This transcript was automatically generated and might contain errors.

[0:00] Alan Seales: Welcome to The Theatre Podcast, intimate personal conversations with theatre's biggest names.

[0:11] Alan Seales: I'm Alan Seales, and this is a very special episode because it's the very first episode of March 2019. And March 2019 is the Frozen takeover month. Frozen the musical has taken over my social. They're going to do some Instagram takeovers. At least four of the episodes released this month will all feature guests from Frozen the musical. And we'll have a couple of giveaways. We'll have the, of course, Instagram takeovers, maybe even a little bit more. So if you're hearing this and you haven't yet started following the podcast on Instagram, please do so now so you don't miss anything at theatre underscore podcast, both on Instagram and Twitter. And then if you need to head over to Facebook, it is slash official theatre podcast.

[0:59] Alan Seales: This episode here is with Joe Carroll, who just took over the role of Hans in Frozen. And actually, I don't know why. And in hindsight, this seems pretty, pretty obvious. But when he said this in the interview, it surprised me. One of the most things he surprised me out of everything he said was that, you know, Hans is basically two characters in Act One versus Act Two. Act One is this guy who's coming in and love is an open door, this iconic song. He's really in love with Anna and are really smitten with her, at least. And then Act Two, Act Two is the bad guy. He turns into this guy that we want to loathe. And it was actually, actually made me laugh when he said this, too, that his curtain call, he's been in the show at the time we recorded it, the time we recorded the episode.

He had been in the show for just a week, and he's already getting booed during curtain call in a good way. The kids boo him because they, you know, they hate Hans by the end of it. It's just funny. You know, these smaller individuals come to see the show, and it's so real to them. So during curtain call, he gets booed and somehow that's enjoyable. Also, I've witnessed a lot of struggle from actors coming out of other schools that don't have the business knowledge or guidance to land their first agents or jobs or what have you. But Joe's story is actually quite incredible. He seems like he was very focused, very smart, and he made the connections necessary to make it through University of Michigan, but he made it straight out of college into New York and very quickly got an agent, landed the first role in Once the Musical, and kind of the rest is history. So this guy plays ten instruments. He's super talented. He's super smart. Please enjoy this episode here with Joe Carroll.

[3:02] Alan Seales: Made his Broadway debut in 2012 in Once the Musical, following that with the 2013 production of Romeo and Juliet with Orlando Bloom, and then went on to replace Santino Fontana in the 2014 production of Cinderella. He was recently in Bandstand, the Boston production of Moulin Rouge, and just now started in the role of Hans in Frozen. Disney Frozen, star of stage and screen, Joe Carroll. Welcome to the podcast.

[3:26] Joe Carroll: Thank you very much.

[3:27] Alan Seales: How are you doing on this wonderfully snowy, cold morning?

[3:31] Joe Carroll: Yeah, it's snowy and cold. But yeah, things are good. I'm about, I was just saying I'm sick of wearing scarves and hats. I'm about ready for spring. I was saying on the way up here, I get translucently pale this time of year. So I'm about ready to just have the sun come out.

[3:47] Alan Seales: Are you a beach guy?

[3:50] Joe Carroll: You know, yeah. I feel like there are beaches all around New York City that you never go to. I don't know. We went to the Rockaways one time. Went to Jersey Shore a couple times. I'm just ready to be in Central Park. I love to play Central Park softball or go running. I just do anything outside.

[4:05] Alan Seales: Well, you're an athletic guy too, right? You come from Michigan. What part of Michigan did you grow up in?

[4:12] Joe Carroll: Well, I moved around a lot as a kid, actually. Grew up for 10 years in a suburb of Chicago, Geneva, Illinois, and then moved to Michigan for high school and college. And my parents are still in Michigan. They live in Grand Rapids, so west side of the state. And my dad makes labels and my mom is a caterer. She's a chef. And I somehow ended up on Broadway.

[4:36] Alan Seales: We'll get to that. But first off, can you cook?

[4:38] Joe Carroll: I can cook. I'm all right in the kitchen. That was kind of a prerequisite. My sister and I, we know our way around a grill and a cast iron. We can julienne a pepper and stuff like that.

[4:52] Alan Seales: I wish my parents had done more of that with me. I want to go home and cook for my kids now, but I'm just like, okay, spaghettios. Here you go. And then real people who know how to cook, they're like, oh, that's so easy. You just put in the things and the things. And I'm like, that requires advanced planning and training that I don't have. But yeah, I want to matrix that knowledge out of you and just jack it in the back. Be a great cook.

[5:18] Joe Carroll: But yeah, so we got there because you moved to Michigan. Big hockey fan, right? You played a lot of hockey.

[5:24] Joe Carroll: I played hockey growing up. I played a bunch of sports growing up, but hockey was the big one. I was from about four or five years old. I played competitive ice hockey and sort of always did shows and things as well. I've been doing musicals since I was in the third grade. But I was an athlete. I played baseball. I was a horrible basketball player, but I liked basketball. But hockey was the big one. And then as we were sort of talking about just before we got started, I got hurt when I was going into freshman year of high school. I got pretty nasty. I broke two vertebrae in my back playing hockey. It was pretty nasty. But I think sort of, and this is a bigger thing, I then got more into musical theater and theater in the arts because I was sitting around in a back brace.

So I picked up the guitar and I went back and I played hockey all through high school, but never really took it to the next level. And then musical theater just slowly started to take over as it does throughout high school. And I started quitting all the sports to focus on this stuff. But I still have a buddy who I played with in high school who's on the Red Wings, which is very cool. So Luke Glendening, number 41 on the Red Wings, we played together in high school. And yeah, but that was kind of the hockey background. And it's fun actually in Frozen because Bobby Creighton, who plays Weaseltown, Wesselton, is a huge hockey fan. And so I'll show up in the dressing room and he's got the Maple Leafs on his computer.

And so he's like watching the Maple Leafs on his computer. I'm watching the Red Wings on my computer and we're just talking hockey. Oh, we have to go on stage now. But it's been really fun. I share a dressing room with Bobby and Kevin, who plays Oaken. And it's a really fun dressing room. Yeah. Very, very sports oriented.

[7:25] Alan Seales: The only hockey team I ever followed was the Maple Leafs, but only because I have family in Toronto. So my family was not a sports family or a cooking family. But my family was good, I promise.

[7:40] Joe Carroll: You said when you broke your back, that's when you picked up the guitar, or picked up the guitar more. Is that when you first started to learn it? Because you play, how many instruments do you play, first off?

[7:48] Joe Carroll: Yeah. I play, I guess it's 10-ish. The harmonica is an instrument. I play it poorly. Things like that, I kind of picked up. But I started as a drummer and that was why Bandstand was so thrilling for me, because I was a drummer since I was in diapers. I crawled up on my uncle's drum set and banged around when I was literally there, pictures of me as a baby. So I always did that. Then I had to take piano lessons because mom said you had to take piano lessons. And then I picked up a guitar in middle school and really started to play more and more, I think, as I was kind of sitting around injured and taking that more seriously because there's only so much you could do, I guess, when you're sort of casted up after an injury.

And then from that, I learned how to play the mandolin because of Once. I played the ukulele because of Once when I made my Broadway debut and I had to learn how to play some of these instruments. But I had kind of the working knowledge to play a little bit of bass and play a little bit of melodica and things like that.

[8:58] Joe Carroll: But yeah, that was the coolest part of Bandstand was just bringing the drums back into the fray because there was the song Banging on a Trash Can, the Doug funny, Doug the cartoon sort of thing. And all I want to do is bang on the drums all day. That was kind of me as a kid.

[9:15] Alan Seales: Right.

[9:15] Joe Carroll: I wanted to be a drummer. I mean, I wanted to be a rock and roll drummer as long as I could remember. And then again, musical theater takes over. And no, you can either be in the choir in high school or you can be in the band. You can't be in both. So I decided to be in the choir. You start singing. You do the musical. Next thing you know, you're trying to go to college for it and your parents are freaking out and it comes out in a wash that I'm able to pay my bills.

[9:43] Alan Seales: Right. What was your first musical in high school? Do you remember?

[9:48] Joe Carroll: Hello, Dolly.

[9:49] Alan Seales: Really?

[9:49] Joe Carroll: Hello, Dolly. Yeah. I was Barnaby in Hello, Dolly. I can get you some pictures of that, probably. But it was great. And the kid, Johnny Stellard, played Cornelius. He was two years older than me. He went to Elon for musical theater. He was in Evita on Broadway. He's done a number of Broadway shows. And he and my other friend, Mikey Winslow, who also went to my high school, he's currently in Hamilton. He just took over as a swing in Hamilton. Those two guys were my high school idols who paved the way and said that you can go to college for musical theater. You can major in this. It's a career. And they really paved the way for me as a kid in the Midwest. I want to be on Broadway. Where do you start?

And I had a couple of great role models with those two. So it was Hello, Dolly. Sophomore year, we did Beauty and the Beast. Junior year, we did Fiddler on the Roof. And that was the least Jewish production of Fiddler on the Roof that there's ever been in West Michigan. And then senior year, we did On the Town. I had a great high school, a great background. We did great shows. And there was a fair number of people who made it to New York and are doing the thing.

[11:13] Alan Seales: And you went to UM, University of Michigan. And did you major in theater there or music?

[11:18] Joe Carroll: Musical theater, yeah. I got a Bachelor's of Fine Arts in musical theater. And that was an incredibly lucky and remarkable experience to get in there. It's extremely competitive. And I live in Michigan. And so my parents were thrilled about a little in-state tuition, never hurt anybody. And I actually get a lot of flack for that from my classmates, because I was one of the two kids in my class from the state of Michigan. And a lot of people are still paying off some student loans to pursue their Broadway dreams. And I got out luckily. But Rachel Hoffman, who cast Frozen, is a Michigan grad. Ashley Blanchett. There's in our show right now Ben Bogan, Jeremy Davis. I think there's a couple more.

But we got a decent Michigan contingent in Frozen. It's interesting that what you're involved with is what you notice, you pay attention. You buy a Volvo, and then you see all the other Volvos on the street. I'm from North Carolina, and I feel like I had a string of people I'd talked to that were all from North Carolina. Beth Lovell and I were chatting and passing the podcast. She's from Raleigh, where I went to college. It was just one after another of people. But that's funny. I love that.

[12:36] Joe Carroll: She is a riot.

[12:38] Alan Seales: Oh gosh, yeah. Amazing.

[12:41] Joe Carroll: Yeah, she had us in stitches all the time during the whole Bandstand process. She's a Broadway legend. Such a gem.

[12:49] Alan Seales: Yeah, she's amazing. Well, back to you. That's who we're talking to today.

[12:52] Joe Carroll: Back to me. The thing about me is...

[12:54] Alan Seales: Let's think about you. You mentioned instruments all along the way here, but you did choir and whatnot. When did you realize that singing was part of your repertoire?

[13:05] Joe Carroll: Yeah. Like I said, I was doing the musicals all through middle school. The story goes, my mom didn't want to get a babysitter. She was asked by a local community theater in Chicago, where I was in middle school growing up at the time, to be in the adult ensemble of the community musical at my school, which was Annie. They needed nuns in the NYC scene, and they needed some older actors. And she has a beautiful singing voice. And so she goes to rehearsal. She's singing in the background, in the chorus of Annie. And she'd bring me to rehearsal, and I'd sit there. And I was completely enthralled, and the director saw that I would just kind of sit there. And other kids are running around, wreaking havoc or whatever, and I would just sit and watch. And so she asked if I wanted...

[14:55] Joe Carroll: I had a solo freshman, first semester freshman year in the freshman choir or whatever. And I sang this solo. And since we all have ridiculous egos, everybody was like, you're so good. And then I was like, oh, maybe I can sing. Maybe this is something I like to do. And that was really the beat. That was when it really just all hell broke loose. And I started singing and taking voice lessons seriously. And then, like I said, just quit everything. Quit the sports, quit this, quit that. And focused on singing, more voice lessons, more dance classes, more acting stuff. And that was really when it all started. Freshman year of high school was really the beginning. And we moved from Chicago to Michigan.

And I always say that that was the best worst thing that ever happened because I really feel like if I didn't have that arts community at my high school, that was really, yes, you can do this. Yes, you are good enough. Yes, you can make this a career. I don't think I would have done it.

[15:56] Alan Seales: And you had dancing classes in there too, you said.

[15:59] Joe Carroll: Yeah. I had the choreographer in high school who was like, if you want to do musical theater, you got to learn how to dance. And my first dance class I ever took was, the very first one was like a summer dance intensive thing. And I didn't make it through the warm up. We were doing a jazz class and the warm up was so intense. I was sweating profusely. I thought I was going to hyperventilate. And I left. I left afterwards and just walked home. And I got home and my mom was like, what are you doing here? You're supposed to be in the dance class. I was like, I can't do it. I can't do it. It was so hard. And then she's like, yes, yes, you can. So I went back and went back like 14 levels and started taking dance class with like 10-year-olds. And I took a tap class with a bunch of nine-year-old girls and I was 16 or something. So nothing will humble you like taking a dance class with a bunch of nine-year-olds.

[16:51] Joe Carroll: And they were tapping circles all around you.

[16:53] Joe Carroll: Just tapping circles around me. Still, I'm a horrible tap dancer. But then I got a couple of great dance teachers in high school who took me aside and helped me and slowly, this is how we do this. But the greatest gift I had was taking partnering class. So it was this ballet company that Johnny Stellard and Mikey Winslow, these guys, danced with. And there was a partnering class once a week. And so I learned how to partner girls and pick them up and put them down. And that was the greatest gift because then I moved to New York. I then danced all through college and tried to keep my skills up. But I moved to New York and I've now gotten Cinderella was a huge break for me. But I remember really kind of booking that job, I think, because of my partnering ability.

I went into the dance call and I could see the choreographer and these people are like, okay, I don't know how this is going to go. We don't know this guy. And I could partner. And so I tell guys who are trying to go into musical theater in particular, learn how to partner. Learn how to pick women up and put them down safely. Because that's a huge advantage.

[18:01] Alan Seales: I like how you have the caveat, safely. Don't just drop them.

[18:05] Joe Carroll: Yeah, exactly. Exactly. So that was through high school. But the dancing, I worked extremely hard at that from junior year of high school through college and have not been asked to do it as intensely as I thought I was going to in my professional world. But it's been a lot of partnering. I mean, Frozen is no example. I mean, I'm picking Patti Murin up and setting her down safely, as safely as possible. And so far, so good.

[18:34] Alan Seales: So you moved to New York in 2012, right? What was the story of saying, all right, I'm graduating. Now's the time. Yeah, here we go.

[18:47] Joe Carroll: It was always the dream, always the goal. And Michigan was fantastic about that. They really help you to move to New York and they give you a community of graduates and lists of alumni and casting directors. And we had a great showcase in New York where I found an agent. And they really made that transition as smooth as it could be. And my parents were super supportive. I feel super lucky to have them because never once did they question this career choice to me. I'm sure they would close the bedroom door and be like, oh my God, we're never going to be able to retire because we're going to have to pay for our artist's son in New York. But they never, ever batted an eye to me. They were super supportive always.

And so I had a little graduation money and I worked and I moved to New York with like, I think I had 2000 bucks and I was like, oh, that'll be great. I'll be able to live for like two months, like two and a half months. I'll just audition. And that money was gone in the first like three weeks. I paid my union dues, my rent, and it was like, oh my God, I have no money left. But it was a crazy transition because right at that time, you know, preparation meeting opportunity, I played all these instruments and once had won the Tony and they needed more understudies. And so I showed up and it was like, it was unbelievable. And, you know, just, I don't know if you believe in fate or whatever, but I moved to New York right when they needed somebody who could play 10 instruments and who could talk on stage. And it was an incredible gift. That was and still kind of is the greatest experience of my theatrical life.

[20:23] Alan Seales: So you had union dues right off the bat. Were you union coming out of college?

[20:27] Joe Carroll: Yeah, I got my equity card at a little theater in Michigan called Mason Street Warehouse, which is, I did a bunch of shows for them and they're in the summertime and they helped, they gave me my equity card with the production of Avenue Q coming right out of college. And so I, you know, I did Avenue Q and then I had to pay, you know, you had to pay the good people at Actors' Equity, a large chunk of money. And then, and that was, that was that. So I was lucky enough to be union coming to the city, which can always be a tricky thing for actors.

[21:04] Alan Seales: Right. Yeah. I think that's, that's coming, coming here has helped you out. Already being union has helped you out a lot. The way you tell the story compared to other people, other stories that I've heard, it's, you were helped so much by, by UM and, and the business, like they seem to get the business side of it, which a lot of people coming here, they just show up and like, here I am. I was a star in high school. Give me lead roles.

[21:22] Joe Carroll: Yeah.

[21:22] Alan Seales: And they just get like crapped on for, you know, years.

[21:26] Joe Carroll: And I work, I work with high school students a lot and I tell them, you know, what are you looking for in a university? And I tell them, you gotta, you gotta ask the hard questions of these universities. Like, what do you do to help your graduates? What is that transition like to get you to New York city or to LA, um, or to Chicago? Um, who do you know? And how can you help? Because that is what all every business school does that every, every good college will have career fairs or have, you know, you know, alumni relations or whatever. And the arts community is no different. You have to, how do I, how do I, how do I find an agent? How do I, you know, how do I go to open calls? What do I, what do I do?

How do I get, you know, these questions that you have to ask these questions and the universities have to help. Um, and Michigan was incredible in that way. And so I, I was, I had it almost as easy as you possibly could coming to New York after college and then having this amazing show present itself, um, very shortly after graduation where, and I went into once, um, in end of August of 2012. So I would, yeah, it was pretty, pretty cushy. It was pretty sweet.

[22:35] Alan Seales: Do you remember where you were when you got the call?

[22:37] Joe Carroll: Yeah, I was in, yeah, totally. I was in Newark airport, which is not a very romantic place. But I was going home for a wedding and, uh, I was, I, I had gone to, I'd gone to my final call back at, um, you know, three or four. I actually, I had, I had gone to my final call back in the morning with Martin Lowe, the music director. And we played through a good chunk of the entire score of once on drums, ukulele, mandolin, guitar, bass, and piano. And I just like went around the room at this, this studio and played through the majority of the score. And it went great. I mean, I was just super prepared. I had spent a lot of time with that cast album with Glenn Hansard's music, just learning how to play all of it.

So I was really prepared. I knew what I was doing. It was super fun. And then, uh, I went and I worked a job at Javits convention center, helping set up like a trade show for some friend of a friend to set up. So I was like literally just doing manual labor at Javits convention center for six hours and then went to Newark airport and went through security and got a text from Steven Coppola, the casting director who, um, uh, he's, he's still just one of my all time favorite people in the business. This guy has really made, uh, helped me so, so much. And he texts me and he says, and I saw the text and the text said, uh, you're going to be the new, uh, under, you're going to be the new swing. And once call me as I'm going through security and then I have to put the phone in the belt and it goes through the conveyor.

And I'm like, you know, in a daze. And then I get the phone out and I call him and Steven is so dry and he's hysterical. And I call him and I'm like, Steven. And he's like, yeah, so how do you, you're going to make your Broadway debut. And I was like, I'm crying in the middle of Newark airport. And he's like, yep, super excited for you. Um, I have to go. I'm, you know, he's like going to see a show or something. He's like in the middle of his work day. And, uh, and I, and I just, I called my mom and you know, mom starts crying. Dad starts, everybody's just like freaking out. And, and I'm making a whole scene in Newark airport. I'm like on my knees, you know, on the phone right on the other side of security and terminal C or whatever. And people probably thought something really horrible had happened, but something really wonderful had happened actually.

[25:03] Alan Seales: That's funny. I can, I can picture that. Oh, Newark airport. And half the people didn't care. And half the people link. What?

[25:08] Joe Carroll: Um, so you're a week in. Yeah. Yeah. We can have, we can have, and you replaced the wonderful John Riddle. Yeah. Um, who I've known since college. He was at Cincinnati when I was at Michigan. We've been friends. I've known him a long time and you know, he texted me when I got the job and you know, big, wonderful, you know, so excited for you to be filling. He said, I think he said, I'm so excited for you to be filling the bad boy's shoes. Um, and uh, yeah, he's a great, just a great guy.

[25:09] Joe Carroll: Yeah, exactly. Get out of my way. Get out of my way. I've got security to get through.

[25:12] Alan Seales: Well, let's talk frozen. Yeah. Cause you know, that's why we're here.

[25:34] Alan Seales: You got the text as you were going through security.

[25:37] Joe Carroll: JFK, JFK. Um, well, how, how did the character change between the two of you? Have you, are you trying to emulate him or are you kind of like, have you been given the direction? Just, you know, here's the script, make it your own.

[25:48] Joe Carroll: Yeah. Uh, yeah. I mean, I, I just, I feel like good actors are just stealing from good actors. So I had the great opportunity to just sit there and watch him a couple of times, um, to see where he goes and you know, where he, where he walks. And so I, I watched the show twice, um, really intently. And then I would watch, and then I watched a couple more times, um, sort of on monitors and stuff to make sure I was going to the right, exiting in the right places and whatever. But I just sat there and I was like, oh, I'm, I'm stealing that. And I'm stealing that. I'm stealing that. Um, and he, cause he was so funny and fantastic in the part. And then I just brought my own sort of, you know, little spin to it.

Um, and, and Michael Grandage and, and Adrian, the associate director and Tim, the assistant director and all of these people have just been so, um, you know, kind of do whatever you want, you know, like here's the, here's where you, you know, stand here, don't get hit by this thing, you know, do this dance step, but like kind of do it, do what you want. And the, it's been really fun this week to figure out like who my Hans is. Um, and so, you know, I guess when, by the time this comes out, I'll probably have more shows under my belt, but for now I'm, uh, figuring it out.

[27:06] Alan Seales: Do you see a difference between evil and selfish in terms of intent with Hans?

[27:11] Joe Carroll: You mean, well, just in general, but then, yeah, we'll relate it to how evil and selfish evil versus selfish. Yeah. Cause I have in my notes here, like this seems like your first evil character, but then I was, as I was about to say it, I don't think he's necessarily evil. I think he's just so narcissistically selfish that it just kind of just, you know, he'll do whatever you take, but he is the bad guy. Yeah. And it is, uh, actually this year I played a lot of bad guys on TV. I did like, I did about six, um, uh, bless you, did like six guest stars on various little New York shows where I was killing people and, you know, selling drugs or something. I don't know. I like, it just seemed like this has been the year of the bad guy for me.

[27:51] Joe Carroll: This has been kind of fun, but nothing on stage. No big musical theater is my favorite thing. This is my first evil, I guess, musical theater role. But the cool thing is we could get all sort of mammoth-y Shakespearean about evil characters not believing that they're evil. I think with Hans, it's just fun because I think he starts off with an intent, and then it changes. But at the top of the show, it's so funny and silly, and he meets this girl. And we talk a lot about what are the ulterior motives? What is he really doing? And the fun part for me is honestly, I think he's completely smitten with Anna, and I think it's really fun. Act one is act one, and act two is act two. And so, it's really kind of both sides of the coin.

I find his ambition to lead and have power is kind of the overall downfall, and I think that happens over the course of the show. Absolute power corrupts absolutely. And so, all of a sudden, the women are gone, and Anna runs after, tries to find Elsa, and now there's this guy who's been given a lot of power, and what's he going to do with it? And I'm only talking about Frozen. Yes, of course. Of course, what else could you be referring to in today's day and age? Yeah, but it's really fun. It's a really fun thing. I get booed at my curtain call. Such a trip. And I mean, I assume people listening, obviously, seeing the movie or whatever, I don't know how much of a surprise it is, but it is really fun to get to the end and have these little kids.

And then I go through the autograph line at the end, and those little kids look up at me really scared and confused, because it's real. For them, it's really good. For five, six, seven, eight years old, this is fully real. And I remember seeing shows in Chicago and Broadway touring companies and Broadway shows and believing this is the real thing. And they look at me, and they're like, I'm not sure about you, dude. And so, I try to look down, and I'm like, no, did you like the show? I'm not really that mean, I promise. But I don't know if they'll believe me, but they still take pictures and stuff.

[30:23] Alan Seales: I guess, do you enjoy this experience of being the bad guy versus normally being the good guy? Or are you looking forward to a time when you can get hugs and smiles in the show line after?

[30:36] Joe Carroll: Show line? What the hell's wrong with you? Stage door line.

[30:40] Alan Seales: Stage door.

[30:41] Joe Carroll: Autograph line. Brain fart. Yeah, okay. Stage door. Yeah, I like it. I'm just having a blast getting to do something very different. The second half of the show and the second half of Act Two is really unlike anything I've ever done. I find there's a lot of similarities between Prince Topher and Cinderella and Act One Hans. And so, I understand that. I like that style of humor. And Patty and I have an absolute blast. The first show was terrifying. The second show, I was still nervous. And I think around show four or five of last week, we really started to have fun. And so, Act One is super fun. And then Act Two, it just feels like something that I've never gotten to do before. And it's really exciting.

[31:31] Alan Seales: Right. What was your audition process like?

[31:34] Joe Carroll: Yeah, it was pretty classic. I got an appointment for my agent. First time was just for the associate team. So, I went in for casting and for... I think it was just... Brian, the music director, wasn't even there yet. I think it was just casting and the associate team.

[31:54] Alan Seales: How long ago was this?

[31:55] Joe Carroll: This was... Oh, gosh. December?

[32:01] Alan Seales: December. So, we're in March now, taping this.

[32:03] Joe Carroll: Yeah. I got the job... Gosh, I got to get my dates right. But it was pretty long. I had one with the associate team. The next week, I went back in for more associate team people. Then I had a dance call with... And that was just with... That was with Rob Ashford and Sarah O'Gleaby. And then I came back again for the whole... For Michael Grandage and for Stephen and for Brian, Stephen Remus and Brian Yusufur. And then the very final... So, that was on a Tuesday. And then the Wednesday was the final, final callback. And that was for Tom Schumacher and all Disney people. And that was a big... That was kind of the big... I call that the don't screw it up day. Because you've done it now enough. And it's like, they're either gonna choose you or they're not, but don't screw it up.

Just go in and do what you did for the last two weeks. And so, it was pretty involved. But that's kind of classic for big Broadway musicals. They really want to make sure you don't suck. And so, they push you through the ringer a little bit. But it was great. And I was just telling the story last night because Michael Grandage is coming to the show next week. He said the nicest thing on my final callback, and there's a lot of Disney people there, it's a very stressful day. And I walked in the room for my final callback and he came up, because I'd seen him the day before. And he said in his very British way, he was like, you did brilliantly yesterday. Just do the same thing today in front of all these people. And I was like, okay, all right, everything's fine. Just take a deep breath and just do it again. Just hit the ball.

[34:02] Alan Seales: I guess that's the point. You have to repeat yourself, repeat your amazing performance, now eight times a week.

[34:06] Joe Carroll: Yeah. But then it was fun because he gave me real freedom in that moment in act two where you realize that, oh my gosh, Hans is actually the bad guy. He gave me full license to go... actual direction he gave me was go full bad guy. Because I think I was even too nice. I'm like, oh, I'm the bad guy. He was like, just go for it. Full evil. I was like, okay. And so, that was really fun to just turn up my mustache.

[34:30] Alan Seales: The snidely whiplash inside you is coming.

[34:33] Joe Carroll: Exactly, yeah.

[34:35] Alan Seales: It's interesting to me that you said that you play act one as if he's actually smitten with Anna. And it never occurred to me that he actually liked her until you just said that. And yeah, I can believe that. I think he sort of does.

[34:51] Joe Carroll: I think that if we get really into the sort of dramaturgy of Frozen, that if...

[34:58] Alan Seales: Tell me more.

[34:59] Joe Carroll: Yeah, right. If he shows up already knowing... I don't know. If he shows up that he knows he wants to take over the kingdom, he doesn't know anybody. He hasn't met Elsie. He hasn't met Anna. He doesn't know anything. And so, he happens to bump into the sister. And so, I think, for me, to not feel like an evil villain from the moment I walk on stage, to be like, oh my gosh, who is this girl? And then she leaves and she says, Prince Hans is in charge. And then that's that kind of moment where it's like, okay, I'm in charge now. And I'm going to do whatever I need to do to be in charge. But I like playing it like he likes her. I mean, how can you not? I mean, at first it's Patti Murin. And it's so infectious. She's funny and she's beautiful. And we're going to sing this ridiculous song about how love is an open door. That takes a real sociopath to not have any fun. So yeah, I enjoy it.

[36:03] Alan Seales: How many times have you seen the original animated movie?

[36:06] Joe Carroll: Honestly, only once.

[36:07] Alan Seales: Really?

[36:07] Joe Carroll: I just saw it one time and I saw it a little bit after it came out. And I...

[36:13] Alan Seales: You don't have kids then?

[36:14] Joe Carroll: I don't have kids. I saw it and I loved it. And then when the audition came in, I was like, let's just figure this out for myself. And then I need to go back and watch it again, actually. Because for a second, I kept asking the question of like, oh, wait, is this in the movie? Is this in the movie? And people would look at me like I was crazy, like I hadn't done my homework, which I guess I hadn't. And there are some things in... There's a ton of stuff in the show that was not in the movie, obviously. But then like Fixer Upper in Act Two, which is this big, fun fixer, you know, dance number. I was in rehearsal and I asked if that was in the movie. And people were like, yeah, of course. Like, who are you?

And watch the movie. It made a billion dollars. Like, you should know this movie. This is a really important animated movie. Anyway, so. Yeah, it's my... Let It Go is still my four-year-old's... He's like, that's my favorite song, Daddy. He likes that. Yeah, we'll listen to the soundtrack. They like the ice song at the very beginning of the movie where they're cutting through the ice, I guess, the prologue. Yeah, I got a lot of... It's crazy when you get into a show like this, how many people with kids come out of the woodwork. I'm getting a lot of text messages and emails about, oh, you know, people haven't heard from in a while. It's my kid's favorite movie. I'm like, oh, you're the only one. Well, thanks. I'll archive that.

[37:40] Joe Carroll: Yeah, exactly. So, you've worked with a couple of very big names, Cassie and Patty being two of them, obviously. But you've had Carly Rae Jepsen, worked with her in Cinderella. And then you were actually understudying and working with Orlando Bloom in Romeo and Juliet. Have you ever gotten starstruck working with anybody?

[38:04] Joe Carroll: Starstruck? I don't really get starstruck. I get starstruck by maybe people that some people don't get starstruck by. Like when I met Glenn Hansard backstage at Once for the first time, he kind of showed up just no big deal. He was just seeing the show. And I couldn't remember my own name. I was like, I'm just so grateful for you. Because Falling Slowly was one of the first songs I learned how to play on the guitar. But when you get in a rehearsal room with people, even the big stars, and I've done readings or benefits or whatever. And big stars, I would say for the vast majority of them who are drawn to the theater are just people who happen to be super famous. And Orlando just wanted to be as good as possible.

And he worked so hard. And Carly was the same way. And Kiki Palmer was the same way. And then obviously, the Broadway, Corey Cott and Laura Osnes and Casey Pett, of course. They just want to do a good job. And they're just people. So I do get starstruck. I'm trying to think if there's anybody else. Maybe come back to that one. Is there anybody that you'd like to meet that you haven't gotten the chance to yet?

[39:13] Joe Carroll: Paul McCartney. If there's any chance in the world that he came to see Once before I came into it, I think. I could be making that up. But he did not come to see it while I was in it. But Springsteen is another one. And he did come to see Once when I was in it. And he was going to come backstage. And we were all ready. And then there was a bit of a security kerfuffle where people were asking for autographs and made a scene around him. And so then he hopped in his car and drove off, which was a total bummer. But yeah, I'm just the biggest Beatles fan. And so if there was ever a world where I bumped into him, that would be really cool.

[39:53] Alan Seales: Well, I know Paul McCartney is a huge listener of this, huge fan of this podcast. He writes me every day. So here's Sir Paul. Reach out to Joe here.

[40:02] Joe Carroll: Please. Yeah, that's so good. You mentioned earlier that guest spots and stuff. So you've had on TV. So NCIS, NCIS New Orleans, Chicago Fire, Deception, All My Children, Soap Opera.

[40:15] Joe Carroll: Yeah. Yeah. And The Carrie Diaries. Does that, did that all fit in in between, like while you're doing shows or do you do it on time off? How does that work?

[40:25] Joe Carroll: Yeah, I, the TV, New York is an amazing place. There's so much TV being shot here and cast here all the time. And I think a lot of musical theater and Broadway people want to, you know, pursue that as well. You know, you see a lot of amazing people who got their start in the theater and got their start on Broadway who are, you know, you know, Billy Porter was the biggest thing at the Oscars the other night, you know, like Broadway legend. It's just like unbelievable. You know, I went to college with Darren Criss. You know, these people are who like started in the theater and they're now having huge TV careers.

[41:00] Alan Seales: Darren Criss went to UM too?

[41:00] Joe Carroll: Yeah, he was an acting major. Yeah. We actually played music together in a little breakfast cafe for like hungover students on Saturday and Sunday mornings, my freshman year of college. It's a place called Sava's in Ann Arbor, which is still there. And that was how I met him, you know, what seems like a million years ago. But the TV stuff is, there's just a lot of it. And all of the, the majority of the stuff I've done, I just did an episode of The Code, which is a show that's going to come out at CBS in the next, I think in April, it's premiering. Pippa Soo is on that. And, and then the NCIS and that sort of stuff all happened on breaks. I was just, I was kind of chilling, hanging around, you know, going on audition, get a job. And that was really a lot in the last year. I think I did like five of them, five or six in the last.

[42:18] Joe Carroll: Would you do theater full time or would you do TV or movies full time? You know, I like the TV stuff because it's different every day. Sometimes when you get, you know, six months or eight months or a year into a long run of a Broadway show, it isn't in its essence the same thing every day. And you just for me, you know, you get up there and you, you know, you catch the look of, I mean, Frozen, you catch the look of some little girl in an Elsa costume and immediately you're like, Oh, okay. I know I'm doing the show today. Like it's going to be, I don't think that's going to be a problem, but the TV stuff is fun because it's every day is a little, a little different. It's a little, you know, where are we today?

What are we shooting today? Um, in my perfect world, I'd kind of honestly be where I am doing Frozen and then maybe get to do like a couple of days on a movie and then go back to Frozen. And so I'm able to do, I haven't, I'm kind of just, I'm here, I'm in Frozen, I'm doing the thing, but, um, you know, I'd like to kind of do it all at the same time, which is extremely greedy. Um, but why not, why not put it to the universe that I would like it all, please. I'd like it all. I'd like it all. Okay, Hans. Yeah, there we go. It kind of sounds horrible, but no, I think, I think it's completely doable. There are so many people that, that they'll like, I followed James Eichelhardt is a friend of mine.

Yeah. Um, he seems like he's always leaving Hamilton and coming back and he's like doing these TV shows and all of a sudden he's popping up with Jonah Hill and Maniac on Netflix. And Patty just shot, Patty just shot a Christmas movie like two weeks ago, like right as I was going into the show, she was shooting a movie. Um, my friend Ashley Park, who I went to college with, who's in Mean Girls was doing a Netflix show the last couple of weeks and months. And, um, you know, like you're able to kind of do a lot of it. And that's why New York is so exciting because there's just so much, so much happening. You can, you can do your, you know, do musicals, do plays, do TV, do film, do all of it. So, well, the nice thing is that you can film during the day.

Yeah. Yeah. Because if you're on a one show day, you just go in at night. That's your day starts at what? Six thirty, six o'clock. Yeah. And that's, that's the, the dream. I'm Bobby and I were talking about it in dressing room the other day. Cause some people just started, Brian just started working on a new lab, a new workshop. What are we calling them now? I think we're calling them labs that we, yes, it doesn't matter. Um, so our music directors are working on a new show and Bobby and I were like, isn't that the dream? You just want to be like doing new stuff all day, doing your Broadway show at night, you know, that it's so, it can be a really rewarding career when you're, when you're working a lot, when you're not working, it's, it's pretty horrible all the time.

But, uh, but when you're working, it's pretty sweet. Have you, have you had any dark times when you haven't been working? Yeah. I mean, coming off Cinderella, I didn't work for, um, almost, almost a year. Um, I did Cinderella that closed in 2015 and then I didn't, we did the out of town of Bandstand at Paper Mill in the fall of that year. And so that was the only time that I worked in 15. And then in 2016, I basically didn't work at all. And so it was like, I was catering and waiting tables and bartending and, and just grinding. And, and it was, and that was really, I mean, that'll, again, you'll, you're, you're on a catering job and somebody's like, wait a minute, are you, I just saw you as the Prince in Cinderella.

Right. And, um, and I'm holding a tray of food and it's like, yes, you did. And I also have to pay my rent. And so here we are. Um, but that was the real, that was, that was an extremely informative time too, because there's no, there's no, certainly no shame in, in bartending or there's no shame in any of that. I feel like there's a shame in credit card debt, you know, like you gotta, you gotta grind, you gotta figure out a way to pay your bills. And as an actor, like you can be, you can be super successful and then you can not be super successful and you can be on top of the world. And, you know, my, my wife and I talk about, you know, you save your ducats, you just stash it away. Don't, you know, I kind of want to take expensive vacations and she's like, no, we need to save for a rainy day.

Um, but yeah, so. Well, hopefully, hopefully it will, it will keep coming and you can do other things like, uh, like start a Broadway hockey league. Yeah. Broadway hockey. Which I know you want to do. Yeah. I talked about that at one point. I don't think, I think there's like, there'd be like four of us, you know, there'd be like four or five guys skating around in the Broadway hockey league, but I love the Broadway softball league. I play in the Broadway softball league on Thursdays. And so that's super fun. Um, and I also don't think producers would love a Broadway hockey league. I think, you know, Hans needs all his teeth. I was going to say, you still have all your teeth. Yeah. This one, half of this one's fake.

The right one had to be like, had to be like a soldered back on. Yeah. I get all sorts of busted nose and stitches. I got these weird scars on my chin from stuff, but nobody can see that because it's a podcast. So. Well, you can, you can send a selfie when you do the Instagram takeover and you can do like the story of all your scars. Yeah. Tough guy. Yeah. That's fun. No, I would, I've, I always played, uh, uh, roller or hockey on rollerblades. Yeah. Roller. Sure. Roller. Roller hockey. If you want to call it that. Yeah. Cause in North Carolina, we didn't have ice. We had ice when it snowed on the street, but not like an ice rink where we could go play. Right.

[47:38] Joe Carroll: So yeah, I'm pretty decent with like a stick and rollerblades, but not so good with, uh, with the ice skates. Um, so anyway, we're wrapping up here. We've been chatting for a great, a great time. Thank you for this. And there's three standard questions that we ask everyone to close out the podcast. First one, very simply, what motivates you? Um, that's a good question. It's a very, that's a kind of meta question. Um, what motivates me? Um, I need to pay my bills. No. Um, okay. Yeah, no, exactly. This is turning into a real Hansi and, uh, no, I, I find that, that, um, I just, I set out on this bizarre path because I wanted, you know, to be an actor because I, I wanted to tell stories and I wanted to play make-believe, um, when I was a kid and I find, I just want to keep playing make-believe as long as people will let me.

Um, and also I steal this from Danny Burstein, who I worked with on Moulin Rouge this summer. Um, he said, the only thing I ever wanted was the respect of my peers. And I think that I'd steal that completely. I just want to, I want people to be like, oh yeah, I, you know, I loved, worked with Joe, respect Joe, love Joe. Um, and so yeah, those two.

[49:02] Alan Seales: All right. Number two, then what advice would you give to your younger self and younger people listening now starting out down a similar path?

[49:07] Joe Carroll: Um, definitely to other, you know, to people who want to, young, young people who want to be actors, um, to consume as much as possible. Um, see everything, read, watch movies, watch TV, you know, go on YouTube, binges of your favorite singers, figure out like, like consume as much as possible because it's, that's not wasting time. That's gaining knowledge in the same way that we go to school and, you know, it's just a different type of learning. That was the best advice I got from a college professor was it's a different type of work, you know? Um, and so I would say just consume as much as possible and be nice to people. Uh, we had a talk back the other day and Ryan Redman said that to this group of kids.

And I totally agree with that. Just try to be good to people, try to be nice. There's a lot of negativity and it's a very competitive industry where a lot of people will, um, who, I don't know, I don't want to say stab you in the back, but, but there's a lot of, um, negativity. And so to try to be a good person, to be nice. Um, and then to my younger self, I would say, don't, just don't be scared. I think that I was scared of succeeding sometimes and therefore would, um, sort of self-sabotage, you know, like I would, I would not, I wouldn't learn my lines for the audition. Why? And I, you know, I don't know. You're, you're like, I don't have, it's like, it's like, why don't you do the math homework?

It's, it's, and so I wouldn't, I wouldn't do the work. And I think that that was a fear of, of, of failure, a fear of, of succeeding even the fear of what that, even what that means. And so, and I still struggle with this sometimes to just don't be afraid. Um, don't be afraid of the unknown. Don't be afraid of, of, um, yeah, just don't be, don't be afraid. My mind is going so many places to try to figure out the motivation behind it. And I totally get it. I'm, I'm the same way. A lot of times is, is if you don't try, then you don't have the possibility of failing, but there's still that it's deeper than that because why are you afraid of failing? Um, yeah, I, I, I can't totally answer that. I guess I, I just, I've seen in myself, whether it's not doing your homework in high school for, you know, whatever reason to going in front of a huge casting office and, and leaving and being like, I didn't know my lines.

Why didn't I know my lines? And, and it's just, it's just work. It's preparation, but it's, it's a, it's a fear of, of failing, but you're absolutely right. If you don't, if you don't put yourself out there, you can't, you know, get hurt. And so, and I think that that's the hardest part about being an actor is you're just putting yourself out there over and over and over and over again. And so that's, that's a big one for my younger self. Just, just be, be totally ready to fail and don't worry about it. Don't be afraid of failure.

[52:07] Alan Seales: Yeah. I mean, this business is a lot of rejection, but rejection does not equal failure.

[52:13] Joe Carroll: Exactly.

[52:14] Alan Seales: Because sometimes you're just not, like, you don't even look right.

[52:17] Joe Carroll: Right.

[52:18] Alan Seales: That, that could be, this is one of the few industries where you get, you have to get discriminated against because of your looks.

[52:25] Joe Carroll: Yeah. Yeah. They can do that.

[52:26] Alan Seales: Yep. Anyway. Okay. Last question. If you can only see one show for the rest of your life, but you can see it as many times as you want, which show would you see?

[52:31] Joe Carroll: Passing Strange. Passing Strange is my favorite musical. Stu, Spike Lee filmed it. It's on, it used to be on Netflix. It's not on Netflix anymore. I saw that, I watched that movie about once or twice a year. It is, have you, have you seen it?

[52:53] Alan Seales: No, I haven't.

[52:54] Joe Carroll: It's, it's a musical that, about mothers and sons. It's about being an artist. It's about being a musician. And I saw it, I studied abroad in London, my junior year of college, and it completely changed my whole life. And still like, like, I'll, I'll see some of the actors who were in that and Colin Domingo, the Rebecca Naomi Jones. And, and I'll see them walking around New York or like, you know, be an event or something. And like this Oklahoma, that's coming up, like Rebecca Naomi Jones is in it. And I'm totally starstruck by those actors because it's my favorite show. And so I've never, I've never met any of them, but I think if I met them, I'd get really weird because I just want to talk about like, well, what did, what did, what did you do at this point?

What'd you do at that point? And it's just about, it's a show that I have a great relationship with my mom, but I find shows about mothers and sons, fathers and sons, just wreck me, family stuff. And also like what it means to be an artist. And that show to me is, is such a comment on what it is to be an artist and, and to be in love. It's also a love story and it's a, you know, how do you, how do you keep a relationship going in the arts? And I just got married in October, but it's like, how do you, you know, it's about relationships. It's about family. It's about music and art. And so I would, I still, I watch it a couple of times a year. I'm so glad it's filmed. I think that there, I hope that there's more of that in the future for Broadway because I think the archival purposes and, and is, is really great.

So that's my, yeah, that's that one for sure. And it's an easy answer. That one. Yeah. That was quick. Yeah. That's like people, they're like, Oh, I hate you. Why'd you ask me that? And then you were just like, all right, yeah, that's it. That's, that's it. And I have, I mean, I love so many, so many things. I've, shows and, and theater and, you know, Once is another one. I mean, I was so lucky. I feel, I still talk about it all the time. It was my favorite show. I saw it, I saw it three times and then I got to be in it. And, um, but Passing Strange is truly one of my all-time favorite pieces of art, period. Wonderful. Yeah. Well, we can find more of you on Twitter and Instagram, joe underscore Carol Mitch.

Yeah. For Michigan, Michigan. Yeah. Yep. Um, and then you can get more of me theater underscore podcast on Instagram and Twitter or facebook.com slash official theater podcast, listen and subscribe. Please rate this podcast. If you're listening on a podcast player, go rate it, leave a comment. I love to hear that stuff. You can reach me via feedback at the theater podcast.com. This is produced by Jillian Hockman and the music you hear right now, beginning in end, our pre-roll and post-roll is all by Jukebox the Ghost, Joe Carroll. Thank you again for coming. This has been so fun. Thank you very much.