This transcript was automatically generated and might contain errors.

[0:00] Alan Seales: Welcome to The Theatre Podcast, intimate, personal conversations with theatre's biggest names. I'm your host, Alan Seales, and this is part of the Broadway Podcast Network. This episode today is with Broadway veteran and performing artist Desi Oakley. And immediately we get into what Desi is short for. Bet you didn't know it was short for something. She is such an incredibly self-aware individual. We got into this deep, deep conversation that veered away from theatre for a while. So if you just want to know about the psyche of somebody on Broadway, this is the episode for you. It was incredible how she started to get these anxiety moments from being on stage by herself, dealing with the success of leading the first national tour of Waitress.

So, I mean, we get into that, we get into meditation, we get into her best friendship with Christina Alobado, which I interviewed and came out back in episode 57. She is just like a female version of me. She's very self-aware. She doesn't let herself be bothered by what people are thinking. Yet, a people-pleaser in need of validation. So it's this internal struggle of, I don't care, but please like me. So it's a fun internal battle. She doesn't define herself as someone who wants to be defined and enjoys doing too much. So I asked her, does she want to do recording artist, make albums and whatnot? Or does she want to be on Broadway? And she's like, why not both? Insert meme here. So before we get into the episode, as always, please visit me on thetheaterpodcast.com online. You can find me on Instagram and Twitter at theatre_podcast. Send me a DM, shout out, leave a comment. I respond. I love reading that stuff. So everybody, please enjoy this episode with Desi Oakley.

[1:58] Alan Seales: She made her Broadway debut in Wicked in 2012, before going on to shows such as Annie the Revival, which was also in 2012, the first national tour of the revival of Evita, Les Mis, and even starred as Jenna in the national tour of Waitress. She's appeared on TV in Gotham and even has a couple of albums of her own as a recording artist out there in the world. And she could most recently be seen as Roxy Hart in Chicago. Desi Oakley, welcome to The Theatre Podcast.

[2:31] Desi Oakley: Thank you. I'm so happy to be here.

[2:33] Alan Seales: Thank you for being here.

[2:34] Desi Oakley: That was a lovely intro.

[2:35] Alan Seales: Well, I had to do it a couple of times. We'll edit out the first two. So when you're listening, listeners now know that that was the third time.

[2:44] Desi Oakley: Yeah, yeah.

[2:45] Alan Seales: The magic of podcasting.

[2:46] Desi Oakley: It was lovely.

[2:47] Alan Seales: Is Desi short for something?

[2:48] Desi Oakley: It is. Thank you so much for asking. It is short for Desiree, but I have never, ever gone by that name. I mean, since I was a tiny infant, my family has always called me Desi, although I was born Desiree. And I think that's a fantastic name. I remember my mom was like, hey, when you're older, you can always use Desiree. And I'm older and it's still Desi. And I don't know, maybe older is like 65. I think I'm going to be Desi forever. It's just, it's what really stuck.

[3:17] Alan Seales: Desiree to me seems like, yeah, it seems like an older lady name.

[3:21] Desi Oakley: It's a beautiful name.

[3:22] Alan Seales: But it is very beautiful.

[3:23] Desi Oakley: I mean, I feel grateful for my name. I mean, there are people that don't like their name and I am not one of them.

[3:27] Alan Seales: Well, Desi, I think is cool.

[3:28] Desi Oakley: It's a fun name.

[3:29] Alan Seales: It's very unique.

[3:31] Desi Oakley: Also, what I love about it is no one's like, what'd you say?

[3:34] Alan Seales: Yeah.

[3:35] Desi Oakley: Like, do you know what I mean? Like, I'm so intimidated to repeat it. That's right. Like, it's so unique where it's like, I have no idea what they just said. So, I feel grateful.

[3:45] Alan Seales: Thank you for saying that.

[3:46] Desi Oakley: Well, you're very welcome. So, you're wonderful parents of Wichita, Kansas.

[3:50] Desi Oakley: That's exactly right.

[3:51] Alan Seales: Yep. Wichita. So, that's where you were, where you were born. And I know a couple of people from Wichita.

[3:56] Desi Oakley: Good old Wichita, honestly. And honestly, can I tell you why? It's because of that incredible regional theater there, Music Theater Wichita. We all did it. So, everybody who you know that works on Broadway that's from Wichita has been associated with that incredible theater.

[4:09] Alan Seales: Where did it, where did the reputation come from? I mean, like what, what transplanted there to make, to make it what it is? Do you know?

[4:15] Desi Oakley: Yes. The producing director, Wayne Bryan, he made it what it is. It's literally all of his entire vision. It's insane.

[4:21] Alan Seales: Wow.

[4:22] Desi Oakley: He made it what it is, that man.

[4:23] Alan Seales: Yeah.

[4:24] Desi Oakley: And he's responsible for all of, kind of like all of our careers. It's remarkable.

[4:29] Alan Seales: Isn't that crazy when you think about though, when you, like, are you, are you a person that believes in sort of, I was going to say spirituality, but sort of like-

[4:35] Desi Oakley: Yes. Definitely.

[4:36] Alan Seales: Well-

[4:37] Desi Oakley: What's meant, like what's meant to be-

[4:38] Alan Seales: Yeah.

[4:39] Desi Oakley: Yeah.

[4:40] Alan Seales: A higher power, 110%.

[4:41] Desi Oakley: Yeah.

[4:42] Alan Seales: Absolutely. Like, like, yes. Yeah. I don't believe that there's much like coincidence.

[4:48] Desi Oakley: I like really think that like things happen for a reason.

[4:51] Alan Seales: So this guy, Wayne, moved to Wichita to like-

[4:54] Desi Oakley: Yep.

[4:55] Alan Seales: Just make-

[4:56] Desi Oakley: Yes.

[4:57] Alan Seales: Like he's, he's changing Broadway.

[4:59] Desi Oakley: Literally.

[5:00] Alan Seales: Yeah.

[5:01] Desi Oakley: Yes. Yes. It's not happenstance. It's, it's like truly divine.

[5:05] Alan Seales: Hmm. Okay. We'll come back to that.

[5:08] Desi Oakley: Okay.

[5:09] Alan Seales: All right. So what was your childhood like though? Did you, were you at, at Wichita, like were you performing there as a kid?

[5:13] Desi Oakley: A little bit. Yeah. So, so they have kid opportunities, but not much. It's mostly, you know, you can run across the stage waving. You know, I always like, it's really sweet. I always say like my mom, this is what I always say. I say, if my mom bent down to get a mint out of her purse, she would have missed me, but I was in the show. Okay. So I was really proud. As a kid, that's huge.

[5:34] Alan Seales: Come on, it's huge.

[5:35] Desi Oakley: Yeah.

[5:36] Alan Seales: You know, and also that particular house, like 2300 seats. I mean, it's gigantic. Gigantic.

[5:43] Desi Oakley: So it feels like such a huge deal and it is such a huge deal. But absolutely there's like, they do like, it's always in the summer. So it feels like summer camp. It's very, it's very sweet. Other than that, yeah, there's actually, because of that theater, I think there is a lot more opportunity. There's young people, you know, theater, like there's community theater, there's, there's camps and there's little classes and there's really good stuff going on at Wichita. There's a lot of arts. I'm really, I'm really proud of it. And some people are like, whoa, you have that classic story. Like you came from Kansas and you moved to New York. And like, I mean, literally Thoroughly Modern Millie is about that. So cool for me. I'm Millie. And Dream Roll, hashtag Dream Roll. And, but, but yeah, for sure. Like that's, I will say it is not just tumbleweeds and like hay bales. It's, it's a really amazing, you know, fine arts community for sure.

[6:41] Alan Seales: Well, your parents though, did they, did, I guess, when did you start?

[6:44] Desi Oakley: I'm an alien. No, I'm a total, I'm a total unicorn. I've come out of nowhere. I've, they don't have any, I'm no one in my family has ever performed.

[6:52] Alan Seales: So were you just like, I want that. And you pointed at the theater and they were like, okay, you're not my kid, but sure.

[6:59] Desi Oakley: Yes. And like, honestly, we like learned it together. Like they didn't have any idea. And, and honestly, so I, my mom gets asked a lot, like especially like that stage mom moment, you know, she says, she says, you know, Desi was always dragging me and make sure that if, you know, if you don't want to be a, a, a smothering stage mom, make sure your kid is dragging you and not the other way around. And I think that she has, that's a really beautiful point is, you know, and she would come home and if she would say, how was that audition? Gosh, like you were up there in front and I didn't, she didn't go to the director and say, how is Desi? What can I do? She trusted me to say how it was and what, and I think that that's good for any kid in anything, you know, not going to the, my sister was a swimmer, like not going up to like at the

[7:50] Desi Oakley: I feel really lucky. My family is amazing, but I am kind of an alien.

[8:01] Alan Seales: How many siblings do you have?

[8:02] Desi Oakley: Just one sister.

[8:03] Alan Seales: One sister.

[8:04] Desi Oakley: And she was like sports, all sports, you know, just volleyball, like incredibly athletic. Never did any of it. Just none.

[8:10] Alan Seales: Well, what did you start playing piano?

[8:13] Desi Oakley: I was eight years old.

[8:14] Alan Seales: Okay.

[8:15] Desi Oakley: It's a great age to start, by the way. I think I recommend that. So I teach, I have two piano students. I started teaching one of them's five and a half and one of them's six and a half and it's absolutely the most precious thing like on the planet. And they're learning to read music. They can both read music. I was so excited, but I will say a really, like the reason I say eight there and they're wonderful and they're doing great. And I know that it's beneficial, but I think I'm, I'm so glad I was eight when I started because there is that attention span, that deeper knowledge of reading truly like comprehension, like what I see on the page, my brain is computing and I'm understanding it. I think that that helps the more experience you have with that. I really do think.

[9:02] Alan Seales: I don't read, read music. I can look at a piece of sheet music and figure out basic note changes and rhythms, but like, I am.

[9:12] Desi Oakley: That's advanced.

[9:13] Alan Seales: Basic, basic.

[9:14] Desi Oakley: I don't know. I would still say that's advanced compared to most people.

[9:19] Alan Seales: Well, yeah, I guess, but it's, I'm good at math. So I think that's why I picked up on music.

[9:24] Desi Oakley: Yeah. Pretty well.

[9:25] Alan Seales: Done. 110%.

[9:26] Desi Oakley: Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Well then, all right. So I'm gonna get my kids into music then. I've always wanted, my older one will be five next month and I'm like, when do I want to get them in the piano?

[9:32] Desi Oakley: I would say even seven, like, it's good. It's good. But I was so glad I was eight because I had, you know, and then that was my, I, you learn discipline very quickly.

[9:50] Alan Seales: Oh yeah.

[9:51] Desi Oakley: You get like the rulers on the knuckles.

[9:54] Alan Seales: Oh yeah. Oh my goodness. It's so true.

[10:01] Desi Oakley: Yeah. And then my family, we were in, I was in fifth grade and my sister was in sixth and we temporarily spent one year in Montreal, Canada, like 110% random, the most random thing you've ever heard. But we did, we relocated because of my dad's job and we spoke French and like, we like totally adapted to the culture. We're like, let's get into this. And my mom was like, I think that we should try to find a piano teacher here because we, you don't want to stop. I was 10 and I was loving it. The strictest, most like truly terrifying piano teacher I've ever, and she was, she would always tell me about the form of my hands and how, when my fingers were on the keys, it had to, there had to be like two eggs underneath my, the palms of my hands. And if I ever smashed my egg, she would say, she would kind of like swat my hand a little bit. Like she did. And I was like, she hit me.

[10:50] Alan Seales: Like, I took, I took violin lessons when I was probably seven or eight.

[10:58] Desi Oakley: Great.

[11:00] Alan Seales: It was the same sort of thing. I had, I had this teacher and she had, I don't remember where she was from. I think she might've been like from the Ukraine or something. She had this accent, which made her scary to me because I didn't know anybody else with an accent.

[11:12] Desi Oakley: Right, right. Of course.

[11:13] Alan Seales: And with the violin, she said, you have to remember there are little froggies under your fingers, so don't press too hard. And when I, you know, and I was a kid with my little, my little three quarter size violin.

[11:24] Desi Oakley: Tiny, tiny.

[11:25] Alan Seales: Yeah.

[11:26] Desi Oakley: You were like, I don't want to squish the frog.

[11:28] Alan Seales: You're squishing the froggies.

[11:29] Desi Oakley: Oh no.

[11:30] Alan Seales: You squish the froggies.

[11:31] Desi Oakley: You squish the froggies. Oh God, no, please, no, no, no.

[11:32] Alan Seales: Right, right. And my teacher was like, don't smash the egg. Like, you're like, oh my gosh.

[11:37] Desi Oakley: Okay, don't smash the egg. Ugh. Anyway, terrifying.

[11:39] Alan Seales: It was.

[11:40] Desi Oakley: But amazing discipline.

[11:41] Alan Seales: Isn't childhood so fun?

[11:42] Desi Oakley: It's wonderful. The memories.

[11:43] Alan Seales: Okay. Okay. So piano. Any other instruments?

[11:44] Desi Oakley: That's it.

[11:45] Alan Seales: That's it. Okay.

[11:46] Desi Oakley: I taught myself like basic guitar in college and like, I'm like fine with it.

[11:47] Alan Seales: Basic guitar.

[11:48] Desi Oakley: I wish there was better.

[11:49] Alan Seales: Well, I feel like once you can read music, period, then you're at an advantage.

[11:50] Desi Oakley: That's true.

[11:51] Alan Seales: That's true.

[11:52] Desi Oakley: You learn like a horn instrument and then you can pick up.

[11:53] Alan Seales: Sure.

[11:54] Desi Oakley: This is me saying somebody, somebody who doesn't play any horn instruments.

[11:55] Alan Seales: Yeah, you just learn one.

[11:56] Desi Oakley: You pick up a horn and you're like, fantastic. Like now the saxophone.

[11:57] Alan Seales: Right, right. And like, my mind went to the piccolo, but not a horn.

[11:58] Desi Oakley: Okay, great.

[11:59] Alan Seales: So, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so,

[12:00] Desi Oakley: So then fast forward, fast forward.

[12:26] Alan Seales: You went to University of Michigan.

[12:28] Desi Oakley: Yes, I'm a proud Wolverine.

[12:31] Alan Seales: Go blue.

[12:32] Desi Oakley: Go blue.

[12:33] Alan Seales: I was about to sing the fight song.

[12:34] Desi Oakley: You don't want to hear it.

[12:35] Alan Seales: I won't do it.

[12:36] Desi Oakley: Oh, okay. Well, I do like to hear you sing.

[12:37] Alan Seales: Hail to Victor's valiant.

[12:39] Desi Oakley: Hail to the conquering heroes.

[12:41] Alan Seales: Hail, hail to Michigan, the champions of the West.

[12:45] Desi Oakley: Go blue.

[12:46] Alan Seales: That was just the second half.

[12:47] Desi Oakley: Okay, BFA, musical theater, right?

[12:50] Alan Seales: And that was, you graduated in 2011.

[12:52] Desi Oakley: That's right.

[12:53] Alan Seales: And then immediately came to New York?

[12:55] Desi Oakley: Immediately.

[12:56] Alan Seales: Like the day after, yeah.

[12:59] Desi Oakley: Well, I moved here. We moved here because our showcase, we all came to the city for the showcase and I stayed.

[13:05] Alan Seales: May 12th, 2011.

[13:06] Desi Oakley: I'll never forget it.

[13:08] Alan Seales: May, okay.

[13:09] Desi Oakley: So May 12th, 2011.

[13:10] Alan Seales: Yep.

[13:11] Desi Oakley: And you made your Broadway debut in Wicked in 2012.

[13:13] Alan Seales: Yeah, exactly.

[13:14] Desi Oakley: So I booked the show end of November-ish, early December-ish of that year, of 11, and then began and started rehearsals.

[13:24] Alan Seales: And then I made my debut on January 10th, 2012.

[13:29] Desi Oakley: So, assuming average college admission entry age is standard, do you have to make you about 32 now?

[13:35] Alan Seales: 30, yeah?

[13:36] Desi Oakley: I just turned 30 this summer.

[13:38] Alan Seales: Oh, 30?

[13:39] Desi Oakley: Oh, so you got-

[13:40] Alan Seales: I was also, I like,

[13:42] Desi Oakley: I was a 17-year-old graduating senior. I was a 20... I was always the year-early-er person.

[13:48] Alan Seales: Okay. So, Broadway... So, you were like, yeah.

[13:50] Desi Oakley: So, Broadway debut then at 21.

[13:53] Alan Seales: Yep. Yep. Exactly.

[13:56] Alan Seales: Right. So, most people... I guess there are so many actors in the city, first and foremost.

[14:04] Desi Oakley: Absolutely.

[14:04] Alan Seales: A lot of which never get a Broadway debut.

[14:07] Desi Oakley: Sure.

[14:08] Alan Seales: Some of which stick with it and make their Broadway debuts in their 50s or their 40s.

[14:12] Desi Oakley: Absolutely.

[14:12] Alan Seales: Or, you know, I said this before in the podcast that Jessica Vosk made her debut in her 30s.

[14:17] Desi Oakley: Yeah.

[14:18] Alan Seales: She was like, it's never too old, it's never too old. And then like the next day I talked to Andrew Polk who made his debut at 54 in The Band Visit.

[14:24] Desi Oakley: Yes.

[14:25] Alan Seales: So, you're making your debut at 21.

[14:27] Desi Oakley: Yeah.

[14:27] Alan Seales: Did you know at the time, I guess...

[14:31] Desi Oakley: What a big deal it was?

[14:32] Desi Oakley: What a big deal it was. Yes.

[14:33] Desi Oakley: Absolutely. Thank you for that question because yes, I did. I freaked out. I knew it was huge. To the point where I didn't sit down on the day that it happened. I didn't sit down once. In the ensemble, there's even a break for the women's ensemble that's well over 25 minutes. I did not sit down. They were like, Desi, you have a break. I was like, I know, I know. I'm just amped and I'm here and I'm so excited. I'll just... I knew it was a big deal and it felt like a big deal. And my community and my people made it a big deal as well. And it was amazing. And also the company of Wicked made it a big deal with me and for me. And they didn't patronize me because I was 21 and they did not look down on me.

They said, this is huge and good for you. And I was so lucky because of that. Although I do have my favorite story about that day was the ensemble was gathered at curtain up around where Elphaba would have melted. Sorry, spoiler alert. Y'all, you know it. You know it. It was Wizard of Oz. Okay. So we're gathered around where she would have melted and we're in a frozen position. So we're all gathered around it. And before the curtain actually goes up, we assume the position relatively early, a few counts before the curtain goes up, right? The professionals that they are. And my heart is pounding out of my chest. I have my hand in... Kind of like a hands in. That's actually kind of what it looks like.

I have my hand in the middle and I'm just... I mean, I kid you not. I feel my heart beating all over. My whole body is just feeling my heartbeat. And the people next to me are talking about Oreos. They're talking about the difference between double stuffed and regular stuffed Oreos. Right. And I will never forget the juxtaposition of how chill they are because it's been how many times have they been in this position? How many years have they been doing that? And me. And I literally was like, are they talking about Oreos? They're talking about Oreos. Okay, they're talking about Oreos. And I just was like, Desi, remember that because that's hilarious. You're freaking out right now and they're talking about Oreos. Anyway, I'll just... I'll never forget that.

[17:04] Alan Seales: Do you have a lot of, I guess, an extra amount of self-awareness compared to peers?

[17:04] Desi Oakley: Yeah. Sometimes it's a curse. I am very self-aware and also aware of my surroundings to sometimes a fault. So I just notice everything that goes on around me. I notice what is happening and sounds and conversations and how loud I'm being in the room or what should or shouldn't be happening. And that also socially, but sometimes to a fault because it leads to overthinking.

[17:35] Alan Seales: Right. Well, that was what I'm going to say that seems like it would work to your disadvantage as an actor.

[17:39] Desi Oakley: It does. It does. Absolutely, it does. And on stage, that was a huge awakening. That was a huge awakening for me with Jenna. Because I started after two months of doing the same thing where I was like, okay, now I'm in my groove. Instead of feeling the freedom, I was so hyper aware of, oh, I said that line differently. Or, oh, the audience reacted differently. Or, oh, well, it became actually a problem instead of the good part of like, oh, and I'm recognizing that and yay. And like, this is great. It was like, oh no, oh no, this is different. And I'm, wow, now I'm noticing this overthinking, overthinking, overthinking.

[18:31] Alan Seales: So what happened?

[18:31] Desi Oakley: So about halfway through the run, I started seeing a therapist. And when I say seeing, I was on the road. So it was a phone call, but I started to develop for the first time in my life onstage anxiety. And that anxiety is what I truly believe was from, well, it was a combination of things. Like not necessarily trusting that I was safe on stage. And it could have come from a lot of different things. We had some like managerial problems and it was difficult. We all kind of struggled with that. And I think being the actor in that position, we all did. And we all kind of related to the fact that we were all struggling to like, you know, be heard or have our needs met the way that we were expecting, that sort of thing.

And then we were away from our families and our friends and like, you know, and then my particular role was on stage alone a lot. So a lot of time to be with just myself. And I think it was kind of like, I had all of this support and all of, you know, the team right behind me. And then they sort of, then it was like, they were gone. And then I just sort of felt alone. And that sort of started to like, it started to get to me. And I recognized too, as a supreme extrovert, that this might be manifesting itself. Like I don't spend time with myself. So I'm legitimately alone onstage with Jenna. And then the pressure of the 3000 people in the audience, hashtag tour houses, and whoa, I think it was like a really big awakening of like, oh my gosh, I'm not comfortable here.

I'm not thriving here. And I sort of was like, the opposite thing of that freedom, like, yes, I'm in my element. I'm doing my thing. And I'm like, feeling myself. The opposite happened. It was like, I'm doubting myself. I'm questioning myself. Why did I say that line like that? Whoa, that was not how I planned to say that. Like, what is happening? Like, what is going on? It turned into doubt or anxiety.

[20:46] Alan Seales: Right. Because it was all new.

[20:46] Desi Oakley: So new. Have you, I guess, well, you found a therapist that you were talking to on the phone.

[20:53] Desi Oakley: Right. And it was so helpful. So helpful. I'd never even said these words out loud before. Oh, yeah. Because I'd never, and I had never, I'd never experienced that kind of anxiety before. Like I've experienced like, sure, like general anxiousness, perhaps, but like, not like, oh, this is manifesting itself. And like, I'm not, I can't do my job to the fullest extent. You know, that's, and that was the difference. So I started thinking, oh, because I've never, I had never actually experienced that kind of, I guess the word is like debilitating.

[21:30] Alan Seales: Was it that bad?

[21:30] Desi Oakley: So it did get that bad. It did get that bad. Not at first. But also at first I wasn't like, I was pride central and was like, no, no, no, I'm good. Like, what was that like negative thought or that doubt on stage? Whatever. I'm amazing. It's all good. I'll push through it. I'm fine. The show happened. I'm fine, I'm fine, I'm fine, I'm fine, but that's sort of, that's like, that's Desi in a nutshell. I'm good, I'm good, I'm good, I'm good. How are you? So to be able to be like, okay, I'm going to spend time, effort, money, investing in myself, me, I, you know, new concept.

[22:08] Alan Seales: So that was 29, 28? What was it?

[22:11] Desi Oakley: Yeah, 29. Exactly. And yeah, it was-

[22:14] Alan Seales: So what I'm comparing, so I'm 30, I just turned 39 and I just started seeing a therapist in the summer of when I was 28. So like just over a year.

[22:24] Desi Oakley: Okay. And it's helped me, it's turned me around.

[22:28] Desi Oakley: Like a combination of that and this, the podcast.

[22:32] Alan Seales: Yeah, yeah.

[22:33] Desi Oakley: Because I'm literally, I'm staring at you in the eyes for an hour.

[22:38] Alan Seales: Our oxytocin is, our brain is releasing oxytocin because it's like human contact.

[22:43] Desi Oakley: Connection, connection.

[22:46] Alan Seales: Connection is everything.

[22:46] Desi Oakley: Yeah.

[22:46] Desi Oakley: Connection is my, that's my number, that's my favorite word. That's my number one. That's why I do everything I do is to connect. That's why I do this business. That's why I invest in my friendships and my relationships. It's number one. It's the number one word for me.

[23:01] Alan Seales: Why do you, do you, is there a deficiency in the connection? Why do you feel you, like, why do you look for that connection? I know why I do.

[23:08] Desi Oakley: Right. Maybe, maybe like, I don't think that there's a deficiency. I think it's, it really is how I'm hardwired. And I have proof of this since I was a child. It's just like truly how I'm hardwired. I'm a people person. I love people. Like I would walk up, like, I'd walk up to like, you know, if, if my parents turned, they turned around for one second, I'd be at the other table, like talking to people, like, you're going to finish that burrito? I don't know. Like, whatever. Like introducing myself, saying hi. Like, I just want to like know people. Knowing people is my favorite thing ever. And like, not to mention finding something that I can connect with to them. I, I, I don't know. I don't know like where it, besides the fact that I know that it's, that it really is deep rooted like in me.

But then, right. So every opportunity going back to Jenna, like every opportunity to sit there on stage and to connect with myself or those deep feelings. And I ran away. Some part of me was like, nope, nope, nope, nope, nope, nope, nope. Right. So like, and then therefore the anxiety started because I was not, I wasn't into being like, girl, you cool with investing in yourself as much as you invest in other people. And I was like, no, are you crazy? Like, right. So I think that's where, that's what was going on. And now I, now I sort of like can see that I know that. And I, that's where I feel like I have grown immensely as like, you know, but it can kind of be a scary, I can kind of be a scary thing.

[24:39] Alan Seales: It's totally scary.

[24:40] Desi Oakley: It's kind of terrifying.

[24:41] Alan Seales: Because you're, I'm the, I'm the same way. It's like, no, I can deal with it. I got it. I got it. I got it. But it's scary to admit, first of all, that you have weakness.

[24:52] Desi Oakley: Vulnerability.

[24:52] Alan Seales: Vulnerability. Yeah. Yeah.

[24:54] Desi Oakley: But that's the, that's the best thing we could do.

[24:58] Alan Seales: Weakness was the wrong word. Yes. Vulnerability.

[25:00] Desi Oakley: Right. No, but we see it as weakness. We see it.

[25:02] Alan Seales: Right.

[25:03] Desi Oakley: Or it's categorized as such.

[25:05] Alan Seales: Yeah. Yeah. So it's, that's, that's the stigma.

[25:08] Desi Oakley: Possibly wrongly.

[25:09] Alan Seales: Right. That's the stigma that, that through these conversations in the podcast and through just talking about my own personality and exposing, you know, the people that others look up to and that they are just human.

[25:20] Desi Oakley: Oh my goodness. Please.

[25:22] Desi Oakley: Always.

[25:22] Alan Seales: Like I'm trying to reverse that stigma of like, oh, you're seeing a therapist. Oh, something must be wrong with you.

[25:27] Desi Oakley: No, listen.

[25:28] Desi Oakley: No.

[25:29] Alan Seales: So my favorite analogy, the way that I've like sort of been describing it is, so for instance, okay, let's talk about the way that, so for anybody listening, who's, who's considering therapy like this is huge. So I was having a specific issue. It was on stage only. It was because of maybe X, Y, Z, but it was happening to me. So when I saw, when I started calling my therapist, that's like me saying, hey, doc, I just, there's something going on with my knee, you know, and, and the doctor's saying, cool, let's look at your knee. Like they're not going to go. So a lot of people are afraid to go to therapy because they're like, oh, I don't, I don't want to introduce myself to somebody and start back at when I was born.

And with all my family drama, a doctor's not going to say to you, all right, so you sprained your knee. All right. So when, how often do you get a massage on your neck? It's like, no, no, no. They're going to examine your knee. They're going to go right to your knee and they're going to eventually over time, they might say, oh wow. It looks kind of like you're putting too much weight on your left leg. Oh, okay. Well, your hips are a little bit out of whack. Oh, interesting. That's because like it's over time. So I think people are afraid of like addressing an issue like it would be a medical situation. It's just as important as your, our bodies.

[26:47] Desi Oakley: Oh yeah. Well, maintaining mental health is, is as important as maintaining fit, maintaining physical health.

[26:52] Alan Seales: 100%. And that's what we have to, that's the stigma we have to get over.

[26:56] Alan Seales: What do you do now? Do you meditate? Do you?

[26:58] Desi Oakley: Oh yes. Oh yes. Okay. So prayer life, meditation, yoga, essential oils, crystals. I don't have an acronym for it, but we should. So, so.

[27:12] Desi Oakley: Meditation.

[27:13] Desi Oakley: Meditation, prayer, yoga, crystals, and essential oils.

[27:18] Alan Seales: Wait, you got some E's in there. So essential oils.

[27:20] Desi Oakley: M-E-Y.

[27:22] Desi Oakley: Mep, mep, mep, meps.

[27:25] Desi Oakley: Meditation, essential oils, prayer life, crystals, yoga.

[27:30] Desi Oakley: Yoga.

[27:31] Desi Oakley: Mepki.

[27:32] Desi Oakley: Mepki.

[27:33] Desi Oakley: That's me.

[27:34] Desi Oakley: And that's your guide to, you know, mental health.

[27:36] Desi Oakley: Mepki with Desi Oakley.

[27:37] Desi Oakley: That's me.

[27:38] Desi Oakley: Yeah.

[27:39] Desi Oakley: But, but yeah, it all, it takes different shape. But like, I feel like whatever works, you know, for you, I think it's important to find your, and honestly, it is, it's connection with self or higher self. And it's, it's groundedness.

[27:52] Desi Oakley: It's groundedness. That's what, it's different levels of that, of like, true groundedness.

[28:02] Alan Seales: Oh, absolutely.

[28:03] Desi Oakley: For me, what's still new to me that I'm actively, consciously having to tell myself to do and practice when it, when the moment comes is to be okay with, with being down.

[28:16] Alan Seales: Absolutely.

[28:18] Desi Oakley: Because I was taught from the relationship with my parents that when you feel bad, just ignore it and it goes away.

[28:24] Alan Seales: Sure.

[28:25] Desi Oakley: Push it away.

[28:26] Alan Seales: Sure.

[28:27] Desi Oakley: Push through it.

[28:29] Alan Seales: Sure.

[28:30] Desi Oakley: And that generation, like, too, not trying to give them a, you know, throw them a bone, not trying to throw them a bone, but like, they definitely, you know, I do feel like there's a generational situation going on.

[28:39] Alan Seales: Right.

[28:40] Desi Oakley: Oh, absolutely.

[28:41] Alan Seales: Yeah.

[28:43] Desi Oakley: So my, I, I'm trying to sit with, with being unhappy and not like at the, in the moment, not analyze what it's from or not trying to figure out how to get out of it. Just acknowledge it.

[28:55] Alan Seales: Yeah.

[28:56] Desi Oakley: And acknowledge, that's, that's amazing. I've learned through yoga to stop labeling stuff. I've heard and read that it's important for our brains to label safe, not safe, because that's just literally like.

[29:13] Desi Oakley: It's fight or flight. It's, that's just part of our DNA. That's like the makeup of like who, like how humans exist.

[29:19] Alan Seales: The lizard brain.

[29:20] Desi Oakley: Right. Is like safe, not safe. So labeling things is actually really important for our brain to feel safe or not safe. Other than that, it's actually, it's totally unnecessary.

[29:31] Desi Oakley: We label everything though. So we, we say cool, not cool, pretty skinny, fat, ugly, unappealing. You know, that's, that's where we start to get, you know, or wrong or weak.

[29:47] Alan Seales: Right.

[29:48] Desi Oakley: So like those labels don't serve us instead of just being like, okay, I don't need to, I don't need to say this is bad or good. And I learned that through yoga. So if you're in a position that's difficult to hold, right. So let's say you're even in plank, holding a plank position and the brain immediately goes, this is hard. This is hard. This is hard. This is hard. This is hard. This is hard.

[30:10] Desi Oakley: That's label, label, label, label, label. And it's like, Hey, can you just say that this is a plank position and I'm holding it. My heart rate is accelerating. These are things I'm noticing. My body is quivering a little bit. Things I'm noticing. It's just, and by the way, now 15 seconds has already passed. And how long have we already held the plank and just by right. So it's just like less label or capable of so much more than we think because we just label things.

[30:36] Desi Oakley: Anyway. I can see.

[30:37] Alan Seales: Thank you for coming to my Google talk.

[30:39] Desi Oakley: I can see why, why you and Christina Alabado are such good friends.

[30:45] Desi Oakley: Besties for life. She sat there in that exact same chair and uh, I officiated her wedding.

[30:51] Alan Seales: I'm sorry.

[30:52] Desi Oakley: I'm so proud. I'm so, I'm just so proud.

[30:54] Alan Seales: You're an officiant.

[30:55] Desi Oakley: I'm an officiant. I'm an officiant.

[30:57] Alan Seales: Did you, did you, I didn't mean to please continue.

[30:59] Desi Oakley: I did not mean to interrupt you.

[31:00] Alan Seales: Oh no, this real quick. Did you get, did you get your certification?

[31:02] Desi Oakley: Yeah.

[31:03] Desi Oakley: Is that what it is?

[31:04] Alan Seales: For her wedding?

[31:05] Desi Oakley: Yes.

[31:06] Desi Oakley: For each, for the one.

[31:07] Alan Seales: Yes.

[31:08] Desi Oakley: You do it per state. Like with the state that you're doing it in.

[31:10] Alan Seales: So it's by the state.

[31:11] Desi Oakley: Yeah.

[31:12] Alan Seales: Okay.

[31:13] Desi Oakley: The state has to acknowledge you.

[31:14] Alan Seales: Yeah.

[31:15] Desi Oakley: Okay. So anyway, Christina, Christina and I were talking about meditation cause she meditates a lot.

[31:18] Alan Seales: Oh yeah.

[31:19] Desi Oakley: And, and I was, I was using my own story that like, I feel like I'm doing it wrong because I sit there and like, I try to be aware and I'm like, oh, you know, my back is sore because my hamstrings are tight. You know, talking about one thing affecting the other.

[31:30] Alan Seales: Right.

[31:31] Desi Oakley: Yeah. Totally. So it travels up your butt, which is too tight and affects your back. Um, so I'm like, oh, I'm thinking about that, but I'm thinking about thinking about it. And then, and then she's like, no, but that's right. Like you're acknowledging it. You keep coming back. You keep coming back. You keep coming back. And I, but I, that doesn't feel right, but that's exactly what it is.

[31:47] Alan Seales: It's exactly right.

[31:48] Desi Oakley: Ooh. Okay. So this is going to be the most amazing way to meditate. And I'd like, I'm so obsessed with it. Okay. So you are on the ocean floor. So as you start to settle into your meditation, I'm like, maybe you should, okay. So you're going and imagine yourself sinking down, down, down onto the ocean floor.

[32:08] Desi Oakley: And it's so beautiful and peaceful and quiet. And I like to picture myself wearing something really flowy or nice. Maybe it's even white. And it's really clean and easy. And it's kind of rippling in the waves and you're at the bottom of the ocean. And at this point, a thought could come in. And the way that we like to think about it is it's basically a, it's a boat on the surface. It's very far away from you. You are safe and calm on the ocean floor and the thoughts coming in and just watch it as it passes you.

[32:44] Desi Oakley: So just let it leave and come back to what you're wearing and how you're seated on the ocean floor. And then maybe acknowledge, is it cold? Are you, did a cold kind of front come through the water? A thought might've come in, but let it go like a motorboat. So you continue to sink back down. And like, did you rise with the current? And then maybe you come back down onto the ocean floor. You're still there. And so the thought coming in like a motorboat, passing like a motorboat, it goes, it just can come in and you can say, there's a boat up there. That's wonderful. I'm very far away. I don't need to be associated. I don't need to say, ahoy, where are you? Where do you, do you need directions? You don't need to acknowledge the boat.

[33:37] Desi Oakley: Of course, I would be like, do you need help? No. You are, you are here in your safety and like, let it pass and watch it pass actually. You know? Anyway, that's my, that's what I do when I'm, when I, when I can't, but you should use Insight Timer. That's an app that's fantastic for meditation.

[33:54] Alan Seales: Oh.

[33:55] Desi Oakley: Oh yeah. She, she said too that, uh, Deepak Chopra, she was saying that if you can't find time to meditate, those who say, who can't find time to meditate, should meditate twice.

[34:04] Alan Seales: There you go.

[34:05] Desi Oakley: Yeah. Totally. I'm sorry.

[34:08] Alan Seales: Yeah.

[34:09] Desi Oakley: Oh yeah.

[34:10] Alan Seales: Oh yeah.

[34:11] Desi Oakley: I was, I was, I was about 20 feet below the water. Tropical water.

[34:14] Alan Seales: It was warm.

[34:15] Desi Oakley: Tropical. Ooh, good. And it was a blue, it's a, like a, the sun was slightly to the left of the waves coming in.

[34:21] Alan Seales: Oh my goodness.

[34:22] Desi Oakley: Fantastic. The light rays coming in across, across my, yeah. And I could see up and then there was like, I saw, um, Marlon Nemo's dad's from across. Not Nemo.

[34:30] Alan Seales: Sweet, sweet Marlon.

[34:31] Desi Oakley: Because he had both fins. Yeah. So it was, it was Marlon. It wasn't the guppy fin. It was the full of the.

[34:37] Alan Seales: I'm so glad that you were safe in my, in my ocean analogy.

[34:40] Desi Oakley: I felt like right when you started to describe like sinking down, I felt, I felt. Some things coming off of my shoulders.

[34:47] Alan Seales: Yeah.

[34:48] Desi Oakley: Yeah. Weight coming off.

[34:51] Alan Seales: That's the weightlessness.

[34:52] Desi Oakley: I also like to picture something that's light that you're wearing that you're just, oh.

[34:53] Alan Seales: I look good in a white dress, by the way.

[34:55] Desi Oakley: You look great.

[34:56] Alan Seales: Fantastic.

[34:57] Desi Oakley: That's what I was picturing. I was like, oh, I'm in a white dress. This is cool. No judgment. I look great. I look great. No one's here. The boats can't see me. I'm chilling. I'm safe.

[35:06] Alan Seales: Back to theater or maybe, let's see, where was I going through my notes and that's, that's those. Oh yeah. So let's talk about Christina. I brought up Christina. You guys, the two of you do, oh, what's the website called?

[35:22] Desi Oakley: It's Pop Rock Broadway.

[35:23] Alan Seales: Pop Rock Broadway.

[35:24] Desi Oakley: That's what it is. So Christina Alobado, Christina Helena Alobado and I met doing the national tour of Evita where I was the Ava prone alternate. They kept that true to the way that Patti LuPone. My other best friend, Caroline Bowman was playing it six times a week and I did it twice a week and Christina was the mistress and we met and I'll never forget meeting her. We were, it was the first day of rehearsal and it happened to be Chris's birthday and she was like, do you want to come to my birthday? I was like, we just met and she goes, yeah, but like, I think it'd be fun and I was like, I love you. Like it was immediate. It was like immediate. And I was like, I think I'm going to love this person forever and such is the truth.

[36:07] Desi Oakley: So we have lived a lot of life together. The ups and the downs. We love, I love walking with Christina in this business and in our city life and in our relationships and in like, we just, we love being each other's like person to call. We brainstorm, we brainstorm business stuff. Like she's just, she gets it. We just get each other. And we both have had success in this industry, singing pop rock, like specifically pop rock, like that exact genre. And we've, we were like, you want to start a company? I kid you not. And I said, I think that there's a huge market for the fact that a lot of Broadway is pop right now. It's rock right now. It's folk. It's, it's melodic, you know, Sara Bareilles, it's Ingrid Michaelson, it's this like, you know what I mean? It's this instrument forward music. And we, we know how to do that really well.

[37:05] Desi Oakley: And I don't say that, I'm trying to say that humbly, but like we get that. So we were like, we could, we could start this. So we started Pop Rock Broadway and it became a smash hit. We literally just had our first master classes and it was so phenomenal. It was like, it surpassed all of our dreams and more, and we can't wait. There's going to be so much more.

[37:19] Alan Seales: Oh yeah, you were saying November, November 3rd was when you did the first one, right?

[37:22] Desi Oakley: Exactly. It was just this past, like a couple of weekends ago. And we're thrilled, like we're thrilled out of our minds. Now we have, now the sky's the limit. We're going to do like, oh, we're going to have guest artists. Natalie Weiss is going to do a riffing intensive. Like just wait, we're going to have like people come and oh, we have so many ideas.

[37:36] Alan Seales: Oh God. I want it to just be a fly on the wall during the riffing intensive.

[37:39] Desi Oakley: Wouldn't that be fantastic? Listen, you too can riff. You know, the finger, the finger on the ear, like, whoa, you're like, yeah, yeah, yeah. And someone in the corner is like, blah, someone's like, no, I need, I need, I need some help.

[37:54] Alan Seales: Yeah.

[37:55] Desi Oakley: We can help you. We can help everybody. No matter where you are on your journey. We can help you.

[37:59] Alan Seales: You know what? God, it's all come together. Like this has been such an interesting couple of weeks for me. So recently I also interacted with, interviewed some of the Freestyle Love Supreme guys.

[38:11] Desi Oakley: Heck yes.

[38:12] Alan Seales: Oh, I've got to get over there.

[38:14] Desi Oakley: Oh God, so good. I can't wait.

[38:15] Alan Seales: And what they were telling me is before every, every show, literally, they just go up to each other and they touch each other and say, I got your back. I got your back.

[38:22] Desi Oakley: Aww.

[38:25] Alan Seales: That kind of makes me want to cry a little bit.

[38:26] Desi Oakley: And one of, and Anissa Folds, one of the newest ones, like Broadway debut in Freestyle Love, she just joined the Academy back in March. Like it's that, that her trajectory is just skyrocketing. And she was like, she said the thing that she had to be comfortable with, like she could freestyle, she could sing, but what made her good was being okay, being, being okay, being uncomfortable.

[38:49] Desi Oakley: Oof. I love, I love that.

[38:53] Alan Seales: Yeah.

[38:54] Desi Oakley: Being okay. Being uncomfortable. Ooh, we don't like that.

[38:57] Alan Seales: Right.

[38:58] Desi Oakley: That's, that's the labeling you were going, that you were talking about.

[38:59] Alan Seales: Ooh, yeah.

[39:00] Desi Oakley: We're like, ooh, this is uncomfortable. I'm out.

[39:02] Alan Seales: Yeah.

[39:03] Desi Oakley: I'm out. I'm out. Bye. Bye. Bye. Ooh, that's so good. I'm so glad you shared that with me.

[39:10] Alan Seales: Yeah.

[39:11] Desi Oakley: So you can take that. It's for free.

[39:13] Alan Seales: I will.

[39:14] Desi Oakley: Oh, appreciate you.

[39:15] Alan Seales: Appreciate you.

[39:16] Desi Oakley: What's your Venmo handle?

[39:17] Alan Seales: Okay. So, so that was, that's what reminded me. The riffing. It's like, what is the proper joke about to someone not being like, being able to riff well?

[39:24] Desi Oakley: Not being able to do it and then getting sad and leaving?

[39:26] Alan Seales: Right.

[39:27] Desi Oakley: But then, you know what I would do? I would say, you are labeling that, that person is not doing well, that person is living their truth on their journey.

[39:33] Alan Seales: That word truth.

[39:35] Desi Oakley: Yeah. They, they, you know, what is your truth? What is your flow? They use the word flow.

[39:39] Alan Seales: Ooh.

[39:40] Desi Oakley: Ooh, I love that. And, and I've been, you know, being the self-aware person that I am, I've been trying to figure that out. And I don't, I don't know. Like, I, I've come a long way with, with therapy and self-awareness and being okay with my ups and my downs and whatever it is. But I still can't quite figure out what my, like, maybe I want to label it too specifically.

[40:02] Alan Seales: That's fair.

[40:03] Desi Oakley: Does that make sense?

[40:04] Alan Seales: Yeah.

[40:05] Desi Oakley: It does. It makes perfect sense. Because I'm like, what is my flow? Do I want to be, do I want to be a podcast host? Do I want to be an engineer? Do I want to be a singer?

[40:11] Alan Seales: Well, you have a lot of strengths. And I think that that's actually something to celebrate because I can kind of relate to this. Like, I'm a woman who wears many hats and that's a great thing.

[40:23] Desi Oakley: That's a great thing to like, but why does it have to be one thing? This is a gigantic, vast, crazy life we live in. Like your, maybe your truth is like here, there and everywhere.

[40:35] Alan Seales: Well, that's what, that's actually something I wanted to get to with you is because you've done this Broadway, you've done the Broadway track and you've also got a track as like a recording artist.

[40:45] Desi Oakley: Yeah.

[40:46] Alan Seales: Yeah.

[40:47] Desi Oakley: I appreciate that too.

[40:48] Alan Seales: I appreciate you.

[40:49] Desi Oakley: I love, I love writing music. I've, again, since I played the piano, like I've written music since I was a kid, like writing songs. I don't know. They just come to me and I write them down and I play them and I, it brings me great, great joy. And I, and I have to stop thinking by the way, about what people are going to think about my music.

[41:06] Desi Oakley: I waited to make sure everyone on the planet liked my sound before I put out an album. I would never do it. If we waited until we were ready, we would never do anything. Yeah. I was like, you know what? This brings me great joy. There is nothing like sitting behind the piano and singing "I Come Alive." I was like, no, but you can't be a singer-songwriter. You're on Broadway, Desi. You have to pick one. I'm an all-or-nothing person, 110 in. You can't divide your time. What are you thinking? Like, what? I wasted way too much time there. Come on. If it brings you joy, do it. If you want to create, make. Make, make, make. Who cares about how it's received? You know what I mean? Oh, I'm so glad that I got over that.

[41:53] Alan Seales: Well, are you consciously making choices to go back and forth between the two?

[42:01] Desi Oakley: I let it be organic. I'm really trying to let things be so real. Same with my social media. People are like, how do you know what to post and when you post? If I don't want to post something, I don't post something. If I don't want to write a song, I don't make myself write a song. But whatever I feel, I try to just be in the moment. I'm trying to be in the moment. I'm such a planner. I'm so type A. I just try to be like, whatever. Okay, I really want it. I'm behind on the deadline that I set for myself. Oh, no. Oh, no. Boo-hoo. Like, whatever.

[42:36] Alan Seales: It's your own deadline.

[42:36] Desi Oakley: Right. But make a goal. Set a goal. Try. Absolutely. Having goals is fantastic. Good for you. But don't beat yourself up if you don't achieve them. That is okay. You're striving. You're a striving, living, breathing human being.

[42:51] Alan Seales: Well, now that you've left Chicago, you did the masterclass. And so now, is it recording artist time again?

[43:00] Desi Oakley: A little bit. I'm kind of in the abyss. I am in a lot of self-initiating moments. I'm going back home. I just announced today that I'm going back home to Wichita to do a concert there called "Coming Home." It's my first concert in Wichita ever. Ever since I was, I don't know, 17, playing Ariel in "The Little Mermaid." And so I'm going back. And it's a family-friendly concert. And my niece and my nephew are going to hear Aunt Daisy sing for the first time. I'm so excited. Anyway, so it's kind of like I'm making things happen, self-initiating projects left and right. And some days, I allow myself to be like, wow, this is hard. And then other days, I'm like, this is amazing. I'm so capable. I live in the best city in the world.

And I've got so much support. And I'm so blessed. It's insane. But then other days, you're like, wow, okay, I am my biggest self-advocate. And then I call Christina. And I'm like, hey, Chris, why am I down today? And she goes, girl, if you are not your biggest self-advocate, then something's wrong. If you're not your biggest advocate, something's wrong. Something's wrong. If other people are fighting for your success more than you, girl, you got an issue. You shouldn't be doing it.

[44:10] Alan Seales: Right. You're doing the right thing. If you're out there leading the pack of team Desi, go, girl. You're Desi. So it's good. I have an amazing support system. And I'm really lucky.

[44:24] Alan Seales: Well, okay. Back on August 21st, you made a post on Instagram with the following caption. I'm scared. You're going to be misunderstood. And you're going to be known. You're going to be judged. And you're going to be seen. You're going to be misinterpreted. And you're going to be fully heard. Know who you are and be confident in that. And there you'll find peace.

[44:44] Desi Oakley: Boom. Okay. I still mean it. So yeah. Did I say that?

[44:52] Alan Seales: Yeah.

[44:52] Desi Oakley: Okay.

[44:52] Alan Seales: Yeah. I cut and pasted.

[44:54] Desi Oakley: That's pretty cool.

[44:54] Alan Seales: So I'm not sure how to put my notes. No question. Just want to talk about it.

[44:59] Desi Oakley: Yeah. Yeah. It's like, that's just, there are people that are not going to like you. And there are people that are going to want to have nothing to do with you as a person. And I like people. And I'm also a people pleaser. When I was seven years old, I said, mom, I don't understand why everyone in the class is not my best friend. I don't get it. I just don't understand. I'm like, well, you know what? You're going to be somebody's awesome best friend. And there's different kinds of friends. And there's different kinds of people. And this is the way it rolls. And I find that a reminder like that is beneficial. And, and I don't think it's naive to want there to be world peace. I don't think it's naive to want people to get along and to want to be understood.

And I don't think that's naive, but I think if you, if you start to recognize that on your journey, not everyone is going to think like you, not everyone's going to react like you, not everyone's going to, not everyone has the same life as you or the same thoughts as you. That brings me comfort to know that it's just really okay to be doing you and happy with the people that know you. And if you know yourself, if you can spend a little time with yourself and really like yourself, then that's your, that is living in your truth. You're good. If you can lay your head on the pillow every night and be like, I know who I am. I stand by everything I did today. Messed up here. That's fine. Whatever. Made a mistake. I apologized. Whatever. I'm good. That's my truth. This is my truth. That's it.

[46:36] Alan Seales: All right. Right? Yeah. Yeah. Oh no, I totally get that. I, I'm the same way. Like I try to be very conscious of going through life, trying not to let what other people think of me affect me in any way. And what Alex Timbers told me was make your own success.

[46:53] Desi Oakley: Right. Yeah. See it. I mean, you know, look at Lin-Manuel, look what he's, he wrote his own stuff and look where he is. Make your own success. Go. I mean, one of the best examples. Yeah. Um, and even Alex too, he wrote "Bloody Bloody Andrew Jackson" because he just wanted to direct something. So he just wrote it. Yeah. Um, yeah. But, but I, but I, I try to, I try to do that and I try to, it's, it's this weird, like inner struggle in my head because on one side I'm like, I'm just going to do what I want to do. I want to make my own success. I'm going to do one step in front of the other. I'm just going, going, going, but then I want to be successful because I have a need. I'm a, the people pleaser side of me needs to be validated.

[47:38] Desi Oakley: Yep. And don't we all. So inherently by trying not to care, by doing the things to and saying, I don't care, I'm creating situations where I then have to care about. I have to have people care about what I'm doing. I totally, totally get that. Oh my gosh. Like I so get that. And I think that's why I, that's why I wrote that is I was like, but if you're like, or same with like, and that's what I, and it, and that perfect, I like fail at this by the hour, but just trying to constantly have that be the reminder of like, it's going to stop me from putting out the album. It's going to stop you from making a move or trying like it will because that power, that fear, Ooh, it's huge. It's gigantic. It takes up a big amount of space and it just shouldn't, it just shouldn't. And some days are better than others.

Ooh. And I also was finding the other day that every minute is different. And if I allow space for every minute to change, let alone an hour, maybe even a day crazy, but like allow that minute to be what it is. And like, just know if actually there's a sudden change of emotion or change of spirit, like that's good. That's okay. Like every minute can be different. I don't know why I was, I felt compelled to say that, but it's kind of irrelevant to what we were talking about. But anyway, but you know, I just, yeah, like do you love yourself, trust that you're loved by your people and you know what? Wish everyone else on their merry merry way. It's, I found it's hard to hard as well in this business, in the theater business that I feel the people who, there are a lot of people who, you know, they keep rising and everyone likes to help each other.

And there's the larger contingent that just of successful people who are, want to bring their friends with them, who become other successful people and whatnot. But there's a couple, there's a handful of individuals who, I don't know. I don't know if it's insecurity. What I was going to say is the handful of people who don't want you to succeed until they succeed.

[49:54] Desi Oakley: Yep. Or they don't want you to succeed more.

[49:57] Alan Seales: Another person's success is not your failure.

[50:04] Desi Oakley: Another person's success is not your failure. Because especially in this business, it's like, it's a lot of luck.

[50:07] Alan Seales: Oh, come on.

[50:08] Desi Oakley: This is who you run into on the street.

[50:09] Alan Seales: Come on. Absolutely. It's timing. It's like, oh my gosh. It's all, it's so much of it is out of our control.

[50:15] Desi Oakley: Oh yeah. Yeah. So I just want to acknowledge that because it's hard. Again, the need for validation, the need for approval, and then just the know like, oh, I'm succeeding. And then like that little grumpy group of people over in the corner.

[50:31] Alan Seales: Always going to be.

[50:31] Desi Oakley: And that's that they're going to be there. They're grumpy little group. And that's why I say just wish them on their merry way. Wish them on their sweet, sweet, sweet, sweet, merry, merry way.

[50:42] Alan Seales: Right. Okay. Well, let's wrap up here.

[50:45] Desi Oakley: Okay. No. I want to talk forever.

[50:47] Alan Seales: I know. You have somewhere to be. Okay. So the three standard closing questions I ask everybody on the podcast. The first is what motivates you?

[50:58] Desi Oakley: What motivates me? I think knowing that I could put out something in this world that could have a positive effect on someone that motivates me. Like knowing I could make a small difference or change somehow.

[51:22] Alan Seales: You are speaking to my soul right now. Okay. What advice would you give to your younger self and younger people listening now starting out down a similar path?

[51:30] Desi Oakley: Okay. It is so good to have your plan right now. Have your plan. It can even be as specific as you have it right now. I'm talking to 16 year old Desi. It's so wonderful that you have this plan and I love how specific it is. And I'm so proud that it is so specific. Yes. Good for you. Have a goal. Now be so open and okay with the fact that it might not look exactly like that, but keep having your goals and then keep changing them as you evolve. But just know it's going to be okay if it doesn't look like that. So as strongly as you're making that goal, be just as quick to release the fact that it doesn't look exactly like that. My favorite quote is, go confidently in the direction of your dreams, Henry David Thoreau.

He doesn't say go confidently right to your dream. Go confidently in the direction of your dreams, somewhere around there. And if you walk that way, just wait. It might not look exactly like you have it planned, but you're on the path. You're on the direction. You're going toward it. You're going towards something and it's going to be good.

[52:47] Alan Seales: All right. Final question. And this is the hardest one. If you can only see one show for the rest of your life, but you can see it as many times as you want, what would you see?

[52:57] Desi Oakley: Oh no. Oh my gosh. I was so upset about what just popped into my head. Oh my word. Okay. Can we laugh for a second in the way that I was going to say "Wicked" because it just really hasn't gotten old for me. We're laughing. Okay. And I'm kind of mad at myself, but honestly, I'm going to say "Come From Away."

[53:21] Alan Seales: Why?

[53:21] Desi Oakley: Genius writing. The story will always be relevant and make it, it will always have an impact. And it's only 90 minutes.

[53:33] Alan Seales: All right. Fair. All right. So we can get you. Although you didn't give me too much time to think about it. So that's what I get. There we go. That's spontaneity.

[53:47] Desi Oakley: Okay. So we can get you online at Desi Oakley on Instagram and Twitter. You are desioakley.com. And anywhere else? Follow Pop Rock Broadway. Yeah. Poprockbroadway.com.

[54:00] Alan Seales: And when are you doing your next class?

[54:05] Desi Oakley: Oh, after the first of the year. We're thinking late January or early Feb.

[54:11] Alan Seales: Oh good. Okay. So there's that. And then if you're around Wichita on December 29th at 7pm, get your tickets to go see her there. You can get more of me at thetheaterpodcast.com. This is of course part of the Broadway Podcast Network. You can find me on Instagram and Twitter at theater underscore podcast on Facebook slash official theater podcast. Please leave a rating, leave a review. I love to read that. This is edited by Matthew Hendershot. And thank you to Jukebox the Ghost for the intro and outro music. And Desi, thank you most to you. Wonderful, wonderful conversation.

[54:36] Desi Oakley: Thank you so much. Thank you for having me. This was so wonderful.