounded us.

[31:28] John Ellison Conlee: Truly it was beautiful.

[31:30] John Ellison Conlee: Gold of the late morning shone all around, and we just stood there and soaked it up into our skin.

[31:38] John Ellison Conlee: Supposed to rain later, said Chet.

[31:40] John Ellison Conlee: Then we turned to head inside.

[31:43] John Ellison Conlee: Just then a rustle and a chirp came from the shadows, and a jaunty Homburg scampered up my leg and clung to my belt, breathing heavily but unafraid.

[31:52] John Ellison Conlee: Well, looky here, said Chet, stepping back to get a better look at the little interloper.

[31:57] John Ellison Conlee: Another butte also looks to be about your size.

[32:00] John Ellison Conlee: What do you say?

[32:01] John Ellison Conlee: Seems to me she's definitely made her pick.

[32:04] John Ellison Conlee: I turned and the little hat scrambled up my back and got on my shoulder.

[32:08] John Ellison Conlee: What do you think, Bingo?

[32:10] John Ellison Conlee: I said, for I'd already given the little spark plug a name.

[32:13] John Ellison Conlee: With a chirp, Bingo climbed onto my head and took a seat.

[32:17] John Ellison Conlee: No pawing or adjustment was needed.

[32:20] John Ellison Conlee: A perfect fit.

[32:21] John Ellison Conlee: Truly one of the all-time great fits.

[32:25] John Ellison Conlee: Guess that settles it, said Chet.

[32:28] John Ellison Conlee: And he was right.

[32:29] John Ellison Conlee: It did.

[32:30] John Ellison Conlee: Come on, Bingo, I said, and the three of us headed inside.

[32:34] John Ellison Conlee: As we passed that intricately carved hat case, I was aware of how very lucky I was.

[32:40] John Ellison Conlee: They were nice hats to be sure.

[32:42] John Ellison Conlee: Some were even beautiful, but none could give me what Bingo had.

[32:46] John Ellison Conlee: I reached up to take Bingo off my head as I entered the public area of the coffee shop, and Bingo eased out a gentle purr.

[32:54] John Ellison Conlee: Good girl, I said.

[32:56] John Ellison Conlee: With my coffee, my handful of pecans, and my new hat Bingo, I felt ready and steady to go and pick up a little fucket, so I reached for Dr.

[33:04] John Ellison Conlee: Wilson, my antique pocket watch.

[33:06] John Ellison Conlee: Dr.

[33:07] John Ellison Conlee: Wilson had been passed down from my great grandfather Evan, who'd named him after the country doctor who'd saved his life after a wind chime accident.

[33:16] John Ellison Conlee: He'd carried it for forty-one years and then gave it to my grandfather when he was sent away to be treated for shyness before the war.

[33:23] John Ellison Conlee: Nine fifty-three.

[33:25] John Ellison Conlee: Seems like we can head over, I said to Bingo.

[33:28] John Ellison Conlee: Old Chet was now serving someone else, so I rapped on the counter to let him know I was heading out, gave him a little wave.

[33:35] John Ellison Conlee: Chet never took his attention away from his customer, but gave a nod in my direction.

[33:40] John Ellison Conlee: Here we go, Bingo, I said, and Bingo rolled right up my arm and onto my head, ready for whatever might ensue.

[33:47] John Ellison Conlee: Back in the car, we sprayed a little more gravel and set out from Dutch's in hot pursuit of the fucking store.

[33:53] John Ellison Conlee: Now, a funny thing about that store is that it keeps regular hours, which to the uninitiated may seem to violate the spirit of fuck it, but here's how they end up square in the fuck it bucket.

[34:06] John Ellison Conlee: The location varies wildly and without warning.

[34:10] John Ellison Conlee: One day you might happen upon it out by the piano tuning collective, and then you might not see it for months.

[34:17] John Ellison Conlee: Then you wake up one day and they're doing a booming business in your basement, so you just never know where they might turn up.

[34:25] John Ellison Conlee: I was glad to have Bingo with me because another pair of eyes really helps when you're trying to find the fuck it store.

[34:31] John Ellison Conlee: Just then Bingo gave me one of her little chirps.

[34:34] John Ellison Conlee: What is it, girl?

[34:35] John Ellison Conlee: I said, and slowed the car a bit.

[34:37] John Ellison Conlee: We were just outside of downtown Turner'sville in the area known colloquially as the soup district.

[34:43] John Ellison Conlee: The locals here were known to sip soups throughout the day and into the night.

[34:48] John Ellison Conlee: Folks here were pretty private, but the pride they took in their thermoses was legendary, and that provided the key to opening them up.

[34:56] John Ellison Conlee: As I looked over, I saw Creed Horvath making his way down the sidewalk, eyes up at the sky, taking in the beautiful morning.

[35:03] John Ellison Conlee: Bingo, Bingo, I said, for I knew that Creed Horvath was one of those ear to the ground types who always seemed to know what was going on in Turnersville.

[35:11] John Ellison Conlee: He'd been the first to know when the town was going to run completely out of gumption, and the first to know when the gophers were having meetings to unionize.

[35:18] John Ellison Conlee: I spotted an open parking spot and checked the sign.

[35:21] John Ellison Conlee: No parking whatsoever Monday to Tuesday and Thursday to Sunday.

[35:25] John Ellison Conlee: Wednesday only, 9 45 to 10 fifteen, first six minutes free.

[35:30] John Ellison Conlee: We'd have to act fast, but all in all, perfect.

[35:34] John Ellison Conlee: I pulled in and parked and whispered to Bingo, let me do the talking, okay?

[35:38] John Ellison Conlee: I think I know how to handle this guy.

[35:40] John Ellison Conlee: Bingo gave a chirp of agreement, and I stepped onto the sidewalk just as Creed was approaching.

[35:45] John Ellison Conlee: Good morning, I said, and looked up at the sky.

[35:48] John Ellison Conlee: It's so beautiful now I can hardly believe it's gonna rain later.

[35:51] John Ellison Conlee: Apparently we're in for some real soup weather.

[35:54] John Ellison Conlee: Creed stopped and turned.

[35:56] John Ellison Conlee: What do you mean soup weather?

[35:57] John Ellison Conlee: Any weather's soup weather.

[35:59] John Ellison Conlee: I've got a lovely breakfast soup right here.

[36:02] John Ellison Conlee: Oh, well now that I think about it, I guess I only eat soup when I'm indoors, trying to be cozy in the bad weather, I said.

[36:09] John Ellison Conlee: I've got some fantastic cups and bowls, but feel like my soup would get too cold if I tried to take it anywhere.

[36:15] John Ellison Conlee: You mean to say you don't have a thermos?

[36:17] John Ellison Conlee: Creed bellowed, unbelieving.

[36:19] John Ellison Conlee: Uh what?

[36:20] John Ellison Conlee: I asked, feigning ignorance.

[36:22] John Ellison Conlee: Sweet marmalade on toast, he exclaimed, and guided me and Bingo over to a nearby bench.

[36:27] John Ellison Conlee: Take a look at this beauty here, he said, and held his thermos aloft.

[36:31] John Ellison Conlee: It was a beauty, and I recognized it though I did not let on.

[36:35] John Ellison Conlee: He was carrying one of the most famous thermoses in the Turnersville and Blanton and Ranford Tri-City area, for there in his hand was Louise, Ray Meacham's favorite from back in the clam chowder smuggling days.

[36:47] John Ellison Conlee: I stared in awe at Louise, which was real on my part, but also had the desired effect.

[36:53] John Ellison Conlee: Yes, sir, this is one of the finest examples of the ancient and noble art of the thermos, said Creed, enjoying my admiration.

[37:00] John Ellison Conlee: He took out a chamois to give the thermos a little extra shine in the sunlight.

[37:04] John Ellison Conlee: Everyone in Turnersville knew that Louise had been carved from an elk antler found back in the day when the elk were the size of elephants.

[37:12] John Ellison Conlee: The antler had been shed by an elk named Lou, who eluded the greatest hunters every season, and who taunted them by walking slowly down Main Street the day hunting season ended, smoking a pipe.

[37:23] John Ellison Conlee: This display angered the town, and every year a reward was offered to anyone who might find his discarded antler so that it could be ceremonially burned on the village green.

[37:34] John Ellison Conlee: Well, one year Jeremiah Punch Porter found the antler and got his reward, plus the honor of tossing it on the bonfire himself.

[37:43] John Ellison Conlee: When the day of the bonfire came, Punch put on his finest suit and headed out, pulling the enormous antler behind him on a cart.

[37:50] John Ellison Conlee: As he neared the fire, which was now a tremendous conflagration, he saw that the antlerless but still huge Lou was approaching the fire.

[37:58] John Ellison Conlee: Undaunted, Punch gathered all of his strength and flung the massive antler atop the blaze.

[38:03] John Ellison Conlee: What followed is in dispute, as some claim that there was an explosion of blue light, but the end result is uncontested.

[38:11] John Ellison Conlee: Three days later, when the fire was finally extinguished, Lou and Punch were both still there, and at the center of the ash heap was a section of antler that appeared undamaged in any way.

[38:22] John Ellison Conlee: It was about a foot long and about as big around as a horse's hoof, and it shone like red gold.

[38:28] John Ellison Conlee: Punch approached cautiously, eyeing Lou as he did so, and with his blacksmith tongs he retrieved the golden antler.

[38:35] John Ellison Conlee: He took it gingerly into his leather gloved hand and found that it was cool to the touch.

[38:40] John Ellison Conlee: He pressed it to his cheek.

[38:42] John Ellison Conlee: He addressed Lou now, who was looking directly at him.

[38:46] John Ellison Conlee: I salute you, Lou, and I thank you for the gift you've given me.

[38:51] John Ellison Conlee: I promise I will use this offering well, for clearly it has special powers to resist heat and protect itself.

[38:58] John Ellison Conlee: I will make it my life's work to find its truest and best purpose.

[39:03] John Ellison Conlee: And he did.

[39:05] John Ellison Conlee: It looks incredible, I said.

[39:07] John Ellison Conlee: Is there a story behind it?

[39:08] John Ellison Conlee: Oh, it's no story, friend.

[39:10] John Ellison Conlee: It keeps my soup at a perfect sipping simmer all day long.

[39:14] John Ellison Conlee: It can also keep soup cold if you have a gazpacho, for example, or a cold potato soup.

[39:19] John Ellison Conlee: He took a sip to demonstrate his point.

[39:21] John Ellison Conlee: What are you working on there?

[39:23] John Ellison Conlee: I asked.

[39:24] John Ellison Conlee: Well, this is a little breakfast soup that the wife and I enjoy.

[39:27] John Ellison Conlee: It's an egg chowder with bacon and whole wheat toast points crumbled in.

[39:31] John Ellison Conlee: That sounds amazing, I said.

[39:33] John Ellison Conlee: I'll have to tell my buddy about that.

[39:35] John Ellison Conlee: Of course, it can be hard to track him down since he started working at the fuck it store.

[39:40] John Ellison Conlee: Ha, well sure.

[39:42] John Ellison Conlee: They do like to get around and aren't too keen on advertising, said Creed with a chuckle.

[39:47] John Ellison Conlee: Of course I heard they were planning to open up over near Martha McSwain's place between the old observatory and the old deservatory.

[39:55] John Ellison Conlee: I thank you for that, friend, I said, and Bingo and I executed a gentle tip of the hat, more continental style than a classic Westerfield one hander.

[40:04] John Ellison Conlee: We jumped back in the car and lit out towards Martha McSwain's.

[40:08] John Ellison Conlee: I knew that we were headed near to the observatory, which I loved, but I also knew that meant we'd be near the old deserted deservatory, which quite frankly gave me nightmares.

[40:20] John Ellison Conlee: Bingo, I'm afraid I'm gonna need a little help with something, I said.

[40:26] John Ellison Conlee: Bingo gave my head a little squeeze and let out a chirp.

[40:29] John Ellison Conlee: Bingo was on my side, no questions asked and no answers needed.

[40:34] John Ellison Conlee: I did feel she needed an explanation, though, or perhaps more importantly, I needed to talk about it, out loud, to someone other than myself.

[40:45] John Ellison Conlee: Bingo, we're gonna drive past a couple of places.

[40:49] John Ellison Conlee: One still open and one that's been closed for years.

[40:54] John Ellison Conlee: When I was a kid, every fourth grade class would take a field trip in May toward the end of the school year.

[40:59] John Ellison Conlee: That trip would start at the observatory.

[41:02] John Ellison Conlee: At the observatory, Dr. Meadows, who was a doctor of stars and not people, would let us all look through a huge telescope that poked through the roof.

[41:11] John Ellison Conlee: We could see stars even though it was the daytime and moons and planets, and even Nebula and the Von Ryan belt.

[41:19] John Ellison Conlee: I loved it so much.

[41:22] John Ellison Conlee: Dr. Meadows could see how much, and she gave me extra time at the telescope and let me have a special book about space to take home with me.

[41:30] John Ellison Conlee: I left feeling about as good as I'd ever felt, energized, proud, and happy.

[41:37] John Ellison Conlee: Then we went across the street to the deservatory.

[41:41] John Ellison Conlee: It's now closed.

[41:45] John Ellison Conlee: I needed a moment.

[41:48] John Ellison Conlee: Listen, grown-ups are pretty much always trying to do good things for kids, but sometimes they make mistakes and they don't figure out that something they did to try to help kids is actually sort of harmful.

[42:03] John Ellison Conlee: I took another pause here and pulled the car over to the side of the road.

[42:08] John Ellison Conlee: My eyes had started to fill up with water, and my throat felt like I had a whole peach in it.

[42:13] John Ellison Conlee: Bingo gave another little squeeze, and I took a moment.

[42:17] John Ellison Conlee: Peach went down, the water receded, and I continued.

[42:23] John Ellison Conlee: The deservatory was run by Big Jake and his son Little Jake.

[42:29] John Ellison Conlee: It also had a huge telescope, but all the mirrors were in the opposite position, so that instead of seeing outward into the expanse above, powerful optics allowed us to see inside.

[42:42] John Ellison Conlee: And by inside I mean deep within, into what the mystics and poets might call the soul if you even believe in such things.

[42:51] John Ellison Conlee: Well, Big Jake and Little Jake thought this would be great for kids and would show them what they deserve.

[43:00] John Ellison Conlee: Now, as a grown-up, I know that deep inside me is a well of peace and love.

[43:06] John Ellison Conlee: But until you learn how to connect with that part, it doesn't have a physical form, which means it's mostly just space, or rather, emptiness.

[43:16] John Ellison Conlee: And when I saw that inside myself, that great void, I felt like it meant that that was all that was inside me, and what I deserved.

[43:29] John Ellison Conlee: Nothing.

[43:31] John Ellison Conlee: Big Jake and Little Jake encouraged me to think that.

[43:36] John Ellison Conlee: There was another heavy pause, and then Bingo made a sound like I've never heard her make since.

[43:43] John Ellison Conlee: Only thing I can compare it to was when the mine explosion happened in Crater Town, about six miles away, and scooter, Terry Dupree's old mutt, ran into the mine and found Terry buried in rubble.

[43:57] John Ellison Conlee: Wouldn't leave his side even as the rest of the shaft collapsed around him.

[44:01] John Ellison Conlee: Those howls of loss, of abject misery, and of confusion echoed through the valley for three days, and then stopped forever.

[44:12] John Ellison Conlee: It frosted my bones back then, and poor Bingo's version did the same.

[44:18] John Ellison Conlee: It's okay, girl, I said.

[44:21] John Ellison Conlee: I know what's inside me now, and I know what it's worth.

[44:24] John Ellison Conlee: Took me a while, and there's still a tiny seed of doubt buried deep in there, but I don't feed or water it anymore.

[44:33] John Ellison Conlee: Nor do I try to poison it.

[44:35] John Ellison Conlee: I just let it be.

[44:38] John Ellison Conlee: And someday it'll do the same for me.

[44:42] John Ellison Conlee: I felt water on my face and wiped my eye with the back of my hand, but felt no tears of mine there.

[44:48] John Ellison Conlee: Bingo was weeping.

[44:50] John Ellison Conlee: For me.

[44:52] John Ellison Conlee: I was filled with love and appreciation for old what's his name, oh.

[44:57] John Ellison Conlee: I started up again, and before long we were almost to the old field oak next to the regulation baseball field across from the giant non-regulation baseball field, which was next to Mary McSwain's place.

[45:10] John Ellison Conlee: As we grew closer to the deservatory, I began to hope that we'd find the fuck it store first just so that I wouldn't have to deal with my past.

[45:19] John Ellison Conlee: I think she could feel my fear, because Bingo gave me another squeeze, and I felt a sort of flutter in my chest.

[45:27] John Ellison Conlee: It was like a tiny sparrow that was trapped underneath my breastbones, suddenly broke free and took flight, possibly for the first time.

[45:36] John Ellison Conlee: I stopped the car.

[45:38] John Ellison Conlee: We were right between the two baseball fields now.

[45:41] John Ellison Conlee: One was, as I said, regulation size, with ninety-foot base pads and four oh five to dead center.

[45:48] John Ellison Conlee: The other was not regulation in any way, and that's where we headed now, the gravel crunching under my feet as we approached the gate.

[45:56] John Ellison Conlee: Bingo and I walked through and made our way past the old wooden scoreboard, past the visitors' dugout, and in the on deck circle.

[46:06] John Ellison Conlee: I stopped when we were directly behind home plate.

[46:10] John Ellison Conlee: Were we catchers?

[46:12] John Ellison Conlee: Umpires?

[46:14] John Ellison Conlee: No.

[46:15] John Ellison Conlee: This was our at bat.

[46:18] John Ellison Conlee: Into the box.

[46:19] John Ellison Conlee: I reach up to adjust Bingo.

[46:22] John Ellison Conlee: She's ready.

[46:23] John Ellison Conlee: I look up at the mound, which is nine feet high.

[46:27] John Ellison Conlee: It might only be in my head, but nothing has ever been clearer than Jean Tarpaulin appearing on the mound, ball in hand.

[46:35] John Ellison Conlee: Jean had been two years older than I and was known in town for two things: a slider that broke like it had changed its mind and a personality that was even nastier.

[46:45] John Ellison Conlee: Jean was about my height, but he towered over me from that mound.

[46:50] John Ellison Conlee: He looked down at me, and a cruel, twisting grin appeared on his face.

[46:55] John Ellison Conlee: I smell fear, Joe, he said, never taking his eyes off of me and Bingo.

[47:01] John Ellison Conlee: It's there, Jean.

[47:03] John Ellison Conlee: You're right.

[47:04] John Ellison Conlee: But there's love there too, and I'm ready.

[47:07] John Ellison Conlee: Make your pitch.

[47:10] John Ellison Conlee: Jean's gaze hardened into a sneer, and his light eyes froze into blue ice.

[47:17] John Ellison Conlee: Jean turned to check the imaginary runner at second and began his motion from the stretch.

[47:22] John Ellison Conlee: On this field, the mound was only twenty feet from home, so there was no time for adjustment.

[47:26] John Ellison Conlee: You were on the pitch or you weren't.

[47:29] John Ellison Conlee: Like an avalanche, that white ball tumbled in fast.

[47:32] John Ellison Conlee: Slider, on it, level swing and a crack like summer lightning.

[47:37] John Ellison Conlee: I fly out of the box, tearing down the first baseline, and Bingo hangs on with an impressive tenacity.

[47:43] John Ellison Conlee: The first baseline's only fifty-two feet long, so I'm already circling out a bit so I can cut the bag and head to second.

[47:49] John Ellison Conlee: As I round it, I look up and see my line drive caroming off the wall between center and left field and the two outfielders converging on it.

[47:57] John Ellison Conlee: I put my head down and turn on the jets.

[48:00] John Ellison Conlee: This one's going at least three, so I arc out in preparation for cutting second.

[48:04] John Ellison Conlee: One quick glance as I come around, and I can see that the left fielder's just getting to the ball and his momentum's taking him in the wrong direction.

[48:11] John Ellison Conlee: It's Big Jake, who'll never be able to stop, turn, plant, and make a strong enough throw.

[48:16] John Ellison Conlee: But instead of trying to stop, Big Jake slides to his knees, grabs the ball, and neatly flips it to the approaching center fielder, who I now see as Little Jake.

[48:25] John Ellison Conlee: I'm almost at third, and the time for looking back is over.

[48:29] John Ellison Conlee: I know everything I need to know.

[48:31] John Ellison Conlee: While there's not much to admire about Little Jake, he has an arm like a medieval trebuchet.

[48:37] John Ellison Conlee: Gonna have to dig.

[48:39] John Ellison Conlee: The base path between third and home is the longest on this field.

[48:43] John Ellison Conlee: Some say it's about a quarter of a mile.

[48:45] John Ellison Conlee: Fortunately, Little Jake's throw will have to travel a long distance too.

[48:49] John Ellison Conlee: Feet barely touching the ground beneath me, Bingo holding on like a jockey, lungs burning, a blur of people in the stands, my late mother and father, arms raised and yelling my name.

[49:00] John Ellison Conlee: In the dugout on their feet and yelling are some of my teammates.

[49:03] John Ellison Conlee: Courage, perseverance, empathy, and mouthful of sunflower seeds, integrity.

[49:09] John Ellison Conlee: I can see the catcher in front of me now, mask off and ready to receive the throw.

[49:13] John Ellison Conlee: It's doubt, and he's blocking the plate as he is wont to do.

[49:17] John Ellison Conlee: And then I'm off my feet and hanging in the air, a lung emptying cry leaping out of my throat as though it's trying to beat me to the bag, and then my eyes involuntarily close as I hit the ground.

[49:28] John Ellison Conlee: Dust, sweat.

[49:30] John Ellison Conlee: I feel Bingo roll forward off my head and my mouth fills with dirt.

[49:34] John Ellison Conlee: I feel the punch in the gut that is the glove of doubt, but not until after each ridge in my fingerprint grazes across the plate.

[49:44] John Ellison Conlee: I made it.

[49:46] John Ellison Conlee: Home.

[49:49] John Ellison Conlee: Then silence.

[49:51] John Ellison Conlee: Then peace.

[49:53] John Ellison Conlee: The settling dust filters the morning sun for a moment.

[49:57] John Ellison Conlee: I reach over and pick up Bingo, and we're all alone.

[50:02] John Ellison Conlee: We made it together.

[50:04] John Ellison Conlee: We're home.

[50:07] John Ellison Conlee: I stand up and shake out my wrist, it'll be fine.

[50:11] John Ellison Conlee: Brush some dust off of my shirt, and place Bingo back on my head.

[50:17] John Ellison Conlee: It's a crazy field, isn't it?

[50:20] John Ellison Conlee: says a voice behind me.

[50:21] John Ellison Conlee: Still, you ran those paths pretty well.

[50:25] John Ellison Conlee: I turn and see a fellow standing on a ladder next to a panel truck.

[50:29] John Ellison Conlee: He's hanging a banner that says, Fuck it.

[50:33] John Ellison Conlee: Just opening up, he says.

[50:36] John Ellison Conlee: Can I help you with anything?

[50:39] John Ellison Conlee: Sir, I say, walking towards him, I appreciate what you're doing.

[50:45] John Ellison Conlee: But I think I have everything I need.

[50:49] John Ellison Conlee: Hey, Bingo.

[50:51] John Ellison Conlee: Let's head home, I say.

[50:54] John Ellison Conlee: And we get back in the car, spray a little more gravel, and do just that.

[51:04] John Ellison Conlee: So that was Cup of Joe by John Ellison Conlee.

[51:08] Susan Blackwell: This is the first time that story is going out into the world.

[51:13] Laura Camien: And that's a piece of the process that, as you said, has eluded you a little bit in your original work.

[51:19] Susan Blackwell: How does it feel, John, to, as we would say, share the light of this project in the world?

[51:26] John Ellison Conlee: You know, I don't know.

[51:27] John Ellison Conlee: I feel like, as we're recording this, it feels a little abstract, but I'm looking forward to the idea of people hearing it and responding to it, and hopefully some people enjoying it.

[51:42] John Ellison Conlee: You know, it's a strange thing.

[51:46] John Ellison Conlee: I, you know, I'm sure the people at home realize this, but we didn't just hear it.

[51:54] John Ellison Conlee: And so we recorded it.

[51:56] John Ellison Conlee: We've pre-recorded it.

[51:58] Susan Blackwell: So it—

[51:58] John Ellison Conlee: Why are you busting all the show business magic?

[52:02] Susan Blackwell: Really?

[52:02] John Ellison Conlee: You know, I dreambusters to the magic of editing.

[52:10] Susan Blackwell: You know, one thing I find satisfying about it is I feel like you have lent your voice to so many other authors' stories on This American Life, things like that.

[52:21] Susan Blackwell: And I just find it supremely satisfying writing to begin with, but then to that you are providing yourself an opportunity to share your own work.

[52:33] John Ellison Conlee: Well, I hope I will get the opportunity to do more of that.

[52:38] John Ellison Conlee: You know, I enjoy the writing of it, and I enjoy also enjoy the reading of it.

[52:43] Susan Blackwell: Love it.

[52:44] Susan Blackwell: Is there anything else you can tell us about the deservatory and where that idea came from?

[52:50] Laura Camien: I'm so struck by it.

[52:52] Laura Camien: I mean, there's so many things we could point out in that story, but the deservatory, come on.

[52:52] John Ellison Conlee: The deservatory.

[52:58] John Ellison Conlee: You know, I didn't realize when I started writing it that it was gonna be a sort of like he has to deal with childhood demons kind of thing. But as that developed, I was sort of looking for what is, you know, and maybe this is driven as a parent, you know, we have a six-year-old, of looking for those things that are sort of well-intentioned destruction, which we all, I have no doubt we're absolutely doing. And you know, they were absolutely done to us, and every generation has that. And I just was thinking about what this person would have to deal with. And I didn't want to make it anything real. I didn't want it to be, you know, a sort of something that we would understand in the natural, yeah, realistic world that we have, but I wanted it also to be clearly one of those like just well semi well-intentioned traumatic things for a child that they just can't understand.

Yeah, you know, that thing where it's like you just got put in your place for no reason, and given an artificial narrative that you're gonna spend the rest of your life trying to overcome, and how a devastating impact that can have. But also I just needed it to be abstract, I needed it to not be, you know, reality-based in some way. So I love this story so much, and I have detailed what specifically about the story I love, but I'm just hearkening back to you shared the story in our creativity group. And I remember Zachary Quinto's response so clearly when he was like, I think you did us dirty by having John go first when you shared that story.

[55:09] Laura Camien: That's how we do, we do things dirty. I feel like you have a sort of an understated personal presentation to begin with. And then we all have feelings about our own work, about uncertainty about how it might land, etc. And just to watch in real time people's minds being blown. It was that, that was really special, very satisfying.

[55:32] John Ellison Conlee: Well, that was always in why I intentionally would share the stories reading from a different device than the Zoom meeting of our gathering was. So I could not see anyone else's faces.

[55:47] Laura Camien: Oh yeah, you should go back and watch that tape. It's really, it's really fun.

[55:52] Susan Blackwell: John, is there a creative thing that you know you absolutely need to do before you're done?

[55:59] John Ellison Conlee: I would like to create something that I can then have a bunch of my friends perform in. I mean, I think that would be getting to work with everybody in something that I have made would be pretty spectacular.

[56:13] Susan Blackwell: Love that answer. Love it. I think that's a great idea. Here's a question that we ask all of our guests, and you're not getting out of this one, buddy. You work really hard. What is it all for?

[56:27] John Ellison Conlee: I feel like it changes depending on the moment and the day and the week. The thing that is consistent, and you know, sometimes it's fame and fortune, and sometimes it's all these other things, but I really just would like to create something that can be shared that just entertains a lot of people, just and not just in a light way, but makes them laugh, but also makes them feel things and you know, have a, it sounds ridiculous, but have a greater connection to all the vagaries of humanity just from experiencing something unusual that is moving and you can't necessarily put your finger on why. I think those are the experiences that I have really loved and benefited from as an audience member. And I would just like to contribute some of that to the world too.

[57:33] Laura Camien: I think you're doing it. I think you're doing it. Describing exactly what you're doing. So well done. But also if a bunch of money came in, that'd be okay too.

[57:41] John Ellison Conlee: Oh, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's our jam. We want to make work that we love with people that we love. We want it to be sustainable, and we want to make a lot of money doing it.

[57:50] Susan Blackwell: That's it. Yeah. Come on. Right?

[57:52] John Ellison Conlee: Yeah.

[57:54] Susan Blackwell: Any discoveries that you've made about yourself or your creativity during this time?

[57:58] John Ellison Conlee: I think really sort of tracking the progress and having an idea that I'm in a process where I'm actually completing things has told me a few things. And one of them is that I don't require a structure in the way that I thought that I might, though I think it will be helpful the more structure I can build in. The other is that there will always be another idea. So if I get started and get stuck and get frustrated, as long as I keep going, there will, there's just never a shortage of ideas. There are sometimes bad ones, and sometimes I have to, you know, cut a prune an idea right off of a story and go back to that place and where it branched off and start from that place again. But there are always good ideas. It's just a matter of pairing through to get to those. And I don't feel like I always succeed, and sometimes I go with the wrong ones, but there's no shortage of ideas, I don't feel at this point.

[59:16] Laura Camien: We see that in you, yeah. I mean, you are like a spark generating machine. You really are pretty phenomenal to watch. I mean, we have that belief system about the spark file overall, just you know, in the world, there are plenty of ideas, and we're not precious about like, oh, this is my one idea, and if I lose it, I'll never, you know, do anything great. But rather that ideas and sparks of inspiration exist everywhere and can be found if you're looking for them. But you are like the human embodiment of that. Like just spending time with your mind is like, and there's a spark and there's a spark and there's a spark.

[59:55] John Ellison Conlee: Agreed. I aspire to do good things with some of them.

[1:00:01] Laura Camien: One thing that I just wanted to share, which this is from the mind of John Ellison Conlee that I just loved. Laura and I were listening to the podcast Sunday Pancakes, created, produced, and hosted by Creativity Group Member Celia Keenan-Bolger, also known as your wife. And Celia recounted a conversation that she had with you, and you said something that really did knock my butt off, which is reflecting on this time that we've been living through. We have this newfound clarity that we're trying to build lives, not just careers. And I thought it was in alignment with what we know you to be doing with your creative work in the time that we have been coaching with you. But also I was just like, oh my God, I think that's so true for so many of us during this time. And I just randomized Spark file and wrote it down. We have this newfound clarity that we're trying to build lives, not just careers. So that was a aha that you had that jumped over onto my spark file.

[1:01:05] John Ellison Conlee: I love that. It's a good reminder for everyone. If you find yourself in a situation where you have the opportunity to reset and, you know, reconsider how you want to build this life of yours, that's a pretty big gift.

[1:01:20] John Ellison Conlee: Yeah, this, you know, so many, so many horrible, difficult things to deal with during this time. But I really do hope that one of the things that sticks with everybody is a larger sense of the importance of living a sustainable life and not just going headlong into pursuit of something in a kind of like, well, I have to put out that fire, and now I have to put out that fire, and I gotta get that thing done, and I gotta get that without, you know, also paying attention to is this, you know, am I happy doing this? Can I continue to do this? Am I burning myself out doing this?

[1:02:03] Susan Blackwell: That's right, you know, they meant all those things. Do I enjoy doing this?

[1:02:07] John Ellison Conlee: Yeah, yeah, all of it.

[1:02:08] Susan Blackwell: Yeah, I love that. All right, finally, John. Who or what is sparking you these days?

[1:02:16] John Ellison Conlee: We just started watching White Lotus.

[1:02:21] Laura Camien: How is that?

[1:02:23] John Ellison Conlee: You know, we're just a couple of episodes in, but I continue to be so fascinated with Mike White's work. He just loves that area of flawed people trying to do the right thing and it going wrong and creating this intensely awkward situation that is so much a part of being alive. And every time I watch something of his, and you know, I've watched I think most of the stuff that he's done at this point, I find it inspirational. And the way that some things that I really enjoy just seem like, oh, I'm watching that, and that's fun. But this always feels like, ooh, he's just getting into a new territory that makes me feel laugh and also feel uncomfortable, and it's good.

[1:03:34] Susan Blackwell: Thanks for that hot spark. And thank you so much for joining us for this time. John Ellison Conlee, we love you, and we love your work so much.

[1:03:47] John Ellison Conlee: Well, I feel so lucky to be getting to work with the two of you and spend time with the two of you virtually and all of that.

[1:03:58] Susan Blackwell: I mean, we're the best. I mean, come on.

[1:04:02] Laura Camien: Yeah, that's the thesis. If there's a single takeaway from this podcast, if there's a takeaway from this, it's that you two are the best.

[1:04:10] Susan Blackwell: We're the fucking best.

[1:04:11] John Ellison Conlee: There you go.

[1:04:12] Susan Blackwell: And on that note, I guess that's it. This episode of The Spark File was made on the lands of the Lenape and Seminole people, and we hope that it put another bunch of sparks in your file.

[1:04:26] Laura Camien: Listen to us. If there is a spark you'd like us to explore, or if you've taken a spark and fanned it into a creative flame and you'd like to share that. Did you just hear John Ellison Conlee for the love of Pete? Email us at thesparkfile@gmail.com or submit it through our website, thesparkfile.com. We will even happily take your feedback. But you know the price of admission. First, you have to share a creative risk that you have taken recently.

[1:04:54] Susan Blackwell: And be sure to subscribe to this podcast wherever you get your podcasts, you can subscribe, you can rate, you can five-star review it. If you like this podcast, we hope you'll share it with people that you love. And if you didn't like it, I don't know. John, what do you say to your critics?

[1:05:11] John Ellison Conlee: Keep it to yourself.

[1:05:12] Susan Blackwell: Keep it to yourself.

[1:05:13] John Ellison Conlee: Keep it to yourself.

[1:05:15] Susan Blackwell: If something tickles your fancy and gets your creative juices flowing, we're writing you a forever permission slip to make that thing that's been knocking at your door. It's your turn to take a spark and fan it into a flame.

[1:05:30] John Ellison Conlee: You know the drill. You gotta take it and make it.

[1:05:41] John Ellison Conlee: When I bump into something that inspires me, I dump it in the spark file.

[1:05:49] John Ellison Conlee: Spark could be something that I wanna pick or how I wanna be. I'll pump it in the spark file.

[1:05:59] John Ellison Conlee: Sparfies. I jump into my spark file.

[1:06:04] John Ellison Conlee: Spark. Let's open up the spark file.