This transcript was automatically generated and might contain errors.

[0:32] Susan Blackwell: Let's open up the spark file.

[0:37] Laura Camien: Welcome to the spark file, where we believe that everyone is creative, but smart creative people don't go it alone.

[0:43] Susan Blackwell: I'm Laura Camien and I'm Susan Blackwell, and we are creativity coaches who help people clarify and accomplish their creative goals.

[0:52] Laura Camien: Know that just by listening to this podcast, you're joining a warm and wonderful clan of creatives.

[0:58] Susan Blackwell: But hold up, you may be asking yourself, what exactly is a spark file?

[1:02] Laura Camien: Well, a spark file is a place where you consistently collect all of your inspirations and fascinations.

[1:10] Susan Blackwell: Every episode, we're gonna reach into our sparkfiles and exchange some sparks.

[1:15] Laura Camien: And from time to time, we're gonna talk to some folks who spark us too.

[1:19] Susan Blackwell: And your mission, should you choose to accept it, is to take some of those sparks of inspiration and make something of your own.

[1:26] Laura Camien: So without further ado, let's open up the Sparkfile.

[1:35] Susan Blackwell: You know, I love podcast day.

[1:36] Laura Camien: I know it's podcast day, it's super fun.

[1:39] Susan Blackwell: I love it.

[1:40] Laura Camien: I looked at my calendar and I was like, I have a really full day.

[1:43] Susan Blackwell: And it ends with podcasting.

[1:46] Laura Camien: So come on.

[1:47] Susan Blackwell: Can I, before we jump in to your beautiful, beautiful spark, I wanna share something with you and with our listeners.

[1:55] Laura Camien: Okay.

[1:56] Susan Blackwell: This is an invention that is was created by a spark filer named Jess Edelstein.

[2:03] Laura Camien: Oh it's called MOOCs.

[2:05] Susan Blackwell: You can't see it, listener, but I'm holding it up and showing it to Laura Camien.

[2:10] Laura Camien: And it is for people like myself who are a touch lactose intolerant.

[2:17] Susan Blackwell: And she has she's this is not her first product that she's invented.

[2:24] Laura Camien: But oh my god, it may be the best.

[2:28] Susan Blackwell: You have told me this was life-changing, and I've passed it on to my lactose intolerant friends.

[2:35] Laura Camien: Okay.

[2:36] Susan Blackwell: So instead of taking like a chalky tablet, you it comes in this really cool, it's so good, it's so substantial, but it comes in this little um squirt bottle.

[2:47] Laura Camien: Yeah, it's like a pot.

[2:48] Susan Blackwell: I just literally pump it into my mouth, one, two, three, four.

[2:52] Laura Camien: It tastes great.

[2:54] Susan Blackwell: Amazing.

[2:55] Laura Camien: The flavors are great.

[2:56] Susan Blackwell: My favorite is vanilla.

[3:01] Laura Camien: There is a vanilla flavor that is so good, and I'm trying to take in a lot of protein, and as a result, I'm eating a lot of cottage cheese and I'm eating a lot of yogurt.

[3:14] Susan Blackwell: And so I am taking this.

[3:16] Laura Camien: I'm taking moops, like it's my job, and it's holding me together.

[3:20] Susan Blackwell: Listen, it's so good.

[3:21] Laura Camien: You are the moops ambassador.

[3:24] Susan Blackwell: To be honest, Susan, I didn't even know you were lactose intolerant.

[3:28] Laura Camien: Well, it's just it when I'm taking in that much dairy, you know, it's just it really makes my tummy rumble.

[3:37] Susan Blackwell: I had no idea.

[3:38] Laura Camien: And this has this has brought us closer.

[3:42] Susan Blackwell: I feel like I've learned something new about it.

[3:45] Laura Camien: Listen, but I really want to shout out this.

[3:47] Susan Blackwell: I this is not a paid endorsement.

[3:49] Laura Camien: I bought my own moops.

[3:51] Susan Blackwell: This were these were not gifted.

[3:52] Laura Camien: No, but you are angling for the moobs ambassador job.

[3:55] Susan Blackwell: And I think you're first in line.

[3:57] Laura Camien: I really do.

[3:58] Susan Blackwell: First, first moops influencer.

[4:00] Laura Camien: It's so good.

[4:01] Susan Blackwell: The packaging is so cute.

[4:02] Laura Camien: It's so satisfying.

[4:03] Susan Blackwell: I'm so proud of this.

[4:04] Laura Camien: I recommend it highly enough.

[4:06] Susan Blackwell: And if I didn't feel that way, I would not be saying these words.

[4:09] Laura Camien: But I freaking love it.

[4:12] Susan Blackwell: You would keep quiet, is what you would do.

[4:14] Laura Camien: I know that about you.

[4:16] Susan Blackwell: And do I love you have shouted it from the mountaintops?

[4:20] Laura Camien: And I I think that it's incredible.

[4:22] Susan Blackwell: I love it.

[4:23] Laura Camien: I think Jess is incredible.

[4:24] Susan Blackwell: We love Jess.

[4:25] Laura Camien: And so it's a great product.

[4:27] Susan Blackwell: It's so great when you can like really endorse something full force, full force, 100% spark file approved.

[4:36] Laura Camien: And when you're trying to eat healthy, I'm trying to eat healthy.

[4:39] Susan Blackwell: This is the best tasting thing I eat all day.

[4:41] Laura Camien: Is this boobs right here?

[4:44] Susan Blackwell: I'm like, I get my moops.

[4:46] Laura Camien: My moops shot.

[4:48] Susan Blackwell: It's so good.

[4:49] Laura Camien: It's gonna be its own dessert.

[4:51] Susan Blackwell: It's gonna be its own little thing.

[4:53] Laura Camien: You could have like just a little thimble of moops.

[4:55] Susan Blackwell: It doesn't have anything to do with whether you're lactose intolerant.

[4:58] Laura Camien: Just have some moops.

[4:59] Susan Blackwell: Moops three ways.

[5:00] Laura Camien: It's so good.

[5:01] Susan Blackwell: Anyway, I understand that you have a spark for me.

[5:07] Laura Camien: Turn, I've got a spark for you.

[5:08] Susan Blackwell: And once again, I've got a spark that's too big for these pants.

[5:13] Laura Camien: I've got an extra large turtle and an extra small shell.

[5:18] Susan Blackwell: But I'm gonna put it out there and we're gonna do our best.

[5:22] Laura Camien: I'm just gonna I'm gonna pull out a few concepts that we can explore together, and then everybody can go off and do their extended studies on their own.

[5:32] Susan Blackwell: How does that sound?

[5:34] Laura Camien: Sounds great.

[5:35] Susan Blackwell: And as you like to say, Susan, it's the very best kind of homework because we will never know whether or not any of our listeners actually did it.

[5:44] Laura Camien: The best.

[5:45] Susan Blackwell: So, Suze, I am sparked today and most days by Rick Rubin's book called The Creative Act, a Way of Being.

[5:58] Laura Camien: Aw, hells yes.

[6:00] Susan Blackwell: You've heard me talk about this before, but I'm gonna get I'm gonna get specific and jump into some things today.

[6:07] Laura Camien: So this book came out last year.

[6:09] Susan Blackwell: I jumped on it immediately, because you know I love a good creativity book.

[6:16] Laura Camien: And of course, Rick Rubin has his own unique perspective on all of it, but I was really excited to read it and to feel so aligned in so many ways.

[6:27] Susan Blackwell: Like it's very validating to hear someone with his experience.

[6:32] Laura Camien: Um decades and decades and decades of of experience describe so many things that we talk about like in a very similar way.

[6:41] Susan Blackwell: So there's so many gems of inspiration in this book.

[6:46] Laura Camien: It really balances this spiritual and mystical side of creativity with the practical side of creativity.

[6:56] Susan Blackwell: He's got great ways of explaining what happens during the creative process.

[7:01] Laura Camien: And as you know, we believe like there is something magical to the act of creation, without a doubt, but it's also wonderful to parse out the parts of it that are learnable so that we can invite in the magical.

[7:18] Susan Blackwell: As always, one of our intentions is to help other people feel not so alone on the journey.

[7:25] Laura Camien: So, with your consent, dear listener, I would like to make a bold recommendation.

[7:30] Susan Blackwell: Not only should you dive into this book as soon as possible, I would recommend specifically that you get the audio version.

[7:39] Laura Camien: And if you like to go on long walks as I do, just put it on, put it in your ears, and let yourself go into a meditative state with Rick Rubin.

[7:52] Susan Blackwell: It is transcendent.

[7:55] Laura Camien: It really is.

[7:56] Susan Blackwell: I mean, his voice, like he speaks about creativity in a way that many of us feel creativity.

[8:09] Laura Camien: Like it's almost spiritual, his voice is so clear and reverent.

[8:16] Susan Blackwell: There's even like a little gong in between each chapter.

[8:20] Laura Camien: I actually might go so far as to say, don't listen while driving.

[8:24] Susan Blackwell: Like it has that kind of like it's so meditative, you may fall into a trance.

[8:29] Laura Camien: For me, anyway, when I would be walking to it, I would hear something of his, and then my mind would go on a journey, and then I would come back and be like, wait a second, hold up.

[8:40] Susan Blackwell: I think I missed half of this chapter because I went my mind went somewhere.

[8:46] Laura Camien: You know what I mean?

[8:47] Susan Blackwell: Yeah.

[8:48] Laura Camien: All right.

[8:48] Susan Blackwell: So today I want to do a deep dive into my favorite topic, which is creativity, with my favorite partner in crime, creative crime, which is Susan Blackwell.

[8:48] Laura Camien: Creative crime.

[9:03] Susan Blackwell: Creative crime.

[9:04] Laura Camien: Oops.

[9:04] Susan Blackwell: I'm a repeat offender.

[9:06] Laura Camien: What a nerd.

[9:07] Susan Blackwell: I'm such a nerd.

[9:08] Laura Camien: Okay.

[9:08] Susan Blackwell: I better move on to Rick Rubin because I'm a weirdo.

[9:12] Laura Camien: All right.

[9:13] Susan Blackwell: So let's just start with who is Rick Rubin.

[9:16] Laura Camien: In case you're wondering how and why does this guy know so much about creativity?

[9:21] Susan Blackwell: If you're not familiar with Rick Rubin from his very own website, you can learn that he is a nine-time Grammy-winning producer.

[9:30] Laura Camien: He was named one of the 100 most influential people in the world by Time magazine and the most successful producer in any genre by Rolling Stone.

[9:40] Susan Blackwell: He has collaborated with artists from Tom Petty to Adele, Johnny Cash to the Red Hot Chili Peppers, Beastie Boys.

[9:49] Laura Camien: Beasties I was gonna say Susie's favorite, Beastie Boys to Slayer.

[9:55] Susan Blackwell: Yeah, my No, I'm kidding.

[9:58] Laura Camien: Um I'm kidding.

[10:00] Susan Blackwell: Although I respect Slayer.

[10:02] Laura Camien: You love Slayer.

[10:04] Susan Blackwell: I couldn't name a song of theirs, but I do respect them.

[10:07] Laura Camien: But he the breadth of his work.

[10:10] Susan Blackwell: Even I haven't even mentioned Kanye West to the Strokes, System of a Down to Jay-Z.

[10:17] Laura Camien: I mean, it's just amazing.

[10:19] Susan Blackwell: He's amazing.

[10:20] Laura Camien: He's amazing.

[10:21] Susan Blackwell: So he's very well versed in bringing a creative expression to life, like from the germ of an idea to its full expression.

[10:30] Laura Camien: And his forte has been in record producing and music very specifically, but the principles that he talks about apply to all kinds of creative expression.

[10:40] Susan Blackwell: So I'm just gonna get into a few highlights here.

[10:44] Laura Camien: First up, I love how Rick Rubin describes the fact that everyone is creative.

[10:50] Susan Blackwell: He likens it to nature and how nature is continually creating and recreating, and so are we.

[10:58] Laura Camien: He says this: regardless of whether or not we're formally making art, we are all living as artists.

[11:06] Susan Blackwell: We perceive, filter, and collect data, then curate an experience for ourselves and others based on this information set.

[11:15] Laura Camien: Whether we do this consciously or unconsciously, by the mere fact of being alive, we are active participants in the ongoing process of creation.

[11:32] Laura Camien: A way of perceiving, a practice of paying attention, refining our sensitivity to tune into the more subtle notes, looking for what draws us in and what pushes us away, noticing what feeling tones arise and where they lead.

[11:50] Laura Camien: Attuned choice by attuned choice.

[11:58] Laura Camien: You exist as a creative being in a creative universe, a singular work of art.

[12:16] Laura Camien: How you mark your days, friends, this is it.

[12:19] Susan Blackwell: Yes.

[12:20] Laura Camien: How you spend your precious time on earth, crafting the next chapter of your life so that it is as full of joy and wonder and aliveness as possible.

[12:33] Laura Camien: This is the most worthy creative project we can imagine.

[12:39] Laura Camien: And the thing is, Rick Rubin points this out.

[12:44] Laura Camien: We can do this consciously or unconsciously, but either way, we are creating our lives.

[12:51] Laura Camien: I'm a big proponent of being as conscious as possible, making attuned choice after attuned choice so that you get to experience as much of the goodness in life as possible.

[13:05] Laura Camien: And again, he talks about creativity as a way of being in the world, meaning it's not about the output.

[13:15] Laura Camien: It's not as much about what you have accomplished or made.

[13:19] Laura Camien: It's about the way you move through the world with curiosity and openness and attention.

[13:27] Laura Camien: And it really reminds me of the way that we talk about the spark generation phase in the creative process, Suze.

[13:34] Laura Camien: Like we're always talking about it being a state of mind, like remaining open and present to life.

[13:42] Laura Camien: It's a way of moving in the world where you're present to the ideas and the images and the inspiration all around you.

[13:54] Laura Camien: Broadening our practice of awareness is a choice we can make at any moment.

[14:00] Laura Camien: It is not a search, though it is stoked by a curiosity or hunger, a hunger to see beautiful things, hear beautiful sounds, feel deeper sensations, to learn and to be fascinated and surprised on a continual basis.

[14:28] Laura Camien: All right, we've told many of our clients this, Suze.

[14:30] Laura Camien: I'm not sure if we've talked about this on the podcast or not.

[14:34] Laura Camien: But forgive me if I'm repeating, friends.

[14:37] Laura Camien: But when we first began dreaming up the Spark File podcast, it was born out of us questioning what we want the next chapter of our lives to look like.

[14:49] Laura Camien: Specifically, we believed that we could create the lives we wanted to be living.

[14:55] Laura Camien: And on the one hand, we knew we wanted to put to use all of the creative skills we had acquired over our lifetime by helping other people achieve their creative goals.

[15:07] Laura Camien: But it was not entirely like altruistic and unselfish, because we also knew that it was important to us that we continue to grow and learn, engage our brains and be inspired.

[15:23] Laura Camien: And we wanted to craft a way of life where the mindset of curiosity and inspiration was built into the fabric of our everyday.

[15:34] Laura Camien: Like this podcast.

[15:36] Susan Blackwell: Like this podcast.

[15:37] Laura Camien: That's it.

[15:38] Laura Camien: And that's how we came up with the idea of the Spark File.

[15:41] Laura Camien: Like, what if we were always seeking, always bringing our attention to the things that intrigued us, things that expanded our minds or engaged our imaginations?

[15:53] Laura Camien: And what if we shared those inspirations with other people?

[15:57] Laura Camien: Maybe we could multiply and amplify the amount of inspiration in the world and potentially the amount of creative work that gets done.

[16:06] Laura Camien: I mean, that was so thrilling.

[16:08] Laura Camien: The idea of that, the prospect of that was like uh, it was just one of those moments where we were like, yes, that's it.

[16:17] Laura Camien: That if we could live our lives that way every day, we would be fulfilling so much inside of ourselves and encouraging it in others.

[16:29] Laura Camien: So when I read about Rick Rubin saying we can consciously create our lives and we can choose to be in a mindset of receiving the beauty and the sensations in life, I'm just like jumping up and down in my chair, like, yes, yes, yes, yes, you really can.

[16:45] Laura Camien: We have done it.

[16:47] Laura Camien: We are living it.

[16:48] Laura Camien: You can do it, listener, you can do it.

[16:52] Laura Camien: So that got me super juiced, and that's pretty early on in the book.

[16:57] Laura Camien: So, of course, I'm like, I am all in.

[17:01] Laura Camien: Another topic that he covers in various chapters is self-doubt and the various places in the creative process where people tend to get stuck.

[17:12] Laura Camien: And he offers up one of the very best ways that we know how to keep going, and that is to lower the stakes.

[17:12] Laura Camien: Lower the stakes.

[17:24] Laura Camien: He says, and you know I felt this, Susan.

[17:29] Laura Camien: We tend to think that what we're making is the most important thing in our lives, and that it is going to define us for all eternity.

[17:39] Laura Camien: And you know, Susan, I have talked, we have talked about this before.

[17:42] Laura Camien: Like that thought kept me from creating for so long.

[17:47] Susan Blackwell: Uh-huh.

[17:47] Laura Camien: Because I had a friend, air quotes, friend, who read my work, and I think it was maybe only like the second play I'd written.

[17:58] Laura Camien: And I ugh.

[18:02] Laura Camien: She said, Ew, I don't know why you always have to write these like women's stories.

[18:10] Susan Blackwell: Wow.

[18:11] Laura Camien: And I was gutted.

[18:13] Laura Camien: I was so gutted that I could not think of what to say in the moment.

[18:17] Susan Blackwell: Wow.

[18:18] Laura Camien: But as I reflected on it, I was really pissed.

[18:22] Laura Camien: And I wondered like, how many people had said to Sam Shepard, dude, you can't be writing only these stories about dudes?

[18:31] Laura Camien: Like, do you really want to be known for only dudes' stories?

[18:35] Susan Blackwell: I don't think anybody asked Sam Shepard that.

[18:38] Laura Camien: I don't think anybody said, you can't base a whole career just writing about men.

[18:46] Laura Camien: That was such a paralyzing thing for me because the idea of my creative work defining me in a particular way slowed me down.

[19:01] Laura Camien: And what it caused me to do is filter every bit of work that I started through this lens of like, ah, will this work show everything that I'm capable of?

[19:11] Laura Camien: Will it show that I'm funny?

[19:12] Laura Camien: Will it show that I'm smart?

[19:14] Laura Camien: Will it make people feel deeply?

[19:16] Laura Camien: Will it show substance and style?

[19:18] Laura Camien: Will it be life-changing?

[19:21] Laura Camien: I mean, it's an impossible criteria.

[19:24] Laura Camien: It's impossible.

[19:25] Laura Camien: And when I look back on it now, I feel sad because there are so many things I thought about writing and I didn't write them because they did not fill that criteria.

[19:37] Susan Blackwell: Wow.

[19:37] Laura Camien: Obviously, nothing could.

[19:39] Laura Camien: And yet, if I had written all of them individually, instead of just one single play defining me, at this point, a lifetime of work could define me.

[19:52] Susan Blackwell: Do you know what I mean?

[19:54] Laura Camien: I do.

[19:55] Laura Camien: I'm also thinking about Rick Rubin talking about lowering the stakes as a way to free your creative self-expression.

[20:05] Laura Camien: And he is working with I uh high visibility, high stakes artists.

[20:12] Susan Blackwell: Very yes.

[20:14] Laura Camien: And he goes on to say that all of us should consider moving forward.

[20:14] Laura Camien: That all of us should consider moving forward with a more accurate point of view, that it's a small work, it's a beginning.

[20:32] Laura Camien: And the only mission is to complete the project so that you can move on to the next.

[20:37] Laura Camien: The next one is a stepping stone to the following work, and so it continues in productive rhythm for the entirety of your creative life.

[20:46] Laura Camien: So instead of thinking, oh, this piece of work has to represent everything about me, this piece of work only needs to be complete.

[20:54] Laura Camien: And then I'll move on to the next piece of work.

[20:56] Susan Blackwell: That's it.

[20:57] Laura Camien: I'm fascinated by this.

[20:59] Laura Camien: I am fascinated by this in the context of his life.

[21:03] Laura Camien: And I think it's a mindset game that he doesn't get when he's in a studio with Adele and they're making something together.

[21:14] Susan Blackwell: That could really, if you were a certain kind of person, that could really make you quite anxious.

[21:21] Laura Camien: Oh, sure.

[21:22] Laura Camien: That this work has to top my last work.

[21:25] Laura Camien: But if he's decides to be better, the best thing, we're gonna complete the best thing that we can that in this version of Adele and this version of Rick Rubin can complete in this moment.

[21:36] Laura Camien: Just needs to be the expression of who you are and what you're thinking and feeling in this moment.

[21:42] Susan Blackwell: Wow.

[21:42] Laura Camien: And then we'll move on to the next.

[21:44] Laura Camien: And he says it's helpful to see the piece we're working on as an experiment.

[21:50] Susan Blackwell: That's great.

[21:52] Laura Camien: Again, when our coach Jennifer Rosenfeld introduced us to the concept of what if it's all an experiment?

[22:00] Susan Blackwell: Yes.

[22:01] Laura Camien: Years ago, that was a game changer for us because I don't think this will surprise anyone, and I hope you don't mind me speaking for you too.

[22:11] Laura Camien: But we both have a touch of perfectionism in us.

[22:15] Susan Blackwell: Uh-huh.

[22:17] Laura Camien: Uh-huh.

[22:15] Laura Camien: And it can slow us down.

[22:18] Laura Camien: And thinking of building the Spark File as an experiment was such a gift.

[22:24] Laura Camien: It gave us permission to try things, to let things not be perfect, to learn things, and then integrate the learnings, which I think we always have.

[22:34] Laura Camien: Like we really try to listen to our clients, listen to, you know, people that feedback from things that people have worked with us on, and always like fine-tuning and fine-tuning.

[22:46] Laura Camien: And it's a lifesaver, it's a game changer, friends. If you can adopt this idea for your creative work, you're guaranteed. I promise you, you will see huge leaps and bounds in your creative life.

[23:00] Laura Camien: If you can see it all as an experiment, turn down the stakes, lower the stakes. All you know, I think about this a lot, and I've said this in some of our classes, but like the sole purpose, the only thing a first draft has to do is exist. That's it. That is the goal of a first draft is to exist. Lower those stakes. Your first draft does not have to be the thing you think you're handing in to a publisher or the thing you think that's going to open on Broadway tomorrow. Like those are such extreme big, big, big pressure situations that will stop you from even putting the next little blurb on the page.

[23:43] Laura Camien: Yeah. Lower those stakes. Lower those stakes. So yes, I think I feel like with the Spark File, probably me personally, probably the first time. Number one, it's like probably the thing I'm most proud of, but also it's the first time that I allowed myself to think of something as an experiment. I've got all these scripts and things that I like, well, it's not everything. It's not every possible thing it could be.

[24:43] Laura Camien: He says the audience comes last. Meaning, first and foremost, it needs to please you. And by doing that, you are likely to find your audience. The personal is universal. So rather than trying to predict what some imaginary person is going to think of your work, make it so you love it, that you would change nothing about it, and then release it into the world with no expectation of outcome.

[25:15] Laura Camien: This reminds me, Laura, of when we were leading a workshop for the Miranda Family Fellows at the beautiful United Palace. Oh my gosh. In that uh sitting in that big circle and discussion with Lynn Manuel Miranda. And he was talking about how it the song needs to move you first. It needs to make you cry first, it needs to touch you first.

[25:40] Susan Blackwell: That's right. Long before you are even concerned about what impact it's going to have on anybody else. And if it doesn't do that, like go no further. Like it ha it has to move you.

[25:51] Laura Camien: Yeah. And for it to do that, you've got to get in touch with your likes and your dislikes and what you know what resonates for you. And the idea of then releasing it with no attachment to the outcome, that's an idea we talk a lot about.

[26:08] Susan Blackwell: Yeah. Releasing the need for a particular outcome. In the Spark File, we talk about that. And oftentimes we talk about it specifically as it relates to like reaching out to a person or asking for something like a collaboration, et cetera. We believe you should extend the kindest, most honest ask that you can, and then release the attachment to the outcome.

[26:32] Laura Camien: Yep. But this can and should apply to releasing your work into the world as well. Rubin writes when you believe the work before you is the single piece that will forever define you. It's difficult to let it go. It's too much. It's too much. He says the urge for perfection is overwhelming. Releasing your work into the world becomes easier when we remember that each piece can never be a total reflection of us. It can only be a reflection of who we are in this moment.

[27:10] Laura Camien: This idea that the work is for you, a reflection of you in this moment, and Rubin's encouragement to get to know what you like, trust your intuition. That is something so aligned with what we believe in. At the Spark File, our goal is for you to become more of you, for you to become the artist that you were meant to be.

[27:38] Susan Blackwell: Yes. And that is different than the artist that Susan Blackwell is, or the artist that I am. We're not trying to get you to do or be or express anything other than what you were meant to express in a way that only you could express it.

[27:55] Laura Camien: Yeah. I think that's a that has changed a lot over time. I think about the training that we received when we were coming up through acting school, et cetera, where it was sort of like we're gonna break you down so we can rebuild you. And we want to rebuild you in a model that is going to be very appealing and castable. So it's going to fit into a predetermined form or type.

[28:19] Susan Blackwell: Yeah. And I think that there is much more emphasis. I hope there's much more emphasis now on bringing forward the most unique, self-expressed version of yourself as an artist.

[28:34] Laura Camien: I hope there's more of that, Suze. I think we may be more attuned to those messages in the world because that's what we look for and who we are.

[28:42] Susan Blackwell: Yeah. Um, but you can learn technique at any number of schools or any class if you want to learn technique. But learning to find your unique voice and your own point of view is its own journey.

[29:04] Laura Camien: Yeah. And I would say that it is an essential part of the creative process. And you can layer on technique on top of that, which is great, but that you being the most you that you can be and expressing yourself in the way that you were meant to, and that only you can goes a long way. A long, long way.

[29:31] Susan Blackwell: And that's one of the reasons why our feedback process is focused on the artist. Like the artist decides what they need, yes, what feedback they're looking for, and it is our job to support them. It's not about following our instructions, it's about them following their own intuition.

[29:50] Laura Camien: Rick Rubin says, We are dealing in a magic realm. Nobody knows why or how it works. And I think that is the truth. If you're looking for someone to tell you exactly how to express yourself, you won't find a satisfying answer because the answer is within you.

[30:13] Susan Blackwell: What you really have control over is your own mindset, the time and space that you dedicate to your creative vision, and the mentors and supportive community you surround yourself with. That is what you can control. And I will leave it there for now. There is so much more in this book, The Creative Act by Rick Rubin. I highly recommend it. Take a look or take a listen. It's like a little gift to your creative spirit.

[30:46] Laura Camien: Laura, what a great spark. And I have admired this book. It looks like a piece of modern art.

[30:53] Susan Blackwell: Yep, which I love. Yep. 100%. And it's all just so validating for the artist to, it's both validating and encouraging, and the hardest thing that most artists know how to do, which is follow their own unique intuition and their own unique creative voice.

[31:16] Laura Camien: I love this. What a great spark. I'm so happy to share. It makes me very happy and um truly, truly, it's all part of like making sure that none of us feel alone on this on this crazy journey. Like there are pieces of this creative um process that can be learned by all of us. And the rest of it that is unlearnable, we can simply support each other in it.

[31:45] Susan Blackwell: Yeah, I love magical and the mystical magic realm. Yeah, I love that. Oh, Laura. Good spark. All right. That's it. This episode of The Spark File was made on the lands of the Lenape and the Mohican people.

[32:00] Laura Camien: And as always, we hope this put another bunch of sparks in your file. Listen, if there's a spark you'd like us to explore, or if you'd like to learn more about how to coach with us to accomplish your creative goals, email get creative at thesparkfile.com, or you can reach us through our website, thesparkfile.com.

[32:19] Susan Blackwell: We will even happily take your feedback. But you know the price of admission. First, we would like you to share a creative risk that you have taken recently.

[32:29] Laura Camien: You can follow us on social at the Spark File and be sure to subscribe right at five-star review this podcast. If you take that little action, it really helps other listeners to find us. Also, if you liked this podcast, we hope you'll share it with people that you love.

[32:44] Susan Blackwell: And if you didn't like it, if it made you go, ooh, ew, ew. Then trust that intuition. Listen to another podcast, lower the stakes. Gong.

[32:58] Laura Camien: If something lights you up and gets your creative sparks flying, we're writing you a forever permission slip to make that thing that's been knocking at your door. It's your turn to take that spark and fan it into a flame.

[33:13] Susan Blackwell: You know, you gotta take it and make it when I bump into something that inspires me. I dump it in my spark files. Could be something that I wanna make or how I wanna be. I pump it in my spark files. I jump into my spark files. Let's open up the spark fire.