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[0:00] Alan Seales: Welcome to another episode of The Theatre Podcast. Intimate personal conversations with theatre's biggest names. I am Alan Seales, sitting here with Jillian Hockman.

[0:14] Jillian Hockman: Hello, everyone.

[0:15] Alan Seales: And we are about to present to you a wonderful episode with none other than John Bolton, who is currently playing Vlad in Anastasia. Is it Vlad or Vlod?

[0:25] Jillian Hockman: It's Vlod.

[0:26] Alan Seales: Vlod. Okay, excuse me.

[0:28] Jillian Hockman: Vlod from Russia. Vlod, Russia.

[0:29] Alan Seales: Was that your Russian accent?

[0:31] Jillian Hockman: It was very bad.

[0:32] Alan Seales: That was horrible.

[0:33] Jillian Hockman: Thank you.

[0:34] Alan Seales: John has been in the industry for over 25 years, and he's just a hoot to talk to. He came in just upbeat, happy, and we get into this amazing story of his comedy timing, and he learns pretty much everything I've figured out from the fact that he just watches and he dissects comedy. He was talking about like as a kid watching Carol Burnett.

[0:59] Jillian Hockman: Mm-hmm. Yeah, he was saying he also has one of his first gigs in New York was working in a theater and he got to watch Madeline Kahn and all these different comedy legends and got to see kind of the best of the best doing the thing that they do and got to absorb all that.

[1:17] Alan Seales: Yeah, and he's gotten himself to a point now. It's interesting for me, he's gotten himself to a point where because his reputation precedes him and he talks about this in the episode that he's got some of the roles on his resume now simply because he got a call that was like, if you show up, you've got the role.

[1:36] Jillian Hockman: Mm-hmm. He's very well known, very respected. I've chatted with other people who know him who just adore him. He is a ray of sunshine and so lovely.

[1:45] Alan Seales: He is a rather large ray of sunshine, energetically speaking.

[1:49] Jillian Hockman: Optimism.

[1:51] Alan Seales: Optimism. So everybody, please enjoy this episode with John Bolton. He made his Broadway debut in 1994 in Damn Yankees and since then has been a part of 13 Broadway shows including notable titles such as How to Succeed in Business Without Really Trying, Titanic, Spamalot, Curtains, A Christmas Story, Dames at Sea, and he's been in several off-Broadway shows, regional tours, readings, and benefits, and is now finishing up including, I guess, the out-of-town tryouts, an amazing three-year run with Anastasia. John Bolton, thank you for being here and talking with me today.

[2:30] John Bolton: Oh, hey. How are you, Alan?

[2:31] Alan Seales: Oh, hey. Sure you don't want your headphones?

[2:34] John Bolton: Good with my headphones.

[2:36] Alan Seales: We've been having minutes and minutes of discussions of if you should use headphones. So no, it's fine. It's totally fine. So how we always start on said podcast here is the very humble beginnings. Tell me about your childhood. Where'd you grow up?

[2:49] John Bolton: I grew up in Rochester, New York. I had a wonderful childhood and a nice family, wonderful mom and dad, always very supportive. My dad was a banker. My mom, a Mensa-worthy housewife, champion of many bridge leagues, and two older brothers, 10 and 12 years older than myself, who love sports, and that was their thing, and they tried so hard to make me like them, too. And I did try, and those were some very fun years. But there was this thing called theater. There was the school play once in a while that would come around once a year, and the local community theaters, which to me was like Broadway. And so I had a little experience with, first of all, going to every one I could, and then I got my toe in the water, then my foot in the water, and all of a sudden I was the king of community theater in Rochester, New York, and I was so excited to do that.

And I have a degree in journalism, a B.A. in journalism from a college in Rochester called Fisher College, but I wanted something steady, so I decided to audition for summer stock stuff and made friends there. I swear there was one summer stock job that I think I worked for five years off of that, because of the directors I worked with and the choreographer kept recommending me, and friends kept recommending me. And now here it is about 30 years later, and I'm still here, and so lucky to be working.

[4:06] Alan Seales: So you said 10 and 12 years, you are younger than your siblings.

[4:12] John Bolton: That's correct.

[4:15] Alan Seales: Have you heard that story from your parents? Were you a lovely, I guess... What am I getting at here?

[4:24] John Bolton: Well, I asked. I said, what happened? What were you guys doing for 10 years, mom and dad? And it was like, was there an effort to not have it? She said, no, no, no, we tried. And then she would turn to my dad and pat his knee. Didn't we, honey?

[4:39] Alan Seales: All right. And at what point did you know that you wanted to do theater, though?

[4:45] John Bolton: Oh, gosh. Well, no one ever said, hey, do you want to do this? It was a smallish high school and no one from my school had ever done it professionally. It was just sort of a hobby thing that you did. And at the time, I wasn't really good enough to really have anyone say that to me. The best that could be said was I had energy. And watching old videos of that, it's like, oh, my God, someone just needed to calm me down. But I was so happy to be on stage. But my parents, I was lucky enough where my dad had yearly trips to New York City and he would bring me and my mom. Brothers were long gone. They were long out of the house. So I had the benefits of getting fancy trips to New York and staying at the Waldorf, which I thought everyone lived at the Waldorf in New York City since I was a kid.

And we saw on my first trip, we saw Annie and The Wiz. And just thrilling for me to see kids my age on stage and in Annie. And then this wonderful adaptation of, you know, everybody's favorite story there, Wizard of Oz. And I convinced my high school music department to do The Wiz my senior year. This mostly white version, not in blackface, I need to say, 100 percent not. But we were so proud of that. It was a mixed race cast. And I think that was the first time where I thought, wow, I can I think I can sing, you know, singing that stuff. And so it was little by little, like I knew I always loved it, but I never thought I was good enough to do it. And then the more I did, I don't know, the more confidence I got.

And I was able to work with some great community theater directors and choreographers in Rochester. Any one of several of them could have come to New York and had a great career. They were just so smart and astute and brilliant in their own ways. And I think I had a great sort of side education while I was studying journalism by doing all these community theater shows at these great companies and learning from all these wonderful people.

[6:40] Alan Seales: That's incredible, though. I love that you were able to convince your school to do it.

[6:44] John Bolton: I did. Well, it was between Lil Abner and that. Oh, yeah. Well, when there's a choice, let's do The Wiz. It was my senior year and I designed the sets, which meant I got the souvenir program from when I saw it and did scale models that we could afford of that. And I am extremely proud of my scarecrow.

[7:02] Alan Seales: So you're the scarecrow, I guess, at your height. How tall are you?

[7:07] John Bolton: I'm 6'2".

[7:08] Alan Seales: 6'2".

[7:09] John Bolton: And I did not grow at all. I was always the shortest one until summer between 10th and 11th grade, where I think I grew about a foot. We went over to England for a vacation and traveled around. I literally came home a foot taller.

[7:20] Alan Seales: Bangers and mash. That'll do it.

[7:21] John Bolton: That'll do it.

[7:22] Alan Seales: Yeah. You either grow out or you grow up, I guess. Yes, the belly over there. Of everything that you've done with your 13 Broadway shows, do you have a favorite overall?

[7:33] John Bolton: Wow. Well, I think you're counting some as Broadway that maybe were close to Broadway. Let me think. Well, my first, Damn Yankees, was so much fun because I had worked hard and it was my first Broadway show. And all of a sudden I was in one and I was a replacement in it. I replaced my wonderful friend, Michael Winther, who left the company fairly early. And there was also sort of sweet justice in that I had been in a show out of town called Paper Moon, which was supposed to come to Broadway, starring Gregory Harrison, Chandra Wilson, Christine Ebersole, Renee Elise Goldsberry. And it would have been the Broadway debuts of myself, Christopher Sieber and Brooks Ashmanskas. And so our marquee was up at the Marquee Theater where Damn Yankees was.

And we were thrilled and got the Sunday Times, six copies each of the Sunday Times. I still have these photos that I cherish with me, Chris and Brooks, with stacks of the New York Times ads with our names in it because we were so thrilled. And then they canceled it two days before we started rehearsals. And that was quite the heartbreaker.

[8:43] Alan Seales: Why?

[8:44] John Bolton: I don't know. We had not gotten all of the letters, so to speak, out of town. The show needed a little work, they thought. And it turned out it was a fairly weak season. I think we could have come in and done something there. But gosh, well, anyway, so Paper Moon is a no-go. Here's the Marquee Theater, suddenly available. Damn Yankees has been a success out of town. And we're like, screw you, Damn Yankees, when their marquee went up and ours finally came down. And who knew that I would wind up in that theater anyway, just a few months later.

[9:16] Alan Seales: And the audition process, I guess they didn't come to you and say, oh, you didn't get to go on stage here.

[9:21] John Bolton: No, I wish it worked like that. No, I went to an open call that my agent had submitted me for a replacement. Remember, this is in 1994. And I didn't get picked up. It was Jay Bender casting. He didn't know my work. And so I went to the open call because friends who I'd just done another show with at Paper Mill said, we signed you up, dude, we're going to have lunch. So I borrowed someone's music, went to go have lunch with my friends, borrowed someone's music, sang my quick little thing for Cynthia on Ruby and Rob Marshall and Jack O'Brien. And I had a call back later that same day, I believe. And then I got a phone call the next day saying that I was going to make my Broadway debut.

[10:02] Alan Seales: So you did. As a fluke. I love there's so many stories of people walking out of auditions and being like, I didn't care about that or I'm not going to get that. And then it's like changed the trajectory of who they were.

[10:12] John Bolton: Yeah. Well, I knew it went well, like as soon as I was in the room. And I thought the reason I didn't go initially to the open call or the reason I hadn't signed myself up at the time was Bender had seen my headshot and resume and said, I don't want to see him. He's not right for us. I figured, well, what the heck? I'm not I'm not right for it. And so I went in and it was my turn. You know, once in a while you go in and you get all the no's out of the way and you go in, you do your best. And once in a while, it's your turn.

[10:39] Alan Seales: And in in ninety five, you did How to Succeed.

[10:42] John Bolton: And that's a very hard show to do in general. But you played several roles in the ensemble. And eventually then you became the replacement for, of course, our beloved character, Jay Pierpont.

[10:53] John Bolton: I did. And to play that role was just an absolute thrill. And one of the great pride and joys of my life is that I've become close with the Lesser family. Frank Lesser, of course, wrote How to Succeed and so many other wonderful shows. But and that was the beginning of that friendship, which I cherish forever. But yeah, I had a great time and I joined the company as a cover to Matthew and Matthew Broderick, Matthew Broderick, who is a great guy, still a drinking buddy. And and then Matthew went to shoot a film called The Cable Guy, which will tell you how long ago that was. Yes. And the filming ran late and John Stamos' contract was up. And well, who's going to do it? Well, how about Bolton? Because I had done it on a few other occasions and people hadn't thrown things.

[11:41] John Bolton: They let me do it for a while, including a couple weeks opposite Sarah Jessica Parker, which was fun. And then when Matthew came back to the show, there's me making out with his almost-wife on stage. So, that was a lot of fun. I had a great time doing that one, and Brooke Sashmanskas was in that as well. Yeah. So, that's a character that many people have known and have seen so many incarnations of. How do you approach making that character, like the Bolton version? Are you allowed to take it and tweak it a little bit, or were you supposed to stay close to what Broderick did?

[12:12] John Bolton: Well, there's a blueprint that is set, certainly in terms of the blocking, and a lot of the pacing that the other actors expect and are used to. And particularly coming in as a replacement, you want to respect the other actors' laughs that they're very protective of, as I am when it's me that's trying to protect my stuff from a new person on the show. But yeah, you try to fit the blueprint. But you know what? I'm me. I'm not Matthew. I can't go out there and imitate Matthew. They'll just go, well, that sucked. So, I've got to be me and honor what the blocking is and the pace and all that. And I was the right age at the time, and I suppose I had a little fearlessness that's right for the role, and a little bit of that glance when you look at the audience.

And yeah, I'm very, very proud of that. That was a great production, and Des McAnuff was so thrilled he trusted me with that for a while. Because no one knew who the hell I was. So, I was thrilled that they trusted me with it for a little while.

[13:07] Alan Seales: Well, obviously, you did something right. I mean, I talked about Spamalot a little bit later. Spamalot, you were in the original Broadway cast.

[13:21] John Bolton: I was. In '05. And standby for all of the male leads. So, real quick, for those who don't know, what is a standby?

[13:27] John Bolton: A standby is a person who is hired specifically to cover usually the over-the-title characters. It's a fancy term for an understudy for big leads or sometimes stars of the show. You don't cover any ensemble roles, as a Swing does, and you're not in the show every night in an ensemble role and jump up. But a standby is someone hired specifically to cover the stars. And it's oftentimes someone that you, you know, like for one show where I understudied the leading role, I didn't have it listed in the program that I was the cover for it. And then when I went on, it was just like, look, we have a special guest. Mr. John Bolton is going to step in this evening. So, there's that. But standing by is absolutely terrifying. But you know what? I learned an awful lot from it, and it made me better. And I think everyone should do it. Everyone should understudy someone at some point.

[14:27] Alan Seales: As a standby, how much notice do you get when you have to go in?

[14:30] John Bolton: Often five seconds. Go on stage. Go. Talk. Start talking.

[14:32] Alan Seales: Do you have to stay off stage like in your costume until Curtain comes up?

[14:35] John Bolton: There were times I had to at Contact. They would get me dressed, ready to switch out at any moment, because of course, that big dance play was a very, very physical, physical role. But I remember the first time I went on at Spamalot, they were like, well, Hank is not well. And so you're, you know, get ready. And so we wore the stilts for the first time that day, including this whole mask-y thing. And you're walking on stage in four-foot-high stilts with a mask on and carrying a big thing and trying to be funny and trying not to fall into the pit. And it was the first time I'd ever worn it. So anyway, it's half hour or a little bit, maybe a few minutes before half hour. And I'm finally, I'd gone over all the Hankus area stuff that day.

And they come to my room, they go, Hank's here, Chris Sieber's out. Oh, okay. So huge gear shift. And, you know, I've had to put on a Black Knight costume, which I'd never worn. And for those that know the show, it's the one that where the legs come off and the arm comes off, and it's just a flesh wound and all that stuff, which has to work. And I'd never worn it ever. And we had five minutes in it and couldn't get it to work, couldn't find where the little levers were and everything to release the thing. And I'm feeling the pressure mounting. Finally, the stage manager, Peter Lawrence, wonderful guy says, listen, Johnny, we got to open the house. So good luck, pal. That was my first time on for that. Absolutely terrifying. But then you get through it because you have the support of the company. And fortunately, everything worked. And you're just like, wow, I did that.

[16:04] Alan Seales: Yeah. Well, the cast, I mean, it was a mega cast of so many like people who are known for comedy. You got David Hyde Pierce and Tim Curry, Chris Sieber, you mentioned. Hey, Kazaria, Christian Borel and Sarah Ramirez going. Obviously, you didn't go on for Sarah, but I could have. Maybe you did. I could sing the hell out of it.

[16:23] John Bolton: That's right. As you went on for did you go on for every different role over time?

[16:28] John Bolton: Of those, I did not go on for David, but I did go on frequently for Tim Curry to so frequently that I felt I actually own a little piece of that part. I didn't just get to borrow it. I feel like I was on enough as King Arthur that there's a little piece of that that's actually mine. And I'm very, very proud of that. And again, they gave me within the realm of the show. Fortunately, there's a little bit more wiggle room there because it's this ridiculous thing. And I've thought of a few things myself and they let me do it. And I'm very proud of that.

[16:59] Alan Seales: Were you in it when Clay Aiken took over?

[17:03] John Bolton: I was not. I only did the first six months because I had the opportunity to not cover all five leading men, but to play all five leading men in a little off Broadway show called Five Course Love that we did for a few months at the Minetta Lane. And I'm so glad I did. You know, when I when I said yes to Spamalot, I, of course, was thrilled to be part of that amazing company and to work with with Casey and Mike Nichols. My God. But, you know, when they had first were first exploring that, I wanted to go in for one of the roles. Well, Mike Nichols only wanted to see like 30 guys total one day of rehearsal. Let's bring in. And then they didn't think I was really right for that at the time. And I said, well, I'm not standing by.

So this is over. And then halfway through rehearsals, they were like, they need to stand by. If you come in and shake Mike Nichols hand, you've got this job because the choreographer knew me, the music director knew me and they were like, just get Bolton, just bring him in. And that was very flattering. And by now, Spamalot has become, oh, my God, it's the star studded extravaganza. I got to be a part of it. Plus, this other show I had done out of town called The Opposite of Sex, which was coming in, didn't come in. So I want to work and I want to work with Mike Nichols and I'd love to work with Eric Idle and all these great fancy guys. So I did it and it was terrifying. And it was difficult from an ego standpoint, I've got to say, but also I'm extremely, extremely proud of it. And it was a great show. And there you go.

[18:21] John Bolton: You eventually got to go on, replace Tim Curry as King Arthur.

[18:25] John Bolton: Well, just he took a leave of absence, but they said, well, we won't hire, you know, again, like how to succeed. They're like, we'll trust you with this for a little while.

[18:32] Alan Seales: Yeah. So when you went on for each different person, you were saying that every character or every actor is protective of their laughs.

[18:40] John Bolton: Yes.

[18:40] Alan Seales: Right. So it was did it become sort of like second nature or did you have, were you consciously aware of it every time you went on for a different role that you kind of have to shift your pace and shift your how you deliver the lines to let to give the other actors like their continue their laughs or whatnot?

[18:56] John Bolton: I was really good at watching the show and I'm fascinated by laughs. One of my first jobs in the city when I first moved here was renting the infrared headsets at two comedies. One was musical comedy, crazy for you with great comedians in it. The late great Bruce Adler, the great Harry Groner and John Hillner, and then the Sisters Rosenzweig. So for every night for probably five, six months, I was watching crazy for you, watching them get the laughs, find the laughs, lose the laughs, get frustrated by losing laughs and then find them again or find new laughs. I studied that crap. I watched it every single night and they were geniuses doing it. Same over at Sisters Rosenzweig with Madeleine Kahn, Robert Klein, and Jane Alexander, you know, just watching them hone their laughs and find them and then, like I said, lose them and then get them back.

And I really, I really got good, particularly during Spamalot of calibrating why things worked. And if someone lost a laugh being watching from the front so often, because I loved watching the show, it was a blast to listen to the audience every night. But it was also great to watch. I know why he's losing that laugh. It's because that guy over there is moving. He's moving on that punchline. Or this guy over here is now playing the laugh before the punchline. And so we're sort of ahead of it, so it's not as funny. Watching it, you can learn so many, so many things. And watching some of the actors get frustrated by that, you don't want to go up to them and go, I'll tell you why you lost that laugh, because she's moving over there, you know, or whatever.

You can't just do that, unless you've had several, you know, bourbons that have emboldened you in some sort of way. But just watching the show so much, I was really able to sort of calibrate all that.

[20:15] Alan Seales: That's fascinating. And we've talked to so many other people and people have gone on understudies and other swings and whatnot, and you're the only person who has at least told us about watching from the house. And I respect it. I think you have a talent for finding, you know, where you're saying like, oh, this guy in the back is, or that lady in the back is pulling focus and stealing the joke, and they're not even knowing it. Have you ever thought about, have you directed before?

[21:04] John Bolton: Well, I was the king of community theater in Rochester. I did a lot of high school musicals. So I directed a lot of high school musicals. It actually paid the bills. And a lot of them weren't very good, but you know what? A lot of them were, a few of them were, and I'm really proud of them. And a few of the kids have wound up on Broadway, and I take partial credit for that.

[21:25] Alan Seales: Well, it doesn't, at least you haven't told me yet, if you have, if you've had any formal comedy training. Are you just like, are your parents like, is your dad the funniest banker ever?

[21:30] John Bolton: Well, in some ways, sure. No, you know, there was this thing in the late seventies called the Saturday Night Lineup on CBS, and it was the Mary Tyler Moore Show and the Bob Newhart Show and the Carol Burnett Show. And that was my schooling, really, not even knowing it at the time. Why is this funny? What is the pacing here? Who's got the ball in terms of, you know what I mean, in terms of who's got the ball? Hey, you gotta let her have the ball there so she can get that laugh, or so that we can get that laugh later. We won't get that laugh if she doesn't have the ball here, you know, kind of thing. And that's where all that started to come together, was watching that stuff.

[22:18] Alan Seales: That's crazy. And have you ever thought about getting training? Do you take classes now, like acting or even dancing?

[22:21] John Bolton: This is such a lazy response, and the answer is no. And I'm sad to say that. I go to the gym regularly, and I try to keep fairly fit, because I'm a rubber guy. I gotta keep that going as long as I can. But no, because I'm usually doing something with hopefully a good choreographer, and like Anastasia keeps me in shape, all the running around I do, and taking this leg and putting it up here, and taking Vicky Lewis and throwing her around, and jumping off of things, you know. So the show keeps me in shape, that and the gym. But I'm sorry to say I don't take class, and I feel badly about that, because I feel like there's always something you can learn. You should never be so cocky. And I don't think, oh, I know it all. I don't think I know it all. There is always so much more to learn, and you try to learn something every day.

[23:13] Alan Seales: Right. Well, you brought up Anastasia, and that's my next segue here. Yeah, so you've been doing that since the out-of-town tryout in Hartford.

[23:22] John Bolton: I guess 2016, we did the spring there and we knew we were going to come in and there was a six month break where, you know, it's a very lucky thing. Every actor wants to know they've got a sweet gig coming up and then you can just sort of fill in with a CLO contract here, a Muni contract there, you know. But that's always the gift is to know you've got something good lined up and I knew it would run for a bit. And I'm absolutely thrilled to be playing this role and I'm so thrilled, again, that they didn't go, let's get TV guy from the 90s who can sell tickets. You know, Caroline O'Connor and I, who created the roles of Lily and Vlad, we're really proud of what we did. And the director wants to tell you when you're creating a show, pee all over that role, pee all over it so that no one else can do it.

Do everything you can to claim it when you're doing a reading of something, when you're doing, you know, those early stage things, claim it. I did it with Christmas Story, you know, good luck finding a guy that can, you know, do everything with this. Of course, there's always someone that can do it, but it makes the search a little bit harder and it makes them think, well, this is our only guy because he can do this and he can do this and this is what works about the show. So you try to pee all over it so that they'll keep you.

[24:37] Alan Seales: Had you seen the animated movie, I guess, before you auditioned or anything?

[24:41] John Bolton: Oh yeah, I watched it maybe two days before my audition. I was aware that it existed, certainly, and my parents, the hilarious banker and the bridge player, championship bridge player, they loved history. And I grew up in a house with lots of books of history. And of course, I had Nicholas and Alexandra, Anastasia's parents. They're big book and there's all these pictures in the middle, which I'm drawn to as a kid. Oh my God, there's kids in the story. You know, they all get murdered, but there are kids in the story. And it made it always sort of fascinating to me that maybe one of them escaped. It was always this, particularly the youngest one who, you know, 16 at the time, the youngest girl anyway.

Maybe she escaped this mythic thing that we just hope that this terrible tragedy maybe wasn't so terrible and that one got out. And the show, like you said, there's murder, there's murder of children, which is not a funny topic. When you read the script, I guess, was the script itself as, like the character of Vlad, was that as like kind of, I want to say slapsticky? Like Rubberman, you called yourself Rubberman. Oh gosh. How much did you bring to this? How much did you pee all over this role? And how dry was the page before you got it?

[25:54] John Bolton: Oh my gosh, we're just going to keep talking about that metaphor. I'm sorry, everyone, that I brought that up. It's a way of thinking. Oh, sorry. Thank you. I was worried the cord was going to pull. No, I'll just put this mic stand over here for you. There you go. I'm a fidget. Yeah. Gosh. Well, it was like Christmas story where I thought, oh God, really? Because I knew what the role was because I just watched the film. And then I just started reading the material they sent. And I suddenly thought, oh my God, I think I can do this. I think this is totally and surprisingly to myself in my wheelhouse. And so I just worked on the material for two days. And you cancel all your plans. They give you the stuff.

You learn the stuff. Learn those two songs they sent you. Cancel your plans. Go in. Do your best. You're probably not going to get it. But once in a while, it's your turn. And I went in. I went last. And they had seen a Christmas story. The writers had seen a Christmas story. And apparently had said, we knew it was going to be you. And I went in last. And as I was walking home from the audition, I got a phone call from my agent saying, you're going to be getting an offer. And I was glad I had got the film on Netflix just to see what it was, get the flavor of Kelsey Grammer's terrific vocal performance in my head. And again, nothing I wanted to slavishly copy like Christmas story. There's this beloved performance.

I thought, just get the flavor. Hit the things that you got to hit or the big fans are going to be mad if you don't hit a couple things a certain way. And the rest of it, stop watching it. Don't do the slavish version of it. Just make it your own and go.

[27:37] Alan Seales: Were you ever told to bring it down, bring it back?

[27:39] John Bolton: Oh, all the time. I had a director that was like, go too big. Because I can tell you to bring it back. But it's harder to tell you to go bigger. Too big can be off-putting in an audition. So you really have to be careful with that. And then in rehearsal, I like to just throw everything out there. I like to create a buffet from which the director can choose. A large salad bar. Do that, don't do that. Because otherwise, how do you find this stuff? And Caroline and I just had a blast creating this whole thing, this whole thing that Countess and the Common Man. There's this big dance as these two middle-aged lovers reunited after a couple decades. And they sort of slowly discover through dance that they're still extremely passionate and very attracted to each other.

And they still got it. And then we realize, oh, wow. They're not in as good shape as possible. So we just sort of, in rehearsals, kept playing with how tired do we get from this? And maybe that's the joke. And then it is. And now it's literally this two-minute middle of the number where we play how exhausting, how exhausted it was. And that came from him just letting us play.

[28:45] Alan Seales: Do you actually, like you, John, get exhausted at the end of every show? Because you are all over the place.

[28:50] John Bolton: I get exhausted at the end of the Perry Holds the Key number, because I run around a lot. But no, I'm usually ready for an old-fashioned or two after the show. But I wouldn't say I'm exhausted. My feet hurt, but that might just be being my age.

[29:07] Alan Seales: Yeah, a spry young 36.

[29:10] John Bolton: Yeah, exactly.

[29:11] Alan Seales: Well, 37 now.

[29:12] John Bolton: Yes, all right. The show is unfortunately closing March 31.

[29:18] Alan Seales: Yeah, but we had a great run.

[29:20] John Bolton: Oh, yeah, it was over two years, right? Including previews, it'll be two years. And that last six months, I wasn't going to stay, and they sort of made me an offer I couldn't refuse in terms of, well, you can leave to do this. And again, what little TV I do, they were like, fine, go do it. And I'm having such a good time, and I love the company. And I'm a little, I wouldn't say protective of the role, because I'm happy to know my good friend Ed Staudenmeier is playing it on tour. And I've made friends with Javier Nevarez, who's playing it in Madrid. And of course, the wonderful covers in New York, who do such a great job. It's in good hands with those guys. But I'm thrilled to get to ride the whole train there from beginning to end.

[30:03] Alan Seales: I didn't know it was in Madrid. Did they translate it to Spanish?

[30:06] John Bolton: I hope so.

[30:07] Alan Seales: Yes, they did. Because, I mean, I guess tours do go international, and they don't change it. I don't know if that's a normal thing.

[30:16] John Bolton: It's currently in Stuttgart, Germany, Madrid, and on tour nationally. And there's going to be a West End in Australia.

[30:23] Alan Seales: Oh, nice. Still have to translate it to Aussie.

[30:25] John Bolton: Yeah.

[30:27] Alan Seales: You mentioned TV. You've got some recurring guest spots, most notably, most likely, on Gossip Girl, All My Children, Madam Secretary. You've even been on the Kimmy Schmidt Show.

[30:38] John Bolton: I love it.

[30:39] Alan Seales: Yeah. So you've said that the show has let you out the door for a little bit to do TV. How often do you get to do this?

[30:47] John Bolton: Well, it's hit and miss. It's usually when I wind up in the script. You know, Madam Secretary, they don't always need the Attorney General of the United States to be in every episode. But I've done seven so far, just in the past couple seasons. And they say I'll be back, so we will see. But it's a whole different world, as you know. And, you know, when I was first trying to do television 15, 20 years ago, there was a real snobbery against musical theater actors. Like, nah, we need real actors, which was just like, screw you, buddy. But, you know, I'm not going to come in and go, ha-cha, on your police drama. Give the fossy hands in the middle of NCIS.

[32:06] Alan Seales: Yeah.

[32:07] John Bolton: But I think the more you do, like with theater, work begets work. And the more they figure out, well, he actually can speak like this and say, you know. My first TV gig was the inevitable Law & Order, where I got to say, yeah, I remember. Nice enough girl. Kept to herself. Had a boyfriend. Came around once in a while. Drove a Harley. Looked like he roughed her up once in a while. Now, if you'll excuse me, I've got work to do.

[32:52] Alan Seales: I'm impressed you still remember the lines. How long ago was that?

[32:55] John Bolton: Because here's why. That guy appears in about every episode of Law & Order. There is a version of that character in every single one. And I love that he's always like, now, if you'll excuse me, I've got work to do.

[33:03] Alan Seales: Yes.

[33:04] John Bolton: Yes. What do you enjoy most about a TV, I guess, versus theater?

[33:05] Alan Seales: Yeah. I've got to get back to pushing my boxes to these cops, these detectives.

[33:09] John Bolton: But, you know, the more you do, the more they let you do. And, you know, I went in to do one episode of Gossip Girl. And they were like, yeah, he doesn't suck. Let's bring him back and he'll be a recurring character. And I started out as sort of a mild-mannered accountant guy. And then I got a little evil. And then I got more evil. And then I got murdered. And then they talked about me long after I was murdered because it was a whole trial for my murder. So I felt like I was in even more episodes because they talked about me.

[33:09] John Bolton: I love doing TV because that is something I never thought I'd do. I knew I always wanted to be on stage. And I knew I would just want to be doing one Broadway show. And then I'll go back to journalizing, being a journalist. Or going into banking, oddly enough, was an option at one point. But –

[33:26] Alan Seales: You would be the funniest banker there was.

[33:28] John Bolton: I'm sure there are very, very – a lot of funny bankers. But – wait, what was the question?

[33:38] Alan Seales: What do you like about TV?

[33:40] John Bolton: Oh, what do I like about TV? That it's a whole different thing. There's a completely different way of acting. Because, you know, it's quite – particularly now, I always sort of make fun of how everything's whispered. And then there's a sound effect that's deafening. And you have to leap for the remote and turn down the sound. But you just exercise different muscles, certainly. And the more you do – like, I think I've gotten a little better at it. I watch some of the early stuff I do, and I literally cringe. It's like, oh, Bolton, what are you doing? But once in a while, there's things. Usually because the director was particularly good. I loved our director on Boardwalk Empire, this guy Tim Van Patten.

And the episode won an Emmy. He was nominated for it, but the cinematography of that episode wound up winning an Emmy. But I got the crap beat out of me on that episode and did my own stunts. Again, something I never thought I could do. But you just dive in, and they made me extremely comfortable. And it wound up being something that I'm really, really proud of and watch and don't cringe.

[34:03] Alan Seales: I have a logistical question for you. For TV movies, when – like if your character, you get murdered, and then you are – like the next episode is a funeral scene. And it shows your face on a picture over the casket. Do you get paid for that?

[34:45] John Bolton: They have to pay you, yes. And it's not much. It's like a $250 usage fee, it's called. But they – images. And sometimes they'll use flashback stuff where you get a portion of your original rate for shooting that. I don't know exactly how it works. But I do know residuals are a lovely thing.

[35:03] John Bolton: And it's all very serious. And I've never, aside from Tina Fey and Robert Carlock trusting me with a little crappy bus driver guy that has a couple episodes. But yeah, I'd love to do something funny. I'd love to be, you know, cranky next door neighbor or funny next door neighbor or funny uncle or gunkle or something. You know, a nice role on the show that maybe doesn't need to carry the show, but shows up once in a while and we go, Ah, he's back. We like it. The Kramer of sitcoms pop in. Yeah, even that's a lot of responsibility. But sure. And something funny, you know, just something that lets me be funny.

[35:43] Alan Seales: Well, do you have a pitch for everybody listening? What would you want somebody to write for you?

[35:48] John Bolton: Oh, gosh. Have you thought about this? Do you think about like, Oh, fine. This needs to be a TV show. Um, I do a lot of characters myself that I think would make lovely skits on Saturday Night Live, but no one's going to trust a 53-year-old guy as a newcomer on Saturday Night Live. So I feel like that ship sailed before I was ready.

[36:01] Alan Seales: Leslie Jones is 45 before she got on.

[36:05] John Bolton: Okay. Okay. Well, maybe I'll take Leslie Jones to lunch and see what happens.

[36:09] Alan Seales: There you go.

[36:10] John Bolton: No, I don't know. That's a big pipe dream, but, um, no, no, no. I just, if they, yeah, I hope someday someone lets me be funny. I gotta tell you, Alan, my most, my biggest dream and people listening to this may go, seriously, we've listened to you for how long now? And that's what you want. I would love to host a talk show, just a little online thing where I get to talk to my famous friends and fan boy, fan girl out where we get to do this. And maybe it's on camera and we get a few audiences. We would let people know in advance questions that we got for this person, that person, I'm not your competition. I promise.

[36:47] John Bolton: Oh no, but I would love to do because I love talking to people about it. And I want to get inside the head of like my good friend, Orson Bean. He's a 91-year-old genius of a comedian. You can't be with him and not laugh until your gut hurts. And you're just crying tears of joy from just hearing his stories. I just want to sit down with him and let the world see what it is he can do and what we've got and bring it out through our fun conversations.

[37:10] Alan Seales: Word on the street is that the podcasting format is very popular.

[37:13] John Bolton: Oh, is it?

[37:14] Alan Seales: Yes.

[37:16] John Bolton: Well, thank you. So we've been talking for a long time about lots of successes and lots of happy, happy times. Have you, have you, do you deal with any, any like the opposite side of the coin, like personal struggles or like when you haven't worked for a little while, do you like start to question yourself?

[37:27] John Bolton: It's scary. Face saving is my biggest thing. What I've learned to be able, that is okay to say, you know, and unfortunately I have a lot of friends in my life who are very supportive and they tend to assume that I'm doing something. So you go, what are you working on now? And I've learned that it's okay to say I'm taking a break or I'm enjoying a break as opposed to, well, I'm doing a reading or I've got some irons in the fire and, you know, trying to save face while you're walking your dog and you run into some acquaintance and you feel like I, I'm only as good as my current job. So I must be on Broadway or I'm a big loser now, you know, that I've thrown away.

[38:06] John Bolton: And, um, and, uh, after fighting with it for a long time, it's okay to say, well, what are you doing? Nothing. You know, um, on Facebook when I did a little post about our eight weeks left of Anastasia and what a pleasure it's been. And cause I do know I've got a lot of people from my hometown that still want to see it. So I post for them and here, here's your chance. And right away I get a message saying, what's next? I'm like, God, let the paint dry on this one. I don't know what's next. Just, I don't know. I'm sorry to disappoint you. And feeling like you're disappointing them with an answer that isn't, I'm in a new big fancy thing because that's what you want to hear.

[38:44] John Bolton: So learning to deal with that and learning it's okay to say, I'm not doing anything right now. It's a perfectly legitimate answer. So I, I think I can humbly remind you or maybe make you aware of something that being on the other side of, of things where you are now for so long that maybe if you're asked what's next, it's because people love you so much that they're so sad Anastasia's closing. My partner tried to spin that to me as well and said she just, she meant well and she's a good person and all that. So, you know, cause I was like, can you believe it? You know, what's next?

[39:16] Alan Seales: Yeah. She's so sad that she won't get to see you. So she wants to see the next day.

[39:23] John Bolton: Exactly. Yeah. Um, well you mentioned Facebook, actually you've been in the business for a couple of decades now.

[39:32] Alan Seales: Yeah. It's safe to say, um, you mentioned Facebook and now that there's a rise of social media, I always, I always really enjoy, uh, people who have been doing this for, for many, many years. Um, how have you seen the industry change? What's, what's new today versus, you know, in the early late eighties?

[39:50] John Bolton: Um, besides the internet, the social media situation and in terms of auditions, now they just look for pretty good for TV stuff. They just go send us, send us a video or send us a YouTube link or a reel of some sort that shows him on camera. Uh, so that's changed and had hard, hard copy headshots barely exist anymore. It's all just online directors access or casting networks, everything's online and you know, hopefully your agents or managers take care of most of that for you.

[40:19] John Bolton: Um, but in terms of social media, I feel like there is a lot of people do it very well, very well. And a lot of people don't. And the ones that do it don't appear desperate. And it, and, um, and I think that is, that is sad. Uh, and I think people see that, notice that, and, um, and there are a lot of extremely successful people who don't do any social media and are just as successful as you are trying to get your followers. Now, fortunately I've been in Anastasia and I think Gossip Girl X also helped when it was still on, um, with the follower situation with me. Of course, Anastasia did my God, I've got, I probably have, I think I've, whatever, 18 something thousand. And, uh, you know, there's people that's like, that's all. And there's people that like, Oh my God, I'm one of the people that's like, I never thought I'd have more than 2000 people like who would want to care what I'm doing when I'm walking my dog.

[41:15] John Bolton: And I really enjoy the Instagram because it's visual. And, um, I enjoy the fans, you know, sort of asking about my dogs or my, uh, it's never been too creepy.

[41:24] Alan Seales: So do you engage with comments?

[41:26] John Bolton: I will click like once in a while, or if I feel it's safe, I will, I will engage. I've regretted that on occasion. And there's the famous block situation that, that happens. Um, there, but, you know, I really do admire those that make it a full-time job and it is a full-time job, the social media, Christie Altomar does. Altomar does. She's a genius because she means that she is a good human being who genuinely cares about her fans, who is willing to spend time with them to sacrifice her personal downtime, to recover from eight shows a week of this huge role where she does carry the show to, to interact with her fans. And it, I have never ever seen it be in an insincere fashion.

[42:07] John Bolton: Um, but she also has a security team, you know, kind of looking out for her because a lot of fans take that as we're good friends now. And it's like, well, actually she's just being very generous now. So careful with that. But, um, she's a genius at it. I really, really admire her. That's that's crazy. Leslie Margarita is a genius at social media. She's hilarious. Um, I have a lot of good friends who are great at it. And I learned from them. Here's the, here's what works, Bolton. Here's what doesn't work from that. So you sort of learn what works and what doesn't seem very, in general, a very observant guy.

[42:45] John Bolton: I try. You're always watching, but I'm also me. And I do try to honor that. I do try to sort of see what works for other people and then try to take that and apply it to the John Bolton this about me conceptually try to make that work.

[43:01] Alan Seales: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You, you apply the concepts, not the, not the literal, the little crummy.

[43:07] John Bolton: Yeah. Um, so we are very close to time here because you have a show to go to.

[43:11] John Bolton: Oh my gosh, I get to be on Broadway. It never gets old, man. I walked through that stage door. I'm like, I get to be on Broadway tonight. Really? Every night. Uh, well, when I remember, I remember it frequently that I am, I, it never, ever gets old. How lucky I have been.

[43:22] Alan Seales: Do you, do you do the stage door thing afterwards too?

[43:27] John Bolton: You know, I did it for a year and I love everyone that, that waits out in the cold and everything. Um, but I, uh, I sort of stopped. I do it, I'd say a couple of times a month, uh, and I enjoy it and I will do it our whole last week. I'm sure I'll do it just because it's all the fans are coming back and I will be very, very happy to see them. They're so generous. They've given us, they give us all this stuff. And sometimes it's extremely thoughtful and can often bring a tear to your eye. And, uh, we're a part of that. And I'm thrilled to get to do that because believe me, I was a fan boy. I waited outside the stage door at nine to say hello to some of those people when I was in high school.

[44:01] John Bolton: Um, and outside the stage door, dream girls and Joseph and the amazing technical dream coat. I chased one of the actresses playing one of the orphans and Annie down the street to get her autograph in 1978. So there's that.

[44:11] Alan Seales: Okay. So, um, we have three, three questions here, standard questions that we ask everybody on the podcast. The first one here simply is what motivates you?

[44:16] John Bolton: The joy I get from, from working in this business. It's what I always wanted to do. I get to do it. We get to change people's lives. Hopefully if the show is good. And when, if you're lucky enough to be in a show, you love working with people you love. There's just nothing better. And that motivates me. The joy for the business loves motivates me.

[44:37] Alan Seales: And what advice would you give to your younger self and younger people listening now starting out down a similar path?

[44:41] John Bolton: Be you be yourself. Don't compare yourself to others, do your best always. And as long as you do your best, you might not get that job, but if you do your best, they'll call you in for the next one. And they'll call you in for the next one. And once, and then once in a while, one of those times doing your best, it'll be your turn to get the part.

[44:59] Alan Seales: And last question, if you could only see one show for the rest of your life, but you can see it as many times as you want, what show would you see?

[45:04] John Bolton: Does it need to be something I've never seen? Or can it be something anything?

[45:07] Alan Seales: Well, I am upset. I think guys and dolls is about the most perfect musical ever written. And I think it would be really thrilling to see that original production in the 50s and just see where it all started. So I would imagine that and I would never ever get tired of that. That wonderful score.

[45:27] Alan Seales: Wonderful. And so now, thank you for coming. We can find you on Twitter and Instagram at it's John Bolton. And that's it.

[45:34] John Bolton: Yeah. Oh, Facebook. You mentioned Facebook, too, right? What's your Facebook account?

[45:37] John Bolton: I don't know. I think it's just John Bolton. But I only I do sort of save that for, you know, the people I like, people I went to high school with, and friends from my hometown. But yeah, Instagram and Twitter, blue dot. I'm John Bolton. And I love it. I'll click like if I like it enough. If you make me laugh, I will always click like.

[45:56] Alan Seales: Wonderful. Well, everybody send John your best dad jokes.

[46:04] John Bolton: Please do. Because I am your dad. You don't know it yet, but I am your dad.

[46:10] Alan Seales: You can get more of me theater underscore podcast on Instagram and Twitter, Facebook dot com slash official theater podcast. Wherever you're listening now, please rate, share, follow, give an honest review. I love reading those. You can send me an email via feedback at the theater podcast dot com. This is produced by Jillian Hockman. The music you're hearing right now is by Jukebox the Ghost. John Bolton, thank you so much.

[46:31] John Bolton: Thank you for chatting with me. This has been incredible. It's an honor. Thank you.

[46:39] Alan Seales: Take a deep breath, make the world a little colorful.