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[0:00] Alan Seales: Welcome to The Theatre Podcast, intimate personal conversations with theatre's biggest names.

[0:10] Alan Seales: I'm your host, Alan Seales, and my guest today is Will Hochman, who is making his Broadway debut in the psychological thriller, The Sound Inside, written by Adam Rapp, who is a Pulitzer Prize finalist. This show is incredible. It just throws you into some of the depths of the human psyche. It's a two-person show. It's Will and Mary Louise Parker on stage the entire time. This guy is incredible. He didn't do anything in the theatre. He didn't do anything until he was 20 in college, and he's now making his Broadway debut at 27. So you do the math. He just all of a sudden took to acting, wanted to explore it, was listening to his own voice inside of his head, and also got an economics degree. So of course, he's got that, but just fell into this love of theatre and is really using it as a way to find himself and express himself.

So to get a better knowledge of the industry, he's also started out doing production work. So he was a second AD, which helped him understand the directing side of things. He's been a writer, he's been a producer, and he's actually writing his own scripts now, which is incredible. And just a really intellectual guy. Seems like an old soul. He's a 27-year-old that just cannot get enough learning, doesn't like to go out like normal 27-year-olds do, just wants to become a more globally responsible, aware, knowledgeable person. And I can highly, highly respect that. So before we get into this interview, please, as always, visit me on thetheaterpodcast.com, show your support for the podcast via thetheaterpodcast.com, slash Patreon, P-A-T-R-E-O-N. And as always, please find me on Instagram and Twitter, theater underscore podcast.

Reach out, say hi. I love to say hi to everybody. Now, everyone, please enjoy this episode with Will Hochman. This Brooklyn-born actor is currently making his Broadway debut in the play The Sound Inside, written by Pulitzer Prize finalist Adam Rapp, directed by Tony winner David Cromer, starring alongside Tony winner Mary Louise Parker. Obviously, this guy has talent pouring out of every pore of his body, Will Hochman. Welcome to The Theatre Podcast.

[2:48] Will Hochman: Thanks so much, man.

[2:49] Alan Seales: You are in good company.

[2:51] Will Hochman: With you, yes.

[2:54] Alan Seales: I mean, in the show, The Sound Inside, just getting great reviews.

[2:59] Will Hochman: Oh, thanks.

[3:00] Alan Seales: And in the show, it's pushing boundaries. But I guess for those who don't know, I read different reviews that give different levels of synopsis and whatnot. So like, how do you want, what do you want to tell people about it without giving too much away?

[3:15] Will Hochman: Yeah, let's not give too much away. Well, people are saying it's a psychological thriller, which I suppose is true. Do you think it's a psychological thriller?

[3:25] Alan Seales: I think so, because you break the fourth wall. You're talking to the audience.

[3:29] Will Hochman: Quite a lot. Oh, yeah.

[3:30] Alan Seales: And you're basically saying, the way it's written, your two characters, you and Mary Louise Parker, you're talking to the audience about your characters in a way that most people are never able to talk about in their real lives, like the innermost thoughts.

[3:48] Will Hochman: Yeah. Yeah, yeah. You know, it'd be as while we're talking right now, you know, if I were to just say, and then I looked across at you and you scratched your thumb. And I thought, and then said something profound about the way that you scratched your thumb. And if I wanted to do that, I'd have to go be Adam Rapp and write for 30 years and be a brilliant playwright.

[4:09] Alan Seales: Yeah.

[4:10] Will Hochman: So yeah, the show is about a Yale University creative writing professor who is alone in the world and gets diagnosed with a serious illness. And as the horrors of that unfold, she develops this profound relationship with a mysterious, precocious, brilliant, also lonely freshman writer in her class.

[4:37] Alan Seales: So your character is 18?

[4:38] Will Hochman: Yeah. 18, 19. He's a freshman.

[4:41] Alan Seales: Right. Okay. And the character doesn't quite connect with his peers.

[4:47] Will Hochman: Yes, doesn't. And it has a tough time connecting with anyone, frankly.

[4:51] Alan Seales: Right.

[4:51] Will Hochman: He lives a lot in his head and in the world of literature and the world of writing, and is far from home and doesn't really have a lot of friends. And so, you know, imagine if all you did all day was read and write and talk to basically no one.

[5:09] Alan Seales: There are some people I know that are sort of like that.

[5:11] Will Hochman: Sure. Yeah.

[5:13] Alan Seales: Well, okay. So that's a good segue in my mind. He thinks to himself, now is a good time to talk about Will's childhood.

[5:21] Will Hochman: Yeah. So how much of little Will got brought into this character?

[5:30] Alan Seales: Oh, man. Wow. So are you saying how much was 18-year-old Will like 18-year-old Christopher?

[5:37] Will Hochman: Not even 18. I mean, go back to the beginning. You grew up in Brooklyn.

[5:40] Alan Seales: I grew up in Brooklyn.

[5:41] Will Hochman: Yeah. What part of Brooklyn?

[5:44] Alan Seales: Carroll Gardens, Cobble Hill.

[5:45] Will Hochman: Oh, nice. I'm in Boreham Hill now.

[5:46] Alan Seales: Oh, happy days. I want to know where you live now, because it's a podcast, so we'll talk about that later.

[5:51] Will Hochman: Okay.

[5:51] Alan Seales: Oh, right on. Well, so you know the neighborhood.

[5:53] Will Hochman: Mm-hmm.

[5:54] Alan Seales: Welcome. How long have you been there?

[5:56] Will Hochman: Two years.

[5:57] Alan Seales: Okay.

[5:58] Will Hochman: Just over two years now, yeah.

[5:59] Alan Seales: Oh, great. Well, when we're not recording, I'll ask you about where you are, and we can talk about local shops.

[6:03] Will Hochman: Okay.

[6:04] Alan Seales: That neighborhood has a really special place for me. You know, that's where I spent my entire childhood. I didn't even go into Manhattan that much. I'm really like, I'm a Brooklyn boy.

[6:14] Will Hochman: Mm-hmm.

[6:16] Alan Seales: So anyway, I grew up playing sports.

[6:21] Will Hochman: I played baseball. I played basketball. Very outgoing, full of energy, full of life, running around a lot, a lot of friends. I had a childhood that I look back on really fondly and remember well.

[6:34] Will Hochman: And big kudos to my parents, Ken and Marlene, whom I love very much. I think they're extraordinary parents. And I credit a lot of where I am now with the seeds that they instilled in me that sort of tilled the soil that allowed to grow.

[6:49] Alan Seales: Mm-hmm.

[6:50] Will Hochman: And I have a twin sister and an older brother. And so I had a big, loving family that I grew up in.

[6:55] Alan Seales: If she feels pain, if she gets cut, do you feel pain?

[6:58] Will Hochman: You know, we were, let's say, seven or eight. And my sister and my mom and I were going for a walk. And I was all excited. And I was like, oh, I'm going to jump on stuff and run on stuff. And my sister said, hold on, I need to go get something. And she runs off into the house somewhere and gets a little fanny pack and comes back with a little fanny pack. And we go for a walk. And we walk a couple blocks. We walk a couple more blocks. And I'm an energetic little kid. And I jump up on a curb. And I lose my balance, which I never did as a kid and still rarely do. I'm like, I should be a balanced guy. And cut my knee. And my knee starts bleeding. And my sister doesn't blink. She opens her fanny pack and takes out a Band-Aid. Because she knew.

[7:45] Alan Seales: She knew.

[7:46] Will Hochman: She knew.

[7:48] Alan Seales: Oh, that's creepy cool.

[7:48] Will Hochman: Yeah.

[7:48] Alan Seales: OK.

[7:52] Will Hochman: Yeah.

[7:52] Alan Seales: All right. So good childhood. One of three, I guess, growing up in Brooklyn.

[7:56] Will Hochman: Technically the youngest of three. I mean, we're twins. But she's two minutes older.

[8:00] Alan Seales: Two minutes older, yeah.

[8:01] Will Hochman: OK. So in Brooklyn, sports, sports, sports, sports, sports, sports. Where did the performing, where did theater come in?

[8:09] Will Hochman: Hard to know exactly. It's a thing that I've always wanted to do and felt really drawn to. I would watch movies with my family. And there'd be a little voice. You know, listen to the sound inside. Listen to the sound inside is a repeated refrain that Mary Louise says during our show. And I had that little voice as a kid. I'd watch a movie and go, I want to do that. And I think I kind of can. I don't know why. But to a certain degree, I feel like that's the thing that I want to do. And never did at all. And I didn't do any plays in school. I never did any plays in high school. I would always want to do the talent shows and would find a different reason not to do it. Every now and then, I'd get on stage and I'd play guitar. And I'd play a song and sing with a buddy or something. But I never really let myself listen to the sound inside, frankly. And yeah, so it took until really junior year of college to take an acting class.

[9:10] Alan Seales: Wow.

[9:11] Will Hochman: Yeah.

[9:11] Alan Seales: The first time I ever acted properly, I was 20.

[9:17] Will Hochman: And how old are you now?

[9:18] Alan Seales: 27.

[9:19] Will Hochman: So seven.

[9:20] Alan Seales: Wow.

[9:20] Will Hochman: Seven years to Broadway from the very first time you did anything.

[9:24] Alan Seales: Yeah.

[9:25] Will Hochman: That's impressive.

[9:25] Alan Seales: Oh, well, thank you.

[9:26] Will Hochman: It astounds me as well. It's something else, man. Now we have this beautiful view in Midtown. It's crazy.

[9:33] Alan Seales: Oh, yeah.

[9:34] Will Hochman: It's crazy.

[9:34] Alan Seales: Broadway Podcast Network Studio.

[9:36] Will Hochman: Hey.

[9:36] Alan Seales: Ain't no joke. I just fully expected. I've been watching Parks and Rec, and I just fully expected there to be. Have you seen that show?

[9:44] Will Hochman: Of course.

[9:44] Alan Seales: Yeah, I just fully expected there to be that noise on the radio show. You know, what's the name of the show? Something.

[9:50] Will Hochman: Oh, Nick Kroll's character.

[9:53] Alan Seales: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[9:54] Will Hochman: Oh, crap. I can't remember.

[9:55] Alan Seales: Anyway, I thought there was going to be like.

[9:56] Will Hochman: Uh, uh, uh, uh.

[9:58] Alan Seales: Right when you said.

[9:59] Will Hochman: Uh, uh, uh, uh.

[10:00] Alan Seales: Yeah, I'm glad there wasn't.

[10:02] Will Hochman: No, no.

[10:03] Alan Seales: We're a little bit more serious on this podcast.

[10:06] Will Hochman: Oh, okay, okay, okay. I'll stop making jokes. I apologize.

[10:08] Alan Seales: Oh, please don't. This is you. This is all about.

[10:11] Will Hochman: A serious podcast.

[10:12] Alan Seales: Oh, no, we're funny. We're smiling. He said to himself nervously, hoping that the podcast is going well.

[10:19] Will Hochman: You have an economics degree.

[10:22] Alan Seales: I do.

[10:22] Will Hochman: From college. Where'd you go to college, by the way?

[10:24] Alan Seales: Colby College up in Maine.

[10:27] Will Hochman: So economics.

[10:28] Alan Seales: Yeah.

[10:29] Will Hochman: I went into college thinking I was going to double major in international relations and Spanish. Secretly, I knew I was always going to be an actor. And so all of this was sort of doing what I felt pressure to do from some ambiguous third societal party. You know, I'm supposed to go to a good college and I'm supposed to get a good degree. And I really stepped into that line. And so I wound up studying economics, not so much from an innate interest in economics, more that I like math and I'm good at math to a degree. And it's what other people in school were studying. And so I sort of just like stepped into line as this sheep. And I was like, bah, I'll study economics. OK. And did, knowing full well that it wasn't really the thing that I was crazy about.

And it wasn't even necessarily the thing that I was that good at. I was just doing it because it was the thing to do. And yeah, at a certain point, I had to change directions. And I learned a lot studying economics. And I think it gave me certain frameworks of thinking about the world and thinking analytically and critically. And all of those things are great. But frankly, I think a lot of the way that I sort of approach my career and look at navigating the world comes from my family and my parents, who are both hardworking and curious and brilliant and both entrepreneurs in their own right. And so a lot of that.

[11:58] Will Hochman: I was going to ask if any of the pressure came from your parents. Because I think the way that I framed it was pretty reasonable. I didn't say, hey, I'm throwing away everything I'm doing and I'm going to pursue this crazy thing. I framed it like, okay, I'm starting a small business. Here's sort of the way that I'm thinking about it. And what do you guys think about the way that I'm thinking about it? I want to do this right. And so it sort of turned into a family think tank where, okay, how do we... Oh, that's brilliant. We call it the Hochman think tank. We sort of put our five heads together and we all have different points of view. It's really interesting. It's interesting you said, you approach it like starting a small business because that's literally what you're doing.

Totally. And you're selling yourself. You have to sell yourself to casting directors, to press agents, to executives. You're putting yourself out there in whatever way you can. Which can feel really icky. That runs so counter to the actual job, which is be an artist and open your soul and tell stories and meet amazing people. That's the beautiful part of the job. And then there's this whole other thing, which is, well, what street do you need to walk down to even get to do that?

[13:47] Will Hochman: Yeah. Well, I think that's part of why, that's my opinion, is part of why a lot of people get really taken advantage of. Because it's your job to be vulnerable and expose the sound inside without trying to be funny. And people can manipulate that so easily. Sure. I feel very grateful that I have a loving family with good business sense and diverse points of view. Frankly, my first agents, my first de facto agents, were like my family. I'd come home and I'd say, hey, brother, sister, mom, and dad, here's the things I'm facing. Here's how I'm thinking about it. What do you guys think about the way that I'm thinking about it? And so that really helps quite a lot. Did any of them have any performance experience? Were they approaching it from an acting side or from a business side?

[14:41] Will Hochman: No, no, no. More just business, level-headed, how to make it in the world. My dad runs an advertising agency, small business, which he runs himself. My mother created the Doll and Toy Museum of New York many years ago. And just about the same time that I became an actor, she decided she was going to recreate the Doll and Toy Museum, excuse me, into the Toy Museum of New York. And she turned her museum into a traveling show. She had no acting experience either. She wrote a show called Queen Marlene's Toy Theater, starring herself, doing the history of toys. And to this day, now, travels around the city performing the history of toys and now all kinds of other things many years later. And so my mom and I became performers at the same time, interestingly, which flipped our family on its head a little bit, which is really interesting. I feel like this is something that Netflix is going to make a series out of one day.

[15:42] Will Hochman: Great. Let's put that out in the world, the history of toys. Great. Do you watch The Toys That Made Us?

[15:49] Alan Seales: No.

[15:50] Will Hochman: It's a new Netflix series. Mom, I'm sure you're going to listen to this. What's it called?

[15:55] Alan Seales: The Toys That Made Us.

[15:56] Will Hochman: The Toys That Made Us on Netflix. We'll talk about it. Yeah, it's like Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, a whole hour about how that came to be.

[16:01] Alan Seales: Oh, so cool.

[16:02] Will Hochman: Yeah, yeah. So obviously, whoever's writing all this stuff at Netflix, we're all children of the 80s because these are all toys.

[16:10] Alan Seales: Yeah, right.

[16:11] Will Hochman: Oh, these are so good. I like to think about the pitches for things like this. I imagine the pitch for Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, if you frame it on a stand-up, would be so funny. Guy walks into his boss's office. He's like, hey, listen, I got an idea. The boss is like, what's the idea? He's like, teenagers are turtles with Renaissance painter names, and they love pizza. Boom. And they're teenagers.

[16:35] Alan Seales: Yeah, right.

[16:36] Will Hochman: Exactly. Yeah. Anyway, that episode was good because it was a hard sell.

[16:42] Alan Seales: Yeah.

[16:43] Will Hochman: Yeah. Not hard to believe that. Okay, so you have film credits starting in 2015, but not as an actor, as a writer, as a director, as a production manager, and even second AD.

[16:56] Alan Seales: Yeah.

[16:57] Will Hochman: So when you were acting, did you approach the business side of it first, or were you acting at the same time for the uncredited work or the stuff that didn't go on IMDb?

[17:09] Will Hochman: Right. How did that time of your life shake out? The way that I started thinking about it and the way that I think about it still is I want to think critically about the world. And I want to be a part of telling stories that are honest and ask hard questions and are funny and make you laugh and make you smile and make you think about the world. And I want to work with incredible people. And I want to become a more fully formed human being. And I want to have amazing experiences. Looking at that from a big picture, being an actor is not the only way to reach those things.

[17:48] Will Hochman: And I didn't go to acting school. I don't have a BFA or MFA in acting. I didn't grow up surrounded by that. And so I was committed to checking my ego at the door. Okay, I really want to learn about this industry. And I really want to have some experiences. So let me just go do stuff. So, yeah, I wrote a short film and directed it and acted in it. And that was an amazing experience. I knew nothing about it. I knew nothing about it, but did it because I was curious and felt and continue to feel a strong, burning need to write stories.

[18:29] Will Hochman: And so I continue to write today.

[18:30] Alan Seales: Do you?

[18:31] Will Hochman: I do. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Four full-length plays in the last since graduating from college, each one less bad than the one before it. And I'm excited about the two ones I'm developing now. I think there's promise.

[18:43] Alan Seales: Have you sent any to Anthony?

[18:44] Will Hochman: Anthony?

[18:45] Alan Seales: Oh, sorry, Anthony. I said Anthony Rapp.

[18:47] Will Hochman: Adam Rapp. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. Adam and I have a wonderful relation. I've loved him very much. I think he's brilliant. We're doing a job right now. You know, you save that for another day. He's written an extraordinary play. And frankly, doing this play takes most, if not all, of my creative time and energy and focus. And so I hesitate to put creative energies elsewhere while working on this play because every night I step into a ring with Muhammad Ali. And if I don't give my full focus to Muhammad Ali, she will knock me out, frankly.

[19:23] Alan Seales: Does Mary Louise?

[19:25] Will Hochman: Mary?

[19:26] Alan Seales: Mary Louise.

[19:27] Will Hochman: Does she give you shit, if you can tell, like you're elsewhere?

[19:32] Will Hochman: I try to never be elsewhere is my answer. I try to never, ever, ever be elsewhere. And I think so far I've done an okay job of doing that. The writing is incredible. And to keep the play alive, both of us have to pull the tension really tight and keep it tight. And so there isn't really room for my mind to wander. You know, there's not like eight other people having a conversation over there and I can breathe for a moment and scratch my armpit or something. No, no. I step on stage and there's nowhere to hide. It's just the two of us.

[20:05] Alan Seales: The whole time?

[20:07] Will Hochman: Yeah. Much like this, actually. You and I have intimate microphones and there's no one else here. I can't check out right now. I've got to be on every word you're saying.

[20:16] Alan Seales: Right.

[20:17] Will Hochman: Right. Well, I won't give you shit if you need to scratch your armpit or something.

[20:21] Will Hochman: Done. Armpit scratched. And also, I'm not even sure if I agree with the framing of like, you know, would she give me shit? We have the job to do of telling Adam's story directed by David, who is just brilliant. David, my God. And so it's more like how can we do our job at the best level possible? And if at any moment we slip from that, how can we keep each other up?

[20:46] Alan Seales: Great.

[20:48] Will Hochman: Yeah. I mean, just watching the two of you on stage, and I mean, I've been a fan of hers for years. I think it would be so surreal for me. I'm a little bit older than you are, so like I was heavy into Weeds. Just loved it.

[21:04] Alan Seales: Yeah.

[21:05] Will Hochman: Right? Did you go back and watch it at all?

[21:07] Alan Seales: Not since this.

[21:08] Will Hochman: No, no. But many years ago.

[21:10] Alan Seales: Oh, you watched it originally?

[21:11] Will Hochman: I watched it. Yeah. I mean, just coming into a show and seeing like this amazing Tony winning actress.

[21:16] Alan Seales: Yeah.

[21:17] Will Hochman: I mean, just the combinations out the wazoo for everything else. Like when you got the call, yeah, I got the part. A, did you know it was opposite her? And then B, do you remember that moment?

[21:27] Will Hochman: I knew it was opposite her. Yes, yes. I did. I remember the moment very well. I was sitting in my apartment alone. It was a sunny morning, maybe about 10 a.m., and the chemistry test was the day before. And I, frankly, I felt perfect for the part. I felt like I understood roughly the world that Adam was creating. I felt like I could find my way into Christopher Dunn. I prepared the hell out of the scene. I prepared a page before it started. I prepared a page after it started. And I did everything I could in the audition that I knew how to. And so if it didn't go my way, I knew I wouldn't walk out of there feeling dejected or feeling like I would regret anything because I used all the tools that I knew how to use.

[22:17] Will Hochman: I'm sure there are tools that I don't have. I used the ones that I had. And so I walked out feeling like, okay, I feel like I'm right for this part, and I think that audition went pretty well. I hope I get it. And I got an email the next morning from one of the casting associates, and she was like, hey, morning, stay tuned. And that was all, you know, good news coming your way was the email. So now I'm in my apartment just rocking back and forth, you know, twitching out, pacing my apartment. I can't do anything. I can't read. I can't do anything. And maybe 45 minutes later, my manager calls me. And normally I pick up, and I'm like, hey, how are you? What's going on? I picked the phone up, and I said, tell me, tell me. And, you know, and, yeah, I got the offer.

[23:04] Will Hochman: And that was for the Williamstown Theater Festival a year and a half ago. Broadway was never guaranteed. A New York run was never guaranteed. This was for a two-week run in Williamstown. But if I go back to sort of the big picture thing, the thing that I want to do is tell compelling stories that ask hard questions, make people laugh, work with incredible people. This project, I got to hit all of those things. And it's a two-week run in Williamstown? Fine. This is why I became an actor, for this two-week run in Williamstown. That was extraordinary. And I didn't get into Williams College, so that was like, oh, I get to go back on my own terms now. Happy days.

[23:44] Will Hochman: How long after the Williamstown run did you know that it was going to come to Broadway? Well, the play sort of had a – it got passed around between producers, and there were rumors of a thing, and maybe it would.

[23:57] Will Hochman: But formally, formally, it was all set to go. You know, we have the offer, it's happening. I think in March of this year, April in this year, there was rumblings of things for quite some time, but March. So Adam Rapp, obviously, or he's a novelist, of course, who writes a lot, he's written a lot of things in the past that are very small casts, like small number of characters in a very intimate setting, more for the young adult audience. And did you, were you familiar with his work before this play, or did you start reading after you got cast in this? The first year after college, I, you know, if we go back to sort of your question from maybe 15 minutes ago, I was trying to just learn stuff and do stuff, right?

And so I wind up getting connected with MFA students up at Columbia, directors up at Columbia who are getting their master's in directing, and they need actors for their in-class directing exercises. So I went up and wind up connecting with a bunch of Columbia kids. And that, you know, I learned how to act on camera on the job with Columbia kids, students, directors, who many of whom are still good friends of mine today. So anyway, one of the things we did, one of the first things was a scene from Red Light Winter. And I read the play, and it rocked me. And that was a very important time in my life. I was becoming an artist for the first time. I was reading literature in a way that I was enjoying it, not just for an English class.

I was getting to read poetry. I was watching a lot of movies. You know, I was becoming the person that I always imagined myself maybe I could be, which was really exciting. So anyway, I did a scene from that show for the Columbia students, and it just resonated really deeply with me, that it just sort of rocked me to my core. And in the years that followed, that scene and that play have stayed with me, ethereally. I don't really know why. Like, the play just couldn't go away. And so then when I found out about this one, I just sort of felt like, oh, of course. Of course it's Adam Rapp. And it's his Broadway debut, too. Right, that's why, that's literally why I was bringing this question up. Oh my god, man.

Is it surprising, was it surprising that this is the first time any of his things have made it onto the Broadway stage? Well, from whose perspective? Surprising for who? For you. Like, with your expectations of his work and how good it is. Yeah, that seems surprising to me, that it's Adam's first go-around on Broadway. Yeah. He also writes really, you know, intense stuff that isn't necessarily the most, you know, Broadway-producible stuff. He's writing amazing, hard question-asking off-Broadway work. But he's an incredible writer, and, you know, I'm so happy for him. It's great. I'm so happy. God, he deserves it so much. It's wonderful. Well, everyone needs to see this, just simply because, I mean, if you want, like, drama, you want something that's going to go home and make you think, right?

The thing that I think is brilliant about Adam is he is unafraid to stare at things baldly and unflinchingly, and then to examine those things with intellect, and wit, and humor. And so anyone who's doing that, I think, gosh, that's what we need, right? Yeah, yeah. I look at musicals right now, and I don't have anything truly against the musicals that are on Broadway right now. But I'm craving another musical right now with a completely original concept. Because, like, Moulin Rouge is based on something, and Tina is based on something, and Jagged Little Pill is based on something, and everything is based on something popular from a decade or more ago. And I love that The Sound Inside is just this concept and this story that is just straight out of somebody's imagination.

The deepest part of their imagination brought most likely, right? Yeah, yeah. Well, I can't speak to any of the musical theater stuff, but yeah, Adam said something once that resonated with me. He said that writing a novel for him is like jazz, and writing a play is like architecture. Huh. And so it strikes me that this play is probably some combination of them both, of tapping into the subconscious and the unconscious and just free-flowing jazz. And then once it's all out there, oh yeah, but how do we make a building out of all this and piecing it together? Well, and so I think David Cromer probably has a lot to do with that. Oh, boy. I mean, he won the Tony for Band's Visit last year. He did.

Just an incredible director. I guess, what was the process of working with him like? What did he bring to your performance that you didn't know was there? I think David is so good at just pulling out honesty. Really? Yeah, we'd be in the rehearsal room, and we're trying to figure out a moment. He'd be like, guys, guys, guys, just what would a person do? Just do it like a person would do it. And to have, I think for a director to have that level of confidence, to have so much experience directing that you can distill it all the way down to just what would a person do? It's really all you need, right? And I think it's probably a testament to his faith in Adam's writing and his faith in us as actors to bring it to life.

We're not putting any hats on hats, right? We're not showing you a moment and then doing the moment. It's just what, just behave like people, which he gave us the space to do. Was Adam in the room for a lot of the rehearsal? Oh, yeah, for a lot of it. Really? Yeah, yeah, yeah. We moved a lot of things around early on in the process, a lot of pages around and moments. So that was a collaborative effort, A, between Adam very generously being open to his work being shaped like that in the play, B, David facilitating all of that and getting his fingers in the weeds, and C, Mary Louise might be a dramaturgical genius. Ignore the acting. Just from the writing and thinking perspective, she would say, okay, but if we do this, what if we move this bit to over there and then we sort of tweak it like this?

And we would all sit there and go, yeah, that's a pretty good idea. That's pretty reasonable. And I really tip the hat to Adam for being open to that and collaborating all together. I don't know if all of her ideas were home runs, but many of them I think probably were. That's really cool when you can have, I mean, not only a director and a playwright who are so open to taking that feedback from the actors who did literally move entire scenes around or entire pages or whatever the question is. If you're moving moments, that changes the rhythm of a show. Sure, sure. And Adam is a brilliant composer, right? He writes music. He writes these plays that have an internal music to them and an internal flow, which I can really feel, I mean, God, in the moments that are really good, you can just feel like you're playing a piece of music, which is how it feels often.

I've said this to him too, the sound inside sort of feels like a symphony. He's written this beautiful piece of music that if we just get up, okay, now I got to play the violin, she's got to play the cello, now I got to play the oboe, she's got to play the guitar, that if we just do it all together, it becomes, hopefully, if we do our jobs right, very beautiful and very moving. Well, some people have agreed with you. I mean, you mentioned in a Time article from December 1st, the article was the 10 best theater performances of 2019 and you were in there. Gosh, yeah, that's something else. Thanks, Time. I don't know what more to say. Thank you so much. We're doing our best and it's extraordinary to know that people are moved by this and people are responding.

Did you know that was coming? Do you know when reviewers, like Times, I mean, they're not a reviewer, but do you know when they're in the audience? No. Did you see the article after it came out or did you get a heads up from the publicist or anything? For the Time article? Yeah. No, I think I saw it on Instagram or something. Oh, really? Yeah. Oh, that's ridiculous. You'd have a Google alert set up for yourself? No, no, no. That's what moms are for. She's like, this person over there on this bulletin board is talking shit about your performance. I don't like her. Actually, my dad does a lot of that. My dad peruses, combing through the internet, he's like, Will, one person said this one thing about this one thing.

Dad, that's okay. Yeah, he's fine. Dad, you know 900 people came tonight, right? I got to do it every night. One out of 900 are probably not going to be their favorite play. Well, I hope so. I hope all 900 love it. That's the idea. Yeah, that's the hope. But where do you see yourself going in the future? Because you do have such an eclectic background in the production side. And now you're talking about writing. And you do play music. And so it sounds like you sing. I like to. I really enjoy singing. Where do you want to go with this? Now that you get on Broadway, and for a lot of people, it's the ceiling that once you break through, it opens a lot of doors. Where do you hope to move into next?

It's not the what's next question. Yeah. Because that's annoying, and I don't ever want to ask it. But career-wise, what genre, what area do you think you want to focus on? Well, I go back to the big picture thing. What's next? I want to be smart, and ask hard questions, and make people laugh, and unite people. One of the things that I think is beautiful about theater is that, for better or worse, you're in a room together with 200, or 500, or 1,000 people. And in a time where things feel divisive, and things feel angry, and people are on their phones a lot, just to sit in a room with people is really special, right? And if the play is good, more times than not, you walk out, frankly, feeling more connected to your fellow human.

So that feels like a really beautiful thing to be a part of, right? Hopefully, whatever comes next continues to do that. I'd love to act in a beautiful film. I'm going to continue to write the pieces that I'm working on. I'd love to direct a play. I'd love to direct a film. I really enjoy throwing paint on the wall, and seeing what sticks. So we'll see. See what sticks. Yeah. I think that's a sign, a good sign. You're able to have multiple plates spinning. And eventually, one of those is going to succeed, whatever you put in air quotes as a success. And then I think it helps everything else along. Yeah. Oh, man. It's been so valuable to try the other disciplines. It's been so valuable. ADing was a really valuable experience.

Oh, man, was that a valuable experience. Because I got to see actors being directed from the outside. I got to see directors directing. And I got to be in this role that required a lot of organizational focus and timing and not that much creativity. The first thing that I ever did when I graduated, the first paid thing I did was a day of background acting on Royal Pains. Oh, yeah? Oh, yeah. Yeah. I wanted to know what it was like. I wanted to, okay, what's it like to be a background actor? Got it. Okay. Now I understand. And I'd never been on a set before, ever. Oh, really? What's it like to be on?

[35:56] Will Hochman: Let's go find out. I don't know, let's go find out. So, we'll see, I'm trying to have experiences in the world and learn new things and challenge myself and grow. Oh, speaking of which, I was reading too, that you mentioned you've pretty much read all the literature that's mentioned in the show, in your show.

[36:14] Alan Seales: I've read a lot of it, yeah. I've had this unbelievable literature education courtesy of Adam Rapp. It's great. I've spent the last year and a half reading all these books with the hope, I mean, I started right when I was offered the play back in, I want to say, April of 2018. So, it's been a year and a half of reading Dostoevsky and James Salter and Sylvia Plath, J.D. Salinger.

[36:42] Alan Seales: Do you have a favorite?

[36:43] Will Hochman: I think, probably, of the books mentioned in the play, Franny and Zooey and Light Years by James Salter probably moved me the most, the two of them. And that was, you know, I had never read Catcher in the Rye. I'd never read it.

[36:59] Alan Seales: Really?

[37:00] Will Hochman: Yeah. So, I read Franny and Zooey and that cracked my world wide open. So, I read all of J.D. Salinger. I read all his stuff. Oh, man, can he write.

[37:09] Alan Seales: You seem like an old soul. Do people tell you that?

[37:11] Will Hochman: Ah, I guess. I guess I've been told that.

[37:16] Alan Seales: Yeah, like you're not even 27. We'll call that mid-20s still, but you have this.

[37:23] Will Hochman: Someone called me a middle-aged man yesterday.

[37:27] Alan Seales: Knowing you were 27?

[37:28] Will Hochman: Yeah. I said, I'm not middle-aged.

[37:31] Alan Seales: No.

[37:32] Will Hochman: At all. I hope not.

[37:34] Alan Seales: Right.

[37:35] Will Hochman: Gosh, I hope that wasn't like a portentous omen or something.

[37:38] Alan Seales: Geez.

[37:39] Will Hochman: Yeah.

[37:39] Alan Seales: Was it like a 12-year-old that told you that?

[37:41] Will Hochman: No, no, no, no, no.

[37:44] Alan Seales: Yeah. Well, I was saying, your quest for knowledge and your desire to learn and expand your mind is something that, I mean, even among myself and my peers, didn't come in until well into our 30s.

[38:00] Will Hochman: Because you want to get out the crazy, like in your 20s, you want to go, let's get drunk. And let's, oh, it's a Thursday. Oh, it's a Friday. Oh, it's a Saturday. Let's just go out every single night in New York, because you can. And maybe this is, actually, just occurred to me, maybe this is because you're from New York that it causes kids to grow up faster.

[38:23] Will Hochman: I think there may be an aspect of truth in that. I feel like I lived a lot of lives growing up. I grew up in Carroll Gardens, and then I went to middle school in Coney Island. And so I got on the yellow school bus and drove out to Coney Island every day. And then went to high school in Bay Ridge. And I just lived all these different lives. If I walked to the corner to go get pizza, on my way there, I'd hear people with accents from all around the world speaking all kinds of different languages. And this is before iPhones or cell phones. And so it just requires a certain level of awareness in the world. Okay, I don't even know if that guy speaks English. I got to pay attention here.

[39:01] Alan Seales: Yeah, maybe that's what it is. I dated a girl many years ago. I dated a girl who grew up in Brooklyn. And she's like, oh, yeah, I did all these hardcore drugs. And I got drunk all the time. And then I went to college. And I was like, what? Because, gosh, where I was from, you did all that stuff after college or maybe in college.

[39:29] Will Hochman: Yeah, so here it's a little bit accelerated.

[39:31] Alan Seales: Yeah, yes, yes. I think that's true. I came into acting so late that by the time I dove in, I didn't want to go out and party. I didn't want to go out to the bars on the weekends. I wanted to read books and watch movies. And every minute that I had felt like a minute to learn or to expand or to become a more fully formed artist, I had a fake ID in high school. I went to the bars. You know what I mean? That it was time for a new chapter.

[39:59] Will Hochman: There you go.

[40:00] Alan Seales: So you already did that.

[40:02] Will Hochman: Before most people ever did, you were doing it.

[40:05] Alan Seales: Yeah, I guess so.

[40:09] Will Hochman: Okay, yes. So we'll wrap up here. And there are three standard closing questions that I ask everybody to end the episode. The first one is, what motivates you?

[40:23] Will Hochman: What motivates me? Adding light and joy into the world. Making the people around me whom I love proud of me. And making life more full and making the world a more livable place.

[40:42] Alan Seales: All right. Okay. There's no wrong answer. Everybody's answer is also blueberry pie.

[40:52] Will Hochman: If you got paid in blueberry pie and could therefore pay your bills.

[40:56] Alan Seales: That'd be okay.

[40:56] Will Hochman: In blueberry pie.

[40:57] Alan Seales: That'd be okay.

[40:59] Will Hochman: All right.

[40:59] Alan Seales: Yeah. What advice would you give to your younger self and younger people listening now starting out down a similar path?

[41:05] Will Hochman: Oh, man. How young?

[41:07] Alan Seales: You pick.

[41:09] Will Hochman: Starting out on a similar path. I think one of the things that was most valuable to me was spending time alone. And just being alone and dealing with that. And not escaping through the internet. What is it like to just sit in a room and be alone? What thoughts come up? And I think that allowed me to learn a lot about myself. So spend time alone. You know, on that note, too, I tried to detach from technology in small doses as much as I can.

[41:39] Alan Seales: Yeah.

[41:39] Will Hochman: But in small doses. And one of the things I'm very conscious about is when I get into elevators, I want to not pull out my phone.

[41:46] Alan Seales: Oh, interesting.

[41:47] Will Hochman: Because everyone else is on their phone.

[41:48] Alan Seales: Everyone else is on their phone.

[41:50] Will Hochman: And I've been in the elevators walking around with some well-known people and some celebrities. And if you just look up, I'm literally bringing Bob Saget to the next floor. And you're just completely engulfed in Facebook.

[42:03] Alan Seales: No, they're on Twitter tweeting that they're standing next to Bob Saget.

[42:08] Will Hochman: I mean, yeah. Anyway, that's my whole thing. I'm just like, there are small moments of connection. And for people now that are growing up, the art of conversation and the art of looking somebody in the eye, I think, is going away.

[42:28] Alan Seales: Well, I hope not.

[42:29] Will Hochman: Says the old man.

[42:30] Alan Seales: I hope not. Get off my lawn.

[42:32] Will Hochman: Do you find that in your experience?

[42:34] Alan Seales: I do.

[42:34] Will Hochman: I do. And that's part of why I really, really enjoy doing this podcast, is because I can sit down uninterrupted for an hour and look at somebody in the eye, whether I know them or not.

[42:48] Alan Seales: You have to be vulnerable.

[42:49] Will Hochman: I have to be vulnerable. If we're going to make anything here that people are going to want to listen to, it needs to be real.

[42:54] Alan Seales: My phone's on airplane mode across the table.

[42:57] Will Hochman: Yes, it needs to be authentic. And I just feel like there are so many opportunities to connect with people and, like you said, make the world a little bit happier and a better place that we just totally ignore. Because, and I'm completely going on a tangent here, chemically, we are falling in love with our phones.

[43:16] Alan Seales: Oh, that's interesting.

[43:17] Will Hochman: Because oxytocin is released in our brains when it's, you know, the love chemical in your brain. And when you get a like, when you get positive comments, when you're seeing on your social media just all, you know, especially people who are very popular, have a lot of followers, subscribers, they just see this coming and they're going and they have to post. They have to post. Chemically, they're becoming addicted. They're in love with their phones, with their likes, with that validation. And it's really fascinating to me, but yet at the same time makes me really sad.

[43:52] Alan Seales: I love the show Big Mouth. This is Nick Kroll reference number two on this podcast. Shout out Nick Kroll.

[43:57] Will Hochman: I love the show Big Mouth. And on the new season, there's a plot line where Nick Kroll's character basically falls in love with his phone. And she becomes, the phone is anthropomorphized, which sounds crazy, right? Because it's a machine.

[44:11] Alan Seales: Yeah.

[44:11] Will Hochman: But anyway. Okay, so final question.

[44:14] Alan Seales: All right.

[44:15] Will Hochman: If you can only see one show for the rest of your life, but you can see it as many times as you want.

[44:19] Alan Seales: Theater show?

[44:21] Will Hochman: Any show.

[44:21] Alan Seales: Any show.

[44:23] Will Hochman: One show and I can see it as many times I want for the rest of my life. Oh my god. Well, the thing that I'm thinking about is, what is something that has many layers that I can keep mining new truths from, that I can learn a lot from, that will keep my engagement, that brings me joy? Like, I'm sort of filtering through all these files of what's one thing that maybe brings me all of those things. Can I have more wall? Give me more walls.

[44:55] Alan Seales: Give me either movie or theater that happened in the last decade.

[45:06] Will Hochman: Okay, that's very good. I don't know. I love Hamilton so much.

[45:16] Alan Seales: That is not a bad answer.

[45:17] Will Hochman: I love the music so much. And on that same note, Freestyle Love Supreme is another good one. I really want to go see it.

[45:23] Alan Seales: Yeah.

[45:23] Will Hochman: I was thinking maybe I'll go this Sunday night. Anyway, I really want to go. I know they have Sunday night shows.

[45:28] Alan Seales: Yeah.

[45:29] Will Hochman: Please do.

[45:29] Alan Seales: Yeah. And it's different every time.

[45:31] Will Hochman: Cool. And it inspires. I talked with Shockwave, Chris Sullivan and Anissa Folds, a young niece, and they were both like, they blew out my idea of what freestyle was supposed to be, which is, in a lot of people's minds, it's like putting somebody down. You're battling the rap battle, right? But they're like, no, before every show, I got your back. I got your back. I'm here for you. I got your back. So they know that if anybody starts to have struggles, somebody else jumps in and takes over. And they are such a loving, inspiring group. And they don't talk negatively about anything, even when they're making stuff up on stage. It's all just positive.

[46:08] Alan Seales: Positivity.

[46:09] Will Hochman: I love that so much. Yeah. Have you seen the movie Don't Think Twice, the Mike Birbiglia movie?

[46:13] Alan Seales: Oh, I think Mike Birbiglia is a genius. His new show, The New One, just came out on Netflix.

[46:17] Will Hochman: I saw it last year. I don't know Mike at all. I'm just a genuine fan. And in the movie, Don't Think Twice, which is about improv comedians, one of the opening scenes is the five of them walking in sort of this chaotic circle, tapping each other. I got your back. I got your back. I got your back. I got your back. And that image has stayed with me all these years.

[46:37] Alan Seales: That's literally what they do before every show.

[46:38] Will Hochman: That's so beautiful.

[46:39] Alan Seales: Yeah.

[46:39] Will Hochman: That's such a beautiful thing to do in this world, in this day and age. All right. So we can find you online on Twitter and Instagram at Will Hochman. That's...

[46:47] Alan Seales: I'll do it again. We can find you online on Twitter and Instagram at Will Hochman. That's H-O-C-H-M-A-N. And of course, soundinsidebroadway.com, playing until January 12th. Everybody get your tickets. Gosh, it is so good. Anything else? Anywhere else we can find you? Are you on Facebook?

[47:05] Will Hochman: I'm not on... I deleted my Facebook years ago.

[47:07] Alan Seales: Good for you.

[47:08] Will Hochman: Yeah. Yeah. But I'm on Instagram. I use Twitter sparingly.

[47:11] Alan Seales: Yeah.

[47:12] Will Hochman: You can find me in the world. I'm out on the streets walking around.

[47:16] Alan Seales: 8th Avenue and 53rd at exactly 4:30 every Thursday.

[47:21] Will Hochman: Okay.

[47:21] Alan Seales: So you can get more of me at thetheatrepodcast.com. Support this podcast, please, at theatrepodcast.com/patreon. Find me on Instagram and Twitter, theatre underscore podcast. Please leave a rating, leave a review. This is edited by Matthew Hendershot. Thank you to Jukebox the Ghost for the intro and outro music. And Will Hochman, thank you most of all. This has been very, very fun.

[47:40] Will Hochman: Thank you so much. I got your back.

[47:44] Alan Seales: I got your back. I got your back.