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[0:00] Alan Seales: Welcome to another episode of The Theatre Podcast. Intimate personal conversations with theatre's biggest names. I am Alan Seales.

[0:10] Jillian Hoffman: And I'm Jillian Hoffman. How you doing?

[0:14] Alan Seales: I'm so great. Why are you great?

[0:18] Jillian Hoffman: Because we just launched a Patreon campaign.

[0:20] Alan Seales: Because we just launched a Patreon! Is it a Patreon campaign or a Patreon?

[0:25] Jillian Hoffman: I believe it is a Patreon because it's ongoing. A campaign has an end date. And we will never end. Disclaimer, don't hold me to anything I say. Hopefully, if we get enough supporters on Patreon, then we won't have to end, we can possibly do more episodes, we can do more great content, give you more access to people and the shows you want to know about. And plus, it just helps us, you know, pay our editor and the graphic changes for the takeovers are not free.

[0:44] Alan Seales: And speaking of takeovers... Speaking of takeovers, nice segue. This is now May, which is now going to be brought to you by The Prom, which was just nominated for seven Tony Awards, including Best Musical. The episode here with Josh Lamon. He is Sheldon in The Prom and man, what a unique guy.

[1:02] Jillian Hoffman: We love Josh. We actually, you'll find out in the episode, but we've done some work with Josh in the past. You'll find out all about it. And Josh is someone who you may think you know him. And it turns out you really don't. And that's really a universal thing. You may think somebody is one thing and you get to know them more and you see there's different sides of them. And he is just so, so wonderful and has been through so much and yet is still here and standing tall.

[1:34] Alan Seales: He owns it too. He owns every bit of it. And I respect him. And I've known him for a little while now. And every time I meet him, like I learn something a little bit different and new.

[1:43] Jillian Hoffman: Nifrent.

[1:44] Alan Seales: Did I say nifrent?

[1:45] Jillian Hoffman: You did. And I'm coining that term.

[1:48] Alan Seales: Nifrent, yes.

[1:49] Jillian Hoffman: Nifrent.

[1:50] Alan Seales: There's something nifrent about Josh. But gosh, yeah, he owns it. He stands tall. He's literally lived at a crack house, literally had his life in danger by an abuser relationship, come out of it a bigger person, a better person. And the message he tries to get across, though, was very inspirational.

[2:22] Jillian Hoffman: I don't think he's, but I don't think he intends to be inspirational.

[2:27] Alan Seales: No.

[2:28] Jillian Hoffman: I think it's just-

[2:29] Alan Seales: No, I think the most inspirational people don't.

[2:30] Jillian Hoffman: Yeah.

[2:31] Alan Seales: They don't intend to be inspirational.

[2:32] Jillian Hoffman: And he's the prime example of you can decide what you want your life to be and nobody can stop you.

[2:44] Alan Seales: And just a fair warning for those who are easily offended by adult themes or offensive language. Josh is full of it. So full of offensive languages and adult themes, but man, it's worth it.

[2:55] Jillian Hoffman: May not be suitable for children.

[2:57] Alan Seales: Yeah.

[2:58] Jillian Hoffman: Or depending if you have a theater kid, it may be very suitable for children.

[3:03] Alan Seales: Everybody head over to patreon.com slash the theater podcast and check out the tiers for less than your average Starbucks cup of coffee. You can get your foot in the door and just help us out. Gosh, we have so many levels for so many different options. Getting your name in the show notes, getting shout outs on the show. We actually have a level where you can record this reflection with us.

[3:20] Jillian Hoffman: I bet you want to do that.

[3:23] Alan Seales: We have a tier where you can come to New York and have dinner and a show with us. So that would be kind of fun. We'd love to meet you and see a show of your choice because who doesn't love seeing shows?

[3:37] Jillian Hoffman: All right. Now, everybody, please enjoy this episode with Josh Lamon.

[3:49] Alan Seales: A man of many talents, a man of many voices, a man of many lives. I'm currently sitting here with Josh Lamon, who is currently Sheldon in The Prom on Broadway that was just nominated for seven Tony nominations, including Best Musical. How are you doing?

[4:04] Josh Lamon: Hi, Alan. I'm great. How are you?

[4:06] Alan Seales: You have the best smile.

[4:08] Josh Lamon: Thanks. It's true. Listeners at home, you can even hear how beautiful my smile is.

[4:14] Alan Seales: You can. You can. When people smile into an audio recording device, you can hear it.

[4:20] Josh Lamon: Well, I also just have a nasally voice and that just makes people think of smiles, I think.

[4:25] Alan Seales: Really?

[4:26] Josh Lamon: I think. I don't know.

[4:27] Alan Seales: Because if I talk like this, you wouldn't think that I'm smiling.

[4:30] Josh Lamon: Do you have any other voices?

[4:33] Alan Seales: I can do Andre De Shields.

[4:34] Josh Lamon: Do it.

[4:35] Alan Seales: It's a sad song. It's a wonderful song. Where am I? That's my Andre De Shields. Give me a Tony.

[4:44] Josh Lamon: All right. You got it. Here you go, Tony.

[4:46] Alan Seales: Thanks.

[4:47] Josh Lamon: I have just cloned it from my Star Trek.

[4:49] Alan Seales: You're such a nerd.

[4:53] Josh Lamon: Not clonerizers, replicators.

[4:54] Alan Seales: I don't know.

[4:55] Josh Lamon: It's been too long since I've seen Star Trek.

[4:57] Alan Seales: I don't know. I watch mature things like Big Brother. Shut up. Shut up. Both of you, shut up. Everybody in this place, in the studio, shut up.

[5:07] Alan Seales: So let's start. Go back. Take me back to your childhood. We start on this podcast with the very beginning.

[5:11] Josh Lamon: Well, on a wintry evening of December 30th, 1980, the stars kissed the moon and I was born.

[5:19] Alan Seales: Okay.

[5:20] Josh Lamon: I'm only two months older than you.

[5:23] Alan Seales: Are you really?

[5:25] Josh Lamon: Yeah.

[5:26] Alan Seales: Okay. Yeah. No, I was born in San Diego. I'm adopted. So my biological mother, who's an amazing woman, I'm very lucky to know her, she found, she, I guess, gave me away to the Lehman family. And that's sort of how the story begins.

[5:48] Alan Seales: It's a sad song.

[5:53] Josh Lamon: We'll get into, I guess, the reconnecting. Did you always know your biological mother?

[5:58] Josh Lamon: No, but I always knew that I was adopted. I had books growing up that were like, you're special because you're adopted. So I thought that I was the shit. Like my sister, who is not adopted, is like, fuck you. I'm adopted. I'm special. You're trash.

[6:16] Alan Seales: And yeah, so I always knew. I didn't find my biological mom until I was 16. I was supposed to wait until I was 18. But it's weird when you're adopted. For me, I always had this urgent need to find my biological family. Even though my adoptive family, they are my family. Sometimes people are like, well, you're real parents. And I'm like, no, these are my real parents. My biological mother is my biological mother. She's never going to be my mom.

[6:48] Alan Seales: Right.

[6:50] Josh Lamon: It's different. But my little brother's adopted and he had zero interest. I think he still has zero interest. And so I guess it's all individual. But yeah, so I hope I'm not rambling.

[7:05] Alan Seales: No, no, no, no. This is very curious to me. I've got another close friend of mine I met with about a month ago. This reminds me, I need to follow up with her. She's adopted. And she did a 23andMe or a MyDNA, whatever it is. And someone reached out on the website and was like, oh, hey, I think you're my second cousin based on DNA match. And she's like, I don't know who these people are. And overnight, she's like, I think this is my biological dad. I think your uncle is my biological father.

[7:38] Josh Lamon: Yeah, I did 23andMe recently as well. I hope you're sponsored by them. Because I don't know my genetic background really all that well. And so it's so weird. I'm like, oh my God, I have all these cousins. And that's what they look like. And that's where they live. And they support what presidential candidate? Yeah, so.

[8:02] Alan Seales: Yeah, she was torn between whether or not she wanted to know and reach out or whether or not like, it's kind of like opening up. It was kind of a wound for her.

[8:12] Josh Lamon: Yeah.

[8:13] Alan Seales: Because she's very much, I guess, her parents are her adopted parents, adoptive parents. And then finding out this other guy who's just here who has a family and children of his own, like, why did you give me up? What's going on?

[8:29] Josh Lamon: No, I mean, it's all confusing. My biological father, he has a daughter, my half sister. And same sort of thing. I was like, why couldn't you have kept it together? But with that, being just a human, I always say, you don't pick your relatives, but you do pick your family. And just because you find these cousins doesn't mean they have to be in your life. Like I'm not in touch with my biological father, but on purpose. But my biological mother, I want her to be a part of my life.

[9:07] Alan Seales: Right. And is she still part of your life?

[9:09] Josh Lamon: Oh, yeah. She lives in California. She's fantastic. I mean, because like really, and also to be able to get to know her and say thank you for doing what you did, because, you know, how selfless is that? If I was like a teenage girl, you know, feeling all alone in the world in an abusive situation, the first thing that I would think is finally I have something that I can love and that's going to love me back. Finally, I have a family. Which a lot of young women choose to do. But she said like, no, I can't ruin your life. Like I can't even support myself.

[9:49] Alan Seales: Is that what happened? She got pregnant young?

[9:50] Josh Lamon: Oh, yeah. And, you know, lived in a, had a very, I guess difficult is the word, home life and was living with my biological father and his family that were not very nice to her. And he had massive drug problem. And, you know, she because she was able to give me a life that she felt she couldn't and that she wanted for me. She was also able to choose herself and put herself through school, find a wonderful man, get married. They have a beautiful life. So it's a it's all a really good thing.

[10:27] Alan Seales: Well, it sounds like you've made peace with it.

[10:30] Josh Lamon: Sure. I mean, there's always going to be a broken bird aspect to me in that regard, because like and I always joke like I have abandonment issues. But like, of course, you know, there's always going to be some issues. But as you get older, life is life and, you know, get into it. That's what you're that's that's your, you know, deck of cards.

[10:52] Alan Seales: Do you think you want to adopt one day?

[10:54] Josh Lamon: No, I don't think I want kids one day at all, though. I do like the idea of fostering older LGBTQ youth. I have a spare room, so I sometimes I kind of honeymoon the idea of like, yeah, if some like trans or queer kid like that's been kicked out, needs a home and maybe doesn't need a parent, but needs like somebody older, like a loving, caring support system that is there to help them sort of leave leave the nest into the adult world. I like that idea.

[11:31] Alan Seales: Yeah, well, knowing what I know about you, I think that resonates with your own childhood a bit as well, because it sounded like you needed that.

[11:39] Josh Lamon: Oh, yeah. I mean, my childhood, like it was not really that fun. Like I did not get along with my family at all from, I don't know, maybe like fifth, sixth grade on, you know, there was just this like, really, I don't know, it always felt very cold, very distant. And it wasn't anybody's fault. But now as adults, like we have relationships. But, you know, everybody's trying the best that they can. And no matter what, if you're a parent, no matter what you do, you're probably going to fuck up your child somehow.

[12:17] Jillian Hoffman: Oh, yeah. I'm worried about that.

[12:19] Alan Seales: Speak to a dad of two boys.

[12:22] Alan Seales: Congratulations.

[12:23] Josh Lamon: Yeah, they're already messed up. At what point did you kind of decide that the home life you were in was not for you? And you kind of left and went on your own. How old were you when you left?

[12:37] Josh Lamon: I was 18. I grew up in San Diego, and the minute I turned 18, I moved to Philadelphia for school. I was a terrible student. Nobody thought that I was going to graduate high school. And my dad came to me, and he was like, Josh, I found a college that will accept you. It's not New York, but it's Philadelphia. And I was just like, yeah, okay. So I filled out the application, and sure enough, they accepted me. And I was like, bye.

[13:16] Alan Seales: And did you know at that point, did you always know that you wanted to perform? Because you went to Philly for performing.

[13:22] Josh Lamon: Yeah. Since I was a toddler, my mom used to take me to go see plays at San Diego Junior Theatre. We had season tickets, front row center. And those are my happiest childhood memories, was seeing shows with her. And they were always so supportive of that. They took me to see everything. Even being a little kid, the National Tour of Follies, which I was like, this is terrible. And now I'm like, this is the best show ever. So yeah, those were my happiest memories. And my mom recognized that. She found a junior theater in her little town and put me in the plays there. And then my first regional job was when I was 10 in Gypsy. And they weren't supportive in the fact that I really wanted to be a child actor. And they let me dabble in regional theaters. But besides that, they were like, you're not getting an agent. We're not schlepping you to LA. And I was insistent that they were ruining my career. And they were like, you're 10, you don't have one.

[14:37] Josh Lamon: Well, it's because of you.

[14:39] Alan Seales: So you moved to Philly. And then I read an article to prep for this that was saying that you actually almost, you did fail your acting class, or you almost failed out of your acting class?

[14:46] Josh Lamon: I failed. Or I shouldn't say I failed, because fuck that, I did not fail. His name was David something. Oh, I wish I could remember his name. God, I hated him. He tried to friend me on Facebook recently. And I was just like, you dick, like, no. But he failed me in my acting studio sophomore year. And, you know, with all due respect, I was a mess. I was at school to party, basically. But I remember going like, I know I'm not Meryl Streep, but I'm not a failure. And it put me into this huge depression spiral. And I was just like, you know what, I'm done with school, I quit. I'll, you know, I'll make it work. And all I need is drugs. And that was like, my mindset. I was so messed up.

[15:46] Alan Seales: You were 19, 20 at this point?

[15:48] Josh Lamon: I was 19. And I dropped out of school, my parents cut me off financially. They were like, oh, well, you want to be in the real world? Welcome to it. And, you know, I was just a disaster. So I got a job at the Starbucks across the street from my school, which was awful, because then all these motherfuckers from my school that were like, totally judging me, not judging me, you know what I mean? And I had to serve all these dicks coffee. You know, even that monster, David. Like, I had to serve him coffee. I was like, this is so poetic.

[16:29] Josh Lamon: And then I got fired from Starbucks. And meanwhile, I'm living in a crack house. Literally, it is a crack house. It was maybe like 150 bucks a month. So it was very affordable. I was living with this guy that I was in a relationship with, who was extremely abusive. I didn't realize it at the time. And we were also like, literally, like so many drugs that, you know, I just I wasn't myself. And I was so in love with him and didn't realize that I was being like that my life was literally in danger. But when I got fired from Starbucks, I found an ad in Philadelphia Weekly looking for phone actors. And I was like, phone actors, that's hilarious. So I called. And they were like, you know, this is a phone sex, you know, operation.

I was like, I figured as much. They're like, and you'd have to be a girl. We do have guys work in the office. But that's the gig. Do you want to come in for an interview? And I was like, yes, I do. As a matter of fact, yes, I do. As a matter of fact, I was just in college for acting. So you're in luck, you know.

[17:49] Josh Lamon: And so I was a phone sex operator in an abusive relationship with a meth head. And then, you know, I got really lucky. I was and this is just to make a long story short. I saw an ad in the paper looking for actors for Media Theatre's production of Jekyll and Hyde starring Andy Karl. How full circle is that? Groundhog Day. Yeah. But I went. I went with a totally fake resume because I didn't have any experience other than like a newsboy and gypsy and, you know, 89 or whatever. And so I went and I even put theater companies that existed not knowing they existed. I was just like Philadelphia Theatre Company. That sounds like a theater. And not knowing that they're like, yeah, it sounds like a theater. It's a major, major theater. And, you know, on the local audition form, they wrote how many EMC points, which is Equity Membership Candidate. I didn't know what EMC meant. I didn't know what the points were. So I put something like 120 points or something obscene.

[19:11] Alan Seales: Don't you only need like 52?

[19:11] Josh Lamon: Yes. Yeah. You know, if I knew then. And so I sang 16 bars. I sang Virginia by Frank Wildhorn because, you know, I don't know. Wait, didn't he write Jekyll and Hyde, Frank Wildhorn?

[19:26] Alan Seales: I think so. Yeah. This is the moment.

[19:26] Josh Lamon: Yeah. Yes. So I sang 16 bars of Virginia and they said thanks. And then about a week later I got a phone call and they were like, hi, we'd like to offer you a role in the ensemble and we would also like to offer you your equity card. And I was like, you're giving me my equity card? They said, well, you know, out of the pool, you have the most experience. So if you would like it, I was like, yes, yes, I would like my equity card. So my career is based on a pyramid of lies, but I was really lucky. I worked there the entire season, most of the entire season. And then literally when things got so bad at home and when I say my life was in danger, I had to move out in the middle of the night. It was one of those kinds of things.

Everything I owned was destroyed by this guy. Mattress took a knife to it. Everything was destroyed. I was homeless, living on a friend's couch who had six roommates, so I wasn't the most welcome. And I just remember going like, fuck, I guess I'll move to New York. And so I moved to New York.

[20:51] Alan Seales: When was this? What year?

[20:52] Josh Lamon: Oh God, that was 2003, I think, about then.

[20:58] Alan Seales: And then for the first few years in New York, I really just lived in New York, but worked in Philadelphia and lived on friends' couches while I did shows down there.

[21:10] Josh Lamon: So I was able to build a resume at all these, like Walnut Street Theater, the Arden Theater Company, which is one of my favorite companies in the world. They really took me in and just gave me show after show after show. And I was able to support myself. And I was able to let go of the whole druggie thing and just sort of be me. And it wasn't easy commuting and living on people's sofas and basements and whatnot. But it gave me a resume and it gave me a real resume. I remember years later looking at my resume and being like, oh, it's actually real.

[21:59] Alan Seales: Does Andy Karl remember meeting you oh so long ago?

[22:05] Josh Lamon: I mean, he remembers me because we've stayed in touch vaguely. When I'd see shows with him, I'd let him know. He was so sweet. He invited me to the reading of Alter Boys, the final reading. And I remember being like, yeah, this is cute. But who's the audience? Joke's on you.

[22:25] Alan Seales: I know. And it blows up. And yeah, and then come Groundhog Day, it was just the happiest of reunions.

[22:37] Alan Seales: That's cool. Andy's great. I love him. When you moved to New York, you said your ex-boyfriend was a meth head. I assume that means that you do a lot of meth too.

[22:49] Josh Lamon: I luckily, for somebody with a very addictive personality, meth made me really violently ill. So I would do it with him, but not often. And so I never got hooked. Thank God, because if I did, I don't think I'd be here today.

[23:07] Alan Seales: Yeah. Because I think you've been quoted as saying theater saved your life.

[23:11] Josh Lamon: Yeah, absolutely.

[23:12] Alan Seales: Like literally saved your life.

[23:14] Josh Lamon: Yeah. I mean, also friends saved my life. I wouldn't have left if it wasn't for my best friend at the time, who was like, Bill is going to kill you tonight if you do not leave. And like, you have to go now. Do not take anything. You can't bring your cat. You have to go or you will die. And it was true.

[23:34] Alan Seales: Wow. Well, I'm glad for your friends. I'm glad you're here.

[23:39] Josh Lamon: Oh, me too. Me too.

[23:40] Alan Seales: Because you have made a lot of difference on the Broadway stage, and a lot of difference to people's lives. And now being in The Prom too, I know that's changed you. The Prom itself, it's based on a true story about two 17-year-old lesbians who kind of get like in the middle of nowhere Midwest, that get ousted from their own prom.

[24:02] Josh Lamon: Yeah.

[24:03] Alan Seales: And like, how has this resonated with you? How has it changed you as a person?

[24:09] Josh Lamon: Well, it resonates. I mean, being like a queer person, and I use the word queer as an umbrella term for the LGBTQ plus community. We grew up in a time which was a lot more liberal than sometimes. But at school, I was still a fag. At school, I was still getting my head slammed into lockers or taste home on a go cart, while they threw rocks at me for being gay. So...

[24:43] Josh Lamon: Like, I know what that feels like. As an adult in 2019, I still don't feel very comfortable holding someone's hand. Just because if you do that, you are actively resisting. You are actively putting yourself at risk if there's a lunatic. And, you know, it's still so relevant. When we did the Macy's Thanksgiving Day Parade, it was the first time there was a same-sex kiss on the broadcast. And I tweeted that. Next thing you know, every major news outlet has taken my tweet and is airing it. And next thing you know, I have every major hate group in the world coming at me on Twitter. It was insane. Keep in mind, the majority of what I got was love. But when you're getting hate and death threats and crazy shit, it's like, yeah, maybe this is a lot more relevant than maybe I thought.

Because we live in New York. We live in this beautiful bubble of diversity. But it is a bubble. And I still get the conversations of, you know, like, oh, no, I'm okay with gay people. No, I got gay friends. And it's like, yeah, that does make me feel better knowing that I'm not about to get beaten. But at the same time, that's still a conversation that has to be had. So seeing this story come to life is very powerful to me. I want kids to know that they are not alone. I want kids to know that they have a community that loves them. I want kids to know that they are who they are. And that is okay. There is no changing that. And you are born this way. It's not a choice. And so that aspect is very important to me, especially the outreach that The Prom does for LGBTQ youth.

Like, we've worked with Ali Forney Center and the Tyler Clementi Foundation, to name a few. It's also important. But then you really get me when you throw in Brooks, Beth, Chris, Angie, which is just like the best people in show business. These are the people that you look up to. These are comedy gods. You just, you cannot do it better than they do. And that's thrilling. When I started the show, I started off in the ensemble. I think I had one line. My line was, my son doesn't have to go to some gay prom. And I stayed with the show. I left Finding Neverland just because I wanted to work with these people and because I wanted to understudy Brooks. Yeah. So the show means a great deal to me.

[28:01] Alan Seales: They're absolutely incredible. And you're incredible in the show, too.

[28:06] Josh Lamon: Thanks.

[28:07] Alan Seales: Yeah. So the part of the storyline that I left out was that the actors you have mentioned are these washed-up Broadway actors in the show, not in real life, who decide to take on a cause and be activists. And you are their publicist, their PR agent, right? That gets them back and is like, this is perfect. We'll get your images back.

[28:29] Josh Lamon: Yeah.

[28:31] Alan Seales: Did you do any research into being a PR agent?

[28:35] Josh Lamon: No.

[28:35] Alan Seales: Or are you just like, screw it?

[28:36] Josh Lamon: No. I mean, because it's not that type of role. It's not Bryan Cranston in Network. I'm a secondary character to the secondary characters. So my job is to support them. I get a few good singers. I have to dance my ass off at the end. And that's my gig. The most research I did was, I can never say his name right. Oh, God. Rick.

[29:09] Alan Seales: O.M.

[29:10] Josh Lamon: Yeah. Yeah. Who's a PR guy. At first, Anne Roth was like, who designed the costume? So she's a wickedly funny woman. And just, you know, she's in her 80s and she's still working.

[29:23] Alan Seales: Rick Miramontes?

[29:24] Josh Lamon: Rick Miramontes? I don't know.

[29:25] Alan Seales: His last name, I think.

[29:26] Josh Lamon: But she was like, well, I think he should look like he has sweat stains all over him and the suit should be wrinkly. And I was like, no, he's not Willie Lohman. This is what he should look like. And she was like, oh, well, OK, it's your quarter. So, yeah.

[29:44] Alan Seales: Well, yeah. So we're not saying, Rick, we're not saying you have sweat stains.

[29:47] Josh Lamon: No, no. I was saying because, Rick, you're so glamorous. Like he has these incredible suits.

[29:54] Alan Seales: He is. He always comes in looking impeccably dressed.

[29:56] Josh Lamon: Exactly. And I was like, these four, you know, quote unquote, celebrities are not going to hang out with Willie Lohman. Like they're too, you know, egotistical for that.

[30:05] Alan Seales: You mentioned you're the understudy for Brooks, who's one of the principal characters, but you're also one of the main characters yourself.

[30:12] Josh Lamon: Yeah.

[30:12] Alan Seales: How common is it for somebody who is regularly on stage in a very substantial role to also be an understudy for another substantial role?

[30:19] Josh Lamon: Not often. It happened right before I got to Wicked, like way back then. Jenna Lee Green was playing Nessa Rose and also covered Elphaba. Same thing with my Nessa, who was Dee Dee Magno, Dee Dee Magno Hall. Forgive me, Dee Dee. She also covered Elphaba. So it doesn't happen often. But it was also like, you know, Barry, watching Brooks develop Barry over the past, however many years, I was like, that is a part that I need to play, that I want to play. And it has to be a part of my deal. Like, I have to cover it.

[30:56] Alan Seales: So that was part of it. You negotiated that? Like you said, I want to cover it?

[31:02] Josh Lamon: Yeah. I mean, I was lucky because they wanted me to anyway. But I told my agency, I was like, you have to get me to cover Brooks. And they're like, are you sure? Don't you just like want to enjoy the ride? I was like, I have to cover Brooks. And it's so much fun. I love going on.

[31:20] Alan Seales: How many times have you been on now? You've been on 10 times?

[31:23] Josh Lamon: Yeah.

[31:24] Alan Seales: Yeah, I still have not seen you as Brooks, I think, or as his role. I would love to.

[31:27] Josh Lamon: I'm a phenomenon.

[31:30] Alan Seales: Phenomenon.

[31:30] Josh Lamon: I'm just kidding. No, it's so much fun. It's crazy. Well, like, when does a big girl get to like stand center stage and sing a song? Like an 11 o'clock number. It doesn't happen all the time.

[31:42] Alan Seales: Not enough.

[31:43] Josh Lamon: Yeah. So I'm happy to be that Bonnie Milligan gave me the torch, metaphorically. And now I am getting to do that. It's fun.

[31:54] Alan Seales: Yeah. Brandon Uranowitz said that to me, too. Something similar was that you have, there's a problem in lack of representation on stage. In that now in Burn This, he's, for the first time, he's getting to play an openly gay character as a gay man.

[32:11] Josh Lamon: Oh, wow.

[32:14] Alan Seales: Yeah. Yeah. Like in his, however long his career is, you know, over a decade, this is the first time that's happened.

[32:20] Josh Lamon: That's interesting.

[32:22] Alan Seales: Well, it's fun getting to be a big man playing an openly big man.

[32:28] Josh Lamon: Yeah.

[32:29] Alan Seales: Yeah. I like that.

[32:29] Josh Lamon: Thanks.

[32:30] Alan Seales: So getting back to The Prom, though, the audience feedback, do you get stopped at the stage door? Do people come up to you and talk to you? And I mean, what kind of feedback do you get?

[32:39] Josh Lamon: Constantly. Some of it is really, really painful. Some of it is, you know, you hear a lot of kids that are really being put through it whose families are terrible to them because of who they are that just refuse to acknowledge it. Some are very religious and, you know, saying that these kids are going to hell. Um, this one man, uh, man, he was, you know, maybe about 21. I left the stage door and I was signing and then I got to him and he just burst out sobbing, like, you know, like ugly crying and told me that he's bi, that he's never said that to anybody before. He doesn't know what to do. He knows that his family, like, won't take it well. And he, he feels so alone. And so, you know, it's, um, it's, it's, it's hard because it's like, I, what can I do for you?

I can give you a hug. I can let you know that you're not alone, that you're loved. I can tell you to DM me on Instagram if you need someone to talk to. But I can't, you know, I want, I want you to be free of this, of this sadness and guilt. But, um, you know, I can't do that.

[34:10] Alan Seales: Does that, does that weigh down on you a lot? I mean, because if you're getting this every night, I imagine.

[34:15] Josh Lamon: It's not every night, but, um, it's a lot. So, you know, I, but I've been through a lot. I have very thick skin. And, um, because of the stuff that I've been through in my own personal life, I'm able to, oh gosh, sort of like, uh, you know, uh, I can compartmentalize it. Is that the right word?

[34:41] Alan Seales: Yeah.

[34:42] Josh Lamon: Um, you know, so I can be there for you, giving you my genuine love, but also not taking it home with me because I can't do that.

[34:53] Alan Seales: You take your love home to your two cats.

[34:56] Josh Lamon: I do, Sweeney and Toby. They're really cute. They're amazing. Um, it, it's, it's interesting to me, uh, I've talked with a lot of people who have come out later in life and now even recently in talking with Mikaela Diamond from the Cher show who identifies as bisexual and like, she's 19 and it's just this, she has this worldly knowledge about her that I don't see. They'd even like still some 19 year olds. I don't see, I don't, I don't see in some 19 year olds, but like when you were growing up, you know, we're the same age, right? So like when I was growing up and I'm generalizing you with, with me here is like the internet was still brand new. We had, I had modems, right? And didn't have broadband until college.

And then once I got the internet, I didn't know how to seek out people like me, whether that was clubs or orientations or interest or whatever the case may be. And now I feel like people are coming out at a younger and younger age, um, as well they should. Um, but you, you said even that you were bullied in high school, like thrown people were like, did you, when did you, did you come out? When did you know that you were gay?

[36:15] Josh Lamon: Well, um, I started coming out when I was about 16, but only, it wasn't because I was like, you have to know the secret about me. It was like, uh, you know, I'm tough. I was like, oh, you know what? You're right. I am gay and I'm going to make a hate crime out of this. Um, I'm going to go to the principal's office. I'm going to identify you in a yearbook and I'm going to take care of this and I'm going to systematically destroy your life as best as I can. Like that was my mindset when I was 16. Even when I came out to my parents, I came out to them in a fight.

[36:49] Alan Seales: Really?

[36:49] Josh Lamon: Yeah.

[36:49] Alan Seales: What did they do? Or were they, did they think you were serious?

[37:05] Josh Lamon: I think they were a little shocked, but then again, how could they not know? That would be some pretty heavy denial. So, I mean, they were fine with it. I remember my dad used to say, like, you know, I'm fine with that. Just don't wear it on your sleeve. And at first I took so much offense to that. But then I was like, no, he's, you know, in hindsight, I'm like, he was just trying to protect me. You know, just like to this day, I don't feel comfortable holding hands in public. I do because my personality is like, nope, we are here, see us. But, yeah.

[37:46] Alan Seales: Yeah. Well, you've obviously gone through some rough times. I want to talk about the good stuff for a little bit.

[37:54] Josh Lamon: Okay.

[37:55] Alan Seales: So, 2009, your Broadway debut.

[37:58] Josh Lamon: Yeah!

[37:59] Alan Seales: In Hair. But you were about to quit.

[38:02] Josh Lamon: Yeah.

[38:03] Alan Seales: Like, you just like half-assed the audition, right?

[38:04] Josh Lamon: Oh, yeah. That first audition, I was just like, you know, go fuck yourselves. Like, you're not going to cast me. I even tried to turn down the audition. I was like...

[38:14] Alan Seales: You had an agent.

[38:15] Josh Lamon: I had an agent. My agent at the time, who was wonderful, got me the appointment and said, and I was like, yo, I'm fat and I'm balding. I'm not going in for Hair. And he was like, no, they really, really want to see you. And I was like, nope. And then he called me again. I was like, fine, fine. I'll do 32 bars. That's it. And I walked into the audition. It was at the Public Theater. And I was like, what did I sing? I think I sang River by Joni Mitchell. And I did 32 bars and I was like, bye. And that was it. And then they just kept bringing me back and bringing me back and bringing me back. And then the final callback was this like monster marathon of a callback. There was like 50 people in the room maybe auditioning for five slots. And, you know, one guy broke his knee during the dancing.

[39:17] Alan Seales: During the audition?

[39:17] Josh Lamon: Yeah. It was really intense. And then I waited outside in the hallway for like three hours before I got to go back in and sing and do the scenes. And I was just so defeated. I was like, I'm not booking this. I hate this world. I called my agent, left him a voicemail saying like, I'm done. I don't want to do this anymore. I want to go back to school. I can't do this again. And he called me back the next morning and was like, you know, oh my gosh, I totally understand whatever you need. But before you take the break, I think you should be in the Broadway revival of Hair because they just offered you this. You know, it was very overwhelming.

[40:04] Alan Seales: Do you remember where you were?

[40:07] Josh Lamon: Yeah, I was in my apartment. I was doing a children's theater show in New Jersey. So I was getting ready to go to that. And, you know, I really didn't want to. I was in such a bad mood. I think I was doing Weight Watchers at the time, like one of the 8,000 times I've done it. And I was like, fuck it, I'm getting waffles. And I ordered waffles. And like, I was basically crying into my waffle sitting Shiva over Hair when I got Hair. I think I called my mom first and then my boyfriend at the time, I called him next.

[40:47] Alan Seales: That's funny. And you've also been in Elf and Finding Neverland, as you mentioned, and Groundhog Day with Andy Karl. And then, of course, now The Prom. And you've also done improv training?

[41:01] Josh Lamon: Yeah.

[41:02] Alan Seales: At the Upright Citizens Brigade.

[41:04] Josh Lamon: Good old UCB. Though my love for improv really, like UCB gave me a lot of good training, a lot of good experience. But The Magnet is my favorite improv place in New York. I love doing musical improv. I even was on like a little tiny indie team that died real quickly. We were called the Bubble Pops. And I love it, especially musical improv when it's like, give me a word.

[41:37] Alan Seales: Tomatoes.

[41:38] Josh Lamon: Okay, thank you. And now we're doing Tomatoes the Musical. And then the pianist starts improvising and you do an opening, you know, and you create a whole musical. It's so much fun.

[41:50] Alan Seales: And then half of them have gone on to Broadway.

[41:53] Josh Lamon: Yeah. And that's how Fun Home started. Crazy, right?

[42:00] Alan Seales: Yes. King Kong the Musical. Who would have thought of that?

[42:03] Josh Lamon: Somebody was like, Ring of Keys. And I was like, Ring of Keys the Musical. Um, yeah. Um, yes. Oh, Jillian's looking at us.

[42:14] Alan Seales: Jillian's looking at us.

[42:15] Josh Lamon: Josh, Jillian's looking at us.

[42:18] Alan Seales: I'm objectifying my body.

[42:20] Josh Lamon: Yeah, that's true.

[42:23] Alan Seales: Oh, right. Yeah, you guys are.

[42:24] Josh Lamon: My wife, Jillian.

[42:25] Alan Seales: Let's see. Um, I want you to, I want to, I want to get a little, uh, phone sex action.

[42:31] Josh Lamon: Okay.

[42:32] Alan Seales: What was your character? Who were you?

[42:33] Josh Lamon: Um, her name was Fiona.

[42:35] Alan Seales: Fiona.

[42:36] Josh Lamon: Yeah. So do you want to call me?

[42:39] Alan Seales: Bring, bring.

[42:41] Josh Lamon: Okay. So I'm sitting in a cubicle because this was an actual office. And so the bring, bring would happen and I'd sigh and then I'd pick up the phone and that's when I would hear an automated voice telling me what kind of call this is, which means about 90% of the time it says fantasy girl, which is your main character, Fiona. Or it says something else. It could be, you know, trans woman, um, you know, dominatrix, spanking, like whatever is your thing. But most of the time it's always Fiona. So bring, bring, bring, bring.

[43:18] Josh Lamon: Hi, this is Fiona. Who's this?

[43:21] Alan Seales: Yeah, this is, uh, this is Mark.

[43:23] Josh Lamon: Hi, Mark. How are you?

[43:25] Alan Seales: I'm doing okay.

[43:26] Josh Lamon: I really like your voice, Mark.

[43:28] Alan Seales: Oh, thanks.

[43:29] Josh Lamon: Yeah. Where are you calling from?

[43:31] Alan Seales: Oh, um, Ohio.

[43:33] Josh Lamon: Oh my God. I've always wanted to get banked in Ohio. Um, so let me tell you about me. I'm 21, 5'2", got really big breasts, um, a muscular vagina.

[43:46] Alan Seales: No, but I, I would say, like, I don't know anything about the anatomy of a woman. So as probably describing like a centaur or something.

[43:57] Josh Lamon: I have vagina dentata. Teeth in my vagina.

[44:00] Alan Seales: Yes.

[44:01] Josh Lamon: Um, I'm sure that got them every time.

[44:05] Alan Seales: Oh yeah.

[44:06] Josh Lamon: Um, okay. So you've also done, uh, some television.

[44:11] Josh Lamon: Yeah.

[44:12] Alan Seales: You've been on 30 Rock and Inside Amy Schumer and The Good Fight and a couple more. Do you see more of the television in your future?

[44:19] Josh Lamon: I hope so. Oh my God.

[44:22] Josh Lamon: Why do Broadway when you can work for two days and make real money? Um, my God. Yes. If you're out there, put me on your damn TV show.

[44:33] Josh Lamon: Um, I could be on Law and Order.

[44:36] Alan Seales: I could be like, yeah, I saw Alan the other day.

[44:39] Josh Lamon: Is everything okay?

[44:40] Alan Seales: Donk, donk. Like, why not?

[44:43] Josh Lamon: Donk, donk. That's all I want to respond to everybody.

[44:46] Alan Seales: Donk, donk.

[44:47] Josh Lamon: Hey, how you doing, Josh?

[44:48] Alan Seales: Donk, donk.

[44:49] Josh Lamon: Yeah, exactly.

[44:50] Alan Seales: Cut to interior studio podcast recording.

[44:51] Josh Lamon: No, I hope so. I love doing TV. It's so much fun.

[44:54] Alan Seales: Yeah. The scene with Alec Baldwin looked like it was a lot of fun on 30 Rock.

[44:58] Josh Lamon: I love him. He is funny. I mean, he is everything that you think he is. He is a strong personality, but he is the nicest. Um, I had, he was wickedly funny. Um, yeah, I, I loved getting to work with him.

[45:14] Alan Seales: That's a lot of fun. And your newest, one of your newest projects, your newest project, uh, is a podcast, which I'm helping you make.

[45:24] Josh Lamon: Yeah, you are.

[45:25] Alan Seales: Bam.

[45:26] Josh Lamon: Bam.

[45:27] Alan Seales: What's it called?

[45:28] Josh Lamon: It's called Josh Swallows.

[45:30] Alan Seales: Josh Swallows.

[45:31] Josh Lamon: Broadway.

[45:32] Alan Seales: And what's it about? Plug yourself.

[45:34] Josh Lamon: Oh, gosh. Well, it's, it's me talking with some of my favorite people in the business. We have, uh, you know, in the first few episodes, we're going to have Matthew Morrison, Rachel B. Jones, Christian Borle, Stephanie J. Block. Like it's, it's all my favorite people, all people that I've looked up to for forever. Um, I talk about their lives. So we laugh a lot. We'd be silly. And, um, now and then, uh, oh, my favorite part. I've had fans write in questions and I said, great, I would love to call you live on the show and talk to you about your question if you're up for it. But what they don't know is that they're also going to get to talk with a really special, you know, Broadway celebrity. Um, so it's really fun seeing them get like career advice or life advice or whatever, um, from people that they idolize.

[46:25] Alan Seales: Yeah. The questions, the questions have been wonderful. The audience, the remote audience, you know, the guests have been absolutely incredible. So, you know, I think you're doing a wonderful job.

[46:36] Josh Lamon: Thanks. I'm so excited. And, uh, yeah, we'll help you on this podcast, help you announce that once it goes live.

[46:42] Alan Seales: Yay.

[46:43] Josh Lamon: Which should be in the next couple of weeks, I hope.

[46:44] Alan Seales: Yeah.

[46:45] Josh Lamon: Um, so cool. So to wrap up this podcast, we normally do three standard questions.

[46:50] Alan Seales: Okay.

[46:51] Josh Lamon: Number one, very simply, what motivates you?

[46:54] Alan Seales: Hmm.

[46:57] Josh Lamon: Nothing. Um, what motivates me? I guess, uh, stability motivates me because I have none because I'm an actor. So that's like what I'm always striving for.

[47:10] Alan Seales: That's interesting. That's such a unique answer.

[47:13] Josh Lamon: I don't know. I'm very, I am. I'm very business minded all the time. So somebody will be like, oh my gosh, this happened. Yay for your show. And I'm like, yeah, yeah, no, no, that's good because of X, Y, and Z. And they're like, uh, I was just saying congratulations. Um, yeah.

[47:30] Alan Seales: All right. Number two, what advice would you give to your younger self and younger people listening now starting out down a similar path?

[47:37] Josh Lamon: Um, to myself, I would say be nice to my friend, Josh. Um, to other people, I would say be kind to everyone. Everybody remembers an asshole. Be the kindness.

[47:52] Alan Seales: All right. And if you could only see one show for the rest of your life, but you can see it as many times as you want, what would you see?

[48:01] Josh Lamon: That sounds terrible.

[48:04] Alan Seales: You could only see one show.

[48:06] Josh Lamon: Um.

[48:07] Alan Seales: It's like Groundhog Day. You can only go to one show for the rest of your life.

[48:11] Josh Lamon: Um, you know what? You know what? I'm going to do something real crazy and say The Crucible.

[48:16] Alan Seales: I love The Crucible.

[48:18] Josh Lamon: It's a great show. I'll never be in it either.

[48:21] Alan Seales: You know, I saw Alan sign the devil's book.

[48:27] Josh Lamon: We can get more of you on Instagram at Josh dot layman on Twitter at Josh layman. And of course, Josh layman dot com. You can get more of me theater underscore podcast on Instagram and Twitter. Facebook dot com slash official theater podcast. Listen, subscribe, rate, review, share with your friends. This is produced by Jillian Hockman. Thank you to jukebox the ghost for the intro and outro music. And once again, we have just launched our Patreon page. Patreon dot com slash the theater podcast. Please show your support. Help us keep going. We can do more than one episode a week if we can pay our editor some more. Everything is great. Thank you for listening. Josh, thank you for being here.

[49:05] Josh Lamon: I love you.

[49:07] Alan Seales: Thank you for having me. Do you want to hook up?

[49:10] Josh Lamon: Every day.

[49:11] Alan Seales: I'll do it as Fiona.

[49:13] Josh Lamon: Makes you feel more comfortable.