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[0:00] Alan Seales: Welcome back to The Theatre Podcast. Intimate personal conversations with the industry's biggest names. Our guest today is the marvelous Mr. Miasel. Joel Miasel actually is his character. Michael Zegen plays Joel Miasel on The Marvelous Mrs. Maisel. He is on Broadway again, in the amazing breakout play, Trouble in Mind, which had its original off-Broadway debut in 1955, was optioned to come to Broadway, and through some reasons that we get into in the episode, didn't have its Broadway debut until now, this year, 2021. It's an amazing show. Go see it. It's playing now. Make sure to find me online on Instagram and Twitter at Theatre Underscore Podcast. Leave a rating and a review. And now, everybody, please enjoy this episode with Michael Zegen.

Our guest today may be most well-known for his various roles on TV, including Joel Miasel on The Marvelous Mrs. Maisel and Damien Keefe on Rescue Me, in addition to various roles on Boardwalk Empire, The Walking Dead, and Girls. He also has lots of stage experience, having made his Broadway debut in A View from the Bridge from 2015, and he is currently on the Broadway stage again, opposite LaChanze, in the amazing breakout play, Trouble in Mind. Michael Zegen, welcome to The Theatre Podcast.

[1:30] Michael Zegen: Thank you. Glad to be here. I want to dive straight into Trouble in Mind, because there is so much to cover. I saw the play about a week and a half ago, and was just blown away. And if it was not set with period costumes, obviously, you can tell it's set in the 40s, 50s, like an older time period, right? Because that's stylistically how it was presented. But if it was put on in a modern set with modern clothing, the story is very applicable to now. And that is not a good thing.

[2:08] Alan Seales: Yeah. I mean, even if it was set during that time period, but written now, you'd still believe it. It's pretty remarkable.

[2:15] Michael Zegen: Yeah. I mean, it's kind of sad. It's just, nothing's changed. So for those who don't quite understand what we're talking about yet, Trouble in Mind, written by Alice Childress, is a playwright. She was a black woman playwright. When was it originally written?

[2:36] Alan Seales: 1955.

[2:46] Michael Zegen: 1955, right. That's when the first incarnation of it was produced, Off-Broadway.

[2:52] Alan Seales: Right. So 1955, Off-Broadway was optioned to come to Broadway, and the white male producers wanted her to rewrite the ending to make white men, your character, seem more likable, more favorable, and she wouldn't do it. So now, after her death, here in 2021, is the Broadway premiere of her play written in 1955.

[3:14] Michael Zegen: Right. That is insane. And it's bittersweet because, actually, our lighting designer worked with Alice towards the end of her life. I guess she had done the last few plays of hers, and she talked to us and she said that Alice, I guess, towards the end of her life, she felt like she had to get this play especially to Broadway. She wanted something of hers to go to Broadway because none of her plays had ever reached Broadway. I think she has a good amount. She wrote like 10 plays, and none of them reached Broadway. And she just felt like she had to do it. She had to get it done, and she didn't. She died years, I think, in '94. And so, yeah, I mean, it's bittersweet. It's a beautiful thing, but it is kind of sad that she didn't live to see it.

[4:16] Alan Seales: I guess there are obviously some very heavy racial topics that are still dealt with, that we're dealing with today that, of course, were written about in the play, that you're dealing with in the play. How, as a cast, as real people, as Michael and LaChanze and Chuck Cooper and the other amazing individuals in the cast, some white and some black, how did all of you work with the production team to really approach this as individuals? I guess, for you, your character of Al Manners is a product of the times. I don't want to say he's mean just to be mean, but he's mean because that's how white men acted at that time. So how did you all approach that as a cast and as individuals when creating the whole show?

[5:08] Michael Zegen: You know, I mean, it's really all there on the page. There's not much I can do. We don't have the playwright in the room to help us along. So it's really, you just kind of have to follow the script. I mean, yeah, sure, it's a product of the times. He is the kind of personification of white privilege, what little we know about him. And yeah, I guess it also helps having a black director and black actors with us in the rehearsal room so that somebody like me does feel okay with saying the things that I'm saying, because it would be tough if that wasn't the case. When you see the play, you'll see, I mean, I say some horrible things.

[6:03] Alan Seales: Right, right. And I guess there's, this speaks to you as an actor too, because it comes across, I don't walk out of the play angry with you, angry with Al Manners. I walk out thinking as a more global, I guess a more existential topic of like, this has to change. We've literally, 1955, this was written and we're still dealing with these similar issues now. And it's really not that great. Sorry, for those who don't know what the play is about, it's about a play being put on, I mean, it's a play within a play. It's about this new play coming to Broadway. And it's the play itself, the play within the play is about a lynching in the South. And my character is this white director who's come from Hollywood to make his Broadway debut directing this play.

And the play has some big parts for black actors, but the kind of the entire time these black actors are kind of lamenting the fact that they're relegated to stereotypes. And that's pretty much it. I mean, there's more to it, obviously, but that's kind of a little bit of a description.

[7:38] Michael Zegen: No, it's really interesting to see, especially the way that the different characters, the black actors playing their characters, like Chuck Cooper's character, for example, is obviously affected by the racism, but he's an older guy who has just been like, well, screw it, I have to fit in, I have to just agree with everything, otherwise, I'm never going to have a career. And so obviously, there's that one moment that I don't want to spoil for people who haven't seen it, but that one moment where he gets real for a second, and then just like, oh, okay, yeah, this is my life, this is who I am. And it makes me so disappointed and so sad as a society. And in sort of the same way, like in a good way, in a reflective way, right? This is a story that needs to be told. And I am so unbelievably happy that this work, this play by Alice Childress has finally made it to the Broadway stage.

[8:35] Alan Seales: And so going back to you then, your career has, I mean, you started in 2004, I think, with a small part on The Sopranos, and you were 25, 26 at the time, I think, right?

[8:50] Michael Zegen: No, it was, I mean, I was 23 when I did The Sopranos. But yeah, I mean, I got out of school in 2001, came to New York, and I started doing The Letterman Show, actually. I was doing a character on The Letterman Show.

[9:05] Alan Seales: Oh, really?

[9:07] Michael Zegen: Yeah. Yeah, it was like a weekly gig. I didn't know it was going to be weekly at the time, but it ended up being weekly because he liked me. But I played Dwight the Troubled Teen.

[9:18] Alan Seales: Oh, right. Yeah. So at what point in your childhood did you have sort of that moment where you're like, I'm going to be an actor? And was it theater specific, or was it TV film specific?

[9:30] Michael Zegen: I think, well, first of all, I can't remember a time when I didn't want to be an actor. I begged my parents to let me be an actor when I was five years old, I remember. There was a kid in my elementary school who was doing all these commercials, and he was on soap operas and whatever. And so he, you know, I was insanely jealous. He was in every toy commercial and cereal commercial, and I just, I wanted that. So I think that's where it originally stemmed from. I'm also a middle child, maybe that has something to do with it. But yeah, I grew up in New Jersey, so we weren't that far from the city. My dad, well, before COVID, he commuted to the city every day because he's a lawyer. And, you know, it's only, it's like probably a 40-minute bus ride from Ridgewood, New Jersey.

But yeah, so I begged them, but I guess my parents, they thought, you know, they wanted me to have a normal life, which I understand in hindsight, but I still, I would have had no regrets. But yeah, it was, you know, I love everything. My parents always took me to theater, and they still see a lot of Broadway. You know, they always took me to see everything, and I grew up doing musicals, doing these Saturday classes with all these kids, and I loved it. I loved it. So it wasn't necessarily a choice between mediums. I mean, I would have done anything. I grew up watching TV too. You know, I love TV, I love movies, and I love theater, and they're all different, but I love them in their own ways. So I never had like, you know, I just wanted to do it all.

[11:18] Alan Seales: Well, you've got a very busy TV career now. Are you taking a break from TV and film to do Trouble in Mind on stage right now? Because, you know, the eight show a week thing, it's a commitment.

[11:25] Michael Zegen: Yeah, there's no time to do anything else. But I filmed this last season from January till July, like towards the end of July. Then I had like, I think two weeks off, and then I did a movie, and then right into the play. Like, I didn't even have a day off. I wrapped the movie, and then the next day started the play.

[12:02] Alan Seales: Wow. So it was a little hectic for a bit, but to be honest, I mean, after being off for so long, you know, during the quarantine and everything, and not working, it just feels good. I don't need any breaks.

[12:16] Michael Zegen: I would like a day.

[12:22] Alan Seales: Well, you get Mondays. Mondays are dark, right?

[12:25] Michael Zegen: Yeah, you get Mondays, but it's just not enough sometimes.

[12:29] Alan Seales: No, I know. I know. I know. I would like a weekend, like a weekend, you know, but it's not a bad thing. These are good problems to have.

[12:33] Michael Zegen: So you were in the middle of what, season three when COVID shut down production?

[12:37] Alan Seales: No, we were done. We had finished season three, and I was doing another play. I was doing Bob and Carol and Ted and Alice for the new group, which was a Duncan Sheik musical. We got shut down, but we only had about a week left, so that was okay. We'd been doing it for months at that point, so I felt like we put in our time. I know people who were making their Broadway debut and got shut down and never to come back, so I feel very fortunate that we had done most of the run of that show.

[13:13] Alan Seales: Yeah, I have told the story a couple times in the podcast. It was March 12, 2020, right, when Broadway got shut down. That was when Six was supposed to open, and five of the six queens were making their Broadway debuts, and luckily, they all came, you know, the show came back, but yeah, there were a lot of people that, you know, whole productions that just got completely lost and canceled.

[13:38] Michael Zegen: So you are extremely busy, obviously. You're just, you're saying, you're fitting in whole stage productions in between filming this.

[13:49] Michael Zegen: This role that has become very iconic, part of a show that's become very iconic to our culture and our zeitgeist now. Rescue Me has been great. Sopranos has been great. Girls has been great. I had like one little scene, but that's how I got my SAG card. And I was such a fan of the show. My parents were such fans of the show. It was season five. So I'd watch the show and then to be on it was crazy. But it was just a small part. I can't say I was a cast member of the Sopranos or anything like that.

[14:30] Alan Seales: Oh, no, I know. I mean, what I was getting at was that now people, actors can go their whole careers, their whole lives and never get the opportunity that you have now, right? Because you've got a popular role in an extremely popular show. And it's going to lead, I assume it's opening more doors than you could have imagined previously, right?

[14:51] Michael Zegen: Yeah. I mean, I don't think I would have even gotten this play had I not been on Maisel. I know that. Well, I mean, I had worked for Roundabout before, but our director, Charles, you know, he hired me because of Maisel, because he loves that show and he thought I'd be right for it. And, you know, I happen to agree. I think, of course, it's certainly opened doors. It's a huge show. And I'm not taking it for granted. I, you know, realize how fortunate I am.

[15:23] Alan Seales: So looking back then on five-year-old Michael, of wanting to be an actor, growing up doing musicals and whatnot, and now you're on the other side of it. You can, you're established, you've got credits, you've got major credits and stage and screen and TV. And is it what you had expected it would be? And if not, I guess, in a, how different is it now than what you expected it would be as young Michael?

[15:51] Michael Zegen: I guess maybe young Michael would have thought it would have happened sooner. But that's just not reality. It's a hard business. It's a really tough business. And I went to Skidmore College, which is a great school and has a great theater department. But we don't have, or at the time, they didn't have a showcase for agents or anything like that. And these days, I mean, it's always been the case that getting an agent is really half the battle. If you want to start auditioning, you need somebody to get you the auditions. And finding that person is really tough. So having a showcase really helps you. And it took me a while to get an agent. So that was a setback. But yeah, I mean, I'm very thankful. Age really doesn't matter that much. It's about the journey. That's what they say. And everybody has their own path and all these clichés. But it's true. It didn't happen earlier, but it really doesn't matter.

[17:02] Alan Seales: Well, I guess what Morgan Freeman famously didn't have his breakout role until he was 50.

[17:08] Michael Zegen: Right. So, if you stick with it, good things will come if you're a good person. That's what I always tell people. Just keep going. Just keep at it. If this is something that you feel like you have to do and there's nothing else in the world that you could possibly do, then you have no other choice and you have to see it through.

[17:33] Alan Seales: We're going to take a short break. Stay tuned for more of the episode.

[17:35] Alan Seales: So going back to what you said about having it be difficult to find an agent, everybody has a different story. I'm so curious to hear yours because some people just show up to New York being the star of their local production. And they're like, I'm here in New York. And then they get beat down and leave and don't understand the process of this being a big deal. And I'm curious to hear yours.

[18:05] Michael Zegen: Well, I had had a crash course in learning about agents because I guess it was during my the summer going into my senior year of college. I found a job listing on playbill.com. And it was as an intern for a casting director. And I got the job. It didn't pay at all. But I just wanted to immerse myself in the business and see what that was like. And she happened to be a really big casting director. And she did some very, very large movies. And I was the intern. And I was the guy on the camera who's operating the video camera when all these people came into audition. And I learned so much just from being in that room and seeing what she liked or didn't like. And also just learning about agencies in general, learning about who the good agents are, who are the ones who are not going to get their clients in the room.

[19:25] Michael Zegen: So it was so instrumental in my career. Because then the following year, I knew exactly who to write to. Not that any of them responded. Because back in those days, it was like, send a headshot and resume and cover letter to these agencies and maybe somebody will respond. You know, nobody did. But even people who I had talked to, not on a daily basis, because these agents would call up the office and I'd talk to them and they'd be all friendly trying to get their clients in. And I didn't know any better. I just thought I was making connections. And then when I was in college, I would write them and nobody responded. So it's all good. I'm sure they regret it now.

[20:17] Michael Zegen: But yeah, I actually ran into... I guess it was also that summer. I ran into a friend of mine who I'd gone to high school with who was older than me. And I ran into him at a July 4th party. And we started talking and he was like, what are you doing now? And I said, I'm a theater major. I want to be an actor. And he was like, oh, well, I happen to work at a talent management company. It happened to be a management company for little kids in New Jersey. But he was like, do you want to audition? And I said, yeah. And literally the next day, he sent me an audition for a commercial and that was it. That started it. And then when I graduated, he was sending me out and I was going on all kinds of auditions.

And that's really what started the whole thing. So I just had this one in and it worked out. I think I got the Letterman show through him. And I was able to take it so far and then I met somebody else and signed with them. It was a little kids management company. I was 22 at the time and I was just like, I need somebody who reps adults, even though I look like a little kid for all intents and purposes. But I wasn't and I needed some adult management.

[21:38] Alan Seales: You've got a very healthy mustache going on right now.

[21:40] Michael Zegen: I don't think I'm pretty gnomish at that point.

[21:44] Alan Seales: Yeah, the mustache. I grew a mustache once and never again because my wife didn't like it.

[21:54] Michael Zegen: Yeah, I don't mind it. I'm ready for it to be gone.

[22:02] Alan Seales: Is Joel Maisel going to have a mustache in the next season?

[22:04] Michael Zegen: No, no. Apparently, Amy Sherman-Palladino came to the show and apparently she was not a fan of the mustache. I don't think it's in the cards.

[22:18] Alan Seales: How much of the business, and you've got such a TV-heavy list of credits, which I think...

[22:29] Michael Zegen: I was gonna say, I find it interesting, but I think it's all, like you said, it's more about circumstance and just embracing opportunity as it comes to you. And do you want to do more theater and musical theater specifically at all? Or are you kind of happy with the trajectory that you're on right now of being more TV-focused?

[22:53] Michael Zegen: Honestly, I just want to do good work. I don't really... It doesn't matter to me whether it's a play or TV or film. I just want to do something that's good and I want to work with great people. I want to work with great directors, actors, writers. So for me, it's... Let's be honest, theater, it's tough. It's all tough. They're all tough in their own ways. But theater, it's a grind. It's eight shows a week. The rehearsal process, it's eight hours a day. It's hard. It's really, really hard. And there are just some days, you're just like, no, I don't want to do this tonight. And everybody feels like that. It's not just me. You go to the theater and everybody's like, oh god, let's just get through this.

And that doesn't mean we phone it in. Of course not. I bring it every night. But it's tough. It's tiring. It's exhausting, especially this play and my character in this play. And to do two of these shows a day is never easy. I don't care what play it is. So I just want to... I would love to do theater for the rest of my life. Like I said, I grew up doing theater and I love it. There's nothing more satisfying. I think out of all the mediums, it's probably the most satisfying because it's that immediate gratification that you get. And you're in front of a live audience and you feel that energy. And personally, I get worked up beforehand. I get a little nervous. And so it's that buzz, that high that you feel afterwards, which is incomparable.

There's no drug that makes you feel that high. I haven't tried that many drugs. But I imagine it's just a great feeling when you just feel like you accomplished something. Especially when they like it. When the audience doesn't like it, that's a different story. But yeah, I just want to keep doing it forever. But I do need breaks in between. In theater, you need at least a year. But in terms of musical theater, maybe. Yeah, sure. Like I said, I did Bob and Carol and Ted and Alice. And I don't read music. I can't read music. So it was a little tough for me learning harmonies and stuff like that. But when I got offered the part, I'd worked with the new group before. And I love working with them.

And Duncan Sheik, I saw Spring Awakening four times. Amazing. And so to be able to work with him was great. And yeah, and it was also just a challenge to myself. And it scared me. And I've said it before, but as an actor, you want to be scared. You want to do things that scare you. And it's only going to make you better as an actor. It's only going to make you more fearless. And I think all great actors are fearless. So it just builds confidence. I can do that. I did it. I did a musical. I did a professional musical in New York. I could say that now. And that was something that was always on my bucket list. But yeah, I mean, if something comes along, I would love to. I'm not a singer, per se.

There are certainly people with better voices than me, but I can carry a tune. And people might say otherwise. But it's owning what makes you unique. And that's all the successful people, yourself included, that I've talked to. It's all about making choices, sticking with it. And I want to actually see if you said all great actors are fearless. I want to sort of see if you would agree to change that to say all great actors embrace their fear. Because like you said, you get nervous before you go on.

[27:00] Michael Zegen: I mean, sure. Yes, that makes more sense. But to the general public, they seem fearless.

[27:05] Alan Seales: Right. And maybe that's part of the acting, right? And I like the social media aspect to an extent of being more able to access the celebrities that people put on pedestals in the past, right? Because I think it's really great when people talk about their own personal mental health struggles or are saying, you have these big Broadway actors, per se, that are like, I got a call out of the show tonight. I'm exhausted. I need a break.

[27:38] Michael Zegen: It makes everyone remember that everybody's still human. At the end of the day, these are jobs. And like you just said, you get tired. You need breaks. You want a day off. That's no different from anybody else. No, I'm not a huge social media fan. But when you put it like that, sure. But to be honest, I mean, most people on social media, I would say, are not great role models. Probably not. But yeah, I mean, yeah, sure. That's great. And it's great when people can connect to people who are famous or whatnot, and see that they are human. But yeah, it's all tough. Even movies, I mean, you have to, or TV, you know, Miasel, this year, especially because of the COVID rules, we had to be there. You know, when we were filming, we had to be there like even earlier than we normally had to.

So there were times I was waking up at 3:30 in the morning. Because I had to be picked up at 4:30. And then you have to act all day. Like, how do you do that? And then the next day, I mean, Rachel Brosnahan, she just has, it's obviously the role of a lifetime, but she's got a horrible schedule. I mean, it's like, she films almost every day. And so clearly, she has to wake up super early, and she has to know her lines. And it's like, she has somebody on set who just runs lines with her for the next day. You know, while she's shooting whatever scene she's doing, she's running lines for the next day, because she has to. And on Miasel, everything has to be word perfect, kind of like a play. It has to be word perfect.

There's no, you know, if you say that instead of the, you get a note. And rightly so. I mean, it's so well written. We have the best writers in the business on this show with Amy Sherman Palladino and Dan Palladino. And so I have no problem with that. I'm fine with improv, but it takes a little pressure off of you where it's, you know, sometimes you're doing something like a movie or a TV show where they say, oh, yeah, just improvise this. And it's like, oh, God, what do I say? I want to be funny. I want to make a good impression. So that takes some pressure off of you. But yeah, it's a tough, I mean, that's a tough job.

[30:05] Alan Seales: What do you do to focus on yourself when you have quiet moments, when you do find the time for some downtime? What do you do to recharge?

[30:15] Michael Zegen: What do I do? What do I do? I don't know. It's been a while since I've been able to recharge. I mean, I, you know, I love TV. I love watching TV. I like walking around the city, listening to, you know, with my AirPods in, listening to music. I go to the gym. I go to the gym. You know, that's nice. I've been slacking on the gym. But yeah, I mean, and I try writing. I've been trying to put together some projects that hopefully, you know, that's the next step in my career.

[31:01] Alan Seales: Oh, that's cool. I was gonna ask if, I don't know why this occurred to me. I was gonna ask if you wanted to get into the writing directing, because something you said earlier sort of hinted at that. But what do you write? Like, what kind of topic?

[31:08] Michael Zegen: Well, I've got a few projects that I'm working on now. I don't want to give anything away. Like sci-fi or period pieces? No, no. I'm not opposed to any kind of genre. But yeah, I did. I wrote a romantic comedy that unfortunately is on the back burner now, because another actor, a more famous actor wrote a very similar script, and they're making that. So that was kind of unfortunate. And that's happened a few times. So I'll write something, and then literally the next week, find out that somebody's doing it. And it actually happened with Maisel. I wrote a script right before Maisel about a 17-year-old kid who's a stand-up comic. And this took place in the 1970s. And he was performing in the village, in the West Village, behind his parents' back.

And he was a Jewish comic. I mean, it had a lot of similarities. And I finished that. I was still tinkering with it. But it was good. It was funny. And then I got the audition for Maisel, and I was like, oh, God. And I knew I wanted Maisel. And so I just decided, all right, well, obviously, after I got Maisel, I can't make this. So that was that. But yeah, it's happened a bunch of times where I've basically come up with something, and then somebody else, I wouldn't say steals it, because there's no possible way they could have stolen it. But somebody else comes up with something very similar. And my friend recently said to me that I was cursed. But I don't see it as a curse. I see it as a blessing, to be honest. I just need to move faster. So yeah. So now I've got a few things that I'm doing at the same time, so that if another one is stolen, then I've got another one right behind it.

[33:16] Alan Seales: That's really interesting. I always sort of wonder about that. But I think, actually, you're right. I have a friend that sold a screenplay to a big production company, and they were gearing up for pre-production. And then another company came out with such a similar story that they're like, well, can't do this one now. And I guess that happens probably a lot more than I guess people ever talk about, right?

[33:39] Michael Zegen: Yeah. This last one was a heartbreaker, because I had worked on it for three years. It was an indie film, or I was lining it up to be an indie film. And we were looking for production companies, and it was great. I mean, it turned out great. I was really working on it. And yeah, so we actually sent it to Amazon. I know people there, and they called back and said, we love it. But this actor actually just sent it out. There's a bidding war for his.

[34:13] Alan Seales: Wow.

[34:13] Michael Zegen: I was just like, are you kidding me? And then they sent me the script, his script, and I read it. And it was different, but it was the same theme. And it's hard to... I don't want mine to be the poor man's version of his. So it's on the back burner for now.

[34:32] Alan Seales: Well, you mentioned the studios, Amazon, of course. I feel like, and correct me if I'm wrong, I feel like Maisel really put Amazon on the map as a production house, because it's like this breakout runaway hit. And they've had others since then. But Netflix, of course, was around. But then breaking out of the traditional studio mold, right? You've got NBCUni and HBO for years has been producing their own stuff. But it's moved away from... With the beginning of Netflix, right? It's moved away from your traditional film studios, TV studios. And so the internet has been driving so much demand for streaming content. And given your experience with working with traditional studios and now working with Amazon and online studios, is it all the same from your perspective? Or has anything changed as things have gone more and more for streaming only?

[35:33] Michael Zegen: I personally haven't noticed any difference. It's still all a business. I've been lucky that I've worked on some really special shows. And I feel like on the shows that I've worked on, the creatives involved have had free reign, which I don't really know the other side of that. You had mentioned shows that I've worked on like Boardwalk Empire and Girls and Maisel. And these are shows with, I guess, people in charge who have great track records. I mean, Lena Dunham didn't necessarily have a track record, but she's clearly a genius and she knows what she's doing. And so I think HBO is just like, go do your thing. And Terrence Winter, who was the showrunner on Boardwalk, he had done Sopranos and he had a great pedigree as well.

So yeah. And with Maisel, I mean, I think Amazon is just happy to be in the Amy Sherman Palladino business and they just let her do her thing. The show has gotten bigger and bigger every year, which is remarkable because I had no idea that it was going to be on par with Game of Thrones in terms of the scope of it. I had no idea. The first episode, I read it. I loved it. I thought it was hilarious. And then, I guess, when I showed up to set, you see... I mean, it wasn't as big then, but you saw all the cars and everything and you know that that's going to cost some money and you see what they're doing to building sets and stuff like that. And it's like, oh, okay, this is going to be kind of big.

But then it just got bigger and bigger and bigger. Flying to Paris and Miami and all this stuff and just the fact that the sets that they do build for Maisel now... Back then, they were in the pilot... The Maisel apartment, for example, we filmed it on the Upper West Side. We filmed it in some building off of Riverside Drive and they renovated it. And I guess it was some old apartment that they renovated and turned it into this 1950s huge apartment. But for the second episode, they rebuilt it in the soundstage. They took all the measurements and they literally rebuilt it to a T on the soundstage. Yeah, so it's pretty remarkable. Well, filming in New York is hard. We've already waited for sirens in this interview once or twice.

[38:23] Alan Seales: Right. Well, in a soundstage, you don't hear anything. But yeah, it's pretty incredible. And then it's just gotten bigger and bigger every year. Until you see this season. I can't believe some of the stuff they built for this season. It blows your mind.

[38:43] Alan Seales: Well, I'm very excited. So obviously, we'll catch Maisel. When that drops, go see you in Trouble in Mind at the American Airlines Theater, playing through January, the beginning of January. And can we find you online anywhere? You said you don't like social media very much, but are you on?

[39:00] Michael Zegen: Yeah, it's a necessary evil. I'm at MichaelZegan on Instagram. I would advise against following me on Twitter.

[39:17] Alan Seales: Yeah, I don't really use Twitter much either. Okay, so three closing questions that I ask everybody to wrap up the episodes. The first one, just very simply, is what motivates you?

[39:27] Michael Zegen: Well, like I said before, fear. Whatever scares me is kind of what I want to move towards.

[39:36] Alan Seales: Oh, I love that. All right. So then next question is, what advice would you give to your younger self and younger people listening now starting out down a similar path?

[39:46] Michael Zegen: Patience is key. And just keep trotting along, doing what you're doing.

[39:53] Alan Seales: Trotting along, doing what you're doing.

[39:55] Michael Zegen: Last question, if you could only see one show for the rest of your life, but you can see it as many times as you want, what would you see?

[40:03] Michael Zegen: You're talking about a theater? Like a play?

[40:05] Alan Seales: You can interpret that as you will. I say show, purposely ambiguous.

[40:09] Michael Zegen: Yeah, but a show, if it's a play, then it's the same show every night. And if it's a TV show or something like that, it could change. You didn't say that it was...

[40:19] Alan Seales: All right, so give me one of each then.

[40:21] Michael Zegen: Okay. Oh, man. One show. Well, okay. I mean, I would say Maisel. I love it so much. So in terms of TV, I could watch that for the rest of my life. But in terms of a play or musical, I mean, I'm just going to go Les Mis. I think I've seen that the most out of any show I've ever seen. I'm sure it would get old at some point, but it brings me joy.

[40:57] Alan Seales: Oh, that's wonderful. You can get more of me at thetheaterpodcast.com. I am on Twitter and Instagram at theater underscore podcast. Leave a rating, review, subscribe, tell your friends. This has been edited by Well-Rounded Hoodlum Productions. Thank you to Jukebox the Ghost for the intro and outro music. And Michael Zegen, thank you for the chat. This has been really fun.

[41:15] Michael Zegen: Oh, great.