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[0:01] Alan Seales: Hey everyone, welcome to The Theatre Podcast. Intimate, personal conversations with the industry's biggest names. I'm your host, Alan Seales, and today's guest is Javi, Sexy Hamilton, better known as Javier Muñoz. Oh my goodness, this guy is so honest and so raw and truthful about so much that happens in his life. And I don't know if anybody really knows about this much, but he was diagnosed with cancer during his run, during the premiere of Hamilton when it was transferring over to Broadway and everything. And just this incredible ride in an incredibly hard time in his life that he opens up with. And we get into that near the end of the episode, so make sure you stick through to hear that conversation because it is so just beautiful.

And Javi, thank you for sharing. If you're listening to this now, just amazing, amazing, amazing. And I've met him a couple of times on the red carpets. And now this is the first time I've had the opportunity to sit down with him for more than a couple of minutes and just talk. And like the light and the energy and the optimism, I don't know, giggliness, if that's a word, the giggliness he brings with him is contagious. And I truly enjoyed just really getting to know him in this interview, and I hope you will too. So find me online, Instagram, Twitter, TikTok, and Facebook. Leave me a rating and a review. Those five stars always help, or four, or three, whatever. Just leave a rating. Make yourself known. Everybody, now, please enjoy this episode with Javier Muñoz. Here you go. One, two, three.

[1:43] Alan Seales: Our guest today is probably one of the coolest dudes that I know. He's got stage credits that include the 2006 New York Musical Theatre Festival Off-Broadway hit All Is Love, In the Heights, and of course, Hamilton, where he took over for Lin-Manuel and earned the title of Sexy Hamilton. TV and film credits include, of course, the 2021 release of In the Heights, Blindspot, Odd Mom Out, Shadow Vaults, Eureka, Central Park, Quantico, and Full Frontal with Samantha Bee. He is now starring alongside Jesse Mueller in My Heart Says Go, a musical concept album now available streaming everywhere that everybody just needs to stream. Holy shit. Javier Muñoz, thank you for coming on The Theatre Podcast.

[2:25] Javier Muñoz: Thank you for having me. That was the best introduction ever.

[2:30] Alan Seales: Yes. Score. That's what I'm all about. I spend my entire day writing one paragraph and then we freeform it. All right. So we were just chatting before we started recording that you're up in the Heights. You still live in the Heights. I used to live in Washington Heights. And for those who don't know the New York City area, Washington Heights is essentially a different country for as long as it takes to get there on the train sometimes.

[2:51] Javier Muñoz: This is actually true. If the A train is not running and you're on local or you're taking that local bus up, you may as well just walk.

[3:05] Alan Seales: Yeah. You may as well just not go home that night.

[3:07] Javier Muñoz: Exactly. I had a girl once who just broke up with me simply because she lived in the East Village and I was in Washington Heights. And she's like, it's too far away. No way.

[3:21] Alan Seales: Yeah. Too far away. She just wanted that five to 10 minute cab ride and just didn't work.

[3:28] Javier Muñoz: So you dodged a bullet.

[3:28] Alan Seales: I think I did. I think I did. I'm pretty good where I am now. But you grew up in that area too, right? Or did you grow up in the New York area though?

[3:40] Javier Muñoz: Yeah. I grew up in Brooklyn.

[3:41] Alan Seales: Oh, Brooklyn, right?

[3:42] Javier Muñoz: Yeah. So the neighborhood I grew up in is East New York, Brooklyn. And I grew up specifically in the Linden projects of East New York in the 1970s and 80s with the highest crime rate in all of New York City.

[3:56] Alan Seales: Wow.

[3:57] Javier Muñoz: Yeah.

[3:57] Alan Seales: Wow. Wow. Wow. So growing up there though, around, I mean, were you experiencing crime? Were you seeing crime? And then like the next natural progression is like, oh, of course I'm going to be on Broadway.

[4:09] Javier Muñoz: No. I mean, it was a violent childhood. Yes, it was. It was, you know, the 80s were rough in New York and we were at the heart of it. So all the gang stuff that happened and all the crazy stuff that was literally, that was my everyday as a kid. But, you know, we got out of there when I was about 12 and moved around all over the place. But no, theater didn't enter my life until high school. I had no designs on anything creative, artistic, theatrical until my freshman year in high school. I was a science nerd.

[4:46] Alan Seales: Really?

[4:47] Javier Muñoz: Oh, yes.

[4:48] Alan Seales: I would say still are, because that type of way of thinking does not just simply go away.

[4:53] Javier Muñoz: That's very true. Yeah. You are accurate. Yeah, absolutely. Totally.

[4:59] Alan Seales: What are you into? Okay, complete non sequitur. What are you into that's totally like the nerdiest science thing you can think of? Because I just attended a talk the other day on quantum computing, which like I still am excited about. Like that kind of stuff really makes me happy.

[5:17] Javier Muñoz: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I think, I don't know, like the nerdiest thing, I guess.

[5:23] Alan Seales: Nerdy is a good thing, by the way.

[5:24] Javier Muñoz: Yeah. Oh, my God. Yeah, of course it is. I'm proud.

[5:29] Javier Muñoz: I don't know. I don't know what the nerdiest thing would be. I guess right now... I like reading about the fourth dimension and quantum computing.

[5:38] Alan Seales: Well, I mean, string theory, sure. And all that stuff is pretty fascinating. And it's also entertaining, right? Because there's like endless possibilities when you're talking about those theories. But I think actually the nerdiest thing right now for me is... And maybe it's not so nerdy, but it's actually just our planet. It's actually us. It's really sort of the investigations that we have, the explorations, I should say, that we have of environments on other planets, and just learning how that compares to us and where we are right now is pretty fascinating to me.

[6:12] Alan Seales: That's great. There's so much we don't know, actually. And I was involved in another interview a few days ago about somebody who was saying that trans people and reproductive rights and so many things are in the news, not necessarily for a good way, but it is good in that we are now starting to talk about this on a wide scale in a way that we need to. But women's rights, reproductive health specifically, even female doctors coming out of med school are given a day, a week, sometimes a month on female reproductive history or whatnot. And if that, and they're like, all right, go out and do things, right? And I can't remember any clue about why I just brought that up. But wait, what were we talking about before that? I was talking about the environment.

[7:08] Javier Muñoz: Oh, yeah, yeah. But I'm connected to this through people in the theater industry who are very passionate about it. So case in point, that there are still people like yourselves who just dig this kind of thing. You got to have a hobby that's not identifying yourself with your job, right? There's got to be more to you than just your art.

[7:31] Alan Seales: Yeah. I mean, your art is pretty much everything, but your life has to be full.

[7:35] Javier Muñoz: Right. Well, what do you do? What do you do for that fullness outside of performing? Because performing is a certain bucket. You've got other buckets that have to get filled then.

[7:42] Javier Muñoz: Yeah, it's pretty wild. I used to joke when I was younger, in my 20s, just starting out, that I had to diversify my portfolio, so to speak. I had to make sure that I had my foot in a lot of doors, to make sure I wouldn't stop working. But in truth, what I was doing was just really exploring all the things that I was fascinated by and into. And it's all creative. So I guess, creatively, artistically, it's not just theater. I'm doing film, I'm doing TV, I'm writing a book, I'm doing voiceover work. I am trying to resist the urge to start a podcast, because it's really tempting, but I just don't want to-

[8:39] Alan Seales: I happen to know a guy.

[8:41] Javier Muñoz: I know. I know.

[8:42] Alan Seales: I happen to know a guy, I think, who could help you get set up.

[8:46] Javier Muñoz: You know, that's got to wait. It's got to wait. I'm trying to do too much right now. But I mean, there's a whole plethora of stuff I'm doing creatively. But outside of that, you know, then comes my activism, and my activism is really deep and goes for decades. And that's on HIV AIDS, that's on LGBTQ protections and rights and equality, that's on arts and education, that's on literacy. I mean, it's like, I mean, I'm all over the place with that stuff. But that also has- that actually came before my creative life was my activism. But then, just like me, like, I don't know, I'm just- I'm a really friendly guy who just wants to be around people. So I'm always with my friends, I'm always trying to make plans with them. I mean, and it's nothing crazy, just like, a cup of coffee and sit on a bench and like, make sure that I'm connected to the people in my life. Because that's- you just have to have a full, well-rounded life. You cannot make your art everything.

[9:52] Alan Seales: Was- was the pandemic hard from that, from being like being isolated?

[9:57] Javier Muñoz: Lord have mercy. The pandemic was excruciating, to tell you the truth. You know, thank goodness for Zoom and being able to at least connect with people that way. But not having physical contact was horrendous. But I also personally was going through a breakup with my partner, who I was living with at the time. And- and we did end the relationship while in lockdown. And I moved into the spare room, and it was quite an experience. So, yeah, it was a little difficult. It was a little difficult.

[10:33] Alan Seales: Wow. So, okay. So much of that. I want to back up again, though. High school, high school, when you discovered you could- you had a love for theater, or what was that moment? Did you see something, or a person, or a performance? What made- what made it click?

[10:46] Javier Muñoz: So- so, like I was saying. So- so, Brooklyn in- in 1989, which is my freshman year in high school, is an incredibly, you know, rough and violent place. And the smart thing to do was to travel in groups and numbers. And so, my friends were in the theater program. My high school had a planetarium, and I was there for astrophysics. So, I went- I basically- so that I could not have to go home alone, and certainly not have to go home right after school, because you just did not want to be on the bus right after school. That's when all the craziness happened. You wanted there to be hours between school ending and you actually commuting home. It was a strategy. And so, I would go to the library, and I would hang- hang out there.

I would do my homework. I would do projects, whatever. And then, I would cut to the- the theater lobby of the high school, and wait for my friends in the lobby of the theater. And we'd go home together by bus, or our parent would drive us home, whatever. And I- I mean, weeks, months went by. I never- never set foot in the theater. And there was this one random day, and it's the- you know, during the first half of freshman year. I walk into the theater, and I'm like, you know, I'm gonna sit in the back. I'm gonna wait quietly for my friends, and- and just see what's going on in here. And I, you know, I went in, and they were in tech. They were teching, Annie, get your gun. Sun in the morning, moon at night.

My friends are in the number. They're on stage, in costume. The director's down front, and I'm just sitting in the back, real quiet. The house is dark, and I just felt swept away by it. I'd slid- I could- I can- I can remember the air. It's so clear in my memory what that moment was. Everything about it. Everything about it is so clear in my memory. I was so taken away by it all. And I just said- I just sat there and asked myself, why are you not doing this? And the next musical was The King and I, and I decided to audition. And I got cast as an Amazon guard. I had no lines. I had no lyrics. I sang no songs. And I- and I kid you not, I absolutely knew that this was what I needed to do. This was what I needed to do.

And I changed my focus from astrophysics to theater to drama, and much to the dismay of my family. And- and even my brothers were just like, what are you doing? But I- I did it, and the rest is history.

[13:20] Javier Muñoz: Astrophysics to theater. That- that's one of those moments where in a parallel universe, you've won like Nobel prizes for- for developing cold fusion and traveling to Mars and all that.

[13:33] Alan Seales: Yes. As well as a Tony for writing some great big musical.

[13:38] Javier Muñoz: Right, right. About astrophysics.

[13:39] Alan Seales: There's this one string theory where everything happens.

[13:41] Javier Muñoz: Combine it. Combine it all together. Your next project. You write your book about a musical, about astrophysics, and then podcast the creation of it. There you go. That's everything wrapped all together.

[13:57] Alan Seales: I'd like to visit that dimension.

[14:00] Javier Muñoz: Make it this dimension. That's all. That's just put it out there. Oprah style. There you go. I was reading too that you had actually decided to abandon acting to accept and was about to accept or had accepted a full-time job as a manager at the restaurant 44 and a half in Hell's Kitchen.

[14:18] Javier Muñoz: Wow, you have done your homework. Holy moly. Okay, so yeah, so this is actually a little bit of a lengthy story. And I just want to preface it by saying that my parents are alive and healthy and well. So what happens is it's 2002 I have just met Nike.

[14:36] Javier Muñoz: Exactly. And I'm very open about my, you know, my part of my platform is sharing my HIV status that I've been HIV positive since 2002. And I've been living openly with it since 2005. And it's 2002. I have moved back to New York to help support my parents. Because in the in the year of 2000 to 2004, my parents were both diagnosed with cancer in the same year. Wow. So I moved back with HIV, they both have cancer, we become this sort of like invincible superhero team taking care of each other. And we're going to see each other through this.

[15:20] Javier Muñoz: I, I'm desperately auditioning for everything under the sun. No one gives two craps about me. I'm invisible in this industry in New York at that time. No one sees me. I am not booking anything. And I feel the burden that I feel I'm becoming a burden on my parents financially. And so I quit the business. And I took a job as a general manager of 44 and a half, which I don't think exists anymore. But it was a new restaurant in Hell's Kitchen at the time. And I was so freaking miserable. And not because restaurants are miserable. They're tough, but they're not miserable. But I just wasn't doing what I wanted to be doing or what I knew I should be doing. It wasn't filling buckets.

[16:06] Javier Muñoz: Message after message after message. He just, he needs me to do this, this, this workshop he wants to because he's, you know, workshopping get to get producers involved and such. And I, you know, I just, I cave. I say, you know what, fine. This is my swan song. This is the last thing I'm doing. I have to stay focused on, like, I have health insurance. I have an income. I can help my parents. Like, this is serious. I can't, I can't do this anymore. So, but, you know, okay, we'll do this one last one.

[17:08] Javier Muñoz: So the first day of rehearsal, I am, you know, we're learning music. There's only one actress in the room who I don't know. And she, she's staring at me this whole time. And I'm actually feeling quite uncomfortable. And I get a, I get a message on my pager later that, that night. She is part of the development of a new musical and she just thinks I'd be perfect. They're auditioning for this one character and she just, she just really thinks I would, I would be really perfect for it.

[17:37] Javier Muñoz: And I'm a firm believer in the universe knocking at your door sometimes. And I just was like, you can't ignore this. Like, this is kind of ridiculous. You have to at least talk to her. So I invite her to the restaurant in between lunch and dinner. We sit at a table. She hands me a script and she hands me a CD and tells me to pop it into, you know, my portable Discman, which I have at the time. And, and she wants me to listen to the first track. And I'm listening to the opening number to In the Heights. And it's Lynn wrapping the opening number as Usnavi. And I, I'm just, I listened to the whole thing and I'm, I mean, I'm already blown away. I, at this point, had never heard anyone try to bring legitimate hip hop rap to the stage. I've heard versions and attempts at it that were like, that's not really hip hop. Okay, you know, that's cool.

[18:37] Javier Muñoz: But it just, you know, wasn't, Lynn's authenticity was so clear in that, in that opening number. And I freak, I freaked out. I just, I was floored. And I asked her, can I, can I take the script home? Can I read it? And can I, you know, listen to this and get back to you tomorrow? She says yes. And the next day, that night, I read the script and listen to the whole demo. And, you know, I mean, you know, the show, there's up at this point in our industry, any role that was Latin was thug number one and, you know, drug dealer number five. We were caricatures, we weren't real people in entertainment. And so I'm reading the script, and there's no gangs, and there's no violence. And these, these characters have integrity, and they're hardworking, and they're loving, and it could be my family on this page. And it's, it's like, how can I say no to this?

[19:34] Javier Muñoz: So I absolutely say yes to the audition. The audition is for a character named Lincoln, who would later be cut from the show. Lincoln was Nina's brother. And I go in, it was for two weeks at MTC, it was a two-week development workshop at MTC. I go into the audition, and I book it, but it's, you know, here I am with Lin and Lac and Kiara and Bill, and, you know, it's the whole team. So, Tommy, you know, it's like, it's crazy. And I book the two weeks, and I say yes. And not only is that, you know, the beginning of my friendship, which is the foundation of my working creative relationship with Lin, to then, you know, we create the roles of Usnavi together and the role of Hamilton together. And so that's the birthplace of it. And it starts with our friendship before we build this creative, you know, unique, very unique relationship that we have with each other creatively.

[20:36] Javier Muñoz: But also, my parents come to the final presentation, and we get home. We're living in Coney Island at the time. And they sit me down in the kitchen and they tell me, you can't quit. You can't stop doing this. We'll figure it out. We have to figure it out.

[20:54] Alan Seales: Wow.

[20:55] Javier Muñoz: And it's that whole moment of In the Heights at MTC that brings me back to theatre.

[21:03] Alan Seales: We're going to take a short break. Stay tuned for more of the episode.

[21:06] Javier Muñoz: That is so, so sweet that your parents saw this in you. Like, they could tell. They've got to be able to tell. Like, as a parent myself, I can tell what makes my kids glow, what they're really excited about. And like coming home, not having your buckets filled by managing a restaurant and then coming home after two weeks and feeling like you're on top of the world. Oh, big applause to your parents for pushing you, giving you the permission, I think, to get over that guilt, I guess.

[21:48] Alan Seales: For just feeling like a burden. Because they said, yeah, we'll make it work. We're in it together. I love that. Your parents seem like very, very cool people.

[21:56] Javier Muñoz: It was a turning point in my entire life.

[22:02] Alan Seales: Yeah, everything was. And I've chatted with Lynn once or twice and all the crew, so many people. And there's like, I don't know how to put this any other way, except that everybody loves each other. There's a love and a respect.

[22:25] Javier Muñoz: And it was kind of apparent, like when I was talking with Tommy Kail most recently, I interviewed him for Up Here because, you know, the show on Hulu that just came out. And I interviewed him with Sonia Taya and they had never met before they decided like they'd known each other, respect each other, wanted to work together and never had an opportunity to really get to know each other until Up Here.

[22:46] Javier Muñoz: And the two of them immediately, two peas in a pod, because this is something that Tommy also reiterated when I was talking with him years ago for Freestyle Love Supreme, was that he makes art and is around people who make art because they have to, not because like it's who they are. It's what speaks to their souls. And the way that you just described how you are, you know, not at the restaurant, but in rehearsals and the way that you're collaborating with this whole crew of people, everyone you named off that has created this magic together.

[23:24] Javier Muñoz: Yes.

[23:25] Alan Seales: It seems like a family and a support system that just will not go away. And for very good reason.

[23:33] Javier Muñoz: You're 100% correct that we are still in each other's lives. We still, I mean, we come together for funerals and birthdays and weddings. And, you know, these folks are, it's beyond what we did within the Heights. It's life. You know, I still have this, you know, group chat with Kiara and Lynn and I. You know, we, the crux of it is we share photographs of sunsets with each other, but then we're also just like BSing with each other all the time. But it's like we just, you know, it's this really sort of nurturing, loving thing that we just have had for years at this point. Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's true.

[24:17] Alan Seales: What does it feel like when, when you're, you know, you've, you've created this masterpiece, you've helped develop In the Heights, which has just gone on to set the groundwork for so many amazing things like Hamilton, which you also were a part of, which has also set the groundwork for so many amazing things. But to have In the Heights come back as a big budget, in your face, you can't ignore this because it's a story that has to be told movie that, like, what is, what, do you remember when you first heard that that was coming all back?

[24:47] Javier Muñoz: Oh, this is what I love is that about this is Kiara and Lynn waited. They the movie was supposed to be made when the musical was still out. No kidding. They really held on to the integrity of the piece they wanted to wait and fight and and not just do the money but like wait to do it right. And they did and they really did. And I remember the buzz because we, you know, the original cast got, Alex Lack, got us together to record the music, to record all those backing vocals. I mean, of course, everyone in the movie is singing, obviously, but a lot of the group stuff was us, you know, singing ensemble. And, and which is where I started, right. So, so it brought us all back together way before the news broke about the film and, and we got to record at the Baryshnikov Center, which used to be 37 Arts, which is where we debuted In the Heights off Broadway, so we got to go back in that building and record there and it was I mean, I can't even tell you it.

It's such that that show and that experience. It's just unlike anything I've ever experienced in my entire life. We all every last one of us and I don't think you get this all the time. I really don't. But we all were so in love with what we were doing.

[26:22] Javier Muñoz: And it wasn't just because we were, you know, performing or, or just getting to do what we do or just having a good time. Like, no, we were in love with the mission of this story of the representation of the hopefulness of it, the possibility of it, what it could do, what it would, the potential of its impact. We were so in love with it, and would have done anything for it. And it was across the board, there's no one who would say otherwise. But it just also happened that we all were in love with each other, too. So it was just, it was all just one incredible mission stemming from our hearts that poured into that, to think that it was going to be a feature film was just like, what is happening? You know, and, and we were such a thrill to get back together and record together. And, and I don't know if you know the Easter eggs. Do you know some of the Easter eggs in the film with the vocals? And the opening number when?

[27:23] Javier Muñoz: I've never been north of 96th Street. That's Janet. That's Janet DeCaul's voice coming out of that actress on the screen. And in the club scene, when that ginormous Dominican guy comes up to Vanessa and is like, "Hey, you, who, you, who, me," that's my voice coming out of his mouth. It was so random. Literally, Lin texted me, it was some group chat that Chiara, Lin, and I have. He didn't know. Lack knew, but Lin didn't know. And he was listening and was like, "Wait a minute. That's me." And so he's texting me and Chiara's like, "Listen, this is you." I was like, "What is happening?" This is during lockdown, of course. But yeah, that film, I couldn't be more proud of it. Anthony was so perfect.

So unbelievably perfect. Everyone in that cast was just, oh my God, like, a complete dream. And then to get to meet them, we got to meet each other in a recording studio. And it was a love fest. You know what I mean? Like, it's so beautiful to see how the impact of that musical on them. Right? The stories of when they saw the musical, when they came and saw the show, saw us on stage, you know, and then here they are full circle getting to do the film and then meeting us, and we get to meet them and lift them up. And it was, you know, and I follow all of them. They're all so beautiful and wonderful, doing incredible things. And it's that thing, you know, Priscilla always told us when we started rehearsal, she goes, she would always tell us, "Years from now, you have no idea what impact this is going to be on people.

And they're going to stop you and tell you and share this with you." You know, and she was so right. She just, because that's her elder experience at the time, knowing that what this show would be for our community. And she was so right. It was one of those moments where we're watching these young artists take it and run. And yet they know where it came from. They know what we did. They know how we sacrificed. They know how hard it was to get that thing done. And they paid homage to it. And then they took it and went even further. And it's one of my favorites. I watched that movie 10 to 12 times. The night we got the, all of us who did the recording, we got a trailer link. So we got to watch the film before it got released.

I easily watched it like 10 to 12 times in the same night, one after the other. I could not stop. I was in tears and joy. Yeah. Oh, God, the way that, yeah, you're right. The way that story, again, has influenced, has touched, and, and has changed just the, the industry, like it's just been this domino effect of everyone coming together in the perfect way. And I think at the perfect time in society as well, because this is when social media all of a sudden just exploded. So you've got, you've got a show for the, for the first time is incorporating music that younger people typically aren't going to hear. So it's a gateway into wanting to watch it, wanting to listen and getting you into the, into the stage door or into the, the, the door of the house.

So you can go sit down and see these things. And again, inspiring a new generation of, of writers and creators, which now I think is the perfect segue to, to talk about My Heart Says Go, because now this came out of the mind of a college student.

[31:14] Javier Muñoz: Yes, it did. Who was probably in middle school or high school, early high school for Hamilton. So I just talked with Jesse Mueller about the album. It just, you're both so incredible in it, but she, she was describing it and I'm going to use this. She described it as sort of like this perfect combination of, of Lynn and, and Jonathan Larson. I love that. I love that. That's really beautiful. That's well put. Yeah. Right. So you, yeah. So I guess, first off, having this type of work come to you and, and the offer of you saying, you know, you're listening to this, or I don't even know how you, how you got involved with the project. You can answer that, but like, was it, did they send you a thumb drive?

Was it an email with, you know, or was it messenger owl with a CD on the, on the talent? Could you imagine? Yeah. That's how they, that's how they give you all the casting announcements for Harry Potter. It's all messenger owl. But this, this is, this, my heart says go is the literal embodiment of what you, two of the biggest things in our industry that you helped to create now have created something brand new. That is just beautiful. So beautiful. It's completely beautiful. I, I, this, Jorge is brilliant. He's brilliant. And I've told him, so I, this came at me. So this was, this happened to be one of, you know, the random days where I just truly had nothing to do, like, no self tapes, no coming auditions, no project, you know, that I have to be prepping for, like, it was a random day where I just had nothing.

I could literally just click off and relax. I was laying on the couch, I was watching some TV, and I get an email from my reps. The software came in, and I'm reading through. And in the breakdown of it, it just sparked my curiosity already. Just because of the format that they were very straightforward with that it would not be production, it would be a cash recording. And the whole point is to make this affordable, you know, licensing costs for theatres anywhere are out of this world. And if you're trying to produce theatre for locally, you know, the money you've got to raise for that is astronomical. So the point of this was create beautiful, incredible art that can be affordably done anywhere by anyone, you know.

And I was hooked by that. I was really curious, like, what is this? What is this? And it also, you know, the email also sparked my interest because Jorge and Matt, you know, created this in college at Notre Dame. And so I immediately was just like, well, that's like Lin when he, you know, started nights, you know, in college. Wesleyan, you know, so I was like, huh. So I go ahead and I press play on the they sent me a handful of songs to listen to. And the breakdown of the character of the father, and, you know, what the what the what the whole sort of plotline would be. And so I popped the first song in. And I kid you not, this is this is this is the honest truth. When we were at MTC, and we were I was first starting to work with Lin, Lin would send us music via MP3s on email.

And it was always Lin like singing along and rapping along to, gosh, I forgot the music program. Apple had way back when. Cameras garage garage back. Yeah, yeah. So like a garage band breakdown of like, whatever song he'd written for rehearsal the next day, you know, what changes and such. So I'm so used to my, my impression, my first and only impression of Lin is having my headphones and sitting on my computer, you know, that used to sit in front of a window in my bedroom in Coney Island and, and hearing him, you know, sing a melody, and I'd have to like, break that down, get ready for rehearsal, practice it. That's my first introduction to working with him, you know, is that's how he sent the music.

And I'm listening to Jorge, and I'm listening to the cadence in his rap, I'm listening to the inner rhymes, I'm listening to the, the percussiveness I'm listening to the, to just all of it, all of the technicality of what he's written. And I'm literally brought right back to that moment to that bedroom, sitting at that desk listening to Lin. I got so emotional. I got so moved by by by what he evoked in me by what he evoked in me from just the beginning of that song. I didn't finish listening. I literally wrote back Yes. Wow. That's like, this is, I'm meant to be doing this. This is not by accident. This is the universe again. This is I gotta I gotta meet this kid and I gotta do this with him. I didn't even bother listening to the rest of the songs. So I think a few days before rehearsal when I started practicing.

[36:30] Javier Muñoz: We're gonna take a short break. Stay tuned for more of the episode.

[36:33] Alan Seales: That's insane. And I mean, it's just cool. You just know, you just know.

[36:45] Javier Muñoz: Well, besides just knowing it's, it's, it's the influence I could hear it. I could hear that Lin was so important to his ear and his heart and his art, his artist. And it just it, it made so much sense to just Yep. And the story, the story to its first generation college student, who wants to be a singer songwriter and is defying his father, because his father wants him to go to med school. Like, yes, there's got to be some sort. Was there a personal relation to that? Or is I mean, it seems that's oddly specific.

[37:17] Javier Muñoz: Oh, for Jorge. Yeah. I don't know if it was Jorge or Matt, but I believe so. Yeah, there is a there is a personal thing going on there. But what was so interesting to me is Lincoln, the plot line for Lincoln that no one ever got to know in in the heights was the conflict with his father. Really? His father wanted Lincoln to take over the taxi dispatch. Right? He wanted to be a singer and songwriter. And so when I saw that break, and I was like, Oh, this is this is crazy. This is your role coming back for you in a completely different way.

[37:55] Alan Seales: Right? Only this time I get to be the dad. Which is amazing. It's awesome.

[38:01] Javier Muñoz: That's so cool. Well, my heart goes my heart says go is available now everywhere you stream music and I've listened to it through twice. Not gonna lie. Right? I know. It's just good.

[38:15] Alan Seales: So I want to I want to go to a serious note before we kind of wrap up here a little bit. And because you talked about being HIV positive and you're activists about very, very vocal about HIV and AIDS. And then also, you're a cancer survivor as well. And you were doing you get your diagnosis during Hamilton, right?

[38:33] Javier Muñoz: Yeah. What was so tell us about that? That period? You know, no one ever asked me about this. I have, I have purposefully and I'm not saying I won't have one answer this, I will answer this. But this is this is something I I'm still not at peace with. Let's put it that way. In the world of cancer survivors being called warriors and and I and I get it. I've never felt that way. And I still don't feel that way. And I still have a whole journey with my own body that I'm still going through over that. So I shy away from, you know, sharing a lot with it, in terms of it. But what I can share is that Hamilton was, gosh, I don't even know where to begin. I was already in the throes of the, you know, the tidal wave that Hamilton was.

And, and, and we, I felt like we were all just holding on by the seat of our pants, because it was moving so fast and getting so big. And I remember, I remember the moment of our first preview at the public, and I was standing across the street, taking in the building, and just thinking to myself, after tonight, it doesn't belong to us anymore. It's going to belong to everybody. And what is that going to be like? Wow. Like, I just had that moment with myself, because I just felt like the show is incredible. I just have no idea what the impact is going to be and cut to our Broadway production. And we've already exploded off Broadway. Our opening night on Broadway was the most ridiculous star studded event of the year.

I mean, it was bonkers. And our opening night party and everything just everything felt really, you sort of were just caught in the in the in the wave, you know, in the riptide and just, just going with it so that you don't drown because there's a lot coming at you at all times. And but it was exciting. I say that in like a thrilling, exciting way it was like nothing else. And it really had this feeling like we were on top of the world.

[41:36] Javier Muñoz: To one of the days, one of the day medications were just breaking through and I was transitioning from the combination treatment to one a day treatment and it was a horrific transition. I missed such a multitude of shows. I couldn't perform. I could barely get out of bed. Sometimes the side effects from things were so severe and realistically, you know, I couldn't sustain performing. They had to let me go and I was still contracted, but I just physically couldn't do it and that's when I left. You know, I basically they were replacing me for the sake of the good for the sake of the show and, you know, it took a long time for me to sort of be able to separate my personal experience from that in my heart from that versus the actual business of that, right?

The show, I couldn't sacrifice the show for my health. Like I couldn't function in this process of trying to find a medication to keep me alive essentially and that had to come first. Right? So when I found myself in a similar situation with Hamilton, I hid it. I hid it from everybody. I hid it from my family. I hid it from my friends. I hid it from the cast. My behavior was erratic and irregular and that was all coming from treatment and I was exhausted and, you know, coming up with excuse after excuse with everybody just to not have to talk about it and not let anyone know a single person know anything like I could do this, I can do this, I can do this until I couldn't, until I absolutely couldn't and I called my stage manager and he was the first person that I told and then it was a snowball from there and I mean, I had surgery and the first person, the very first person I had to tell was my brother because he had to be there to take me home but the first person within Hamilton who I called and spoke with was my stage manager and then it would just, you know, went from there and I remember feeling so terrified that I was going to lose Hamilton.

I was going to lose this beautiful experience. I was going to lose all of it and the opposite happened and I mean, everyone was so loving, everyone was so supportive. I was out of my mind through treatment and everything and just trying to function but they supported me through it and saw me all the way through as a cast, as a company from the producers to the creatives to everybody. I mean, I can't tell you how many times our producing team would call me or email me or text me or something and just say, how are you? What do you need? You know, everybody, I mean, Leslie and Betsy and Renee and Chris, you know, and Lynn of course and like just everyone sort of having their moment and it was hard.

It was incredibly hard but it was waiting for me when I was ready and I was healed and I was strong enough and that was a journey and a half and I remember my first show back and I was, it's really, as I mentioned and I preface this with, everything's still pretty raw which is why I don't always talk about it but I remember the final entrance Hamilton has to make as Eliza singing at the front of the stage, the finale and I was off stage and like my emotions beat me to it, right? I was trying to stay in the moment on stage. I have to, I'm not done. You're not done. You have to finish the show. You're like seconds away and I couldn't. I looked at my cast and I just couldn't believe that I was there, that I got through it, that I was alive and that they all had my back.

They were lifting me up throughout the entire show and I couldn't control the tears and I was walking up to Pip and I'm, you know, trying. I was like, Jesus Christ, hold it together. You're not supposed to be crying in this moment, dude. Come on and I couldn't. I just couldn't. It was a struggle and then I, you know, I'm of course looking at Pippa and just seeing her is making me emotional and I turn and the next person I see is Renee and that makes me emotional and I'm like, Jesus Christ, I can't do this and then I have to look at Pippa and I'm finally just crying and, you know, I come to her and I take her hand and I do the whole thing of gesturing her downstage and I just, it's like the hardest battle to keep the tears because it's not what the moment is calling for but the human being of me can't help but be human in that moment and the lights go out and the blackout and I just release it.

It's such a clear moment in my head of just like, I got, I made it. I'm here. I'm okay and I'm here and I made it and this cast and this crew and this building saw me through it and it was a goalpost for me. It was literally through everything. I just kept thinking I want to be back, I want to be back, I want to be back and so to have that moment be what it was, I was back and to this day, I mean, I think I even, I had a sentimental moment a few months ago. I was unpacking some things and Leslie had organized sending meals to my home and the cast collectively donated just to do that and the meals would show up in these bags in front of my doorstep and you're supposed to return the bag the next, you know, leave the bag out so they could take the bag and bring your fresh meals and I took two of them.

I took two bags and I held on to them because I wanted to remember what my cast had done and it ended up that those bags were what I would use. I would sit in a chair like sitting up at one point was like a big deal so as I was, you know, strength, getting stronger to be able to sit up, I would take these empty bags, the two of them and I would do arm curls with them or shoulder presses with them or like, you know, pretend I was using them as weights because in my head, it was progress, it was getting stronger and then as, you know, when it dawned on me that the empty bag was really light, I would put some socks in it or like some underwear and stuff and like that as weight and I was, my whole mental game was like, you know, I'm building back, I'm building back and I moved into this apartment that I'm in now last year and I was unpacking something and I found the bags, I came across the bags and it moved me to reach out to Leslie and send him a message and we just had another exchange of gratitude and love because they all were pretty extraordinary, really extraordinary and I mean from all of our producers, all of our creatives, all the crew and the cast, it was beautiful. Thank you, really thank you for sharing.

[49:39] Alan Seales: Yeah, absolutely. I'm gonna sit with this for a moment.

[49:47] Alan Seales: All right, so we'll wrap up here with three closing questions I like to ask everybody. The first one is very simply is what motivates you?

[49:58] Javier Muñoz: God, that's a great question. That's not simple. What motivates me? I think my curiosity motivates me. I got involved in and this is where the science and the theater arts relate, connect. Curiosity, exploration. I'm not finished asking questions and I just, I mean my whole point of being a performer is I never want to play characters that are one-dimensional or all the good guys, you know. I want to play the characters that are complex and difficult to understand and have light and dark all at the same time because that to me is real, that is me, that's who I am. I'm all over the map. You can find me one day, you know, posting meditation posts and the next day I am swearing like, you know, like the bad words are coming out through my fingers and I can't control it because something's happened and I'm pissed, you know, and that's real and that's me and I want to tell stories that ask, that offer the audience a chance to explore that within themselves, that maybe they walk out feeling a little closer to parts of themselves that they don't really want to look at but are there. And so that, I think that's what motivates me. I'm not done asking those questions and seeking those answers and what else are we about. I'm not done.

[51:37] Alan Seales: Hey, I like that. I'm not done. Yes. I'm not done. That's the t-shirt.

[51:44] Alan Seales: All right, next question then. What advice would you give to your younger self and younger people listening now starting out down a similar path?

[51:47] Javier Muñoz: I would say my, the one thing that took me forever to learn, my piece of advice is please be gentle with yourself. Like there, I'm all about working hard. I'm all about earning everything. There's nothing in my life I haven't earned. Nothing. I earned every single thing I have achieved. I put myself through NYU alone. I did that. Like there's nothing that was handed to me ever. And I'm all about that hard work. But what I really believe is the worst thing is while you're in the throes of whatever you're in the throes of, please take a breath and be gentle with yourself. Please be kind with yourself. There's going to be plenty of energy out there every day you leave your home that wants to silence you or make you small or defeat you or stop you in your tracks or discourage you. Don't be that energy to yourself. Be kind, be gentle, be your biggest freaking cheerleader.

[52:50] Alan Seales: All right, last question. Hardest one. If you could only see one show for the rest of your life but you can see it as many times as you want, what would you see?

[53:02] Javier Muñoz: In the Heights. No question. There's no question.

[53:11] Alan Seales: All right, where can we find you online?

[53:16] Javier Muñoz: You know, I'm still on Twitter every now and then, maybe like a full moon, you'll find me on Twitter. And that's at J Munoz actor. But I'm really that's such a hot mess these days that I'm just focused on Instagram. And that's Javier M. Official.

[53:28] Javier Muñoz: Javier M. Official.

[53:34] Javier Muñoz: Sexy Hamilton. Javier M. Official.

[53:37] Javier Muñoz: Lord have mercy. I've decided that Sexy Hamilton is like my material girl. It's like Madonna to this day is so-called material girl. I'm forever just going to be Sexy Hamilton. I'm going to be like 90 with one hair on my head and 800 pounds. And I'm going to be like Sexy Hamilton. That's me. That's me. That's me.

[53:57] Alan Seales: Well, thank you, Javier. God, it's been so great to be able to just sit here for an hour and shoot the shit. You're incredible and you're amazing. And again, thank you for sharing your story. I know that was not easy, but hopefully it will help to get some others through something they may be going through, too.

[54:15] Javier Muñoz: Yes, I would love that. Thank you for having me, man. Thank you for having me.

[54:18] Alan Seales: Everybody, thanks for listening to this phenomenal episode with Javier Muñoz. Make sure to find me online, Instagram, Twitter, Facebook and TikTok. Leave a rating, leave a review. Make sure to hit those five stars. Tell your friends next to you, hey, man, I just listened to this great episode with Javier Muñoz on The Theatre Podcast. Check it out. Music by Jukebox the Ghost. See you next time.