This transcript was automatically generated and might contain errors.

[0:10] Susan Blackwell: When I bump into something that inspires me, I jump in my spark file.

[0:18] Laura Camien: Spark file to be something that I wanna make or how I wanna be.

[0:23] Susan Blackwell: I pump it in my spark file.

[0:23] Laura Camien: Spark.

[0:26] Susan Blackwell: I jump into my sparks live.

[0:32] Laura Camien: Let's open up the spark file.

[0:37] Laura Camien: Welcome to the Spark File, where we believe that everyone is creative, but smart creative people don't go it alone.

[0:43] Susan Blackwell: I'm Laura Camien and I'm Susan Blackwell, and we are creativity coaches who help people clarify and accomplish their creative goals.

[0:50] Laura Camien: Know that just by listening to this podcast, you are joining a warm and wonderful clan of creatives. But you also may be asking yourself, what exactly is a spark file?

[1:01] Susan Blackwell: A spark file is a place where you consistently collect all of your inspirations and fascinations. Every episode, we're gonna reach into our personal spark files and exchange some sparks.

[1:13] Laura Camien: And from time to time, we're gonna talk to some folks who spark us too. And your mission, should you choose to accept it, is to take some of those sparks of inspiration and make something of your own.

[1:23] Susan Blackwell: So without further ado, let's open up the spark file.

[1:29] Laura Camien: Oh, Susie Blackwell.

[1:31] Susan Blackwell: Can you believe it?

[1:32] Laura Camien: Podcast day.

[1:34] Susan Blackwell: Not only is it podcast day, it's season finale day.

[1:39] Laura Camien: Season five finale, baby.

[1:43] Susan Blackwell: Season five finale. I can't believe it.

[1:48] Laura Camien: Five nowy.

[1:49] Susan Blackwell: There you go. That's some strong branding.

[1:53] Laura Camien: What I'm here for, it's what I'm here for. My speciality.

[1:53] Susan Blackwell: Laura Camien.

[1:53] Laura Camien: Suze.

[2:01] Susan Blackwell: It's hard to believe. We have a little tradition around these parts.

[2:05] Laura Camien: But I shot.

[2:06] Susan Blackwell: Well, we like to do a little look back at our favorite episodes of the season.

[2:06] Laura Camien: Yeah.

[2:14] Susan Blackwell: My favorite of yours, your favorite of mine, and each of our favorites that we sparked.

[2:21] Laura Camien: That is right. We do do that. Before we do this, and I'm down for it. I'm excited. Let's do it.

[2:28] Susan Blackwell: But also, I want to celebrate some risks we took for this season.

[2:35] Laura Camien: We took some risks. We made some changes.

[2:38] Susan Blackwell: We did. And I we always, it's in our nature to celebrate those things because we know it can be hard to do, it can be scary to do.

[2:47] Laura Camien: And so this season, we did a few things. We made, I think the biggest thing is we made our episodes shorter.

[2:47] Susan Blackwell: Yes.

[2:58] Laura Camien: Yeah. Which was great in a lot of ways.

[3:02] Susan Blackwell: Um, I would say satisfactory in some, like uh there were times when in the longer form where we could like really, really explore a topic.

[3:11] Laura Camien: Well, listen, here's the truth of the matter. Before we hit record and after we hit stop, Laura and I are still talking.

[3:21] Susan Blackwell: And if you did record it, it would be the length of our historic episodes. So, hey, now we can do that as like exclusive content where we keep talking for another hour.

[3:31] Laura Camien: Uh, but you know what? That's the nature of it because we spark each other, and then we're like, hey, you know what else? And we get excited about these topics.

[3:39] Susan Blackwell: But we've made them shorter, we made them more like commute friendly. They're 20 to 30 minutes.

[3:45] Laura Camien: And then another thing that we did this season that I'm really proud of. We have Tim Bosie to thank for this and James Conson.

[3:54] Susan Blackwell: We added transcripts to these episodes onto our website.

[3:59] Laura Camien: Yeah, we've wanted to do that from the beginning when the great Angela Johnson, who is an accessibility expert, met with us right here on the Spark File podcast, and we were exploring ways that we could make the podcast accessible.

[4:14] Susan Blackwell: And I'm so excited that because of our rock steady podcast team, we have been able to do that.

[4:23] Laura Camien: I love that.

[4:24] Susan Blackwell: Yeah, I'm really proud of that. I'm very happy.

[4:26] Laura Camien: And they all live on like an individual page on our website. Each episode has its own little page with uh you know, further resources and uh blurbs and the transcript.

[4:41] Susan Blackwell: YLD transcript. Anything else about experiments or can we dive in to a little bit can.

[4:47] Laura Camien: I just wanted to celebrate those. I'm in need of like some celebration of all the good things that that we're doing that other people are doing.

[4:56] Susan Blackwell: I appreciate that. And to take a moment to celebrate that, like with the transcripts, it took us to season five to be able to have the resources to get that done.

[5:07] Laura Camien: And that's a that's advancement, maybe I think it's important just to note these two like recovering, people pleasing perfectionists, allowed ourselves to keep moving forward like throughout this whole process without the perfection of it being every single thing we envisioned it being, and we're just going step by step.

[5:29] Susan Blackwell: So yes, B plus work out the door. You know, I also in I was having a conversation today about B plus work out the door, which is a phrase that we have mutated from Cara Loenthiel, who is a really, really great coach, specializing in thought work.

[5:48] Laura Camien: And she went to uh RV League School, so she says A minus work out the door. We say B plus.

[5:55] Susan Blackwell: We went to state school.

[5:57] Laura Camien: That's right. But we also I saw this great clip of Liz Gilbert on a podcast, the great Liz Gilbert who wrote Big Magic and Eat Pray Love.

[6:07] Susan Blackwell: And she was talking about how people who get things done, it's not just that sort of B plus work out the door or A minus if you're Carl Loenthiel, it's also self-forgiveness.

[6:07] Laura Camien: Yes.

[6:22] Susan Blackwell: Self-forgiveness and being like, this is good enough. And it's this is not a strong recommendation to listen to this podcast.

[6:32] Laura Camien: But but for example, being able to launch the podcast, and when we had the support and the resources, we were able to add the transcript piece, which is really I know that these dreams may seem very mundane to you listener, but that's something we dreamed of from the launch.

[6:51] Susan Blackwell: And so it took us years to get there. So but that, yeah, self-forgiveness is important, you know, across the board in terms of any all of our creativity to allow ourselves to be like, well, that isn't the best that I've ever done.

[7:06] Laura Camien: And it isn't the best I'm ever going to do. And I just need to keep going. It's the draft for today.

[7:11] Susan Blackwell: Yeah. And I think um, that's true of some of the, you know, we'll get into our favorite episodes, but honestly, that's true of some of our episodes where we're like, wow, I didn't quite hit the mark on that one.

[7:22] Laura Camien: That one didn't live up to what I wanted it to be in my mind. What if we did this was uh we did a post-mortem to season five, and we were like, here's our notes for ourselves.

[7:33] Susan Blackwell: Okay, let's do that in season six. Maybe notes to say.

[7:38] Laura Camien: Um, can we sh share each other's favorite episodes?

[7:38] Susan Blackwell: Yes.

[7:43] Laura Camien: May I go first?

[7:44] Susan Blackwell: Oh, please do.

[7:46] Laura Camien: I want to tell you that of the many quality sparks that you presented to me throughout the course of season five.

[7:54] Susan Blackwell: There were actually two.

[7:56] Laura Camien: I couldn't pick one favorite. So I picked two favorites.

[8:00] Susan Blackwell: And they were moral distress signal, where I learned the term moral distress from you and joined the joiners, where you explored the research and the work around the importance of community.

[8:16] Laura Camien: Oh my gosh. Thank you.

[8:19] Susan Blackwell: Thank you. I I am proud of those. And they feel particularly resonant right now.

[8:25] Laura Camien: I think that's why they were really sticky for me.

[8:28] Susan Blackwell: Number one, moral distress. That episode and you defining that term gave language to something that I have felt, many of us have probably felt, but it articulated it, which is so helpful.

[8:43] Laura Camien: Sometimes just having language for something and being able to communicate it and having somebody else go, Yes, yes. Yeah, that makes sense. Is it's such a it unlocks something.

[8:55] Susan Blackwell: So I love that. I felt that when I discovered that term. Personally, I felt that that I was like, oh, thank you. That describes it.

[9:03] Laura Camien: And now I understand why. Like it's more than just anxiety. It's more than just anger. It's more than just confusion.

[9:11] Susan Blackwell: It's all of these things and all mixed in with powerlessness. So for people that are too lazy to go back and listen to that episode, Laura Camien, will you remind us of moral distress?

[9:24] Laura Camien: Yeah, moral distress, it it actually was originated in sort of the medical community when uh describing when a doctor or a nurse knows exactly what they need to do to help a patient or save a patient, but is powerless to do that based on rules, regulations, bureaucracy, legal, you know, ramifications, etc.

[9:24] Susan Blackwell: Yeah.

[9:50] Laura Camien: And how frustrating and enraging that can be that they're like, ah, I know what to do, I can't do it.

[9:59] Susan Blackwell: And this term then, especially over the pandemic, began to spread to a large, like a larger understanding in terms of our culture, and feeling outraged and angry and frustrated about what is happening in our government, what is happening in our communities around us, and feeling like we know, like if if it were up to us, we know how we could help with more love and empathy and compassion for others, right?

[9:59] Laura Camien: But we're powerless.

[10:37] Susan Blackwell: We are we feel powerless. We're just watching this happen. And I wish that moral distress was, I wish we could reflect back and say, yeah, when you did that back in October, that felt really relevant, not so much now.

[10:51] Laura Camien: Um, but unfortunately, I feel like it's only ringing like a bell even louder now.

[10:57] Susan Blackwell: Here we are, and join the joiners. If I can jump over to that favorite spark sparkle yours, that feels super relevant because we are in this time is Mr. Toad's Wild Ride, and I think it's gonna be this way for quite a while.

[11:15] Laura Camien: And to be able to cultivate and turn to community that feels safe and sane and uplifting feels so important, not just to combat the epidemic of loneliness that our nation is facing, but also to combat the the batshit craziness that our nation is facing.

[11:40] Susan Blackwell: So those two things have been like twin arm floaties, just kind of keeping me afloat.

[11:48] Laura Camien: Suze, I'm just thank you. I'm glad you brought that up.

[11:50] Susan Blackwell: And anyone who hasn't listened to that episode yet, shame on you.

[11:50] Laura Camien: Yeah.

[11:55] Susan Blackwell: Um, please do because it really is research-based how community will save us, like in real life community right now, even on Zoom, if you do it right, people gathering together to play games, work together on a project, share common values, um make art, make art, join the spark file. Like, oh, join the spark file.

[12:21] Laura Camien: All of it matters, and the fact that we have moved to such an online existence and an isolated society.

[12:30] Susan Blackwell: There's research to state, like going back to the 1950s, we've seen this the concept of community deteriorating. And it has we're seeing the results of it now. It has literally torn us apart and weakened our country. And I mean, I just to loop in a couple other episodes thematically, but your reaching out episode had so like I felt such a kinship with that. It felt so um relevant as well. Like because we're I think we're suffering from this isolation.

[13:03] Laura Camien: Yeah.

[13:04] Susan Blackwell: And um, and even the most recent Blue Man Group episode, Blue Man Group was talking about urban isolation, not talking about it, but you know, performing about it back in the 1990s, before the internet, before these social medias even, you know, continued to um drive a wedge between human beings and our authentic connection with each other. So it seems so interesting when I look at this season in particular. There's like a little thread that has woven among so many of our episodes. And on that note, Suze, if you don't mind, can I switch over to my favorite episode of yours?

[13:47] Susan Blackwell: What?

[13:47] Laura Camien: For me?

[13:48] Susan Blackwell: Yes.

[13:54] Laura Camien: Where I think I teased you because I loved, I loved it, like where you were sort of crowdsourcing your sparks. And I loved it. But the first one that you did on it, um, it wasn't, it was not just the crowdsourcing that I loved, but another one of the themes that wove its way through this season was grief.

[14:18] Susan Blackwell: Grief.

[14:19] Laura Camien: Our old friend grief.

[14:20] Susan Blackwell: Our friend grief.

[14:21] Laura Camien: And we, you know, we had an episode about grief losing my dad. Followed by the gift of the episode, uh, learnings from Gavin Creole.

[14:34] Susan Blackwell: Ah, thanks, Laura.

[14:36] Laura Camien: And I'm gonna get choked up talking about it, but just it was it was the embodiment of when in pain and when in grief, how to pour it into the making of something beautiful, just a beautiful gift for others and a beautiful tribute to Gavin. And you did that by reaching out to people, connecting to other people, gathering stories from so many people, adding your own stories, um, just really amplifying the light, like not just shining the light on Gavin Creole, but doing it inside like holding a mirror to his light so that it would be amplified to the world.

[15:26] Susan Blackwell: And I was so moved by by that episode, Suze.

[15:32] Laura Camien: Thank you, Laura Camien. Beautifully done.

[15:34] Susan Blackwell: Thank you.

[15:35] Laura Camien: And thanks to all the people who contributed to that episode.

[15:39] Susan Blackwell: Absolutely.

[15:41] Laura Camien: It was such a gift.

[15:43] Susan Blackwell: Speaking of crowdsourcing my sparks. Thanks to all the people who contributed to my sparks throughout the season, it was a fun game that I was playing. Loved it. Reach out to people. Loved it. Because it's like when a teacher gives a good open-ended assignment. It's so fun and so surprising. The things that people came back with that were so unexpected and so delightful. So thank you for all of your contributions, the ones that made it onto the podcast and the ones that were just wonderful and shared on social media. It made it so fun.

[16:21] Laura Camien: And I'm gonna keep doing it.

[16:26] Susan Blackwell: Yeah, I hope you do.

[16:26] Laura Camien: I may do it from time to time as well.

[16:30] Susan Blackwell: So fun.

[16:30] Laura Camien: It's so fun and it makes it makes me feel so connected, even in our grief, you know, to know. Um, as we talked about in the grief episode, it is a it is not a process but a presence that is going to float in and out of our lives at any given time, any moment is going to revisit one, both of us, our listeners. And so having these sort of what feels like kind of ongoing conversations with listeners and and people in our world, it just makes me feel um just all the more connected.

[17:12] Susan Blackwell: Yeah, yeah.

[17:13] Laura Camien: I loved it for that reason.

[17:15] Susan Blackwell: So good, Susie.

[17:17] Laura Camien: So good. What was your favorite episode that you did?

[17:21] Susan Blackwell: I don't know if favorite is the one, but there's just there's one way.

[17:25] Laura Camien: Sophie's choice, baby.

[17:26] Susan Blackwell: Sophie's choice. Well, going all the way back, if I'm let me just tell you how I'm how I'm voting on the favorite. It's it's based on the thing that lingers with me. Sometimes it's like, oh, things I wish I had said during that episode, but I don't think I did say. Or this idea just keeps spinning round and round. Maybe I need a volume two. Um, but way back, episode one, certainty versus creativity.

[17:56] Laura Camien: Oh my God.

[17:57] Susan Blackwell: When I could I forget that.

[18:00] Laura Camien: That might also be a three-way tie for me.

[18:03] Susan Blackwell: I love that episode. The the book, it came from the book Wellness by Nathan Hill, and there was one line in this book. And what makes me laugh about this is this is the briefest line in the book. The book is about, you know, 2,000 pages long. It is, it is a beast. It's a great book. I loved it, but it is massive. But there is one line in there. After wondering for quite some time in this book, I'm like, how's he gonna weave all this together? This is crazy. I mean, it's all fascinating, but this is crazy. And it all comes together for me personally in a line where he says, you can choose to be certain or you can choose to be alive.

[18:48] Laura Camien: And I have ruminated on this.

[18:52] Susan Blackwell: I have ruminated on this so much, Susan.

[18:56] Laura Camien: I see it every day. It's in the random little like you'll overhear someone at a restaurant and being like, Oh, I think I might want to try the chicken, but I don't know if I'll like it. Like, well, there's only one way to know. Oh, you've got to be the chicken, be alive. Um, but that's like a that's the silliest example. May way more important are the examples like I want to love this person, but I don't know if they'll love me back. Uh I want to make this thing, but I don't know if it's going to be good. And friends, friends, friends, the temptation to move towards certainty/slash safety is only gonna keep us exactly where we are. I think we have to choose to be alive.

[19:46] Susan Blackwell: And I love that so many of us right now.

[19:49] Laura Camien: Like, think about how uncertain everything feels right now.

[19:52] Susan Blackwell: Yeah.

[19:53] Laura Camien: For those of us who are choosing to keep our eyes open and be alive.

[19:58] Susan Blackwell: That was a goodie, Laura.

[20:00] Laura Camien: Thank you, Suze.

[20:01] Susan Blackwell: I liked it. What about you?

[20:03] Laura Camien: Well, I loved what would Gavin do. Like that was uh that to me felt like an art project where I was collaging together. Uh, so that was uh that was a special one to me. But since we already talked about that, I would probably say my menopause and creativity episode because it's so important to me right now, and I think based on the response that I received from listeners, it sounds like I am not alone.

[20:37] Susan Blackwell: Yes, and I appreciated agreed the feeling that I am not alone.

[20:41] Laura Camien: So thank you to everybody who reached out, and I have continued to think more. I think I'm going to create curriculum around this because I think that uh for a certain type of person and for the people who love those persons, yeah. I think it's really relevant how our menopause and our creativity relate to one another.

[21:10] Susan Blackwell: Yeah, I'm really fucking fascinated by it.

[21:12] Laura Camien: Suze, me too. And and one of the things I really loved about what you did in that episode is that you made it so real and um relevant to people, even people who are not at any risk of ever going through menopause themselves. Um, but know people, love people who are going to go through menopause. So it makes to me the way you shared that information, it makes it so much easier for people to have empathy for, you know, my mom did go through a a time where we all thought she had lost her fucking mind. Or yeah, those years with mom were weird. Hey, is it possible mom was going through menopause and going through a really difficult time? Or how about that coworker down the hall that everybody like is getting so annoyed with because A, B or C, you know?

Um is it possible that person is struggling through menopause? Might we be able to have a little more empathy, a little more compassion, a little more understanding about what women throughout history have gone through with little to no support from the medical community.

[22:28] Susan Blackwell: Yeah.

[22:28] Laura Camien: And I also love the idea of if you are somebody who is entering into this or you're in the thick of it, you're experiencing it. The awareness that you are still capable of vibrant work.

[22:47] Susan Blackwell: Absolutely.

[22:49] Laura Camien: That work may change from what it looked like and what you were excited about making, you know, five years ago, 10 years ago, 20 years ago. So granting ourselves the grace and the flexibility to let that shift happen.

[23:04] Susan Blackwell: Yeah.

[23:05] Laura Camien: So I'm I that was a that was also a favorite of mine. And just like a little update in case anybody, I feel like since we recorded that episode, I have learned more.

[23:18] Susan Blackwell: I have calibrated my medication with the help of my doctor, calibrated my medication so that I am feeling more and more myself.

[23:29] Laura Camien: And so I just wanted to offer that to anybody who's listening who is despairing because it can be a rough ride that there is hope, and it requires personal agency and research and conversations and a really, really good doctor acting as your partner in all of this. But there's positive change available.

[23:52] Susan Blackwell: Yeah.

[23:55] Laura Camien: Yes, Susan. Thank you for that. Because I think you really did uh just now and also in that episode, really offer hope.

[24:04] Susan Blackwell: Hope.

[24:05] Laura Camien: I have a few little baby updates.

[24:07] Susan Blackwell: Tell me just little baby updates in our time remaining.

[24:10] Laura Camien: So this is so so fucking specific. But I have discovered a paint, and it is such a great paint that I feel like this is the world must know about it. The world must know I bought this myself. This is not an ad. This is not a paid endorsement. I discovered a paint. It is manufactured and shipped from the United Kingdom. So it was a little bit of an investment. Yeah. I thought about it for about a year before I pulled the trigger and made the purchase. And I have to tell you, this paint has brought me so much delight using it, working with it.

[24:56] Susan Blackwell: It is wonderful.

[24:58] Laura Camien: The name of the company that makes this paint is Gold Farben.

[25:03] Susan Blackwell: And this is paint that is made for use on memorials like gravestones.

[25:13] Laura Camien: It is made to be used outdoors in harsh weather conditions, which is to say it's incredibly durable.

[25:22] Susan Blackwell: Wow.

[25:23] Laura Camien: But the story behind it is so interesting.

[25:25] Susan Blackwell: The first thing that I was aware of, though they have a full color line, was a paint called Craig's Gold.

[25:33] Laura Camien: And it looks like gold leaf.

[25:36] Susan Blackwell: It looks like real gold in the letters on a memorial stone.

[25:41] Laura Camien: Yeah.

[25:41] Susan Blackwell: And here's the story behind it, which I think is a spark. What a spark to make paint. Gold Farben Limited founder, Grant Penfield's younger brother Craig tragically passed away in 2017.

[25:55] Laura Camien: In conversation with Craig's Memorial Mason, Grant realized the need for a bespoke gold paint that would look as good as gold leaf and withstand years of weathering without losing its brilliance.

[26:07] Susan Blackwell: Several years of development and testing ensued as Grant endeavored to create a legacy for his sibling.

[26:12] Laura Camien: The result, Craig's Gold Leaf.

[26:16] Susan Blackwell: So that's the spark of how this paint came to be developed and made and distributed, which I thought was a beautiful spark.

[26:25] Laura Camien: It's incredible.

[26:26] Susan Blackwell: And the paint.

[26:28] Laura Camien: Top notch.

[26:29] Susan Blackwell: It is top tier.

[26:31] Laura Camien: It is so good.

[26:33] Susan Blackwell: Purses, shoes, frames, you name it.

[26:38] Laura Camien: And I'm telling you, I can't, I don't know how to recommend this highly enough.

[26:43] Susan Blackwell: It is such high quality paint.

[26:45] Laura Camien: It's durable, it's flexible.

[26:47] Susan Blackwell: The finish is unbelievable.

[26:51] Laura Camien: And it's an investment, but it's one that I'm so happy that I made.

[26:56] Susan Blackwell: Oh, this is good to know.

[26:58] Laura Camien: I cannot wait to see some of the things that you've painted.

[27:02] Susan Blackwell: And again, not a paid promotion.

[27:05] Laura Camien: They don't know that I'm saying these words right now.

[27:07] Susan Blackwell: Not yet, anyway.

[27:10] Laura Camien: I love the spark.

[27:12] Susan Blackwell: I love, I'm so thankful to Gold Farbin for creating this paint.

[27:16] Laura Camien: I love it so much.

[27:17] Susan Blackwell: So I just wanted to shout them out.

[27:18] Laura Camien: So good.

[27:19] Susan Blackwell: Thank you for that.

[27:19] Laura Camien: I also wanted to shout out this is a spark that you did years ago.

[27:26] Susan Blackwell: And just this morning, I finished the book Lincoln and the Bardo by George Saunders.

[27:32] Laura Camien: Wow.

[27:33] Susan Blackwell: So that is a spark with a long fuse, Laura Camien. That book rocked my socks.

[27:44] Laura Camien: You're well.

[27:44] Susan Blackwell: I especially want to recommend the audiobook.

[27:48] Laura Camien: The book is narrated by Ron Swanson himself, Nick Offerman.

[27:52] Susan Blackwell: Yes, David Sedaris, and a cast of 165 people.

[27:58] Laura Camien: You know, I might need to listen to it.

[28:02] Susan Blackwell: If you're hungry for a delicious, sparky treat, listen to the audiobook of Lincoln and the Bardo.

[28:08] Laura Camien: And I wanna, I want to warn you, and I want to warn anyone listening to this.

[28:13] Susan Blackwell: The first chapters are challenging in audiobook form.

[28:19] Laura Camien: You're not sure who the character is who's speaking.

[28:23] Susan Blackwell: Yeah.

[28:23] Laura Camien: You're not sure. There's a lot of what I first perceived as interruptions where they cite the sources of every single thing that is said.

[28:33] Susan Blackwell: And I was just like, oh, this is gonna be some hard going.

[28:36] Laura Camien: Susan, it's hard in the book as well, where you're just reading it because it's not a source down at the bottom of the page.

[28:44] Susan Blackwell: It's on the page there.

[28:45] Laura Camien: Yeah.

[28:45] Susan Blackwell: And you're like, oh, oh, I can't get a, I can't get going.

[28:48] Laura Camien: Yeah.

[28:49] Susan Blackwell: This is what I did.

[28:50] Laura Camien: And I offer this to anybody who's interested in listening to this incredible audiobook.

[28:54] Susan Blackwell: I listened to the first chapter, I listened to the second chapter.

[28:58] Laura Camien: I was like, oh, this is rough.

[29:01] Susan Blackwell: Online on, I Googled there, George Saunders.

[29:05] Laura Camien: There's a YouTube video where George Saunders helps you to understand how to read or listen to his book.

[29:14] Susan Blackwell: And then I listened to that. I went back to the beginning and I was like, piece of cake.

[29:19] Laura Camien: Wow.

[29:20] Susan Blackwell: Yeah.

[29:21] Laura Camien: That's awesome.

[29:23] Susan Blackwell: Another smarter person might just listen to the first chapter, stay focused, go back and start again and keep going.

[29:30] Laura Camien: Well, what was the advice he gave in terms of like, here's how to listen to it?

[29:34] Susan Blackwell: He acknowledges how many people have come up to him and said, yeah, I tried to start your book and I couldn't.

[29:40] Laura Camien: Yeah.

[29:41] Susan Blackwell: And he was like, so let me tell you how to get into this book.

[29:44] Laura Camien: So he lets you know that the first passages, you're not sure, is this Lincoln who's talking?

[29:53] Susan Blackwell: Is this a different character who's talking?

[29:56] Laura Camien: So he gives just a few clues and tips.

[29:59] Susan Blackwell: Okay.

[30:00] Laura Camien: To let you know how to take it in and what you're about to run into if you approach this book.

[30:07] Susan Blackwell: It was a little bit like Shakespeare in a way.

[30:10] Laura Camien: Once I got into the swing and the shimmy and the flow of it, Laura, I love this book.

[30:17] Susan Blackwell: Oh, I'm so happy.

[30:20] Laura Camien: And I have already gone back to the beginning and started to listen to it again.

[30:25] Susan Blackwell: It's so good.

[30:26] Laura Camien: Okay, I'm definitely gonna listen to it after the book I'm listening to right now.

[30:31] Susan Blackwell: That is awesome.

[30:33] Laura Camien: And I think it's incredible that you have been listening to it this week, unbeknownst to me, because I have been thinking about Lincoln and the Bardo, and in particular the Bardo quite a bit lately.

[30:47] Susan Blackwell: Yeah.

[30:48] Laura Camien: As we record this, we are heading into the final week of Blue Man Group at the Astor Place Theater in New York.

[30:56] Susan Blackwell: And one of the things that I keep mentioning to Wes, just to talk for just one moment about endings and beginnings.

[31:07] Laura Camien: The Bardo is that place between death and rebirth.

[31:14] Susan Blackwell: And so to anyone out there who is feeling this, you know, right now, like something is ending in their life, but the new thing has not yet emerged.

[31:27] Laura Camien: You're just in the Bardo.

[31:28] Susan Blackwell: We're just in the Bardo right now.

[31:31] Laura Camien: We're in the liminal space.

[31:33] Susan Blackwell: We're going to find our way.

[31:35] Laura Camien: And the new beautiful Phoenix is going to rise from the ashes.

[31:40] Susan Blackwell: And for us at the Spark File, I mean, we actually have a new beginning that starts on February 6th.

[31:47] Laura Camien: Our next cohort of Blaze.

[31:50] Susan Blackwell: We sure do.

[31:51] Laura Camien: So if you're in the Bardo and you're like, I need help.

[31:55] Susan Blackwell: How do I get out of the Bardo?

[31:57] Laura Camien: Help me lift up and out.

[32:00] Susan Blackwell: Let me have my rebirth.

[32:02] Laura Camien: Let me get a vision for my future that is positive, that is hopeful, that is energized.

[32:11] Susan Blackwell: And creative.

[32:12] Laura Camien: And creative.

[32:14] Susan Blackwell: Blaze could help people.

[32:16] Laura Camien: Listen, there's a lot of ways to do it.

[32:18] Susan Blackwell: So I didn't mean to make that into a sales pitch.

[32:20] Laura Camien: But while we're here, it is a sales pitch.

[32:23] Susan Blackwell: Come and join us.

[32:24] Laura Camien: I think this is going to air right before, like literally right before.

[32:28] Susan Blackwell: But if you are listening to this around, you know, in the first week of February at any point, give us a channel.

[32:35] Laura Camien: I want to slide under the closing door, just like Indiana Jones.

[32:39] Susan Blackwell: Oh my God, yes.

[32:40] Laura Camien: It is shaping up to be a remarkable group of creatives and humans, really warm, wonderful people who are making all different kinds of things.

[32:50] Susan Blackwell: I gotta say, Susan, and I'm just gonna be like, I don't know.

[32:54] Laura Camien: I don't want us can we take credit for it or not?

[32:58] Susan Blackwell: I don't know.

[32:59] Laura Camien: But somehow the most remarkable people always show up.

[32:59] Susan Blackwell: Always show up because I hear us talking right before every cohort, and we're like, how is this the most extraordinary group of people?

[33:09] Laura Camien: And we felt that last time.

[33:09] Susan Blackwell: And we felt that last time.

[33:14] Laura Camien: It is like a magnet for really kind, really socially and emotionally intelligent, um, self-aware, talented, visionary, like people who have a vision for something that they want to create and just need some support in making it happen.

[33:38] Susan Blackwell: And if you're listening to this right now and you're like, well, damn ladies, that's not me.

[33:44] Laura Camien: We disagree.

[33:45] Susan Blackwell: It's you.

[33:45] Laura Camien: It's you.

[33:47] Susan Blackwell: It's you too.

[33:47] Laura Camien: It's you too.

[33:49] Susan Blackwell: That's the thing, because all the people that we like what we just described, none of those people would describe themselves that way.

[33:57] Laura Camien: Oh no.

[33:58] Susan Blackwell: No.

[33:59] Laura Camien: You're right.

[34:00] Susan Blackwell: But you're right.

[34:00] Laura Camien: But because they're, yeah, they're also fairly humble.

[34:02] Susan Blackwell: Yeah.

[34:03] Laura Camien: So you're right.

[34:03] Susan Blackwell: You're right.

[34:04] Laura Camien: It's extraordinary.

[34:05] Susan Blackwell: But please come join us.

[34:06] Laura Camien: Come join us.

[34:07] Susan Blackwell: And if you want more information, go to thesparkfile.com.

[34:10] Laura Camien: And there's links to the Blaze info page, and there's links if you want to be with us to talk about what you might work on in Blaze.

[34:20] Susan Blackwell: Yeah.

[34:20] Laura Camien: Give us a holler.

[34:21] Susan Blackwell: Give us a holler.

[34:21] Laura Camien: And friends, whether or not Blaze is right for you right now, some other time, we have some really fun stuff in store for this year for 2025.

[34:34] Susan Blackwell: We have decided.

[34:35] Laura Camien: We are keeping our chins up, we're keeping our eyes on the prize, we're focusing on community, we're focusing on creativity, and we're leaning into the power of both of those things.

[34:47] Susan Blackwell: And when you combine creativity and community, how like mind-blowingly powerful it can be.

[34:54] Laura Camien: Yeah.

[34:54] Susan Blackwell: What good we might do in the world this year.

[34:56] Laura Camien: Yeah.

[34:57] Susan Blackwell: So keep an eye out.

[34:58] Laura Camien: We've got things up our sleeves.

[34:59] Susan Blackwell: So stick with us.

[35:00] Laura Camien: And um, we promise you a season six that comes far sooner than season five did.

[35:08] Susan Blackwell: Did we mention B Plus Work Out the Door?

[35:10] Laura Camien: I think that's it.

[35:11] Susan Blackwell: This season of the Spark File was made on the lands of the Lenape and the Mohican people.

[35:18] Laura Camien: And as always, we hope that it put a bunch of sparks in your file.

[35:22] Susan Blackwell: Listen and listen to me carefully. If there's a spark you'd like us to explore, or if you'd like to learn more about how to coach with us to accomplish your big creative goals, you can email getcreative@thesparkfile.com or you can reach us through our website, thesparkfile.com.

[35:40] Laura Camien: We'll even happily take your feedback.

[35:42] Susan Blackwell: But you know the price of admission.

[35:44] Laura Camien: Friends, first you have to share a creative risk that you have taken recently.

[35:49] Susan Blackwell: You can follow us on social at the Spark File and be sure to subscribe, rate, and five-star review this podcast.

[35:56] Laura Camien: Believe us when we tell you, it really helps other listeners to find us.

[35:59] Susan Blackwell: Also, if you like this podcast, we hope you'll share it with people that you love.

[36:03] Laura Camien: And if you didn't like it, my God, here we are, five seasons deep.

[36:10] Susan Blackwell: And you're just still sitting over there, just glowing like a hot ember of resentment.

[36:16] Laura Camien: Make a change.

[36:18] Susan Blackwell: You can make a change.

[36:19] Laura Camien: Get out of the Bardo.

[36:21] Susan Blackwell: That's right.

[36:22] Laura Camien: Friends, if something lifts you up and gets your creative sparks flying, we are writing you a forever permission slip to make that thing that's been knocking at your door.

[36:31] Susan Blackwell: It's your turn to take that spark and fan it into a flame.

[36:36] Laura Camien: You know, you gotta take it and make it.

[36:43] Susan Blackwell: Make it, bye friends.

[36:43] Laura Camien: When I boge into something that inspires me, I dump it in the spark files.

[36:52] Susan Blackwell: Could be something that I wanna make or how I wanna be.

[36:57] Laura Camien: I'll pump it in the spark files.

[37:02] Susan Blackwell: I jump into my spark files.

[37:07] Laura Camien: Let's open up the spark files.