This transcript was generated by AI and is most likely not entirely accurate.

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**Kimiko Glenn:**

Hi, I'm Kimiko Glenn. Welcome to the theater podcast with Alan Seales.

**Alan Seales:**

Hey, everybody. Welcome to another episode of the theater podcast. I'm your host, Alan Seales, and our guest for this episode is Kimiko Glenn. And I have to warn you, this conversation goes everywhere in the best possible way. We got into her whole creative universe from how songwriting started out as this private little diary she actually never had planned to share with anybody, to the very funny reason her Hangout Forever music video took such a dark comedic turn. She's got a new single out. Yes, Hangout Forever. You have to go check it out.

We also talked about the surprising things she's actually the most self-conscious about, and it's not what you'd guess, and how her time on Waitress collided with panic disorder in a way that she's never really unpacked publicly before. So, Kimiko, if you are listening, thank you so much for going there. And she also got incredibly honest about what it was like being suddenly recognizable everywhere during the height of Orange Is The New Black, how she dealt with people literally grabbing her on the street, and why asserting herself creatively or otherwise still feels like a risk even though she comes across online as being totally fearless.

And then we ended up kind of in a deep conversation about boundaries and identity and being what she calls an impatient cheerleader, and why helping others is the most selfishly rewarding thing we can do. It's a wide-ranging, personal, funny, I mean, just like her. She's full of charming chaos. And so, before we get into the actual episode, let me just play a little more of her new single that just released called Hangout Forever.

Oh my gosh, today's guest is an incredible multi-hyphenate whose work spans Broadway, television, film, animation, and now, of course, original music. She has appeared in the Broadway production of Waitress, hit the road with the national tour of Spring Awakening, and then captured global attention as Brooke Soso in the groundbreaking series Orange Is The New Black. Her voice has basically become a whole universe of characters.

Let's see, Nifty in Hasbun Hotel, Kif in Kif, you guessed it, Izzy in the My Little Pony movie, which my two boys love, by the way, plus the worlds of Spider-Man into the Spider-Verse, Centaur World, Duck Tales, Bojack Horseman, and we'd be here forever if I listed them all. On top of that, she's got a fan base through her music and creative work online and now has a brand new single called Hangout Forever, which just dropped on November 14th.

Tomiko Glenn, welcome to the theater podcast.

**Kimiko Glenn:**

Thanks for having me.

**Alan Seales:**

Wow, you are so... I mean, I was going to say multi-hyphenate, and I feel like that phrase is oft overused, but it truly describes you in such a great...

**Kimiko Glenn:**

I contain multitudes.

**Alan Seales:**

You do? Well, okay. Why... I mean, it's a loaded question of like, why do you like doing everything? But why do you like doing everything?

**Kimiko Glenn:**

Well, I mean, I don't know. Okay, so I started in the theater world. So that was my first love was singing. I was obsessed with singing and kind of as loud as possible, which my parents will attest to. I was being crazy and loving to do impressions at home, and my dad was like, you should do a play or something. And I was like, yes. And so I just started doing theater and plays and singing all the time. And it just was something that felt like is what I do naturally. It's like, I don't have to try to be an actor. I just am one in my bones, unfortunately. So that's kind of how it all started.

And then I was in the theater space for a while, and then I started auditioning for like TV and film. And it's so silly. It sounds so stupid. But I didn't realize like, oh, actors can also do TV and film. I was like, because I was so obsessed with doing Broadway. I was like, this is I was like, one track mind. I was like, this is all I care about. I just want to be on stage. And I didn't think like, oh, I can also audition for like TV and film.

And when I started getting sounds so stupid. But when I started getting like auditions, I was like, okay. And then I got something pretty early on. And I saw the paycheck. And I was like, Oh, why am I doing theater? And so I started really pursuing it. And then when the voiceover came into the mix, I realized like, as I'm getting older, like setting myself up for the future. I was like, wow, I can do this. Like, it's very flexible. Like the scheduling is flexible. I could do this while pregnant, I could do this like, while having a child, you know, there's passive income involved, because like, you know, it airs on television a lot. And so I, I was like, this is really great. And it feels so natural to me, because I'm like, it's almost like being on stage.

And, and then with the music stuff, I've always written music, like, kind of for the past, like, 10 to 12 years or something. And I just like, I just write it to feel like I can process my emotions. It's like my own form of journaling. And so like, I started learning guitar, like at the age of like, probably 20. And self taught, really shitty, not great. Can I say shitty? Okay. And still not great. With using that tool, I like have been writing and writing and writing and just sort of like, it'll be like, you know, a verse and a chorus, and I'll be like, Ah, feeling gone, how wonderful, I processed it. And then I just put it away.

And then during COVID, I started actually sharing my music with my friends who I was like, Okay, I think they're safe. Like, it was always so embarrassing to me, because I like, it wasn't for like, public consumption is for like, it was like my diary, you know, right. So my friends were like, you should do something with this. What are you doing? And so then I started I really hesitated for like three years. And then I started producing like two years ago. And now I'm like full on and I'm like, this is so fun. And this is like a whole different like, now that I'm actually forced to like finish a song. I'm like, it's so it's so nice. It feels so good to like put the puzzle pieces together and just like, have it click and be this weird, like moment in time of your like thought process.

**Alan Seales:**

You know, there's so many things you said that make me scratch my head.

**Kimiko Glenn:**

Okay, yeah, there. I'm confusing.

**Alan Seales:**

No, it's not confusing. It's not confusing. And this is what I love about this podcast, because we sit down and dive into all the intricacies of what makes people so uniquely different. And, and, like, you were saying that music, of all things, was the most vulnerable.

**Kimiko Glenn:**

Yeah, right. Me, I'm used to like, I'm an actor. So like, I'm used to being given a script. This is someone else, you know, right. And like, I'm allowed to just the reason I felt so good in theater was because like, I was like, pretty shy. And I like, I just was weird. I don't know. And I like when I got on stage, I was allowed to just be big and be like, confident and be like, someone else. And it was like, I could, it was like a fake it till you make it kind of thing. Like, you know, those power poses, like, it just sort of did that for me. Where it was kind of therapeutic.

**Alan Seales:**

Yeah, I think what was it? What was the question? I forget what the question was.

**Kimiko Glenn:**

Yeah. Music was the most vulnerable thing you've done.

**Alan Seales:**

Yeah, yeah. Well, um, so also, it's interesting, because I actually, side note, I had to like, do a maid of honor speech for my sister's wedding. And that was so scary, because it's me, right? These things that are like, coming from me, are just so vulnerable. And so like, oh my gosh, what if I mess it up? Also, like, in any scenario, there are so many factors, a lot of times actors take the fall for something being bad. But at the same time, you can always be like, the director told me to do this, the writer was like, rewrote that line, I didn't agree with it, or the editor gave me a bad edit, you can, you can say a lot of things to like, make excuses for why something's not great, or like, why you look bad or whatever. But when it's me, when it's like, all me, it's all on me, you know, so it's like, you're seeing, like into my mind. And like, if you disagree, that's like so much more heartbreaking than if someone didn't like something I did. You know what I mean?

**Alan Seales:**

Okay, so diving into Hangout Forever for a second, if you just listen to it, it seems like this, like, cute, like, I want to be with you forever, I think you're my soulmate, you're great, great, but then you watch the video. And it's like, I mean, I don't want to spoil too much for those who haven't seen it, but it made me laugh so much. And there's like, a lot of some pretty dark stuff in there that is presented, you know, sort of comically or whatever. So if, okay, so number one, why I was like, say, what I was saying a second ago about like, what you said, there's a lot of things that made me scratch my head.

Like, you're dark, you're, this is vulnerable, you're dark secrets, right? Like, number one, do you want to imprison your boyfriend or girlfriend? But two, like, I feel like there, if something that is already vulnerable, you're already doing this music, you're already putting that out there. But then to kind of take it to that extreme, is does that, it's a two part question. So does that make it easier? Or is it?

**Kimiko Glenn:**

Here's the thing, like, I wrote it in earnest about the guy I was dating at the time. His name was Ernest?

**Alan Seales:**

His name was Ernest.

**Kimiko Glenn:**

No, it wasn't. Ernest goes to fan camp. Yeah. I just wrote it kind of like, as he had done so much for me for my birthday. And I was like, oh my god, I need to like, really do something crazy good for his birthday. And so I had like, been vibing on this concept of like, we should hang out forever. Because I, I was dating him and he was like, so good to me and so wonderful. And I was like, we should hang out forever. You know, but I was being really non committal at the time, too. So it's like, sort of this, like, we should hang out forever. But I'm also like, we're just hanging out, you know?

**Alan Seales:**

Yeah, yeah. Situationships.

**Kimiko Glenn:**

Yeah, yeah, yeah. But I, so I wrote it kind of furiously, like, I have to like, get this out before his birthday. And I started producing it. And I was like, man, this is like, too, like, earnest. I need to, it's too sincere. I need to like, counteract this somehow. And then I was like, in the shower, and I was like, oh my god, what if I trapped him? What if I like, made him hang out with me forever? You know, and I was like, oh, that's a good way to just like, give this a little balance because the song itself is like, was kind of vulnerable.

And you'll see because I'm going to release an acoustic version in a couple weeks. And you'll see kind of like the original form it was, where it's actually, it sounds like an unhinged pop song. And it's like, how is this going to be an acoustic? But it really is so sweet. It's like a sweet, sappy song. So yeah, that's you'll see the journey of that thought process.

**Alan Seales:**

So you made it, you took it to an extreme to counteract being too vulnerable.

**Kimiko Glenn:**

A little bit, yeah.

**Alan Seales:**

That's interesting. That's very interesting. Because it's all you.

**Kimiko Glenn:**

Yeah, I've, I've, I can understand that when it's something like when it's, you're directing, you're producing, you're acting in it, you're singing in it, everything. And then if there's anything wrong, like you don't have anybody else to blame.

**Kimiko Glenn:**

Yeah, it's all me.

**Alan Seales:**

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Sorry. Yeah, but also I took it as an opportunity because like, I was actually just going to drop music. I didn't want to like complicate it. I'm not like with a label or like anything. I didn't want to be beholden to anyone. I just wanted it to be a creative expression, kind of how it has existed. Because I didn't want to like tarnish the thing that was like so helpful to me and helps me process. Like even as I'm doing all this stuff, I still like sit down and write because it makes me like if I'm going through something or trying to process a feeling, I like write music. Because it just makes me feel like, better.

But also, I love being behind the camera. And I love like, you know, just kind of the idea of having creative control is like, yes, oh my god, finally, finally, because I have such strong opinions. And I have such like, a really strong point of view, that like, it's really sometimes difficult to hold my tongue as an actor, because I'm like, I see this so different. I see this so differently, or like, I disagree. But like, you kind of are in like a submissive kind of role as an actor, because you're like a vessel for everyone else's creative vision, where like, you don't have control over a lot. You kind of like the director's telling me to do this, the writers, like I have to speak these lines, like the costume person put me in this crazy outfit that I do not think is this character, like the makeup artist is not very good, you know, like, but you take the fall you like, you know, what people see?

**Kimiko Glenn:**

Yeah, you're what people see. And that's what people go like, oh, well, they could have fixed it. And it's like, actually, there's so many moving parts, especially like in TV and film. Because like, it's quick, you know, you just have to get it done. And so there are quick decisions made. And you can't really like contest so much if you're not like in it from like a producer angle, or like, you know, top line star or whatever, you know.

So it's interesting. What about, I guess digging into that a little bit like Orange is the New Black was was such a game changer in many ways. And it was, I think, you know, one of the one of our latest, still greatest truly ensemble driven shows there, there were, you know, like a Taylor Schilling was like, the lead, I'll put in quotes, but like, it was still about everybody.

**Kimiko Glenn:**

Yeah, yeah. And so being a part of that experience, was that different for you? Like, in terms of like, what you were able to bring to the table and your character of so so or, you know, were you able to like, disagree a little bit or?

**Kimiko Glenn:**

No, really? Well, it was a very complicated thing. Because like, Gen G, the creator lived in LA, and we were shooting in New York. So it was like, you didn't really and we didn't do table reads and stuff like that. So it was very much like you showed up and you did it. And you asked questions on the day.

**Alan Seales:**

There was no table reads?

**Kimiko Glenn:**

No, it was like, it was very removed. So it was very like, that was a hard job for me, honestly. Because also, it was like my first big TV job, I had done some like, TV and film and stuff. But it was like the first thing that like, really, I was doing all the time. And so and I knew because I entered in season two that it was a massive thing. So I was like, Oh my god, there's so much pressure. You know, so there were a lot of emotions like mixed in with it.

And on top of that, all the all the women are like alphas and I'm such a beta, you know, and I'm like, I'm like, you know, a little like, shy sometimes and also like, the characters beta. So I was like, I feel so out of place, which is the point, but it's like hard, because you know, you're the only one acting this way.

Um, yeah, but it was an interesting experience in that, in that way. I would not have. I would not have guessed you were you would call yourself a beta from from your persona you put out online. And I know that that is always not, you know, you know, I contain multitudes.

**Kimiko Glenn:**

Well, but but I am like, very kind of like, assertive in certain certain ways, like in a creative sense. I'm like, I started becoming more like, this is what we're doing. I'm this is the choice, you know, because like, in this creative project, it is me.

**Alan Seales:**

Yeah. So it's like, I just like kind of laying down and just going like, you know what, it's what they gave me, you know, is not enough. Like I, which is like, I think hard for some of my collaborators, but also at the end of the day, we stepped back and we're like, yeah, it's really good. It's like better than it was before. So you can't really be mad.

**Kimiko Glenn:**

Yeah, you know, it just takes more effort, you know, but it's, I forget the question. I got two hours of sleep, by the way. Just to announce to everyone where I'm at. I just couldn't sleep.

**Alan Seales:**

Well, thank you for coming in. Two hours of sleep, jet lag. But so the ability for you to like, do you switch? Is it more of a context switch between like, okay, I'm gonna sit here on set, and I'm gonna do what I'm told to do versus, like you said, it's hard for you not to do that sometimes. So are you sometimes just sitting there like, oh, I wish I want to do this differently, or I want to do this other shot or whatever. And like, it's hard for you to say, can I have one more for me? Can I do one more?

**Kimiko Glenn:**

It is really hard for me. But I don't feel like, I don't feel like angry that I can't voice my thoughts. I just feel really scared to. Interesting. Because like, I don't always feel I feel often misunderstood or like, or like an imposition. I like don't want to impose, you know, and so it's, it really takes a lot for me to be like, can we just do that one more time? Or like, I have this idea, you know, I'm gonna pitch it. How do we feel? You know, and like, the idea of getting shutting shut down is like scary to me. I don't know. I think it's, it makes me nervous. It doesn't make me angry that I'm like, you know, sitting there in that position. I just like, I don't know how to voice it.

**Alan Seales:**

Where did that come from, though? Like, from from as a child? Were you? Where are you in the pecking order of children?

**Kimiko Glenn:**

I'm the youngest, the youngest. Okay, so that's part of it. I'm sure. Maybe. So yeah, you're maybe like your older siblings made you feel a little uncomfortable speaking up. Let's dissect.

**Kimiko Glenn:**

No, no, I it wasn't like family related. I think it's just like, I, I, I, it's just general, like in a general sense, like, whether I was doing theater, whether whatever I was pursuing, like, I'm a small Asian woman, you know, and like, that sounds like so typical, but it's like, people and I lead with kindness, generally, like I try and be like, someone who makes people smile, makes people laugh, like makes people feel heard and understood. I try to be like a welcoming energy. And then when I assert myself, people go like, Whoa, like, and it's just unexpected. And I'm not like, not assertive is a mean or anything, but just sort of like, definitive, like, Sure. Yeah, this is how I feel. This is what we're doing. You know, people are like, don't know what to do with that. You know what I mean?

**Alan Seales:**

Isn't that the patriarchy? I mean, like, you get a little cliche here.

**Kimiko Glenn:**

Completely. Yeah, I deal with it a lot. It's like really frustrating. I deal with it like, with homeownership, you know, like, with the workers who come through like, and I'm like, this is like, they'll try and tell me what and I'm like, this is my house. This is literally my house. Why are you? Why are you telling me what you're doing? Like, I'm telling you what I'm doing. Right? Yeah, just silly stuff like that. But it is like, you know, often, male, female, but also it is female, female, like, it's, it's just something that is kind of an unconscious thing that people do to people who are often kind, you know, and then, and then decide to like, speak their mind.

**Alan Seales:**

Have you started watching pluribus yet?

**Kimiko Glenn:**

No. Do you know about it at all?

**Alan Seales:**

No, I don't, but it looks crazy.

**Kimiko Glenn:**

Oh, it's crazy. I mean, the, the, the, I can't talk about it. If you haven't seen it, I can't talk about it. I don't want to ruin it for you. It's, it's all about like collective mindset and doing good as a, as a, like for the masses. And it does, it doesn't compute to me why, why people don't want to do that in general of like, just helping, helping others will help you. You can still, you are being selfish by helping others sometimes. Because if everybody succeeds, you succeed and they'll want to return the favor. So I don't get it. I don't, I don't get it.

**Kimiko Glenn:**

Yeah. I feel that. I feel that same way.

**Alan Seales:**

Yeah. We're going to take a quick break for a few commercials.

**Alan Seales:**

All right, everyone. Welcome back to the episode. The way I described myself to my friend the other day, I was like, I'm like an impatient cheerleader. Like I just, I just have a lot of impatience. That's like a core part of me, which is, I hate, I wish I was like a little more patient. But I also am such a cheerleader of like all my friends. I'm like the biggest fans of my friends. Like I, I like, couldn't speak more highly of my friends. I like, couldn't feel more full of love when I talk about them or like, when I think of them or when I hang with them, you know, I just like, I am such super fans of my friends.

And, um, I think that, I don't know, I think like it's just, why are we not all cheering each other on, you know, especially if we're all just trying to, you know, do good for the world and, you know, contribute something unique and interesting. And I don't know.

**Alan Seales:**

Well, so, okay. So along those lines, then you've got your TV and film and theater career, which is, I guess, more for the adults and your voiceover career is so like kid focused in a very good way. Right. And like, how did you get into that initially? And, but then like the two fan bases, is there any Venn diagram of overlap there, or is it just two completely separate worlds?

**Kimiko Glenn:**

Totally. I mean, well, like Centaur World has like all these Broadway people in it.

**Alan Seales:**

Yeah.

**Kimiko Glenn:**

So does Hasbun Hotel. Hasbun Hotel. So there is like a Venn diagram of like, and I think more animation is, um, opening up to like Broadway people. And I'm like, why, why? They can be big and goofy. Yeah. Why? And they can sing really easily, like use their voice. Like, I don't know. They're, I think it's interesting that it isn't like more of a thing, but I think that's part of the success of these shows is, you know, the, when you can actually sing, when you could actually like express yourself really well, like it brings people in and it takes people on a journey.

Um, but with the like pre-K stuff, like I played baby shark. I don't know if you know this, cause you didn't say it, but like, I played baby shark.

**Alan Seales:**

I did. Yeah. I saw the new credits.

**Kimiko Glenn:**

Yeah. Young preschool kind of stuff. I don't know. I like, I love it though. Like that was one of my favorite jobs because it just sort of was so sweet that you would just, it brightens my day, like seeing what the kids are learning and like just acting like so, so over the top in so many ways. And then sometimes we would have ensemble records and it was like the cutest sounding ensemble record because everyone's like, Oh no, you know, like doing these like really cute voices.

Um, so yeah, I don't know. I don't know what the question was. I'm out of it. You guys.

**Alan Seales:**

We are conversing. We're not, we're not Q and A-ing.

**Kimiko Glenn:**

Uh, do you, do you, I mean, your voice is so unique and I love it. And, um, do you do, do you try to audition with different like inflections on your voice or are you just always like trying to be yourself?

**Kimiko Glenn:**

I do. I do try, but I sort of have like lessened the trying because every time I get a job, they're like, I'll do something funky. And then they're like, okay. Okay. And then like, they'll kind of turn the knob, knob, knob, knob, knob all the way down to where I'm just my self and my voice. And they're like, yes, that, that. And I'm like, guys, this is just me. Okay. I'll do it. But you know, I just wanted to do something like kind of crazy, but all right. You know, but I do have like a very, it's like a blessing and a curse to have like such a specific sounding voice because I always cut through and I can always tell when it's me, which is like, makes me so uncomfortable because like, if I do the job and then they asked me to do all these other characters, I'm like, oh my God, you guys, you're going to have to like morph my voice or something. Cause I have like a very specific timbre, you know, even if I do something like, you know, out there, just, you can still tell I, I can anyway.

**Alan Seales:**

Well, you hear, yeah. And what you hear, what you hear in your head is different from what, of course, everybody else hears. Like my voice sounds totally different from what I hear in my own head. It's very odd.

**Kimiko Glenn:**

Yeah. It's a weird thing. Is it? But do you, do you like listening? Do you like listening to yourself or watching yourself more or neither?

**Kimiko Glenn:**

I hate watching myself. Really? Oh, it's so embarrassing. I hate it. And that's part of like the mental illness of being an actor. Cause like, if I weren't an actor and I was just like existing in the world, I would be just getting like natural feedback and I would be like, yeah, I am like wonderful and great and pretty. And you know, all this stuff. But then when I see myself on camera or like see myself interacting, I'm like, God, oh, Kumiko, no, you know, it's, it's like so embarrassing, you know?

And then it makes you second guess yourself in this weird way. And, but you have to constantly be like auditioning and like watching the takes and watching yourself on camera as you do the jobs and stuff just to like, make sure you're learning from the experience.

**Alan Seales:**

Um, but yeah, I don't, I don't love watching myself, hearing myself. I'm very, I'm very perfectionistic, so it's hard, but like, I do not mind when I'm like, yeah, I nailed that. That's awesome. You know, I feel, I feel really proud of myself when I think I did well, you know?

**Kimiko Glenn:**

I remember this in high school, I did a play where I had to like aggressively make out with somebody on stage and in high school.

**Alan Seales:**

Yeah. It wasn't a high school production, but I was in high school. I was a high school student, but I was doing a college. It was at the local community college. And I was so nervous for my parents to come watch. Cause I was like, they're going to watch me like make out with somebody. This is weird. And so it took like that anxiety of, of them being at that show. And then I did it and I was like, oh, well, I guess they didn't say anything about that specifically. And it was all fine. And, and I still remember that anxiety leading up to that and kind of like having to shove myself through that door.

**Kimiko Glenn:**

Yeah. You know what I mean? So I feel, and I wouldn't want to watch myself either. I think watching myself doing something like that, I, that would be weird. That'd be too weird.

**Kimiko Glenn:**

Yeah. It's interesting you say that. Cause I was thinking maybe this morning or last night, like I used to be so on edge or scared, um, to step into my sexuality at all, like to just be kind of like whoever I am. And, you know, because I was always scared, like, oh, my parents are going to see this. I didn't want her to see me in black. Right. Very naked in that. Yeah. And, um, I was like, oh my God, they're going to see this. So embarrassing. And then they texted me and they're like, great job, Kimmy on episode eight. I'm like, that was their way of telling me they saw it because that was like episode three or four or something, you know? I was like, all right. But then I like, I think I, I sort of obviously like now I'm posting all this like semi-explicit content and, um, I just sort of feel like whatever now.

**Alan Seales:**

Well, that's what I meant earlier. And I'm glad you circled back to it. That's what I was, I was touching on earlier. I was like that I wouldn't have pegged you as a beta because of how confident you seem about yourself, your own body and your attitude just towards life in general, because like what you, what, you know, in the video, um, uh, you know, the video for your new song, it's, it's very much like I'm in control. I'm the woman, Dami Mami, there you go.

**Kimiko Glenn:**

Yeah. And so, uh, yeah, I think so dig into that. Is that, is that more of ripping off the band-aid of vulnerability and being like, oh, I'm still okay. Let me continue.

**Kimiko Glenn:**

Totally not. I feel like, I feel like it's not, it's not been a vulnerable thing to be like naked or something. Um, I not really, I don't have like, uh, um, anything that makes me feel scared about that necessarily. Actually, like my, the part of my body that I hate the most or like, I get like really freaked out if people are looking at is my feet.

**Alan Seales:**

Your feet.

**Kimiko Glenn:**

I just have like a weird thing where I'm like, oh my God, my feet are like, ah, so gross. And like, no, they're totally fine. They're just normal feet. I just have a thing about it. Like they're always like when they're exposed, I feel really like vulnerable.

**Alan Seales:**

Do you have like long, weird crooked toes or something?

**Kimiko Glenn:**

No, they're short. They're, they're normal. They're like, you know, but I just, I get, I don't know. I have a thing against it. Like there was this one. I felt bad. There was this one episode I did of a show and, um, it was a salon scene, like a nail salon scene. And I get to set and I see the camera set up like at where my feet are going to be. And I'm like, no. And they're like, so the camera's going to pan up. I'm like, guys, no, no, no, no. And they're like, really? And I'm like, I, I, I, I can't even sign up for this. Like my feet are going to be in this shot. And they're like, yeah, is that right? And my, and so I was like trying to explain to the background actor, um, like, it's like cover my feet. Like when you're massaging my feet, just like cover it with your hand. And she like, didn't really understand English. And I was like, God damn it.

And I think like, I don't know. I think it was a swift camera motion. I don't know if I really like went back to watch it. Um, but it made me, I nearly like had a panic about it because I was like, I can't believe my feet are going to be like, so on camera in this way. So of all the things that you've done, being on stage, doing solos, all of this shit, that the feet is what gives you the most anxiety. You're perfectly normal, ordinary, everyday feet.

**Kimiko Glenn:**

Yeah. They're not like particularly weird. I don't know. Even my legs sometimes like, it just feels like very vulnerable.

**Alan Seales:**

Interesting.

**Kimiko Glenn:**

Yeah. Showing my ankles.

**Alan Seales:**

Well, this is like the 1700s. So I can understand that.

**Kimiko Glenn:**

Um, but when, when you're on stage, does like general, I asked you before we started recording, if you're like kind of an anxious person, you're like, yeah, who isn't right. If you're in this business, but like, are, are you able to, um, cope with that or manage the, the, I guess just the anxiety in different forms is, is it different forms for like theater, for singing, for film and whatnot? Or do you have different ways to manage that stress?

**Kimiko Glenn:**

Yeah. I mean, it's a completely different beast, all of them. Um, like, so I, I don't know if like why you ask is because of like the waitress experience. I don't know if you know anything about it, but like I basically, while I was doing waitress developed panic disorder, I did not know that.

**Alan Seales:**

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So that's like, I was contracted for a year, but I left at three months to take a medical leave because like my, my panic attacks weren't stopping. Like I was in it for about a month and a half and then it started. And so I was doing the show for about a month and a half with like doing, I was having like three to five panic attacks a day and like at least one, two, maybe three on stage at night. Like it was the audience would ever know.

**Kimiko Glenn:**

Yeah. Because it was like muscle memory. I was like good at hiding it. I've always been good at hiding my anxiety because like you have to, you know, so you don't seem like, I don't know, like, I don't know, you don't have to, but like it behooves me to. Right.

Um, so I, uh, I was really good at hiding it and it was this weird thing where I didn't like want to talk to anyone about it cause I didn't want it to be like realer. I didn't want it to be real. And, but no one could really tell. They were just like, suddenly she's like rubbing essential oils on her hands and like, you know, very like less social than before. And like, just seems to be like in her own like experience. And I don't, yeah, I don't know if anyone knew what was going on until like maybe many years after, maybe even after just after.

Um, but yeah, I, uh, I had to like at a certain point I had to go because like it wasn't sustainable. Like the, the amount of anxiety that I had during that show. Um, because when you have panic disorder, you are fearing the panic attack. So you're constantly like expecting it. You're on edge. You're like, I'm going to have a panic attack.

**Kimiko Glenn:**

Yeah. So, um, and it's just so much easier for you to have a panic attack in that situation because you're like at the edge of it all the time. So I, I was like not sleeping and not eating like I couldn't like the anxiety was making it hard to swallow and stuff. And, um, like all of this was feeding itself. And then you're going on stage, burning like however many calories by being on stage. And like, it just was like, something is not going to be okay if I don't leave, you know? So I left.

Um, and I found that that was a really hard thing to move through. Cause it was like, you know, Broadway was like my number one, like it was my childhood dream. Like all I wanted to do was that. And you know, before the panic set in, I was having the time of my life. I was just like in heaven basically. I was like, this is the best job ever. And, um, but there was a little bit of confusion, I think, cause I was also filming orange is the new black at the time, but I was still doing orange. And I think people were like, how is she? And I'm like, the thing is on set, you can say, I need a minute. Like I need a breath and you can take a breath or you can take a Xanax or whatever you need to like get through the moment or that day. And it's also a job I had for like four or five years. So I was just like, I knew like what the thing was and I knew everyone. And it was just sort of like, if I needed to say I have, I have to take a breath, they would go. Okay. You know, and, but Broadway is a moving, moving train.

**Alan Seales:**

Yeah. You know, you can't, yeah, you really shouldn't, you're not expected to barreling forward. And the times where I've had panic attacks, um, like off stage, the stage managers were like, should we stop? And I would just like run out onto stage and be like, no, we're not stopping. You know?

**Kimiko Glenn:**

Um, because I didn't, it felt so embarrassing to me to like, you know, to, could you imagine like halting a show, you know, because you were like out of body and like, you couldn't like feel your limbs, you know? But it's not uncommon. I know, I know. I hear now, like after that, uh, experience, a lot of people were like, you know, this happens.

**Alan Seales:**

Yeah. And it was, it was Patti Murin that first talked to me about it on this podcast. Yeah. And when she was doing frozen, she would have panic attacks during the show, just like, just like you and nobody and just bury it down and like feel completely out of her body and not remember how she got to the end of the song or the scene or the whole show sometimes.

**Kimiko Glenn:**

Yeah. So yeah, like I think she, she kind of ripped the bandaid off and, um, and then everybody was like, oh yeah, yeah, kind of me too. Me too. Me too. Cause you're expected. And we say it all the time in the podcast. This is the Olympics of, of theater. This is the best of the best on Broadway. And to maintain the stress of that is its own challenge aside from being a great singer, great dancer and great actor. If you are doing all three of them.

**Kimiko Glenn:**

Yeah. And also like, I think there was just so much at the time going on that was contributing to like, it wasn't the, like being on stage thing. It was like all of it that I was like, you know, filming another show. I wasn't getting a lot of sleep. Like I was doing so much press for waitress and, um, the album had just come out. Like it felt very like, like the spotlight was on me metaphorically. And also like actually literally, you know, literally, and it just felt, and, and also nerve, like this movie I had done just came out into theaters and I felt very like exposed. And there was also like gun violence stuff happening. I mean, there always is, but like someone had just gotten shot at the stage door and yeah, it was like a horrifying thing. And I was like, people know where I am every day, you know?

**Alan Seales:**

And so it like that idea, like freaked me out. Like there was an usher that ran down the aisle one time to like stop someone from filming something. And I almost ran off stage. Cause I was like, it, it was like this, like, you know, reaction of like all the things that were going on.

**Kimiko Glenn:**

Yeah. But it was a really, it was a really crazy time. And also like living in New York and I'm just like rambling.

**Alan Seales:**

No, this is fascinating.

**Kimiko Glenn:**

Okay. But like living in New York when you're like, Orange is the New Black was like so massive. And in hindsight, people are like, Oh yeah, that was a big show. But like at the time it was like the only show. Yeah. You know, it was one of the earliest big, big ones on Netflix. Yeah. I mean, it was a house of cards and Orange is the New Black. And that was it like in terms of streaming, streaming didn't exist until then. And so everyone was watching it and it was like international. And, um, so when I would step out of my apartment in New York city and such a demographic for the show, I would get like screamed at and bombarded and like followed and like, you know, and people would like grab me and take a selfie and run off and, and things like that where, or like secret film, but like very obviously, you know, I like, you know, it was very like, it was a very hard position to be in being that exposed and also like just not having the money to, you know, save yourself or like create a safer situation for yourself.

You know, you had to take the subway.

**Kimiko Glenn:**

I did not think about that. Yeah. Your, your whole private identity is all of a sudden just put out there. I mean, not, not your secrets, but like everybody all of a sudden knows your face. So you can't go get a Starbucks without having people try to take a selfie.

**Kimiko Glenn:**

Gasp and scream. Like it was like pop star status in a way that like I never wanted, you know, has it, has it, I mean, I guess it's calmed down, but like, is it a lot better now since the show's been out for a while?

**Kimiko Glenn:**

Yeah. I get recognized everywhere, but it's like, I know you. Yeah. But why don't I know you? Yeah. Cause they haven't seen it in a while or like sometimes they will. And it's way more respectful, you know? And that's all I will. I don't care if people come up to me, if it's like respectful and calm and not like intrusive, there were times where I would have like heartfelt, like I'm crying on the StubBoy platform with my friends, like having conversations and people would like run up and grab me, you know, and, and stuff like that. Or I'd be in yoga and I'd open my eyes from like shavasana and like, you know, and then someone would be like, like right above me.

**Alan Seales:**

No, it was like serious. It's cartoon creepy. It was really unreal. There were a lot of factors contributing to the panic and like the anxiety.

**Alan Seales:**

We're going to take a quick break for a few commercials.

**Alan Seales:**

All right, everyone. Welcome back to the episode. Did you have to learn to sit did to be comfortable setting boundaries? Cause like, it's not, it's listen, I always have, especially in those situations. I'm like, no, like it may, it made me like have a visceral reaction. I wasn't just like welcoming it necessarily. But when it's like that kind of energy where they, they are out of their mind because they are not expecting to see someone that they just saw on their computer screen or their TV screen, they're like, ah, they're like having a visceral reaction.

So, you know, like it's, it's just a hard thing to manage. But most people in that position are taking cars everywhere and don't have, you know, you have to like, I don't know that they're able to protect themselves.

**Kimiko Glenn:**

Yeah. Like in New York, when you're not going to, or from a set, they're not going to pay for your transportation. So you still have to take public transportation because this is New York city.

**Kimiko Glenn:**

Yeah. No, I, I, I get that. And that stinks. That really stinks. So, um, I mean, it is what it is, but it's also like, you know, these things make you stronger. Like I haven't had a panic attack since, since waitress.

**Alan Seales:**

Yeah. And I think it's just like my body, like after I got into like a safer, um, feeling, uh, situation. Cause like, I think I was like, also, it doesn't help to go back to the place. You're always having panic attacks, you know? So it's like a little PTSD kind of vibes.

**Kimiko Glenn:**

Um, but like when you step away from it and you go like him in the like comfort of my home and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Like you kind of center yourself again. And I think because that was so excruciatingly hard at my body, like as soon as I start to feel that anxious or start to feel like maybe a panic attack coming on, I'm like, Nope, not happening. Nope. And I sort of, I have more tools now cause at the time I didn't have like, I wasn't on anything like, like an SSRI, like a, like anti-anxiety medication or anything.

**Kimiko Glenn:**

Um, so I didn't have like, even like quick fixes or, you know, like it was on Zoloft or Lexpro or whatever people take to help mitigate that. Um, and I wasn't with a therapist either. So now I've done a lot, you know, surrounding my anxiety and trying to like make my experience of this one life to be much easier and better.

**Alan Seales:**

It sounds to that, that, you know, you found solace to expressing like writing down your diary, your songwriting diary, which is then turning into these songs, which is then like, you're putting them out for the world and people like them. So that's gotta be validating, right? You're like, I shared my soul and people like my soul.

**Kimiko Glenn:**

Yeah. I think my fear is that people won't like it or don't like understand it or, you know, but I, yeah, I do. It is nice. That's, but that's why I hid it for so long. Cause I was like scared of being misunderstood, you know, like people going, Hmm. But the more you put out, aren't the, aren't you more understood the more you put out?

**Kimiko Glenn:**

I'm really excited for more music to come out because I have an EP lined up. I, I just like know in the scope of everything, everything just helps you see me more clearly. Like hangout forever is just one piece of like a much bigger puzzle. And it's like. The next song is serving my time.

**Alan Seales:**

Serving my time. Yes, exactly. Because you get arrested at the end. The animals, the animals.

**Kimiko Glenn:**

Yeah. But yeah, I, uh, it's, uh, it's a journey and there, the expression isn't like, this is a very specific, like kind of sounding song and my other songs, like I don't really subscribe to like a genre. I just want to write whatever I'm feeling and whatever I want, you know? And so I, I think people are going to, if this song didn't hit for someone, maybe the acoustic version will, or like maybe, um, the next couple, I think the next song that I'm releasing a lot more is universally like, yeah, that's a vibe. You know, a lot more men enjoy that song. And, um, and I'm excited for just all the music there is to come. There's so much.

**Alan Seales:**

What's something that you haven't done that you still want to? In terms of like.

**Kimiko Glenn:**

Professionally. Professionally. Hmm. I always wanted to have like my own TV show, like, like as a, like a comedy, like I want always wanted my own comedy series and especially what would like just make my life is if it had anything to do with singing, like if I was able to sing within it, but like, not like, you know, saying like, say, you know, like, I was able to like, you know, there were dance numbers and it was crazy, you know, like that would just make my life, you know, it would be so fun.

**Alan Seales:**

I think you should call it. Kimmy's coming home.

**Kimiko Glenn:**

Kimmy's coming home. Okay. Yeah. Pitch it. All right. That's we've got a title. Let's work backwards and make our through line.

**Kimiko Glenn:**

Yeah. Sometimes that does happen. Right.

**Alan Seales:**

Yeah. Hang out forever. I was like, I just like wrote a song around it. That's cool.

**Kimiko Glenn:**

Yeah, that is very cool. All right. So, as we wind down, I want to play plot in 60 seconds.

**Alan Seales:**

Okay. This is not meant to induce bad anxiety. This is fun anxiety. Okay. Give me a number one through 17. And that will correspond to a list of musicals, popular musicals.

**Kimiko Glenn:**

Oh gosh, is this a test?

**Alan Seales:**

It's not a test.

**Kimiko Glenn:**

Oh boy. It's a fun game. And so then you have to win or lose. There are no winners. The points don't matter. And then you have to give me the plot to that musical in 60 seconds or less. And you can make up anything you would like.

**Alan Seales:**

Oh, so these are fake musicals?

**Kimiko Glenn:**

No, no, these are real musicals. But if you don't know the plot, I see. Feel free to embellish.

**Alan Seales:**

Okay. Okay. Okay. One through 17.

**Kimiko Glenn:**

Let's do 17.

**Alan Seales:**

17 is the musical. Six, go.

**Kimiko Glenn:**

60 seconds remaining. Six. There are six pop stars, and they're all really cool looking. And they belt their faces off. And they dance around. They prance around. Maybe it's like K-pop vibes. I don't know. I think that would be really cool.

**Alan Seales:**

That would be cool.

**Kimiko Glenn:**

Yeah. It's 45 seconds remaining.

**Alan Seales:**

Oh shoot. Okay. I don't have anything else. I've seen the posters.

**Kimiko Glenn:**

Six. No, wait, six. Is six the one that's on Broadway now?

**Alan Seales:**

Yeah.

**Kimiko Glenn:**

Okay. Okay. Okay. I mean, it's not on Broadway. Sorry, sorry, sorry.

**Alan Seales:**

Six seconds remaining.

**Kimiko Glenn:**

Okay. And everyone is fighting for their lives to be the first, the top, the lead singer of the pop band. Maybe it's like a competition show?

**Alan Seales:**

Is a competition to be the best?

**Kimiko Glenn:**

Six seconds remaining. Maybe. Okay. I'm getting close. I can't believe I don't know this.

**Alan Seales:**

I actually can. I don't pay attention. But yeah. And then someone wins.

**Kimiko Glenn:**

There you go.

**Alan Seales:**

Yeah. Six wives of Henry VIII, each telling their story in a-

**Kimiko Glenn:**

It's that historical?

**Alan Seales:**

In a pop concert style presentation to compete to see who has the most tragic story and to rewrite herstory.

**Kimiko Glenn:**

Oh my God. Wow. Who would have known?

**Alan Seales:**

Lots of people.

**Kimiko Glenn:**

Okay. Okay. Fair enough. Fair enough. That's hilarious. Yes. And it's very good. Great, great, great, great show.

**Alan Seales:**

Okay. So three standard closing questions that I ask everybody. If I can bring them up here. I don't know. I've done almost 500 episodes and I can't memorize these.

**Kimiko Glenn:**

Number one, what motivates you?

**Alan Seales:**

What motivates me? Honestly, my own happiness. And often that means what is making me feel good? What is making the people around me feel good? What feels aligned in this moment in time? It's not always like my goal is this and it is forever my goal. I'm constantly shifting to find what brings me peace, what brings me happiness, what brings me joy. And yeah, I want to have the most joyful life ever. And so it's like leaning into friendship, traveling a lot, cuddling my animals all the time.

**Kimiko Glenn:**

What do you have? What animals?

**Alan Seales:**

I have a dog and two cats.

**Kimiko Glenn:**

Yeah. Arnold's kind of iconic. He's a little bit famous. I used to have an Instagram for him. But yeah, what motivates me is just community and creating things and making and hopefully helping people feel understood or being understood myself.

**Alan Seales:**

All right. What advice would you give to your younger self and younger people listening now starting out down a similar path?

**Kimiko Glenn:**

Oh my goodness, to my younger self. I think she knew. She was like, you're going to be awesome. Whatever you do, you're going to do it and you're going to be awesome. I always had this feeling inside of me like whatever, like even if I don't pursue this whole acting thing, like I can pivot and I can be whatever I want to be. I just like I know I believe in myself. And so I've always been that way. And I just want to be like, you did it, girl. Like no matter like even if this is like the height I reach or if I continue on and be like this great, wonderful thing. I mean, I feel like I am already great. But you know what I mean? Like whatever I achieve career wise or whatever, like I just want her to know like you're you did it. You know, you're doing it.

And advice to people pursuing this. Is that the question? I mean, I always say, you know, always keep in check your own emotional like inner world and like how you feel while you're doing something. Like because there's this like you do have to persist. Like if you if you're not getting something, so much of it is just sort of like you got to be the puzzle piece that they need. And it has nothing to do with your talent or, you know, it's political like their cousin got the job or whatever. But like, it's all about building trust, you know, and so like, it's lucky for someone to get a job right off the bat. But like what people are tracking is like, is this person consistent? Can they bring it on the day? Are they going to like mess this up? There's a lot of money on the line, you know, and so like, they want to feel like you have what it takes, like emotionally, to like, you know, be like, you know, someone who can do the job, you know, and not just like in this scenario, but like, in actuality.

And so like, I think a lot of it is persistence. But I say that with the caveat of like, you have to make sure that as you're persisting, you still want it and you still feel passionate about it. And you still love it so much because like there is a lot of like, you're not getting the part, you know, and it can feel really personal. And often it's not at all.

**Kimiko Glenn:**

Yeah, because if you've gotten that far, it's not personal. It's like we wanted you, you know.

**Alan Seales:**

Yeah.

**Kimiko Glenn:**

Okay. Last question. Hardest one. If you could only see one show for the rest of your life, but you can see it as many times as you want, what would you sing?

**Kimiko Glenn:**

Oh my gosh. Like musical? Interpret as you will. This makes it super hard. Oh my gosh. I don't know. That's really, really, really, that's really hard. Because I think everything would get annoying at some point. You know what I mean? Everything.

**Alan Seales:**

Okay. I mean, my favorite musical is Into the Woods, but I don't know if I would want the blink, blink, blink. I wish. I think that would really drive me fucking crazy.

**Kimiko Glenn:**

Drive me crazy. Sorry if you need to edit that. But yeah, I, um, oh, show. You know, this is such a, people are going to be like, oh, when I say this, but like, there are enough seasons of this where I'm like, I feel comfortable saying like, The Office kind of hits.

**Alan Seales:**

Like I watched it, you know, back when it was airing, but then I re-watched all of it from start to finish, like sometime in 2016. And I was like, every episode is golden. It's so good. It's so fun. Like, and there are so many seasons where it's like the start to finish, it takes a while. So like, it's hard to like, I forget what happens already, like by the time I'm at the end. So I feel comfortable saying that. And, um, it is really brilliant at the end of the day, as much as people like to eye roll at girls loving The Office.

**Kimiko Glenn:**

No, it is brilliant. It's, I think there's so many different levels of comedy that you can take out of that and like the different performance. It's just chef's kiss, chef's kiss.

**Alan Seales:**

All right. So everybody, you need to make sure you listen and watch Hangout Forever. They're different experiences, listening only and watching. So make sure, um, where else can we connect with you? How do you want people to find you?

**Kimiko Glenn:**

Um, well, I'm on Instagram mainly. That's like my main thing. Kumiko Glenn, that's my name and it's my Instagram handle. I also have like a slightly, uh, uh, slightly different Instagram handle called Kumiko.wave, W-A-V. And that holds the key to like a lot more like different, maybe unhinged kind of stuff.

**Alan Seales:**

Um, and that will be more like, like extra behind the scenes and stuff. And like, I'm trying to keep my Instagram like a little more balanced because I am an actor too, you know? So like, I'm promoting a lot of Hangout Forever right now, but at some point, like the Kumiko.wave is going to be mostly like all the music extra stuff, you know?

**Kimiko Glenn:**

And so people can follow that as well. But I also, I also am on TikTok and I'm really got to get better at it because I keep forgetting, I keep, I don't open TikTok ever. You know, I don't use it. I only use it because my parents send me like cute animal videos.

**Alan Seales:**

Your parents send you TikToks?

**Kimiko Glenn:**

Yeah, my dad is obsessed with TikTok. Like, so they'll post or they'll, they'll put on the group chat like silly, silly videos. And so that's why I have TikTok, but I'm getting more on it now. I'm figuring it out and I will be posting more and that'll be like its own kind of thing.

**Alan Seales:**

Cause I know TikTok algorithm kind of like responds better to like talking to camera, you know, that sort of thing and like less professional content. So I'll be forced to be more vulnerable on that app. So I will be forced to be more vulnerable because I do want like people to hear my music and get to know me a little bit better.

**Alan Seales:**

So that tag is it's Kumiko, I T S Kumiko.

**Kimiko Glenn:**

Yeah. Just do like acoustic covers of your favorite songs or something. Just like turn on the camera and play. That'd be fun.

**Kimiko Glenn:**

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's going to be, I don't know what it's going to be, but it's going to be something that TikTok likes. It's going to have to be.

**Alan Seales:**

Well, wherever you are listening now, leave a rating, leave a review. Tell your friends I'm on threads and Instagram and TikTok and I'm still on Facebook because my parents listen.

**Kimiko Glenn:**

Yeah.

**Alan Seales:**

Leave a rating review. I said that already. Tell your friends helps the podcast grow and Kumiko, thank you so much. I've enjoyed this.

**Kimiko Glenn:**

Yeah. Thank you.