This transcript was automatically generated and might contain errors.

[0:00] Erich Bergen: Hey, it's Erich Bergen. Welcome to The Theatre Podcast with Alan Seales.

[0:11] Alan Seales: Hey, everyone. You found your way to another all-new episode of The Theatre Podcast with Alan Seales. That's me. I'm your host, Alan Seales, and our guest for this episode is Erich Bergen, who from childhood performances of We Are the World in his parents' living room to starring on Broadway and working with Clint Eastwood, he has always been obsessed with how the show gets made. In this episode, we go deep into the mindset of someone who never saw another path, someone whose childhood Lego builds were less about fantasy and more about replicating real-world logistics. He opens up about his early fame recovering from a devastating professional setback and how even a cancer diagnosis reshaped his career trajectory.

Of course, we get into his hilarious role in Boop the Musical where he's finally achieving his goal of originating a role, and he is loving every single second of it. Go see Boop, by the way. I think it's one of this season's best shows. I think it's just so much fun. It got a couple Tony nominations the other day. Make sure to follow this podcast on social media. I'm pretty much everywhere. Look for the video version of this episode on Patreon and on Spotify. And now, everyone, please enjoy this episode with Erich Bergen. Here you go. One, two, three.

[1:34] Alan Seales: Today, we're joined by a versatile actor, producer, and director whose career spans Broadway, television, and film. On the Broadway stage, he starred as Dr. Pomatter in Waitress and Billy Flynn in Chicago. He may be best known on screen for his role as Blake Moran in Madam Secretary and for portraying Bob Gaudio in both the stage and film versions of Jersey Boys. Behind the scenes, he's produced major events for Clive Davis, God's Love We Deliver, and the ACLU, and so many more. He is the executive producer of the NBC tribute Joan Rivers, a Dead Funny All-Star Tribute, and can now be seen again on the Broadway stage as Raymond in Boop the Musical. Erich Bergen, welcome to The Theatre Podcast.

[2:16] Erich Bergen: That was a fantastic intro. I also love that you said Jersey Boys and Chicago in the respective accents of those places.

[2:25] Alan Seales: How is there any other way to say them?

[2:28] Erich Bergen: This is what I've been saying my whole career. I'm very glad to have finally found someone who thinks the same way that I do.

[2:35] Alan Seales: Chicago, Jersey Boys. We just need a Bast in the musical.

[2:41] Erich Bergen: Right. Sure.

[2:43] Alan Seales: It'll be called Pac the Car, the musical.

[2:47] Erich Bergen: The worst is the Pittsburgh accent. I can say that because one half of my family is all from Pittsburgh.

[2:55] Alan Seales: Which half? The lower half or the bottom half?

[3:01] Erich Bergen: That tells you how early it is this morning.

[3:04] Alan Seales: That tells you how bad my humor is.

[3:06] Erich Bergen: That thought for a second.

[3:07] Alan Seales: I know.

[3:09] Erich Bergen: Yeah, the Pittsburgh accent is the worst one, so no Pittsburgh musicals.

[3:14] Alan Seales: What is a Pittsburgh accent? I actually don't know.

[3:16] Erich Bergen: I can't even attempt to. I will not give you the dissatisfaction of my not being able to do just about any accent, but especially not the Pittsburgh one.

[3:27] Alan Seales: Can you do a fun Australian accent?

[3:30] Erich Bergen: Nope.

[3:30] Alan Seales: Can you do... What's your... If you were to be Boop, give me your Boop accent.

[3:35] Erich Bergen: Give me your Jasmine Amy Rogers impression.

[3:39] Alan Seales: I couldn't dare.

[3:42] Erich Bergen: She has this ability to get that... She gets this... I don't know where in the mask it's placed, but she has an unbelievable talent of boopifying herself at any given notice.

[3:58] Alan Seales: I'm not convinced that she's not actually Betty Boop.

[4:03] Erich Bergen: Maybe... This is so meta. This is like the actual Smash Bombshell crossover here.

[4:09] Alan Seales: That's right. You don't realize how much she is that person. I mean, she says she's not, but that stuff pops out of her just... I don't think she went to training for this.

[4:24] Erich Bergen: That stuff just comes out of her body.

[4:27] Alan Seales: She went to black and white cartoon 1920s training school.

[4:31] Erich Bergen: Whatever academy that is on 38th Street, I'm sure she went there.

[4:34] Alan Seales: It's all on 38th Street. If you went 1910s, that's way lower.

[4:38] Erich Bergen: Way lower.

[4:42] Alan Seales: Where are you from?

[4:43] Erich Bergen: Born and raised here in New York City, right in Manhattan, in Chelsea.

[4:46] Alan Seales: Oh, okay. Okay. So the half of your family that's from Pittsburgh is not your immediate half or is it like distant relative half?

[4:54] Erich Bergen: It's my dad and my dad's family. They're all from Pittsburgh.

[4:57] Alan Seales: Okay. And then, so what brought the fam to New York?

[5:00] Erich Bergen: And you said you were born and raised in what part of New York?

[5:03] Erich Bergen: In Chelsea. My parents met... My mom is from Connecticut, and family is kind of all over New England, Connecticut, Massachusetts, that area. She went out to LA for a little bit. She came back and my parents met in something called Est.

[5:20] Alan Seales: EST.

[5:21] Erich Bergen: Yeah, EST. You're too young for it. It's now... I think it's kind of morphed into what's called Landmark Forum or Landmark or something like that. It's very... Are you Googling this as we talk about it?

[5:32] Alan Seales: I'm Googling your age. I'm older than you.

[5:35] Erich Bergen: Are you really?

[5:36] Alan Seales: I'm 44, dude.

[5:37] Erich Bergen: Wow. That is good work.

[5:40] Alan Seales: Thank you. Toss, toss.

[5:43] Erich Bergen: Yeah. No, I'm so... I'm 39. So my parents... I was born in '85. EST was like this, as I understand it, it was like this new agey, not self-help, but whatever the positive version of that is. It was very coming into yourself, transformative. It was just very of that time.

[6:10] Alan Seales: Sounds like it did a lot of ayahuasca.

[6:13] Erich Bergen: Well, I don't know if it crossed over into that far, but it is. I think it's a little bit of the same people that would now go to Burning Man. I think it falls into that category.

[6:24] Alan Seales: But they met in that and I think they were doing that at the same time as they were at this thing called the Actors Institute here in New York, which is where they ended up getting married. And they were both in the arts, love the arts. My dad never had a professional acting career, but he did have a cabaret act at the Duplex when it was over across the street.

[6:49] Erich Bergen: That place has been around forever.

[6:51] Alan Seales: He opened with Everybody Says Don't and then went into Barry Manilow's Even Now. And my mom saw the act. I don't know if that put her off from my dad or it was early on in the relationship, but somehow it led to me and I have done both of those songs in my club acts. So it carries through.

[7:12] Erich Bergen: You were destined to be a performer. There was no way out of it.

[7:15] Alan Seales: I had no choice. I had no choice.

[7:17] Erich Bergen: I mean, my parents didn't force me into it in any means, but I have no skills except for the one that I'm currently doing this evening.

[7:31] Alan Seales: I mean, I have no skills.

[7:32] Erich Bergen: I'm not kidding.

[7:34] Erich Bergen: I have no skills.

[7:36] Alan Seales: Well, obviously, you can produce and executive direct beyond just being on stage and being funny.

[7:44] Erich Bergen: You're 6'3", by the way, which I just discovered when I was Googling your age.

[7:48] Alan Seales: Yeah, but Google also says that Google has my wrong parents.

[7:53] Erich Bergen: Google also says that I am one of the richest actors in the world, which I'm not.

[8:02] Alan Seales: Wait, why did you Google that?

[8:04] Erich Bergen: Am I rich? Is that what you're going to be like?

[8:08] Alan Seales: Times are tough.

[8:09] Erich Bergen: These are things you Google occasionally.

[8:13] Erich Bergen: The reason why I know this is because my parents have a Google alert set to my name just to find out if I've been arrested at any given notice.

[8:22] Alan Seales: That's how they keep up with you.

[8:23] Erich Bergen: That's smart.

[8:23] Alan Seales: Totally.

[8:25] Erich Bergen: My dad forwarded me one of those AI bot articles that says my net worth is $53 million or maybe and he was like, we need to talk.

[8:41] Alan Seales: I said, maybe with one more TV show, I'll get there, but I'm just shy of that.

[8:49] Erich Bergen: Just $53 million shy of that $53 million.

[8:50] Alan Seales: Just $53 million shy of having $53 million.

[8:56] Erich Bergen: I don't know how we got here, but I grew up here in the city. Parents love the arts. Dad was a performer, auditioned for shows. Mom was an art director. She actually was art directing at Playgirl in the 70s and then went into the fashion world in New York in the 80s.

[9:17] Alan Seales: I had parents who were very into it all and still are.

[9:23] Erich Bergen: I was very lucky enough to grow up in a household with a lot of music. Music was on in the house 24/7. My dad was very much into doo-wop and the music of the 50s, the 60s. Funny enough, Frankie Valli and the Four Seasons, one of his favorite groups. Mom was very much Joni Mitchell, James Taylor, the music of Laurel Canyon, people like that. We had this incredible vinyl collection, which I have luckily inherited and is in the other room. Music was always around and art was always around. I think they noticed early on in my life that I loved Mr. Rogers and I loved Sesame Street, but somehow I came across MTV and VH1. I don't know how that showed up in my world, but I became obsessed with it and I became fixated on it.

The first memory I have regarding anything creative was the music video for We Are the World with all the different artists. I started to get this talent at four years old. I got this talent for imitating all of the artists that are in that song and then performing this at my parents' dinner parties for the dismay of their guests. At four years old, I remember trying to figure out Bob Dylan's voice. I remember doing that at three years old and going in between Bruce and Willie Nelson and all those things and doing the whole song. I knew what I saw. I remember there was a video of Michael Jackson performing. It was shot in concert, Michael in concert. In one song, they had clearly shot the video over the course of several performances because he was wearing a different outfit throughout the song.

One line would be wearing this jacket. Another line, he'd be wearing another jacket. It was edited. I didn't know from editing. When I would imitate it at home in front of everyone, I would be changing costumes mid-line and I had to keep changing jackets at the exact spot I thought he was changing jackets in the video. I was a full imitator. I was always trying to recreate what I saw. I remember when Michael Jackson did the Super Bowl and I was so amazed at how not just his performance, but how did they get the stage on the field in six minutes? How did they build all those things? I started to recreate it with my Playmobil set.

[13:13] Erich Bergen: Well, yeah. You know, they didn't model it as their careers so much. That's what was interesting, is that I didn't grow up in a house with people who were doing this professionally as their trade. I did it, I was growing up in a house with people who loved it and surrounded me with it because they loved to enjoy it and they did dabble in it and they were creative in their own ways. But neither one of them were, you know, professional performers or producers or anything like that. It's just that I think I was obsessive very early on. I think everyone will tell you I'm still just as obsessive, if not more. You still play with your toys in your dressing room. That's a rumor I've heard, yeah. All the time.

I mean, I do. Not kidding around, when I see a Lego set or an automobile thing, I've never been interested in the fantasy stuff. I was never interested in dragons or pirates or anything like that. I was interested in the airport set, the hospital set, the office, the real world things, because that was what I was trying to figure out how to... I think I have control issues. I think my therapy session has taught me.

[14:27] Alan Seales: I can relate on so many levels. Yes, I know you have a podcast.

[14:37] Erich Bergen: Yes, but about the control and the need to build with Legos specifically. I was making with golden books. Do you remember the old books with the golden, like they had the special golden spine?

[14:48] Alan Seales: No, what are those?

[14:52] Erich Bergen: If you Google golden books... Oh, you're too young for this. If you Google golden books, you'll know what I'm talking about. It's like this particular brand that the spine always had this little pretty strip of just gold wrap on the edge, so the spine, when you always could group them together. Anyway, I would make roads all throughout my house. I would build roads with the golden book specifically as the road, and then take blocks and make those the buildings, and then I would just make cars. But when it came to Legos, I'd start building the automobile. It was mechanics that I was attracted to.

[15:21] Erich Bergen: Right. I was obsessed with Brio, which was the wooden train stuff, and I was always so upset that they didn't make one... Everything was about... It was always a fantasy train in the woods somewhere, and I wanted Brio, but the New York City subway system. I wanted it to be real and recreating what I was experiencing in life. I don't know what that is. I don't know why I was so and still am not interested in fantasy. It's never been appealing to me.

[15:57] Alan Seales: I don't know either, but it's interesting you said that because when I think of... Game of Thrones, I watched it because it was a well-written show, not because I loved the fantasy of it, but I love anything sci-fi, especially aliens and time travel, but I don't like dragons.

[16:18] Erich Bergen: Right. Yeah. For me, I'm obsessed with Severance.

[16:22] Alan Seales: Yes.

[16:23] Erich Bergen: You couldn't pay me to watch House of Dragons. You couldn't pay me to watch Star Trek, that type of thing. It's just not where my... Now, by the way, if there's a casting director watching this, I am available for both of those spinoffs. However, I love fantasy when I'm in it. Yeah, that's just not where my brain goes. I don't know what that is, but it's interesting how those things that we, as kids, stay with us. We're always the same, what we become obsessed with early on.

[16:56] Alan Seales: Well, how did that translate then as you got older into acting and singing and dancing, moving, whatever that is? Because it sounds like from an early age, you would be a filmmaker.

[17:06] Erich Bergen: It was very little dancing, but I thank you for suggesting. Yeah, I always wanted to put on the show. At first, it was about becoming an actor and becoming a performer and being upfront. That was just my natural way into it. But I think the way that I am now as a producer and a director, I was always prepping for it. The work that I do now directly relates back to when I was in math class in elementary school, and instead of doing math, I was writing dream set lists for Whitney Houston concerts and thinking, no, this song should go before that one. This song has that fade out. It would be better if that song came before that one. That's what I was doing when I was 10. That's exactly what I do now. Clearly, I was prepping for it. I was training for it without knowing that I was training for it. But producing really came later in my life and career. I've been an actor for this whole time until accidentally I became a producer.

[18:22] Alan Seales: Don't go anywhere. We'll be right back after this break.

[18:26] Alan Seales: Welcome back to the episode. At what point, going through high school and then did you do college? At what point are you starting to take this seriously as a career? Or did you ever think otherwise that you wouldn't? But when did it hit when you're like, oh, I can do this? I can make a living from it?

[18:42] Erich Bergen: Yeah. Well, make a living. When I was 10 years old, I got discovered at an after school theater program. It actually was when I was nine. It was a youth talent manager who she approached my parents after seeing me in this after school theater program and said, I'd really like to sign your son. And they said, no, no, no, we're not doing this. And the next year she came back. And she said, how about now? And I was 10 years old. They said, we'll take a meeting. We sat down and she signed me. And I started to work as an actor. It was a lot of voiceover auditions. I was the kid who for a long time was like, all parts sold separately. That was my thing. I would do fruit roll-up, fruit by the foot. I just remember my early auditions.

[19:36] Alan Seales: Probably heard you so many times as a kid.

[19:40] Erich Bergen: You probably did. You probably did. There was Nickelodeon. I did a Nickelodeon big help thing for a while. I went into an audition for an audio book for, I think it was Goosebumps, R.L. Stine's Goosebumps. And this audio book, the producer of it, his name is Lawrence Acksmith. Funny enough, I had dinner with him last night. He was just in visiting from Toronto. He was working at the time as a producer at Simon & Schuster. And he called my manager and said, look, he's not right for this project, but I happen to be writing a musical that we're premiering at my off-Broadway youth theater company, which is called New York Youth Theater. The musical was called The Sick Boy, and it was loosely based on the story of Ryan White.

And I came and auditioned for that. And I got the part as kind of the lead kid in this show, playing the neighbor of the Ryan White-esque character. And we did it. And I did this musical off-off-Broadway around Halloween 1996. And that was really the start of my professional career. The summer prior, I had really discovered theater. I wouldn't even have known theater was a thing, except for my mom brought me to my first Broadway show, which was Big, the musical. And it was life-changing, because there were kids my age in the show performing and singing and dancing. So I saw that it was actually approachable. It was something I could do. It wasn't just something on MTV. And then that summer, my parents sent me to Stage Door Manor.

I was at Stage Door for seven years of my life, and that was kind of my major training ground. So I was spending summers at Stage Door, and then I was working professionally the rest of the year. And then I guess when I was 17 years old, I went to North Carolina School of the Arts for college. I dropped out after my second year, because I got a job in the Los Angeles company of White Christmas, which was directed by Walter Bobby and Brian Darcy James and an incredible cast of performers, Ruth Williamson, David Ogden Stiers. And I did that. And then the next summer, which would have been the year before I graduated, had I stayed in school, that next summer I was cast in the first national tour of Jersey Boys. And that was right after the show won the Best Musical Tony. And then it's been nonstop from there.

[22:30] Alan Seales: Well, how did that convert into the film version and working with Clint Eastwood? I mean, that's just incredible.

[22:34] Erich Bergen: Yeah. So I did the tour. I opened the tour. I did the first year of the tour, or the first year and month of the tour. We started in San Francisco, and we sat down in San Francisco for like six months. We moved to LA. We did the Amundsen. And you have to realize at the time, Jersey Boys was like Hamilton, right? It was just the biggest show in the world. Every last star was coming to the show. It was just a wild experience. I was 20 years old playing Bob Gaudio. And I was out on the road with Devin May as Tommy DeVito, Michael Ingersoll and Christopher Cawley-Jones. And it was wild. I mean, I remember waking up the day after opening night in San Francisco and walking out of my corporate housing.

There was a newsstand right outside, and on the cover of all the newspaper was the picture of the four of us from opening night, the night prior. It was a wild experience to be shot out of a cannon like that. And then at the end of 2007, they called and they asked me to open the Las Vegas Company. So three months later, I moved to Las Vegas. I did the show in Vegas for two years. I did it with Jeremy Kushner, Rick Fogno. And it was just an incredible cast of people. Devin May actually ended up joining. It was incredible. Vegas was a wild, wild experience to be headlining a show in Las Vegas for two years. And then I was let go from the production, which is the professional way of saying fired.

[24:16] Erich Bergen: Yes. And then that was that happened at the end of 2009. And then a week after being let go, I was in New York, kind of in a very dark.

[25:57] Erich Bergen: At the time, it was being directed by Jon Favreau at Sony. I went into the audition here in New York, I did it, and got a call a week later. We tried to follow up and say, “Anything happening? He’s about to leave on tour. Is anything happening?” They said, “Yeah. It’s not going forward. He’s not right for the role.” I remember them saying, “You mean the role that I’ve played for three years I’m not right for? What are you going to say? What are you going to do?” I didn’t get it. I went on tour, did the tour of “Anything Goes” for about five months. I found out while I was on the road that that version of the film got put into turnaround and did not happen.

[26:39] Alan Seales: What does turnaround mean?

[26:40] Erich Bergen: Right after the—what did you say?

[26:43] Alan Seales: What does turnaround mean?

[26:45] Erich Bergen: Turnaround usually means, “It’s not happening. We’re turning this car around. We are not going to make this. We are undoing this process.” That’s what I believe it means.

[27:00] Alan Seales: Sounds about right.

[27:01] Erich Bergen: I don’t know why they don’t just say, “Cancelled.” Someone smarter than me will be able to explain that, but they’re not your guest today. You’re stuck with me to poorly explain things. At the end of the “Anything Goes” tour, the week after I got home, I was living in Los Angeles. This is in January, March. Late February, early March. I was diagnosed with testicular cancer the week after I got off the road. I went through surgery and chemo. My first audition back was they had announced that they were doing the movie of Jersey Boys again and now Clint Eastwood was directing. I ended up with an audition again. I went in. There was only a casting associate and a video camera in the room, no one else, nothing else. I did the scenes, did the song and left. I didn’t hear anything.

[28:04] Erich Bergen: I flew to New York three weeks later, two weeks later, something like that, to do the first week-long workshop of the stage musical of An American in Paris. I was playing the role that Max von Essen eventually played on Broadway so brilliantly. On the final, I think it was the second to final day of that week-long workshop, I got a call in the afternoon, in the late afternoon, that said, “You got the part of Bob Gaudio in the Jersey Boys movie.” No callback, no nothing. That was it. That was it. Of course, I’m ecstatic, but they’re like, “You cannot tell anyone. It’s very important that you don’t tell anyone.” I had an audition later that evening, after the workshop was over. I had an audition for a regional production of Miss Saigon to play Chris.

I think it was at Arena Stage. I forget what theater it was for. I was petrified of this audition because I can’t really sing like that. That was never my kind of thing, but I was doing what I could, and auditions terrify me. I was ecstatic for two reasons. One, to have the job, but I was really ecstatic because this means I didn’t have to go to my Miss Saigon audition. That was really, really exciting to me. I said to my agents, “Oh my God, I don’t have to do this.” They said, “Well, here’s the problem. It’s 4 o’clock. Your audition’s at 5:30. Everyone’s in the room already. We can’t tell them why you’re not coming, and we don’t even know if we can get in touch with them because they’re all in the room already.

So just go. Look, the movie could fall through. You don’t know. It’s already been put in turnaround once. Just go.” They said, “Look, the pressure’s off. You don’t even have to think. Just go have fun. I’m sure you’ll have the greatest audition ever.” I said, “Oh, you’re right. Not thinking about it and not being in that frame of mind, this is going to be the easiest, most wonderful audition because I don’t care.” I thought, “Watch. I’m going to end up getting it.” When I tell you that it was one of the worst auditions of my life—

[30:11] Alan Seales: That was what I was expecting you to say.

[30:14] Erich Bergen: Oh, no. I was so bad that I remember the director laughing mid-song when I was singing “Why God, Why?” I remember thinking, “No, literally, ‘Why God, Why?’” It was very bad. So I was very, very happy that the movie went through. I was not expecting it. I was expecting, “And I nailed it. It was the best audition ever because I didn’t care, and I had to choose between the movie and this regional production.”

[30:44] Alan Seales: Yeah, no.

[30:45] Erich Bergen: Yeah, no. That didn’t happen.

[30:47] Alan Seales: Wow. Well, that’s incredible, then. Was it hard for you to go from the stage version to the movie version, or did they just say, “It’s still just as big?” Because TV film typically is more contained, not as big, typically, right?

[31:05] Erich Bergen: I think that what made it great was that Clint and the producers had decided to hire a lot of people who had done the show. All throughout the cast of “Jersey Boys,” the film, there are people who played Bob Gaudio in other productions of “Jersey Boys” that he hired and put them in different roles. The movie is filled with actors who did the show in one production or another. So that was really great. Tommy DeVito being played by Vincent Piazza was very helpful because he was such a great TV and film actor that we kind of jumped on to his spirit and style. The other thing was he did not use the original movie script that was written by John Logan. He brought back in Rick Ellis and Marshall Brickman to adapt their stage script for film, and that made it easier, at least for me, because I was saying words that were similar to me.

But I'm always a believer that great acting or good acting or acting is being aware of your surroundings, and I think it's about communication. So if you're on stage and you have to reach 1,500 people and you have a large theater, you need to communicate to the back row. When you're doing a TV show or film and the camera is right there, you just need to communicate to there. So I think that we just found ourselves naturally adapting by being aware of the space and being aware of each other. And Clint is a phenomenal director, so he trusted us to get the work done, and we did. I think we even came in a day ahead of schedule or something like that. We had two days to film what's known as the sit-down scene, which is the big scene in Act II of the musical where Jip DiCarlo, who's played by Christopher Walken in the film, kind of figures out what we’re going to do about all the money that Tommy has gambled away. And he had set two days to film this scene in the movie, and we got it done in one afternoon because so many of us had done that exact scene.

[33:27] Alan Seales: You rehearsed it for years already. Yeah, that's crazy. And then, did all of this start leading to, with Gossip Girl and the movie and everything, did that lead to more TV and film auditions, or were you still doing a lot of theater auditions?

[33:39] Erich Bergen: A mixture of both. Living in LA at that time, it was still the old version of pilot season, and I was doing Desperate Housewives and Person of Interest, Franklin and Bash. I did a bunch of guest spots on various TV shows. Great experiences. Jason Alexander, who had given me my first job in LA when I moved out there, I did Funny Thing Happened on the Way to the Forum at Reprise, which was LA's version of Encores! that's not around anymore. But Jason was the artistic director, and it was my very first audition when I moved to LA. It was my first week, and he gave me that part. And then later on, he was directing an episode of Franklin and Bash, and I auditioned, and he cast me in that. So it was very much like just, it felt very, you talk about who you know, it's not about who you know, it's just, hopefully you know some people who are also working.

I mean, you count on your friends and people that appreciate what you do, and I had a great time doing all those shows. But right as we were beginning to launch the promo tour for the Jersey Boys movie at the beginning of 2014, I got an audition for this. It was pilot season, and this script came into my email box called Madam Secretary, and it was being cast by a man named Mark Sachs. And I had known Mark Sachs since I was 15 years old, because he was also a Stagedoor Manor alumni, and he had continually come up to camp to look for new talent. And his best friend was my mentor, my teacher at camp, Michael Larson. So we were all, you know, very connected, and I was always auditioning for Mark, and I counted Mark as a friend. Mark felt, when he read the script, that there was one person to play this part, and that was me. So he, you know, he made sure that I got the script as quickly as I could, and I auditioned.

[35:36] Alan Seales: Don't go anywhere, we'll be right back after this break.

[35:40] Erich Bergen: Welcome back to the episode. When I went into the audition room, I was asked stories about working with Clint Eastwood, because they knew that I had just done the movie, and that it was about to come out. And they asked me, you know, how was it working with him, and all this stuff. And I told this story about this scene that I had to film in Jersey Boys, where I had to drive a car. But being born and raised in New York City, I didn't learn to drive a car until I moved to Las Vegas, and I was 22 years old, which is a bit later than most people learn to drive. What I really didn't know how to drive at all, and still don't to this very day, is a stick shift. And I had to do that in Jersey Boys, because it was those old cars. And Clint is a really calm guy, he really is, and he's incredible. But the one thing that gets on his nerves is when things like cars don't work. And I kept stalling out the car as I had to pull into the scene.

[37:10] Erich Bergen: So, why isn't it working? And I was just like, I, I don't, I... I mean, I, it was horrifying. And I told this story at my Madame Secretary audition and I got the part. So I'm convinced to this day it had nothing to do with my performance as Blake Moran. It was it was my impression of Clint Eastwood not liking me.

[37:33] Alan Seales: What did he do? I want to hear more Clint impersonation here. What did he what else did he say?

[37:37] Erich Bergen: He he was well, my favorite is that, you know, he would sometimes not yell. He didn't really yell action or cut because he had always said that he had started working when he was working as an actor and starting out. He started in Westerns. And you don't want to shout things because you don't want to scare the horses. So he would say things like, all right, go ahead. And you would just start the scene. And when it was over, when the scene was over, he would he would yell like, all right, but he would only say it to the crew. He wouldn't really say it to the actors. So there was one time we filmed the scene and we were he encouraged improv and like playing around with it and just seeing where the scene went.

And we were doing one scene. I forget what scene it was, but we were doing it and we were continuing the scene. And in my head, I know the script part of the scene has ended. Sure. Now kind of playing. And I looked over and I realized the crew had stopped filming like a while ago. We were still acting. He's such a gentle guy that that calmness on set is why you're able to get so much work done so quickly and why he works so much as a director. He he just pops these movies out. But it was he was he was very calm and very serene until that one day when the car didn't work. And then I thought, oh, this is really now Dirty Harry has showed up. Yeah, he was he was magical. Wonderful, wonderful, wonderful.

[39:07] Alan Seales: Feel like driving a stick shift.

[39:10] Erich Bergen: Exactly. The answer is no, I really don't. That's like I want to hear you do Clint doing Batman.

[39:19] Alan Seales: That's already that's that's I'm Batman.

[39:21] Erich Bergen: Yeah, there you go. There you go. Now I have to call out tonight. Yeah, I'm I'm Betty Boop. Where's Betty Boop? Hey. All right. So, Madam Secretary, you're this long running show. I want to I want to fast like everyone knows about Madame Secretary. Great. I want to talk about Boop. Boop is now one of my new favorite shows.

[39:41] Erich Bergen: Oh, I'm so glad. Saw it the other night. And and again, like going in, like, what is this about? I didn't I didn't see any of the out of towns. I try very purposely not to read about a show before I see it because I want I want to go in and just experience it in real time for the first time. Yeah. And again, Jasmine's performance, your performance, every every single person in that cast brought it. Yeah. And the script, it's such a fun show. So like for you personally, for Eric, when you're like, oh, they're making a Boop musical, what was your first reaction to hearing about this IP being developed?

[40:18] Erich Bergen: That's the dumbest idea I've ever heard in my entire life. Yeah, that's what I thought. When when I you know, I had heard you know, for years, I think for like 20 something years, I think even at one point, Jason Robert Brown was set to write it. I remember seeing that on one of the theater websites a million years ago. I was aware that it was a show that somebody was trying to do something with. And then when I heard David Foster was writing it and I knew David, I had worked with David, I knew him, you know, personally and professionally. I thought David Foster is writing a Betty Boop musical like those two things do not go hand in hand. So I was very turned off to the idea. And I I love David Foster and I get Betty Boop.

It was the two things together that didn't make sense for me. And then when Jerry Mitchell was attached, I thought, oh, now I kind of see what's happening now. I kind of see what this is going to be because the Jerry Mitchell style once once that umbrella was put on it, I understood what this show was going to be. And then when I heard Susan Birkenhead is writing the lyrics legend, fantastic. And then Bob Martin writing the book, I thought, OK, now this is something that could be interesting if they nail this. This is going to be great because all four of those people are perfect. And I went to see a workshop of it in a few years ago. Jasmine wasn't in it yet. And Andy Karl was playing Raymond Demarest.

And I thought it was great. I thought it was fun. I could see that they had work to do at that point. I think it was called Betty Boop's Day Off. And but I could see what it was becoming. And about a year later, I got a call saying, would you be interested in replacing Andy Karl? And he's going to go do something else that he's been wanting to do. And I said, sure. I was up more for the I hadn't originated a role yet. I had I you know, I even Jersey Boys doing the tour. You know, Danny Riker had played that role first in in in Waitress. I was the fourth person to play Dr. Pomatter, I think. And in Chicago, I was the 204th to play the person to play Billy Flynn. Estimated. Yes. So I was excited about the idea of originating a role.

And that's what made me want to do this. And then I absolutely fell in love with the show and I fell in love with its message. I fell in love with the song, the score. I fell in love with the script. I fell in love with doing it. I fell in love with watching this audience every single night and how they react to this kind of old fashioned. I don't mean that negatively, but it felt like we were doing 42nd Street. And now what I'm addicted to is really watching this this audience every single day react to this show. I've never seen such a diverse audience. You have you people come who are there to just have a great time and have a night out. And then at the matinees, you get kids, all these kids, all these kids who are lined up outside the theater waiting for autographs afterwards, all holding their stuffed pudgy dolls.

You know, Betty's dog. It's incredible. I mean, it really is something that I did not see coming. I had no interest in doing. And thank God I said yes, because it was a it was it's it's meant so much to me.

[43:54] Alan Seales: Do you like playing that type of the Raymond trope of character where he's just like this full of himself? Sort of moron like he doesn't realize they don't realize that they're completely stupid and closed minded, but just go through life just being like, all right, I'm going to I'm going to go do these things and these things are all completely ridiculous.

[44:17] Erich Bergen: Well, what's scary to me is that I never played those characters before. But as I get older, more and more of those characters, I don't have to audition for. They're just awkward to me. A little horrifying. You know, I was playing I was playing Bob Gaudio and then Blake, the nice trusty assistant on Madam Secretary. And then I was playing Dr. Pomatter, the sweet, you know, male romantic gynecologist lead and waitress. And then all of a sudden I got Billy Flynn in Chicago, you know, the lead in Dial M for Murder, you know, the one who did it. And and Raymond Demarest, the corrupt mayoral candidate in Boop. So I don't know where this is going next, but, you know, I don't know how I feel quite yet. I as long as it's in a comedy, I'm fine with it.

[45:10] Alan Seales: Well, you can ultimately I mean, in Boop specifically too, you're getting laughed just by plain physicalities, right? Because your character is just so ridiculously dumb. Like writing on a platform of sanitation. Like, what's the slogan? You can do do it. Let's do do this. Let's do do this. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

[45:32] Erich Bergen: Well, there are some big laughs in this show. I credit them all to Bob Martin. I my theory is say the words in the right order. And that's how you'll get the laugh. He has done that work for me. I am happy to step into the role of not messing up his words and and kind of nailing the lap as much as I can. That's how I feel about it. Even the physicality stuff that I do, it all comes from what's on the page. And they allowed me to do it. I mean, Jerry and Bob and everyone allowed me to kind of push this as much as I could, and you do have to you have to walk. I have to walk a line in the show of being the bad guy, but having to be likable enough to get laughs if they if they hate me, then even if I had the best joke in the world, they won't laugh.

Right. So I have to ride that line. And we talked about it in the rehearsal process. There were things that I said, let's not go there because I think I'll lose them. I remember I was I did something in Chicago one night and I tried to play with something and Walter Bobby came to see it. And he gave me one note and he said, that's an expensive laugh. That's costing you something later on. And he said, you got the laugh and that's great. But you paid the ultimate price for it later on. In act two. And I don't want to go into all the details. I don't want to kind of, you know, I don't want to go into that because it was kind of it's a very special thing for me and my version of that role. But that that line stayed with me.

That's an expensive laugh. And when I went to work on the show, I thought about that because it's a it's a very fine line. I have to walk. And a lot of it too, is just like you said, trusting the words from the script. Yeah, because Bob wrote a wrote a script for your character that is very carefully treading that line. It's very easy as an actor. And we all do it when one night you don't get a laugh in the same spot or the laugh is different or the reaction is different. And so you start to push, you start to beg the audit. You start to milk. You start because you're addicted to that laugh. You're addicted to hearing what you heard the last night. And when it doesn't happen, you go, it must be me or it must be them.

Whatever you're thinking, you go, I'm going to frickin get that laugh. It's the it's the last thing I do. And that's what will ruin you. And I can only say that as someone who has done it and still finds myself wanting to do that and occasionally doing it. If you always trust the material and you go back to the material, you'll kind of land in that you'll land safely.

[48:25] Erich Bergen: So just comparing and contrasting theater and film, you have the fortunate experience to say that you've been on a long running show like Madam Secretary. And because of that, you can I assume that there's lots of relationships and bonding and things with with the cast on the Madam Secretary that you wouldn't normally get with something that's short or as a day player or whatnot, because even when you're rehearsing smaller roles.

[49:23] Erich Bergen: You know, the act that you do is slightly different. One has maybe a little more creativity and weirdness, and one is a little more straight-laced. But there are days when that may be switched. I feel like I go into any rehearsal room or set, I go in with my bag of tricks set. That's what I train for. That's what I've worked on. That's what I've developed over my career. And then you go in and you play with that bag of tricks as much as you can. And then you look for opportunities to push that and try to get some new tricks, make yourself a little uncomfortable. But it's really all dependent on the people that you're surrounded with. Don't go anywhere. We'll be right back after this break.

[50:14] Alan Seales: Welcome back to the episode. I've been very, very lucky to have been surrounded by not only legends, but great, smart working actors. Those are my favorite people. The best thing about Madam Secretary was we got to film here in New York City, and the cast was just filled with working actors who moved between different mediums. Tim Daly, Jelko Ivanovic, Patina Miller, Jeffrey Aaron, Sebastian Arcelis, Bebe Neuwirth, of course, all led by Tayo Leone, who has her stage fright so intense that when she came to see Boop on opening night, she was so nervous. She literally was so nervous for me. The stage frightens her. But she was such an incredible, you know, number one on the call sheet on the show.

And there was never any drama on that set. We literally would sit around, we would do our scene, we'd say our lines, dark, dark subjects, sometimes they would yell cut. And then we would laugh. And we would, everyone would pull out the New York Times, we'd read the review of this play, we'd read it, we'd talk about, I want to go see that show we want to see, we it was just a bunch of actors hanging out, trying to make something great. We had the, you know, real, distinct kind of honor of being produced by Morgan Freeman and Laurie McCreary. And our producing director was Eric Stoltz. So these were all people who know from acting and know from both sides of the camera, just very, very lucky. But I think it's all dependent on there is no such thing as a one person show, even when you're doing a one person show, you are dependent on the people that you surround yourself with to it's hard work.

It's really hard work. You just you so you have to make the experience as pleasurable as possible. And you have to always remember that the thing is the thing, not you. The final product is the thing. I can't stand when people say, do this for you. You know, I finally did this art for myself. I did this for me, you know, or tonight. Do this performance for you. No, there are people out there who some paid two hundred dollars for tonight's ticket. Nine hundred. There are people who watch this show every week. They turn it on because this is what brings them joy. You're doing it for them. If you're doing it for you, then do it in your living room. It's it's this is not we're not, you know, we're not EMTs.

We are entertainers and we're artists and we can we can save lives and we can change lives. But you've got to do it in a way that communicates it to those who are watching, not for yourself. I'm a big believer that you have to do it for the audience. That's why we do this.

[53:14] Alan Seales: Well, speaking of one person shows, it's now time for you to give me your one person rendition of plot in 60 seconds. So what's going to happen is that you give me a number one through 16, which corresponds to a list of popular musicals. And so depending on what number you give me, you will have chosen a musical that you then have to give me the plot for in 60 seconds or less. I mean, I'm going to fail at this, but let's just go with number five.

[53:43] Erich Bergen: All right. Number five, 60 seconds up on the screen. Number five is Les Mis. Go.

[53:49] Alan Seales: 60 seconds remaining.

[53:50] Erich Bergen: A man steals a loaf of bread and there's an officer who is determined to bring him to justice for doing so over the course of 45 seconds, many years. And this is all set against the backdrop of the student revolution of France.

[54:17] Alan Seales: Led by Russell Crowe.

[54:19] Erich Bergen: Russell Crowe played the officer, right?

[54:21] Alan Seales: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[54:22] Erich Bergen: In the film.

[54:23] Alan Seales: Yeah.

[54:23] Erich Bergen: Yeah. And then there is a prostitute and a little boy named Gavroche. And I played Tenardier on the Les Mis Junior cast recording at MTI. So if you're doing it at your school, you're possibly hearing me at 16 play Tenardier.

[54:48] Alan Seales: I don't think that had anything to do with the plot, but I liked it.

[54:52] Erich Bergen: I don't think you're right. I think I nailed it.

[54:56] Alan Seales: All right. Well, I'm going to record this, send it to investors. And if they want to do a revival, then you've won.

[55:03] Erich Bergen: Well, you know, everything has to be stripped down these days to be successful on Broadway. So I think my new version of Les Mis, if it's just a man being chased by another man, holding a loaf of bread for three hours, and then a 16 year old Tenardier, we're good.

[55:17] Alan Seales: It's got to be a big French baguette, though. That's the whole thing.

[55:20] Erich Bergen: That's right.

[55:21] Alan Seales: Yes. If it's a normal loaf, it's got to be a long French baguette. All right.

[55:25] Erich Bergen: That's right.

[55:25] Alan Seales: Three stater closing questions to wrap up. The first one simply is just what motivates you.

[55:30] Erich Bergen: A reaction. Nailing a laugh.

[55:35] Alan Seales: Okay. What advice would you give to your younger self and younger people listening now starting out down a similar path?

[55:40] Erich Bergen: The advice that I would give to my younger self is keep going. You're right. I'm truly awful. The advice that I'd give to others, the worst thing that you can be is an uneducated actor. You have to know your history. Do not walk into an audition room or a rehearsal room having not watched all 100 movies on AFI's 100 greatest movies of all time. Do not do it. And try to do the same for plays and musicals. Know who came before you. Know how you got here. Don't be the person who said, I love Don't Rain on My Parade from Glee. You will sound like an idiot. Know where that song comes from. Know its background. Know who wrote it and know the other songs they wrote. I think that education of an art form, whatever art form you are using, whatever art form you are in professionally, you should know in and out.

[56:56] Alan Seales: All right. Last question. If you could only see one show for the rest of your life, but you can see it as many times as you want, what would you see?

[57:03] Erich Bergen: We're talking about Broadway show.

[57:05] Alan Seales: Any show you want.

[57:06] Erich Bergen: Oh my God. Dance of the Vampires.

[57:09] Alan Seales: What is that?

[57:10] Erich Bergen: Are you kidding me?

[57:11] Alan Seales: No, I'm not. Am I an uneducated podcast host?

[57:15] Erich Bergen: Dance of the... Well, you're about to be fixed. Dance of the Vampires was a musical that came out in 2003, I want to say. It was written by Jim Steinman, who wrote the score. Jim Steinman wrote Total Eclipse of the Heart, Holding Out for a Hero, many of those big, epic pop songs of the 70s and 80s. A genius writer. It was a musical that existed in Germany, and in Germany it was taken very seriously. I think it's based off of an old film. And when they brought it to Broadway with people like Mandy Gonzalez and Max von Essen, it became this techno, rock, pop, opera show. And Michael Crawford starred in it. It was his return to Broadway after Phantom. And it became the campiest, craziest, weirdest musical you have ever seen.

And Act Two opened with Total Eclipse of the Heart. I was so obsessed with it, I saw it eight times at the Marquee Theater. And you can watch it on YouTube, some illegal recording. It was the greatest, greatest thing I have ever seen. And I wish I could go back and see it every night.

[58:35] Alan Seales: I literally just found the full recording, Slime Tutorial, here on YouTube.

[58:40] Erich Bergen: What does Slime Tutorial mean? I always see that.

[58:44] Alan Seales: It means bootleg, so that you don't get flagged by devices looking for the word bootleg.

[58:52] Erich Bergen: How did it get to Slime Tutorial?

[58:55] Alan Seales: I couldn't tell you at some point. Someone just kept posting them and said, here's a Slime Tutorial. And then everyone just started calling it that.

[59:04] Erich Bergen: So I don't get flagged for promoting bootlegs, I call it a Slime Tutorial.

[59:08] Alan Seales: All right, well then Google the Dance of the Vampires Slime Tutorial.

[59:11] Erich Bergen: Well actually, in the title it says Broadway Full Show 2002. So they didn't even try to hide this one.

[59:16] Alan Seales: They basically given up on that one.

[59:18] Erich Bergen: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. The unions are just saying, just take this.

[59:22] Alan Seales: Yes, it's only filmed in standard def, though. Full warning, there's no HD pinhole camera in this one.

[59:29] Erich Bergen: This is like someone put a camcorder on their shoulder and nobody cared.

[59:33] Alan Seales: That's exactly right. Well the best part about that show was that when you went to the theater, the ushers, I'm not kidding, they were wearing capes and fangs.

[59:40] Erich Bergen: Yes.

[59:41] Alan Seales: God, I want to go back in time and see this.

[59:43] Erich Bergen: Oh God, we need Alex Timbers to bring this back with his immersive thing.

[59:47] Alan Seales: Okay, so then where can we find you online, social media? Where can we connect and see all the things?

[59:54] Erich Bergen: I'm only on Instagram, Eric Bergen, E-R-I-C-H-B-E-R-G-E-N, and come to Boop. We're on Broadway right now, unless you're listening to this in, you know, 2060. And then we're probably not on anymore, but you know, wasn't the revival great? And then this NBC special that I produced airs on May 13th. It's called Joan Rivers, a Dead Funny All-Star Tribute. Incredible cast of people paying tribute to Joan, Nikki Glaser, Patton Oswalt, Tiffany Haddish. The list goes on and on.

[1:00:28] Alan Seales: All the peeps.

[1:00:28] Erich Bergen: I was very, very proud to make it.

[1:00:30] Alan Seales: All the peeps. That is great. You can find me on Thread, Instagram, TikTok, Facebook. Leave a rating and a review. Leave a comment, if you can, wherever you're listening. Jukebox the Ghost gave us our intro and outro music. And Eric with a C-H, Bergen, gave us our conversation. Thank you so much, man. This has been great.

[1:00:47] Erich Bergen: Thank you.

[1:00:48] Alan Seales: Eric with a C-H. Oh, wait. Now we got to say, uh, in, in, in Clint Eastwood, uh, instead of cut, we're going to, all right, that's it.

[1:00:57] Erich Bergen: All right.

[1:00:58] Alan Seales: Just stop.

[1:01:00] Erich Bergen: Just stop. Take a deep breath, make the world a little colorful.