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[0:00] Alan Seales: Welcome to The Theatre Podcast, intimate personal conversations with theatre's biggest names. I'm Alan Seales and this is the quick little reflection section for our episode here with Michael Lee Brown. For those of you who don't know, Michael Lee Brown is the alternate in Dear Evan Hansen. And for those of you who don't know what an alternate is, it's basically an understudy or a swing, if you will, that has scheduled performances that they always go in on. And in talking with Michael, I was, gosh, I was so impressed. I mean, I've talked with swings and I've talked with... I haven't actually talked to alternates before. I've talked to swings, I've talked to understudies. And I've always been impressed with understudies and swings because they have to often know the tracks, the movements, the choreography, the songs for multiple characters.

If they're not understudying like one of the main principal characters, then like a swing will have sometimes four, five, six or more character tracks they have to know. And then in a moment's notice, they have to go in if someone gets sick. Or I've even heard stories where Beth Leavel in one of our previous episodes here talks about, you know, minutes before curtain, she got sick and vomited in the wings. And so her understudy had to go on and they didn't even have a costume ready yet at that point. But anyway, yeah, Michael Lee Brown, incredibly great conversation here with this guy. Also, happy birthday. He just turned 26 yesterday. So happy birthday to you, Michael, if you're listening. Gosh, you guys, I cannot go on about how impressed I am with this guy.

He's a singer, he's a songwriter. He started out as an understudy, moved into the alternate and still understudies other roles. So he's understudying Connor and Jared as well. So sometimes he goes on for the two of them when not scheduled to go in as Evan Hansen, but very talented, very impressive. Give it a listen. And as always, let us know what you think. Give me some feedback at theatre underscore podcast on Instagram and Twitter. You can email me feedback at the theatre podcast.com. Listen and subscribe everywhere you find podcasts. Please give a rating. I really read those. I love those. It helps the podcast grow to continue to get ratings. Yeah, sit back, enjoy. Enjoy your commute if that's where you happen to be listening now. And here's Michael Lee Brown.

[2:46] Alan Seales: Today we have actor, singer and songwriter and the alternate Evan Hansen in Dear Evan Hansen. Welcome, Michael Lee Brown. How are you doing today?

[2:52] Michael Lee Brown: How are you doing? Thanks so much for having me.

[2:54] Alan Seales: No problem. And actually, this is the magic of time travel recording this podcast. We'll release this. This is getting released on January 15th. Yesterday was your birthday.

[3:03] Michael Lee Brown: Yes, it was.

[3:04] Alan Seales: Happy birthday.

[3:05] Michael Lee Brown: Thank you so much.

[3:06] Alan Seales: You're now 26 magically.

[3:08] Michael Lee Brown: Oh, yes. Yes. I always try to keep that ambiguous, but it's true.

[3:13] Alan Seales: Oh, sorry. You're 27 or something.

[3:16] Michael Lee Brown: Yeah, 27.

[3:17] Alan Seales: Yeah, that's all right.

[3:18] Michael Lee Brown: I'm 17.

[3:19] Alan Seales: Right. So you're 17. Well, you play in high school.

[3:22] Michael Lee Brown: Yeah, I do. I play high school senior.

[3:23] Alan Seales: Yeah. So Evan Hansen's a high school senior, but I want to go back, back, back to the beginning. And I want you to tell me, where did you grow up? What are your humble beginnings?

[3:33] Michael Lee Brown: Oh, of course. No. So I grew up in Bucks County, Pennsylvania, so a suburb of Philadelphia, so not too far away. I grew up going to, taking the train in and out of New York City a lot because it's very close. Do voice lessons, acting lessons and stuff like that. I actually went to high school in New Jersey called the Pennington School. It was a great school. It was like where I grew up in Bucks County. You're kind of like on the border between Jersey and Pennsylvania. So kind of felt like the same state in a way, you know. But yeah, so I started out there and actually lived in LA for a little bit of time, kind of a couple of months here and there, culmination probably about two years altogether. Did some things out there when I was younger. And I came to college here at Marymount Manhattan College when college time came around. So now New York City is home for me for sure.

[4:18] Alan Seales: And when did you get involved with the musical side of life?

[4:22] Michael Lee Brown: Yeah, so I grew up, my family's always been very much in the arts. My brother was a great songwriter, is a great songwriter. He grew up playing for a bunch of different bands. He opened for bands like Avril Lavigne, Pink and Aaron Carter and who else? A bunch of other people. And so he'd play all these different arenas in the area and different venues and stuff. And so that's kind of when I got into songwriting, was listening to him so much all the time because he's eight years older than I am. So him always practicing at home and everything, I really got to learn how to write songs and what music is like. And so I probably started that about when I was about 10 years old, writing songs and getting into music.

[5:00] Alan Seales: So you were writing at 10?

[5:01] Michael Lee Brown: Yeah, kind of just basic, very, very basic, but learning guitar, getting the concept of how writing works and things like that. And just kind of absorbing how songs are made and getting into pop rock style music, which is what I really love. So I really love musicals that do that. Hence Dear Evan Hansen, that's pop rock music, which is great.

[5:19] Alan Seales: And your parents, did they support, did they do the same thing and kind of lead you both in that direction?

[5:25] Michael Lee Brown: Yeah, no. And also my sister too, she's a ballerina. I didn't say that, she was a ballet dancer. So yeah, that was kind of, my two siblings are both very artsy, which is cool. And so we always supported each other, which is fun, going to each other's events and shows and concerts, et cetera. But my, no, so my mom, she did theater in college. She was always very much in the theater and she's a great singer and a great actress and stuff like that. And she used to take acting classes on her own when she would go to New York and stuff from growing up. So that was cool. And she did some community theater and stuff. And my dad, he actually, he owns a travel company, which sent kids to Disney World. So that was like his thing. So he, you know, kind of obviously creative and stuff, but they not really working in the arts anyway, but both very much supported it for sure.

[6:07] Alan Seales: How often, how often did you go to Disney?

[6:09] Michael Lee Brown: Oh my gosh, like three, four times a year. Because it was all like, because of the company worked for, it was, you know, it was easy. It was great. So we went to like all the holidays a lot of the time. So it was fun. I've been a big Disney fan because of that. My, my grandpa, my grandfather helped build Disney World. He was, he was an estimateer, they called him.

[6:26] Alan Seales: An estimateer?

[6:27] Michael Lee Brown: Yeah. So he was part of the accounting team.

[6:28] Alan Seales: Oh, like an imagineer was the other, that's the one, yeah, the estimateer.

[6:32] Michael Lee Brown: He was an estimateer. He would figure out how much all the rides would cost when like the engineers would come and say like, here's all our fancy stuff. Keep it within budget.

[6:41] Alan Seales: Oh wow.

[6:42] Michael Lee Brown: So he would try to do that. So he knows all the secrets of how, knew all the secrets of how everything was made and everything. And he told me, yeah, he told me once he would tell me and he never did. So that's how the secrets are done.

[6:55] Alan Seales: Oh, that's amazing. That's so cool.

[6:56] Michael Lee Brown: Yeah. So they, they retired in Orlando and I went, I'm just, I love Disney too.

[7:00] Alan Seales: Oh my gosh. Yeah.

[7:01] Michael Lee Brown: Like tiny, tiny, we were in Florida and we went multiple times a year.

[7:05] Alan Seales: Yeah. It's the best. It's such a great place to go. I know even like for, I remember they had different, different, like for engineering kids who wanted to learn about that. They take different workshops there. Like they'd ride Space Mountain with the lights on and you'd see how like slow it actually is, but it feels fast with the dark. So it's so cool. All that stuff that works. That's a creative place. It's cool.

[7:23] Alan Seales: I like, I like the effort they put into the shows too.

[7:26] Michael Lee Brown: Oh yeah.

[7:27] Alan Seales: That influenced me as a kid.

[7:28] Michael Lee Brown: Oh definitely.

[7:29] Alan Seales: To want to perform and be like that.

[7:30] Michael Lee Brown: Oh for sure. Yeah. And all the musicals, I mean the movie musicals they had, which were very, you know, the music was amazing. Like Alan Menken's music and stuff like that. Even Stephen Schwartz wrote a lot for like Hunchback and all those things. And it's just so cool. And the music was amazing. But yeah, I saw Lion King. That was such a, you know, impactful show. And yeah, there's so many, it's amazing.

[7:48] Alan Seales: And when did you start? So you said you were starting songwriting at 10.

[7:53] Michael Lee Brown: Yeah.

[7:54] Alan Seales: And you were writing, what were you writing about?

[7:55] Michael Lee Brown: Oh my gosh.

[7:56] Alan Seales: As a 10 year old.

[7:57] Michael Lee Brown: I don't even know, to be honest. I wish I would have kept a lot of them, you know.

[8:00] Alan Seales: Oh, you don't have your old journal?

[8:01] Michael Lee Brown: No. Those journals, I, they probably couldn't even read them, you know, with how I spelled at the time. But no, I don't know. I guess just about, probably, it was probably very, very simple day to day things at school and stuff like that. But I, you know, with the songwriting, of course, it was always that and the acting for me, which is always really loved acting. And so I guess probably when I saw my first Broadway show, which I believe was Phantom of the Opera around that time. And then listening to the albums like Rent and those musicals is really what got me into musical theater. But I started getting into acting and with the singer songwriting thing, about 10. And my mom would take me to Philadelphia and New York, write audition, like commercials and stuff like that, did little thing like industrials and things like that, kind of getting my feet wet and auditioning and everything. And always being taken out of school at that age to do that.

[9:04] Michael Lee Brown: So it was fun.

[9:05] Alan Seales: Yeah, it was fun, you know. And so, yeah, so, and then, you know, it just kind of, it's interesting, like when starting that young, you really kind of get an idea of the, of the things you obviously, anything you do, the things you like to do, the type of shows you like to perform, the type of material you like to read and perform and everything. And so that's what I really think was so cool about that was kind of starting that young to kind of understand that, which is cool. You know, and then, and then eventually, like took me to LA, where then I continued to audition out there and kind of had representation out there and kind of learned how LA is very different than New York and everything.

[9:35] Michael Lee Brown: Oh yeah, very much.

[9:36] Alan Seales: Yeah, very, very different. And that was kind of, that was kind of cool to get that, really understand the business side of it at a young age, which is cool. And I appreciate my parents, parents for that, for supporting that, which is cool.

[9:43] Alan Seales: Well, I guess the business side of it, that's very, that's very interesting. You mentioned that because I've, I used to perform myself and when, gosh, I, I got a computer science degree.

[9:56] Michael Lee Brown: Oh, wow.

[9:57] Alan Seales: So that was my fallback.

[9:59] Michael Lee Brown: Yeah.

[9:59] Alan Seales: Which is, you know, taking me to where I am now at this point in my life. And, and I would, but I would perform with people who, who would have these amazing voices and have these, these phenomenal, this phenomenal ability to act whenever, but they had no idea how to market themselves.

[10:15] Michael Lee Brown: Yeah, yeah.

[10:16] Alan Seales: And you are your own product.

[10:17] Michael Lee Brown: It's true. Yeah.

[10:19] Alan Seales: So that's, that was, it's interesting that you said that at a young age of learning, you know, learning the business side of it. Is there something that, I mean, even now as, as now a 26 year old.

[10:29] Michael Lee Brown: Yeah. Oh, yeah, yeah.

[10:33] Alan Seales: That you, that you would have told, that you would have wanted to tell yourself at a younger age?

[10:37] Michael Lee Brown: Yeah, I guess, um, I think, um, I think this is always the main thing and I, it kind of sounds corny, but it's true. Um, it's always remembering why you love doing it. And I think that’s super important. And I, that is corny, but it's true because, um, I think when the balance is off between always worrying, like I said, it is a business and you always have to focus on that, of course, too. But when you're only thinking about that, you start to lose the love of why you're doing it and the reasons why you're doing it. And I felt like when I started to let go of worrying about, oh, the, you know, uh, every audition, everything, um, uh, timing of when certain things are going to be done, which of course is great to plan ahead and focus on that.

But when I just focused on, okay, this is why I love doing it. I worked harder and taking classes and, and really, um, and really learning more, you know, continuing to constantly, constantly learn. And so I think that is something that I thought, or I think is very important. And I wish I would have even known sooner that even though I did learn it pretty quickly, but I wish I would have learned that from the get-go because, um, I would have taken so many more classes and read so many much more books earlier on that I think would have helped me sooner, you know?

[11:43] Alan Seales: Right.

[11:44] Michael Lee Brown: Um, shoulda, woulda, coulda, but it's all good, you know?

[11:47] Alan Seales: I hate to break it to you, but you're still young.

[11:49] Michael Lee Brown: Oh, no, of course. No, for sure. Sure. No, exactly. I was acting like it's, no, definitely. And, uh, but you know, it's always, it's, it's, it's cool to, it's cool to, you know, think back on that, you know, but I wouldn't have known if I didn't learn.

[11:59] Alan Seales: Did you meet any, uh, I mean, coming in and seeing the city a lot and being involved in the business, were you involved with other actors that were already on Broadway that kind of like shepherded you into the, into the scene and gave you, gave you advice?

[12:12] Michael Lee Brown: Hmm. I mean, I definitely, I, I definitely met people along the way, um, who were more acquaintances, more like, uh, quote from the show, but, uh, acquaintances, uh, throughout the time. Um, but yeah, I mean, I, I think because I was taking lessons with people who were working in the business and stuff, I did get to meet people in classes that were very helpful and influential for sure.

[12:34] Michael Lee Brown: Growing up. I can't think of anyone specifically. I did. Um, actually, well, I went to college when I went to college. I started out with the musical theater program for two years at Marymount Manhattan college. And then I left to do a show called torch song trilogy. It was an out of town at, um, in DC and it was directed by Michael Kahn and Brandon Uranowitz was, was Arnold. And, um, he was really great. I was, I loved working with him and the rest of the cast, of course. And he went on to do a lot of great Broadway shows and still is. Um, but, um, I had a thought for that. I can't remember what it was. Um,

[13:02] Alan Seales: Oh, there we go. I got it. It's back. But I actually, um, when I came back to college, um, you find that with, when you do a theater program, a lot of the courses are year long courses. So it's very hard to leave and come back and finish in time, like with only having so many, you know, so I left, I did two years. And then when I came back, I wanted to finish in two years. So I actually finished, uh, graduated with a communications PR degree and a minor in theater since I'd already done two years of that.

[13:28] Michael Lee Brown: So I'm a, I actually have a communications major and yeah, exactly. PR and started. Uh, and I, um, even like I did a little internship in London for an entertainment PR company, which is really cool for a summer and stuff like that. And then, um, uh, I, I continue to take acting classes and singing classes outside of school within my, within my college experience for the two years left. So, which is cool.

[13:52] Alan Seales: So you were in college and then you went, you left, you took a break to do.

[13:56] Michael Lee Brown: Yeah, basically took a semester or so off to do torch song. And then I came back.

[13:59] Alan Seales: Did you find that that was harder to come back?

[14:01] Michael Lee Brown: Oh, for sure. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it was doing what I love to do. I was doing eight shows a week and it was such a great show to be doing and got to live in a different place for a while, which is fun. And the cast was wonderful. And so, yeah, it was hard to come back for sure. But it was nice to, you know, um, continue to just, you know, work, work as much as I could outside of it and finish up college for sure.

[14:29] Michael Lee Brown: When I was actually in D.C., I believe, it was around that same time when I first heard about it, because they were coming to D.C. kind of shortly after I was there. And yeah, I remember saying, when I heard about the show, because I actually went to Pazik and Paul's concerts throughout the city a lot. I went to all their concerts when they had them, like Joe's Pub and 54 Below and stuff. So I really liked their songwriting while I was in college. And of course, Michael Greif, because of Next to Normal and Rand and stuff, that was wonderful. And so when I heard about the show, I'm like, man, this was like a year or so before I auditioned for it. I'm like, that would be the perfect show. I'd love to be in that show.

If there's any show that I could pick, it would be that one. And so a year came past, and I got an audition for it. And I booked it, which is great. And so it was kind of a surreal moment where I'm like, wow, I've kind of projected this for the past year that this is the show I wanted to do. And now I'm finally in it, which is really cool. And to be playing Evan Hansen, which is awesome.

[15:19] Alan Seales: What was the audition process like for you?

[15:22] Michael Lee Brown: It was over a summer, I went in audition.

[15:24] Alan Seales: An entire summer audition?

[15:25] Michael Lee Brown: Well, it wasn't that, but I think I had, I believe I had three auditions. I went in the first time, and I got called back a second time. And then there was a long break before my final callback, and then I got called back. So it kind of stretched from June to August. And I feel like I got the part the last day of August. So it really kind of took up my whole summer, even though it was short within each time. But no, it was great. Everyone was there, the creative team was there, which is really cool. I got to meet them for the first time. And that was kind of a surreal moment for me too, seeing Patrick and Paul sing there, Michael Greif there. But the material was so much fun. And since I auditioned, because I alternate Evan Hansen, but I also understudy the two boys in the show, Jared and Connor, I was learning their material as well. And so that was kind of a cool, I've never done that, like learning multiple parts before. So this was a cool experience for that too.

[16:12] Alan Seales: You've always done, you've always been the Evan Hansen understudy. And I know that you were still, that you're still the, sorry, I know that you are now the Connor and Jared understudy. So you went in as understudy for all three?

[16:23] Michael Lee Brown: All three, yeah. Yep. And then so then when they created an alternate position, that when Ben was around and Platt was still around, I became doing the alternate position and then still understudying the two boys. And that's what I continue to do now.

[16:34] Alan Seales: So for those who don't know, the difference between an alternate, an understudy, a swing, what else are we missing?

[16:41] Michael Lee Brown: Oh, there's standby and all these terms. Yeah. So I believe, I know at least with alternate is that you go on every week, your weekly performances, I believe that's the correct term for that. And so, because I do go on every week for Evan Hansen, I'm considered the alternate Evan Hansen. But then for understudies, you might, you go on randomly. And I believe standby is the same, but it's, you're not on stage. You don't have, if there's an ensemble, you don't have to always be at the theater or something. But if you are an understudy, you have to be at the theater. And sometimes you're on the ensemble and you understudy some principal characters. And then swing is you understudy a bunch of different characters and swing in and out.

And those, that stuff's crazy. I mean, there's dancers I know who have like nine tracks, like in Wicked or Book of Mormon and stuff. And their head's got to be spinning. That's literally because of all the turns. But no, but it's crazy. I mean, it's pretty remarkable.

[17:33] Alan Seales: That was something Nancy Opel mentioned to me. I interviewed Nancy for this podcast a few episodes ago.

[17:39] Michael Lee Brown: Yeah.

[17:40] Alan Seales: And I asked her, her Broadway debut was what, in 1980, I think it was. Yeah.

[17:44] Michael Lee Brown: Oh, wow.

[17:45] Alan Seales: 1981.

[17:46] Michael Lee Brown: That's amazing.

[17:47] Alan Seales: 1981, I don't remember exactly. I think it was 81.

[17:48] Michael Lee Brown: Wow.

[17:49] Alan Seales: And no, no, no, 79. Because it was one year off of me. Yeah, okay. So she's been doing Broadway pretty much as long as I've been alive, right?

[17:57] Michael Lee Brown: Yeah, cool.

[17:58] Alan Seales: And I said, so what has changed for you? What's one of the biggest things? And she, of course, being Nancy, went on lots of stories because she's wonderful.

[18:05] Michael Lee Brown: Yeah, yeah.

[18:06] Alan Seales: And said that back in her day, there were giant casts. There were 40, 50 people in the cast. You had your dancers, you had your singers, you had your actors. And now, everyone's got to do everything.

[18:18] Michael Lee Brown: Yeah. It's culture, yeah.

[18:19] Alan Seales: And so you get your swings and these people who have to know four, five, six, nine tracks, depending on who they're going in for. And I personally, I applaud you, I applaud everybody, knowing, having to just, at a moment's notice, go in and change for somebody, or be somebody, be another character. I think it's some of the most talented people in the business.

[18:42] Michael Lee Brown: Thanks. No, I is pretty, you're right. And I think it's hard. I really enjoy doing what I'm doing, and it's definitely hard to always, you want to keep track of each character and constantly, but I always give it up for those people who are doing those multiple, like nine, oh, I mean, that's crazy. It's unbelievable. But no, it's pretty fun. And it's funny, you get really different perspectives of the show. You really get to know the show. Like I know Evan Hansen, like back of my hand, because I've seen it. Actually, before I went on for the first time, I watched it like 336 times, I kept count, because I was like studying all the parts and everything. And there was one week, I think the last time I went on for all three boys, I did two, two and two.

So I did two Connor, two Evan, two Jared's in one week. And that was kind of like a very big test of all my knowledge from learning the show, which was super fun. And no, there's times where I've had to go on mid-show and then, and times where you get really last minute notice, like an hour notice that you have to go on. And so it's kind of just always being ready and prepared for sure. And just knowing the show so well, it's obviously helpful.

[19:40] Alan Seales: What happened mid-show?

[19:41] Michael Lee Brown: Oh, just, just sick illness. Yeah. Just not, you know, Evan Hansen, not feeling well and having to leave. And yeah, it's, you know, I guess it's a part of it for sure. And it's smart, you know, if you're not feeling well, you shouldn't, you shouldn't push through it if you, if you really feel like you can't, you know? So that, so yeah, they throw a cast on me a couple seconds and walk out. And it's, and it's so funny. It's really funny to see the audience at that point, because there's like this silence that's just, yeah. And then you hear these whispers, like, who's that? Who's that? What's going on? You know, is that Evan? Is this, you know, and it, and then it takes, and then you finally feel them catch on and like, Oh God, now we're with it, you know? So that's pretty funny.

[20:21] Alan Seales: The cast is a real cast, right?

[20:23] Michael Lee Brown: Oh yeah, it's a real cast. Yeah. Yeah. But it's one layer. I guess real casts have like eight layers to it, but they just do one layer to it. So it is real, but it's, it's just a little thinner.

[20:32] Alan Seales: It's a real cast.

[20:33] Michael Lee Brown: Yeah. And they saw it off in intermission though. I rip mine off. I always just, Ben Platt used to do that and I saw him do it one time. So I'm like, wow, that's a great idea. Like, why are we waiting for this saw to be sawn off? So I just start ripping it off.

[20:45] Alan Seales: Yeah. I guess that's, that's a little bit easier.

[20:48] Michael Lee Brown: Yeah.

[20:49] Alan Seales: Is it, does that mean that it's not completely dry?

[20:52] Michael Lee Brown: Well, it is, but there's these, um, with the way they do it, that there's a little tab at the top. So it's usually, so you can kind of scrape it with your fingernail and then get it going. And then once it's gone, it's, it's good to wrap.

[21:02] Alan Seales: That's not bad.

[21:03] Michael Lee Brown: No. Yeah. But it's, no, it's fun. It's, it definitely helps with the character, you know, you know, getting used to how to, how a cast actually feels for sure.

[21:10] Alan Seales: Do you have a favorite of which character you like to go on for?

[21:13] Michael Lee Brown: I think Evan Hansen at this point, just because I do it every week and I've gotten the chance to really delve into the character and get really comfortable with it. And I love the songs he sings. My favorite song is For Forever. And that's always like a fun, you know, great song to sing every, you know, every performance.

[21:28] Alan Seales: It's interesting. You, so you understudy three different characters. What happens if two of the characters get sick or whatever? Has that ever happened?

[21:35] Michael Lee Brown: Oh yeah. Um, that has happened. We have, um, there's other, other understudies as well. So there's, um, we have, uh, two other boys that understudy. One understudies two of the boys and one other, one other understudy understudy three of the boys. So we have that. And I'm also like, if somebody goes away on vacation, we have vacation swings come in so that we're always prepared. And I believe there has been at least two shows I believe where, um, all understudies have been on for the three boys, which was very rare, but it happened like twice, I think. That's what happens.

[22:04] Alan Seales: How does that change the show?

[22:05] Michael Lee Brown: Um, I just think, uh, just, you know, different personalities, different ways of playing the characters for sure. Um, I think people still see the great show that it is for sure. Um, everything there, and it's always very, very talented actors that are stepping in. Um, so the audience is getting a wonderful show. Um, but you know, it's just a different, different perspective on the characters and you know, which is, which is cool.

[22:28] Alan Seales: We're as an understudy, are you, are you expected to, uh, to, to mimic what the, what the main person's doing or do you bring, is it as if you're, you're, you're cast in that role that is you now on stage and so you're bringing your own personality to it?

[22:42] Michael Lee Brown: Yeah, I think it's a common, I mean, I imagine it, it switches with, um, that changes with each director I would imagine, but, um, I, what I've at least worked with Michael Greif, which is really cool and, and, um, based on what my understanding is, is that when you are an understudy, you kind of have to give a similar show to what the character is doing in terms of what the actions they are taking, because you don't want to throw the other characters off because they're so used to it. Um, but I think it's, it's, it's finding your own unique way and genuine way to get to those actions. That's how I kind of looked at it as like the character is expressing these certain feelings and certain actions, but how you get there is all your own.

And you're obviously, you want to keep that genuine to yourself because you know, if you're, if you're, when you're mimic imitating somebody, it can come across very obvious that, Oh, that person just copying whoever, you know? Um, but when you're, you're genuinely getting to a place that's similar to the actor that's up there, that's, that's more genuine and kind of, I think serves the show better. Um, I know now doing the alternate position, I, which is great. I'm more free to have my own version of Evan Hansen, which is really great, obviously under the umbrella of what, who the character is and all the knowledge that I gained, um, from the creative team and the director and everything, and knowing the show so well. Um, there's definitely a little bit more freedom now in that position because I go on weekly and I have kind of more ownership over the character, I guess you could say.

[24:03] Alan Seales: Right. And how do you, how, how do you, Michael Lee Brown, how do you approach the character versus the other people you've seen play the role?

[24:06] Michael Lee Brown: Um, I would say that, um, it's a hard question. I would say that each, each actor brought wonderful things to the characters. I mean, to Evan Hansen, um, obviously Ben Platt basically founded Evan Hansen. I mean, he created, he created the character. Excuse me. Um, he created the character. And so, um, I definitely, I think took, uh, um, I think I definitely would, for me, what was very helpful was obviously watching what Ben created, seeing what happened, talking to all the creative teams, talking to Michael Greif and everything. But I think what I bring to the character, um, it's just my own, obviously experiences and my own, which any actor I guess could say is my own experience and, and, um, my own perception of the character and how I feel, um, Evan Hansen would be, you know, experiencing these things based on the knowledge that I'm given about the character, you know, um, cause he's such a relatable character, you know, he's so everyone can relate to Evan Hansen, even just from waving through a window.

I mean, everyone's had those experiences, had those, we've all gone through those times. And so I think tapping into that, no pun intended, um, is, uh, is very, um, is very interesting. And so taking my own experiences and I hope that, you know, when I go up there and I, it comes across that way, which I think it does, you know.

[25:23] Alan Seales: Do you have a first-hand experience and stuff? Do you have any experience with like the unfortunate side of, of bullying and, and whatnot, like from your own past?

[25:34] Michael Lee Brown: Yeah. I mean, I think, um, I don't know if I, I, I fortunately don't, I would never felt like I've been, I've been bullied. Um, but I knew kids who have, who were, and, um, I like to think I was always a friend to those kids and, and, you know, I would never, I never partook in bullying, of course. Um, but we were aware of it and I think, um, it's always important to reach out to those kids and reach out to those people that, um, maybe not even standing up to the bully, but, but reaching out to the kids that are being bullied and talking to them and, and, and being friends with them and, um, caring for them, which I think is, is as important as, um, instead of just watching it happen or, or in stuff like that.

Um, so no, I, I, but I think I definitely can relate to, uh, feeling left out, feeling alone, or, you know, I, I went, we're going to high school. I joined when I went to Pennington school, it was a private school in Jersey and I didn't know anybody at the school. And, um, that was hard. I felt like everyone else knew each other. And so it's really hard to get, to get acclimated to a community when you don't know anyone, you know? And, um, so that, that, that took a while to kind of, you know, get friends and stuff like that, but it's always just important to remember you're not alone, obviously hashtag you're not alone. Um, but it's, it's so, so true. And, um, I think that's, I think it's, it feels good to play a character like Evan Hansen because I know kids who are like that.

And I knew, I knew families who, um, went through, uh, similar situations like the topics of the show and who were affected by that. And so that topic alone is something that has always been very, very special to me without giving anything away. Um, and so I, I, I feel very grateful to get to share this story with people and feel like I'm helping, you know, in that and, and the letters we get from kids and the stage door and that they see the show and they're so affected by it in such a powerful, positive way, which is really, really great. And so my heart goes out to, you know, obviously everyone who sees the show.

[27:25] Alan Seales: Yeah. That's what I was going to ask about the stage door experiences. I feel like Evan Hansen, Dear Evan Hansen came around at a point where, where the, the kids were the, the generation of kids who grew up not, not knowing what it's like. Sorry, let me rephrase the generation of kids who have grown up to, to not know what it's like to not have the internet.

[27:46] Michael Lee Brown: Yeah, that's so, yeah.

[27:47] Alan Seales: They are now able to be young adults and, and are finally able to express themselves in ways that the show is kind of bringing them in into this way of being able to allow them to do and, and the, you know, the hashtags and you are not alone and you will be found. Yeah. It's I've, I've, you know, followed some of that. It's been, it's been an incredible movement.

[28:05] Michael Lee Brown: Oh my gosh. Yeah. And I love how the show will, will put together the fan videos.

[28:10] Alan Seales: Yes. Yeah. Have you seen those?

[28:17] Michael Lee Brown: Of course. Yeah.

[28:22] Alan Seales: So if you want to find the videos, go to DearEvanHansen.com. There's a videos on there. They, they're incredible, but fan, fan submission, this montage of everyone singing these great songs.

[28:29] Michael Lee Brown: Yeah, no, it's, it's really is. And it, and it's also all throughout the world too. I mean, you see, I saw like a video the other day from people in Australia saying you'll be found. It's just unbelievable. But yeah, no, it's, it's, it's, it's really, it's really wonderful. I, what was we were going to say something? I forget what it was. Oh, something about the, the stage door experience.

[28:47] Alan Seales: Oh yes. Yeah. Yeah. I guess more specifically when you're Evan versus Connor versus Jared, do you get, do you, do people treat you differently outside?

[29:29] Michael Lee Brown: Yeah, so I think that kind of even just how each character represents, playing that character, you definitely get a response differently when you meet the people at the stage, or the letters that you get from the people that saw you as that character.

[29:41] Michael Lee Brown: And it's always funny to see people go, I saw you as Jared, and then I saw you as Connor, and then I saw you as Evan, and that's really cool too, you know, and to see that reaction is always a lot of fun.

[29:51] Michael Lee Brown: I really like how social media has allowed fans to connect with actors now on the Broadway stage, and the forefront of my mind is like Ashley Park from Mean Girls. She's doing live streams of putting on her makeup before the show, and she's talking about, like James Heigl Hardock posts the fan art that he gets, and it's incredible the kind of stuff that I'm sure for decades, everyone's always received.

[30:04] Michael Lee Brown: But now, you as being behind the curtain are able to share that with those of us in front of the curtain. And what is, I guess, let me ask a question about that. What's been, is there something that sticks out, what's been the most impression, what's made the biggest impression on you in terms of something you've received from a fan?

[30:42] Michael Lee Brown: Oh, I mean, so many things, but probably, one, the fan art's really beautiful. I mean, there's so many talented kids, it's unbelievable, the drawings and things they make, paintings, unbelievable, it's really talented. And also, just really the letters you get, I mean, it's really heartfelt letters, it's unbelievable.

[30:59] Michael Lee Brown: Some of them, I'm tearing up from reading, I'm like, wow, this is really beautifully written, and just so heartfelt. And it really makes you feel good that you're doing a service by doing this show, which is always a type of art or theater, art is theater, theater is art, but any type of performing that I really care about is really what always my goal is, for sure.

[31:19] Michael Lee Brown: And so getting those is really very, very inspiring, and not that I don't, I love doing the show for so many reasons, including just the music in general and the writing and everything, but also, like I said, the moral that's behind it, it keeps, and getting those letters keeps inspiring you each day to continue to perform at your best.

[31:37] Michael Lee Brown: And back to what you said before, too, about the whole living without social media, and that's all such a positive thing in terms of having people get inside scoop about the Broadway show and everything, that's all really wonderful, but yeah, it's really interesting, even I grew up with, for a while, without social media, I don't think I got a Facebook until high school or something, and I had a flip phone until eighth grade, so all you could do was text, and we used AIM and everything, which was at home.

[32:05] Michael Lee Brown: Oh, yeah. With away messages and all that stuff, and so we had one computer in the house, that was it, and so it's just unbelievable how different that is now, and I think that's really what's really cool about the show, talking about that, and how that alone makes one feel alone, in a way, a poet.

[32:24] Michael Lee Brown: But it's true, it's just that whole concept, tapping on the glass, and just always feeling left out, and that maybe somebody else's life is better than theirs just by what they're posting on social media, when that's really not the case.

[32:37] Michael Lee Brown: Everyone's going through something, everyone knows somebody who's going through something, and so we can't live in that fantasy world of that.

[32:45] Alan Seales: Well, that's the thing, too. I feel like if you're going to follow somebody on social media, you either want to see only the good stuff, or only the bad stuff.

[32:52] Michael Lee Brown: Yeah, I know. You want your life to be pleasantly in the middle.

[32:55] Alan Seales: Why can't it just be simple and pleasant?

[32:57] Michael Lee Brown: Because those people are boring to follow.

[32:59] Alan Seales: Yeah, I guess that's what it is.

[33:00] Michael Lee Brown: Here's my scrambled eggs I had for breakfast.

[33:03] Alan Seales: It's true, I know people tell you, I know, it's true, you're right, either one, it's hard to kind of, but it's crazy, because it's upsetting, because I think we get a lot of false reality from that.

[33:15] Michael Lee Brown: But there is a lot of positives to it, of course, like anything else.

[33:18] Alan Seales: There's a lot of good, for sure.

[33:20] Michael Lee Brown: Right. So in addition to, I'll change gears a little bit, in addition to the show, you're also, like you said, you're a singer-songwriter.

[33:27] Michael Lee Brown: Yeah, yeah.

[33:28] Alan Seales: So tell me about this side of your life outside of the show.

[33:31] Michael Lee Brown: Yeah, so I kind of kept my songwriting, I did it a lot, like I said, since I was 10 or so, and I kind of kept it to myself for a while. I played little things at school, like coffeehouses and stuff like that.

[33:43] Alan Seales: You had a coffeehouse at school?

[33:45] Michael Lee Brown: Yeah, well, they called it a coffeehouse, but it was in the little black box theater that they had at the school.

[33:51] Alan Seales: Oh, not an actual coffeehouse.

[33:53] Michael Lee Brown: Not an actual coffeehouse, yeah, it was like, they called it a coffeehouse, where everybody went for four, and they'd do something, you know, of course. So I would do things like that.

[33:59] Alan Seales: I was like, we had a Burger King, not a coffeehouse.

[34:02] Michael Lee Brown: Exactly. No, and then in college, I got more into it, and then finally, I finally was like, I've got to start recording songs. And I have so many songs I've written over the years, and I've been going back to, and I'm going to continue to record more now.

[34:16] Michael Lee Brown: But I finally, I met Matthew James Thomas, he played Pippin, and he came to one of the shows a while ago, and that's where we met. And I talked to him about my songwriting, we had a mutual friend, and he really liked the songs that I wrote.

[34:28] Michael Lee Brown: And so he actually produced my EP, the way it used to be, it's on Spotify and all streaming services now, so please listen.

[34:34] Alan Seales: The way it used to be?

[34:35] Michael Lee Brown: The way it used to be, yeah.

[34:36] Alan Seales: Oh, the way it used to be.

[34:37] Michael Lee Brown: The way it used to be, yeah.

[34:38] Alan Seales: We cut the the.

[34:39] Michael Lee Brown: The way it used to be, Michael E. Brown on Spotify.

[34:41] Alan Seales: Yes, yeah.

[34:42] Michael Lee Brown: And so that was kind of my first just trying to getting things recorded, and starting that journey of me getting my music out there as much as possible. And so I'm continuing to now write more and more songs, and starting to continue to record them.

[34:56] Michael Lee Brown: But that was just a great way to kind of start, and it was great working with Matthew and collaborating with him. And we went up to Duncan Sheik's studio, and it's like an upstate New York, which is a cool place to record.

[35:06] Michael Lee Brown: And it's just kind of, it's something I really love doing, and I want to continue to do that.

[35:11] Alan Seales: What do you play?

[35:12] Michael Lee Brown: I play guitar, yeah.

[35:13] Alan Seales: So you play guitar.

[35:14] Michael Lee Brown: Yeah.

[35:15] Alan Seales: And you have access to so much talent here in New York. Did you handpick who else was on the album with you?

[35:25] Michael Lee Brown: Well, actually, we had an engineer, and then we hired another friend of ours, Matt, who played a bunch of instruments along with Matthew. And so we kind of, just the three of us actually played everything that they played that's what's on there.

[35:41] Michael Lee Brown: And so I really give it up to them, because we were able to condense it and do it as fast as possible. But also quality, you know, give it great quality. But now going forward, yeah, it's been great.

[35:54] Michael Lee Brown: Even I've done a 54 Below concert. I did a solo show back in September, and I played a couple of my original songs. And I had different players from the Broadway community. Actually, a lot of the Dear Evan Hansen band was in it, which was really cool.

[36:08] Michael Lee Brown: It was like basically the Evan Hansen band performed my concert, which was really great. It was really awesome, like really great players. And so then going forward, I'm doing another solo show or encore of that in January.

[36:19] Alan Seales: You will have done.

[36:20] Michael Lee Brown: Oh, I'm sorry. I just did another one in January 7th. And so I hope we can continue to do more.

[36:29] Michael Lee Brown: And so it's nice to have that, you know, getting to know these different amazing musicians. And it's exciting that the possibility of collaborating with them going forward should be really cool.

[36:39] Alan Seales: Do you see yourself at like a fork in the road right now? Or is this two things that are completely coexistent and can happen in parallel?

[36:47] Michael Lee Brown: Yeah, I think so. I think because I think for me, I just love acting. Like that's kind of always been my forefront. And I want to continue to do that and breaking to a lot of different roles that way.

[36:56] Michael Lee Brown: But I always wanted to continue to do songwriting, of course, you know, paralleling that, which would be cool. So I see them as happening, coexisting for sure.

[37:04] Alan Seales: Do you like writing for yourself as like a pop artist or is it – do you want to songwrite? Do you like songwriting for like – you want to start writing for musicals or for movies or anything?

[37:16] Michael Lee Brown: Yeah, it's actually interesting because that's actually been like a recent thing where I've been writing songs. And I'm like, oh, I'm actually – I could do this, but it would be better on this person. I've been thinking about that.

[37:25] Michael Lee Brown: Like this would be better on a girl's voice. This would be better with this person singing or this artist would sound really good on that. So that's something to kind of think about going forward.

[37:32] Michael Lee Brown: It would be nice to kind of break into that and have other people and, you know, Broadway friends sing my songs. It would be really cool.

[37:37] Alan Seales: Yeah, that would be actually really good. You can use this idea. You can do your own cabaret next, but it's cabaret of your music where you're singing like every third song.

[37:46] Michael Lee Brown: Exactly. That actually would be a good idea if I do that. That would be really cool.

[37:50] Alan Seales: There you go. Heard it here first.

[37:52] Michael Lee Brown: Yes, exactly. Look out for that.

[37:53] Alan Seales: I was swiping through your Instagram profile last night.

[37:58] Michael Lee Brown: Oh, okay.

[37:59] Alan Seales: And I saw pics with lots of fun people that have come to see the show. Do you have a standout person that's been like, oh my god, like I think Katy Perry, right?

[38:08] Michael Lee Brown: Yeah, Katy Perry. That was really cool. I am a big fan of Katy Perry, but I was a huge fan when she first came out. One of the boys' album was really good, and I went and saw her concert twice.

[38:19] Michael Lee Brown: Her first concert was in Atlantic City, which was near Ocean City, which is where my family went in the summers for the Jersey Shore, which was fun. So I went to that, and then I actually was in L.A. later that summer, and she happened to be there then, and I went to see her then.

[38:31] Michael Lee Brown: So it was really cool to meet her. Oh, there's so many people. Steven Spielberg was really cool to meet.

[38:36] Michael Lee Brown: No kidding. Yeah, it was amazing, and I literally just watched the BFG the night before, and he happened to be there the next day. He directed that, and I was like, I just watched BFG last night. It was amazing, and it was really cool. That was really cool to meet him.

[38:49] Michael Lee Brown: Martin Short, I'm such a big Martin Short fan. That was awesome. Steve Martin, that was really cool. I saw a pic with Christopher Lloyd.

[38:56] Michael Lee Brown: Christopher Lloyd, that was amazing. That's like my favorite movies back in the future, and so that was really cool. Oh my gosh, yeah, so many. I'm drawing a blank now, but it's been constant.

[39:09] Alan Seales: How do casts find out when someone like that's in the audience?

[39:13] Michael Lee Brown: You just come out on stage, and you're like, oh crap, there's Katy Perry.

[39:16] Michael Lee Brown: Yeah, well, there's a little board when you go off stage. There's a little board that has the celebrity's name on it, so you can see who's, oh, this is who was at the show, so that when you go get out of costume, you can go down and meet them.

[39:31] Alan Seales: Do they do that before or before the show?

[39:33] Michael Lee Brown: They do it after, so no one knows. They don't want people to know beforehand who's out there, which is cool. Beyonce came, which is really cool, and I was on for Conor at that point, and I saw her in the audience.

[39:43] Michael Lee Brown: That was pretty funny. I'm looking at Beyonce as I'm singing Silly Me. I was like, that is funny. So I knew before the board came that Beyonce was there, so a lot of cool, yeah. It's pretty exciting.

[39:53] Alan Seales: That's a lot of fun.

[39:54] Michael Lee Brown: Yeah, I've always wondered about that. So then, just before we wrap up here, I guess, what's next for you? Do you want to stay in Amund Hansen for a little while longer?

[40:04] Michael Lee Brown: Yeah, for sure. I'll be here for a while. I love the show. I love working on the show. It's just wonderful, so I'll be here for a while.

[40:11] Michael Lee Brown: Yeah, of course, I'm just continuing to do my work along with Dear Evan Hansen and all my side work and continue to work here.

[40:19] Alan Seales: Audition your socks off.

[40:20] Michael Lee Brown: There you go. I do that stuff, too. See what else? Other opportunities, of course, but I love being with the show. It's wonderful.

[40:26] Alan Seales: Nice. So we have three standard closing questions that I ask all guests here.

[40:30] Michael Lee Brown: Oh, cool.

[40:31] Alan Seales: First, very simply, what motivates you?

[40:33] Michael Lee Brown: What motivates me? I think going back to what I kind of said a little bit before is always having a reason bigger than yourself for doing what you're doing and always remembering why you love doing what you're doing, and I think that's super important.

[40:44] Michael Lee Brown: And I think going back to having a reason bigger than yourself for doing what you're doing is super important because that can change with project to project. Dear Evan Hansen has a message that I'm very passionate about, and so that keeps me super passionate about the show.

[40:57] Michael Lee Brown: And every time I get to perform it, it keeps renewing me and keeps me inspired every time and motivated. And I think that can vary project to project. So I think those two things for sure is what, off the top of my head, I would say motivates me.

[41:08] Alan Seales: Beautiful. And you kind of touched on this a little bit already, but what advice would you give to your younger self or younger people listening now starting out down a similar path?

[41:15] Michael Lee Brown: Oh, yeah, a little bit, too. Yeah, always remember why you love doing it and always keep learning, always keep staying in classes. I always think it's super important.

[41:22] Michael Lee Brown: Me, I always want to be an actor. I always should be in an acting class that you never stop reading books about acting all the different theories of acting methods, of course, and just kind of developing an understanding of that so that you can be a part of the discussion and to learn and learn and learn as much as you can because the learning never ends.

[41:36] Alan Seales: Right. And then last question, if you could only see one show for the rest of your life, but you could see it as many times as you want, what would you say?

[41:46] Michael Lee Brown: Well, Dear Evan Hansen, obviously, but besides Dear Evan Hansen, that's hard. I would say I'm just going to pick one because it's at the top of my head, probably just fan of the opera, just because I just love the show.

[42:02] Michael Lee Brown: And it was sentimental to me. It was my first Broadway show to see. So that's kind of just cool. But I mean, there's so many good shows. And, you know, you kind of you like each show for different reasons. You know, this show because the music's amazing. The show for the story or, you know, whatever. But, yes, besides Dear Evan Hansen, I would say that.

[42:20] Alan Seales: All right. I accept that.

[42:23] Alan Seales: We can find you on Twitter at HeyMichaelLeeB.

[42:28] Michael Lee Brown: Yep.

[42:29] Alan Seales: Instagram at HeyMichaelLeeBrown.

[42:31] Michael Lee Brown: Yes.

[42:32] Alan Seales: There's a character limit, I guess, on Twitter.

[42:34] Michael Lee Brown: That's what it was. I couldn't get the brown in there.

[42:38] Alan Seales: And then, of course, not the, but Way It Used to Be, the EP on Spotify.

[42:45] Michael Lee Brown: Yep.

[42:46] Alan Seales: Great. And then you can connect with me and more of the Theatre Podcast at Theatre Underscore Podcast on both Instagram and Twitter. Facebook.com slash Official Theatre Podcast. And you can listen and subscribe via the TheatrePodcast.com. Everywhere you listen, please give an honest review. I want to read the reviews.

[43:00] Michael Lee Brown: Reviews are wonderful.

[43:02] Alan Seales: Reviews are wonderful. We are produced by Jillian Hockman. And, of course, a big thank you to our friends Jukebox The Ghost for this lovely intro and outro music. Michael Lee Brown, thank you so much for talking today.

[43:15] Michael Lee Brown: Thank you so much for having me. Happy to be here. This has been wonderful.

[43:18] Michael Lee Brown: It was great. And a great happy birthday.

[43:20] Alan Seales: Thank you so much.