This transcript was automatically generated and might contain errors.

[0:00] Susan Blackwell: This is part one of our conversation with Julianne Moore and Bart Freundlich.

[0:03] Laura Camien: In it, we talk about their movie After the Wedding.

[0:06] Susan Blackwell: We use some swear words.

[0:07] Laura Camien: We may even talk about some adult themes.

[0:09] Susan Blackwell: Please use your discretion.

[0:15] Laura Camien: When I bump into something that inspires me, I jump in my spark file.

[0:24] Susan Blackwell: Spark file to be something that I wanna make or how I wanna be.

[0:29] Laura Camien: I pump it in my spark file.

[0:29] Susan Blackwell: Spark file.

[0:34] Laura Camien: I jump into my spark slide.

[0:38] Susan Blackwell: Let's open up the spark file.

[0:43] Laura Camien: Welcome to the Spark File, your one stop lunchable for creative inspiration. I'm Laura Camien.

[0:47] Susan Blackwell: I'm Susan Blackwell. If you're joining us for the first time, welcome.

[0:50] Laura Camien: You may be asking yourself, what exactly is a spark file? Where do I get one? What do I file in it?

[0:54] Susan Blackwell: These are good questions, and we've got answers.

[0:57] Laura Camien: A spark file is a place where you consistently collect all your inspirations and fascinations.

[1:03] Susan Blackwell: And if you're like us and you're making stuff all the time, you know that sometimes the wellspring of inspiration can run a little dry.

[1:10] Laura Camien: We're here to refill it. We're on the lookout for fresh ideas, images, and inspiration that spark our creativity and pique our curiosity, things that inspire us to get up off of our asses and make things like this podcast.

[1:24] Susan Blackwell: Or a feature film that's a twisty turny emotional thriller. Or a complex depiction of a woman whose world is changed dramatically. Or a children's book series about growing up a gingy freckle face. Or a book of awesome and sometimes nawsome photos of your wife falling asleep on the couch.

[1:42] Laura Camien: On today's makersode, we're gonna talk with some folks who truly spark us. And those folks are Julianne Moore and Bart Freundlich.

[1:50] Susan Blackwell: Like Bart Julie, welcome to the Spark File.

[1:54] Julianne Moore: Oh, thanks for having us.

[1:55] Bart Freundlich: Thank you for having us.

[1:57] Susan Blackwell: Always that intro is a tight 17 minutes.

[2:01] Laura Camien: That's right, but we get there. We go there.

[2:03] Susan Blackwell: Before we start, the Spark File Price of Admission, real quick, both of you have to tell us a creative risk you've recently taken, something that scared you, something that made you nervous, something that required bravery, or something that wasn't perfect, but it was progress. What you got for me?

[2:18] Bart Freundlich: I recently, we like to cook bronzino. And um, I like where this is going already. I think we've got the title of this episode. And I recently decided after cooking a perfect bronzino the next time to add some shallots with it with a white wine and a butter sauce. And you know what? It was a big creative risk and it was a big mistake. And it didn't, it didn't have for dinner that night.

[2:45] Julianne Moore: Well, we had bronzino. The sauce scraped off the bronzino.

[2:48] Bart Freundlich: It sounds so promising.

[2:51] Julianne Moore: It sounds like I got greedy, you know. I felt like I...

[2:53] Bart Freundlich: You flew too close to the sun.

[2:56] Julianne Moore: Yes, it sort of speaks to my lack of trust that, you know, the fish is enough, as they say.

[3:05] Susan Blackwell: Who says that, Bart?

[3:07] Bart Freundlich: Who was the first to tell you it wasn't perfect?

[3:10] Julianne Moore: Um, I actually was the one who told me. What he said was watching.

[3:17] Bart Freundlich: No, but it was just too... the fish was enough.

[3:20] Julianne Moore: And I felt like I wanted to be recognized more as the person responsible for it being delicious.

[3:27] Susan Blackwell: Can you tell us when you had done it previously, and it was successful? How you did it?

[3:34] Julianne Moore: Um, no.

[3:36] Bart Freundlich: Wow. Chef's secret.

[3:38] Julianne Moore: What a dick.

[3:41] Bart Freundlich: I don't ever trust that the fish is enough.

[3:43] Julianne Moore: No, I learned from... I learned this. It was very simple. We learned it from our friend Nick Chevloff, who um is the father of our daughter's best friend.

[3:53] Bart Freundlich: Okay.

[3:54] Julianne Moore: And he just takes the whole bronzino and salts it.

[3:58] Bart Freundlich: All of it?

[3:58] Julianne Moore: The whole thing. No, no, we take the head off. It's the skin's on.

[4:01] Bart Freundlich: Okay.

[4:02] Julianne Moore: And salt it and heavily, heavily salt it, and then put it on the grill at a very high temperature and let it, let it burn with that salt on it.

[4:13] Bart Freundlich: Yeah, yeah.

[4:14] Julianne Moore: And that's plenty. That's all you need.

[4:15] Susan Blackwell: It sounds delicious.

[4:16] Bart Freundlich: Yeah, but it was too simple.

[4:18] Julianne Moore: That which speaks to many of my problems.

[4:22] Laura Camien: We'll get to those. What do you got first, Julie?

[4:25] Julianne Moore: Um, okay. Um, I didn't learn how to swim until I was 26. So um, I learned how to swim, but I'm still not a great swimmer. But I'm an okay swimmer. I'm not afraid of swimming anymore. But I'm going to be doing a job where I found out that I'm gonna be in water a lot, and I might, and the director mentioned to me very casually that I might have to dive into the water, and I really don't dive.

[4:48] Bart Freundlich: That's intense.

[4:49] Julianne Moore: Yeah. And so, so I've been practicing on my own and I'm making progress. It's not great though.

[4:58] Laura Camien: You are practicing diving though.

[5:00] Julianne Moore: Oh, head first, head first, I mean right into the tub. It's a shallow dive. Literally, just a little baby dive.

[5:09] Susan Blackwell: Do you have like a... can Bart help? Are you a good diver, Bart?

[5:13] Bart Freundlich: Do you have any help?

[5:14] Julianne Moore: But I kept trying to do it when he was running down Ray White's neck. I didn't want to have a whole lot of instruction. I just wanted to get over my fear.

[5:22] Laura Camien: Yeah. How's it going?

[5:23] Julianne Moore: It's going, like I said, it's okay. I'm making progress. There's something about that that is like physically viscerally really scary.

[5:30] Julianne Moore: I hate it. I hate it. I hate it.

[5:32] Laura Camien: Can you say what the thing is gonna be where you have to dive or be in the water?

[5:36] Julianne Moore: It's this apple show that I'm gonna do called Lisey's Story, and I think there's gonna be a lot of water in it, but I don't know exactly in what capacity quite yet. I just heard there's a lot of water.

[5:43] Bart Freundlich: It's literally like the words you use for the metaphor. You dive in head first.

[5:49] Julianne Moore: Yeah, like there we go, spot on.

[5:51] Bart Freundlich: Which is terrible.

[5:52] Julianne Moore: All of those so on the nose.

[5:54] Susan Blackwell: This is fish is enough. I will tell you the very same best friend, our daughter's best friend. I would talk to her about it, and she said, Oh, I love that. I love that how you just like tuck your head under your hands like that. And nobody's ever said that to me. And so when I was practicing by myself, I did it and it really helped to put your head under your hands.

[6:13] Laura Camien: Was there a moment when you had your arms extended and you had your head tucked and you were just stood there for a long time and were like, I don't want to do it?

[6:23] Julianne Moore: Well, yes, here's the thing. Because I have had other summers where I've tried to learn to dive, and Bart has been there with me many of those summers when I stood on the side of the pool. And I'm like, I don't want to, I don't want to, and he's like, just do it, just do it. But because I was alone and because I know that I have to for this job, I was able to like do it like 10 times in a row until my thighs hurt from smacking the water.

[6:46] Bart Freundlich: Sounds great.

[6:47] Julianne Moore: A sign you might not be doing it right.

[6:50] Bart Freundlich: But it's progress.

[6:52] Julianne Moore: But it's progress.

[6:54] Laura Camien: Which means you are now officially admitted into the Spark.

[6:57] Julianne Moore: Wow, I feel like we need a sound effect there where it goes and pyro, pyro.

[7:04] Laura Camien: Now you're in. Um, for people who don't know you, we all know you do a lot of things, but curious how you personally identify creatively. What speaks to you most when you have to, like if somebody says, well, I don't, I'm I grew up under a rock. What do you do? How do you answer?

[7:23] Julianne Moore: You want should you go first?

[7:25] Bart Freundlich: You.

[7:25] Julianne Moore: Okay. I'd just say I'm an actor.

[7:28] Bart Freundlich: Yeah.

[7:28] Julianne Moore: Yeah. That's it.

[7:29] Bart Freundlich: That's great.

[7:29] Julianne Moore: That's about it.

[7:30] Bart Freundlich: That's great.

[7:30] Julianne Moore: Yeah, full stop.

[7:32] Bart Freundlich: Right.

[7:32] Julianne Moore: Yeah.

[7:33] Bart Freundlich: I th I say I alternate. If it was like if it's the Uber driver, I say that I'm a writer.

[7:44] Julianne Moore: And um...

[7:46] Bart Freundlich: He says, Well, what kind of stuff do you write? And I say poetry.

[7:48] Julianne Moore: Copy.

[7:49] Bart Freundlich: I write copy.

[7:51] Julianne Moore: Um, I say I'm a filmmaker, usually.

[7:55] Bart Freundlich: Yeah, yeah.

[7:55] Julianne Moore: Um, that's a good umbrella.

[7:57] Bart Freundlich: That's not true as much as I think that the most I'm a writer and director.

[8:03] Julianne Moore: Yeah.

[8:04] Bart Freundlich: Probably is the most true way to say it.

[8:07] Julianne Moore: Why would you say filmmaker doesn't feel as...

[8:07] Bart Freundlich: Because I think that I, I think that ultimately I feel like I write things that aren't films that are, um, it's not how I make my living, but it's, it's, I feel like it's deeper than just writing movies, or it's, it's more expansive than just writing movies. So I feel like it's, it's kind of not exactly accurate saying I'm a filmmaker.

[8:33] Julianne Moore: And it also sounds slightly pretentious.

[8:36] Bart Freundlich: That's how I think of you.

[8:37] Julianne Moore: Yeah, thank you.

[8:38] Bart Freundlich: So it all kind of lines up.

[8:40] Julianne Moore: Um, Bartholomew Freundlich.

[8:42] Bart Freundlich: What is your, what's your middle name?

[8:44] Julianne Moore: Middleton.

[8:45] Bart Freundlich: Are you fucking kidding me?

[8:47] Julianne Moore: Wow.

[8:47] Bart Freundlich: Can you believe it?

[8:49] Julianne Moore: What a big name.

[8:50] Bart Freundlich: That is a big name to live up to.

[8:52] Julianne Moore: Good lord.

[8:54] Bart Freundlich: True.

[8:54] Julianne Moore: Bartholomew Middleton Freundlich.

[8:58] Bart Freundlich: 30, 30 letters.

[9:00] Julianne Moore: Good job.

[9:01] Bart Freundlich: Oh God, when you had to fill out those tests where you fill in the dots with your...

[9:01] Julianne Moore: I'll be honest, I didn't know how to spell my entire name until I was in sixth grade.

[9:10] Bart Freundlich: Until I was 36.

[9:14] Julianne Moore: I don't blame you.

[9:16] Bart Freundlich: It's a step.

[9:16] Julianne Moore: It's a regal, it's a noble name.

[9:19] Bart Freundlich: Um, I think that you are my favorite director that I've worked with.

[9:25] Julianne Moore: Thank you, sir.

[9:26] Bart Freundlich: Can you tell me why I feel that way?

[9:29] Julianne Moore: Oh can you guess?

[9:32] Bart Freundlich: Can you articulate it for me?

[9:35] Julianne Moore: Collaborative?

[9:36] Bart Freundlich: Is it have to do with the bronzino?

[9:38] Julianne Moore: Yeah, it's about the fish.

[9:39] Bart Freundlich: You're getting warmer.

[9:40] Julianne Moore: The fish is collaborative is good.

[9:43] Bart Freundlich: Um, I feel like you engage with people in a way that is so um humane and authentic.

[9:57] Julianne Moore: Authentic.

[9:58] Bart Freundlich: I feel like you see people, all people, not just the fanciest people in the room. And you create a set that is unusual in my estimation.

[10:12] Julianne Moore: And I think it's true.

[10:16] Bart Freundlich: It's true.

[10:17] Julianne Moore: Oh, and you genuinely seem to be enjoying your work.

[10:20] Bart Freundlich: That is probably one of the greatest distinctions. I feel like so many film directors seem so harried and so in overwhelm. And you genuinely seem to be enjoying your work. And I think it might be because you meditate.

[10:34] Bart Freundlich: Is that do you...

[10:36] Julianne Moore: I do meditate?

[10:36] Bart Freundlich: Yeah, I wonder, I was gonna ask you, do you think that that being kind and inclusive and enjoying things has anything to do with um making a good final product?

[10:50] Julianne Moore: Yes.

[10:51] Bart Freundlich: Because now other people may feel differently. Uh, but my little tender heart feels safer when the set feels like that. And when the set feels like competitive is not the right word, but c I get this word messed up sometimes.

[11:09] Julianne Moore: Classist.

[11:11] Bart Freundlich: Hierarchical.

[11:14] Julianne Moore: There you go. There's that vocabulary I love.

[11:17] Bart Freundlich: Um, then I get just me. Sometimes I get like really um just scared.

[11:24] Julianne Moore: Yeah.

[11:24] Bart Freundlich: I just can't just get scared.

[11:26] Julianne Moore: I understand that. I mean that's my hope is that I sort of feel like you hire um, you hire the right people. You know, you hire people who you think you're going to make um the story deeper, more expansive, do more than you could do yourself, and then you create the environment where they could be comfortable enough to try things and take risks.

[11:49] Bart Freundlich: Um, I'm not sure what I think about I don't I think that it I I think that it's more important to me to have a good experience um throughout my life, like over the whole course of my life than it is to make great art. But I want them to happen together. But I also think that there are are I ask in part because there's so many directors who notoriously um are sort of dictatorial or uh is that the word?

[12:17] Julianne Moore: Yeah, yeah. We're all looking to Julie for vocabulary words.

[12:21] Julianne Moore: But bring an SAT, you know, or who's my name for you now. Or who bring up, you know, that is that it's I guess maybe it's partly like being a teacher or a parent, not that a director does that exactly but where you some people you know use different motivational techniques or they're so they're they have their eyes so on the prize that everyone wants to fall in line and it really doesn't matter what kind of experience you're having. In other words sometimes if you actually are staying more focused on the story like I know people who don't want other people's cell phones on sets because they want everyone to be serving the story and not forget that and not think oh when can I go to craft service or this is what's happening at the end of the day. And as it seems a little narcissistic but also sometimes I wonder if that actually promotes a better product. Do you I don't know I don't think I've done enough film to have an answer to that.

[13:14] Bart Freundlich: I have to say I I I don't I I I think when when an atmosphere is is is that strict when you have I I love what you said about being a parent or a teacher because the other thing that I think that a director does is hold the space for people to do their work.

[13:28] Julianne Moore: Yes.

[13:29] Bart Freundlich: That's their job. And if they can't hold you know they're holding the space for their own film. You know they really are um but in in doing that they have to let everybody else do their work too. And it doesn't have to be there doesn't have to be anything um cruel um you know to have that happen. You know you you can't have parameters. I think there are plenty of parameters but but honestly as long as people feel that there's some I think we like to feel there's somebody who's setting a tone and is kind of guiding you through it. But that idea that they're holding space for you to do that creative work is really important and that they value you.

[14:04] Julianne Moore: You know, I was when talking about hierarchical, I'll never forget being on a movie, one of my first movies and I had I did a scene um with the leading lady, and I was just playing you know a small part opposite her, and they said, you know, hey boss, you want to turn around and cover her, meaning me. And he said, uh, no, I'm never gonna use it. And I was devastated. And I think about how much I can't remember in my life, and there's a lot that I can't remember. But I remember that. I remember that completely.

[14:31] Bart Freundlich: Yeah.

[14:32] Julianne Moore: And it was so it was so unnecessary.

[14:36] Bart Freundlich: Yeah.

[14:36] Julianne Moore: And I have, of course, said another thing, watch directors cover people, even though they know that even though that maybe they have edited, maybe they won't use that, but they want to have the coverage. They also know that in order to make everybody feel part of the process, you have to give everybody time. Here's a sweet middle ground. There was a moment in when we were making after the wedding when you said to me, Susan, we're not going to cover that line that's in the script, some line I had, something small. We're not going to cover it because I don't think I'm going to use it in the editing room. And so it was this very communicative, very humane sort of, you still are you're still getting the work done. You're still being efficient with your time, and still considering that these are real live human beings, not just Muppets that are, I don't know.

[15:23] Julianne Moore: And then you didn't make up your own narrative about what does that mean? For that comment, you're like, Well, what does that mean? You're never gonna use oh, but I also felt like through the whole thing, and I've I love this movie. We saw this movie. My husband and I saw the movie the other night. My husband I'm nodding, I really could not stop. But I also saw the movie, yeah. Could not stop talking about it.

[15:46] Bart Freundlich: Was it what you thought it would be?

[15:49] Julianne Moore: I think so. I was so proud to be a part of it, and I felt so considered throughout that creative process, and then I saw the movie and I was like, and I mean this in the best possible way, but I was like, I'm essentially just a piece, one small piece of the fabric of this bare, very big movie. And to me, I felt so considered and I felt very seen. And it I felt like I had was an important player. And then I was like, I I'm just part of the fabric of this thing, but I think it's a testament to you two.

[16:21] Bart Freundlich: But you are you are an essential part of the film. That's the other thing, too. This is what I like about our process in filmmaking or or in acting or whatever, is that there are there we we we it's we're so interdependent, not codependent, but we're interdependent. We can't, you can't do something. You can't, you can't do you know, you can't, we can't, I can't have a scene, you know. If you and I have a scene together and you're not you're not present, you're not meeting me, that I can't succeed in that scene. So you're you're you're bringing everything that you're bringing to that allows that scene to succeed. So it's it's um everybody has has the um has the responsibility and has the um, I don't know.

It's just it's it's it's one of the things that's exciting about being an actor, I think, or in this kind of creative thing where we're people with lots of experience, people with little experience, people who are very, very young, like those little boys, you know, people who are maybe elderly, like you it's it's very it feels like life and that everybody participates equally. They have to, otherwise it fails.

[17:27] Julianne Moore: So if you have somebody come in for one scene, they have two lines and and they can't pull it off successfully, that scene dies. Or even all those extras at the wedding, you know, where we would constantly. That's why I would constantly be saying, This is what's happening right now. You know, this is how this day is gonna go. Um, some of you are, you know, from the groom's side, some are from the bride's side. This is how we're gonna shoot this, because you can see that investment on their faces. I find from where I my vantage point, and I think it's gonna be different for you, Julie, because you have a different you know, you have a different vantage point. I feel like that thoughtful communication is rare.

[18:03] Bart Freundlich: Oh, I agree. No, no, I I I've seen and I'll also know that you know I've participated in films, you know, for a long time and in different places.

[18:11] Julianne Moore: Yeah, of course.

[18:12] Bart Freundlich: You know, so I there were times, like I said, when somebody said, I'm not, you know, I'm not gonna cover her, I'm never gonna use it. And there have been times where I've been uh higher up in the hierarchy where I've been treated differently than others, you know. So you you do see it, it happens. It it it's and I do think that Bart is very, very rare in the tone that he sets. But it's so fun to be to talk about all this stuff on the set and for uh for the three of us when we were talking about the relationship between your two characters and the stuff that we'll never be able to communicate on film.

[18:43] Julianne Moore: Yeah.

[18:44] Bart Freundlich: Um, and then all these moments like that. I thought about in the editing room, um, because we didn't get to communicate them, and I would feel guilty about it in part, but then realize that it serves the bigger not only does it serve that, but also it served our lives because we got to talk creatively about it and make up, you know, uh build this story, even if it didn't all get shown on screen, like the moment where after after Julie has has yelled at your character.

[19:11] Julianne Moore: Yeah, the next moment we talked about that really being an apology, what where she just says, Can you tell them I'm gonna be 15 minutes late?

[19:19] Bart Freundlich: Right. But I didn't get to I couldn't really cover each of you in singles. So we just had to deal with the fact that that was there for the taking if you wanted to pay attention to it, but there was more, there was a there was a full story behind the whole thing. And even for me, knowing that her character would have potentially shared this information with your character.

[19:41] Julianne Moore: Yeah, it's very secret.

[19:43] Bart Freundlich: You'd be the only one. It informed everything. And I see it in in your performance when you uh when you say to her Grace is here at at the door, what there's just so much there.

[19:54] Julianne Moore: You're so sweet. It I I just I I like both of you very much. This has been the Spark File podcast. Julie, you're also very talented.

[20:03] Bart Freundlich: You're pretty good.

[20:04] Julianne Moore: But Susan's moments in that film.

[20:07] Bart Freundlich: I know.

[20:07] Julianne Moore: I want to say, just as an outsider, like I heard some stories about the process from uh Susan, all very positive, but intentionally didn't know a lot going into the film because I like to not know.

[20:18] Bart Freundlich: So I I was like, Don't tell me the story, don't tell me those types of details.

[20:23] Julianne Moore: And so I was not prepared for the emotion that that it brought out in me.

[20:30] Bart Freundlich: I lost my mom about five years ago.

[20:32] Julianne Moore: So sorry.

[20:34] Bart Freundlich: Thanks. But when like just that um the things that I didn't get to say.

[20:40] Julianne Moore: Oh my god.

[20:41] Bart Freundlich: That was so effective and so beautiful. And I remember calling you when I left the theater and was like, Wow, let me put myself together because I I just I wasn't prepared. I enjoyed the whole story.

[20:55] Julianne Moore: I saw those relationships that you're talking about, and I didn't need, you know, to know more about them. They were full, they were rich, and it had the impact on a, you know, just uh outside observer.

[21:10] Bart Freundlich: Here's the hard thing about being in a movie with Julianne Moore.

[21:14] Bart Freundlich: Here's the fucking hard thing about it. Oh, you're a delightful person. You're such a good actor. There's a scene in the movie where uh Julie is not kind to me.

[21:26] Julianne Moore: And also she's her character's drunk.

[21:28] Bart Freundlich: Yeah. And I you're so good that I was just like, I'm supposed to be saying lines and hitting marks. And I was like, Julianne Moore is so good. In my mind, that's what that's my subtext. You guys look how good Julianne Moore is.

[21:46] Julianne Moore: It's distracting.

[21:58] Bart Freundlich: You're phenomenal. We all sort of feel that way. There's another actor who said to me once, I think who worked with Julian Magnolia, who who he came up to, I was on the set one day, and he came up, like sort of looked dumbstruck, and he was like, I I he's like, we we read through the scene, and then then the camera rolled, and and then this heat, this heat was coming off her this heat, and it was like I just I couldn't help but be my character because she was just that it was it was exciting and he was an experienced actor.

[22:29] Julianne Moore: It's so good.

[22:30] Bart Freundlich: It's at some point we don't have to do it now, and you you probably don't ever want to do it, but I would I would love to just ask you like 10 questions about how to be a good actor.

[22:43] Julianne Moore: That's a great idea.

[22:44] Bart Freundlich: It's so funny. You know, that's our other podcast.

[22:47] Julianne Moore: You're a great actor like that.

[22:49] Bart Freundlich: No, such a goddamn mouth. No, I think everybody, I think, I think everybody can act.

[22:55] Julianne Moore: You're sweet.

[22:56] Bart Freundlich: Here's the thing. You also have like this crazy technical acumen about like, oh, you just have I just watched it over and over. Your technical skills are batshit crazy.

[23:09] Julianne Moore: That's just practice.

[23:10] Bart Freundlich: That's practice. I think you're also really quick, though. I think you have a quick mind, and I think you've absorbed things. I think you've absorbed things really quickly, and you're a really quick study.

[23:20] Julianne Moore: Right.

[23:20] Bart Freundlich: And I can just see how those early roles that you did, I think you picked up shit really fast.

[23:25] Julianne Moore: Yeah.

[23:26] Bart Freundlich: I mean, through the middle of that, like you can totally hit marks and you can totally like, hey, I got to dialect. And then you can act. It makes me want to just punch you right in the cruise. But I think that's what makes for me. That's what makes film acting exciting. I think that when um you can juggle a lot of shit. Because you have to have that's I always talk about you know it being a kind of a uh acting as a sort of a hypnosis because it's not really happening, right? We all know that it's not true.

[23:52] Julianne Moore: It's so acting.

[23:53] Bart Freundlich: Yeah, so when people say like I really felt it, well, no, it's not really happening to you, but you can really you can make yourself believe that it's really happening to you, but you have to know also that you are making yourself believe it because you have to know what's happening technically, right? And you just like you can monitor all of that simultaneously, yeah.

[24:13] Julianne Moore: It's not, I don't know, you're really good at it.

[24:13] Bart Freundlich: Really good.

[24:18] Julianne Moore: I don't know.

[24:19] Bart Freundlich: It's really something to behold. And the other piece of it that kind of rocks my socks is you can do all of that and you can appear unobserved, which I think is we talk about that.

[24:30] Julianne Moore: Nigh on impossible.

[24:32] Bart Freundlich: That's interesting.

[24:33] Julianne Moore: Yeah.

[24:34] Bart Freundlich: So as if no one's watching you, as if complaining on self-producing it. As if there's not like a bajillion dollar camera beating down on you.

[24:41] Julianne Moore: That that's my favorite part. That magic trick. Well, but that's I that for me is a difference between film acting and stage acting. I find that stage acting is so difficult, particularly in a proscenium environment, because you actually have to present in a way. So there's a lot of things. I think you said that, but you don't like that. I don't like that. So the other dimension is that you know you pretend that it's you know, you have to know what's happening technically, you have to feel it and stuff, but then you also have to be presentational. The thing about film acting is that there is no presentation. You can just RPG with two things.

[25:19] Bart Freundlich: Yeah, can you uh is it the does the presenting is it distasteful to you because there's a like a it feels false, or you have to like like gussy up a bunch of breath to do it? What is it that you don't like about it?

[25:31] Julianne Moore: I don't think I feel it doesn't seem gonna sound really silly. It doesn't feel private, and I know that it's been and what on a film I does feel private because everybody I'm working with is a colleague. So I'm not being observed, I'm not being observed performatively. I'm working with everybody that I'm working with, we're all working to the same end. So I can do that stuff in front of them because we're all making a movie together. The director's, you know, story, the writer's story, the whole camera department is doing their job, the production designer's done their job, the other actors are there. So we're a team, you know.

[26:09] Bart Freundlich: So interesting in a performance in in you know, in a theatrical place, I'm I'm on the team with all my people on stage, but the audience is there simply to observe it. You're like, what are you fucking? What are you why are you doing here? I'm having a someone succeeds on stage that you see. What are you seeing? I see them being enormously private. Like Stephen Delane, I don't know if you've ever seen Steven Delane on stage. He um he blows me away because he's somehow able to be uh quiet in his affect and his his voice and his physicality and it in a way to the background.

[26:45] Julianne Moore: Yeah. And I'm like, I don't know how he does that. I mean, because you don't see that very often. I I feel like uh I maybe the I don't know if it was the first time you registered on me, Julie, but that watching that Vanya on 42nd Street, that's where I I had been at the Guthrie. I had studied, I had thought I was gonna be a classical rep actress. And it was seeing that where I was like, oh that's what it can be. Right. Like I understood Chekhov and classics in a way I had not in all of my studies. And I also felt like an enormous hack. No testament to the the talent certainly that those artists that put that together. But also the amount of time that you all had been soaking in it.

[27:34] Bart Freundlich: Right. It was five years it was five years of doing it but what was great about it and this is what changed things for me as an actor it was the first time I worked something theatrically that was not performative. It was not supposed to be that the idea was we were going to do it. We were gonna we were going to enact it or be in it as intimately as possible you know for all those years and that there was going to be no result. So if somebody acted you know somebody it was different, it was like a rehearsal every time. So you were going to react authentically to what that actor was giving you. And if that didn't bring you to the to the fourth act, well, it didn't, you know, sometimes it went off the rails.

[28:12] Julianne Moore: Yeah. So I was I you really had to take that. And and and I thought that's the kind of work I I want to do, you know, in film. I want to have it be that authentic and that not that performative.

[28:23] Bart Freundlich: Cams, yeah, I I can't recommend it highly enough. You would love it. And you there's something about Julie's performance in that where it's like real human beings. It's like real human beings, but it's Chekhov. You're saying all those words. I had never seen anything like that before. You know who I was talking about the other day, and I was just mentioning it to somebody else. Um, George Stephanopoulos, who is the, you know, the anchor on GMA. One of the things that's really unusual about him, when you do any of those talk shows, you immediately are interviewed, and people have a somewhat presentational voice when they speak to you because they're like, you know, hey, good morning, everybody.

Here we are. George is the only person welcome to the spark files like that. George is the only person who's ever interviewed me in a television uh capacity whose whose vocal quality doesn't change from from from the personal to the public. And so when he starts speaking to you, it's that he just keeps and you're like and it's really wonderful.

[29:21] Julianne Moore: That was that was that Vanya on 42nd Street. It's like you're using it next time. So when you see that, you're kind of like, Is this this feels weird? What's happening? Goddamn revelation. Yeah, also Louie Maul, who directed it, did um there the whole big speech was done in voiceover on a close-up of Julie's face. So she wasn't actually saying it. Um it was like a right through two, three-minute speech that was of your voiceover while you were running it in your head, I imagine. Making faces.

[29:46] Bart Freundlich: Or thinking about it.

[29:48] Julianne Moore: Yeah, making faces. Isn't that what actors do? You make faces. Uh if you if you're listening to this and you want to enjoy something a lot, go watch that Vanya on 42nd Street. It's so fucking good. I want to.

[30:01] Bart Freundlich: Yeah. I also want to ask you. We all I feel like we almost got to this. Susan and I talk a lot about when we started this project, like this was like a marriage. Like we're in it. Uh-huh. And for better. Sexless creative marriage. But it got me thinking like yours is like a marriage within a marriage. Yeah. When you collaborate. And can what can you tell us about that? What's that like? And how do can you compartmentalize it? How does it work?

[30:31] Bart Freundlich: That's the most boring part, right? No, look, I'm watching you. Like we're partners in everything. Yeah. You know? That's the question, really. Like, so does it just bleed into each other?

[30:42] Julianne Moore: Yes, I think so. Yeah. It's all one marriage. Even we're even we we have a we sort of on the um in anticipation of because of after the wedding, we start Julie and I started a company together. Um, you know, which is very unusual, I think, for people who are married to have a company to get it.

[30:59] Bart Freundlich: Wait, wait, wait. A film company first.

[31:01] Julianne Moore: Yeah. What's the name of it?

[31:03] Bart Freundlich: 4640.

[31:04] Julianne Moore: 460.

[31:05] Bart Freundlich: Because 6040 was taken.

[31:07] Julianne Moore: No, 4060 is a great name. Um but we and so now we talk a lot about things that um it they're all things that are exciting creatively. None of them are through thinking. We're gonna get rich off that, but um, but we talk a lot about projects that we could get involved with as either producers or how could we what should this be a TV show, or should this be a film? So we talk like we were just talking about that this morning before you went to yoga and before I went, uh, where did I go? To get an SRE bone?

[31:38] Bart Freundlich: Straight to hell yeah so wait a second. So you are you're developing, is it specifically like would you always write and direct Bart would you always star Julie or is it or is it just what you want to is blowing wind up your skirt?

[31:53] Bart Freundlich: Some of it is because it's so difficult to get things made um these days and you end up as the actor the main actor or the director and the writer doing a lot of the producing work. Producers may not agree with that necessarily but it's really true. You end up I Julie on after the wedding Julie was the one who reached out to Michelle Williams. That's right and you told me one time that you like fundraise like a producer turned to you and say darling would you please get $10,000 out of show and so and like you actually fundraise on films.

[32:22] Julianne Moore: We well we did we didn't on this film in particular in this film we we actually ended up fronting some money we we for for um our own some product placement money. Like some people wanted to be involved in the film for product placement we needed some extra money in order to make get an extra day of shooting and we but you don't get that money until you proven that the product has made it into the film at the end. So we kind of took the risk of saying we'll front that money so you took the kids college fund and you were like slid it across the table.

[32:53] Bart Freundlich: It's fine. It was funny though editing the film knowing that there were moments where I we this scene wasn't working for the uh but it was uncuttable that it was uncuttable because she was wearing a shirt doing it. No I'm just kidding. We actually we actually worked it out so we only did a portion of it so we'd never be in that position. I have to tell you I have a keen eye for product placement and I smelled none of it in that movie we were very strict about only doing because Julie's character is so wealthy.

[33:22] Julianne Moore: Yeah we were able to get some things on it was the perfect kind of mixture and there was nothing she didn't you know she didn't kill anyone or or there wasn't a lot of cursing it's PG 13 oddly so that was helpful yeah but it will rip your goddamn heart out so you all are you're making things together and you feel like it's sort of a seamless like you're talking about it over the dining room table seamless well I mean it's it's ch I mean I it's it's different for me. I mean you know I as somebody you know I'm very compartmentalized.

[33:52] Bart Freundlich: Um I think as a as a being an actor and then having a family you know especially when our kids were little it was like I would I could do my work and then come home be done with it and be a parent and and I think in this situation we weren't compartmentalized at all right not not in this no we weren't but I never am because I'm yeah he's 247 with the movie so it was actually just great for me to have a partner who I could talk to about it all of it and who was invested in it equally because she'll listen to me about anything or put on that listening face.

[34:24] Julianne Moore: That's right.

[34:25] Bart Freundlich: But but but before it was sort of like this is what I think and good luck with that tomorrow. I'll see you when you get home from work. But now it was like there was real investment and when we would go home we take the weekend and we'd rewrite stuff or I'd ask her questions. So for me that was great and you know we're yeah it's it's wonderful. I love it. And then I am the funny thing is though too we're we have very different rhythms you know um Bart is slower and and more thoughtful about decisions and I'm that's true. I I am really fat. So I don't love I don't really love small talk. I like to like kind of cut a little bit to it and I remember asking, we were sitting, like waiting between setups or something, and I was like, what do you think the central conflict in your uh marriage is? And you said he's slow. He's got a slower pace, you've got a faster pace, but you also talked about how that has been of benefit, mutual benefit to you.

[35:20] Julianne Moore: Absolutely.

[35:21] Bart Freundlich: And I think even creatively, there would be times when you know he'd be like, I'm making a creative decision. And I'm like, I wrote the email. Like I did it, like I already wrote it. No, and no, no, no that it was great because Julie was very, very uh, she would push forward always. She always does with everything. But um, there were also other times, like remember when we went scouting for the house.

[35:43] Julianne Moore: Oh god, I wanted to, I was ready to make a decision on the city.

[35:46] Bart Freundlich: We got to this house that was like totally mediocre. It was the house that was gonna be the set piece for the entire family. Well you're like, we'll take it. And we got up there, and she's just like, this is gonna work fine. I said, this is great. I said it's 35 minutes out of town. I said it's brand new. So we can just art direct the hell out of it, just fill it with furniture and stuff and a place for catering. And I said, it's got a place for kidding right there, and there's plenty of parking down the hill. I said, This is gonna work.

[36:07] Julianne Moore: And Bart was like, I'm like, I didn't picture it like this.

[36:10] Bart Freundlich: Yeah, my mind's eye is saying, Yeah, hold up.

[36:13] Julianne Moore: Yeah, that's right.

[36:24] Bart Freundlich: Scarf could be something that I wanna make or how I wanna be.

[36:30] Julianne Moore: I'll pump it in the spark fire.

[36:35] Bart Freundlich: I jump into my spark.

[36:38] Julianne Moore: Spark.

[36:39] Bart Freundlich: Let's open up the spark fire.

[36:45] Julianne Moore: That was part one of our interview with Julianne Moore and Bart Freundlich. Part two will be available next week, unless it's the future, or your quantum leaping. Then it's available now. So go on, give it a listen, find out what how it all turned out for Lil Bart and Julie.