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[0:00] Alan Seales: Welcome to The Theatre Podcast, intimate personal conversations with the theatre's biggest names. I'm your host, Alan Seales, and this episode is with Katrina Bowden, who, among her 40 plus TV and film credits, has two of my favorites, 30 Rock and Tucker and Dale vs Evil. She's also been in a bajillion episodes of The Bold and the Beautiful, has a new movie coming out called Great White, which is a serious thriller. It's actually a little bit different from the comedic role she's normally given because, as we discussed, she's looking for more challenging things as she gets into her 30s. She wants to really go home at the end of the day and feel good about what she's done and feel challenged, feel fulfilled in this amazingly intense industry. She was an absolute delight to talk to. So now let's get straight into it. Everybody, please enjoy this episode with Katrina Bowden.

[1:02] Alan Seales: Today's guest, you may remember as Cerie, Liz Lemon's seemingly clueless assistant on 30 Rock, or maybe Allison, in one of my actual personal favorite movies, Tucker and Dale vs Evil. She has literally dozens more TV and film credits, including Ugly Betty, New Girl, Scary Movie 5, Sex Drive, and Dirty John, and at the time of recording now has been on 217 episodes of The Bold and the Beautiful, and is now starring as Kaz in a brand new movie called Great White, which just came out on July 16th. Katrina Bowden, welcome to The Theatre Podcast.

[1:39] Katrina Bowden: Thank you for having me. Wow, what an intro.

[1:42] Alan Seales: You're very welcome. I shortened it because your career has just exploded. It was like you came out of nowhere in 2006. And that's actually kind of where I want to start with the whole thing is because you were on 30 Rock, that started in 2006. And that was right when you turned 18. I don't know if that was coincidence or not. But did you have any clue that this was the direction that your life was going to take? Because you were into modeling beforehand, right?

[2:13] Katrina Bowden: Yeah. Well, I mean, I hoped that that's the direction my life would take. I didn't know if it was going to happen or not. I was modeling and doing commercials and taking acting classes all through high school. And I knew I didn't want to go to college. I knew I really just wanted to pursue acting. But that doesn't always work out for most people. So I was ready to go to college and do the whole thing. I was going to go to school for acting and I was super excited about that too. But then when I was 17, about to go to college in New York City is when I booked 30 Rock. And it all happened really, really fast. And it was a week before I was supposed to go to college and start that I found out I booked the job. And I was like, well, I guess I'm not going. So it all happened really, really fast. And yeah, I always hoped it would go this way. I knew that's what I wanted to do from a pretty young age.

[3:11] Alan Seales: Wow. So literally, you were packed up, ready to go a week. The whole college thing was your future. And then how much auditioning had been happening up until this point for 30 Rock?

[3:23] Katrina Bowden: Well, I wasn't really packed up. I was excited to go to college if I had to, but I didn't really want to. So I hadn't even packed anything yet. I wasn't prepared. I had a week left and I was putting it off to the last second. And at this point, I had auditioned for 30 Rock back when they were casting the pilot, which was like a year before. And I didn't get the part. And then I got this audition sent to me. And I was like, wait, I recognize these sides. And it turns out that they were recasting the character. And I was like, oh my god, I remember this. I really liked it. So they brought me back in. I was a little older at that point. And it happened within the... I read with casting and then I read with Tina Fey two days later.

And then two days later, I was at the table read for the show. So it happened so fast, which is really unusual. Usually the process of casting a TV show takes so long and it's like pulling teeth at certain points. But this was really, really fast.

[4:24] Alan Seales: Did you ever find out what happened to the original person? Are we allowed to know that?

[4:30] Katrina Bowden: I mean, you're not allowed to know I was recast. It's public information. But no, I don't know what happened to her. I don't know.

[4:40] Alan Seales: It's fine. It's fine. And well, yeah, you're right. Because the casting and the reading and then the table read, that's such short notice. And then just shot out of a cannon because you just look, like I said at the beginning, the credits literally, I think over 40 credits, right? And in the relative scheme of being an actor, you haven't been doing this all that long. And so now you've got major motion pictures and TV and hundreds of episodes of The Bold and the Beautiful, which could be a lifetime gig for a lot of people, right?

[5:14] Katrina Bowden: Yeah, totally.

[5:15] Alan Seales: So now you've got all these choices and all these opportunities that I suspect are presented to you all the time. And so come bring this to Great White, right? This new brand new movie just released. And there were jumpy moments. I watched it. I've seen it and I jumped and it was phenomenal and beautiful, by the way, because I want to get into some of the filming because you actually filmed some of it down in Australia.

[5:42] Katrina Bowden: All of it in Australia.

[5:44] Alan Seales: Oh, really?

[5:45] Katrina Bowden: Yeah, all of it.

[5:46] Alan Seales: Some was in a studio, some was indoors, some was outdoor on the beach. But how did you approach these roles when it comes to where you want your career to go now? Because where you started at 18 and before that at modeling, right? And then going into TV at 18 and then adding movies to it. And I feel like Tucker and Dale vs Evil, in my opinion, was so beautiful. Such a great movie. But when you choose the projects that are presented to you, what are you looking at? And then why now something like Great White? Because you do comedy very well and this is not that.

[6:27] Katrina Bowden: Well, thank you. Yeah, I love comedy. I definitely did a lot of comedy while I was on 30 Rock just because at that time, that was what was being presented to me. And I love doing comedy, so I'm always down for it. But I think after doing so much comedy for so many years, I wanted to focus on doing things that were challenging and different for me. So projects that were a little bit more dramatic or more genre films just to stick my hand in different things and try something that was different. I always like a challenge. So whenever I take on a role, I want to do something I haven't ever done before. So when Great White came to me, I've never done a shark movie. I've done some genre and thriller and horror movies in the past, but nothing quite like this.

And I really, really just loved the script so much because it's not like your standard shark movie where it's all about the blood and the guts and gore and the jump scares. I mean, there is that, of course, because you don't have that in a shark movie. But they really focus on those quiet, suspenseful, tense, isolated, helpless moments in between, which really attracted me to the script. The script and the director, Marty, focus a lot on the characters and making them really layered and interesting so that you actually care about the people that you're watching. And so a lot of, I think, the best moments in this film to shoot and to watch were those quiet, helpless moments. Because it's like, if you were stuck in a raft in the middle of the ocean, you would have tons of those moments where you just don't know what to do because there is nothing to do.

It wouldn't be all excitement at every turn. So I think that also having those scenes in there really made those big jump scare, scary moments that much more impactful because you never knew when they were coming.

[8:31] Alan Seales: Oh, I totally agree. I was going to actually say that the moments, I think some of my favorite moments were not the shark, sharky moments, not the jump scares, but like the moments between you and your co-star Aaron Jacobenko, the two of you just amazing, amazing scenes together. But the two of you really had a connection that brought this movie, I think, a realism that a lot of, like you were saying, the other horror flicks don't particularly do so well or don't have at all.

[9:03] Katrina Bowden: Yeah. I mean, we really, really wanted to create that chemistry on screen and we really wanted to make sure that everyone cared about our characters and that our characters were different enough from each other, yet really relatable so that it really, you would care about them and you would be rooting for them and you wanted them to stay together and survive and all of that. So we really focused on that a lot, he and I, and we spent a lot of time together just to get to know each other because the better that you know your cast mates, the more you have that fun chemistry on set. And I think that we really, we were able to create something really special with these two characters in the movie.

[9:47] Alan Seales: How often, I guess, relating this to theater and Broadway, which a lot of my audience is, which in that sort of scenario, the rehearsal process, you have table reads, you have workshops, and then you have workshop two, and then you have workshop three, workshop four, right? And then you have out of town, and then you have, you know, yada, yada, yada. It becomes this multi-year buildup if you get to Broadway, but TV and film is much different. And so it's interesting to me that you just said you actually spent time with Aaron one-on-one beforehand to get to know each other, just because I guess I take for granted in the film, I mean in theater, how much that comes naturally. But when you're approaching this sort of stuff from a TV and film perspective, you might have somebody come on for like a day, you know, a single role during the day or something.

They're on set for a couple hours, and you're supposed to be intimate in one way or another, right? Maybe you hate this person, they're a distant family member, or it's some sort of other chemistry, and you just have to flip this switch. That's got to be, I don't know, near impossible, which is why you're, you know, why the good people keep doing this, obviously.

[10:53] Katrina Bowden: Yeah, I mean, it is, it's definitely super fast-paced, and you, sometimes you don't really know your co-stars, and all of a sudden you have to pretend like you're in love with them, or you hate them, like you said. So, I mean, with this movie, our director wanted us to all really get to know each other well, so he had us all come out a couple weeks early before we actually started shooting, so that we could do a few different table reads, really like run scenes together, and just get to know each other, and just chat about our characters, so that we could really be on the same page, and just have that, like, that familiarity with each other, and with what each person is going to bring to the table beforehand, without overdoing it, or overworking it. We wanted to have that spontaneity there on the set.

[11:39] Katrina Bowden: I thought that was super important, especially for this movie, because, you know, in most film and television, you're not stuck with the same people in a very small, confined space for the entirety of the shoot. But with this movie, we're either on the seaplane or the raft. And it, you know, you can't really, if you don't like the people that you're working with, or you don't really all genuinely get along, it's going to come across on screen and not so good way. So we were really lucky, because the whole cast, we just really liked each other. And we just had a lot of fun. And we were all really game for anything, because, you know, in a movie like this, you're in the water, things go wrong.

It's, you know, it's not the most glamorous type of shooting environment at all times. So it was, I felt really, really lucky to have such great actors who were just down for anything on this movie, because I think if we didn't have that, it wouldn't have turned out the way it did.

[12:28] Alan Seales: Yeah, it worked. It worked. And I have one logistical question that I've never, I've always wondered this, I never asked it. But in the, this is a stupid question. But when you're out doing a movie like this, where you're supposed to be on a raft in the middle of nowhere in the sun for hours and hours and hours, when you're actually outside, not in the studio, not protected, how do you, like, I was looking for signs of actual sunburn throughout the whole movie, and I couldn't find it. How do you keep like, is there? Do you do you have a something on top to actually block the sun while you're shooting? How does that work?

[13:02] Katrina Bowden: They had certain flags that like are on like sea stands that they put in the water to protect us from sun. But some shots, you can't have that, like some shots, they have to be a little bit wider, and they had to, and they actually had to have a lot, they use most like all natural sunlight for all the outdoor shoots. And actually, the majority of our shooting was outside, we had a studio like one week in a studio, but that was it. So the majority was outside in the heat in the sun. And it was just the combination of, you know, our grips having really good flags to protect us umbrellas that we would put up in between takes, and our hair and makeup department just basically hosing us with sunscreen at every single moment. So combination seemed to work pretty well. But we all got pretty tan on that shoot, I will say, just the endless being outside in the sun.

[13:53] Alan Seales: Yeah, absolutely. I want to take us back to Wyckoff, New Jersey now, which, yeah, which is where you were, where you were born. And that's basically as much information as I could find about you prior to to 18. And, and please, at any point, stop me if any, if you don't want to talk about anything, because it seems as I'm trying, as I was trying to research for this episode that you're that you purposely are intentionally that you are intentionally a private person.

[14:23] Katrina Bowden: Yeah.

[14:24] Alan Seales: And, and so I mean, just tell me about, tell me about what, what got you into, I guess, modeling and then the desire to, to turn that into something more or did acting come first and modeling was a gateway? Like, tell me the younger story.

[14:40] Katrina Bowden: I guess you could say modeling was a little bit of a gateway. I've always just been like a big ham. I love a camera. I've always been that I was always that kid that if anyone would watch me, I would put on a show, whether it was good or not. I never turned down a chance to get my photo taken. That's just how I always was. And so being that type of kid, I just really loved the idea of make believe and playing pretend. And the idea of acting just sounded like the perfect thing for a person like me. And I, you know, when I started modeling, I had had some family friends who had their kids doing some modeling and they're making a lot of money. And as a teenager, I was like, Oh, I could do something like this and like make money.

Like, yeah. So that's why I started modeling to be completely honest, just so I could make money, you know, as a teenager. And from there, I also started taking acting classes at the same time and really fell in love with that and just, you know, discovered how much I loved it, how much I loved exploring, you know, my own past and my feelings. And I went to these classes in New York City with Anne Rattray. I don't know if you're familiar with her. Her classes were like therapy sessions for all of us. And it was mostly like teenagers and we would all sit around and talk about our feelings and our pain. And as a teenager, you know, it was just like a pretty vulnerable experience, but I really loved it and looked forward to it every single week.

And so those classes really, really made me fall in love with acting and, you know, making myself a better actor. And I still use all of her techniques that she taught me from, you know, those early, early years. And at that point, I started auditioning for a lot of commercials, auditioning for little things here and there. I was booking a lot of commercials, but most of them were like kind of like model-y commercial type things. And so, yeah, that's kind of how I started. I didn't have anyone in my family in the industry. My mom always did theater when she was a kid, but she's always been very much like me. She just loves, you know, the attention and she loves the crowd. I guess I kind of got a little bit of that from her, but yeah, that's how it all started.

[17:14] Alan Seales: We're going to take a short break. Stay tuned for more of the episode.

[17:30] Katrina Bowden: Wow. Wow. Okay. So then the therapy aspect of this always, as soon as someone mentions that, that's where I go. I love, I love, love, love this kind of stuff. And for me, I think that people are attracted to theater because it allows you to experience emotion and feel empathy without actually going through these situations in real life, right? We, as a society, as a species, are storytellers. We're herd animals that love to be together, that love to tell stories, and there are chemical reactions that happen in our brains when we are telling stories. It's the bonding chemicals, the happy releases of when we're telling these and when we're listening and watching them and experiencing them. And I always am so curious as to what it is, and it's different for everybody, right?

So this is why I ask what it is about the therapeutic aspect of performing that speaks to everybody individually, because everyone's different. For me, it's like, I need to be told by people that I don't know that I'm good at something. That's me, right? So do you, have you ever thought about that sort of?

[18:51] Katrina Bowden: Oh, I have a lot because I also, I just love therapy as well. And I find it extremely fascinating. I think that we all just inherently as human beings want to fit in and be accepted and be, like you said, like how you feel being told that we're doing a good job and that we're good at something and that we're good. And I think that every single person has trauma that they've gone through. I just think it's just a given for any person, no matter what walk of life you come from. And I think I remember when I was a teenager in these acting classes, we would have to find these traumatic moments to talk about in the class. And I remember thinking like, well, my trauma is nothing like that person's. Like mine's not good enough or mine's not as bad.

So it doesn't, I don't, I'm not like, why should I even bring it up? It's not valid. But the thing I learned is that every single person has their own version of a trauma that's happened to them. And it's all the same feeling. It's just manifest in a different way, depending on what happened to you in your life. So I think that when we see a character in a movie or a TV show that's gone through something crazy, but it has a similar feeling to us that can relate to something that we went through, even if we don't realize it at the time, it makes us feel more connected or seen. And from being seen, then you feel validated. And validation makes you feel like you're not alone and that you're not this weirdo living your life differently than everyone else who is living this perfect life.

So I think that, yeah, I think that film and television really does, whether we realize it or not in the moment, really connects us and makes us feel connected to other humans, which is essentially what we're all after.

[20:44] Alan Seales: That is very, very interesting. And somewhere in there, and I always have to choose my words correctly.

[20:51] Katrina Bowden: I kind of ranted, so I'm sorry.

[20:53] Alan Seales: No, no, no. I love the rants. The rants are perfect. Somewhere in there is, gosh, this is so hard for me to, I guess, articulate, because I choose my words as a cis, hetero, white-presenting person, male. Things are heard differently, depending, of course, we all have unconscious bias, right? And when people have different advantages and different disadvantages going through life, and even going back through the need for validation, right? So there are people who post on social media and people who get in front of the camera or on stage because they need to feel it's an emotional need, or sometimes it's a physical need, or sometimes it's, I guess, just, like you said, a need to be validated.

And I'm thinking back to a conversation I had with Keith Powell, right? Your co-star from 30 Rock. And he was saying that jokes about him being a black guy at the time were kind of okay, and now would not fly. And even though that show and the writing team led by a woman who was pushing the boundaries of everything, Tina is just amazing, right? And looking back at 18-year-old, this character of Ceri, who's become sort of this, is sex object the right term? Because the character wasn't presented, like you didn't play it that way, because you had no clue what you were doing. You were just there to earn your money and not care about doing anything.

[22:46] Katrina Bowden: Yeah, exactly.

[22:48] Alan Seales: So I guess my question in all of this, right, is now that you're in your older years now, I don't know if I'm allowed to say.

[22:56] Katrina Bowden: Oh, God. I'm 32.

[22:59] Alan Seales: There you go. All right.

[23:00] Alan Seales: I like saying 32 better than older years.

[23:17] Alan Seales: And even Scott Rudin here on Broadway. Stuff is different, and do you feel differently about being the focus of those kind of jokes now than you did previously? And is this shaping how you're moving forward in your career?

[23:34] Katrina Bowden: Yeah, I think it definitely is shaping how I'm moving forward in my career. How I feel about it then, I mean, I think it's kind of hard to, I think it's hard to form a judgment about it now because for that time, because at that time, it was okay, you know, and I didn't think negatively of it just because it was a different time. I mean, does it make it like totally okay? No, but it wasn't just different. It was just different. And it's hard to look back now and get mad at it, in my opinion, because I mean, I just think that why waste my time doing that? Because, you know, at the end of the day, like that character was, like you said, kind of like a sexualized character in the show, even though it wasn't blatantly forced or anything.

It just was what the character was. And at that time, that was just the norm in comedy. I mean, all comedies at that time, that's just what it was. And it wasn't anything malicious about it, really. It just was more okay to do that. And like with, you know, with what you spoke with Keith about, it was like the same type of thing. It just, it just was what it was. And it's kind of sad that that's where we were. And thankfully now we're in a very different world where things are, you know, we're more aware of everybody else and everyone's feelings and what's okay and what's not okay. I think that's great. And I think moving forward, it's awesome, but I don't, I don't, I don't ever look back and get like upset about it, if that makes sense.

But yeah, I mean, the industry is definitely changing in a lot of amazing ways and I'm really looking forward to seeing like how it continues to go because we've made some pretty huge changes that I think were needed, that needed to be made for a while.

[25:32] Alan Seales: Right. And I feel like that also connects to what you said near the beginning too, of the roles that you choose now are challenging. There's something of substance. It's not just showing up in underwear and being like, "Hey, all right, I'm here," and now I'm going home and that was not fulfilling by any means.

[25:48] Katrina Bowden: And I mean like, and like I was getting cast as like the same type of character for a long time. And like, it was great because I was working a lot and I was getting a lot of experience in the process. But at a certain point I was kind of like, well, I can play this kind of character in my sleep. I would rather do something or I'd like to do other things beyond it so that I can really showcase what I can do as an actor and challenge myself and put myself in more difficult roles that made me really dive deep. And that really is what fills me up and makes me happy as a person.

[26:19] Alan Seales: Yeah. I look back too on, let's say 2011, you were voted Esquire's Sexiest Woman Alive, which I feel like is sort of a double-edged sword because on one hand it's a nice career booster, it's recognition. And on the other hand, it literally is pitting women against each other.

[26:38] Katrina Bowden: I know. I know. And like, and the worst part about it is that it was like a voting thing too. So it's not only, yeah, I know. I mean, it was, it was an honor of course, and it was very exciting at the time and you know, it's a cool thing, but you're right. It's like, but women have always been pitted against each other for as long as I can remember. So I guess at the time I didn't think of it that way.

[27:03] Alan Seales: Yeah. Well, I think, I think where your career now is, is beautiful and well-rounded and Great White is, like you said, it's emotional as much as it is jumpy and horror flicky. And I know I read somewhere that you actually don't like horror. Were you trepidatious to watch this when you saw it?

[27:24] Katrina Bowden: I'm okay with watching the horror movies that I'm in. I don't, okay, I don't dislike horror. I'm just such a baby that I get really, really scared and it'll keep me up for nights and nights on end. So it's a little bit easier when I'm in the movie because I'm like, okay, wait, yeah, I remember shooting that. That's fake. That's fake. That's fake. But interestingly enough, having shot horror films, it doesn't make watching another horror movie easier for me because everyone says to me like, well, you shot these, like, you know, it's all fake. How can you be scared? I'm like, I don't know. I'm just, because they do a really good job. It's just scary. So, but no, with Great White, I guess, no, I wasn't scared to watch it.

I was more excited because I really enjoyed shooting it. And I really was curious to see how all of our underwater shots turned out because I had never done anything like that before. And I remember it being such a struggle when we were shooting it. So I was really curious to see how it all looked. And I was pretty pleased when I saw it.

[28:18] Alan Seales: Well, I was at a struggle. I always wonder how many times you have to like stop and go up and catch your breath and come back down again.

[28:25] Katrina Bowden: So we went through scuba training for this movie.

[28:28] Alan Seales: Really?

[28:29] Katrina Bowden: Yeah. So we would, we did scuba training. We had to go, we had to train our breath holds because we had to hold our breath underwater for long periods of time. And we worked so closely with our stunt team and our diving team, because when we were shooting underwater, obviously your director's not underwater with you. He's, you know, up on the land with everybody else. So it was a little hard at times to get the proper notes for what I was supposed to be doing and underwater, you can't see anything unless it's right in front of you. So my eyeline and hitting my marks and swimming into the right area was a challenge. So there was a lot of times where I had to, we had to choreograph it all so perfectly and practice it a lot of times before we actually shot, just so I knew when I was coming up for air, when I was going back down, how I was moving, because like I said, you can't really see like where you're going.

So it was a lot of feeling around and sometimes I feel around and hit a wall. So it just, it wasn't like, it wasn't the easiest thing. It's not like shooting on land. So it was challenging. And there were also other scenes where I'd have to, you know, I'd take a deep breath or I'd take an oxygen breath from the rig. And when your lungs fill with oxygen, your body wants to float to the top of the water. But when we're shooting scenes where we have to be kind of close up or with another actor and you can't really like be moving around too much, they would have to tie weights to our feet to keep us down.

[29:53] Alan Seales: Oh boy. Oh, that's scary. That's so scary.

[29:57] Katrina Bowden: And after I did the first time, I was kind of like, Oh, I'm a little nervous at this. But after doing it a few times, it just became like second nature and it was totally fine. But yeah, there was just, there were a lot of little things like that, that you don't even realize before you're doing it and you're in it, that would be a struggle.

[30:15] Alan Seales: I can completely understand that. And just having weights on my feet, period. I would not want to deal with it at all.

[30:26] Katrina Bowden: I want to touch real quick on the soap opera side of life, because I feel with as fast as soap operas are written and shot, that that is as much sort of a stage production as some stage productions. So knowing what you know about that, and how that feeling is, obviously, you've been on over 200 episodes of Bold and the Beautiful, so it's something that you're not walked away from. So I assume you like it. Do you want to take that and ever go to the stage now? Or should we expect you on a big stage one day soon?

[31:06] Katrina Bowden: You know, before doing Bold and the Beautiful, I don't think I would have been prepared for a big stage production. But like you said, the pace at which the show shoots is so insane. And it is kind of like shooting, more like shooting a theater production than anything else. So yeah, I think I could do it. And I think I would really enjoy it. I dabbled a little bit in some theater in New York, but not a whole lot. And I always had a lot of fun doing it. So I wouldn't say never. If the right opportunity came, I would be happy to dive into something different. It would definitely be a different challenge too.

[31:48] Alan Seales: There's countless times when I've heard people say that, you know, they've started in theater and gotten TV and film, not the other way around. They didn't start the other way. And just the rush of that applause or finishing the two and a half hour run, and like you're emotionally just drained at the end of every single show. But it's the most fulfilling and satisfying feeling that they ever feel. And that's addictive. That's what keeps them coming back.

[32:17] Katrina Bowden: It sounds amazing. Because when you finish a shoot day on a movie, no one's clapping for everybody. They're all just getting out of there. It sounds really nice, actually.

[32:29] Alan Seales: Well, let's wrap up here with three closing questions I ask everybody on the podcast. The first one, very easily, is just what motivates you?

[32:42] Katrina Bowden: Telling beautiful, fun, funny stories and hopefully connecting to people in the process.

[32:50] Alan Seales: All right. Then what advice would you give to your younger self and younger people listening now starting out down a similar path?

[32:55] Katrina Bowden: Stop caring what everyone else thinks so much. I spent so much time caring what everyone thought about me, especially since I was thrust into this comedy world when I was so young. And I felt like I didn't know anything. And I felt like I had to be a certain way to impress people. So if I could go back and change anything, I would just have been myself from the very get-go. And that's the advice I would give.

[33:23] Alan Seales: I like that a lot. All right. So you can take this last question and apply it to any sort of performance medium. If you can only see one show for the rest of your life, but you can see it as many times as you want, what would you see?

[33:35] Katrina Bowden: Oh, my God. This is so hard. I'm probably going to say Sex and the City, just because I have seen it so many times and it never gets old. And it's always funny and entertaining. And I was going to say something like Breaking Bad, because it's one of my favorite shows ever, but it's a little heavy to have to watch all the time. So I think I would choose something like Sex and the City.

[34:06] Alan Seales: All right. I'll take that. And where can we find you online? What are your socials?

[34:14] Katrina Bowden: I'm at Katrina K. Bowden on Instagram. That's where I do mostly everything. I have a Twitter too, but I don't really go on it much. So it won't be worth your time going over there. But Instagram is where I do it all.

[34:24] Alan Seales: All right. You can find more of me at thetheaterpodcast.com. I'm on Instagram and Twitter at theater underscore podcast. Please leave a rating and a review wherever you're listening now. This has been edited by Well Read and Hoodlum Productions. Jukebox the Ghost provided the intro and outro music and Katrina Bowden provided the wonderful conversation. Thank you so much.

[34:43] Katrina Bowden: Thank you so much for having me. This was fun.