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[0:01] Alan Seales: Here you go. One, two, three.

[0:08] Alan Seales: Welcome to The Theatre Podcast. Intimate personal conversations with theatre's biggest talents. I am your host, Alan Seales, and that is New York background noise. I'm currently sitting in the dressing room with the smart, funny, amazing Triple Threat. Got her start on SYTYCD in Dance Season 6. You may know her from Broadway shows such as Bring It On, Hamilton, A Bronx Tale. Currently starring as Disco Donna in the Donna Summer musical. Ariana DeBose.

[0:42] Ariana DeBose: That's my name.

[0:43] Alan Seales: How are you doing?

[0:44] Ariana DeBose: I'm good.

[0:45] Alan Seales: This is like a living room inside your dressing room.

[0:48] Ariana DeBose: It is. I call it my sitting room. And it's where I receive my guests after the show.

[0:55] Alan Seales: It's nice. I always wanted one of these. You know what I mean? When you first get a Broadway show and whoever's starring in said show, you go into that dressing room. It's very chic. And you realize, oh wow, when you're a star, you have a place to sit down. Like a couch with nice things around it. So this is very fun.

[1:17] Ariana DeBose: This is beautiful. Do you decorate it?

[1:19] Alan Seales: I did not. Does it come decorated like this?

[1:21] Ariana DeBose: No.

[1:23] Ariana DeBose: Good Sir Mike Harrison, the interior designer, designed this for me. If you check him out on his Instagram, he basically does this as a fashion project.

[1:37] Alan Seales: You're serious?

[1:38] Ariana DeBose: Yeah, I'm serious. There's somebody who does this. Broadway star dressing room.

[1:41] Alan Seales: Yeah. He specialized it.

[1:42] Ariana DeBose: He worked with Laura Osnes. He'll also design your home as well. But pretty much any star on Broadway in the last three years or so, he's done their dressing room.

[1:54] Alan Seales: It's pretty great. He's got a good thing going.

[1:57] Ariana DeBose: I had no idea. That's incredible.

[1:59] Alan Seales: This orchid needs some attention over here, though.

[2:01] Ariana DeBose: Oh, it's dead. It's fine. Let's get into the reason people are listening.

[2:07] Alan Seales: Of course, from North Carolina, I want to get into your childhood, who you are, where did you come from? What kind of kid were you?

[2:12] Ariana DeBose: Not Raleigh. Are you from Raleigh?

[2:17] Ariana DeBose: I was born in Wilmington, North Carolina. I lived with my grandmother and my mom at the time. My mom was in college or finishing up her degree when I came along. My grandmother was very involved in raising me in my formative years. Then my mom graduated and got her first job teaching. She's a public school teacher in New Bern, North Carolina.

[2:38] Alan Seales: New Bern.

[2:39] Ariana DeBose: Yeah. They need some love right about now. A lot of hurricane devastation going on down there.

[2:46] Ariana DeBose: I went to elementary school in New Bern. Then my mom got a better job in Raleigh. That's when I moved to Raleigh.

[2:56] Alan Seales: What kind of child were you? How did you get into performing?

[2:58] Ariana DeBose: I was very outgoing. Apparently, I came out of the womb kicking and moving and wiggling. She's either a soccer player or a dancer. I think it was my grandmother's idea to put me in dance. I started with ballet, tap, jazz. I was very curious and clearly very competitive from the jump. I liked being good at things. I do remember that very strategically. But I loved being social. I liked spending time with people I didn't know. I loved going to playgrounds. I was that kid. I liked playing with sticks or swinging on the jungle gym or whatnot. I was very athletic. Along with being outgoing and very cute. I was the ivory baby, actually. Like ivory soap. They used to have the actual ivory baby. If I'm correct, I think I was the last ivory baby that they ever crowned.

Which was kind of cool. That was back in, what, 93? 92 or 93. I was a biracial baby that was the poster child for this soap company. That was before Brown was in. You know what I'm saying? So that was kind of cool. But I was an outgoing, sunny disposition type of child.

[4:21] Alan Seales: I noticed at one point you said you were an award-winning competitive dancer by 13?

[4:27] Ariana DeBose: Yeah, I was. I trained at a competitive dance studio, CCN Comedy Dance Complex. I was really lucky and fortunate that they brought in guest choreographers each season to work with us. It wasn't just a summer intensive. We had the benefit of working with them all year round whenever they were available. So a lot of those names that you see on So You Think You Can Dance or within the first seven seasons or so, those names I had already worked with because they were in my hometown.

[4:56] Alan Seales: No kidding.

[4:57] Ariana DeBose: It was awesome. It was awesome training. And I took ballet three times a week from age 11 until I graduated high school. So I had very sound technique, but I was trained to be versatile in a lot of different genres. I could do hip hop. I could do lyrical hip hop. I could just give you straight jazz. I could turn around and give you contemporary or distinguish between contemporary and lyrical. What is the difference? Does anyone know? Or theater. Theater dance. So that was how that went. I ran the circuit. Stockwest International Dance Competition. Star Power. West Coast Dance Explosion. New York City Dance Alliance. I ran the gamut in that way.

[5:46] Alan Seales: Then where did the singing come in?

[5:49] Ariana DeBose: That's funny. I participated in high school theater. That's when I discovered I couldn't hold a tune. They cast me in Fame.

[6:00] Alan Seales: No kidding.

[6:01] Ariana DeBose: Yeah. That was my first musical. I was Carmen, and I was flat as a pancake for most of it. But I really liked it because it was hard. It didn't come easy to me. As I said, I'm competitive, but I like a challenge. I don't like it to be too easy. So I stuck with it. And then the next thing I did was that summer I was cast as Aida in Aida. And it was an all-county production of the show. So I wasn't just working with kids from my school. I was working with kids from all over my county, which was awesome. Because we had several different public schools, but we had an arts magnet school. So we were all thrown in together. And there was no distinguishment of, like, well, you're better because you go to the arts school.

And I'm less because I'm just in regular school. So that was awesome to play a lead role. And I was going into my sophomore year at the time, and I didn't know what I was doing. So it was me, Heather Headley, and what's his name? Oh, no, this is bad. Who played Radames originally? Oh, come on. See, you're bad theater people too. You don't know either. Anyways, but really it was me, Heather Headley, and the cast recording. And I was trying to learn how to sing. So thank you. Someone Google it. Someone Google it. Get back to me. We'll have to do, like, a fact check at the end of this. Please do a fact check. Make sure my facts about myself are right. Good luck with that.

[7:30] Alan Seales: So after high school, what was that?

[7:30] Ariana DeBose: Well, I auditioned for So You Think You Can Dance while I was still in high school. I was getting ready to take my finals of senior year. And I asked my mom if me and my friend could go down to Georgia so I could audition. And she was like, that's a terrible idea. You have finals next week. What happens when you get the show? I was like, well, I don't know. We don't know if I'm going to get it. I just want to try. So I went, and I ended up making it to the Vegas week round. And by that fall, I had accepted a spot at Western Carolina University in their BFA musical theater program. And I chose to take a semester off and compete in the show. So I did that and went back to school in the spring semester, which was very short-lived.

Because at that point, I was like, well, that was a basically professional experience. In my mind, it was. I ended up getting paid by the end of it to do it. So I was like, well, I can work. See? Fox told me I could work. I could work. So I stayed in school for three months. And I wasn't happy. I'd gone through a bit of depression. I was terribly skinny. God. And I was like, you know what? This is for the birds. I'm not doing well. I know I can dance. I believe in myself. Go try. And the day I got here, I booked a job.

[9:05] Alan Seales: Which one?

[9:05] Ariana DeBose: I got a job dancing on One Life to Live in their Star-Crossed Lovers series.

[9:10] Alan Seales: Oh, that's cute. And everybody wanted a Glee version of something, something. So I was a dancing high schooler. It was great.

[9:13] Alan Seales: But did you take your high school finals?

[9:14] Ariana DeBose: I did.

[9:15] Alan Seales: Good.

[9:16] Ariana DeBose: And I passed them.

[9:17] Alan Seales: Good.

[9:18] Ariana DeBose: I had like a 4.2 GPA. I was smart. I'm still smart.

[9:21] Alan Seales: I was like, was?

[9:22] Ariana DeBose: Yeah. You're still a smart cookie. It's funny. I think there's a big, just quickly, I think there's a stigma on folks who don't go to college for what it is that they do. And I totally don't agree with that, because I don't think college is for everybody. Granted, I do think that college and higher education is very important, and a lot of people need that, especially if you're coming into the arts. Like, don't come here if you don't have a very strong sense of self and a buttload of cash, because it's hard. And the rejection on top of feeling like you're struggling or whatnot, it will only get harder after that. What is it? If you work to live, you're not going to work to work?

[10:03] Alan Seales: Yeah.

[10:04] Ariana DeBose: Yeah, whatever that's saying.

[10:05] Alan Seales: Yeah.

[10:06] Ariana DeBose: It's something like that. And then bring it on, Broadway debut in 2012.

[10:10] Alan Seales: Yeah, that was quick.

[10:12] Ariana DeBose: Yeah, that was very quick. And I guess you were still young at this point. Did you understand, did you realize the gravitas of what you had just stepped into?

[10:22] Ariana DeBose: I think I knew the show was going to be special. I had three job offers on the table at one time that included Bring It On, and I chose to do that show because it meant I was creating something, something new that had never been done with someone I deeply respected, Angie Blankenbuehler, and Lin-Manuel and Tom Kitt. And I knew this team, and I knew that they were the upcoming stars and leaders of the industry I wanted to work in. So when we were doing the developmental workshop, did I understand the gravitas? No. But when I got here…

[10:59] Ariana DeBose: And to be honest, Judith Light showed up to a preview of our show and then tweeted about Lynn and mentioned me as like, you know, a great talent in this show. I was like, wait a second. Oh, anybody can come see you at any time. You know, like you're standing on a Broadway stage at the St. James Theatre, like the history of the St. James Theatre, like you're a part of that legacy now. It was the first time I'd really had the opportunity to understand and believe that I was a part of a legacy. And it was the first time you begin to understand what that word means. It's a very special moment. And then next year is Motown.

[11:43] Alan Seales: Yeah.

[11:44] Ariana DeBose: Wonderful show. And was that, I mean, the music and playing Diana Ross, you actually got to go in as Diana Ross. Was that role something that meant something special to you compared to the other ones?

[12:01] Ariana DeBose: You know, at the time, to be perfectly honest, when I booked that show, I knew we had an end date for bringing on and I wanted to keep working. You know, I was definitely in that age-old headspace as an actor of like, I'm never going to work again. And then I was lucky enough to find another team that very quickly said, no, we would like you to come work with us. And I started that show five days after bringing on closed. And to be perfectly honest, I grew up on their music. My grandmother and I would drive down, you know, 421. And I live off 421.

[12:41] Alan Seales: You used to.

[12:42] Ariana DeBose: Yeah. So, you know, it's a long stretch of road. That's right. So we'd drive down a highway listening to the Shirelles and the Supremes and the music of the 60s and the Beatles. So I knew the music and part of me wanted to do it for her because it gave me a little bit of home. And then all of the other experiences and the knowledge that I gained from doing the show and really getting into the psyche of what it felt like for these women to be ahead of their time and to make a space for people where there hadn't been a space before. That was really valuable to me. Not just specifically playing Diana Ross. I mean, those are very large robes to wear and heavy and pretty, but heavy. And I was 21. I was still 21 when I started that job. I was the youngest member of the company at the time, save the little boys. But of the adult company. So I did feel some pressure and I will say I was not always taken seriously in that building by my castmates.

[13:45] Alan Seales: Really?

[13:46] Ariana DeBose: Yes, I was beautifully underestimated. But I will. I think that that's the best place to be. I'd rather you underestimate me because I will always prove you wrong.

[13:54] Alan Seales: Outshine.

[13:55] Ariana DeBose: Yeah. Outshine the expectations. Because they're false, you know, and most people underestimating you is really about them. But if you remember, it's like, I'm not there for you. I'm here for the job. I'm here for the work. I'm here for this story. I'm here to do my job and to grow. So I think that's where I really learned that that's what I was made of, that I did have the ability to go, wow, I can work with these people, many of whom I love and adore and respect immensely. And we're not always going to see eye to eye and they are not always going to like me because my job is to keep that curtain up. And the show must go on. And I'm sorry if you don't happen to like it, that I'm the person who has to do it. But it is my job. And it's why I make my paycheck. So it's fascinating. But you know, be young, scrappy and hungry. Namaste.

[14:51] Alan Seales: Speaking of young, scrappy and hungry, of course, Pippin, 2014. I'm skipping over so many notes here because there's so much to talk about. This little thing called Hamilton, a couple people have heard of it.

[15:06] Ariana DeBose: And you were the bullet.

[15:07] Alan Seales: Yeah.

[15:08] Ariana DeBose: Which was amazing. And for, I was going to say for some reason, but I don't, I guess it was such a unique role. You got so much attention just for being a bullet.

[15:19] Ariana DeBose: It was cool. I mean, I think the idea that an inanimate object can be personified by a woman, by a woman of color. I think that was just another element of what made Hamilton great. You know, the storytelling was outside of the box, the way they used the text and the lyric and, you know, bringing rap to Broadway and making that genre even more relevant than it already was. I think the idea of the bullet was kind of that little extra cherry on top, you know, you got women's empowerment with the Schuyler sisters and that was just another like, yeah, and that girl too. Wait a second. Wow. You know, and I totally give credit to Andy for that idea and, you know, for giving me the opportunity to do that. But a little known fact, I actually came up with that hashtag.

[16:22] Alan Seales: Really?

[16:23] Ariana DeBose: That was me.

[16:24] Alan Seales: Wow.

[16:25] Ariana DeBose: Things you learn.

[16:27] Alan Seales: Things you learn.

[16:28] Ariana DeBose: And it was fun because it just helped. I like connecting with the fans and it was one way that I could connect with them as an individual within the group. And we had so many amazing, wonderful, crazy, talented people in that group that was amazing. I mean, the cast now I saw with the original cast and of course, yeah, went in with no expectations blew me away. Of course, I saw you twice years and years and years ago, well, not years and years. It's only been a few. But time flies, though. I mean, what was it like being part of that, that that changed theater in a way that will, that I guess we'll never recover from in a good way, in a good way.

[17:12] Ariana DeBose: Being on the inside of it was fascinating. And you know, I recently ran into Leslie and Renee, we were on a meeting and, you know, people ask that question all the time, no matter where we are. And it's hard to find an answer because when you're in it and it's happening to you, you're just doing your best to take it all in and value it for what it's worth. It was a whirlwind. It was a tornado. It was a hurricane. There was an eye. There were gusts of wind. There was like, you know, a house didn't fall on anybody's head by any stretch of the mind. But, you know, it was a lot. And it's something that I don't think we'll find any other words besides extraordinary for until like a decade down the line.

It's changed everything for all of us. I think the show opened doors for each and every single one of us that might not have been opened had we not done the show. I certainly believe that it has provided me with a great opportunity to continue to grow. You know, and it's certainly a very good talking point.

[18:27] Alan Seales: Wonderful. Wonderful. Then Bronx Tale.

[18:30] Ariana DeBose: So I handled it with 2015, Bronx Tale 2016 with my buddy Michael Bera.

[18:36] Alan Seales: Yeah.

[18:37] Ariana DeBose: I love that guy. He's a special one. Canolis.

[18:41] Alan Seales: And now, of course, Summer, one of the Donna Summers and Tony nomination for this role. Congratulations. And how has your life changed since that point?

[18:57] Ariana DeBose: That's been recent. Yeah, I think I'm just now coming down off of the cloud and trying to, you know, adult and normalize again. You know, find your routine and just get back to the bones of being an actor. You know, that's all I really ever wanted. It's like, yes, I came into the industry as a dancer, but I just really wanted to be an actor and I wanted to be taken seriously as an actor. So that nomination was important to me because I was nominated as best featured actress, not best featured dancer in a musical. The word actor was really important to me. You know, I think there's a whole different set of challenges and blessings when you continue to move up in your industry. I love my show.

I love this job. I do. Oh man, I don't know if I'll ever really get another one that is tailored like this. I certainly hope to. I hope to continue to create and originate work. But this one really was tailored around me. And that's not, you know, that's not too far away for me in my brain. But I also know that once you enter this echelon, you know, you have to face the realities like when you're doing principal work, you might not work as often, especially when you're a woman of color. And, you know, I think there are a lot of shows that are being produced now that provide bigger roles and featured like wonderfully arched featured parts and leading roles for women of color in particular. There's still few and far between, however, and everybody wants a job.

So I'm lucky to be to have my name included in what is what I consider to be a short list because I wish there were more names on the list, to be perfectly honest, even though it means a little more competitive, like, I'd love to see more names on that list. But I'm certainly glad to be there. And it just makes it makes me have to up my game. It's like this is actually not the time to coast. I don't get to just sit down and be like, I did it. Yeah. That was about a month ago, but yay part. Now I'm back into, okay, you got to keep training. Not only do you have to be excellent at the job that you currently have and that you the role that you were nominated for, but you have to go out there and continue to build new skills.

[21:32] Alan Seales: What do you do to train?

[21:33] Ariana DeBose: Oh, well, I take acting classes. I do. I typically like a roll through monthly, you know what I mean? If I can't try to go twice a week, or twice, twice a month, at least just to, you know, stay on your feet. I like classes that like, hey, here's your side for the day, you have a four-hour session. And then at some point during the day, after you've watched and taken...

[22:58] Ariana DeBose: You know, I think that the most important thing about being a part of something like "The Prom" or "Summer: The Donna Summer Musical" or even "Hamilton" is the legacy that we leave behind. It's about the stories we tell and how they resonate with people.

[23:28] Ariana DeBose: Each of these shows has a unique message and a different way of connecting with the audience. "Hamilton," for instance, was revolutionary in how it brought diverse voices to the forefront of musical theatre. It changed the landscape and opened doors for so many artists.

[23:58] Ariana DeBose: Then you have "Summer," which celebrates the life and legacy of Donna Summer, a true icon. It’s about honoring her contributions to music and culture while also showcasing the incredible talent of the cast.

[24:28] Ariana DeBose: And "The Prom" is such a heartfelt story about acceptance and love. It’s important to me that we continue to tell these stories that reflect the world we live in and push for inclusivity.

[24:58] Ariana DeBose: I think about my journey and how it all started with competitive dancing. That foundation has shaped who I am as a performer. Being on "So You Think You Can Dance" was a pivotal moment for me, and it led me to New York, where I landed my first job on my very first day in the city.

[25:28] Ariana DeBose: It’s wild to think about how everything has unfolded since then. Each opportunity has built upon the last, and I’m grateful for the experiences that have come my way.

[25:58] Ariana DeBose: I also feel a strong sense of responsibility to represent my community and to be a voice for those who may not have one. It’s essential to keep moving forward and not get too comfortable, even when success comes knocking.

[26:12] Ariana DeBose: Pride and sexuality are also significant themes in my life and work. I believe in the importance of being true to oneself and celebrating who we are, no matter what that looks like.

[26:13] Ariana DeBose: It’s about embracing our identities and using our platforms to uplift others. I want to inspire the next generation of artists to pursue their dreams unapologetically.

[26:43] Ariana DeBose: The theatre community has always been a space for expression and acceptance, and I’m proud to be a part of it. We have the power to create change through our art.

[27:13] Ariana DeBose: I think that’s what makes this industry so special. We have the ability to tell stories that matter and to connect with people on a deeper level.

[27:43] Ariana DeBose: As I continue on this journey, I’m excited to see where it takes me. I want to keep pushing boundaries and exploring new avenues of creativity.

[28:13] Ariana DeBose: Ultimately, it’s about leaving a legacy that inspires others to dream big and to believe in themselves. That’s what I hope to achieve through my work.

[28:43] Ariana DeBose: I’m grateful for the opportunities I’ve had, and I look forward to what’s next. There’s so much more to explore and share with the world.

[29:09] Ariana DeBose: Thank you for having me on the podcast. It’s been a pleasure to share my journey and thoughts with you.

[29:39] Ariana DeBose: I hope that listeners feel inspired to pursue their passions and to never give up on their dreams.

[29:51] Ariana DeBose: Remember, it’s all about the journey and the impact we can make along the way.

[29:59] Ariana DeBose: Let’s keep the conversation going and continue to uplift each other in this beautiful community.

[30:14] Ariana DeBose: Thank you again for this opportunity. I can’t wait to see what the future holds!

[30:44] Ariana DeBose: And to everyone out there, keep shining your light and sharing your gifts with the world.

[30:59] Ariana DeBose: Together, we can create a more inclusive and vibrant theatre landscape.

[31:29] Ariana DeBose: Let’s make magic happen!

[31:59] Ariana DeBose: Thank you!