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[0:00] Chloe Tucker Caine: Hi, I'm Chloe Tucker Caine and welcome to The Theatre Podcast with Alan Seales.

[0:17] ♪ Musical number: "Just One Step" — performed by Chloe Tucker Caine ♪

[0:37] Alan Seales: Hey, everybody. Welcome back to an all-new episode of The Theatre Podcast with Alan Seales. That is me. I am Alan Seales. Today's guest is Chloe Tucker Caine, who stars on the reality show Owning Manhattan. And you may ask yourself, why is a real estate reality star on The Theatre Podcast? Well, she's got a massive theatre background and has actually turned to theatre to start selling these million-dollar listings. It's kind of an incredible story. Imagine going from an open call to starring as Sophie in the national tour of Mamma Mia, which she did, to only eventually find yourself as a power player in the world of New York City luxury real estate. Her story is how she basically went from being a self-proclaimed terrible bartender, as she puts it, who got fired from nearly every bar in town, to becoming one of the first hires at Ryan Serhant's brokerage. And we dive into how she kept her performing life a secret while building her real estate reputation and the trauma of being a child actor in L.A. and even the wild story of leaving college for an MTV reality show, Becoming Elle Woods, only to be kicked off the very first night because she wasn't prepared. It is a fascinating look at how theatrical training can actually make you a shark in the closing room and why she is now literally using musical theatre to sell multi-million-dollar townhomes. So follow her on the interwebs. Follow me on the interwebs. She's got a new single out that you need to hear, which is going to be playing right now as soon as I'm done talking, written by the amazing Michael Mott, so check him out. And now, everybody, please enjoy this episode with Chloe Tucker-Caine.

[2:08] Alan Seales: Today's guest is a dynamic performer, content creator, and real estate agent who toured the country starring as Sophie in the national tour of Mamma Mia and wrote and produced the digital series Chloe in Manhattan, which I can't stop watching. Now blending her theatrical background with high-stakes luxury real estate, what? She is a central cast member of the hit Netflix series Owning Manhattan, representing the Serhant Brokerage. She even just dropped a single called Fly High that you can find everywhere you stream your music. It is beautiful. She's balancing a career on stage, on camera, and in the closing room. Chloe Tucker-Cain. Thank you so much for watching. I'll see you next time.

[2:56] Alan Seales: Welcome to the Theatre Podcast.

[2:57] Chloe Tucker Caine: Wow, what an intro. So happy to be here. You have such an eclectic background. And I thought, like, you know, mine and some others, bridging, engineering, and performing, mine was a little weird, but yours is, like, off the charts weird, and I am here for it.

[3:13] Chloe Tucker Caine: We love weird. So, with the high level, though, we're going to get into how it all started, but at a high level, when did you tour with Mamma Mia, and then when did you get onto this reality show, working with Ryan Serhant, and all this other great shit that people just would never have put together?

[3:31] Chloe Tucker Caine: Yeah, that's a really good question. So I did the Mamma Mia tour, I think it was 2010 to 2012. And that was, I was in LA, I went to an open call, and they were like, you're going to go play Sophie in Mamma Mia. So instead of being in college, I had my education basically on the road. Then I got to New York, as you do, and I was waiting for the, you know, the ocean. What's the saying? I was waiting for the, to part, what's it called? Waiting for the sea to part. I was waiting for the sea to part of it all, and for, you know, New York to throw me a parade of, Chloe's here, and really it was the reality of, you know, get in line like everyone else. But, you know, I started auditioning, I did some off-Broadway shows, I did regional work, and then I, you know, I needed to make money. So I started bartending, and I was a terrible bartender. Hired and fired from probably every bar in this town. And I was like, I gotta figure something else out. So I started Airbnb-ing my apartment in Hell's Kitchen right up the street, and I would live with the guy I was dating on the fifth floor at the time. And I would make money that way, and I had this, like, great little business going until it got super illegal in New York City. And my landlord, bless his heart, he called me one day, he's like, Chloe, I see what you're doing, we have cameras, and you gotta wrap it up. And I was like, okay, I hear you, no problem. By then I had, you know, broken up with the loser that lived upstairs, and I had met my now husband, and he was like, you know, why don't you just get your real estate license? You're really good at it. Like, at least you could be doing it legally. And I was like, ugh, that sounds so boring. Real estate, like, oh my god, like, no. And I was like, okay, fine, I'll get my license. It's like a two-week course. And I just busted through it, did my test, and I was like, wait a minute, this actually sounds amazing. Like, what do you mean I could, like, make as much money as I want, I can work when I want, like, this sounds amazing. So as you do, I watched Million Dollar Listing to understand what real estate in New York looked like, and I saw Ryan Serhant, who's, you know, the famous gray-haired guy on the show who just kills it in real estate, and I was like, I want to do what he does, and I'm going to start copying the type of videos he makes on YouTube. And I told myself, when I get to 10 videos, I'm going to reach out to Ryan Serhant, and I'm going to go work for him. I got to about six videos in, and someone from his office called me, and they were like, hey, like, we see what you're doing online, like, it's awesome, Ryan's starting a new brokerage, why don't you come meet with him? So next thing you know, I'm working with Ryan Serhant, I'm one of his very first hires.

[6:06] Chloe Tucker Caine: Wow. And he's like, you know, I'm going to do a reality show, I want you to be a part of it, and that's what all happened. So this is pre-his reality, like, when he brought it all in. So he had a reality show called Million Dollar Listing for, like, years.

[6:21] Alan Seales: Right, right, right.

[6:22] Chloe Tucker Caine: But his new show, Owning Manhattan, they ended Million Dollar Listing, and then he pitched and packaged this new show based around his company, Serhant. I'm trying to put my own life in the timeline of his reality.

[6:36] Alan Seales: Okay, okay, I get it, because I remember watching Million Dollar Listing, and yeah, so now, okay, okay, I get it all, I get it all. And at that point, had you decided to, like, split, and really just being like, I'm done with theater, this is it, no more?

[6:51] Chloe Tucker Caine: 100%. I said to myself, okay, you know what? I'm going to forget all about performing, this thing that I did when I came out of the womb until, you know, my whole life. I'm going to just close the door on that, and I'm going to go all in on real estate. To the point where I didn't even want people to know that I was a performer. I didn't want people to think that this was just something I was doing on the side when I was really trying to make it on Broadway. I was like, I'm going all in. But I was secretly, you know, still taking voice lessons and dance classes. I was, like, going to Ripley Greer in between showings to warm my voice up. But, yeah, I really didn't want people to know. Until recently, I had some friends reach out to me. It's kind of a weird story, but within the same week, I had two Michaels reach out to me. One was Michael McCrary, who I went to Boston Conservatory with, who called me out of the blue. He's like, hey, I've been thinking about you. I'm a director now. I make these videos. Like, we should do something. Like, you need to get back in the game. And I was like, okay. And then another Michael, Michael Ferreira, who's huge in the industry now. He's a musical director. He was my musical director of an off-Broadway show I did called Death of the Moon about 10 years ago. Called me the same week. He's like, hey, I'm thinking about you. Like, what are you up to? Like, why aren't you singing anymore? And it was almost like this weird sign from the universe that it's like, okay, Chloe, like, it's time to go back to what you do. So we got together and I said, what do you want to make? And I said, I know exactly what I want to make. I've been thinking about this for years. I want to turn The Wizard and I and make it Ryan Serhant and I about how I got into real estate.

[8:45] Alan Seales: I was going to bring that up because that was, is that telling the true story of how it all happened? Because I watched that this morning and I was like, wow, that's very cool.

[8:58] Chloe Tucker Caine: And you just like plopped in and were like, hey, right. And like, here I am and get your dog off my desk.

[9:05] Chloe Tucker Caine: Yeah, pretty much. I went to my friends and Michael McCreary kind of put everyone together. And I sat down with someone named Richard Emilius, who does these incredible parodies. And I kind of just like word vomited my story of like how I ended up in real estate. And I really did, you know, they set up a meeting for me to meet with Ryan, but I was like, I'm going to work for you and I'm going to be your MVP. Like that all with my dog, like that all really did happen. So yeah, I mean, they really, like I have an incredible team that I work with right now that is really able to take all the crazy things in my head and make it reality. So I feel very, very lucky on that front.

[9:40] Alan Seales: Was it hard for you to, to accept that people still wanted to see you performing while you had like started to make this reputation in real estate?

[9:48] Chloe Tucker Caine: I think it was something deep down. I was always hoping, you know, I think if you're a theater kid and you grew up wanting to perform, there's this part of you that, you know, wants to do it so desperately. And at the time I was like, this is just for whatever reason at this moment in my life, like the pieces aren't working. It's not fitting. And you know, unfortunately I don't think it's a great trait of mine, but I very much, I'm like, okay, I'm going to, I'm going to close that and start something brand new. So it was very validating in a way to have these people reach out to be being like, no, like we believe in you. We've always believed in you. Like you need to now believe in yourself.

[10:24] Alan Seales: Well, cause like you can sing like for real sing, not just I'm doing a parody of wizard and I, but you nationally toured with, with mama Mia and all these things. And it has, I think the, the, I will put in air quotes, lack of Broadway quotes credits because Broadway is not the end. I'll be all by any means. It's, it's a notch in the belt, but it's not the goal I don't think people should achieve for. And.

[10:53] Chloe Tucker Caine: It's a good, it's that's good advice. Cause I think we all kind of grew up thinking, you know, when you're a theater person, like that is the be all end all. When you're right, it's not, it is something that's incredible, but there's other things you can do. Well, okay. So put a, put a pin in that because I want to come back and talk about that. But what was I originally saying? Oh, that you've, you've got this talent and coming to New York, like you said, you expected the season to part. You expected everyone to just roll out the red carpet. And there are a million and a half other people that are just as talented, if not more so. And it is so much about the luck, the luck of where you are and who you know, and if you want to be worked with again. And I think that speaks to your character. When you have two people out of the blue that are just like, Hey, what's up? I'm thinking about you. I think you should be singing again because that's how much I, I like you and how talented I think you are.

[11:40] Chloe Tucker Caine: Well, that's very cool. I also think it's, you're, you're so right. Like that is the truth is you're competing with people who are just as good, if not better. And I think the people that are consistent, that show up every day that go to the auditions, like they could actually be less talented, but they're going to do better. And that's part of it that I think in my twenties, I wasn't mature enough to really understand. Like you have to put in the work because if you're not putting in the work, like someone else will, and they're going to beat you every time.

[12:06] Alan Seales: That's a good point. Yeah. They are going to be, the people who don't give up are obviously going to be there for the opportunities when the luck needs to, to find, to pick somebody.

[12:14] Chloe Tucker Caine: That is exactly right. Right. So then when you were a kid, then you grew up in LA.

[12:18] Chloe Tucker Caine: I did. Yeah. Grew up in LA and to parent at least a mom who wanted to be, if I remember correctly, your mom wanted to perform or your dad? No, no, neither one did. No, no, no. But, um, that's funny you say that. Um, yeah, I'm like working on, um, my treatment for Chloe Manhattan, the scripted series. And, and you know, in, in that world of Chloe Manhattan, you know, the mom is wanted to be a person. So it's funny you say that because it does make a lot of sense, but no, she was in fashion and both my parents were in fashion. She was a fashion consultant and my dad was a retail consultant, but she was always like a business woman. Sure. So I think, you know, I, I started performing when I was like four years old. She like stuck me in summer theater camp and then I was auditioning. I was in classes. So it was always like a big part of my life. It was always the thing I was going to do. Um, there was never a question. Like I, I did it all through high school at this big, you know, music Academy. And then I was like, I'm going to Boston conservatory. That's the only place I applied. I got in on a great scholarship and like, that was always the path. So it's funny how things kind of happen in life really surprises you a lot of the times, like you just don't know what's going to happen.

[13:25] Alan Seales: Well, when you were a kid though, like did anything almost land or almost hit when like these auditions are going in and LA I feel like in LA, especially for child actors, what am I? I don't know. I just kind of get this feeling in New York. You could still be a kid and be an actor, but in LA you're either an actor or, or you're a kid. You can't be both.

[13:48] Chloe Tucker Caine: Totally. And there were so many things. I did a lot of commercials. I did a lot of pilots like Nickelodeon. I did a bunch of stuff with them. Um, you know, there's always the shows that it was like, oh, I got so close. So I can't remember the name of it for love nor money. And it didn't have more than one season where I just remember being 11 and like, got it. Like my life was over. It was between me and this one other girl. I'm like, you don't get it. And it just, you put so much value, especially as a kid growing up in LA on like, did I get the role or did I not? As opposed to, you know, did I do well in school this week? Did I, you know, have a good time with my friends? It's a very strange place to grow up if you're in that world.

[14:26] Alan Seales: And were your, were your parents, uh, like kind of encouraging you to continue it or were you just constantly like, mom, I want to go, I want to go, I want to go. Like, you know, because I figure when you wait relating to what you just said, there's gotta be some part of yourself. That's like, I'm going to make it so I can feel good about myself.

[14:43] Chloe Tucker Caine: Yeah. Yeah. I think a lot of, once again, it's like, you know, it's something I'm working on in therapy, but a lot of myself validation, especially growing up came from, did I book this role? Did I not? So that's something I've always really struggled with. My mom and I joke, she's like, you know, the only person that doesn't believe in you is you. And like, I think that's from the trauma of growing up and constantly feeling like you're competing. Um, but, but what was the question? We got into trauma.

[15:10] Alan Seales: Trauma, being a kid, were you, were you affected by, I guess, the rejection of,

[15:17] Chloe Tucker Caine: Oh yeah. So yes, I was very, very affected by it. And I don't even think I realized how much until I was adult, an adult. And I looked back, I'm like, you know, I performed at the Pantages in LA doing Mamma Mia. And that's how I got my first big agent when I was with this agency called APA when I first got here. And I think I was with them for like a month. And I was always in the rooms. I was always in callbacks. It was always between me and one other girl. And I think because I wasn't booking it right away, I thought I was failing. So I left one agent, I went to another agent and I just like, didn't understand the business of the business where it takes time. If you're being called in constantly by the same casting directors, if you're in callbacks, if you're in finals, like you are actually doing great where I think it's now taken me, you know, almost 20 years to understand that that's what success looks like as an actor in New York where, you know, it's, I wish I knew that in my early twenties. And I think I would have maybe taken a much different path. But at the same time, you know, I think there was lessons I had to personally learn to now be able to do it and flourish.

[16:23] Alan Seales: Well, that takes me back to what we said. We put a pin in the, the Broadway being the end. I'll be all of it all because it's not, I don't think. And because you can have a successful career doing lots of regional theater or lots of off Broadway or TV and film and the, and you're sprinkling in the occasional theater contract or like, there are so many people that I actually do know that supplement their income as real estate agents. It's a great gig because you can just like make your own schedule and, and go to auditions and whatever you need to do. If I could literally give any young actor advice, it's to get your real estate license. Because what a lot of people don't know is let's say you're at dinner and your mom's friend says she's looking for an apartment in New York city. If you literally tell an agent, you know, Hey, I'm going to connect you with this woman. You get 25% of the deal. So it's a great way to make extra money that people don't realize is like, if you literally just like hands it off to a real estate agent, you're getting paid and a lot of times like paid very well. Everyone needs a place to live, you know, everyone. So, you know, get your license if you're listening and you're trying to figure out what to do in New York.

[17:32] Alan Seales: I didn't know that. And now like I want to be a podcaster with a real estate license.

[17:35] Chloe Tucker Caine: Everyone should have their license. It is, you can get your license in two weeks and literally just by connecting two people, you can make a great income.

[17:43] Alan Seales: That's interesting. Okay. Well then you, you are deciding at some point that you're like, all right, this is acting thing. This isn't, I'm going to, I'm going to throw it away. And then you're going to perform it or you're going to real estate performing.

[18:16] Chloe Tucker Caine: Yes.

[18:17] Alan Seales: You go into performing real estate.

[18:18] Chloe Tucker Caine: Yeah.

[18:19] Alan Seales: Don't go anywhere. We're going to take a quick commercial break.

[18:20] Chloe Tucker Caine: All right, everyone. Now we're back. You're setting your sights on Brian Serhant and, and that brokerage and whatnot. And they reached out to you. So obviously it worked, but there are so many different levels of what you can do as a real estate broker in New York city. Right. So then I, was it, was it just a million dollar listing that was kind of like, I need that. I need that drama. I want that, that S echelon of, of commission. Like, you know, why go for that versus not just going out on your own and, and doing this independently at first?

[18:55] Chloe Tucker Caine: Yeah. When I first started, I was working for this company called triple mint, which is now the agency they were bought by them. I was in rentals and I was like killing it in rentals. And I was like meeting people on Facebook marketplace and renting them apartments. And I ended up being poached by this company called Douglas Elliman. And this guy said to me, Hey, I want you to run a rental building. And it was like my first year in the industry. And I was running sales on this huge rental building on the Upper East side. And I think it was around that time that I was like, okay, I'm good at this. And like, I can do it, but I do feel like number one, I'm not being as creative as I would like as a human. And two, there's actually a really big hole in this market. So that's when I started saying to myself, not only do I like literally need to be creating where I feel like I'm going to die, but no one is really making interesting content around real estate. Like, and so when I started, you know, thinking about it, who's doing it, I was like, wow, this Ryan guy is so creative. Not only is he selling real estate, he's coming up with these lavish productions and ideas. And I was like, that is a world in which I feel like I would really not only thrive, but could be really happy. Like I needed the creativity. So that's why I really set my sights on him because I was like, I don't see anyone else selling like that. And that's a language I know how to speak. I can look at a property like a director and be like, what's the theme? What's the story we're telling? What's the conflict? You know, what is the buyer looking at and not vibing with? I was like, I can do this and I know I'm going to do it well with him.

[20:35] Alan Seales: That's really cool. I mean, he, he sells it all as a story. I don't think any good salesman has to craft a story. You have to, you have to sell, you have to make the person you're selling to want, want to know what the end is. And they have to see themselves in the ending.

[20:48] Chloe Tucker Caine: Totally. And so, yeah, you're right. He did a great job with that. You do a great job with that. Like when you first proposed this idea to your team of like, I'm going to make musical videos about selling real estate, were they like, oh yeah, great, great, cool.

[21:07] Chloe Tucker Caine: Well, it's funny because when I first had the idea, I went to, we have a studio's team at Sirhan that makes incredible videos. And I was like, here's my idea. I want to make videos about how I got into real estate, but as musicals. And the thing is, it's like most people don't understand how to make it. So my team, like even my videographer slash editor, his name's Jake Primmerman. He's a genius. He was a, he was a dancer. So he kind of understands that world. Same with like my director, like the lens in which they see the world and how things work. Like they know how to make it. So like a lot of people don't. So what happened was I started making these videos that started going super viral. And I'm on this show, owning Manhattan on Netflix. And I was working on a townhouse and I knew it was going to be a storyline on the show that I'm trying to sell this like very quirky townhouse that has five baths and two bedrooms. And as I know, it's like a, it was a very strange property in Chelsea that had been sitting on the market for like two years. Like could not be sold for love nor money. I got this from literally a cold email to this woman being like, Hey, I'm at Sirhan like would love to talk about selling your property. And we were working on this. And actually the guy that I partnered with, his name is Niall. He was like, why don't we do like you're a Broadway girl. Like why don't we do something like Broadway? Like I see your videos, like that would be so cool. And I was like terrified because I put myself out there telling my story of real estate, but I had never actually tried to sell real estate with a musical. But I was like, okay, like not only am I trying this, I'm trying this on owning Manhattan in front of 250 million people. So I was so scared, but I got my team together. I was like, this is, this is the idea. Like there's five floors. Why don't we make it like a full musical or every single floor has like inspiration from a different musical? Like it was this very like elaborate idea. And I was like, why don't we have an eight piece band and why don't they all play out of the windows and a drone coming down? It was this very like huge idea. And I was like, why don't we have an eight piece band and why don't they all play out of the windows and a drone coming down? It was this very like huge idea. And they were like, great, let's do it. So within a week and a half, we had it written, choreographed, blocked out. And we actually filmed the making of this on owning Manhattan. So like the stakes could not be higher to sell it because I was like, well, if this doesn't sell, like not only is everyone watching me sell, but it actually means that like doing a musical for a listing is not a concept that works. Thank God. Thank God. It's sold from this musical. And then I recently did it again on this condo called 2527th Avenue that I did a musical for it. It went super viral. We just put that into contract. So it is now becoming a thing that I can say with my full chest that making musicals to sell real estate does work.

[23:47] Alan Seales: Do people come to you now like potential clients? Do they come in and like come make a musical about my property?

[23:54] Chloe Tucker Caine: Yes.

[23:55] Alan Seales: Really?

[23:56] Chloe Tucker Caine: Yeah.

[23:57] Alan Seales: I thought people would think it's so stupid.

[23:59] Chloe Tucker Caine: And even when the show was coming out, my mom was like, I just want to prep you. Like I know these videos are doing super well, but like, I think there's going to be a lot of people that watch it and watch the video that thing. It's like really silly and cringy. And so I was like ready for, you know, to get slammed online. Sure. All over the world being like, this is so dumb, but surprisingly the feedback in the comments have been so insanely positive that I was like, is everyone okay? Like we, you're telling me like you guys like this and you think it's cool and you want me to do more. It's been the most insane, wonderful thing that I feel like, wow, like maybe this really could be my niche. Like I could be known as like the girl that sells this, these incredible properties with musicals and people are like, they're loving it. It's really cool.

[24:44] Alan Seales: I feel like I know all of this, the, your life story is going to become an actual musical.

[24:50] Chloe Tucker Caine: Ah, that's what we're working on.

[24:53] Alan Seales: If anyone wants to buy it, we have a treatment ready.

[24:56] Chloe Tucker Caine: That's cool. But yeah, cause it's like, it's like, I don't know. Just the whole story of where you've, of where you've come from and what you're doing told as a, told as a musical because you've got musical number, you've already got the soundtrack written.

[25:10] Chloe Tucker Caine: I do. Yeah.

[25:11] Alan Seales: That's incredibly fun.

[25:13] Chloe Tucker Caine: Thank you.

[25:14] Alan Seales: All right. So you need to workshop this. You think, do you think it's like a musical or like a TV, like crazy ex girlfriend meets like a glee? Or is it a musical on stage?

[25:25] Chloe Tucker Caine: I think we have to ask the audience. This goes live. I want everyone's feedback.

[25:29] Alan Seales: Yes. But I think actually given, given where the non, the medium that you come from, I think that it should be a glee, crazy ex girlfriend type of like farce of musicals that takes itself very seriously.

[25:42] Chloe Tucker Caine: I love that.

[25:45] Alan Seales: And then, and then everyone will believe it. And then, then it will get translated to Broadway.

[25:50] Chloe Tucker Caine: I love that. I guess what's your opinion? Cause I've heard like mixed opinions on like, what are your thoughts on could a glee, like a musical TV scripted series work in today's world?

[26:02] Chloe Tucker Caine: I think so. I really do. It, it all comes down to writing.

[26:06] Alan Seales: Everything comes down to how good the writing is.

[26:08] Chloe Tucker Caine: Yeah.

[26:09] Alan Seales: Because like, that's why you look at marketing and I, I am as a putting my producer hat on. I look at the marketing and I say, are they selling the person or are they selling the show? And if they're selling the person, I'm like, what is it about the show, the story that isn't good enough to tell? Because that, that's what I want. I mean, you have to sell tickets. You have to put butts in seats. You have to get people to come and word of mouth, uh, you know, have some people in it that people want to come see. But, but then after time, over time, what is it? Like you look at something like a play that goes wrong, that, that just goes, that's going on forever. And you have like Avenue Q and, and, uh, the fantastics and these shows that just ran forever. And they're, it's the show that sells because the story is good. And the writing is so strong.

[26:51] Chloe Tucker Caine: Yeah.

[26:52] Alan Seales: The writing is good. The, the, the story is strong. So you have a boost when you like stunt cast or whatnot, like even Chicago, right?

[27:00] Chloe Tucker Caine: Yeah.

[27:01] Alan Seales: By the way, you'd be at phenomenal Velma.

[27:03] Chloe Tucker Caine: You know what? Phenomenal. It's so funny. You know, no, I just find it so funny because, you know, there was talks of me doing the Roxy stunt cast and it was really like, I've gone in for them. Like on the season finale of the show, you see me audition and it's for like the rocks, the it's for the Chicago, uh, casting directors. So there was talks. And I think it was very dependent on how does owning Manhattan do? Does it have a big enough audience where it could sell tickets? And like, maybe it's possible, but on the flip side, like I'm a Velma, like I've done the Roxy material back and forth, but like, I know that I'm a Velma and they've, they've never done like a stunt cast Velma, but I'm not really a stunt cast. So it's like, I do feel in my heart of hearts. It is a role. I will play one day, but I think it's like a, it's a matter of when I feel like you, I mean, you say you're not a stunt cast, but why do you say that?

[27:53] Chloe Tucker Caine: Because, because you can actually sing and you can actually act.

[27:57] Alan Seales: Maybe. I think, you know, they're putting in people with like huge followings, like Whitney Leavitt, who, you know, who has like a crazy following, like on socials and she's on like the biggest reality TV show right now. So I think they wanted that type of, listen, I don't know. And I also think they've never seen me dance. And I was like, bring me in, bring me in. Like, you've never seen it. Like I've been a dancer since I was four, like put me in. I already know the choreo. Like I did it in high school with Jerry McIntyre who like did it. The original Chicago, like I'm ready.

[28:30] Alan Seales: Pictures of Netflix.

[28:31] Chloe Tucker Caine: I know. Yeah. All right. Netflix. Listen up.

[28:34] Alan Seales: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We're going to do a dance episode.

[28:39] Chloe Tucker Caine: Yeah, exactly. You can do a dance studio. You can do a choreographed number. I don't want to give too much away for season three. We're waiting for the green light. So fingers crossed. I have a good feeling, but there's something in the works for my storyline that is actually happening. I think, I think really, really cool if we get to film it, because that's something that's so unique about, about you in the real estate world, in the reality TV world, because we've had things in the past, like, um, search for next L Woods, which I was on. Fun fact.

[29:07] Alan Seales: Really?

[29:09] Chloe Tucker Caine: I left Boston conservatory to do that show. That's a crazy story.

[29:11] Alan Seales: Wow. No kidding. Well, I mean, do you want to know?

[29:16] Chloe Tucker Caine: Yeah.

[29:17] Alan Seales: Okay. So what happened was I was in at BoCo four months into BoCo. I was a little freshman and it came out on MTV legally blonde. I watched it once and I was like, I want to do that. That sounds so fun. The audition came about and all my friends were going, I am like no more L Woods. Like, I just don't know that that's my role. I could do it. I did it. So maybe, okay, I digress, but we all went to this open call. I was in school and I kept making it through all the rounds. And then finally you got to this last round and they say, okay, listen, here's what's going to happen. You're signing a contract. You're in the top 15. You're going to be moved into this house and you're going to be in this house until you get kicked off. Now, the first audition episode one was this huge, like mock audition. They had all these people.

[31:00] Alan Seales: Welcome back to the show. Today my guest is Chloe Tucker Caine, a multifaceted performer and real estate agent who starred as Sophie in the national tour of Mamma Mia! She is a central cast member on the Netflix series Owning Manhattan and a top agent at the SERHANT. brokerage.

[31:30] Chloe Tucker Caine: Thank you for having me!

[33:30] Alan Seales: I think everybody wants to know how much of you do you still bring into all of that?

[33:34] Chloe Tucker Caine: I think I've always really brought myself in. You know, I think I am, you know, I'm an annoying theater kid through and through. You know, like I have a big personality. I've always tried to bring myself, and I'm the girl that brings her toy poodle everywhere. You know, she's not here today because it's cold out and she's a little fussy. But I've always had my own spin on real estate. And it just turns out that the more myself I am in my real estate career, the better I do, which I think is also a big lesson learned: be yourself, like be fully yourself and you'll find your people.

[34:11] Alan Seales: And is it for you? Is it like a performance?

[34:13] Chloe Tucker Caine: Well, no, no, no. I was gonna say, well, maybe a little bit. What I was gonna say was something about like, it's a male, I think it's a male dominated sort of industry. So then being a woman in this and then bringing in theater, which is traditionally also more geared towards women, like was that kind of a hard sell for some of these people?

[34:34] Chloe Tucker Caine: I mean, I think that's like a big reason why I didn't want anyone to see that I was performing. I just was so desperate to be taken seriously. And it is mostly men. And I think even the way I was trying to speak to people or come off, and you see that a lot in season one of Owning Manhattan, is like I almost felt like I needed to walk into the room and like almost be a little bit aggressive. Like I needed to really like, you know, say things with my full chest and be very serious about things. And like, that really isn't me. Like that is like Velma, you know, I'm playing Velma, like in a way, you know what I mean? Like I almost was playing a character because I thought I had to be a shark when I think motherhood changed me in a lot of ways because I was like, I actually don't like that version of myself. Like that's not what makes me feel like me. It's not what I want my daughter to see. I would never want my daughter to be like that. And so I really kind of shed the skin of trying to fit into this real estate world and was just like, you know what? Screw it. I'm going to be myself. I'm going to be, you know, the Chloe that I think people like and are actually drawn to who just tries to be good and like have fun and like kind of a softer side. And that's really what started all of this of growing into this agent and person I am now.

[35:54] Alan Seales: In the editing, in the final edits though, is there something that has been taken out of context?

[35:59] Chloe Tucker Caine: Because I know like I was talking, Cassie Silva, do you remember her?

[36:03] Alan Seales: Yeah, my God, of course.

[36:04] Chloe Tucker Caine: I did a pilot with her when I was like little for Nickelodeon.

[36:07] Alan Seales: Wow.

[36:08] Chloe Tucker Caine: I've known Cassie for years.

[36:09] Alan Seales: Wow.

[36:10] Chloe Tucker Caine: She's amazing. She sat right where you sat.

[36:12] Alan Seales: Wow.

[36:13] Chloe Tucker Caine: You're sitting now. Yeah, I remember when we were doing the search for Nextel Woods, it was like, she was edited to be the villain because they needed a villain in the story to have conflict. Right? And like, it came to a point where she was out in a mall and somebody dumped a soda from the second floor onto her head.

[36:30] Alan Seales: You're kidding.

[36:31] Chloe Tucker Caine: No, like really bad kind of stuff. So like, but in your world with your reality TV, do the producers like push you towards one way or another because they want conflict or are they trying to really just get your authentic self?

[36:43] Chloe Tucker Caine: I think season one was hard. We had a completely different production team around us. I think it was hard because in a lot of ways they kind of needed certain archetypes to make a show work. And I don't think they necessarily were like, you're going to be the villain, you're going to be this. But I think they definitely leaned into certain parts of my personality on top of letting things get really out of context where I think season one of reality shows are difficult because everyone wants to be on camera. You don't know what's real, what people are making up for the camera. And I kind of fell into the trap of like, there was one person in particular who is a good friend of mine. Her name's Jade. Everyone kind of knows this story that like, I thought she was making up a storyline about her husband cheating on her. Like, because, you know, things were that like crazy with people and you didn't know who to trust and you didn't know what was real. And like, that was awful because he really was cheating. Like, it's a whole, like, if you look online and kind of look into the backstory of it, I was just like, I kept saying like, I don't believe you, I think you're making this up for camera. Like, the story is not adding up. But instead of kind of breaking the fourth wall, it just made me seem like I was so cold and just like not a good person. And I mean, you know, I regret a lot of the way I handled that. But, but, you know, once again, it's like you live and learn is, is, you know, you can't get pulled into the what's real, what's not. You got to just look at what's in front of you and go from there.

[38:17] Alan Seales: I feel like I would be just constantly not myself worrying about all of the cameras around. Does that make sense? Like, like, oh, I'm just gonna turn this way so I can get a better angle. Do you ever forget that they're there?

[38:30] Chloe Tucker Caine: Yeah, I think now it's you get so used to it. And they really are. What I like about our show is like, they really are following our real lives. But the way they shoot it, they try to shoot it like a succession. So you feel like you're in a scripted show. But it's reality. So it's like, it's a reality show with a scripted lens, which I just think is like really awesome and unique. And it feels real because like, they're literally just following our lives. And it's I just think it turned out really, really well, especially season two.

[39:00] Alan Seales: That's interesting. I've heard it kind of go both ways in a couple different reality.

[39:05] Chloe Tucker Caine: People that I have spoken to.

[39:08] Alan Seales: Reality star, reality star, reality person.

[39:11] Chloe Tucker Caine: Sure.

[39:12] Alan Seales: Sure. Reality star.

[39:13] Chloe Tucker Caine: Great.

[39:14] Alan Seales: No, I've heard it go both ways. And I think, you know, like me personally, I don't know how I would handle someone is following me around with a camera.

[39:18] Chloe Tucker Caine: Don't go anywhere. We're going to take a quick commercial break.

[39:20] Alan Seales: All right, everyone. Now we're back. I had this thing. And I don't know if I'm alone in this. When I was a kid, like, especially a teenager, I would go out my go throughout my day pretending or imagining someone was watching me.

[39:35] Chloe Tucker Caine: Yeah.

[39:36] Alan Seales: When I smoked weed in my 20s, the same thing happened to me, I felt like I was in the Truman show.

[39:40] Chloe Tucker Caine: So I understand that fully.

[39:42] Chloe Tucker Caine: I didn't. I hadn't touched weed at that point in my life.

[39:45] Alan Seales: No, it might have nothing to do with weed. I would just be like, mine was more alien related. So I'd be like, oh, like, like an alien is just is looking is using my eyes to look through at the human race. And so they're seeing what I'm seeing right now.

[40:00] Chloe Tucker Caine: That's deep.

[40:01] Alan Seales: I don't know. It really kind of bothered me.

[40:03] Chloe Tucker Caine: Yeah.

[40:04] Alan Seales: For years.

[40:05] Chloe Tucker Caine: Yeah, I hear you. Like, I think especially when you're a creative person, like, you get these very intrusive thoughts. And I mean, I've dealt with that like most of my life. That's why I like drugs are not my thing, because it really makes all that like heightened, I think. But yeah, it's like it's something I think us creatives like all have to just like be careful of and like always like ground ourselves in reality, because I think it's so easy to get, you know, lost in the craziness of the world.

[40:32] Chloe Tucker Caine: It became performative. It bothered me for a while. And then I was like, you know what, I'm just gonna show off. I'm just gonna do I'm gonna do things that I think they will think is funny.

[40:40] Alan Seales: Oh, interesting.

[40:41] Chloe Tucker Caine: Yeah, like performing for this imaginary alien using my eyes to see the human race. That's how messed up I am.

[40:48] Alan Seales: You know what? I almost feel like why not think like that, you know what I mean? Like, why not? It's like if that keeps things interesting, and you're pushing yourself out there. I mean, it's tricky. I mean, this is a whole nother podcast, but I could talk about this stuff for hours. It's tricky.

[41:01] Chloe Tucker Caine: That's interesting.

[41:03] Alan Seales: Yeah. Wow. Okay, so fly high. Tell me about that. Why? Why? You're successful reality star, successful musicals in real estate. So now you're going full on songwriting.

[41:14] Chloe Tucker Caine: So I didn't write this. This was Michael Mott. Do you know? Do you know Michael Mott?

[41:17] Alan Seales: I used to perform at Busch Gardens with Michael Mott.

[41:20] Chloe Tucker Caine: Michael's an old friend of mine. I did not know he wrote this. Say hi to him for me.

[41:25] Chloe Tucker Caine: I will. Michael Mott is just so good. And I've followed his career for so long. Michael Ferreira, who's my musical director and everything I do, the one that put this townhouse musical director, he hired Michael Mott to be one of the background singers on this townhouse musical track. And I like knew who he was. I was like, Oh my god, Michael Mott, like, I love you. And as we were filming the season, production knew that I was in talks with Chicago. I had gone in for an audition like this was a whole thing. And they were like, you know, that's like really interesting. If anything happens with that, let us know. And I think what happened was the townhouse musical came out and it started going really viral. And a lot of the theater Broadway community started reaching out to me. And it so happened that that casting office arc called and was like, Hey, like, we see this stuff you're doing. Why don't you come back in and just like sing for us? And we were like, cool. Like we film it. And they're like, sure. So when I went in for them, I was like, what am I going to sing that like, it's basically a general audition that they're getting on camera, I need to do kind of two things at once. Like I need to sing something that works for the stuff they cast, I guess, but I also want to sing something that feels like very emotionally connected to where I am. I was talking to Michael Farrar, and he's like, there's a song that Michael Mott wrote called Fly High that I really think you should take a listen to. I heard it. I was like, this is the song. Like, this is exactly what I feel like where I am in my life. It's all about just like taking that first step and just like seeing where things go and being open. And so I was like, Hey, Michael, like, I know this is crazy, but would it be cool and okay with you if I sing Fly High on Owning Manhattan for this like a big audition that they're going to film? And he was like, I love that he came to the filming, like, it's really awesome. He's just such a light and just such an incredible, creative, really is an incredible writer and composer.

[43:50] Alan Seales: But you didn't answer my question, though. Why release it as a single? Do you want to get into like actual album making at any point now?

[43:58] Chloe Tucker Caine: Because like, as the person who constantly can't stop creating, I understand that you're like, Well, I'm good. I'm good at this. Now I got that done. Let's keep adding and adding and adding. You know, it's funny is before when I was younger, I was very into the recording world. I like got a production deal when I was like 11. Like they wanted me to be the new Jojo. Like it was very much what I did growing up. It was like a very big part of my childhood is like recording these songs, writing. Then you know, I just like stopped doing that. And then I went into, you know, I just went into another lane. And I think with Fly High, I was like, God, like, this is such a great song. And I know they're only going to show so much of it in this audition. Like, wouldn't it be cool if people could go and like download the song and listen to the full thing? And not only will people have it, but like, it's a song that I really sang for my daughter. You know, the whole thing on the show, it's like, they're like, why are you singing this song? And I'm like, I'm imagining I'm singing it to my daughter, who's two, but she's going into college. And I'm saying, you know, don't make the mistakes I did, like go for your dreams. And I was like, I want her to have that one day that she can like listen to and be like, oh, wow, like my mom did this TV show and she recorded a song. So yeah, now it's just cool to have it out in the world. And people, if they fall in love with it on the show, they can listen to the whole thing.

[45:14] Alan Seales: That's really smart. Are you going to do more? Do you want to do more?

[45:17] Chloe Tucker Caine: I think so. I mean, I think Clay talks about me doing like a live show and, you know, there's like a lot of things I want to do. I never really know which is the right direction to go in. I think sometimes like you can understand like when you're a super creative person, like you can do this, you can do that. It's like, where do I really put my focus? And I think for me, it's like, wherever I like really feel drawn to. And, you know, right now, I think it's more in seeing if there's legs with this like scripted world of my life and, you know, doing more Clay Manhattan type things. But yeah, it's definitely something I want to do at some point.

[45:51] Alan Seales: Well, you can do.

[45:52] Chloe Tucker Caine: Yeah.

[45:53] Alan Seales: Like a Green Room 42.

[45:54] Chloe Tucker Caine: Yeah.

[45:55] Alan Seales: You could do everything.

[45:56] Chloe Tucker Caine: Green Room 42, Studio 54, 54 Below, any other concert venues with numbers in the names.

[46:03] Alan Seales: Yeah.

[46:04] Chloe Tucker Caine: Yeah. Like for real, just I think put this together and like if you're not uncomfortable, you're not growing.

[46:11] Alan Seales: Yeah.

[46:12] Chloe Tucker Caine: You're right. I'm a little scared to do it. So maybe you're right. Like, but what if no one comes? What if no one wants to see me perform?

[46:18] Alan Seales: We'll rework it.

[46:19] Chloe Tucker Caine: Yeah. That is 12 year old you talking.

[46:21] Alan Seales: Yeah, maybe.

[46:22] Chloe Tucker Caine: That's 12 year old you not believing in yourself.

[46:24] Alan Seales: Yeah, no, you're so right. I gotta come here on your show more often. It's like a little therapy session.

[46:28] Chloe Tucker Caine: I think you need to.

[46:29] Alan Seales: I think you need to.

[46:30] Chloe Tucker Caine: Okay.

[46:31] Alan Seales: Okay. Maybe I will. So let us start to wind down with Plot in 60 Seconds.

[46:34] Chloe Tucker Caine: Ooh.

[46:35] Alan Seales: So I have a list of 17 popular musicals right here on my computer. You're going to give me a number one through 17. I'm going to tell you what musical you chose from my list. And you give me the plot to that musical in 60 seconds or less.

[46:48] Chloe Tucker Caine: I give you the plot.

[46:49] Alan Seales: Yeah. So just pick a number.

[46:51] Chloe Tucker Caine: Pick a number and then make it up if you don't know it. One through 17.

[46:53] Chloe Tucker Caine: 17.

[46:55] Alan Seales: 17 is the musical.

[46:56] Chloe Tucker Caine: Six.

[46:57] Alan Seales: Go.

[46:58] Chloe Tucker Caine: 60 Seconds Remaining. Oh my God. Six the musical is about these queens and it's these like very controversial women and they all get on stage and they sing a song about their relationship with the king. I can't remember which one at this time because I was not a history buff. However, they like get up and they sing these like incredible songs.

[47:12] Chloe Tucker Caine: 45 Seconds Remaining. Oh my God. Oh my God. It's like the best music you've ever heard ever. I have the album on repeat in my house, but they all wear these like different costumes and ones in pink and ones in purple and they just like all sing together and they do these crazy harmonies and these in these dances and I'm really not giving you the plot. I'm just like telling you what I love about the show because I'm like a six like fan. I'm obsessed with the show. But by the end there's like a whole plot twist and it's actually like this very interesting take and opinion about like women and like how they're competing but really like they do better when they work together and like, oh wow, I only have 16 seconds. And also all you want to do, all you want to do, that's like such a bop. And also the other one is like such a bop where she like sings about her like kid and if I ever like had a song to sing, that's the one I would do. It's the one about the stones. Oh my God. This is like really stressful. I love Six, the musical.

[48:00] Alan Seales: That was really fun.

[48:01] Chloe Tucker Caine: Henry VIII.

[48:02] Alan Seales: Oh my God. That's the one. I was like, I can't say the wrong king. That will be humiliating. Henry VIII. I would, I was going to say the fifth, so I'm glad you didn't.

[48:07] Chloe Tucker Caine: Henry VIII.

[48:08] Alan Seales: Yeah. So we've had a couple, sound of musics that were like curtains and Nazis, the end.

[48:13] Chloe Tucker Caine: Yeah.

[48:14] Alan Seales: I would have been screwed with that one. Like mountains and singing and there's like an apron I feel like she wears. I don't know.

[48:18] Chloe Tucker Caine: It turns curtains into an apron.

[48:19] Alan Seales: Yeah. Something like that.

[48:20] Chloe Tucker Caine: Yeah.

[48:21] Alan Seales: All right. So the three standard closing questions that I wrap up every episode with the first one simply is just what motivates you?

[48:24] Chloe Tucker Caine: Um, my kid, my daughter, my two year old, I just want her to live her dreams and go for it. And I want to, you know, be a good adult. I want to be a good mom.

[48:31] Alan Seales: Oh, I love that.

[48:41] Chloe Tucker Caine: I want to be a good mom.

[48:42] Alan Seales: I think you might've answered this already, but the next question is what advice would you give to your younger self and younger people listening now, starting out down a similar path?

[48:44] Chloe Tucker Caine: Um, yeah, I would say, you know, don't beat yourself up, you know, put in the work, stay consistent. And every no is just an opportunity for the right yes to come along.

[48:57] Alan Seales: Hmm. Last question. Hardest one. If you can only see one show for the rest of your life, but you can see it as many times as you want, what would you see?

[49:00] Chloe Tucker Caine: Next to normal.

[49:02] Alan Seales: With the original, with Aaron Tveit?

[49:04] Chloe Tucker Caine: Aaron Tveit and, um, Oh God. Yeah. He's like, what a, what a man that is. I'm such a fan. Um, but yeah, I just love that score and I just ball and I like smile and I'm just, that's my favorite musical ever.

[49:22] Alan Seales: Have you seen him in chess yet?

[49:23] Chloe Tucker Caine: Oh wait. Yes. I saw it the other night. Actually. Beck and I were just talking about this.

[49:28] Alan Seales: Good.

[49:29] Chloe Tucker Caine: He, those are three of the best voices of our generation. And Hannah Cruz.

[49:31] Alan Seales: Oh, and Hannah.

[49:32] Chloe Tucker Caine: What a star. And also Danny Strong. Like that is a tough book. He did such a great job, like trying to bring humor to it, making sense of it. Like it is a tough show and they did the best possible version and I, I love it. I love it. I, I, I was like, if that's one of those musicals where I'm paper, I'm like, why do they make a musical? And this is not something you need to make a musical about, but then you see it and the performances. Beyond. Beyond. Yeah. Like I was blown away. I was like, I mean, like what an, what an honor to see these people on stage one night in Bangkok.

[50:10] Alan Seales: So good. All right. Where can we find you online and connect with you and see all your fun musical clips and everything?

[50:17] Chloe Tucker Caine: You can find me Chloe in Manhattan on Instagram and Chloe Tucker Caine on TikTok. And you can get me at theatre_podcast. I don't know. You know, check the show notes, man. I'm out there.

[50:29] Alan Seales: It's all in the show notes, Chloe's stories and stories, stories, Instastory social socials.

[50:35] Chloe Tucker Caine: There we go. I'm doing great today.

[50:37] Alan Seales: You're killing it.

[50:39] Chloe Tucker Caine: I'm killing it. What a light you are. I'm doing the best I can today. Um, and getting over something in my throat. You can hear it.

[50:45] Alan Seales: You're doing great.

[50:46] Chloe Tucker Caine: I'm doing great. Check the show notes for everything. I would have the link to Fly High in the show notes and I'm going to put Michael Mott's stuff in the show notes too, because you got to connect with Michael Mott as well. And thanks to Welcome to Times Square for the studio we are in now. And Chloe, thank you so much. This has been wonderful.

[51:01] Chloe Tucker Caine: You're so awesome. Thanks for having me.

[51:03] Alan Seales: Oh, thanks.