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[0:00] Alan Seales: Welcome to The Theatre Podcast. Intimate, personal conversations with the industry's biggest names. I'm Alan Seales and we're interrupting our Hadestown takeover to bring you a special little bonus episode here with Telly Leung and Cameron Adams. Both are involved with this brand new movie that just came out on Broadway On Demand called Ensemble. And it's throwing the spotlight back onto Ensemblists, members of Ensemble across Broadway. And Cameron is one of the people featured in this conversation. Telly is a producer on the project.

[0:37] Alan Seales: This conversation that the movie documents happens one year, almost to the day of when Broadway shut down. And then as the movie just got released on Broadway On Demand, it's almost to the day two years after Broadway got shut down. So it takes us back to those feels that we had missing our industry and watching everything grind to a halt. Remember when we thought it was only a few weeks and we'd be back in a month, two months? So we've learned a lot. Lots of things have happened. This is just a great project that needs to be shared. So everybody go to broadwayondemand.com, watch Ensemble, and enjoy this conversation with Telly Leung and Cameron Adams.

[1:25] Alan Seales: I'm excited to talk to our two amazing guests today in no particular order. Let's start with Telly Leung, who made his Broadway debut in the 2002 revival of Flower Drum Song before moving on to some incredible notable roles, such as the title role in Aladdin and of course, in Rent and co-starring in Allegiance alongside cultural legend George Takei. Our next guest is Cameron Adams, who has over a dozen Broadway credits on her resume. She made her debut in the 2000 revival of The Music Man and now will return to Broadway in Mrs. Doubtfire when it opens for the second time post-COVID. They are both here now to discuss a brand new documentary called Ensemble that just dropped on March 11th on Broadway On Demand. And it's a look inside the private lives of Broadway Ensemble members recorded a year after Broadway shut down. Telly and Cameron, welcome to The Theatre Podcast.

[2:20] Telly Leung: Thrilled to be here, Alan.

[2:21] Cameron Adams: Thank you.

[2:22] Alan Seales: Cameron, you were in Ensemble. You're one of the people that was part of this conversation, and we'll get into the format of it in a second. And Telly, you produced it. You're one of the producers on this, right?

[2:33] Telly Leung: That's right.

[2:33] Alan Seales: So for you, I guess it was sort of co-created by Mo Brady, notably of the ensemblist. And I want to give props to Mo right off the bat because his podcast and his efforts have always been very focused on highlighting the works and the effort of the ensemble members, which are unsung heroes of the Broadway community. And gosh, I guess taking a step back from there, you've got Swing, Standbys, Understudies, Everybody, Alternates, who are oftentimes in the ensemble in their own right until they go on to these other tracks. So it takes a village. Everybody, side note, don't just idolize your leads. Idolize your ensemble because this is a hard-ass business.

[3:22] Alan Seales: So Telly, for you, tell me how you got involved with Ensemble in the first place because producer can mean many different things.

[3:30] Telly Leung: That's right. So in this particular instance, I came on board because Aaron Albano and Mo Brady, this was really their idea and their baby. They said to me, hey, we really want to gather these 13 diverse, multi-generational Broadway ensemble members on the one-year anniversary of the Broadway shutdown. So that's March of 2021 to get together and have a masked dance class, as well as having a socially distanced conversation about how the year has been, what their life is like now with no Broadway and what they were looking forward to as Broadway starts to come back. So when they told me about this, they said we had another producer involved. That producer ended up pulling out at the very last minute.

And Aaron really called me for advice, saying, I don't know what to do because here we are at the middle of February and it's about a month until the one-year anniversary when they wanted to shoot this thing at Open Jar Studios, and they lost all of their funding. And ultimately, my job was just going, wait a minute. So I have a month and how much money do you need? And what sort of space do you need? And what are the COVID restrictions? And keep in mind, this is March of 2021. So this is pre-vaccines for people our age, for most of us. Our parents were vaccinated at this point. This is also after a really tumultuous 2020 of having not only an unprecedented shutdown for our industry, but also this is after the summer of 2020, which was George Floyd, all of the protests on the streets, those conversations about racial and social justice.

This was after a really heated election. This was after an insurrection on the Capitol. So many things that happened at this point in March of 2020. And now that we are speaking to one another in March of 2022, it feels like, oh gosh, we went through all of that just a year ago. But keep in mind, this was really just a giant question mark. And so I felt it was really important to capture it. So my job as a producer here was just figuring it out step by step, how to make that happen, how to get these 13 people in a room, how to get those four camera folks in a room and our COVID compliance officer and get the space ready and just create a space where everybody could be themselves for the seven hours of footage that we ended up getting.

[6:00] Telly Leung: I guess COVID compliance officer, this was before vaccinations, like you said, for people our age. And there was no Broadway to even be thought about at that point. So COVID compliance was already a thing. I don't remember when all of the COVID compliance officers started to be implemented by the union. Technically, we shot this on a SAG contract because it's a documentary. So SAG had certain rules about what sort of COVID compliance needed to happen, what sort of testing needed to happen before you could get on set. So this wasn't necessarily the equity rules. It was the SAG rules.

[6:29] Alan Seales: SAG-AFTRA, yeah, yeah. Gotcha. Okay. So then, I guess, Cameron, for you, how did you get involved with this? And then, I guess, was it cathartic to have these sort of conversations? Because you're in a room with, Telly, as you said, multi-generational, very diverse in terms of there was an age range, and there's a racial diversity that is very, very important, and even a binary identification diversity that was part of this conversation.

[7:00] Cameron Adams: It was incredible. And to be totally honest, it kind of became something, I don't know, Telly could probably speak more on this, but Aaron Albano reached out to me. And I've known Telly and Aaron and Mo a very long time. And I feel like we all sort of started and came up around the same time, at least Telly and Aaron and myself. And when Aaron reached out, it was a while before. And I think the idea was sort of to sit down and talk about our personal lives and experiences and journeys within the industry and all of that. And same sort of thing, very diverse in all of those categories that you listed. And I was like, yeah, sure. And also, like Telly just said, there had been a lot of sitting around, there was a lot of... Everybody's independent journey was so different.

It was so fascinating to then eventually get to that point after the year that we had had, tagged on to everybody's live before that, and really sit and listen and hear. And it was a long time to sit and listen. And yet, it went by really quickly. And I found it fascinating. I honestly did. I left there feeling exhausted, emotionally and physically, because I hadn't been dancing that much. And we did this fabulous dance class before with my buddy Carla Garcia, who's just the best. And you're surrounded by all of these people who are your peers, and some of them are brand new in the industry. And then there were a few of us who had been doing this for... I'm in 22 years of doing this at this point.

So it was really awesome. And I felt like I left there. Like I said, I felt exhausted, but I also felt sort of, I don't know, excited for what was to come, and what the next sort of step was for our industry. And sort of like I said before, and I obviously can speak on this a little bit more, but I do think it evolved into something that maybe initially it wasn't. It evolved into something more, because times changed, and life changed, and everything sort of shifted a bit.

[9:22] Telly Leung: I mean, Cameron, here's the crazy thing about doing a documentary. I've produced other things, but usually there's a script, right? We had no idea what we were going to get. So, I mean, many of the conversations that I had with Aaron, and with Joey Monda, my producing partner, and also with Pierre Marais, who's the brilliant director on this, who's also an ensemblist himself. We were like, we don't know what we're going to get, nor do we want to curate this conversation and force any sort of reactions. We just want to leave the cameras rolling and have the most authentic responses come from these 13 people as possible. And a little bit of booze helps too. So, you get 13 ensemble members together, you give them a little booze, and it all helps the truth come out.

But keep in mind, again, not only did all of those crazy things happen in the world in March of 2021, Cameron's right. We had not been together. We went from spending hours and hours with each other backstage at auditions, running into each other in Hell's Kitchen, to all of a sudden not seeing one another. And I think so much of March of 2021 for me was like, I don't know how the world moves forward. I don't know how our industry moves forward. I don't know any of that. But I think what people walk away from after watching these 13 people talk for 50 minutes is that no matter what it is that's ahead, as long as we have each other, we're going to be okay. As long as we hear each other, and as long as we bring all of those different perspectives into it, whatever the future is, we're going to be all right as long as it's together.

[10:54] Telly Leung: I also thought it was so lovely because it was such a varied group of people. And I knew a handful of people going into it, obviously, for years, but then there were a lot of new faces that I was meeting or only heard of because of other friends or they were in casts with other friends or whatever. There was a lot of opportunity for it to get heated. And obviously, the conversations were very passionate. But everybody really listened and took in what everyone was saying and everyone's perspective and point of view and experience. And it was really encouraging, I found.

[11:32] Alan Seales: Looking back on it, have you been able to see it since?

[11:39] Cameron Adams: Yeah, okay. So looking back on it and seeing, I guess, probably remembering things as you were watching it that maybe were forgotten. Putting things into perspective now, so we're in March 2022, a year after the filming, which was a year after the shutdown. So we're in March 2022 right now. And looking back on what you said, do the things you said still resonate? Or have you, I guess, do you move on from that stress of being unknown? Because now you're in a show again, Broadway's back, but the show isn't back. But we're in previews, then COVID shut it down, then it came back, and then it went on hiatus, and then now the hiatus is pushed back. And we're still in this sort of tumultuous time. So what's going through your mind now after watching it again, a year later?

[12:25] Cameron Adams: I mean, watching it, well, my initial response, because we're always so critical of ourselves, was, oh my God, I talked too much, or oh my gosh, I said this, and blah, blah, blah. But no, I felt like the outcome was so beautiful, the way Pierre and everyone put it together and edited it and made sure... I don't know, I thought it was beautifully done. I'm still very proud of it, and I'm so proud to be a part of it, because I do think this is really special and unique and new and exciting. I have so many emotions about this business coming back. I would be a liar if I didn't tell you that...

[13:08] Cameron Adams: I have been on a rollercoaster ride of how I feel about all of it. Um, I was so thrilled to start back in September at Mrs. Doubtfire because I really love the show and the people involved. It's one of the funniest groups of human beings I've ever been around. So all we do is laugh and have a great time, including like the crew and our stage management team and everybody involved. Um, so for us to get to that place in a very safe way and then have, you know, Omicron kind of sweep in and tear us down in a time where we really needed to, um, make a lot of money financially. Um, the holiday season, as everyone knows for the Broadway industry is essentially your place where you make a lot of money to kind of float you through January and February when times are a little slow without a pandemic, you know, so add a pandemic and it's really, really tough.

And, um, so taking this hiatus has been like, you know, eye-opening of, I've always been a person who believes in having other interests outside of, um, what I do because ultimately what I do is my passion. Of course, I love dance. I love to sing. I love to act. I love musical theater. I love movies. I love all of it. So, um, I really dove into those other things and sort of took myself out for a second. Um, that was also during the pandemic, I will say like in the thick of it, but also with this time I've, I've been teaching and doing some other little things and I'm lucky to have a partner who is working and, um, in the theater, but on the, uh, you know, he's a stagehand. So he's like loading in a thousand shows and setting up a play right now and things like that.

I'm lucky in that regard, but it's, um, it has been a real journey of being prepared to come back to something and thinking, okay, this is either going to go really well or it's not. And that's always the gamble that we take, but for whatever reason, the stakes feel really high. Um, but I, I think also from where I am in my life and the age that I am and all that, I mean, I'll be 40 this year. So it's just a different, I'm in a different place of, you know, I I've done this, I've really done it. And I've done more than I ever thought I would do when I started at 17. I mean, if you had asked me at 17, that I'd be like playing roles on Broadway and understudying leading ladies and, and, um, you know, doing all these exciting things, I would have been like, what? Oh my Lord. You know? So I'm trying to be really open to whatever sort of presents itself. And if it looks a little different than it used to great, you know? And that's, that's where we are.

[15:03] Alan Seales: That's a really good perspective. And I think it's a healthy perspective to have. And, and there's, gosh, I mean, there's so much that needs to, needs to change in the world in general. Like, you know, you've got college kids coming out riddled with debt that can't earn enough to pay that off or find a place to live, but, you know, larger macro problems aside on a micro scale, what I think, um, is really important that Ensemble does. And, you know, Telly, I think you can probably speak to if this was intentional or how, how much intention was put in behind this was, um, the, the lack of diversity that is, um, involved in Broadway and the Broadway community. And, um, I guess just how, how the status quo has been the status quo for so long. And I love that you're calling attention that Ensemble calls attention to the fact that there are many people out there that are not just white men that can do this job and have done this job and are very good at it.

[16:48] Telly Leung: Well, what's interesting about that is it's, it's Broadway is diverse. It's just, when you look at the power structures of Broadway, they are not. So I think that that's sort of the next step, right? I mean, I think we've done a very good job in sort of very good, of course, with a longer way to go of diversity on stage of seeing that. But then when you really look at, and I think Carla speaks about this too, where she says, I'm, I'm the only person of color on this, at this production meeting when tech is over. And now we're on the whole production team is getting together. I'm the only person of color with that perspective at a meeting talking about what changes are we going to put into previews the next day?

She's like, that's, I don't know if that makes for good art, that lack of diversity, right? I don't know if that makes for good conversation. I don't know if that makes for good progress as we sort of look forward. So I, I think, I think it's interesting. Like, we never ask ensemble members, what do they think or what do they envision for the future? And yet, you know, and yet here we are, this diverse group of 13 people who have a lot of great ideas about what they want to see Broadway look like and sound like and who they want to see producing Broadway. I think it's, I think it's, I think it was just my job as a producer to, you know, turn the cameras on and give them the mic.

[18:03] Alan Seales: That's a, that's a wonderful idea. And you too, actually, like you've, you've sort of diversified your career in, in the past couple years, or maybe even longer, but, you know, doing some research in you and knowing you, you're saying this isn't the first thing you've produced. And so you're starting to get involved with this power structure and to help change it and to help influence. And I guess you've got a good relationship with, with George Takei, and I'm bringing him up not to name drop him, but God, let's name drop him for a second.

[18:36] Telly Leung: Yeah, he deserves it.

[18:39] Alan Seales: And did you, do you, when you were working with him, do you still work with him? Do you get, I guess, what have you learned by working with somebody of that stature who is so committed to being vocal about the honesty and lack of support for diverse individuals?

[19:06] Telly Leung: Yeah. I mean, here's the thing about George, George, there would be no Telly Leung if there wasn't a George Takei sort of clearing the path for me, you know, so I, I, I am fully aware that people like George Takei faced a lot more resistance and prejudice and racism coming up in this business than I, I ever will, I ever did or will. Right. And it's because of him and the progress he's made that I'm able to even do what it is that I'm doing. He's done everything from star in a TV show to do movies, to like produces, producing his own work, A La Allegiance, which is just a passion project for him to tell his story and the story of his community. And he's also run for office. I mean, he's done like all of, he was, you know, he was the first, he and Brad were two of the first gay people to get married in Sacramento and California when that was a legal thing as an act of protest.

So, you know, he's all of those things. He's artist, activist, producer. I think he wore so many hats, frankly. And I, and I think I take this on. I know I started producing my own work because I wasn't getting hired. Like I had to eat and make, make work for myself. I had to, I'm still an artist. I still had this energy to put output and tell stories. And if that was my own story, or if it was a story that wasn't going to make it into the commercial theater world, I found a way to tell it. For me, that was, I started producing my own club acts. So Flower Drum Song, my first Broadway show, it opened and closed in four months in 2002. There was a big musician strike. I'm sure Cameron remembers that, where we were picking on the streets and they closed our show on the streets on outside the Virginia theater.

Now the August Wilson theater. They said, by the way, there's a musician strike. We're on the picket line as equity members, you know, standing in solidarity with our, with our musician friends who were protesting minimums in Broadway shows. And they said, by the way, your show is closed. And I went from four years of college of Carnegie Mellon where I lived, breathed, slept theater. And then I went into rehearsals for a new Broadway show, a revised Broadway revival of a show. And then all of a sudden I had no job. And I was like, I have more stories to tell. I have more energy to give. And, you know, putting, putting together your own club act is you as producer. It's not only you as a vocalist and your show, but you are also the person handling your own budget, your own marketing, you know, whether that's printing postcards and leaving them at Ripley Greer.

Do people still do that? I don't even know, like for their club act. You know, like that's like, that's what it was. You know, I was, you sort of wear all the hats and that just eventually evolved into going, well, if I can put together my own club act at Don't Tell Mama with an $8 minimum, you know, $8 cover and a two drink minimum, I can do this on any scale, right? And produce the work I love, or in this case, produce the work that I believe in, that my friends love, that it's their vision. You know, this really is Aaron Albano and Moe Brady's brainchild and really Pierre's vision. It was just now it wasn't mine, but I sure wanted to be a part of bringing the resources to make it happen. So that's, that's sort of how that began.

But really, I, George is somebody who's a pioneer that without him, I wouldn't be doing this. But for you to see someone like George makes you realize it's possible for you to do it, which is the whole point of all this. It's like, you know, I've seen a million white ladies do, I mean, women, obviously we still have a long way to go, but it's a different thing. Like I've seen a million incredible, you know, at 13, when I saw Karen Zimbo play Polly in Crazy for You, and I'm on the front row of the mezzanine, the, you know, Schubert Theater, like with just silent tears, like streaming down my face going, how do I be that? How, how can I be that lady? Like, you know, I saw a lot of that, whereas like to see someone like George for you, that's incredible.

And it probably does inspire you to do more things like this, producing things and creating things. And really the, the heart of Ensemble is I, that's what I wanted. I wanted generations of theater, performing arts, theater kids to understand a, what we went through in 2020 and 2021, and also to see the resilience of these 13 very diverse people in different stages of their life and career, sort of, sort of still find a way through, right? Like these 13 people, we're going to watch this documentary 10 years from now and go, those, those folks survived a pandemic. Those folks were still artists through a pandemic. And if, and if a generation from now, 10 years from now, some theater kid at, you know, Carnegie Mellon or Michigan, or some theater kid watching at home, streaming it, we're all holograms by then, they're probably watching hologram versions of Ensemble.

That like, you know, like, like, like they feel inspired that they go, if those 13 people can do it and make it like, maybe I can too. And I see myself in one or several of those folks because, and that was the point of keeping the diversity of the group. A combination of people, like a melt of people, melding of people.

[23:56] Cameron Adams: Yeah. I just talked with, with Michael Maliakel, who is the current Aladdin, you know, telly. And, and of course being, as he puts it, you know, a brown boy, he didn't have anybody except Aladdin to look up to when he was a kid and he was, he wanted to sing. So to be able to now be on Broadway as an actual person of this descent and, and model this for other people, like he, to watch him describe the, the amount of passion and satisfaction and just hope that he has being able to show this to other people. Now it was, it's so sweet. It's such a sweet thing to watch him describe this. And Cam can speak to that. You know, that's the thing that when it's the eighth show of the week and you're exhausted and everything hurts, you think about, I know I think about, I think about what, what other little Chinese boy from Brooklyn is in the audience watching me.

And I know Cam is thinking about, I was, I was that little girl watching Karen Ziemba. Like I have told her that too. I've told her that like slightly awkwardly at a party. I was like, I just think you're amazing. Like she knows how I feel. We've never worked together much. We know each other socially. And I'm like, I just, I want to do everything she's ever done. But no, I think about that often.

[25:12] Cameron Adams: I'm going to need a revival of Crazy for You with Cameron Adams as well. Please someone put me in it or contact. I'm ready. Let's do it. Yeah. It's, it's, I teach a lot now. And, uh, actually two students of mine talk about full circle are in, uh, this most recent revival of The Music Man. One of them is actually named Tammy. And I coached her on her Anita sides. And I recently went to go and Kayla Levine. And I, I recently went to go see the show. And when I tell you, I have never felt this way before. The feeling that I had watching these two young women who so belong on the stage and fit right in and are doing the thing and along next to Sutton Foster and Hugh Jackman and all these other incredible Broadway vets that are playing the character roles and the pickle little ladies and the ensemble members. Like I just, I.

[26:18] Cameron Adams: And then to see this show that was my debut, I mean, I just wept through the whole thing. And I mean, obviously, I'm clearly a crier, but I just was so, it was such a, it was such an incredible feeling. I was so moved by that. And, and that's another one of those things. It goes sort of along the same vein. It's just that feeling of like, this is, this is also why we do this. This is also why we do this. We pass it on and we mentor and we, and we educate people. And it's just beautiful. You know,

[26:46] Telly Leung: Ensemble touches on that too, you know, that we talk about this mythology of Broadway. And one of my favorite moments early in the documentary is when Emilio looks at Megan Sikora and Aaron Albano and Cameron Adams as a newcomer to Broadway and goes, you are part of that mythology for me. Like you are part of this lineage that I am so proud to now carry on as a younger generation of Broadway. But of course, as we've sort of seen through the pandemic, how much of that love and passion and our devotion to that mythology and this, how much of that also gets taken advantage of sometimes when the powers that be go, they're going to love it. They'll do anything. They'll do anything for three cents, right?

And that's part of the more difficult conversation of going, here we are, these people who are doing this thing we love with people we love, with people we admire and have respected our entire lives, but we are also professionals at doing this. And how do we, how do we, how do we balance both? Well, it's a, it's a, it's a, you know, ultimately, you know, it's a reminder and we touch on this a lot as well in the film, but it is, we're artists, but it's a business. So, so, you know, we're getting a paycheck and we have 401ks and health insurance and pensions and people in your family get married and you want to go to their wedding and it's okay to go do that and to take a vacation and take the trip to Italy if you can and do drink the wine in Italy and eat the pasta and come back and you just put your skirt on the second hook, the after matinee hook on the skirt.

That's more probably for the, for the women out there who've done periods. Or, or for the women who have a child. It's okay to have a child. Or have a child. And start a family. Have a child, you know, like Megan was a great example of that. Or for the men for that matter, take paternity leave. Or for the men. Yes. And so it's just, it's like, it's, it's, it's a working, it's a, it's a business. So you have to also remind yourself of that. Yes, we are lucky to be doing it because how many people get to do the thing that they love as their job? Very, very few people. I think more and more people are catching on that they want to do that and they're finding opportunities to do that, but it is, it is not, we're not there yet.

You know, we're not, we're not there yet as I like fight to get off personal days for my father's 70th birthday. You know, it's a, it's a fight. Yeah. It is hard, you know, because, because such and such is out and then you understudy such and such and then, or they understudy this person. I'm not saying it's not, I'm not saying anybody's being rude by going, you can't have that day. It's more like logistically when, when there are very few people because they don't hire enough people because it costs a lot of money to hire a lot of people. Then there's a lot of moving parts that go into, you know well, you can't take that personal day because such and such is already out. So it's, it's, you know, it's a tricky thing.

And I'm now, but it's yet again, like I was speaking before about pivoting and figuring out other things. It's easier for me to have clarity about that and what's important to me at this age. And it's this experience, whereas someone who is making their Broadway debut and they're 22 years old or 21 years old, or in our case, a lot of people, we have kids in our show, you know, and, or young adults, 18 year old, 20 year old. And it's harder for them to make that decision or all those kids in music, man, look at all those debuts, which is incredible. 21 debuts in music, man. 21. That's the other thing. We got to remind people that there are lots of new folks out there and they deserve an opportunity. They deserve an opportunity, you know, to put themselves out there.

[30:28] Telly Leung: We're going to take a short break. Stay tuned for more of the episode.

[30:43] Alan Seales: Telly, going back to something you said a little while ago is after, after Flower Drum Song closed, instead of, I think you could have gone in two different directions. And obviously the one you chose was, well, I'm just going to keep going and I'm going to make opportunities for myself. But what was it at that moment? Do you remember that moment where you're like, well, do I just sit back and, and wait for the next thing? Like I'm coming out of Carnegie Mellon where I'm a big star and I get my first show right out of college and I'm amazing. And then all of a sudden it stops. Like it just, boom, you're, you're, it comes to a full halt. And then why not just like curl up in a ball and wait for the next thing?

[31:18] Telly Leung: Well, I, here's the thing. The real honest to God truth is for me, for an actor of, for an Asian actor, a person of color, there are just, this is just a fact, there just aren't as many roles for me or opportunities for me. Or I, or, and, and perhaps back in the early 2000s, there wasn't the kind of imagination to, to sort of have much more color conscious casting. Right? So it's, so I, I, frankly, I couldn't afford, I literally could not afford to sit in a ball and wait for my agent to call for the next opportunity, because if I didn't, and now looking back on it, people go, tell you, you're such a multi-hyphenate artist. You teach and you produce and you direct. And I said, yeah, I did all of those things in order to stay working, in order to stay creative and in order to stay, to keep my creative muscles strong.

It's interesting, Billy Porter, who's, who was a teacher of mine back at Carnegie Mellon. And it's, it's been wonderful to watch his career skyrocket at this point, where he has now, now he has snatched all the trophies, right? He's the Tony and the Emmy and the, he's done all of those things so that now he can be directing films and revivals at City Center and writing scripts and getting them sold. Guess what? He was doing all of those things when he was unemployed and struggling and down to his last dollar as well, because those were other ways for him to stay creative or make money or whatever that is. And now he's just getting the opportunity to actually exercise those things. And it's not about working.

Now it's about the projects he wants to do. And guess what? All of, but all of those years where it was a struggle and he was doing all of those things has now made him so capable now that those opportunities, when that opportunity knobs, he is so ready to accept it. He's fully versed and well-practiced in how to do all of those other things besides being a brilliant performer, which he is.

[33:07] Cameron Adams: Yeah, I am happy to see that so many people, so many Broadway performers took this opportunity, the two-year opportunity of the shutdown to have, to start families, to have children, especially women, because there's so much that you just cannot do as a woman in, biologically as a woman in Broadway, when your body changes and you don't look like the white men want you to look anymore in these specific roles, right? So I love that there are so many babies, there's so many COVID babies in the Broadway world, and it's so, so well-deserved, and everyone's going to grow up together, and that's going to be the next generation of amazingness. But for you coming back, Cam, now with, of course, this is just a different world, and now there's more color-conscious casting, and there's a lot of work being done already in this space in terms of supporting the bodies, supporting bodies, supporting, well, I guess, in terms of pregnancy as well, but then the eight-show schedule is, now more people are being vocal about eight-show schedule, and then a conversation that I think needs to come back that had just started before the pandemic hit that was, I think, sort of pioneered by George Salazar and Casey Levy about the vocal injury conversation. It's okay to take some shows out because your vocal cord just exploded, as in the case of George Salazar during a preview of Be More Chill, right?

[34:44] Telly Leung: Yeah.

[34:44] Cameron Adams: So, I guess, Cam, for you, first, we'll start with you, and then tell you if you have anything to add on to this. Coming back, what have the differences been for you guys, or have you seen any? Is this good or bad? The differences to support you and being told, hey, call-out culture, this is okay now. You need to take some time for yourself. Mental health is a priority. You shouldn't be having panic attacks while on stage. Don't feel the pressure to come in because before, right? And I'll stop talking in a second, I promise. Before, the pressure was, you're sick, power through it. But now, if you're sick, you could take out the entire company because it could be COVID. Yep. Yeah, I'm so for all of it.

And yet again, like I said, I sort of got to a place. It's not easy for me, but if I'm injured, or if my voice is gone, and I can't say the lines, or sing the things, or do the stuff, then I can't go to work because that's my job, is to sing things, and to say lines, and to dance. So, that's the other side of it, the truth, and people don't say this quite as often, which is people are paying a lot of money to come see us do this, and if it's not a quality that it needs to be, it needs to then be the understudy, or the swing, or the standby. And thank God, as someone who's made a career as an understudy, also, you know, people are prepared. When people started going down at Mrs. Doubtfire because of COVID, our understudies and swings, including children, I was so blown away and impressed.

Blown away and impressed. And everybody was on top of it, you know, and ready to go, and there was no first cover or second cover, because guess what? At this point, it's like, everybody got to be ready. But going back to, if you're sick, you're sick. If you hurt your voice, and your job is to sing, look at the opera world. They don't do it like that. They don't. Look at the ballet world. If Tyler Peck is injured, she has to step down, you know? And we have got to be, and I've known Casey a long time, and she's always been vocal about this, and I'm really, really thankful that she is, because she's had her journey and challenges with stuff like that, and she is the type of person who should be speaking up about it.

I don't know George personally, but also for someone like George. So I do think that it's really important, and I think we have to get our head wrapped around that. That also means, and I know it costs a lot of money, and it always comes back around to money, but ultimately we have to hire more swings and understudies and standbys. So that someone, because I think oftentimes what happens is a lead of a show who carries the weight of the show on them, you know, gets injured or sick, and feels like they can't call out because they're letting people down, because maybe the understudy is also sick, or the understudy isn't ready, and then the other person isn't totally up to date, or whatever. Like that causes a huge problem, and it means people don't feel comfortable either taking time for themselves, because emotionally they're wrecked, and can't focus on what they're doing out there.

Because that's the other side of it, is like it is eight shows a week, and you know, that's a lot when you're doing the same thing, and you're trying to keep it fresh. And I mean, it's ultimately a bigger topic, obviously, but like I think as long as people feel comfortable doing it, I feel comfortable doing it, but that's because I've been doing this a long time, and I certainly did not feel comfortable doing it when I started in the beginning. And I know a lot of people who are young who do not feel comfortable doing it, and that's not okay. So we have to keep figuring that out for sure.

[38:37] Telly Leung: I mean, if you look at the history of Broadway, and how, you know, there is that generation, the Chita Rivera generation, the Harvey Evans generation that worked with Jerome Robbins, the Bob Fosse's, the Michael Bennett's, right? But there's also a culture of fear that is in that. You better believe they didn't call out. There's a certain amount of like, I can't, because otherwise I'm expendable, and I'll get fired, right, for doing it. And I think that's in a little bit of Cam and my generation, too, that there's an element of feeling like we, the show must go on. We must, no matter what, show up. I, too, have had a vocal injury that took me out of in transit, like for six weeks. I've recovered from that. And there's also an element of, even though it's not our fault, of shame, of going, oh, I'm out of this.

[39:26] Telly Leung: You know, I think the biggest thing that we learned from this experience is that we are all in this together. The ensemble is such a vital part of the storytelling process, and we often get overlooked.

[39:56] Cameron Adams: Absolutely. And I think that’s why this documentary is so important. It really highlights the stories of these incredible individuals who make up the ensemble.

[40:26] Telly Leung: Right, and it’s not just about the performances; it’s about their lives, their struggles, and their resilience.

[40:56] Cameron Adams: Yes, and the diversity of the ensemble members we featured is something we’re really proud of. Each of them brings a unique perspective and story to the table.

[41:26] Telly Leung: And that diversity is crucial, especially in today’s world. We need to see more representation in all aspects of theatre.

[41:56] Cameron Adams: Definitely. It’s about time we start to diversify the power structures in Broadway and beyond.

[42:24] Telly Leung: And I think that’s what George Takei has done so well throughout his career. He’s paved the way for so many artists and activists.

[42:44] Cameron Adams: Yes, his legacy is a powerful reminder of what can be achieved when you stand up for what you believe in.

[43:14] Telly Leung: And it’s important to take care of ourselves, too. The pressure to perform can be overwhelming, and we need to prioritize our mental and physical health.

[43:22] Cameron Adams: Exactly. The old adage “the show must go on” can sometimes be harmful if we don’t take a step back and recognize our limits.

[43:50] Telly Leung: That’s why we’re so passionate about this documentary. We want people to walk away with a deeper understanding of the ensemble and the challenges they face.

[44:18] Cameron Adams: And hopefully, it inspires others to support the arts and the artists behind the scenes.

[44:48] Telly Leung: Yes, because without the ensemble, the show wouldn’t be the same.

[45:15] Cameron Adams: And we want to celebrate their contributions and stories.

[45:30] Telly Leung: It’s about time we shine a light on the ensemble members and their experiences.

[45:55] Cameron Adams: Absolutely. And I think this documentary does just that.

[46:24] Telly Leung: We really hope that audiences connect with the stories and see the humanity behind the performances.

[46:34] Cameron Adams: Yes, it’s all about connection and understanding.

[46:59] Telly Leung: And we’re excited for people to finally see it.

[47:09] Cameron Adams: Me too! It’s been a long journey, but we’re proud of what we’ve created.

[47:36] Telly Leung: And we hope it opens up conversations about the importance of ensemble members in theatre.

[47:56] Cameron Adams: Yes, and we want to encourage everyone to support their local theatre communities.

[48:21] Telly Leung: Because every artist, no matter their role, deserves recognition and respect.

[48:41] Cameron Adams: Exactly. And we’re all in this together, supporting one another.

[49:11] Telly Leung: That’s the beauty of the theatre community.

[49:35] Cameron Adams: Yes, and we hope this documentary helps to strengthen those bonds.

[50:01] Telly Leung: We’re excited for what’s next and to continue advocating for the ensemble.

[50:21] Cameron Adams: Absolutely. It’s just the beginning for us.

[50:51] Telly Leung: And we’re grateful for the opportunity to share these stories.

[51:16] Cameron Adams: Yes, thank you for having us and for supporting our work.

[51:46] Telly Leung: We appreciate it!

[51:56] Cameron Adams: Thank you!

[52:21] Telly Leung: We hope everyone enjoys the documentary!