This transcript was automatically generated and might contain errors.

[0:00] Alan Seales: Welcome to another episode of The Theatre Podcast. Intimate, personal conversations with theatre's biggest names. This episode, my goodness, Jackie Hoffman. Oh, I'm Alan, by the way. I forgot to introduce myself. Can I be Alan today? Okay, you can be Alan. You can be Jillian today. All right, I'm Jillian. Jackie Hoffman. She's my favorite. I don't even know where to begin with this reflection section here because she is just unapologetically herself. Yeah. And I went into this interview. It was in her dressing room in between shows. She was in her little Hello Kitty slippers and like a bathrobe and we sat in a dressing room and I approached this like any other interview. Big mistake. And quickly realized that I was just getting in the way of a stand-up routine. Her whole life is one stand-up routine. And I mean that with the utmost respect because she is just one of the funniest people I've ever met in my life.

[1:09] Jillian Hochman: Oh, absolutely. And I mean, she had me laughing the entire time. Got me out of my train of thought multiple times because she would just come out of left field with these comments that are just her. That's her shtick. Yeah. And it was incredible. I saw Zanna do five times when it was out and every show was basically just her improvving and ad-libbing and she would just go off and people would sit on the stage for that one. And she would just pick someone and be their friend the whole time and then this would happen and then she'd do the song and then she'd be like screaming and running around. She's just funny and original and she is the epitome of comedy. It's fun. We got into a little bit. She really gets her artistic creativity and freedom in these one-woman shows that she does and she's got, of course, the one coming up at Joe's Pub. My gosh. She just keeps adding performance and performance.

[2:03] Alan Seales: Because everyone wants to see her. Because everyone wants to see her. Everyone wants to hear this. But I mean, I'll just end here and say, all right, everybody continue on because you're in for a ride here. So before you get into it, please visit us at ttp.fm, show your support and help us keep the lights on via ttp.fm slash Patreon and visit us on social theater underscore podcast on the instas and the tweets. Tweets at us.

[2:29] Jillian Hochman: The tweets at us and the instas at us. Everybody, please enjoy this episode here with Jackie Hoffman. Here you go. One, two, three.

[2:43] Alan Seales: This Emmy-nominated, Obie Award-winning actress can currently be seen off-Broadway in the National Yiddish Theater's production of Fiddler on the Roof as Yenta the Matchmaker. She has an extreme number of credits to her name ranging all across the gamut of video games, TV, film, and of course, Broadway, which include Hairspray, Xanadu, The Addams Family, On the Town, and Charlie and the Chocolate Factory. Her TV and voiceover credits include some of my favorites, 30 Rock, Strangers with Candy, TV Funhouse, Late Night with Conan O'Brien, Family Guy, Dilbert, and the film Robots. She's about to perform her encore performances of her one-woman show, Themeless, on August 18th and 25th at Joe's Pub.

[3:22] Jillian Hochman: And 12th.

[3:23] Alan Seales: You added another one.

[3:24] Jillian Hochman: Well, the 12th was first and we added those, so you're saying them all right, just in the wrong order.

[3:29] Alan Seales: Okay, August 12th, 18th, and 25th.

[3:31] Jillian Hochman: Correct.

[3:32] Alan Seales: Jackie Hoffman, welcome to The Theatre Podcast.

[3:35] Jackie Hoffman: Thank you, Alan. Nice intro.

[3:37] Alan Seales: Thank you. You covered ground. We can actually sign off now. That was it.

[3:41] Jackie Hoffman: Well, I asked for a bio from you once before and you said, I'm Jackie Hoffman. I'm an Emmy nominee. Google me.

[3:50] Alan Seales: So, that's what I've been telling everybody.

[3:53] Jackie Hoffman: Right. That's because I asked you to push my show and you're like, why would I do a thing like this? Like I was some alien being from another planet. Why would I do this?

[4:03] Alan Seales: I wanted just a little bit of something. Anyway.

[4:09] Jackie Hoffman: Yeah, you interview me, you'll get a lot of something.

[4:12] Alan Seales: We're sitting here in your dressing room in between shows on a rainy day.

[4:16] Jackie Hoffman: We are.

[4:16] Alan Seales: You're in your little, are those booty, like sleepy booties?

[4:20] Jackie Hoffman: They're Hello Kitty slippers.

[4:21] Alan Seales: Way to your Tokyo fans here that I like Hello Kitty.

[4:24] Jackie Hoffman: There's Hello Kitty all over my station.

[4:27] Alan Seales: Oh, yeah. You gave me your Hello Kitty mug.

[4:30] Jackie Hoffman: That's right. I was drinking from my Hello Kitty mug.

[4:32] Alan Seales: Well, okay. So, tell me about Young Jackie. Where did you grow up?

[4:37] Jackie Hoffman: God. On to Young Jackie now. I grew up in Bayside, Queens, one of your five boroughs of New York City. Long Island Jewish Hospital. I went to Jewish religious school, broke out of that in high school, started performing in the high school plays to avoid getting the abuse that I was constantly getting from mean girls and mean boys in high school. And then the theater bug stuck.

[5:09] Alan Seales: I thought the mean girls and the mean boys pick on the theater people.

[5:17] Jackie Hoffman: Oh, no. This was the way you could look cool in front of those assholes, actually. So, it worked for me.

[5:26] Alan Seales: All right. Well, did you, do you have any siblings?

[5:29] Jackie Hoffman: I do. I'm the youngest of four.

[5:31] Alan Seales: Youngest of four.

[5:32] Jackie Hoffman: And like I say in my solo show, everyone's on 23 and looking, 23 and me and looking for more family members.

[5:38] Alan Seales: Why?

[5:40] Jackie Hoffman: You have enough.

[5:42] Alan Seales: Yeah.

[5:43] Jackie Hoffman: Well, did the rest of your family, did they perform or were you?

[5:46] Jackie Hoffman: They're artists in a different way. My late dad was a great natural performer, the funniest person I ever knew, a piano player and a singer. And he was also a great artist, a hand manual artist in the days of, he was a graphic designer in the Mad Men era when it was, when Johnny Hamm and those people were dramatizing it.

[6:11] Alan Seales: Yeah.

[6:11] Jackie Hoffman: And so my sister and one of my brothers also inherited that gift. No one else was stupid enough to get bitten by the theater bug, but they're like hand drawy, make things people.

[6:23] Alan Seales: So they're.

[6:23] Jackie Hoffman: Like, and I can't do that at all. I can't draw a stick figure.

[6:27] Alan Seales: So you're all creative. You're all artistic in your own way. Yeah.

[6:29] Jackie Hoffman: Pretty much. Yeah. Translate that to making no money. Nobody in my family makes money.

[6:36] Alan Seales: Well, how old were you when you started performing?

[6:37] Jackie Hoffman: You said high school or middle school?

[6:40] Jackie Hoffman: When I, not when I, I mean, I was performing since I was a kid, not getting paid for the first time I got paid for it. I was 21 and it was a six shows a day at Hershey Park in Hershey, Pennsylvania. Yes. I was playing Jane Wayne and shoot out at the Trail Blazer Saloon.

[6:55] Alan Seales: So you came, you came from the theme park world.

[6:58] Jackie Hoffman: I can't. Yes. From the theme park.

[6:59] Alan Seales: So did I, I can be there with you. Yes.

[7:02] Jackie Hoffman: I was at Busch Gardens in Williamsburg.

[7:04] Alan Seales: Oh my God. Were you in the shows there?

[7:06] Jackie Hoffman: Yeah. I did the one man show with three people. Strangely. That's a story. I'm called the Secrets of Castle O'Sullivan.

[7:13] Alan Seales: Oh my God. Did you see the show?

[7:16] Jackie Hoffman: No. How would anybody see the Secrets of Castle O'Sullivan? I wasn't in that theme park.

[7:21] Alan Seales: It was 10 years running with a million dollar set and a Jim Henson animatronic puppet, partially controlled by one other person.

[7:27] Jackie Hoffman: Wow.

[7:30] Alan Seales: And after we accidentally set off our, our released our evil ancestor from, uh, um, an enchanted mirror, that's where the third person came in.

[7:39] Jackie Hoffman: So it was a one man show with three people. We rotated the roles.

[7:42] Alan Seales: Was the man, the one man was Castle O'Sullivan?

[7:45] Jackie Hoffman: Aaron O'Sullivan.

[7:46] Alan Seales: Aaron O'Sullivan.

[7:47] Jackie Hoffman: Yes. Yes.

[7:48] Alan Seales: Ah. And was it, was it a musical?

[7:50] Jackie Hoffman: It was.

[7:50] Alan Seales: The magic of Aaron O'Sullivan.

[7:54] Jackie Hoffman: Yes. It, yeah, it was a musical in the height of the summer. We did 10 shows a day.

[7:59] Alan Seales: Oh my God. And did you, did you like lip sync to a CD?

[8:04] Jackie Hoffman: It was a track. The whole thing.

[8:06] Alan Seales: The whole thing. The speaking to was a track.

[8:08] Jackie Hoffman: Well, it was an animatronic puppet. So once, once the ushers, there was really no stage manager except to, to make sure the pyro fired. But once the ushers pressed go, the whole thing was just this big automated thing that just happened.

[8:24] Alan Seales: Wow. I mean, what was it up? Was it a giant leprechaun?

[8:27] Jackie Hoffman: It was always a leprechaun. He was like probably three feet tall. If he could stand. The only thing more creepy than a real leprechaun is a puppet leprechaun.

[8:36] Alan Seales: Yeah. He was creepy.

[8:37] Jackie Hoffman: They're like the Irish version of clown.

[8:39] Alan Seales: Clancy.

[8:39] Jackie Hoffman: Not funny and just creepy.

[8:41] Alan Seales: Clancy was his name is his, well, he's, he lives somewhere.

[8:44] Jackie Hoffman: There were two of them cause he appeared on two sides of the stage.

[8:46] Alan Seales: Oh, Clancy had a double.

[8:48] Jackie Hoffman: Oh yeah.

[8:48] Alan Seales: Understudy Clancy.

[8:50] Jackie Hoffman: Called magic. That was magic. All right.

[8:53] Alan Seales: Wow. Well that you, you, you just beat my shoot out at the Trailblazer Saloon to death. Thought I had something.

[9:02] Jackie Hoffman: Well, you can take my story. I'll give it to you.

[9:04] Alan Seales: Yeah. Cause they'll believe that I was Aaron O'Sullivan.

[9:07] Jackie Hoffman: They actually, uh, two years after I left, they let a woman do it and they changed the spelling of Aaron O'Sullivan.

[9:14] Alan Seales: Oh, was it a woman of color?

[9:17] Jackie Hoffman: No, it was not.

[9:18] Alan Seales: Oh, that'll be next.

[9:20] Jackie Hoffman: Well, the show's gone now. It's now some lunch with Elmo thing.

[9:23] Alan Seales: Oh.

[9:24] Jackie Hoffman: Yeah. Yeah. They totally gutted that whole thing.

[9:26] Alan Seales: Wasn't Elmo notorious for like touching kids in the wrong way.

[9:31] Jackie Hoffman: Wasn't there like a tickle me, I guess what, maybe one of the time square.

[9:36] Alan Seales: Tickle me time square. Yeah.

[9:38] Jackie Hoffman: The tickle me time square Elmo was not a big seller because they were hugging people inappropriately.

[9:44] Alan Seales: I hate those costume characters in time square.

[9:50] Jackie Hoffman: They're disgusting.

[9:51] Alan Seales: Yeah, they are. They're all fricking criminals.

[9:53] Jackie Hoffman: But I come from a.

[9:54] Alan Seales: Take their heads off and stab each other.

[9:59] Jackie Hoffman: I come from a Disney family and you don't take your head off in front of other.

[10:05] Alan Seales: Right, right, right.

[10:06] Jackie Hoffman: So when I see them in their Mickey and Minis and buzzes and everything walking around, just with their fricking heads off, I want to just go up and be like, you're screwing up the magic.

[10:16] Alan Seales: Yes, you're ruining the mystique.

[10:17] Jackie Hoffman: Right. And anyway, there's a, I guess, obviously no, no morals or regulations out there. You'd think since they're here illegally, they'd want to keep those heads on.

[10:30] Alan Seales: No comment. Okay, so back to theater here. Where did your sense of humor come from?

[10:35] Jackie Hoffman: Oh, God, I don't like I think my late dad gave me that gift. My mom's sister is like, I just had a fight of a funny family. Now they're tragic. But they helped make me funny, I believe.

[10:54] Alan Seales: Well, did you guys all just sit at home and just make fun of each other or?

[10:59] Jackie Hoffman: No, I mean, now I make fun of them on stage. But no, I mean, they were just funny.

[11:06] Alan Seales: Yeah. Is Yenta taken from your family at all?

[11:11] Jackie Hoffman: I think probably just by just being who I am and where I'm from, I'm sure I incorporate some familial traits. It's an old family, not a young family. And my three out of the four grandparents were dead for many, many years before I was even born. And I knew one grandmother for a few years. And by the time I knew her, she was already kind of senile and elderly. But I think I incorporate some of her.

[11:45] Alan Seales: A little bit.

[11:46] Jackie Hoffman: Was there any matchmaking in your family, like where you came from in Queens? There's a lot of traditions still out there. My mother tried to set up my brother who was lonely and single until very late in his life, and it turned out to be a disaster. But that guy with anybody would be a disaster.

[12:00] Alan Seales: I just want to know what they say about you.

[12:08] Jackie Hoffman: Who cares?

[12:17] Alan Seales: For pay, went through high school, and then did you go to college?

[12:21] Jackie Hoffman: Dang! What does that mean? Yes, I did go to college. I went to NYU Tisch School of the Arts.

[12:28] Alan Seales: Mm-hmm. For performing, I guess, then.

[12:30] Jackie Hoffman: For $25,000 a year. Yes, yes. School of the Arts, that would be for performing, yes.

[12:37] Alan Seales: Yes. Well, did you do, was it an acting thing or like a musical theater thing?

[12:42] Jackie Hoffman: They got the musical theater thing later, after I left. When I was there, they would send, they would farm students out to various acting studios, like the wacko, intense people went to the Strasburg Studio, the more haughty, waspy people went to the Stella Adler Studio, and I went to something called the Actors and Directors Lab that they just threw people in that were just tragic, and they didn't know what to do.

[13:08] Alan Seales: And how did that lead to Second City, then? Because you went to Chicago.

[13:12] Jackie Hoffman: That, yeah, that led to temp work, and then someone in that temp world suggested that I contact them, and then I flew out there and auditioned for them.

[13:26] Alan Seales: Oh, contact Second City. Yes.

[13:28] Jackie Hoffman: Because were you just sitting there, what were you temping doing?

[13:31] Jackie Hoffman: I actually worked for a now defunct company that the older people may remember called Ticketron.

[13:38] Alan Seales: Yes.

[13:39] Jackie Hoffman: Which was beaten by Ticketmaster, who I believe still exists, right?

[13:43] Alan Seales: Oh, yeah.

[13:43] Jackie Hoffman: Yes, it was called Ticketron. It was a controlled data corporation.

[13:47] Alan Seales: Ticketmaster still exists by charging you like a million dollars for service fees.

[13:50] Jackie Hoffman: Yeah, I know. Well, they all do. They're all thieves. It's such a ripoff. It's a racket, like everything else. Service fees, because they press a button on a computer.

[13:58] Alan Seales: Right. Well, now it's like, yeah, it's all automated now. Okay, so you were temping—

[14:02] Jackie Hoffman: Oh, God, it's already so long, and we haven't even gotten anywhere yet.

[14:07] Alan Seales: We've gotten to so many places. We've covered your childhood, and now your now defunct temp job.

[14:12] Jackie Hoffman: Okay, and a leprechaun. That's the highlight for me.

[14:13] Alan Seales: And a leprechaun. God, it keeps me up at night, that leprechaun.

[14:18] Jackie Hoffman: It should.

[14:20] Alan Seales: Okay, so you go to Chicago.

[14:23] Jackie Hoffman: How do you... Haha, Chicago. How do you... You contacted them. Did you submit an audition?

[14:30] Jackie Hoffman: I said I'd be grateful. I used the word schlep, thinking maybe that would be funny, and I don't know. I mean, then I auditioned, and then they said they would allow me to go to their training center, so like a work-study thing. So they saw some potential, whoever watched me and didn't hate me, and then I went to their training center, and eventually got funneled into their various companies.

[14:59] Alan Seales: In Chicago, so you were there the whole time.

[15:01] Jackie Hoffman: Chicago. There's a touring company, and then you move up to what's called the main stage, and the ETC, et cetera, theater, which are their two theaters in Chicago.

[15:12] Alan Seales: Were you there at the same time as anybody that—

[15:14] Jackie Hoffman: Yeah, famous people who you really want to know about, yes.

[15:19] Alan Seales: Okay, well, if you're not going to name drop, I won't ask you to.

[15:23] Jackie Hoffman: She rolls her eyes.

[15:25] Jackie Hoffman: I'm not name dropping.

[15:26] Alan Seales: Good, good. All right, so you are now in... Well, okay, so let's go back.

[15:34] Alan Seales: Well, I was going to skip ahead to Fiddler on the Roof, but I assume there was a lot that happened between Second City and now Fiddler on the Roof.

[15:40] Jackie Hoffman: Yes, you read it all in the intro.

[15:43] Jackie Hoffman: And lots and lots of Broadway.

[15:46] Alan Seales: Did you originally come back and get done with the improv, and then say, I'm going to come back and do musical theater or TV?

[15:52] Jackie Hoffman: Well, actually, what happened was, I'm dropping this name, that Amy Sedaris said that her brother David had written a play that they wanted me to be in. So that was the perfect out, because I had been there long enough, and it was time to move on with the next phase of life.

[16:07] Alan Seales: How many years?

[16:07] Jackie Hoffman: And a lot of people who did Chicago, Second City, went to LA to pursue that line of work, TV and film. And then I went to New York to pursue the much less paying, less well-known world of theater.

[16:21] Jackie Hoffman: But it was this play by Amy and David, and it was so fucking hilarious. And it got, like this show, it got extended and extended and extended. It was called One Woman Shoe, and it was one of the cripplingly funniest things I've ever done.

[16:38] Alan Seales: It's a great experience.

[16:39] Jackie Hoffman: Yes, it was at a legendary cabaret called La Mama, Club La Mama.

[16:46] Alan Seales: The Dump Theater La Mama. What year was that? Do you remember?

[16:49] Jackie Hoffman: Ninety-five, ninety-six.

[16:51] Alan Seales: So how long were you at Second City then?

[16:53] Jackie Hoffman: Long time, eight years.

[16:55] Alan Seales: Oh, really? Yeah, that is a long time for improv.

[16:57] Jackie Hoffman: Well, I'm afraid to move on with my life, as evidenced by the fact that I'm sitting here right now.

[17:02] Alan Seales: I don't know whether to take that as a compliment or not. Probably not.

[17:09] Jackie Hoffman: All right, so then you get in, you're in this off-Broadway show with the Sedaris.

[17:14] Alan Seales: They wrote it or they were in it with you?

[17:16] Jackie Hoffman: They wrote it.

[17:17] Alan Seales: Who was in it with you?

[17:18] Jackie Hoffman: Oh, Amy was in it with me. Jodi Lennon, who works in television, she's amazing. Sarah Thayer, who's married to Mr. Andy Richter, and she's a brilliant author in her own right. The late, great David Rockoff, author, and I'm proud to say he was a friend of mine.

[17:40] Alan Seales: Yeah.

[17:41] Jackie Hoffman: And okay, so then off-Broadway, how long between that and then?

[17:47] Jackie Hoffman: Well, I started, I actually hooked up with a gentleman named Kevin Maloney, ran a theater company called Tweed, and in their heyday, they used like the great queens of the day, Lip Sync and Charles Bush, and they would do gender-bending way before anybody did it. This is in the late 90s. They were doing all these gender-bending productions, and then Amy and I did a production for them, and I kept doing productions for them, and that's how I helped develop my gay fan base. And then I think what happened is, I think Mark Shaman and Scott Whitman saw me in one of those productions, and when Hairspray was in its like 12th reading, and they were about to launch and pull the trigger and go on Broadway, they said, we need one person who can do a lot of small parts, and then I think Mark Shaman and Scott Whitman said, what about Jackie? And then that started, the rest is history, and that started the Broadway career.

[18:45] Alan Seales: And that was 02, right?

[18:47] Jackie Hoffman: Yes, sir.

[18:47] Alan Seales: Yeah, 02, Hairspray.

[18:49] Jackie Hoffman: And...

[18:50] Jackie Hoffman: The original.

[18:51] Alan Seales: The original Hairspray. And then Xanadu was 2008.

[18:55] Jackie Hoffman: Yeah, seven, really. Closed in eight, started in seven.

[18:59] Alan Seales: Okay, so then the five years between, or how long did Hairspray run? How long were you in that?

[19:04] Jackie Hoffman: It ran five years, but I was in it for two and a half.

[19:06] Alan Seales: What happened in between?

[19:08] Jackie Hoffman: I did, the first thing I did out of Hairspray was the first Tribeca Theater Festival. Of course, a lot less known than the Tribeca Film Festival, but I did a solo piece by Paul Rudnick, which was better than the Leprechaun Animatron, if I may say so myself.

[19:24] Alan Seales: Well, the bar is pretty low there.

[19:25] Jackie Hoffman: Cyril's Magic Cloverleaf, or whatever the fuck it was called.

[19:29] Alan Seales: Okay, okay. So you were doing that, Xanadu came, and then Adam's family, is that, what do you feel really put you on the theater map?

[19:40] Jackie Hoffman: I don't know. Has anything put me on the theater map?

[19:42] Alan Seales: Oh, yeah, everyone knows your name.

[19:44] Jackie Hoffman: Well, that's not true. Thank you, though. I'd probably Hairspray.

[19:49] Alan Seales: You think so?

[19:50] Jackie Hoffman: If, yeah, if there was a map.

[19:52] Alan Seales: You put a pin in Hairspray, that was the beginning?

[19:54] Jackie Hoffman: Yeah, that's where the blue dot goes to the red balloon. Now we're at the red balloon.

[20:00] Alan Seales: Yes, you dropped the Apple map pin there, Google Maps.

[20:06] Alan Seales: Okay, so then you're going through all of that, and where does TV and film make its way in?

[20:13] Jackie Hoffman: God, I don't know how far back I can trace that. This is all so painful. What I'm going through to promote a goddamn solo show, it's unbelievable what you have to do in this business. On a two-show day, in between shows, I'm going through this, people. I don't, you know, it just, it started in Chicago, stuff around town, they would look at Second City people. I did, you know, little stints in movies. I used to have a commercial career. I used to have a voiceover career. That all went bust.

[20:42] Alan Seales: What happened?

[20:43] Jackie Hoffman: The business went all celebrity, I think.

[20:46] Alan Seales: Well, you're still well-known.

[20:48] Jackie Hoffman: Not well-known enough to get a voiceover in anything.

[20:51] Alan Seales: Well, I...

[20:51] Jackie Hoffman: You have to be uber well-known now.

[20:54] Alan Seales: Well, the social media game has a lot to do with it, I think.

[20:57] Jackie Hoffman: Yeah, I'm not good at playing it. I have very few followers on the Twitter. That's the only thing I do is the Twitter.

[21:03] Alan Seales: I know, I was trying to find you on Instagram. Couldn't find it.

[21:05] Jackie Hoffman: No, all the kids want me to do the Insta. I don't want to, like, have to fucking take pictures all the time. It's, like, hard enough to be on Twitter.

[21:12] Alan Seales: Well, what if you take screenshots of your tweets and post them on Instagram?

[21:15] Jackie Hoffman: Oh, God, that sounds so hot. That sounds so pathetic.

[21:20] Alan Seales: Will it work? I'll do it!

[21:22] Jackie Hoffman: Probably. I see people do it all the time. Actually, with your phones, you can type, or I think with iPhone, sorry, with the Instagram account or app, you can actually type text and save it as a graphic that then posts on Instagram. But you could also take that text and put it on Twitter as well.

[21:39] Jackie Hoffman: Oh, my God.

[21:40] Alan Seales: I'm very dizzy. All right, you'll have to write it down for me.

[21:43] Jackie Hoffman: All right, I could Google it for you.

[21:44] Jackie Hoffman: Write it in email. Thank you.

[21:45] Alan Seales: Yeah, yeah. But you did TV recently, Mamacita.

[21:50] Jackie Hoffman: Yes, my first regular role.

[21:53] Alan Seales: Right, on...

[21:53] Jackie Hoffman: It finally happened at the tender age of 57.

[21:57] Alan Seales: The Betty and Joan feud.

[21:58] Jackie Hoffman: Yes.

[21:59] Alan Seales: Yeah, so that was only one season. What happened?

[22:04] Jackie Hoffman: Oh, well, it was called a limited series.

[22:06] Jackie Hoffman: Well, it was called a limited series.

[22:09] Alan Seales: But it's going to... I thought it was going to do more. I was reading.

[22:11] Jackie Hoffman: I think... I don't know. There was a rumor that Ryan was going to do... Ryan Murphy was going to do a Charles and Di segment of it. But I don't know what happened. I mean, he's doing like 19 other projects.

[22:22] Alan Seales: Right.

[22:22] Jackie Hoffman: So...

[22:23] Alan Seales: But you should call him up. Be like, I'm ready for TV again.

[22:26] Jackie Hoffman: He knows I'm around.

[22:28] Alan Seales: Has he come to see you in Fiddler yet?

[22:29] Jackie Hoffman: Yeah, he has not.

[22:31] Alan Seales: No?

[22:32] Jackie Hoffman: It's not his oeuvre, but I did do a guest spot on a thing of his recently. And I remember very little because whenever I have to wake up at like 6 in the morning, I'm highly affected and I don't remember much.

[22:45] Jackie Hoffman: I kind of black out.

[22:46] Alan Seales: But I remember Ryan Murphy sitting across from me on the couch and saying, say something in Yiddish.

[22:53] Jackie Hoffman: But you don't know Yiddish, or you didn't?

[22:54] Jackie Hoffman: Well, I just said one of my lines.

[22:56] Alan Seales: Right.

[22:57] Jackie Hoffman: So apparently he knows about this.

[22:59] Alan Seales: Well, yeah, it's...

[23:01] Alan Seales: I can't imagine him randomly pulling that out of his ass.

[23:03] Jackie Hoffman: Say something in Yiddish.

[23:05] Alan Seales: The show just hit its year anniversary, yeah?

[23:07] Jackie Hoffman: Yeah, we did.

[23:08] Alan Seales: Yeah.

[23:09] Jackie Hoffman: It's supposed to be a six-week gig.

[23:11] Alan Seales: Was it really? It was only a six-week thing?

[23:12] Jackie Hoffman: Yeah, it was supposed to be six weeks at the museum.

[23:14] Alan Seales: No kidding. That's incredible.

[23:17] Jackie Hoffman: So we've got to extend it over and over and over again.

[23:19] Alan Seales: And then this is still an open-ended run here, yeah?

[23:21] Jackie Hoffman: They're saying January.

[23:23] Alan Seales: Yeah.

[23:24] Jackie Hoffman: So I'm hoping that'll be the nail in the coffin.

[23:26] Alan Seales: Are you over it? You're ready for the next thing?

[23:30] Jackie Hoffman: I'm ready for the next... Well, not right now. Maybe in January I will be.

[23:34] Alan Seales: Right. Yeah, I guess that's a good amount of time.

[23:37] Alan Seales: I mean, that'll be...

[23:38] Jackie Hoffman: Like my family says, if I'm still here...

[23:42] Jackie Hoffman: It'll be a year and a half.

[23:43] Alan Seales: A year and a half at any role is a long time.

[23:44] Jackie Hoffman: Yes.

[23:46] Alan Seales: What's the longest role you've done?

[23:48] Jackie Hoffman: Hairspray at two and a half, and I was ready to blow my brains out.

[23:51] Alan Seales: Really?

[23:51] Jackie Hoffman: Yeah.

[23:52] Alan Seales: Well, do you have a problem...

[23:54] Alan Seales: You were saying you don't like to move on. Do you like to be forced to move on?

[23:57] Jackie Hoffman: Yes. I like to have something to move on to.

[24:00] Jackie Hoffman: Here's this thing I'm going to drop in your lap.

[24:02] Jackie Hoffman: Minimal effort, minimal effort.

[24:04] Alan Seales: I get that.

[24:06] Alan Seales: I get that.

[24:07] Jackie Hoffman: That's why I'm here sitting in your dressing room.

[24:10] Alan Seales: Instead of the recording studio.

[24:13] Jackie Hoffman: Okay, so back to Fiddler here.

[24:15] Jackie Hoffman: Your anniversary extended...

[24:18] Alan Seales: When did you get involved? And do you know why? What was the decision to actually do the whole thing in Yiddish?

[24:23] Jackie Hoffman: Oh, that wasn't my decision. I believe that was Zalman Molotek, our musical director, had this idea.

[25:03] Jackie Hoffman: When were you involved with rehearsals and readings?

[25:05] Jackie Hoffman: Not before. It wasn't like a Broadway production where there's a year of readings and workshops. I mean, it all happened pretty fast. It was like my manager put the bug in my ear, and then a few weeks later, I was asked to audition. And apparently, I was told, the audition is just a formality. They just want to hear if you can grasp the Yiddish.

[25:26] Alan Seales: Well, you probably grew up hearing a lot of it, though.

[25:28] Jackie Hoffman: I did. Yes. It was a big part of my zeitgeist.

[25:34] Alan Seales: Why didn't your parents teach you?

[25:36] Jackie Hoffman: Well, my father came from a... His family was from the German side, so they were practically Christians. My mother came from a much more traditional religious home, and she would speak it to her mother, and she always wanted me to speak it. But I'm really like a lazy, defiant asshole, so I didn't learn it. And then when I got here, I was like, boy, am I sorry I didn't learn this.

[25:56] Alan Seales: Was it hard?

[25:59] Jackie Hoffman: Yeah. I mean, yeah, learning any role is hard, but it was very daunting, but we had a lot of great help.

[26:06] Alan Seales: Well, how did you learn it? Did you learn the English and then learn the phonetic?

[26:11] Jackie Hoffman: Yes. Yeah, I learned it phonetically. We learned the Yiddish phonetically, and we would rehearse it in English, and then we would rehearse it in Yiddish.

[26:19] Alan Seales: Oh, interesting.

[26:20] Jackie Hoffman: But I just kept drilling and drilling and drilling and drilling.

[26:23] Alan Seales: So could all of you do an English version of it if you had to?

[26:26] Jackie Hoffman: If we had to, sure.

[26:28] Alan Seales: Because you could do anything if you had to.

[26:29] Jackie Hoffman: I'm right.

[26:30] Alan Seales: If you weren't paid enough.

[26:31] Jackie Hoffman: Look at what I'm doing right now.

[26:36] Alan Seales: All right, well, tell me about...

[26:37] Jackie Hoffman: All right, let's get to my one-person show.

[26:38] Alan Seales: Yes, I was going to say, tell me about the one-woman show.

[26:41] Jackie Hoffman: Yay! Themeless. What's that mean?

[26:44] Jackie Hoffman: Themeless. Well, that was when we just came up with it, and all we had was a title, but no show yet. So we kind of like themeless, like seamless, and on the beautiful flyer, it's printed like the word seamless. And now we kept putting stuff in, and we kept creating and creating and building, and now it's like fake news. And at the end of the show, I say, well, I'm sorry, ladies and gentlemen, despite our best efforts, it looks like we had a theme. So we do, but there's like a lot of funny shit. And it was like magic. My show is all because I have a great director and a great musical director, and they all come together.

[27:19] Alan Seales: Mm-hmm. Do you enjoy the writing of your original content like this?

[27:27] Jackie Hoffman: That's a really good question. I will put off writing to the point where I would like, let's see, what can I lick off the underside of the toilet? Like to delay writing, because I hate it so much. But then when I get going, and then my director, Michael Shirelli, is such an inspiration that when we bounce off each other, the shit just grows.

[27:48] Alan Seales: Right.

[27:48] Jackie Hoffman: And I don't have an imagination, so I just talk about life experiences, but do it in the most, the funniest, most yet tragic, meanest, darkest way possible. So I just kind of log. Like the one-woman show I did about Feud, Memoir Cita, I kept a Feud diary, and I would read it like Jessica and all this stuff. And so, yeah, so like any other writer, once it's written, it sure is enjoyable. And there's nothing more rewarding. Like this show we premiered, I do original songs. I write the lyrics, and Bobby, the musical director, writes these unbelievable melodies. And then we premiered three brand new ones for this show, so it's thrilling. And they all worked.

[28:35] Alan Seales: Wow.

[28:35] Jackie Hoffman: Yeah, it's very exciting.

[28:36] Alan Seales: You sell albums of the original music too, yeah?

[28:39] Jackie Hoffman: There's one album. There's so Jackie Hoffman Live at Joe's Pub, but I've certainly written a lot there to fill out a second one. But like anything, this is why I don't do Instagram. This is why I don't do any other projects, because I'm like, oh, so I'm going to have four followers, so no one's going to buy it, so this will be another thing I can fail at, so this can be another thing no one will pay attention to. That's my approach. That's my life approach. Use it, go out there, conquer the world.

[29:07] Alan Seales: Assuming you're going to fail.

[29:08] Jackie Hoffman: Yes. That's how I roll. That's why I don't do much.

[29:13] Alan Seales: You really think that everything you've done now, you still think you're not succeeding?

[29:19] Jackie Hoffman: I make a living.

[29:21] Alan Seales: Right. Well, you're surviving in New York.

[29:23] Jackie Hoffman: Yes.

[29:23] Alan Seales: Which is not a cheap place.

[29:25] Jackie Hoffman: No. I have rent stabilized, but not mentally.

[29:29] Alan Seales: That's a tweet.

[29:32] Jackie Hoffman: I saw your tweets the other night. It was last night you were talking about the guy, the homeless guy combing the lice out of his hair.

[29:37] Alan Seales: Yeah.

[29:37] Jackie Hoffman: I like that you're basically blogging, journaling your whole existence.

[29:42] Alan Seales: The walk home. Yeah. The walk home is intense, man. Up and down 9th Avenue, which is a cakewalk compared to 8th.

[29:49] Jackie Hoffman: Yeah.

[29:50] Alan Seales: That's the one thing. This theater, you do the 9th Avenue walk. Broadway, you do the 8th Avenue walk, so I say that to myself. Well, you're not going to make it. I say that to myself. Well, you're not on Broadway, but you're not doing that 8th Avenue walk. That's horrible.

[30:01] Jackie Hoffman: That is a special type of hell.

[30:04] Alan Seales: With the tourists and the heat.

[30:06] Jackie Hoffman: Yeah. No, you can't move.

[30:07] Alan Seales: Yeah. Can't move at all. Okay. So, themeless. Is that your creative outlet, though?

[30:15] Jackie Hoffman: Yeah. That's where my real joy is, and that's where my black heart is. Those are the most satisfying, and it's what I'm restricted in a role, even though I'm loving this. This is where I shine, and you can really see all the shit I can do and sing. It's really viciously funny stand-up combined with original songs, so it's a very unique format. They're kind of like one-woman musicals, like the Calarni of Sistio Leprechaun, or whatever the hell your thing was called. I'm trying to call it back. I don't remember the name. So, yeah. It's definitely the most satisfying, and you'd think I would do it more, but the laziness terror cocktail is what cripples me. So, come see it when it happens, folks, because it's rare, and it's damn good.

[31:04] Alan Seales: How often do you do the shows?

[31:06] Jackie Hoffman: Like one a year, a couple a year.

[31:09] Alan Seales: Oh, so that's not very frequently.

[31:10] Jackie Hoffman: Sometimes I do gigs elsewhere.

[31:14] Alan Seales: So, you were originally only planning to do this once.

[31:15] Jackie Hoffman: I would call it a tour.

[31:17] Alan Seales: Right.

[31:18] Jackie Hoffman: Yeah, but this was supposed to be one show, and now we've added three.

[31:22] Alan Seales: Right, right. So, obviously, you've got a following. People like you.

[31:28] Jackie Hoffman: A small one, but you're gonna make it grow.

[31:30] Alan Seales: That's right. That's right. Yes, so...

[31:32] Jackie Hoffman: Well, I don't know if they like me, but I think they're just in for the appalling, what is she gonna say?

[31:39] Alan Seales: Do you feel pressure about that?

[31:42] Jackie Hoffman: Well, this is, interestingly enough, now in the era, the comedy-crushing, humorless era that we're living in, we have one of the songs that we debuted is called Join the Conversation, and it's all about how you're summoned to join this conversation, but that you can't say anything. And so, the audience really dug it, and then there were points throughout the evening where they got... And it never used to be that way, and it's really... The landscape has really changed, and it was very interesting. I mean, all the shit killed, but there were things that... There were some things I do where I deal with the anguish of life through... Can you still say the words black humor? Can you say that?

[32:24] Alan Seales: You can say whatever you want.

[32:25] Jackie Hoffman: Okay. But that's how I cope. So, some of the shit is so dark and so mean and so shockingly mean that when it got to a certain level, the audience would retreat, and then we'd get them back. It was really interesting.

[32:41] Alan Seales: Yeah, I guess you have to ride that, because we're in a very sensitive time right now.

[32:46] Jackie Hoffman: Yeah, like way too sensitive.

[32:48] Alan Seales: You think it's too sensitive?

[32:49] Jackie Hoffman: Oh, God, yeah. I mean, there's sensitive that makes sense, and then there's Twitter-sensitive, which is self-righteousness with no intelligence behind it. I call it the look at what a good person I am.

[33:04] Alan Seales: Right.

[33:04] Jackie Hoffman: Yeah.

[33:04] Alan Seales: Presenting your best self when you're really hating...

[33:07] Jackie Hoffman: Well, what you think is supposed to be the best self, but you have no idea what the fuck you're talking about.

[33:13] Jackie Hoffman: For the most part. Oh, yeah, the internet is horrible, especially when you get to YouTube comments or whatever the case is.

[33:20] Alan Seales: Yeah, I keep it to a minimum.

[33:22] Jackie Hoffman: Yeah, you can't read them. You can't read them. You can't get affected by them. Actually, I like when Jimmy Kimmel has celebrities read mean tweets about themselves. I think that's...

[33:34] Alan Seales: Oh, yeah.

[33:35] Jackie Hoffman: Yeah.

[33:35] Alan Seales: That's kind of great.

[33:36] Jackie Hoffman: Yeah. You should go on and find some mean ones about yourself.

[33:40] Jackie Hoffman: No, I'm not enough of a name. Kimmel doesn't want me.

[33:43] Alan Seales: No, I mean, just start retweeting people. Retweeting people to talk shit about you and call them out.

[33:48] Jackie Hoffman: Yes, I remember there was... After one of the mass shootings, don't worry, I'll be more specific. After the Parkland and the Parkland students performed...

[33:59] Jackie Hoffman: ...on the Tony Awards. And I tweeted, all the other high schools who had school shootings are so jealous right now.

[34:10] Alan Seales: Thank you. Thank you. That's the reaction it's supposed to get.

[34:17] Jackie Hoffman: And then someone retweeted it and said, let's not forget what a horrible tweet this is. And it's like, there you go. And that's what a lot of... That's the theme of ThemeWorks.

[34:30] Alan Seales: Oh, that's horrible, but it's funny.

[34:32] Jackie Hoffman: Yes, exactly. That's Jackie Hoffman. That's horrible, but it's funny.

[34:39] Alan Seales: Can we wrap up now? I think that was the perfect end to a perfect day.

[34:43] Jackie Hoffman: Actually, yeah, we can end it here. I've got three standard closing questions that I ask everybody on the podcast.

[34:49] Alan Seales: Bring it. Bring it.

[34:50] Jackie Hoffman: First one is, what motivates you?

[34:53] Jackie Hoffman: Very simple. Being able to eat afterwards.

[34:59] Alan Seales: All right. And what advice would you give to your younger self?

[35:03] Jackie Hoffman: Oh, God.

[35:09] Jackie Hoffman: You've obviously been asked this before.

[35:10] Jackie Hoffman: Oh, God, this is such poison. Stop thinking that it's gonna get better.

[35:28] Jackie Hoffman: Because it never will.

[35:30] Alan Seales: And then the last question, if you could only see one show for the rest of your life, but you can see it as many times as you want, what would you say?

[35:34] Jackie Hoffman: Well, that's easy. It would be Themeless at Joe's Pub, August 12th, August 18th, and August 25th at 9.30pm.

[35:44] Alan Seales: Right. Fair enough.

[35:45] Jackie Hoffman: So we can find you on Twitter at Jackie Hoffman 16, on Facebook slash official Jackie Hoffman.

[35:53] Jackie Hoffman: Of course, you have your website, Jackie Hoffman.

[35:54] Jackie Hoffman: Oh, don't go there.

[35:56] Alan Seales: Okay, don't go there.

[35:57] Jackie Hoffman: Don't go there. I haven't been there in years. It's tragic.

[35:59] Alan Seales: There's a couple of broken links, I have to say.

[36:01] Jackie Hoffman: I was there the other night.

[36:03] Alan Seales: Yeah, sorry.

[36:04] Jackie Hoffman: Okay.

[36:04] Jackie Hoffman: I haven't paid attention to it. It's like my space.

[36:08] Alan Seales: Cool. Yeah, you can get more of me in the theater podcast at the theaterpodcast.com. You can go to ttp.fm slash Patreon to show your support. And you can get more of us on social theater underscore podcast on Instagram and Twitter, facebook.com slash official theater podcast. Please give a rating, share with your friends. This is produced by Jillian Hockman, edited by Matthew Hendershot. And as always, thank you to Jukebox the Ghost for the intro and outro music, Jackie Hoffman. Thank you so much for being on the podcast.

[36:36] Jackie Hoffman: Thank you. Surprisingly a pleasure. I was dreading it.

[36:43] Alan Seales: Take a deep breath, make the world a little colorful.