This transcript was automatically generated and might contain errors.

[0:01] Alan Seales: Welcome to The Theatre Podcast, intimate, personal conversations with the industry's biggest names. I'm your host, Alan Seales, and our guest today is a new friend of mine, Mauro Refosco. He is this wonderful Brazilian gentleman. He's the percussionist in American Utopia on Broadway right now. He's been working with David Byrne and touring with the Talking Heads since 1994, right after he got his master's degree in percussion, of all things. I didn't know you could get a master's degree as a percussionist, but this dude did it. He's got some new music that we get into. We talk about his touring career. He's just one of the nicest people. You know, I love this guy. He's great. He's awesome. So, I hope you enjoy it as much as I do.

Find me online on Instagram and Twitter at Theatre Underscore Podcast. Leave a rating and a review for the podcast wherever you're listening now. Make sure to go see American Utopia, by the way, because it just announced its final extension on Broadway through April 3rd. And now, everybody, please enjoy this episode with Mauro Refosco.

[1:13] Alan Seales: I'm so excited to introduce our guest today. I started to write this intro and realized that beginning here is just best plagiarized from his own website. So, here we go. I'm going to add a little bit of my own flair. He's a professional percussionist and person who likes to bang on things, who performs and records with artists such as David Byrne, Red Hot Chili Peppers, Tom York's Atoms for Peace. After beginning his touring career in '94, as Byrne's percussionist, he returned to New York City and joined cult creative ensemble The Lounge Lizards playing experimental punk jazz. I love that. He formed his own band, Forro in the Dark, which has recorded four full-length albums and performed at major domestic and international festivals.

He has even also composed music and soundtracks for movies, television, fashion shows, and off-Broadway plays. You can now find him walking around barefoot on Broadway in American Utopia. Let me see if I can get your name right. Mauro Refosco. Welcome to The Theatre Podcast. Did I do that? Did I do that right?

[2:12] Mauro Refosco: You did great.

[2:19] Alan Seales: Okay. So, obviously, as an American, I butchered your Brazilian name. So, I want to start with your Brazilian origin story. So, tell me, you grew up born in Brazil. So, how did you get into performing?

[2:30] Mauro Refosco: Well, I was born in this little city in the south of Brazil called Juiz de Fora. It's a mystery for me how I got into performance, but I can give you my version of it. Please. I think, you know, like I was into playing soccer. That was my passion, and it still is one of my passions, and I used to go to the stadium. There was a little stadium and a team in the city that I grew up, and I used to go in every game. I was like a big fan. And at the stadium, in Brazil, there was always people drumming and playing samba, and that was my first experience with drumming. Not that I played because they wouldn't let me touch the instruments, but I was really close to the people that were playing, you know, the guys that were jamming.

So, watching the game and playing samba. It's fascinating because it's something very musical. You know, if the team is attacking and almost scoring a goal, the samba is like, it's like fast. But then if it's like, you know, like defending, it's kind of like, you know, it's like there is this silence. So, it's something very, it's very musical. And I like that. So, that was my first experience with music.

[4:04] Alan Seales: That's interesting because it's essentially creating a live soundtrack, right? And everybody wants their own entrance music. I want to walk into a door and walk through a door and have my entrance music.

[4:16] Mauro Refosco: Yeah, exactly. It's exactly that. It's creating your own soundtrack and, you know, and it's right there. So, what's the difference between a drummer and a percussionist?

[4:32] Mauro Refosco: Oh, I think the drummer, it's, you know, there's this drum set is something very specific, you know, like it's this group of instruments that there is a whole vocabulary and there is a whole set of like rhythms that are played with that. And so, it has something very, like, established pattern, you know, like, which is like a snare drum, bass drum, hi-hat cymbals, and then maybe some toms. So, that's a drum set. The percussion, it's like basically everything else that's not a drum set. So, it's this vast, huge family of drums, usually from different nations, you know, like there is the classical percussion, you know, like the instruments that are used in symphony orchestras, like the classical timpanis, snare drums, bass drums, cymbals, then goes into the mallet instruments, which is the melodic percussion, like vibraphone, marimba, glockenspiel, xylophone, into the more ethnic percussion, you know, then that's where the vastness, you know, gets really vast.

[6:01] Alan Seales: Is one a subset of the other? Or if you can do one, you can do the other? Or, like, would you be able to sit down at a standard drum set and knock out a, you know, like, or you're like, no, give me, you know, all these videos and we're gonna get into the David Byrne wackiness of all of this, because you're having to invent new ways of walking, literally walking around with percussion instruments. But are you able to sit down at a drum set and just knock out a great rhythm? Or is that a completely different skill set? And you're like, no, I need a drummer for that, but I'm gonna go do this other amazing thing.

[6:36] Mauro Refosco: I think, to some extent, I can do that. There is, I think there's a limitation on how much I can do on the drum set, because it's a specific technique that you, you know, you develop, like, especially using your, because you use all four limbs, like, so I think my legs are not quite there with my hands. But, you know, I can, I can butcher something if I have to.

[7:11] Alan Seales: Well, you, you seem like a very humble guy, so I'm gonna brag for you. You, you went to, you're with these soccer games, which I, do you call them football or soccer? Did you say soccer just because I'm American?

[7:20] Mauro Refosco: Well, I call it soccer because we're, like, in America.

[7:24] Mauro Refosco: Yes, yes. In my heart, I call it football.

[7:27] Alan Seales: I'm in the middle of, of season two of Ted Lasso, so I've got the whole...

[7:30] Mauro Refosco: Oh my god, really?

[7:32] Alan Seales: Yeah.

[7:32] Mauro Refosco: Isn't that the greatest show ever?

[7:36] Alan Seales: I know, I love it. And Jason Sudeikis, that dude, he's created this character. I feel like it's something he invented with his friends, and he's like, all right, let's, let's turn this into a show, because Coach Beard is his friend in real life. They created it together, and I'm just, I'm fascinated by this whole, this whole character.

[7:50] Mauro Refosco: Yeah, the whole plot of, like, leaving Kansas to go coach, like, a Premier League. It's amazing.

[8:01] Alan Seales: Yeah, I love it. I know, I know, I love it. Okay, so back to you. You're, you're at, you're in these soccer stadiums seeing all this stuff, and then at some point, you decide, I'm gonna do this professionally, and decide to do that because you got a bachelor's degree in percussion from Sao Paulo State University in '90, moved to New York in '92, and then went to Manhattan School of Music with a master's in, you got a master's in percussion in '94, and then immediately in '94, started touring with David Byrne. So obviously, you're good at this stuff. And I want to, I want to hear, like, what was that, what was that moment where you're like, yeah, I want to beat on things professionally for the rest of my life?

[8:44] Mauro Refosco: Well, there, there is a, there is a moment, you know, it's, it's so funny, it's still vivid in my memory. I think it was the first time I saw a symphony orchestra playing. There was a theater in this city that I, I, I was living there, and I moved from the little city that I was born. And this symphony orchestra came to, to town, and I went to see the concert, you know, it was like, maybe I was like 15. And I think they were playing Carmen Overture, and there was a moment that the percussionist, he, he lifts up the tambourine, and he hits the tambourine in such a dramatic way, and such an effective way that I was like, wow, I want to do that. And, and that was it, you know, I, I, I had already the passion for, for music, and I was, I was started already practicing, but there was the moment that I decided, okay, this is what I want to do.

And, and then I just, you know, it gave me the, the, the strength to pursue that. Because to be a musician, you have to really, it has to click. And then once it clicks, you have to pursue, because it's, it's kind of not, not an easy, you know.

[10:08] Mauro Refosco: Not at all. Not an easy path. No, nothing about being an artist is easy. Yeah, I, I, I know there is the, the personal struggles that we all go through being an artist. Also the, the struggles of, like, it, because it's so vast of what you can do, and it's always a mystery how you're gonna do that, how you're gonna get that, how you're gonna be an orchestra player, how you're gonna be in a band, or how you're gonna, so it's like, oh my God, you have to face so many things. And also, on top of that, you have to practice, you have to develop your skills. I think I was able to organize that in my mind, you know, like, in a way that I had to, okay, you have to practice, but at the same time, you have to think of the future, what are you going to be doing?

So I, I was able to, to have the discernment of, like, always kind of, like, planning a little step ahead. So when I, when I was 19, I, I joined this university, and then maybe in the second year of the university, I was like, oh, the next step is to do a master. And so I started looking for universities then, you know, like, maybe even halfway before I complete my, my, my undergrad, I was already looking for, you know, like, choosing a place to go and do my master's. And that's where I came across the Manhattan School of Music. And so, you know, I always kind of, like, had this sense of, like, a little bit of preparation to what the next step was going to be.

[11:48] Alan Seales: Is it, is there a lot of competition in this space? Because I hear, you know, all these stories about these singers and, and, and dancers, and, and I gotta get into, you know, like, Manhattan School of Music is this great school, and Juilliard is this great school, and NYU is this great school, and there's all these people trying to do the popular things. And to me, and I'm not saying percussion isn't popular, I guess what I'm asking is, is it rare for someone to want to focus specifically on percussion, like you've done? Or are there a lot of people that are just standing in line to get in? How does, how does that work from a schooling perspective, an academic perspective?

[12:30] Mauro Refosco: Yeah, of course, there is a little competition, because you always, in these cases, you know, you have to do auditions, you know, to be accepted at a school, there is a certain number of places, and then a certain number of candidates. Sometimes it's like even negative, so you can enter easily. But in this case, you know, like, at the university that I went in Brazil, maybe there was like, there was three places a year. And maybe there was like 12 candidates. And in the case of Manhattan School of Music was, was really, it was a mix of luck, and also a mix of like, you know, maybe skills that I had to get there. Because I studied with this guy, Christopher Lamb. He's the principal percussionist of New York Philharmonic.

And he chose one student a year from all over the world, you know, people came from all over and did auditions. I sent like a VCR to him, and he, and he chose me. So it was, it was really, you know, it's luck, and also, you know, a set of skills. So it's a combination.

[13:39] Mauro Refosco: But going back a little bit on your question about the competition, I think once you accept who you are, you know, in the in this music spectrum, I don't think there is competition anymore, you have just to trust yourself, you're unique, you're like, you know, as a percussionist, as a drummer, you're like,

[14:01] Mauro Refosco: Unique entity and that that will take care of itself, you know, that will be. You're gonna find your way that that's a kind of a common theme in general in the arts is if you're gonna the people who I have found are truly successful and comfortable in their own skin are the ones who embrace exactly what makes them unique and different because if you're trying to be like other people you're never gonna get there. You're always not gonna not be good enough. Yeah, you're always gonna be comparing yourself and you know, it's it's not not a good place to be. So, okay you graduate 90 for 1994 talking heads David Byrne. How does that happen? Cuz that's that's huge you graduate and all of a sudden you're doing this huge tour.

[14:49] Mauro Refosco: Well was it was a process, you know when I came to to to well before I left Brazil, I always had passion for popular music and you know, like so even though I was in a classical school, I was doing like popular percussion, you know, like playing the Brazilian instruments playing the samba drums playing bearing bow the capoeira all the other styles of music and when I came to to Manhattan now I experienced this kind of freedom that it just hit me like and I was able to say no, I don't want to be a classical percussionist I want to be really a popular percussionist, you know play pop music and play, you know because there are so many venues and there is much more freedom in doing that than rather than playing an orchestra.

And once that came, you know once that was clear in my mind. I start playing everywhere I could in in Manhattan, of course, I was, you know, we studying and practicing in school but at school I was playing with the big bands, you know the jazz big bands not just the classical ensembles. Of course. I was playing the classical ensembles, too but I was expanding my my my horizons and then I start playing gigs around town you know, I was playing samba on the subway samba on Central Park if weddings, you know, I was playing everywhere anywhere, you know that could feed me. I was I was there and in and I think I got this this call to to to audition for David's band and and because he was looking for someone to play percussion and the mallet instruments vibraphone and marimba for a tour that he was doing.

[16:40] Mauro Refosco: And I went in and it was funny. I went in was the first time I was doing an audition for pop music, you know so they sent me a cassette with three songs I learned the songs and I went in and played with the band and play with David and I think it went well and they all you know said wow, that was great. That was really nice. Thank you, and I came straight to David he said so did I get the job? And he was like taken back, you know, he's like, oh well, we still have more people to audition but I had no idea how that process work, you know and well a couple of weeks later his his manager Dan called me and said yeah, I think we want you to come and do an interview and and then you know like and that was it we're gonna take a short break stay tuned for more of the episode.

[17:47] Mauro Refosco: The interview, what do you do you interview well, I guess I never thought about an actual interview after an audition like that so what was what was the interview? It was actually was I think she wants to just to get to know me but there was a moment that was really funny that you know, she was just like oh, so I think she was just getting to know me a little bit better, you know like and get maybe my visa status or you know, like all this but but at some point she was like she turned to me and asked me so do you want to sing backing vocals and I was like sure I want to sing backing vocals. She didn't ask me like can you sing backing vocals? And of course, I want to sing backing vocals, you know, who doesn't want to sing backing vocals and of course, I could not sing backing vocals because I have never practiced that.

[19:00] Mauro Refosco: So they gave me a microphone like this kind of Madonna like microphone, you know the ones that you cannot run away from me and I was playing all these drums and all this percussion and at the same time I was supposed to sing backing vocals in all these songs that I had no idea what to do and that was like really there was the scary part of that tour and at some point I went to David and said man I'm so sorry, but I don't think I can do this and he was very generous and you know, he understood.

[19:32] Mauro Refosco: You mean sing the backup vocals or sing just do the percussion? Yeah, I end up just there was one song burning down the house there all you have to do is shut out burning down the house. That was my only backing vocals I end up singing. That's fun, so were you over the over the time like you've been with David for so long now and over time have when did you start I guess helping him create new music and then especially like coming into American Utopia. It was such a unique way to perform music. There's nobody sitting in one spot you're a percussionist until American Utopia. I'd never seen a percussionist move around a stage before right?

[20:17] Mauro Refosco: Yeah, there was you know, like I did many projects with him and many tours there was one very special and called grown backwards a record from 2004 there was I think I was more involved in the the creative of the recording of like the and and that was very special because he sent like snips of like music ideas and and so we went to the studio based on those music ideas and in made this record the other was American Utopia, you know like I came in really early in the process of recording the record and I lay down percussion on a lot of the tracks and it took him maybe a couple of years to finish the record so when when he sent me the record was already something else that you know the first sketches that I saw and and he explained me the concept. He wrote an email saying the idea is to have this stage absolutely empty listen to the music and tell me how many drummers or percussionist would take to to recreate this music.

[21:35] Mauro Refosco: So I you know, I sat down and I listen and start, you know, notating the drums and I wrote back to him and say the minimum would be four people you know that we would be carrying the instruments and you know, like eight would be amazing. So he said you have six so he gave me the liberty of like getting six players, you know, so I assembled this ensemble I called my friends, you know, mostly my friends and say do you guys want to go on road on the road and you know like playing drums wearing the drums and also doing a little bit of choreography and everybody was into the idea.

[22:17] Mauro Refosco: I said you're insane. What are you talking about? Yeah, I'll be back when you're not drunk. Yeah, we and we had our own bus, you know like because I think there's limitations on like two buses, you know, how many people you can fit in a bus? So we end up having one buzz and we call it the drum bus that's the six drummers in a driver like riding this bus. Yeah, the driver was like I got the best bus you guys were oh man I think that guy suffered because we play music so loud and we're jamming and but I think he was really cool.

[22:56] Mauro Refosco: So when when was that in the timeline of of discography right because I know American Utopia as as an album has been around for a long time but then obviously bringing it to Broadway was just before the pandemic right? Yeah the album, I think it came out I think I'm not sure if it's late 2017 maybe early 2018 and that's when we did tour. Yeah, that was when we did this world tour and and the idea was, you know, like, you know David's always exploring, you know different venues and so and he had done a musical called here lies love that played it the public theaters never made to Broadway but I think he had access to producers and and at some point, you know during the tour he realized that maybe Broadway would be a good fit for that tour, you know because of the you know it's not just a musical show, you know, it's not just a concert. There is something else, you know, we are moving we are the set there is something else in there.

[24:11] Mauro Refosco: So he brought in producers and the producers like the idea and then help him to explore that and so there was this transition, you know when we finished the touring end of 2018 maybe there was like a six months of you know like they had to make whatever adjustments to go to Broadway and and then there was a little bit of change, you know from the tour they cut a few songs and David include like a narrative. There is a little bit of storyline you can tell you can say he's speaking a little bit more in between songs. It's very topical and a little bit political. I really like it. I've actually I guess I'm gonna ask the question, but I want you to finish your story about if with the current situation with Russia and Ukraine if that's changed the show at all but go back to your story about the changes.

[25:14] Mauro Refosco: Right. Yeah, so there's this narrative and it's talk about maybe it's like talk about himself and how he feels also talk about the political aspect of it and how better we can be as human beings. Answer your question no, we don't mention the because it's such a new event, you know in the big picture I think it's in there as well because it's a it's an atrocity that's happening so so the show was fit in the sense to be a you know like in did in in Broadway and it's it's not a classical Broadway show, you know but it's a it it reaches that audience as well so he crosses, you know it brings like the audience from David, you know pop and the rock and roll into this new avenue which is it's amazing. You know, he's really creating a new a new avenue for other artists to explore that did you ever think that this path would lead you to Broadway?

[26:19] Mauro Refosco: No. It's so funny I I went once to see a Broadway show maybe and once I watch a Broadway show from the Pete and and I don't have anything against it I love it and but it wasn't my you know like my passion. My passion is something else, you know, and so it wasn't something that I was pursuing but doing this this this run and having access to a little bit a bit a better understanding of the whole thing and I grew up to respect and appreciate and you know like enjoy it and you open Kovid shuts you down. So then you're like, alright. Well, I mean what's going through your mind at that point where you say? I've made it on Broadway. We've got this great thing. And now all of a sudden it's got cut short. Did you think it would come back? What was going on behind the scenes during all this time?

[27:22] Mauro Refosco: Well, there is certainly but a lot of moments of uncertainties, you know like everyone experienced that during the pandemic where you have to put your feet on the ground and just like say, you know, trust the unknown but at the same time, you know like people were you know, not just the Broadway world but all over the world people are like, you know, like finding a solution for this problem when the vaccines became available in you know a reality, I think that you know allow this the producers of this industry, you know per se, you know that

[28:03] Mauro Refosco: It was so primal, so important for New York City to think of reopening. And so when that started, that whole conversation started, we started hearing back from the producers and from David, and getting the plan back to bring the show back up. So we are really lucky in that sense. You know, as soon as Broadway opened, we were one of the first shows to be at.

[28:33] Alan Seales: Yeah. I was at your reopening. It was an incredible show. It still is. And side note, I haven't mentioned this yet, because the show announced its final extension. You've been extended and extended and brought back and extended. And now the final extension, they say final. Who knows? The final extension now is through April 3rd. So if you're listening now, get your tickets because who knows when it's going to be back. But COVID actually kind of went through part of the cast, right? And instead of shutting down or cancelling performances like every other show basically has to do because you're running out of swings and standbys, you guys completely reworked it again to do like a limited, not limited, I guess. Well, what happened then when you were like, we don't have enough people to perform the full show?

[29:28] Mauro Refosco: Yeah. It was like this domino effect. One guy got sick, then the other, then the other, you know, like, and then we started running out of like understudies. And then at some point it was like, oh, I don't think we can do the show. And David was like, maybe we can just, you know, maybe I can pick up the guitar and play some songs. And of course, let the audience know if, you know, that this is what, you know, you can, he joke, you know, there is a show behind this curtain. You can either take it or leave. And so a lot of audience came. Yeah, we worked, you know, he, he, well, he has a big repertoire, you know, from his, his, his collection of songs. So he, he chose a few that would be on his guitar playing easy.

And, and then we just work out like maybe we had two rehearsals and was very exposed and naked, you know, kind of arrangements for the songs, which I think it made it special. It worked out great. The first show, everybody was nervous in the last show. We'd last for like a week. We played maybe six shows. The last show, everybody was like, I want to keep doing this because it's fun.

[30:52] Alan Seales: I think it's amazing to watch professional musicians who kind of have, I mean, they've been playing together for a long time, right? There's an energy, there's an unspoken connection that all of you have to each other and know. I mean, I feel like Fish is one of those great examples of they, they just know when, when the tempo needs to increase and where, you know, where to get pianissimo and where to go fortissimo. And it's just, you move together in, in all of these different places without having to specifically say it. So when you said you only had two rehearsals, I was like, what? Two rehearsals for a Broadway show? But then I was like, okay, great. This is, I know who I'm talking to here. You guys could do this in your sleep.

[31:33] Mauro Refosco: I had done this concert with David once. He was a guest of Caetano's Veloso. He did like this curated week of shows at Carnegie Hall. I think this was 2004. And David was, you know, one of the guests. And David invited me to play with him. So it was very, you know, it was just David playing his guitar and I was playing percussion. So it was very stripped down and naked. So we, we had that in our, and works, you know, it was great. You know, people loved it. So we had that, you know, certainty. I went to his, his dressing room and said, yeah, we did that once and you know, it sure works. So maybe why, why not try again? And, you know, so he put the repertoire together. And so you have this sense, this little bit of like, as you said, you know, it's like, I know when you're going to know when to play louder, play softer, but you just trust yourself and do it. And it happens.

[32:43] Alan Seales: I, well, it's great because you're good at what you do and you trust each other. And you just, I mean, there are no mess ups because you just go with it and change what you're doing. I, I absolutely love that about musical improv is, is that you really can't mess up because if you're all listening to each other, you just move in the same direction when somebody pivots.

[33:04] Mauro Refosco: Yeah. Even mistakes, man. They're like, they're great. Mistakes are part of what makes us humans. And if you, of course you can take in a way so dramatic, say no, no, made a mistake and, or say, oh, I made a mistake. It's, it's, it's okay.

[33:21] Alan Seales: So, you, I believe are, you're based out of New York City now and you've started, you've got your own studio.

[33:28] Mauro Refosco: Yeah. And I know I'm probably going to butcher the name of this as well, but it's, it looks like it's written in English, super legal, but I think it's pronounced super legal.

[33:40] Mauro Refosco: You got it.

[33:41] Alan Seales: Yes. All right. Wow.

[33:44] Mauro Refosco: You have something for language. I can tell.

[33:48] Alan Seales: Yeah. It's, it's, it's the mimic in me. Like I've never been a dancer, but I can look at something and be like, okay, let's move like this. I don't know what I'm doing, but I can do it.

[33:57] Mauro Refosco: Well, thank you. Yeah. So you super legal is located in Bushwick. And so is that what, like, is that where you're moving now? Like at this point in your life, you want to start producing more or do you use it to write more, help others? Like, so what, what is your main focus of the studio?

[34:16] Mauro Refosco: Well, I, I was interested in, in the music technology of it. Like since, you know, the beginning of when Pro Tools came out in early, you know, like late nineties or in the nineties, I had computers. So I always kept a studio as a home studio, as a, you know, as a, as another instrument. I see it as just another instrument. And then I had this big collection of drums that I kept in storage, you know, and a lot of percussion instruments. And at some point in 2010, I finally got access to a space that I could actually store the instruments and also use to play in, you know, and then I moved my studio in there and I start recording and, and then I start like working remotely, you know, people either in New York City or instead of like me having to carry the instruments to a different studio, I would say, you can just come here and, you know, I have good microphones, I have good preamps and I have all my instruments here and we can record.

Started kind of ghetto in a little bit, but then, you know, it started getting a little bit better, you know, like soundproofing and making, getting the right gear and understanding, you know, like how acoustics work. And then I finally got a partner, Jake Owen. And then I think it took a, a, a bigger step, you know, like in Brazilian, more professional pronounced Jake Owen, Jake Owen is a guitar player from Texas. He's a great producer.

[36:04] Mauro Refosco: No, I've just been butchering the Brazilian names of the American name. I'm like, Oh, Jake Owen. Okay. I can see.

[36:10] Alan Seales: Yeah. Imagine if it was like Francisco Albuquerque.

[36:15] Mauro Refosco: But, but the studio allows me to, to work with people like during the pandemic, I was really busy and because I was going to the studio a lot, like writing, producing, and I did, I collaborate with this, this really good friend of mine, Joey Warnecker. We, we made this record that came out on Sony Masterworks last year. And the name of the band is Jomoro.

[36:39] Alan Seales: I was literally about to bring that up. I'm looking at the cover art for Blue Marble Sky right now.

[36:45] Mauro Refosco: Yeah. Blue Marble Sky. And it was, it was like, of course we started, we started working on those music and in those jams and music, which became, you know, Blue Marble Sky like in 2016. But really during the pandemic is where we, we kind of like digging deeper to finish. So, you know, that was one good thing that came out of that.

[37:12] Alan Seales: Did you record remotely or were you quarantining together? Because I, I was looking on your Instagram account for, for the band and you've got clips put together of, of two or three or four of you playing various songs and you all look like you're in different spaces recording at home. I put in air quotes.

[37:29] Mauro Refosco: Yeah, we, we were, he lives in Los Angeles and I live in New York City, but the first session, the initial session, we were together in Los Angeles. That was, we spent a week at this, this studio called Boat. And yeah, but then when we start like working, it was like remotely.

[38:00] Alan Seales: I love it. I, I was actually, I had Blue Marble Sky on last night while I was researching you and preparing for the interview today. And so stick to, everyone stick to the end. Instead of my normal outro music, I'm going to play, I'm going to have No Air play us out because that's, that's my new favorite song right now.

[38:16] Mauro Refosco: That's a good jam.

[38:21] Alan Seales: So let's wrap up here with three standard closing questions that I ask everybody on the podcast. The first one, just very simply, is what motivates you?

[38:25] Mauro Refosco: Wow. The will of living, breathing and, and to see what's next. There is always this, you know, like, I think the best is about to come, you know.

[38:38] Alan Seales: I love that. Okay. So what advice would you give to your younger self and younger people listening now starting out down a similar path?

[38:46] Mauro Refosco: Just trust yourself. It's, there's moments that, you know, you're always going to have doubts and, you know, just ride through those waves, you know, those, eventually you're going to find a place where you're going to feel at easy and, you know, better with yourself.

[39:02] Alan Seales: Okay. So last question, this is super hard and you can interpret it any way you will. If you can only see one show for the rest of your life, but you can see it as many times as you want, what would you see?

[39:11] Mauro Refosco: So normally this is for like Broadway folks, but you can, you can be any show, any show you want to see.

[39:21] Mauro Refosco: Yeah. Oh, I think would be this, this, I love this story of musical for her music, which is, I have a band called for her in the dark. There was a guy that was like amazing, a God of like for her music. And his name is Jackson Dupande. And I would love to see him. He passed already, but there was something I wish I had seen him live.

[40:04] Alan Seales: Oh, oh. So I just scroll back up to the intro and my notes. I said for her in the dark. So it is for her in the dark.

[40:05] Mauro Refosco: For her in the dark.

[40:07] Alan Seales: My fault, my fault.

[40:12] Mauro Refosco: You're like amazing.

[40:15] Alan Seales: It's not an easy word to say and you got it perfect.

[40:19] Mauro Refosco: Well, thank you. Thank you. I just, you know, need another life as a, as a linguist.

[40:24] Alan Seales: So where can we find you online and plug all your bands too? You've got different accounts for all your bands.

[40:27] Mauro Refosco: Well, I use social media. I use Instagram. So Mauro Refosco and also I have a website maurorefosco.com where, you know, people can, I guess, learn a little bit more about what I'm doing or what I did, you know, like getting in touch and that kind of thing.

[40:45] Mauro Refosco: And then, yeah, so all of the places we'll put everything in the show notes. So if you have no idea how to spell Mauro Refosco, then, you know, we can just, just look in the show notes. It'll be there. Of course, check out Jamoro, the new band, Blue Marble Sky is the album. I love this stuff. You're hearing No Air playing underneath us right now. You can get more of me at thetheaterpodcast.com. I'm on Instagram and Twitter at thetheaterpodcast. Please leave a rating and a review wherever you're listening now. And Mauro, thank you so much. I've had so much fun getting to know you.

[41:22] Mauro Refosco: Alan, it's been a pleasure. It's really, it's really nice talking to you. Thank you so much.

[41:41] Mauro Refosco: Thank you.