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[0:00] Alan Seales: Welcome back to The Theatre Podcast. Intimate personal conversations with the industry's biggest names. Today's guest is Cassie Beck, who just started the tour of What The Constitution Means to Me. This show, if you didn't see it on Broadway, run to go see it wherever it is playing in your closest city. Right now, as we recorded this, it started in Minneapolis, and it's going to tons of major cities, Chicago, Boston, Detroit, Princeton, Dallas, Nashville, more, more, more. Go see it. She's actually a personal friend of Heidi Schreck's, and they worked so well, so closely together to translate it out of Heidi's story and make it Cassie's story, but still make it Heidi's story, but make it Cassie's story.

She's an amazing human, who you may know from The Humans. So before we get into the interview, as always, find me online on Instagram and Twitter at Theatre underscore Podcast. Leave a rating and a review. Hit me up on Patreon. Let me know you're listening. And now, everybody, please enjoy this episode with Cassie Beck.

[1:13] Alan Seales: My guest today is a star of stage and screen whose previous credits include the recent revival of The Rose Tattoo and the original cast of The Humans on Broadway. And on TV, she's got credits with Pose, Elementary, Connecting, and Chicago Med. This fall, she will be busy leading the national tour of the direct-from-Broadway, boundary-breaking play, What the Constitution Means to Me, and the much-anticipated Amazon Prime series, I Know What You Did Last Summer. She can currently be seen opposite Mark Wahlberg in the feature film, Joe Bell. Cassie Beck, welcome to The Theatre Podcast.

[1:51] Cassie Beck: Thank you so much. Nice to be here, Alan.

[1:53] Alan Seales: You're so welcome. And it's so nice to see you this morning. And right before we were recording, you were saying that you had your first audience last night for Constitution?

[2:06] Cassie Beck: Sure did. First preview, first show back, first time back in the theatre. It was incredible. My first line is, it's so good to see you. As you know, Constitution really breaks the fourth wall. It's a direct relationship to the audience. So I got to walk out in full light. And I'm not going to lie, I teared up. They would not stop clapping.

[2:36] Alan Seales: And this is in Minneapolis, yeah?

[2:38] Cassie Beck: This is at the Guthrie, yep, in Minneapolis. We're kicking off the tour here. And they were so rowdy. I could hear them over the monitor before I went out. I was like, oh, they're rowdy. They're ready to be here. And that, which I, we anticipated the excitement of, you know, it's the first time, I think it's an 18 months that there's been a show at the Guthrie. So, and we are, Constitution is the only straight play on tour right now. So I don't know. I was shocked when I heard that, but it just, it just was thrilling to feel like, you know, we're representing Broadway out here and people are stoked. And I knew it would be an electric moment, but I walked out and I was just, just me and I'm standing there in front of all of them with the house lights completely up and they would not stop clapping.

And I had to make them stop. And I started crying and I said, you're going to make me cry. And I haven't even started yet. But what a welcome and just, just an electric night in the theater. I just was, I mean, I'm still, I'm still basking in it. It just was, it was fun and important and deep and meaningful and all the feels. It just was incredible.

[3:54] Alan Seales: Was, I guess, did you see Constitution with Heidi Schreck when it was here in the city?

[4:00] Cassie Beck: Oh yeah. New York, New York, Joplin.

[4:01] Alan Seales: Right, right. So, so 18 months has happened between then and now and our country has changed. I don't know if it's for better or for worse yet. I've yet to decide, but like we're, we're always evolving. 18 months is a long time in the political climate now. So seeing what Heidi did with it versus what you're doing with it now, does it, is the message still the same or, or like, has it, did you work with her and the directing team to, to adapt it? And, and also I know this is like a bajillion part question, but she, she spoke personally, like this is my story. So you as not her telling this story, how has it been adapted and changed for you?

[4:45] Cassie Beck: Yeah. Okay. I think I can, I think I can break down all those things. So let's start with the current political climate. Heidi is still writing on the play. She's been in rehearsals. So she is with us and we are old friends. I've worked on her plays before. And, um, and then we have a personal friendship as well. I saw it at New York Theater Workshop and I loved it. I was blown away by it and her performance. I just thought it was just the perfect night. I think I saw it the night Brett Kavanaugh, uh, was, I never know what's the exact term when you, I was like, you're not, it was an elected nominate, not nominated, but when you like approved into this report, um,

[5:34] Cassie Beck: Ratified. No, not ratified. I know it's on the tip of my tongue. Confirmed. Confirmed. Oh, duh. Yeah. When he was confirmed, um, after he had his call back and was cast in this report, uh, I saw, I saw the show that night. Um, and it was incredible. And so when the play kind of came around to me, I've told this story before, but I just was like, no, why am I touching that with how perfect that was for me? You know, just selfishly, I just was like, no, I want it to remain in my memory and in the world, the way I saw it with Heidi. And then I was like, well, let me read it. And I read it. And, and Heidi is a constant playwright. She, as much as a performer, she is a writer. And, um, I was like, Oh, this is a play.

Um, when I, when I was able to kind of take the performance out of my head and just read it in black and white, I saw that it was a play. And of course it is, um, because she's an excellent writer and the structure was there. And I started to kind of hear myself, I kind of see myself suddenly in it. And it's just like a character, you know, I am playing Heidi. I am still telling her story, but just like any character, you know, you're stepping in and bringing yourself to the role. Um, I will never be Heidi, but I will never be any character that I embody completely. I have to bring myself to the story and this is no different. And, uh, what she's done, I feel like is she's built this kind of every woman in a way.

And, uh, with its specificity comes the universality. We, we all know this, the theater, that's why telling an intimate story can be so powerful because people really can through your story, discover themselves. And that's what I've been able to do. Heidi spends a lot of time talking about her kind of matriarchal line, her mother, her grandmother and her great great grandmother. And I found that I was able to bring my, the ghosts of my mother and my grandmother and my great great grandmother on stage with me. And even though I am telling a story that's specific to Heidi's family, I'm imbuing it with my family history and what I know to be true about those women in my life as well. Um, as far as the politics, I think, yes, a lot has changed.

Um, the show is changing with it. We are for people who've seen the show, they'll know that the second, the second half is a debate, a live debate. Um, and there, especially we are really focusing on what's happening right now. Um, in the play itself, there is some time spent on Roe versus Wade and Roe v. Wade, um, a lot to do with kind of abortion law and, um, and the ninth amendment and the 14th amendment, especially. And I guess I'll just say, as long as the ninth amendment and the 14th amendment are relevant, we're going to have something to talk about. And I don't think those two things are going out of style anytime soon.

[8:49] Alan Seales: There's a lot. So those who don't know, what are the ninth and the 14th amendment?

[8:53] Cassie Beck: Oh my gosh. Uh, uh, the ninth amendment is, um, what Heidi describes as a penumbra. Um, nobody really knows what it means. Although it, it was, uh, the amendment that was used to make the case in Roe v. Wade that, uh, that, uh, doctor and patient have a right to privacy and that right to privacy is what, uh, the right to have an abortion falls under. And so the ninth amendment was used to, um, gain that, that, that right for women. And, and so that's ninth amendment primarily is what we talk. That's what we talk about in the show. 14th amendment basically encapsulates all your human rights. Um, it's, uh, so again, anytime we're talking about any kind of human rights, we're talking about the 14th amendment.

We're talking, you know, uh, equal protection clause, due process clause. Um, we go into it in the show in a very entertaining, humorous, funny way, full of emotion. It's not, it's not just a dry constitution lesson. Uh, there's a lot, there's a lot to enjoy about the show, but right now Roe v. Wade, maybe, you know, back in the headlines and coming up into our consciousness in the Supreme Court here soon, there's the Texas abortion bill. Um, all of these things are addressed in the second half of the play is what I was saying in the, in the debate section. We're really making sure that we, um, make those arguments and we have some sharp, sharp debaters who have important things to say and opinions about, uh, their take on what's happening with the constitution and with our future right now. So they're keeping me on my toes.

[11:06] Alan Seales: I was, I'm looking at your, the, the, some of the cities that the tour is going to go through. And of course you mentioned your, your opening in Minneapolis, but it's going to hit Chicago, Boston, Detroit, Princeton, Dallas, Nashville, more and more and more. I was looking for Texas cities. Dallas is in there. So have you and the team talked yet about, uh, I guess, goodness, maybe protests, maybe like angry audience members, like politics are of course really dividing right now, but in like in the arts, I guess that maybe the people who would come see the show wouldn't necessarily be the ones who would disagree with the message of the show. But have you, have you talked about the various audiences in the various cities specifically about this kind of thing yet?

[11:39] Cassie Beck: Uh and not, not about audience members. We've talked about, you know, making sure that we are topical with what's happening. I mean, we definitely have our eye on Texas. We have our eye on the Mississippi band as well, um, even Nashville. Yeah, but I sort of feel, I sort of feel like it's really a galvanizing force. Um, there are going to be some people in Texas who are really going to need this support that this play offers. Um, and I think, I think for people who, I do think it's going to be a little self-selecting, you know, the audiences that come and don't, but you know, even if you don't agree with the politics in a lot of ways, I do feel, I still feel like there is, everybody has a role to play in equality.

And that's at the heart of what's being told here and I do think there's a chance to open some hearts and change some minds. And like the end is a debate and we really do argue both sides of the debate. There is civil discourse on display here and it's a lot of what we don't have right now and there's something very moving and wonderful about watching people argue both sides of something articulately and, uh, with passion. It just shows that we can listen to each other and hear another side and even the character of Heidi through the whole play, she doesn't have answers. Um, she's trying to understand, she's asking questions, she's trying to put things together. She's talking about the penumbra, she's talking about the gray area of life and, um, you can come in with one view or the other but really the questions are still what's up in the air here.

This is about investigating and getting better. Um, we're asking our government and our systems and our country to do better. And, um, I think the pursuit of true equality is not partisan. We just, we, it's just something that, uh, we have to continue to fight for every day. So no matter what side you're on, I think it's, uh, I think there's information here that is interesting and a touching story that is human.

[14:23] Alan Seales: But hasn't the quest for equality become a partisan issue because both the opposing sides are, are both, well, maybe one side more than the other, convinced that they know better on behalf of everybody else, right? So I'm not a political person. I mean, I'm, I, I'm obviously following what's going on, but like I don't like to get into political debates. Um, but, um, maybe, okay, maybe this is a bit of white cis male privilege talking and I want to acknowledge that and I, I haven't had to deal with the issues that a lot of my peers have had to deal with. And I'm always like, let it, I'm, I'm just always about everyone should have their own choice and it's their bodies, they should do what they want.

Um, and I've never had to deal with the fact that I have to fight for a right to make a decision about my own body and I acknowledge, I acknowledge that privilege and I acknowledge that I, and whatnot, but I guess I don't know what my question is, but I, you know, you were saying that the fight for equality is non-partisan, but I, I see it should be, it should be not, yes, it should be. Okay. Yeah, we'll say it should be non-partisan, but it has become this partisan thing. So it's, it's, it's interesting to me, I guess how both, both sides of this are approaching it and it just dates back to this archaic way of trying to control people.

[16:01] Cassie Beck: For sure. And it's really frustrating. It's really absolutely frustrating and I, I'm, have you talked to Heidi about, or has she told you what to expect in terms of like feedback? She received when she was doing the run of like negative things or positive things even like, you know, did you sit down and over a bottle of wine and say like, listen, this is, this might happen to you? Because it happened to me.

[16:23] Alan Seales: Well, we sat down over Zoom and had, and had this conversation. Um, yes, and look, I, I hear what you're saying. I, I, I'm not saying I don't know if it's a play for everyone. I, I like to think so because I think some people just don't know. They think they know, but you don't know what you don't know, right? And this play's got statistics and, and not alongside a personal story, some real, some facts about, and some statistics about what's actually going on in the country and how many people are affected, um, and not protected by this document. And I think it can be eye-opening to just to discover these things, um, for a lot of people. But I did talk to her about it and, you know, I, I think for the most part, it's a pretty, it's a pretty energizing kind of galvanizing experience.

She got a lot of, um, I think support and some people who did, who didn't realize where we were as a country on with, with these rights, um, who thought they knew and then discovered, you know, wow, we, we didn't really know. Um, she did say that there, I think she, you know, she probably got some Twitter trolls. I think that was sort of where, where she found the most of them is, is coming out online, um, which I anticipate too, but you know, yeah, I, I wonder if people are gonna be able to separate the person from the character too. Um, I forget, I totally forget her name right now. Um, Anna Gunn who played, you know, Skylar on, on Breaking Bad, right? I talked to her once and she said she got so much hate online for being this horrible person. And she's like, you realize I'm, I'm an actor playing a role, right? Like I am not Skylar White. I am Anna Gunn.

[18:29] Cassie Beck: Yeah, so, so obviously like maybe Heidi's a little bit different because she wrote it and, and she was playing the character. But now, you know, you, Cassie, are playing the character that Heidi has created. So I'm, I'm, I know for those listening, always remember that the character is separate from the actor. That, that although it is confusing in this one because Heidi, Heidi was playing Heidi, you know, I mean, Heidi was being herself and there is no character of Heidi except for me. I have to make character of Heidi so that I can step into it. But Heidi was being Heidi and that's what's so crazy, that's so amazing about this play and crazy and brave and bold and raw is that she did just go out there and say, no, this, this is what's happening.

We need to wake up to all of this and I'm going to use myself. I'm going to walk through these questions. I'm going to walk through this emotion right in front of you in real time and I'm going to ask you to do the same. And just like any relationship that is important to you, you have a relationship with the Constitution and you have a civic duty and if it's important to you like any good relationship, you're going to spend some time thinking about it and you're going to spend some time working on it. And here, let me demonstrate how to do that for 90 minutes. And I don't have the, and she's like, I don't have the answers, but this is where we are.

[19:51] Alan Seales: How, how I love that, that there's that there are kids involved, right, that are part of the debate and you know, Heidi, Heidi herself, um, raised her college tuition debating, doing Constitution debates when she was in high school. So like it's important to get the younger generation involved in this and in this country too. I think there's two things that are completely lacking, maybe three, um, financial education, um, political education aside from, you know, we, we hear like here's how our country was founded and founding funders did all this, founding fathers did all those great things, you know, but you ignore all the, all the land and disease that we stole and gave to people. Um, but, but yeah, so political, political education, financial education and sexual education, I think are completely lacking as a standard across this country.

But in terms of, of getting young people involved, I think that's, that's part of one of my favorite things about Constitution is because it's, it's making it accessible, especially for, for young people of color too, which being a woman and being a woman of color in this country are not two of the easier things to be.

[21:06] Cassie Beck: Right, right, right. Yeah, it's incredible that the young people, we have two debaters with us on, on tour and, you know, they come in with their own style and they come in with their own stories and, and, uh, it's Emeline Toffler and Jocelyn Shuck and they are killing it. And I, and it is, I remember when I saw it, uh, when Heidi did it at New York Theater Workshop and when, um, the debater turned the corner is actually when I lost it in the audience because it's so hopeful to hear these articulate, um, young women and, uh, young people, not just, not just young women, young people, um, so passionate about, about their futures and where we're going and what's right and wrong. And, um, gosh, they know so, they're so smart and they know so much more than, they know so much more about the Constitution than I do, uh, but it's, it's inspiring really, it's hopeful.

I love the accessibility that the, that this brings and, and there's, there's a lot of, uh, I mean in general, right? I'm gonna take a, uh, uh, a step back big picture, you're looking at art, art heals, art educates, art informs. Art can, especially theater and musical theater too. But, um, like last night I literally just went and saw Six for the third time and, and that's, that's a history lesson about Henry the Eighth and again, antiquated ways of how women are only valued by who they're married to, right? It's, it's this bigger message that it's, it's fun, it's comedic, but yet at the walking out you're like, oh, yeah, there's more, there's more to this. And so Constitution did this. I mean even look at the difference Hamilton is making in the industry right and, and then as a, as an educational form, they're busing in students and they're making sure that it's as accessible as it can be because, uh, um, Broadway prices, um, ticket prices exclude a lot of people who need to hear, hear the message.

[23:16] Cassie Beck: So I just love when these things start to do social good outside of just trying to do ticket sales on Broadway. You know what I mean? Sure. Yeah. Yeah. And, and, you know, the politics of the show are the politics of the people who made it. And so there's a huge consciousness around all of these issues, you know, accessibility. It's crazy that we're going out on tour and we're going to all the cities where Heidi traveled at age 15 and got all her prize money to go to college to get the education that ended up making this play. And now we're turning a full circle and we're going back to those cities. Here's what we learned. You know, here's what we learned. And, um, it is amazing. Last night we had a real mix of ages.

I mean, several generations in that audience. So we had, you know, our wonderfully, um, angry blue-haired ladies who, uh, who I feel like, uh, kind of lived through a lot of what maybe Heidi's mom and grandma went through recognizing themselves, seeing themselves up on that stage. There's people of my generation recognizing themselves and seeing themselves on stage. And then, like you said, there's young people coming on and everything in between. And, and I have to say it, it, it was amazing to hear their responses because it really was in different parts of the show. I could hear whole groups of people, um, identifying with certain parts of the show. And, uh, it was great. It was, it was fantastic. And, and because we're all just in there in a room together, we're all sharing this together. It really does speak to a broad range of people.

[25:00] Alan Seales: We're going to take a short break. Stay tuned for more of the episode.

[25:15] Alan Seales: I want to actually now back out and talk about you, Cassie, because I want to know what got you into theater? Where, where did you, where did you see the bug? Did you go see a show when you were a kid, like Constitution and you're like, I want to do that?

[25:33] Cassie Beck: Uh, well, yes, when I was eight years old, I saw, uh, The Music Man at the Redlands Bowl, which is where I grew up in Redlands, California. And I like wanted to punch that girl playing Amaryllis and step into her, I was like, let me add it. Um, I need to get on that stage. I grew up dancing. Really. I was mostly a dancer until high school. And then I did my first show, um, in high school, really my first play, I kind of came out at late and it's funny. This actually circles back to Constitution because one of the things that Heidi's doing for all the people that play Heidi is she gives them a breakout moment to talk, to say, I'm not really Heidi. I'm, I'm Cassie. And this is the story I tell in the play, actually, as, um, the first play that I did in high school.

And, and, uh, I grew up mostly in California in a military family, but when I was 15, my dad, uh, got a job in Mississippi. And so we, we moved to a small, small rural town in Mississippi and I was in culture shock for sure. And, uh, this drama clubs got started at this high school that I dropped into in the middle of being 15 and all that comes with that. And I joined that drama club and we did a play and we won the state competition and we won the regional competition. Then we got to go all the way to the national competition. And I don't really think this high school or this town knew what to do with this, uh, this like drama club that was suddenly like winning stuff. Not that I believe that art should be competitive, but you know, that's how it was at the time.

And I remember when we won the nationals, we came back and like the town had lined the streets and they had posters and they were like, they were like, welcome, welcome us back in. Like we were a sports team. We were a sports team, you know, it sounds like a ticker tape parade. And I was like, Oh, Oh, this is happening. Okay. Um, but that's, that's when I really got the bug for acting. I wanted to dance and be in musicals, but, uh, I ended up going to the University of Memphis, uh, for undergrad and they didn't do musicals really. They, they did mostly, they were, they were very, um, play centered and kind of all genres like they're, you know, they were doing Greek tragedy and all kinds of things.

And I came, I always felt really behind. Um, when I got there, a lot of the other students had gone to the governor's school in Tennessee and had done all the summer camps and they'd read all the Shakespeare plays and like, you know, they were serious. And I came in and I was like, I've been in Guys and Dolls and high school, you know? Um, but so I was, I always felt a little behind and it's funny, you know, I actually did not get cast until my junior year. I did a lot of like, um, smaller projects with the director, with the grad directing, the MFA directing students, but not, not the quote unquote main stage until. And so, you know, I had two years where I really, it was humbling. I was learning a lot.

And, um, and then it kind of, I kind of got my feet underneath. And I started figuring some stuff out. And after I graduated, I went to a training program called the Warehouse in Greenville, South Carolina. Um, and I worked with, uh, with 11 other kind of students slash company. We, it was a semi-professional company. So we did do, um, performances of the full season, but we were also in class and training. And then I got my first professional gig at the Napa Valley Shakespeare Festival. Um, I just went to the Bay Area and did a general audition out of nowhere out of, I flew myself out from South Carolina. I did it. I didn't want to go to New York. I didn't want to go to LA, but I kind of wanted to get back towards California.

That's where my family was. Um, so, you know, grew up in California, spent a little time in the South, went headed back to California, no designs on New York ever. Really. I don't know why I think I was scared of it. Probably didn't really know that much about it. Um, cut to, I ended up staying in the Bay Area for about eight years. I did a lot of like basement theater, you know, a lot of more experimental stuff that was, we were doing like Naomi Wallace and Eric N and Lisa DeMore and, um, really interesting cool stuff with a, especially with a theater company called Crowded Fire Theatre Company. Um, I was one of asked to join their ensemble. So for I think five or six years, I was a part of the acting ensemble there.

And that was fantastic. What was ended up happening is San Francisco is sort of this hotbed for new work. Um, they have what they call the Barrier Playwrights Festival and every year, um, you know, New York writers and local writers there would bring their new plays. And I, for whatever reason, just got a crash course in new play development there. Um, a lot of the regional theaters are Berkeley Rep as well. Theater Works in Palo Alto. Um, they're working on new, new plays. And so kind of by accident, that's the way my career went. And, uh, I became friends with Adam Bach who, uh, was who lived in the Bay Area for a while, but had been in New York for a bit. And he wrote a role for me in a play called The Drunken City.

And then Playwrights Horizons picked that play up and he said, well, I have somebody and they brought me out to do the workshop. And that was, I swear to God, that was the second time I had ever been in New York. I went, my mom took me for a graduation trip when I graduated from college. And I, that's the only time I'd ever been in New York. And so here I am, and I'm showing up at Playwrights Horizons and do a reading and, um, did this reading with Sujin Kim and Maria Dizzia, you know? And like, I didn't know who any, I just was so naive. I miss those days. I was so naive. I didn't know anything. I didn't know what to be scared of. So I wasn't scared. That's the best. I know. When you don't know how hard something is.

So you just go do it and then you look back and you're like, holy shit. I know. Totally. I did. And Trip Coleman directed. And, uh, okay. And then I got to do it. And so at this point also, uh, back at Crowded Fire in San Francisco, the founding artistic director had stepped down and I stepped in as artistic director. So I had just taken over as artistic director of the small grungy theater company. And then I was like, uh, I'm going to go do this play real fast in New York and I'm coming right back. And, um, that didn't happen. I got, I got to New York and, uh, I got cast in a couple of other shows and I just, my husband was like, you know, just write it out and see if you get an agent, then, then you should stay for a year and just we'll see.

And so all that ended up happening and then cut to, we ended up moving. Um, but Crowded Fire is doing well. I just want to plug it because it is still, it's, it's fantastic. It's doing, it's doing great. It's lived on and I've gone through a couple of artistic directors now and they're fantastic.

[33:18] Alan Seales: Oh, awesome. What's the website where people can check it out?

[33:21] Cassie Beck: Crowdedfire.org.

[33:22] Alan Seales: There you go. Um, so then at what point does, does the TV and film start to creep its way in? Because a lot of your credits, a lot of the credits film here in New York. Um, but, uh, I was looking at the other thing, like this, this stuff that's coming out now. Um, I Know What You Did Last Summer, of course, is this much anticipated, uh, modern take on the 1997 horror film that of course is around the same thing. So where did the TV and film side come into all this?

[33:56] Cassie Beck: Oh my God. So I had no training on, on camera. I'm like, I feel like I'm the end of a generation for whom, you know, you kind of, you kind of felt like you could just do a theater career somehow. Now I have so much respect for the young people who show up in New York at 18, 20, 22, because I do think the expectation now is that you can do some crossover stuff. And I never had, you know, in my BFA and even extra theater training, I never had on camera work on camera training and back to The Drunken City. I remember we opened and, uh, my little face was in the New York Times and I, and I was sleeping on a, I was subletting and I was sleeping on somebody's futon. And the day after it opened, my phone rang and I, and I answered it and it was Law and Order wanting me to come.

[34:55] Cassie Beck: I hope when they call you, it always starts with dun-dun. There's dun-dun-dun. That's how I knew who it was. And they called to ask if I, you know, and I didn't have an agent. I didn't have any representation. So they're just calling me straight up on my cell phone, you know, like back in the day, like, can you, can you come in tomorrow? And I was like, I don't even know what this is. And it was terrifying. And I never did get on a Law and Order. I've never been on a Law and Order. I'm one of those theater actors that's never been on a Law and Order. But, um, yeah, it kind of slowly, it started to answer your question. It kind of, it came slowly. I got some auditions kind of right away off, off just, I think being kind of the new, a new person in New York.

And, you know, I came to New York when I was 30. I didn't come when I was 18 or 20. So I was, I had a little bit of experience and a little bit of grounding, but not for TV and film. I did not know how to do any of that stuff. Um, and so I started taking some classes and I just kind of slowly, uh, started to figure it out. I have to say, I feel like with the self-tape situation, I have fared much better. I, I, I've kind of figured out the self-tape, um, which has helped in the last couple of years. And yeah, I know what you did last summer was a self-tape. Uh, Joe Bell was a self-tape. Um, a lot of what I've booked has been, has been that. So there is hope out there for people who feel like you're making self-tapes and sending them out to the void. Same girl, same, but every now and then it happens. Um, I know what you did last summer shot in Hawaii.

[36:37] Alan Seales: Really?

[36:38] Cassie Beck: Yeah. That sounds really hard.

[36:40] Alan Seales: I know it was awful. Everyone's going to hate me. I'm going to turn off the podcast at this point. Uh, I, uh, yeah, I, I was married there and I'd been there several times. I hadn't been back since, um, I think 2007. And I think it was originally going to shoot in LA, but then because of the pandemic and the way, uh, COVID was working, um, it was safer actually in, in Oahu. So we went for safety Island. And, uh, yeah. And then when I got it, they said, Oh, so six months in Oahu. So I got to, I got to fly out and take my dog and, you know, be out there and shoot. We were, we shot all over that Island. It was crazy fun. Um, I was nervous in a lot of ways because they don't have a ton of experience, but I've got to say every experience I've had has been amazing.

And the New York shows too, I got to do Pose with Patti LuPone. Um, so like amazing, uh, you know, Elementary was with all those guys and that was fun. And I did The Humans for a long time with Sarah Steele and, you know, learned all about the good life and got to ask my questions. So, you know, leaning on our, leaning on our friends to helps when you're in these situations, uh, you know, you're, you're kind of, obviously you have the talent to be where you are, otherwise you wouldn't be there. But when you're first coming into these moments and you were around, you know, you're going into Pose and you're, you're in a scene with, with Patti LuPone and you're in this movie opposite Mark Wahlberg and these people that just we've known about and watched and seen forever.

And then all of a sudden you're with them. Do you have this moment of like, wow, I shouldn't be here? Or do you, are you like, this is it. This is, you know, I'm buckling down. And of course, you know, I guess bring it full circle to what we said earlier was if you knew how hard it was, you wouldn't have done it, but now you're there. So you have to do it.

[38:38] Cassie Beck: Yeah. I, you know, I don't, I don't freak out until after. I don't know what it is about me. I, I'm a very late bloomer. It takes me a long time to process stuff. I kind of show up and I'm like, well, I'm here and I'm showing up and I'm doing it and I, and I've prepared and I'm here and then I do it. And then later I'm like shaking in the bathtub, you know, like, I can't believe that just happened. Um, yeah, I, the story with Patti LuPone is actually great because, uh, we know each other a little bit, um, from The Humans. We, you know, I got to go do it in London as well. And she was there doing Company at the time. So our whole cast went to see Company and got to go backstage and sit in our dressing room with Michael Cours for a little while.

Um, and so I know her a bit, not, not a ton, but a bit. And so she had a recurring role, an arc on Pose, but that day that I shot with her was her first day on set and her first scene. And so we were in the trailer together doing makeup and hair. And I remind, you know, I just reintroduced myself and said, hi. And she recognized me, which was a relief. And then I actually think it was sort of a kind of, um, universal kind of meeting moments, spiritual special moment for us, because I think she was nervous, you know? And it's like, she's this legend and she's this amazing person, of course, and this amazing actor and has so much experience, but they're all just people. And that's my answer to your question about like Mark Wahlberg and all these people.

Like how I remember it is because I see their humanity. They're just, they're just, they're just us, you know, we're all the same. And she at one point was like, I'm so glad you're here because I was another theater person, you know, that she kind of knew a little bit and had a little grounding with, you know, and, and there's a sea of faces that she doesn't know and, and all the cameras on her and she's Patti LuPone walking in and there's like, and I got to be that little person for her that just kind of, I don't know if she ever needed it, could be a little anchor, you know, for her of familiarity. And you know, and then they put her in this amazing costume. Then they hand her two dogs, two little dogs.

And they're like, here's two little dogs and sit and now monologue go. And I was like, Oh, I'm here for you, Patti. I'm right here. I'm here for you, whatever you need. And she looks up and she's like, do I look okay? And I'm like, yes, you look amazing. You're doing amazing. So I think that's one thing to just remember, you know, with casting directors too, or, or directors, or anytime you're in a situation with somebody where there's a perceived either like power balance or maybe like a fangirling going on. Just, just remember they're just people too.

[42:38] Alan Seales: I wonder, and I haven't actually thought about this in a long time. I used to think about this, is the people like Patti LuPone or, you know, like, like your Mark Wahlbergs or even, you know, Katrina Lenk are these famous people in the industry and whatever industry they're in. I wonder, and you've worked with these people and you were just saying, you're speaking to this a little bit, but I wonder the pressure that they feel like Meryl Streep, right? You, you just expect everybody, the world expects her to just get Oscar nominations falling out of her ass. So the fact that she walks in and she's like, oh God, I got to make this one as good as the last one. I got to make this one better than the last one.

I got to, and you know, Patti, right, is saying, am I, do I, do I look okay? I'm glad you're here. I'm, you know, obviously she's getting a little nervous. Do you, have you seen this and do you experience it too, a little bit where you're like, okay, I'm here. I've been doing this for a long time, but there's still the pressure to perform and be as good or better every single time? Or you just kind of say like, screw it, I'm going with it.

[43:42] Cassie Beck: I think it's both. It just depends on the day. It's where I'm at. You know, I don't believe you're only as good as your last performance. I don't, I don't believe that. I don't think that's true. I think we're in a evolution all the time and we're in a process all the time and that, and I think actors have bad days, you know, like just like everybody. I mean, I love reality cooking shows because I feel like that's a bit, that's, that shows, you know, you can see these great, great chefs that just like cannot handle the challenge or cannot handle competition, but they're great chefs, you know, and actors are great actors and sometimes they're not right for everything or, or every moment, you know? And so, so I don't believe I have to be better than what I did before. I think I just have to be as good as I can possibly be in this moment every time.

[43:58] Alan Seales: I love that answer. That's a beautiful answer. And I think that is a wonderful place to transition into our final three questions that I ask everybody to wrap up the episodes. The very first one, just very simply, is what motivates you?

[44:06] Cassie Beck: I think, I think personal challenge. I, curiosity.

[44:11] Alan Seales: And then second question then, if you could give advice to your younger self and younger people listening now starting out down a similar path, what would you say?

[44:15] Cassie Beck: I would say, uh, go where you can get better, go where you can do your best work. Um, I was given that advice as a young person. That's why I didn't come to New York right away. Um, I knew that I was going to do better in an ensemble situation and a smaller city with time. And that's just the way my process was. I'm kind of where my training was at. And, um, I didn't want to go to New York and kill what I loved. And I knew I wasn't ready.

[44:51] Alan Seales: Yeah. Okay. So last question, this is the hardest one. If you can only see one show for the rest of your life, but you can see it as many times as you want, what would you see?

[45:01] Cassie Beck: Oh, that's a new one. A new, a new answer.

[45:02] Alan Seales: Oh yeah.

[45:03] Cassie Beck: Yeah. I think it's brilliant.

[45:19] Alan Seales: Oh gosh. I'm, I'm evaluating now. I'm thinking back towards the answers before the pandemic, the most common answer was Sweeney Todd. And I haven't heard that from, from hardly anybody since the pandemic. And I wonder if that's because like people want more optimism. What is the answer? What is the answer post pandemic?

[45:38] Cassie Beck: It's all over the place.

[45:39] Alan Seales: Oh yeah.

[45:40] Cassie Beck: Yeah. It's really all over the place, but yeah.

[45:43] Alan Seales: Interesting. Okay. So where can we find you online or maybe Strange Loop?

[45:46] Cassie Beck: Oh, Ooh. Ooh. Yes. That's a new, a new, new one. I like that.

[45:53] Alan Seales: Yes. So where can we find you online? What are your socials?

[45:58] Cassie Beck: I'm at Cassie Baxter. I'm kind of across the board and Cassie Beck on Insta.

[46:03] Alan Seales: Great. I am online at thetheaterpodcast.com. You can find me on Instagram at Twitter at theater underscore podcast, leave a rating and a review wherever you're listening. This has been edited by Well-Rounded Hoodlum Productions, music by Jukebox the Ghost and conversation by Cassie Beck. Thank you so much for being here.

[46:19] Cassie Beck: Thank you. My pleasure.