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[0:00] Unknown Speaker: Spark File podcast may contain profanity and other adult content. Please use your discretion.

[0:09] ♪ Musical number ♪

[0:36] Susan Blackwell: Welcome to The Spark File, where we believe that everyone is creative, but smart creative people don't go it alone.

[0:44] Laura Camien: That's Laura Camien.

[0:45] Susan Blackwell: And that's Susan Blackwell.

[0:47] Laura Camien: And we are creativity coaches who help people clarify and accomplish their creative goals.

[0:52] Susan Blackwell: Know that just by listening to this podcast, you're joining a warm and wonderful clan of creatives.

[0:58] Laura Camien: But hold up. You might be asking yourself, what exactly is a spark file?

[1:03] Susan Blackwell: A spark file is a place where you consistently collect all of your inspirations and fascinations.

[1:09] Laura Camien: And every episode, we are going to reach deep into our spark files and exchange some sparks.

[1:15] Susan Blackwell: And from time to time, we're gonna talk to some folks who spark us too.

[1:19] Laura Camien: Your mission, should you choose to accept it, is to take some of those sparks of inspiration and make something of your own.

[1:27] Susan Blackwell: So without further ado, let's open up The Spark File.

[1:34] Laura Camien: Oh, that was fun. What a fun little experiment.

[1:39] Susan Blackwell: Hi, Laura Camien.

[1:42] Laura Camien: Hi, Susan Blackwell.

[1:44] Susan Blackwell: Laura, I've got a spark for you today.

[1:46] Laura Camien: I am excited about that.

[1:48] Susan Blackwell: Before I spark you, I've been on a documentary kick lately.

[1:53] Laura Camien: Actually, I've been on a lot of different kicks lately because since I've cut social media out of my life, I'm looking in other places.

[2:00] Susan Blackwell: So I have been watching documentaries, got my library card, and I've been checking audiobooks and book books out.

[2:08] Laura Camien: I love that. Did you ever read A Tree Grows in Brooklyn?

[2:13] Susan Blackwell: Oh my God. I mean a million years ago.

[2:17] Laura Camien: I never intersected with that in school.

[2:20] Susan Blackwell: I don't think it was ever assigned.

[2:22] Laura Camien: I thought it was gonna be sort of like old timey and charming. And I was like, oh, this is gritty. I'm so into it.

[2:30] Susan Blackwell: I also I jumped onto social media briefly just to say, hey, friends, does anybody have any great audiobooks that they recommend?

[2:39] Laura Camien: I love audiobooks. I love a great audiobook.

[2:42] Susan Blackwell: And somebody recommended The Southern Book Club's Guide to Vampire Slaying, which is a Grady Hendrix horror novel.

[2:53] Laura Camien: And I've enjoyed Grady Hendrix's writing in the past.

[2:56] Susan Blackwell: Okay.

[2:57] Laura Camien: And that was super fun.

[2:59] Susan Blackwell: Uh no, I'm fascinated by that because as it's well documented in this podcast. No scary movies, neither one of us are horror people, right?

[3:09] Laura Camien: But you're like, I will read some gore and horror.

[3:12] Susan Blackwell: Oh, yeah. That's fascinating.

[3:14] Laura Camien: There's no like little violin that's like somebody's behind the door.

[3:19] Susan Blackwell: Yeah, no jump scares.

[3:20] Laura Camien: No jump scares. That's it in a nutshell.

[3:22] Susan Blackwell: Okay. But back to documentaries. I watched and enjoyed two documentaries.

[3:27] Laura Camien: One was The Hobby, which is all about board games and predominantly contemporary board games and their creation and consumption.

[3:36] Susan Blackwell: How cool.

[3:37] Laura Camien: Yes. So I thought that was a fascinating world.

[3:40] Susan Blackwell: And Hendry, which is a documentary about Phil Hendry.

[3:44] Laura Camien: If you don't know Phil Hendry, uh radio disc jockey, who when led off the leash to do whatever it is that he wanted to do, what he did was create a talk show where he would play the host and imperceptibly would also play the guest.

[4:08] Susan Blackwell: No way.

[4:09] Laura Camien: And there were people that listened to his talk show and called into his talk show, not knowing that they were completely being put on because the guests were outrageous.

[4:24] Susan Blackwell: I love this so much.

[4:28] Laura Camien: Yeah. Did I already say this on the podcast, Susan? Just before the holidays, I cut almost all of my streaming services.

[4:36] Susan Blackwell: Oh.

[4:37] Laura Camien: And since that time, I have read eight books. And I mean old timey read them, read with my eyes, holding the physical book in my hands.

[4:46] Susan Blackwell: Yeah. I love that.

[4:48] Laura Camien: Streaming is next for me. I'm like screens. I gotta cut down on screen time.

[4:52] Susan Blackwell: Yeah. I have not missed it, except I did cheat because I was curious about the latest Game of Thrones prequel, which is like night of the Seven Kingdoms.

[5:04] Laura Camien: Did you start it?

[5:06] Susan Blackwell: I did, I watched it.

[5:07] Laura Camien: Yeah. I mean, I enjoyed um I enjoyed some of the characters, but one of the things I can't get over is how, you know, Game of Thrones was like six shows in one.

[5:18] Susan Blackwell: Like the weaving, the interweaving of these incredible stories.

[5:23] Laura Camien: And each one of these prequels has been like one story at a time. And to be honest, I'm like, I'm sorry, but you trained my brain for something far more complex than this.

[5:33] Susan Blackwell: So where's the other five plot lines? Let's go. You guys are lazy over there.

[5:38] Laura Camien: Really cut down on locations. One little area of Westeros. What are you doing?

[5:42] Susan Blackwell: So um, yeah. Anyway, I think I feel like it fell short, but I did break my streamers.

[5:50] Laura Camien: I agree with you. That's that's one of the last hardest things, but I'm getting ready to tackle that too.

[5:57] Susan Blackwell: Well, I gotta say, Laura, just what I'm reading about what these little two-minute videos do to our brains. I'm just like, I gotta get my brain back.

[6:06] Laura Camien: I have to. It's too important to me. I like my brain, and I'm gonna give it some really good stuff.

[6:13] Susan Blackwell: I'm with you.

[6:14] Laura Camien: I'm with you, Laura Camien.

[6:16] Susan Blackwell: Speaking of good stuff, speaking of something delicious and nutritious, can I interest you in a sparky spark?

[6:23] Laura Camien: Yeah.

[6:24] Susan Blackwell: So I'm very excited about the spark. This is another I cannot believe we have not done this spark.

[6:32] Laura Camien: So I'm very, very excited to share it.

[6:35] Susan Blackwell: So we were in our Coach's Corner session last week.

[6:39] Laura Camien: Coach's Corner is where Sparkfile course participants can get some dedicated coaching time.

[6:45] Susan Blackwell: Love it. The Sparkfile Creative Community also features coaching and office hours, but Coach's Corner is just for people in our courses.

[6:54] Laura Camien: And we're in Coach's Corner last week, and the wonderful Juliet Gray posed this to the room.

[7:01] Susan Blackwell: Juliet wondered if after completing a significant creative project or after a big milestone within a creative project, if anybody else had the experience of a creative hangover.

[7:14] Laura Camien: It could mean feeling exhausted, but it could also include a sense of shame or difficulty returning to mundane responsibilities like washing the dishes.

[7:25] Susan Blackwell: Yeah. Or the challenge of getting the energy together to tackle the next phase of the project or the next creative project.

[7:32] Laura Camien: Oh my God. A little backstory. For years, Juliet was in a leadership position running the Performing Arts Project, which, among other things, ran a very rigorous summer program for young creatives.

[7:46] Susan Blackwell: And Juliet recognized this pattern in herself where she would run this camp for five weeks, and then she had to return to reality.

[7:55] Laura Camien: And there was a real come down afterwards.

[7:58] Susan Blackwell: So Juliet was in Coach's Corner wondering if her fellow artists had experienced that creative hangover. And if so, how people worked with it.

[8:08] Laura Camien: And the minute Juliet surfaced it, I announced to the room that with Juliet's permission and with their permission, I would love to bring this topic back to the podcast and share a spark on it.

[8:21] Susan Blackwell: Oh, hell yes. I mean, we have discussed, we brushed this on the podcast. You and I have talked about it extensively off mic, but again, I don't think we've ever done an episode on it, but I had to check.

[8:32] Laura Camien: I don't think so.

[8:33] Susan Blackwell: I don't think so. I have had creative hangovers that caused me to put a project away for years.

[8:41] Laura Camien: Yeah.

[8:41] Susan Blackwell: I've had hangovers about the way I behave during a creative hangover.

[8:46] Laura Camien: Uh so that's a hangover on a hangover, and it's not pretty.

[8:51] Susan Blackwell: That's the double arrow.

[8:52] Laura Camien: A lot of a lot of shame around that.

[8:54] Susan Blackwell: Yeah. A lot of shame around that. That's the double arrow.

[8:56] Laura Camien: Yeah. Um, I, after Juliet introduced the topic, I opened it up to everyone present. After a significant creative project or output, had anyone else experienced a depletion of energy or feelings like sadness, shame, depression.

[9:14] Susan Blackwell: And further, had they experienced the challenge of re-engaging with day-to-day responsibilities and life.

[9:23] Laura Camien: One person said that creativity hangovers to them could feel like an energy drop, the feeling of apathy, or they likened it to the character depression kitty on the show Big Mouth.

[9:36] Susan Blackwell: If you're not aware, Big Mouth is an animated series, and on it, there's a big purple cat voiced by Gene Smart that lulls you onto the couch, that wants to just put a quilt over you, sit on your chest so it's hard to get up.

[9:52] Laura Camien: It can be especially powerful if there isn't something you're looking forward to, a big project that you're stepping into.

[9:59] Susan Blackwell: Another person said that for a solo creative, it can feel like a solipsistic thing where you spend a long time in your own head working on a thing, then you release it, you share it with the world made up of people who don't care nearly as much as you do.

[10:15] Laura Camien: And that feeling of don't you people realize I've spent a whole year of my life making this thing?

[10:21] Susan Blackwell: So that person was describing the energy that they put into a significant creative lift, but also the response or lack of response that can add to and inform a creative hangover.

[10:34] Laura Camien: Oh God, yes.

[10:36] Susan Blackwell: Another person seconded the depressive feeling of it and the shame that can sometimes be woven in as well.

[10:44] Laura Camien: Fueled by in their particular case, a sense of who am I to have done all that, even if the thing went really well.

[10:52] Susan Blackwell: Sometimes even more when it goes really well.

[10:55] Laura Camien: Yeah. Because who were you to shine that bright?

[10:57] Susan Blackwell: Who were you? Not to put you on the spot, but oh do.

[11:01] Laura Camien: Yeah. Would you share a bit more about when you've experienced this type of thing and how have you experienced it?

[11:10] Susan Blackwell: Oh gosh, Laura. I mean, depending on how far back you want to go to when like when I had so much less self-awareness or understanding of any of this into like more recent years. But but yeah, I definitely it definitely shows up in the who were you to. I feel like this is the Midwestern, like, who were you to wear that thing, call that attention to yourself, do that good.

[11:37] Laura Camien: Like you shouldn't have done that. You should you should hide that, cover that up. Um so there's that. Um then there's been the times where like something didn't go well, and like someone or someone said something really mean.

[11:58] Susan Blackwell: Yes, that is was like, okay, we'll set this aside, and my brain will spin out for a period of time about the mean thing that was said and not get back to the actual creative project.

[12:10] Laura Camien: Yeah. But more recently, I think I told you when I had this moment, I had this realization in the shower. Um, I don't know, maybe seven, seven, eight years ago. But I had done something big and bold, and I think it was in regard to the spark file. We were like really putting ourselves out there and doing things. And I was in the shower hearing all of these voices that were like, what do you like? What do you think you're doing? Who said you could do that? Um, and I had this revelation that I'm like, oh, you guys are here because I'm doing good. You guys are here because I'm headed in the right direction and you're terrified.

[13:00] Susan Blackwell: Yeah.

[13:01] Laura Camien: I was like, I see you guys. And from that, my life changed from that moment on. Because whenever, whenever they show up, I'm like, okay, all right. If I was doing something that did not make you nervous at all, you would be silent.

[13:17] Susan Blackwell: I was on the couch scrolling right now. Not one of these voices is gonna show up and be like, you shouldn't be doing that.

[13:24] Laura Camien: Yes. So um, yeah. So it started to shift for me probably about eight years ago.

[13:29] Susan Blackwell: That's awesome.

[13:30] Laura Camien: Is that helpful?

[13:31] Susan Blackwell: I think it's super helpful to talk about this with people and to hear what their experience of this is. That's why this conversation that Juliet surfaced in Coach's Corner was just I was a delight. It was so good. Um, I experienced variations on this depending on what happened on the inside and what happened on the outside and how those two forces interact.

[13:58] Laura Camien: Meaning, what experience did I have internally? How much adrenaline and cortisol dumped into my system? Or how much oxytocin? Did my performance anxiety really kick in and thus more chemicals in my system? Was the experience particularly vulnerable or physically taxing or emotionally draining? And then externally, what came back at me? Did I get a showstopping ovation? Did someone say something weird? Was I damned by faint praise that I'm still perseverating on? Did I get yelled at? Like all of these both internal and external things.

[14:37] Susan Blackwell: And then also factors like have I reset with a good night's sleep?

[14:42] Laura Camien: Yes.

[14:43] Susan Blackwell: Did I drink alcohol around this time, which can add to some of the depleting or depressing feelings? All of these different factors can really inform what my particular brand of creative hangover feels like and how severe it is. And uh not to jump to solutions too quickly, but I find that if I take healthy steps entering into a creative situation throughout the situation and even exiting the situation, I may alleviate some of the harsher hangover feelings.

[15:15] Laura Camien: Because let me be clear, I have had creative hangovers that have left me curled up in my bed under a blanket and knocked me, like you were just saying, knocked me out of the creative game for extended periods of time.

[15:33] Susan Blackwell: Yeah. So that's why I feel like this topic, I cannot believe we're seven seasons in and we're just covering it. I mean, it's so essential. And we do talk about it in our classes, it's that recovery time and having the self-awareness that most likely taking a creative risk is going to be followed by some kind of feelings, just based solely on the chemical cascade that's happening in your body.

[15:57] Laura Camien: Yes.

[15:58] Susan Blackwell: So the quicker, like the real growth for us happens in that, like can we condense time, the amount of time it takes us to recover from a thing?

[16:07] Laura Camien: Yeah.

[16:08] Susan Blackwell: And can we plan accordingly?

[16:10] Laura Camien: Yes.

[16:10] Susan Blackwell: Knowing full well the next day at a minimum, the next day is a recovery day, like an athlete.

[16:16] Laura Camien: Yeah. We were just talking about this last night in our Blaze class because we were introducing them to the Sparkfile feedback process. And during the wrap up, I asked the class, especially people who had been through the process previously, what they would add, what recommendations they had.

[16:36] Susan Blackwell: And the brilliant Anne Marie Petersma piped up and said that for her, when she first started doing creativity shares in our feedback process, she was like, Oh, I'll feel great afterwards. I'll go out to dinner with my friends. And she was like, if you're a certain type of person, you may want to literally schedule two hours so that you can reflect, emote, cathart, do what you need to do before you're going to re-engage with the world.

[17:05] Laura Camien: Cathart.

[17:06] Susan Blackwell: I catharted myself. So a while back on the podcast, we talked to Lynn Manuel Miranda about how his life is such that he does so much in quick succession without a lot of downtime. And I said to him that his schedule would fry my nervous system. And he was saying that's the hard part because you really do need time to recover.

[17:31] Laura Camien: During that conversation, we asked him what advice he would give to anyone who is facing that space after the conclusion of a big project, whether it's the end of the run of your high school musical or post the launch of your film or book, or after a big creative life event, like a wedding or a graduation or even a funeral.

[17:52] Susan Blackwell: Yeah.

[17:52] Laura Camien: He said that after every high school musical that he performed in, they had a tradition where they would put up the show posters in the back of the auditorium, and then everyone would sign each other's show posters. And after the show would end its weekend run on a Saturday night, he would plan to stay in bed on Sunday and read the show poster messages that everyone had written to him.

[18:18] Susan Blackwell: And he would be so sad that the show was over.

[18:21] Laura Camien: And he'd read the messages from the graduating seniors and the messages from the girls that he had crushes on. What he was describing was carving out some downtime to sit in a little grieving, a little reflection, a little pride about what had been accomplished.

[18:40] Susan Blackwell: And then he said, have a plan for a week from then.

[19:00] Laura Camien: Plan on it. Plan on it. Plan on it.

[19:03] Susan Blackwell: So in our Elum course, we do a showcase in the spring, live in New York City where course participants shine the light of whatever their big creative project is. And the morning after, we schedule a brunch for those Illumineers and we have a lightly structured conversation so everyone gets a chance to share where they're at and what their experience was.

[19:26] Laura Camien: And for some folks, they're sitting in that pride that it went great.

[19:32] Susan Blackwell: And some folks reflect that they feel like they were just shot out of a cannon because it really can feel like that, even if it went well.

[19:40] Laura Camien: Did we mention you can have just a lot of chemicals running through your body?

[19:44] Susan Blackwell: It can really feel for real like a creative hangover. And with Illum, we've even added another piece this year, totally optional. But if someone is feeling really scorched, the night of the showcase, we can get together and process through it.

[20:00] Laura Camien: It's just good to have a little plan in place.

[20:04] Susan Blackwell: That's right. In addition to the preparation you need to do for the creative thing, whatever the creative thing is, you also have a care plan for yourself built around it.

[20:16] Laura Camien: I'm just 100% into it, into it.

[20:20] Susan Blackwell: And I wish younger me had known. You know what I mean? I wish younger me had known that this moment is important no matter how it goes good, well, you know, like if it goes really well, if it if it sucked, whatever happens, this moment of processing is important.

[20:38] Laura Camien: So Juliet recently did this big public reading of her original work for the first time in many years.

[20:45] Susan Blackwell: And she very wisely created a pre-show plan.

[20:49] Laura Camien: She scheduled an appointment with her therapist for the day before. She scheduled time with friends the day after. She also said it was helpful to have her next thing scheduled.

[21:02] Susan Blackwell: So the next deadline she needed to hit was several days later, just so it wasn't a total drop off.

[21:10] Laura Camien: Several people shared, and Lynn shared this too in our podcast conversation that talking about the experience is a great way to process it.

[21:18] Susan Blackwell: Oh my God.

[21:19] Laura Camien: Whether you feel like it went awesome or nawesome or awesome with a side of what was that weird shit somebody said.

[21:27] Susan Blackwell: Oh my God.

[21:28] Laura Camien: If you have some residual shame around it or weirdness or excitement or grief or pride talking about it, saying out loud and reflecting on it, I think is a key part of the process.

[21:40] Susan Blackwell: That is huge.

[21:42] Laura Camien: And if it isn't too much of a sidebar, I would like to recall the time when so Wes and I were on vacation.

[21:48] Susan Blackwell: We were driving down to like North Carolina for his art gallery show, but I had a table read of a screenplay I'd written.

[21:56] Laura Camien: Yes.

[21:57] Susan Blackwell: And I and I didn't want to change it. So I made sure like we were booked at a bed and breakfast that had Wi-Fi, et cetera. The whole thing went so sideways because there was no Wi-Fi, it was down, there's a place across town you can try, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

[22:18] Laura Camien: I am on the it's a Zoom reading, and I keep getting bounced off of the thing.

[22:27] Susan Blackwell: I personally am responsible for sound feedback when I come back on and blaring everybody's ears out.

[22:35] Laura Camien: I'm so mortified.

[22:37] Susan Blackwell: I am so scarred by the experience. I couldn't hear any of the feedback. I'm sure that it was very useful feedback, but I could not receive it because all I could think about was the tech stuff.

[22:47] Laura Camien: And you sat, I remember clearly, I was sitting outside looking at some hills and valleys in Virginia.

[22:53] Susan Blackwell: It was gorgeous.

[22:55] Laura Camien: Sitting outside in a lawn chair, and you talked to me or listened to me probably for like an hour and a half as I just went over and over again how mortified I was just by the experience of it, not even the content of my show.

[23:11] Laura Camien: I couldn't even get to that part.

[23:12] Susan Blackwell: Yeah.

[23:12] Laura Camien: And Susan, I know you to be a very, very prepared person. And sometimes some flaving curveball will come at you like that tech piece and completely blow you out of the water by surprise.

[23:26] Susan Blackwell: And so to have somebody that you can talk to and process with so that you can get that pain up out of your body.

[23:37] Laura Camien: Yes.

[23:45] Susan Blackwell: Find yourself a friend like Laura Camien who will listen to you and just let you be like, okay, great. Anything else you want to say about it? What else? Just get it out. Say more about that. Say more about that.

[23:57] Laura Camien: Yeah. Another great point was made by again Anne-Marie Petersma. She said something she's observed in herself that she's working on is this. I cannot tell you how wise this is and how deeply I relate to this. Post creative lift, Anne Marie has noticed that she will have lots of physical stuff in her apartment, props, supplies, bags of things she needed for the creative thing.

[24:22] Susan Blackwell: Yeah.

[24:22] Laura Camien: And those things can just sit there and pile up, and it can feel heavy, heavy spiritually, physically, emotionally. So she is working on sooner than later, unpacking those bags, getting stuff put away, getting her physical space back to neutral. She acknowledged the reality that it's challenging because when you're experiencing a creative hangover, you may feel physically depleted. And also your executive function can feel depleted. But if you can encourage yourself to unpack that suitcase, put your shit away, reset, it can be great postcare for a creative hangover.

[25:04] Susan Blackwell: Oh, wow. I loved this. I thought it was wise. Teeing you up for the next thing so beautifully.

[25:12] Laura Camien: Yeah. I think additionally, gentle activities like stretching, a restorative workout, making dinner can help you gently reenter your life. More on that in a second. Another point that surfaced is how we enter into the event can have an impact on how we exit the event.

[25:37] Susan Blackwell: Say more about that.

[25:38] Laura Camien: The great Brady Peters shared how in heightened situations, the examples he gave were right before a long form improv before doing a herald with his improv team, or Brady worked in the White House, and he had his photo taken with President Joe Biden when they were nearing the conclusion of their time working in the White House. And he said, in those heightened moments, right before something, his mind can go to some scary places. Like, what if I accidentally spit on the president? What if I blink in the photo? What if I really fuck up this improv and let everybody down? But by reframing his thoughts, entering into it, he alters his experience during and afterwards.

[26:22] Susan Blackwell: So for him, a powerful reframe has been coming into the present moment, looking around and asking, what would nine-year-old me think of this? What would nine-year-old me, some little kid from Kansas, think about me getting ready to take the stage to do this improv or getting ready to get my photo made with the president in the Oval Office?

[26:45] Laura Camien: I think that nine-year-old would be pretty excited and pretty grateful.

[26:49] Susan Blackwell: I love that. So Juliet reflected on this as well. What would 10-year-old you say to adult you right now?

[26:58] Laura Camien: Probably, this is pretty cool. This is pretty amazing. This is pretty cool.

[27:05] Susan Blackwell: Yeah. It's also why before I perform or teach, I have a practice of saying out loud to anybody in my zone, enjoyment. Let's enjoy this thing that we get to do.

[27:19] Laura Camien: Yes.

[27:20] Susan Blackwell: I also find that if I can meditate fairly close to go time, that creates a gentler on-ramp for me.

[27:28] Laura Camien: Yeah.

[27:29] Susan Blackwell: And I think I would add tapping to this. Thought work, gentle meditation, tapping before we ease in, can ease the creative hangover afterwards.

[27:43] Laura Camien: Yeah.

[27:44] Susan Blackwell: Yeah. Another idea. This year, I'm really committed to some key priorities. Those priorities inform what I do each day. For example, my priorities include a commitment to physical health, mental health, financial well-being, relationships, environment, and creativity. And every day I have a practice where I devote some time to a few of those things, kind of round robin. So, for example, for physical health, I exercise, I eat a healthy diet. For mental health, I meditate, I journal, I tap for creativity, I make something, whether that's painting something, sketching ideas for something, trying a new recipe for environment care, I reset our space every week. I have a committed long-term practice in place. And I find that it makes the highs and lows of the creative journey easier to navigate because I can just return to this practice.

[28:45] Laura Camien: It's so built into my day now that I wouldn't think about not meditating.

[28:45] Susan Blackwell: Right.

[28:45] Laura Camien: I wouldn't think about not resetting. So that is a potential idea.

[28:57] Susan Blackwell: Yeah. I'm curious for folks who are listening. Do you have strategies for processing creative hangovers? Have you had experience with creative hangovers? We would love to hear about them. Please, please throw them into the comments.

[29:12] Laura Camien: Before I get into what do we make of it, do you have other thoughts?

[29:16] Susan Blackwell: These are so, these are so good. And I was thinking as your, you know, the how you go into it helps how you come out of it.

[29:24] Laura Camien: Yeah.

[29:24] Susan Blackwell: Um, the equivalent for me, the equivalent of your enjoyment is I've always been like I'm excited.

[29:31] Laura Camien: Yeah.

[29:31] Susan Blackwell: Um, when nerves show up, I recognize that as excitement because like this is something I prepared for, this is something I asked for, this is something I wanted. This was something I said yes to, and now the moment has arrived. I am excited. And we know, like in our bodies where nervousness and excitement are, they come from the same place. So I'm always like, I convert any feeling like that into I'm excited. And isn't it amazing that this moment has finally arrived, this moment that we've prepared for. Isn't it amazing? Isn't it a miracle?

[30:06] Laura Camien: That's usually when I'm like, why? Why did I agree? And I try to counter that with enjoyment, and you counter it with excitement.

[30:13] Susan Blackwell: I'm excited.

[30:15] Laura Camien: That's us.

[30:15] Susan Blackwell: That's us in a nutshell.

[30:17] Laura Camien: So what do we make of it?

[30:20] Susan Blackwell: Well, when it comes to processing creative hangovers, it's helpful to have a little pre and post creativity plan. And remember, that's in addition to the prep work you're going to do so that you can give your creative work the best possible chance of succeeding. So this is a little bit of extra forethought and pre-planning we want you to do. Do what you can to manage your mind in advance, whether that's a meditation practice, a therapy session, tapping, affirmations, a mental reframe, like what would nine-year-old me make of all this? A gratitude practice. And then have a plan for afterwards. Maybe one lazy day when you're gonna lay in bed and read your show poster messages. But you know you're gonna go for a walk with a friend later, a walk and talk, or you know you're gonna make a beautiful dinner.

Schedule time to talk about it with a great discussion partner. Reflect on the good stuff and process the tough stuff. And unpack your bags and put your shit away as soon as you can. Restore yourself and your space to neutral and keep your commitments. Get up, make your bed, take a shower, get dressed to your shoes, wash the dishes. And as you do that, maybe make room for the next creative dream you want to tackle to come and visit. That is my spark. Creative hangovers.

[31:53] Laura Camien: Ooh, I like it so much.

[31:58] Susan Blackwell: I like it so much.

[31:58] Laura Camien: I like it too. Thank you, Susan. I think it's so useful. And it's so packed with one of the things we always talk about offering ourselves through the whole creative process. And that is kindness, like self-care is so important. And everything you just described is that to a T.

[32:20] Susan Blackwell: And speaking of kindness, I want to a special thanks and shout out to Juliet Gray for surfacing the Spark. And for everybody who was in the room that day, you know who you are. And you made that conversation so useful and so rich. We love, uh, we love our coaching clients.

[32:38] Laura Camien: Yeah, we do. Thank you, friends. So that's it. This episode of The Spark File was made on the lands of the Lenape and the Mohican people. And as always, we hope all of this put a whole bunch of sparks into your file.

[32:52] Susan Blackwell: Hey, listen, if there's a spark you'd like us to explore, or if you'd like to learn more about how to coach with us to accomplish your creative goals, email get creative at thesparkfile.com or reach us through our website, thesparkfile.com.

[33:09] Laura Camien: That's right. You could be one of those awesome illumineers or blazers. You can be in that room having that conversation with us. We will even happily take your feedback, but you know the price of admission. First, you have to share a creative risk you have taken recently.

[33:24] Susan Blackwell: Hey, follow us on social at The Spark File and be sure to subscribe, rate, and five-star review this podcast. It really does help other people find us.

[33:34] Laura Camien: Also, if you like this podcast, we hope you'll share it with those you love.

[33:39] Susan Blackwell: And if you didn't like it, we're excited for you to listen to a different podcast.

[33:45] Laura Camien: Oh, we're excited.

[33:47] Susan Blackwell: We're excited about that.

[33:48] Laura Camien: If something lights you up and gets your creative sparks flying, we are writing you a forever permission slip to make that thing that's been knocking at your door. It's your turn to take that spark and fan it into a flame.

[34:01] Susan Blackwell: You know you gotta take it and make it enjoyment.

[34:07] Laura Camien: Enjoyment.

[34:08] Susan Blackwell: Excitement. When I bump into something that inspires me, I dump it in the spark files.

[34:19] Laura Camien: Could be something that I want to take or how I want to be.

[34:25] Susan Blackwell: I'll pump it in the spark files.

[34:29] Laura Camien: I jump into my spark files.

[34:34] Susan Blackwell: Let's open up the spark file.