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[0:00] Alan Seales: Welcome back to the Theatre Podcast. I'm your host, Alan Seales, and our guest today is Mikayla Renfrow, who is currently Nessa Rose in Broadway's Wicked. I almost said Ricked. That wasn't right. She is making her Broadway debut after recently graduating from CCM and has just been thrust into one of the biggest machines on Broadway. I say machines in a good way because Wicked is just one of these institutions. It's the fifth longest running show in Broadway history. So, I think it's going to be around for a long time. Obviously, one of the biggest houses in New York, if not the biggest, I think, and it just continues to sell out. It's incredible. Find me online on Instagram and Twitter at Theatre Underscore Podcast. Leave a review or a rating wherever you're listening now. And everybody, please enjoy this conversation with Mikayla Renfrow.

[1:07] Alan Seales: Today's guest is making her Broadway debut as Nessa Rose in Wicked. She recently graduated from CCM and has additional stage credits, including the title role in Cinderella at the Paramount Theatre, Alice in Seven Brides for Seven Brothers at the Muny, and D'Lee in Smokey Joe's Cafe at the Fulton Theatre. She was Princess Kimber in the Workshop of Bliss and little known fact, according to LinkedIn, still works at Lululemon. Mikayla Renfrow, welcome to the Theatre Podcast.

[1:31] Mikayla Renfrow: Oh, no, not my LinkedIn profile.

[1:38] Alan Seales: So, I assume you don't actually still work at Lululemon.

[1:45] Mikayla Renfrow: No, I ended that job, I think, in October of last year. Hold on, let me go back to that page. What is it? Educator. What does that mean? What were you doing?

[1:52] Mikayla Renfrow: Educator. Basically, that's the term they give their, I'm going to assume they're like lower based retail members. And our job was to educate you about what gear is best for your fitness lifestyle. So, we would just kind of walk you through what clothing would be best for you.

[2:15] Alan Seales: So, a sales associate?

[2:21] Mikayla Renfrow: Yes, basically.

[2:26] Alan Seales: So, why not call?

[2:35] Mikayla Renfrow: Okay. All right. All right. So, is this like a, like a, like a sommelier at a restaurant? Like the sales associate?

[2:41] Mikayla Renfrow: Absolutely. The best side by side comparison someone could ever get for an educator. Yes, absolutely. Just like a thon.

[2:50] Alan Seales: Wow. Okay. Okay. So, you walk in, you're like, hello, sales associate. I need lots of help because I like to run and sleep at the same time. So, and they're like, I don't know what I'm talking about. I need to call.

[3:02] Mikayla Renfrow: Or like, if you want to come in and you want to like, you want to look active, but you just kind of stay home and you walk around your apartment as we've all been doing, you know, obviously the past two years, then I would show you towards like a super soft short and sweatshirt moment. I don't know. I don't, my training's a little behind, but well, okay, let's let's go into your, into your actual theater training. So then we'll go back even farther than that. So where did you actually grow up?

[3:17] Mikayla Renfrow: Well, I was born in Louisville, Kentucky. And then I always say my home is Cincinnati, Ohio. That was, I moved around a lot. So Cincinnati was kind of the first city in which I stayed put for more than three or four years. So from age 13, up until when I graduated from college, I was a Cincinnati girl, but my mother always gets angry at me when I say I'm from Cincinnati because she's like, you're from Louisville, Kentucky.

[3:45] Mikayla Renfrow: Well, it's Southern pride. You can't, you can't just throw it away.

[3:49] Mikayla Renfrow: I do. I still have my Southern pride. Don't get me wrong. I spent some time in Nashville too. So I'm definitely having my Southern pride still going strong, but I do consider myself a Cincinnati girl.

[4:03] Alan Seales: Well, listen, I'm from North, I say I'm from North Carolina when I was tiny, tiny was in Florida, but I still say North Carolina because that's where my impressionable years are from. And with all the bullshit happening in the South right now, anyway, I don't.

[4:16] Mikayla Renfrow: Definitely. You're like Florida who? No.

[4:19] Alan Seales: Yeah. Who? No, no, no, no, no. But did you ever have an accent? You don't, you don't have a Southern Kentucky accent.

[4:25] Mikayla Renfrow: I did when I was, yeah, my partner says that it comes out when I'm angry or if I'm really emotional, my Southern accent will come out. But I remember when I first moved to Cincinnati, that was like the one thing that I was really made fun of. And so I try, I listened to my stepmother a lot and I tried to mimic how her voice was. So, but it creeps up there and then, yeah.

[4:45] Alan Seales: Oh, for sure. It creeps up. Yeah, I, I, I lose it. I, or when I go back to visit, I just came from, uh, from North Carolina. I was there last week to visit my parents and, and, uh, I go out and I, when I go to Bojangles, that's usually where it starts to creep in.

[5:01] Mikayla Renfrow: Yep. Or if you're on the phone with family.

[5:09] Mikayla Renfrow: Oh, it, it still comes. I can't keep it hidden. I can't. Hi, bye. I never said y'all, I never did the y'all thing. And, and I don't know, that just wasn't a real word to me. And did you ever say bless your heart?

[5:15] Mikayla Renfrow: I didn't just because I feel like that was said a lot about me. And so, yes.

[5:32] Alan Seales: Yeah. Yeah. So I tried to not put that trauma on other people.

[5:40] Mikayla Renfrow: I completely agree with you because that was why I brought it up. I was like, Oh, let's, let's pity them while making fun of them. Bless their heart. Yeah. It's like, it's like when the church women are really trying to gossip and spread things, but then they want to come off as kind and Christian bless her heart.

[6:02] Alan Seales: Okay. So this may be, this may be early in the, in the episode to get into the, into any sort of trauma, but I'm going there. So you present as Asian and there's a lot of, of Asian, a lot of racial things going on these days. And you're from the South. And I speaking of firsthand of just witnessing the racism and everything that's happening all around all of these strange places. And so you said, this is why I brought it up. Cause you were like, you were the recipient of a bless your heart a lot. What did it have anything to do with like being sort of feeling out of place or being out of place in traditionally white presenting Southern area?

[6:31] Mikayla Renfrow: I mean, there was a point in my life where I always felt like a black sheep for sure. Like my, my Asian side comes from my father's side and I was living with my mother for a period of my childhood. So I was around my mother's family and that's the side of the family that I don't really look like. But that was also the Southern side of my family. So I'm sure that had something to do with all the, but it's funny because I just visited with my father's my father's side of the family and his, his father's from Hartford, Kentucky, which is like an even smaller town. And they were this half Japanese big sibling family. There was eight of them. And they always tell these stories about how they were like this one Asian family and the teeny tiny Kentucky town.

And I would took them out to drinks and I was like, I just want to hear all the stories about you being the only family that wasn't this white Southern family. And I got a lot of, you know, a lot of the same trauma stories and the discrimination stories, but to them that they're like, but that was just life. And like, that's how it was. And, you know, we assimilated and it's true. Like I can see even in my aunts and uncles, almost how they would put, um, what's the term not PC terms on to me or say not PC things to me, but that's just because they grew up in that area where they, you know, they got it and then they pass it down.

[8:18] Mikayla Renfrow: What is it? Passed down trauma or inherited, inherited trauma. Yes. Yeah. I'm sure that the bless your heart came down because I was a black sheep at some point. I mean, it's all connected. What about going to Cincinnati then go to Ohio then was it, was it, did that follow or was that sort of a different, a different experience? And then I, maybe, maybe I'm stretching, but I feel like a lot of people get into theater or get into musical theater, it's chosen family. It's like finding a tribe of people who just accept you period, right? Because everyone has different things going on. So like moving to Cincinnati and then getting into theater, how was that all related?

[9:04] Mikayla Renfrow: So, um, I moved in with my father when I was 13 and I went to Catholic school for a semester because that was the only school I could join halfway through the year. So, um, that was a time that half semester in a Catholic school, because I was a public school girly for my entire life. Um, of course it was the only what non-white and also the only non-Asian in my program. I think there was like one other black girl in our entire, from what I saw in the hallway. Um, and we would always say hi to each other. We're like, how did we get here? Um, and I was like, I can't do this. I was miserable. I just moved to new city, new town, no friends. And my dad said, there's an art school downtown, you know, maybe that'll help.

And Cincinnati had this art school downtown. So it was technically, I guess you could consider it inner city school. So that art school, yes, I was the minority because I'm always a minority, but that school was just a superfluous amount of diversity in, in class and color and personalities. We were, it was all major. So I was with artists, instrumentalists, um, actors, dancers, like you name it, everyone did it. And we were all young high schoolers. So the angst was just everywhere, but it was this beautiful, like you said, this beautiful conglomeration of diverse artists. And it, my tribe became this gorgeous group of people. And I never felt like I was a black sheep just only because everyone came from everywhere, you know? And it was a blessing.

[10:51] Alan Seales: Was it, was it a public art school or like, did you have to audition to get in or?

[10:56] Mikayla Renfrow: So you did have to audition to get in, but I think from grade, it was a K through 12. So from grades K through, I want to say six, um, it was, do you have a passion for the arts? Let just, you know, paint us a picture, write up. It was creative writing, write us a story. And it was, if they could just tell that you were passionate about, uh, the arts, then they would take you and they didn't care where you were living. And well, I will say if you were out of state, you had to pay tuition, but Cincinnati is, I mean, it's downtown Cincinnati. Like the kids that live down there are not going to be your higher class families, you know? So it wasn't like some hoity toity art school and the kids that wanted, came from those families, they did have to pay tuition, but it, I mean, the mix of it, the majority of us were all downtown kids, you know, it was gorge. I loved it.

[12:00] Mikayla Renfrow: Gorge. Totes gorge. Gorge. It was gorge. Totes gorge.

[12:06] Alan Seales: OMG. Totes gorge. Oh my God. Um, I don't know. I'm, I'm, I hate being cool. I just learned the other day, the little miss meme trend that's happening right now. What is that? I don't get it.

[12:39] Alan Seales: Little Miss Nessa Rose, right? Like, you could literally make whatever you want and hop on the bandwagon.

[12:46] Mikayla Renfrow: Interesting. Okay. I mean, let it go. Hop off, Little Miss. No, that's the wrong musical. That's Frozen. The...

[12:57] Alan Seales: Little Miss Nessa Rose. So, Nessa Rose, you spat out a CCM and then you went to... Was there a graduate school after that, right?

[13:08] Mikayla Renfrow: No, there wasn't. I was just... I did four years of my Bachelor of Fine Arts.

[13:12] Alan Seales: I did... Okay. So, I was reading something different. Okay. LinkedIn. Oh, well, you failed me. So, LinkedIn failed me all over the place. Well, I probably failed at LinkedIn, okay? I don't know. I think that I was looking for work as a survival job, and I was like, I guess I need a LinkedIn profile. And probably didn't... The BFA Conservatory does not train you to create a LinkedIn profile, and that is why I failed.

[13:35] Mikayla Renfrow: Well, yeah, I think... It was just funny, though, because I normally never will look at LinkedIn for a, you know, for any of these interviews, if you're a theater person, right? Because it's a completely different thing. But for whatever reason, when I just put your name into Google, that showed up. I was like, oh, okay. I'll check it out.

[13:52] Alan Seales: Oh, all right. We're burning it. We're burning it. Burning an effigy. So, Nessa Rose, come out of your... You come out of college, and then now your Broadway debut in one of the biggest, amazing, legacy, historical shows that has ever been in existence in one of the principal roles now. So, do you remember... Do you remember... Or I guess, did you have one audition? You have multiple auditions? Let's start with the onboarding process.

[14:21] Mikayla Renfrow: The onboarding process. I started my Wicked journey, I guess you could say. My senior year of college, during Showcase, I was brought in for another role in the show, and I went in for that, I would say, probably twice. And then I, you know, that journey ended. And then... Or I guess you didn't say ended, it was put in the back burner.

[14:48] Alan Seales: It was Fiyero, right? They were...

[14:50] Mikayla Renfrow: Oh my god, how did you know? Yeah. I was trying to, like, work around that. Anyway. Actually, it was Chistory. That's my dream role, is Chistory in the show.

[14:59] Alan Seales: Really?

[15:01] Mikayla Renfrow: Oh my gosh, are you kidding me? To, like, fly off these ladders and, like, the most physical moment. Oh, anyways. And so then I went about my life, you know, auditioning for other things, and then Nessa came into my life in March of this past year, and it was so quick. I sent in one tape. I got a call back the next day, and I had to be in the city, but I was doing Smokey Joe's. And so I couldn't call out of the show. I didn't have... My understudy at the time wasn't in rehearsals yet. And so I couldn't go. I had to tell my agent that I couldn't go. And it was, like, this moment of, like, I feel like I just passed my Broadway debut. Like, not just because I wanted... I've always wanted Nessa, but just because there was just something about this moment in time where I felt like I'd passed something that was meant for me.

And so I let it go emotionally, and then they emailed me back two days later, and they said, you know what? We'll take you over Zoom. And so that weekend, I did the call back over Zoom, and then a week later, I found out I got it. So it was so quick, and it was the validation of knowing that I had that gut feeling that it was meant for me, and that it came true, and it was really cool.

[16:28] Alan Seales: We're going to take a short break. Stay tuned for more of the episode.

[16:42] Alan Seales: Wow. Are you an instinctual person like that normally? Do you follow... I always say that when I want to follow something, I feel it in my solar plexus, and then I've met people or been in situations that feel like they're pulling me away on the back of my neck, and I'm like, I can't find you.

[17:00] Mikayla Renfrow: Wow. Yeah. I love that. I'm so fascinated by that. I mean, I never thought of myself, I guess you could say, or identified as an instinctual person, but when I look back on all the things that have happened in my life, I always kind of saw them coming in a way, or I saw images or visions of just like, this is what I want, I can picture myself doing it. And I do everything I can, the steps that I can take to get there, and just hope that it all works out, you know? And then when they do, I'm not necessarily surprised. I'm grateful in every way. But it's like, you know what? No, I pictured myself doing this. I knew I could, and I did the steps I could to get there, you know?

[17:49] Alan Seales: That's really cool. Because it's... Someone was telling me about this the other day that they asked, they're like, what was the day and the time you were born? And I was never asked the time I was born before. And I gave her my birthday, and I gave her my birth time, confirmed it with my mom. And she said, what did she say? And she's like, it went into this weird sort of metaphysical stuff that I had never heard about before. And it was like, here's your sign, right? You know, Libra, whatever. But then the time has to do with how you handle instincts, and how you process that sort of basic unconscious energy, sort of. And I don't put much stock into that in general, because I'm very much scientific and technical and whatnot.

But there's, I guess my version, I've said this so many times on the podcast now, but my version of spirituality is going on this emotional journey with a room full of strangers watching an amazing story, right? And there's something to that that is instinctual. It's the herd mentality. It's, you know, safety in numbers when we were all animals. And telling stories and music, especially at your core, speaks to who we are from hundreds of millions of years ago. And I just feel, I feel all of that. That's my version of spirituality. I'm rambling now.

[19:18] Mikayla Renfrow: That's so beautiful. No, I love, love, love, love that interpretation of it. I can talk about it for some, like, we could just rant about astrology and spirituality. And I, where do you want me to get done? Are you an astrology person?

[19:31] Alan Seales: I am like, I would say I'm not dipping my toe. My foot is in the water for sure. But I am, I am always, I am humbled by everyone else's experience and knowledge of it that I can, I mean, I will sit over a glass of wine and listen to someone talk about it and their experience with it whenever and do it for hours.

[19:52] Mikayla Renfrow: That's so cool. Yeah, I'd love to know, I'd love to know about, I'd love to talk about the stuff, I guess, in terms of incorporating it into your everyday life. Because, you know, reading the horoscopes, there's power of suggestion and there's the way that you can manipulate different things based on different suggestions. And, you know, like illusionists and mentalists use this all the time. And it's a well proven skill that it's hard to develop. But being able to understand more about yourself, that's what really fascinates, it's fascinating about this, in my opinion, is to say like, okay, maybe it is power of suggestion. I admit that I'm like, oh, if someone tells me, because you were born at this time, that means you're going to act this way.

I'm like, oh, okay. But if it helps me to categorize, again, it's going back to the scientific part, right? So if I go back to categorizing my behavior or motivation or why I do things or why do we love theater? Why do we love performing? Why do we love dancing? If it has to do with the way the stars and the sun and the moon were all aligned when you took your first poop. Like, great! Amazing! Amazing! I just want to know why. I want to know why. I think it's great.

[21:06] Mikayla Renfrow: Well, I think I got into it because my mother had an astrology book when I was growing up. And she got into it. She's also a Pisces. I'm a Pisces. Her birthday is very close. And, of course, you know, watching my mom read it and her telling me, you're just like me, you know. We're both Pisces. And there was a book that she gave me that said most Pisces humans will become artists or actors.

[21:33] Alan Seales: Really?

[21:34] Mikayla Renfrow: And I'm sure I just carried that with me as well, knowing that I was like, yeah, I'm Pisces. And I'm really artsy and I flow with the wind in a lot of ways. It was like a person I always wanted to be.

[21:45] Alan Seales: And so I'm sure that's where it all started.

[21:47] Mikayla Renfrow: Well, that's an interesting paradox, right? Did you become an actor because someone said that or did someone say that because you were going to become an actor? Right? So it's one of those...

[22:01] Alan Seales: The chicken and the egg.

[22:02] Mikayla Renfrow: The chicken and the egg, right? Because if you hadn't read that, would you have done it? But if you were... Anyway. So I'm fascinated. Just fascinated by all this.

[22:11] Alan Seales: I know. We could go on. And all of these... I mean, looking back in your life, right? Were there any moments, I guess, when seemingly insignificant chances made you make a choice or led you down a path that all of a sudden you're looking back and you're like, oh yeah, I took a left there instead of a right and now I'm on Broadway. What the hell? Right? Are there any moments you can think of? Because you moved to Cincinnati, didn't like the Catholic school, and then just to get away from Catholic school ended up in an art school, which is... It's a big move, but it wasn't an intentional, I'm going to go here to be an artist move.

[22:49] Mikayla Renfrow: Yeah. Oh, goodness. That is so hard, just because I fully believe that every milestone was meant to place me where I am. And so to think that... I don't know. I only say this just because I had a whirlwind of a childhood. I moved around with family members. I bounced from family member to family member and each home I was in gave me something that brought me to where I am today. And I can't think about it too much just because I will not be able to speak, but every person, and every family member, and every teacher, and every mentor, or every friend that ever validated that I was good and good enough to chase my dream. Every single comment or sentence or phrase, that pushed me in the direction. So it's hard to just even pick out each milestone, you know?

[23:53] Alan Seales: I don't know. I get it. I get it. And I'm trying to figure out how to verbalize what's going through my mind because a lot of people have a very linear path. They start out with two parents and 50% statistically are going to end up getting divorced. So half of the people have step parents or whatnot, right? But it's more or less a linear path. And you have the stories of when it sounds like you had a very nontraditional childhood and there's stories like this or army brats that have to move around a lot. There's a different level of confidence that is mixed in with helping to cope with the trauma of having that instability because as a kid, you have this instability of a routine and a schedule. Whether you realize it or not.

[24:50] Mikayla Renfrow: Yes, you sound just like my therapist. They're like, Mikayla, you need a routine. And then when I'm not on that routine, I can't say shit.

[25:00] Alan Seales: Well, shit goes down.

[25:02] Mikayla Renfrow: My brain falls apart and I'm an emotional mess. So, absolutely.

[25:06] Alan Seales: Okay, let's dive into that because I love that eight shows a week, that's a schedule. That's hard. But, it's a routine.

[25:18] Alan Seales: And you get to sing, and you get to perform, and you get to be in this phenomenal show that is about to hit in, come October, 20 years on Broadway, by the way. That's incredible. And you're going to be in the show at this incredible milestone. Oh my god. And so, so then for you, this routine, how, I guess, between shows or between CCM and Wicked is your debut. So what are you doing between shows to keep your routine? What's keeping your sanity?

[25:48] Mikayla Renfrow: I have a morning routine. I try and get up around eight or nine. And I have this beautiful garden outside. I have this outside, this outdoor space. And it is my pride and joy. And so I hit the big three every morning. I have coffee in the morning. I take care of my garden in the morning. And I try and move my body. And usually 90% of the time, if I stick to that every single day, I'm set up for success emotionally and mentally for the rest of the day, you know. And it sounds so simple. But even when I was doing regional contracts, my therapist was like, okay, you're going to get to your living arrangements. You're going to bring a candle that has this smell that is your consistent comforting smell.

So you're going to bring that into your living space so that it at least smells like something you know. You're going to find your go-to coffee shop. So you know exactly as soon as you get there, you have your cup of coffee. You're getting outside, you're walking around, you're getting fresh air. And you're going to move your body. So if you're going to find out if there's a gym in that place, or if you're just going to take a walk around the block, you're just walking around. So I mean, your routine will change in whatever environment you're in. It's not going to be you know, ABCDFG every single time you go somewhere. But you got to set yourself up. And that's the biggest thing that I learned coming from an unstable childhood.

[27:20] Alan Seales: That's good. That's so wonderful. I guess as you get older, and you become a parent, you're sort of forced into that routine of getting them up. And like my two kids are, they wake up and I got to get them breakfast, and I got to get them to school or camp or whatever the case is. And yeah, that was one of the hardest things going into COVID. And I heard this from a lot of other people too. It's just everyone's routines and still coming out of COVID. I put in air quotes coming out because we're not. We're still in it. We're dealing with it. Now dealing with COVID, we'll say. Routines are still kind of all over the place. And I have a hard time. I have a hard time working at home. I'm working from home 100% now.

And it is really hard to have that self-control to say like, all right, once I am on my own, I just sometimes I just want to nap. Sometimes I know I have so much work to do that I don't know where to begin. It's like one of those situations, right? So for you in the pandemic, when there was no option to perform, like that's looks like that's when, again, according to LinkedIn timeline, that's when you were doing survival jobs.

[28:32] Mikayla Renfrow: Yes, I was. So was that, I mean, did you have, I guess, sort of any sort of existential moments, crises of sorts when you're like, oh, shit, my industry shut down this thing that I strongly believed in my solar plexus I needed to move towards is now gone. What do I do with myself?

[29:00] Mikayla Renfrow: Oh, goodness. Well, yeah, I would say so I was in college when that when all this happened. I was in my junior year. It was like halfway through my junior year. And I served all through college. I had a job ever since I was 15. That was like way of life for me. And so, honestly, it was like that first month of what is going on. Everything is shutting down. Obviously, my restaurant, we moved to just carry out. So I was still working, I still showed up, you know, 10am was there till four. So I still had some kind of schedule, right. And then once it got really bad, and we were just stuck in our houses. That's when, of course, the mentality of everything started to really hit. And, you know, questioning, how am I going to make money if theater is not like, you know, bounce back, I started to have those thoughts of, wow, I really don't like this instability, you know, like the theme of instability.

And why is it that, you know, I come from XYZ past, and then I put myself into a future where I have no idea what the next month is going to look like, you know. So then I was like, okay, well, I have other skills that I can use to have another job. So that's why I joined a fitness brand. And I started my life as a dancer. So I was like, I really know how to move my body. And I know how to teach other people how to move their bodies in a healthy way. So that was kind of the first industry that I switched over to that kind of had a direct link. And then my purpose became not, you know, not actor, artist, Michaela, but love to move your body, Michaela. And I was like, your go-to fitness instructor, which honestly, I think a really a big crossover in our industry, especially for dancers.

So that was kind of how I had to have purpose, right? You have to have purpose and a reason to get up in the morning. And if I didn't, if I didn't have that, I mean, after two weeks, it was, it was not going to be good. So I just immediately found a new purpose for me to be productive and, and, and make money truly. And so that's kind of what I switched to.

[31:12] Alan Seales: That's, that's so cool. I love that you just got into dancing recently, I didn't realize that, that it was more of a recent thing. Were you like in the in high school and whatnot? Did they have like, part of the curriculum of dancing too? Or was or did you just start really professional or I guess, taking classes really getting serious about it during the pandemic?

[31:30] Mikayla Renfrow: So I, I was a gymnast when I was like, a lead, a little one. That was kind of maybe the first hobby, I guess you could say I joined, I was like five or six. And I was a competitive gymnast. I was a national champion, actually, not many people know that. And I sport, I mean, gymnastics. I mean, what, what routine floor? Yeah, so my best was vault. I don't know why. But so I remember that, that me, I like placed first in vault, and then it placed me first all around because my vault score was so high. Wow. I know. I'm like, wait, I just like taking it back for me. But yeah. Um, and so when I when I really went in hard in theater in high school, when I was in my art school, my mentor Lila Shay was like, you're a dancer.

And I was like, I don't know. And she I mean, she was really hard on me. And I, I stayed at school until like 10 or 11 o'clock sometimes just in a gymnasium practicing what she gave me. And I would do as many intensives and camps during the summer that I could because I couldn't really I couldn't afford dance class that was like not in the cards for me. But I would I would be scholarship into these camps and intensives where I was taking ballet taking tap taking jazz. And it it like enthralled me. And so when I started working professionally at 13 regionally, I was only being used as a dancer and I was tumbling because I had gymnastics in my back pocket. So I was like your go-to girl to throw in the air.

And it all just kind of snowballed when I was in college. When I was in college, I was kind of trained to be the cover. So my my like path from my teachers for a period of time was to dance your face off the ensemble and then cover the lead. So this new like life into principle is very, it came a lot quicker than I thought it would. And I'm still having some imposter syndrome about it, but I'm very happy that it it I have other tools that I can use and and play into.

[33:53] Alan Seales: That's so cool. That's cool. So I want to get it in. Obviously, you don't need to give specifics, but it sounds like, you know, life young, the younger life was a bit of a struggle and and financially might have been hard. And now you're on Broadway in the best city in the world in a show that ain't going nowhere, earning earning that principal dollars. So like, now are you do you know what to do with yourself? Are you just sort of living in the moment a little bit like what's going on now? Because Wicked is not a show that's like I said, it's not going anywhere. So you're not you don't have to worry about the show closing tomorrow or you got to look on your face. What's going through your head?

[34:40] Mikayla Renfrow: Oh, I think well, it's funny because I've always been a person where like I write down my goals. And I like a specific planner brand that I've been using since I was a senior in high school. And part of it is you write down your goals, and then you write down the steps that you take. And so you're like proactive towards your goals. But I've had this planner brand for a really long time. But I have the planner that I had from senior year of high school, where I wrote down my dream life. And I remember like just the other day, I was walking to get a bagel before a show. And I was like, Oh, my God, I'm literally like in the vision that I had writing this dream life out where I'm living in New York City.

I have a job on Broadway. I'm paying rent. I'm not like scraping to get by, you know, like this bagel is not going to be my one meal for the next three days. And I just had this overwhelming feeling of Yeah, the girl that 17 year old girl would be so proud. And look at me and be like, Yeah, that's what I want to do. And it's been it's so rewarding. But that's such like an understatement. Yeah, it means a lot.

[36:18] Alan Seales: We're going to take a short break. Stay tuned for more of the episode.

[36:24] Mikayla Renfrow: Your first bow on your first night as Nessa Rose. Do you remember that? Do you remember the feeling or the you know, the applause the love coming from the biggest theater in New York? Like, yeah, shoved in your face? Yeah. Yeah. I there's like no words for it. You know, I try to I anyone that asked me all I want to do is like, put you in my body with my mind and my experiences and then push you out there for you to experience that bow because there's no you know, what that moment meant to me when you're under only understand it if you're me, you know, but I want I want people to know what that meant. So all I could say is like, I wish you were just in my body feeling all the things that I was because it was I mean, magical. There's there's really no other there's no word for it.

[37:11] Alan Seales: Is it a is it a I guess the the reason that you love it? Is it a a a feeling of feeling accepted a feeling needed of feeling? Finally, you can relax like everyone's got a different reason that they love being on stage that they either love or like they either need the validation or need just need to express themselves like sometimes they do it for the audience. Sometimes they do it for themselves. Sometimes they do it for any number of different reasons.

[37:57] Mikayla Renfrow: Oh, amazing. That was great. Yes. I've journaled about this a lot throughout my training and life. Why do we do what we do? I think we had to do that a lot when everything shut down. We had to go back to our why. And I could say there are many reasons why I do what I do. Many, many reasons. The one that is prominent in my brain at the moment is just because of our conversation. I and there, knowing that there are other young kids in the audience who are looking up at us actors and they might be going through whatever they're going through in our life, you know? And I can only put myself back into that situation of feeling like I was living this life and I couldn't get out of it, you know? And what this hobby turned, lifestyle turned, my career, what it gave me was that I was meant for something more than the life that I was currently living, you know?

I wasn't meant to be feeling the way I was feeling or I wasn't meant to be experiencing sad things that I was experiencing. I was meant to hold in tight and just wait for the actual purpose and the actual life to start, you know? And I guess when I do my bow every night, my really good friend Jordan, who's in the show, we've gotten really close, he's my box. He every single time, we always just look at the kids like, did you see those really cute kids over there? Looking at us with these big bright eyes or kids that look like us, that look like me and Jordan, who, you know, back then when they looked up at cast, they didn't really see people like us in the front, you know? We always check in with each other like, oh yes, I saw those kids and oh my god, that was like a little you or that was a little me and those are the thoughts that go through my brain. I think that's very much a current moment. There are many other reasons why I do what I do, but recently and as of today, that's what blows through at the moment.

[40:19] Alan Seales: Yeah, Jordan Barrow, great guy. First black man to play Bach in North America.

[40:25] Mikayla Renfrow: Yeah, you're doing a lot. I hit the jackpot. Yeah, yeah. With Brittany and Jordan and you and every, yeah, it's. And Christian and Clavant and yeah, it's a dream cast and I think about, I remember my first couple of weeks, I was like, if I had to be dropped into any wicked cast, it would be this one. Oh my god, it would be this one. It's such a good, it's a good show. It's a good cast. I mean, great, great show, great cast, great everything and I mean you, you, like you said, you hit the jackpot with this because coming out of college after a pandemic, people don't get the stability that you've got right now. So save your cash, save, don't take this for granted, like just, but enjoy every moment, right?

You gotta be present and I'm sure it sounds like you've done a lot of work on yourself and I'm a big proponent for therapy. I do therapy myself. Everyone go to therapy. My god, please. I wish it was government mandated. Or even just like read a self-help book and journal about what you've read because I know that therapy isn't always attainable. So just read a self-help book and go sit outside under a tree and journal about it and that in itself is going to help. Just writing.

[42:05] Mikayla Renfrow: You know what? This is a complete tangent and whatever, it has nothing to do with theater but I like to read there's certain subreddits on Reddit and one of them is just like these anonymous confessions from people about how they're feeling in the moment or like something that happened to them or something that they did or whatever and it's like, it's so cathartic for them. You read the comments and whatnot and it's so cathartic for them to get feedback from strangers and especially if they're like, I'm feeling depressed and I feel like I'm worthless or whatever the case is, they're not alone. They don't feel, they all of a sudden get bored and realize that, oh shit, there's a thousand billion, trillion other people that feel exactly the same way I do and I never knew that before. So I think it's rather important to again, talk to somebody or journal. I think that is great.

[42:37] Alan Seales: I agree with that. There's three standard closing questions I ask everybody to wrap up every episode but before that, I thought it'd be fun just to read you your horoscope for today. I pulled it up.

[42:45] Mikayla Renfrow: Thank you.

[42:47] Alan Seales: We are recording today, July 22nd, 2022. Your horoscope is, you might surprise a few people with your words and actions which could seem out of character for you, Pisces. Don't be surprised if you don't think or act like your normal self. There is a streak of the oddball side, oddball inside of you that wants to have its day in the spotlight. Let that part of you shine through by wearing your plaid pants with polka dot shirt and furry orange hat. Wear bright, expressive colors that show off your willingness to stand out in a crowd. Learn to love yourself and attract your perfect relationship with a free psychic lover. Oh no, that wasn't part of it. Okay.

[43:25] Mikayla Renfrow: I resonate with that because I'm a neutrals girl. My closet is black, white, gray, maybe olive green, maybe some yellow. I will try and bring out my yellow and maybe an orange, like a terracotta, my lucky scarf. I'll bring out my colors today.

[43:39] Alan Seales: And when something great happens, let me know. I want to know what this just manifested into existence.

[43:43] Mikayla Renfrow: I think that's brilliant. We'll go into the three closing questions before the world ends again.

[44:01] Alan Seales: Okay. Question one. What motivates you?

[44:05] Mikayla Renfrow: Which I think you probably answered in this form already, but very simply, what motivates you?

[44:11] Mikayla Renfrow: It's actually really hard to answer what motivates me. Audiences, kids, coming to see the show. Knowing that there are probably people out there that just need the story of Wicked. I don't know what that means to them, but they need a nine to theater, so we'll give it to them.

[44:37] Alan Seales: Alright. Second question then. What advice would you give to your younger self and younger people listening now, starting out down a similar path?

[44:45] Mikayla Renfrow: Oh my goodness. So much. Hang in there. I was literally going to say, hang in there. The cat with the rope, it's like, hang in there. Yes, literally hang in there. Keep working hard and don't let anyone ever tell you that your dreams are too big.

[45:11] Alan Seales: Hmm.

[45:13] Mikayla Renfrow: What is it? Aim for the stars and you land on the moon?

[45:15] Alan Seales: Yes.

[45:17] Mikayla Renfrow: Something like that. Okay. This is the final question, hardest one. If you can only see one show for the rest of your life, but you can see it as many times as you want, what would you see?

[45:25] Mikayla Renfrow: Oh no. Oh my goodness. Hmm. This is going to be a problematic answer, but it's a toss up between White Christmas and Carousel.

[45:41] Alan Seales: What?

[45:43] Mikayla Renfrow: Why White Christmas? Okay, so White Christmas because who doesn't love Christmas music? But I would want to see like I want to see a stage version of it because I want them to keep in the best things happen while you're dancing. And what is it? There's a number where she's in this yellow dress and there's like this, she gets like a tap number and it is literally the most amazing dance sequence. I can watch it over and over and over and over and over again. And then Carousel because of the Dream Ballet with her daughter and I just, I could just watch and listen to that score so much. It would be a toss up of White Christmas and Carousel. But I know it's a problematic show. I know, but it sounds like you need to originate this beautiful dancing role for your next gig on Broadway has got to be this originating a dancing role.

[46:43] Alan Seales: People always ask me what my dream role is and I always say it hasn't been written because they don't write roles for women that can act and sing and dance the shit out of anything. They don't write roles like that anymore. There's a Neon West Side Story, but they don't write roles like that. So we need to get on that. I'm going to try and do it myself, but we need to get on that.

[47:05] Mikayla Renfrow: You have the best point that I've heard in a very long time. You're right. You are so right. They write it for men, but they don't write it for women and it's frustrating.

[47:19] Alan Seales: You're right. Did they used to do that before? I know we probably should wrap up, but now I'm thinking about this. I feel like Singing in the Rain had that had a pretty substantial role.

[47:27] Mikayla Renfrow: She doesn't really sing that much. There's always those numbers where you can dance and sing at the same time. The melody can't be too jarring, but I want a role where there's drama and there's comedy. You got to have the chops. She gets a big ballad to sing her heart out, but then when the ballad is not enough, she breaks out into a ballet and it's a lover's ballet. I have visions.

[48:01] Alan Seales: Oh my goodness. That is so cool. Combine, take some Sutton Foster roles, throw in a little Ariana DuBose roles, and then just top it off with some Michaela.

[48:21] Mikayla Renfrow: You're good to go, man. That's great. Some Philippa Soo, Sutton Foster, Ariana DuBose conglomeration. That is my dream. Basically, all the powerhouse, badass women from Hamilton. Let's just go with that.

[48:33] Alan Seales: Yeah. If we could just put all the sisters together but mix in the bullet track, that is my track.

[48:39] Mikayla Renfrow: Look at all the other women. Amber Artelino was in Hamilton too, right? She's incredible.

[48:45] Alan Seales: Incredible, right? Triple threat and quadruple if you throw in social media because you got to be good on social media these days too.

[48:55] Mikayla Renfrow: Speaking of which, where can we find you? On the socials.

[48:59] Mikayla Renfrow: You can find me on Instagram. That's the most consistent social media app I use. I just got on Twitter, but last time I was on Twitter, I was, I think, in high school and I was scared to use it. I'm slowly getting back on Twitter, but there's really not much there. I would say Instagram is the best way to see what's going on. Are you on Tiki Talks?

[49:21] Mikayla Renfrow: I am, but it's mostly just videos of my garden at the moment. But if that's the content you want, then... I'm a gardener. I love... I got heavy into aeroponics and hydroponics. I dove down that road because I wanted... In New York, I wanted dirtless gardening.

[49:39] Alan Seales: I'm definitely going to follow your plant talk.

[49:41] Mikayla Renfrow: My garden Tik Tok? Yeah. That is definitely where it's starting. There's going to be some theater here and there, but it's going to be a garden Tik Tok. You should do some stop motion with vegetables or something you're growing so you can reenact famous dance scenes with your plants.

[50:01] Alan Seales: There you go. Best of both worlds. That is the best idea. Okay, I'll get started.

[50:05] Mikayla Renfrow: Alright. You get more of me at thetheaterpodcast.com. Leave a rating and a review. Hit those five stars like I'm an Uber driver wherever you're listening now. This has been edited by Well Run and Hoodlum Productions. Jukebox the Ghost gave us intro and outro music. And Mikaela Renfro, thank you. Oh my god. This has been such a fun conversation. Oh my goodness. Thank you.

[50:27] Mikayla Renfrow: Take a deep breath, make the world a little colorful.