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[0:00] Alan Seales: Welcome to the Theatre Podcast. Intimate personal conversations with theatre's biggest names. I am your host, Alan Seales, and this episode is with Rebecca Naomi Jones. And we continue the June takeover from the Bleeding Love podcast, an original radio play on the Broadway Podcast Network that has been getting a lot of attention lately because it's a story about quarantine recorded entirely in quarantine. So it's very meta. And ironically, it was written years and years and years ago, and it just happens to fit the modern times as we speak right now. So this episode with Rebecca is another incredibly fun one. She is a very young lady who has already more TV and film credits and theatre credits than people twice her age.

She is just incredibly humble and talented and a pleasure to work with professionally and a pleasure to know personally. So I'll just leave it at that because the conversation will speak for itself. As always, before we get going, please find me online at theatre underscore podcast on Instagram and Twitter. Visit me at the theatrepodcast.com. Show your support via the theatrepodcast.com slash Patreon P-A-T-R-E-O-N. Please turn to that person next to you and say, Hey, I got this great podcast and you should listen to it because everybody needs to hear good podcasts these days. So now everybody, please enjoy this episode with Rebecca Naomi Jones.

[1:43] Alan Seales: My guest today was born in New York City and performed with the Metropolitan Opera in her youth. She made her Broadway debut in 2008 when Passing Strange transferred from its off-Broadway run and she also stars in the film version. She created the role of What's Her Name in the Green Day rock opera American Idiot and received a Lucille Lortel nomination for Outstanding Featured Actress for Manhattan Theatre Club's Murder Ballad. In the spring of 2014, she was awarded the Lilly Award, which honors women in the theatre. And in 2015, she replaced Lena Hall as Yitzik in Hedwig and the Angry Inch. She followed that with Significant Other and returned to Broadway as Laurie Williams in Daniel Fish's production of Oklahoma, a role which she originally played at St. Ann's Warehouse and was nominated for a Drama Desk Award. This spring, she stars as the badass babe Lolly in the musical podcast Bleeding Love. Rebecca Naomi Jones, welcome to the theatre podcast.

[2:44] Rebecca Naomi Jones: Why, thank you. Thanks for having me.

[2:46] Alan Seales: I hope that bio did you justice. I'm sweating just thinking about what I just said.

[2:53] Rebecca Naomi Jones: Honestly, it made me nervous too.

[2:58] Alan Seales: You've done quite so much and you're still so young. And like, I wanted to get to this kind of later, but I think it sort of makes sense to bring up now that the Lilly Award, which honors women in theatre, you got it at such a young age. Did you sort of realize at the time how big of a deal that was? Or now do you realize how big of a deal it still is?

[3:19] Rebecca Naomi Jones: Yeah, I mean, I feel like that, you know, I'm not so good at receiving those kinds of really nice recognitions. I think I always sort of find a way to make it feel like, oh, the fact that I got it means it's not that big a deal. I don't know, I get sort of awkward about them. It's funny because of course, like, they're so wonderful. And when I don't get recognized for certain things, I feel the same way everybody else feels, which is a little bit like, oh, what did I do wrong? What's wrong with me? But then when I do get versions of them, I always feel a little strange. I had my caricature go up in Sardi's this year during Oklahoma, and it just made me so anxious, you know?

[4:07] Alan Seales: Really?

[4:08] Rebecca Naomi Jones: Yeah. Like, it's such a wonderful thing, but I felt so anxious about gathering friends and family and making a thing of it. Like, I just felt so, I don't know, you know, that voice that we get in our heads that just tells us, like, you're not deserving of this thing. It's really weird that you're here. You know, all that, all that.

[4:30] Alan Seales: It's so hard to be in it. I mean, this is not uncommon.

[4:32] Rebecca Naomi Jones: Totally.

[4:33] Alan Seales: People in this industry, that's what everybody wants. Like, we want the validation. We want the approval. And then when we get it, we're like, but I don't deserve it. Like, it's this constant sort of internal struggle of, I need to be great. And then now I'm given this award and having these things happen to me because I'm great, but I don't feel great.

[4:52] Rebecca Naomi Jones: Yeah. Yeah, it's weird how we play these tricks on ourselves.

[4:56] Alan Seales: So, well, how do you kind of deal with that? Is it one of those things where, like, I was actually talking about this the other day in another interview, and I realized that me personally, those demons, I call them my demons in my head, are only quiet when I am on stage, when I'm in character, when I'm performing. And that's part of why I miss it so much.

[5:17] Rebecca Naomi Jones: Yeah, that's deep. Yeah. Yeah. You know, it depends for me. I feel like sometimes I get them on stage really, really badly. And I, you know, have to sort of navigate my way through them and make friends with them. And yeah, I definitely have had anxiety creep up on me really badly, starting in 2015, when I was actually doing Hedwig, and performance anxiety as well. And it's pretty wild. I mean, definitely during Oklahoma, I had to get myself into a regular meditation practice and do some, like, visualization so I could prepare myself for the fear, you know?

[6:00] Alan Seales: Well, this version of Oklahoma was so different. It's much darker, you know, it's modernized and much sort of overall darker version of the performance. And I mean, was that part of, you think, what got you to where it was? Or was it something leading up coming out of Hedwig?

[6:17] Rebecca Naomi Jones: Yeah, I mean, I think it's both. I think with Hedwig, I was just going through a weird time personally, I think. I was going through some stuff and I felt a little lost. And then, I don't know, I think it was like something physical that actually triggered it the first time. I remember the first day I got an actual real big old panic attack when I was doing Hedwig. And what happened that day was that I went out for a run, and it was really hot out. And I had forgotten, like, I can be really, really sensitive to heat. And I remember, like, coming home and feeling so flushed. And that triggered this panic attack, I'm pretty sure. And then it was like, once my body knew that feeling, it would come back first for like, up the next month, I would get really bad, many hours long panic attacks that would last throughout the afternoon and then throughout the performance at night.

[7:18] Rebecca Naomi Jones: Yeah, so but then it all sort of went away within a month. And then I've had like little sort of hints of it since then, but never anything as bad. But yeah, during Oklahoma, I was just getting like, performance anxiety. And I do think, I mean, I don't think it's because the show itself was dark. But I do think in an ironic way, I think it's because the lights were on in that in the house. And so we, you know, that was such a big part of that production is that we, we could see the audience. And we were always aware of the audience. And we're always aware that we were all in this big room together. And so it's much harder to sort of tune all of that additional stuff out, which is actually such a wonderful exercise in focus and concentration. But I think that was an additional anxiety along with all of the other actor anxieties that we get.

[8:19] Alan Seales: Yeah, I didn't even think about that. Because it's, I've said before, too, that it's, it's easier to perform to a big house of thousands than it is to a room, a black box of 20.

[8:30] Rebecca Naomi Jones: 100%.

[8:31] Alan Seales: Because you're, you're, you can see everyone in the room, in the room of 20. And so, so for something like Oklahoma, yeah, where you're, where you're literally able to see a room, I don't remember how big the house is in the, in the,

[8:45] Rebecca Naomi Jones: I mean, it's usually like seven something, but we took the seats out. So it was like six, six something. Yeah.

[8:52] Alan Seales: That's still a lot of people that you can make direct eye contact with.

[8:55] Rebecca Naomi Jones: That's right. It's a lot.

[8:56] Alan Seales: Wow.

[8:57] Rebecca Naomi Jones: Yeah.

[8:58] Alan Seales: Wow.

[8:59] Alan Seales: Let's go back. Let's go back to then little Rebecca. And you grew up, you were born in New York and like growing up, your mom is Jewish and your father is African American. So like, tell me about your home life.

[9:14] Rebecca Naomi Jones: Well, it was, it was wonderful. I mean, yeah, I think growing up in New York and being mixed is a different thing from growing up other places and being mixed. So, you know, it, it worked out for me for sure. I think I wasn't made aware of how unique that was and how complicated for people that can be until much later. But yeah, it was, it was a wonderful childhood. I mean, I grew up in Tribeca before this fancy pants. It was very like, it felt very much like a small town of like old hippies and artists and their kids. And, and you know, that whole area downtown, like Soho even too at the time, it was already, Soho was already like getting pretty bougie, but, but just like that downtown living was, was really low key.

And, and yeah, my dad was a musician. My dad passed away in 2008, but he, he was a musician. So there was always tons of music in our home. And he was also a music director of an oldies group, the Cadillacs. So, and he also did a lot of coaching for other doo-wop groups and stuff. And so there was constantly vocal groups in our apartment that my dad was coaching on harmonies and stuff. So the apartment was always filled with music in this really wonderful way. And yeah, my mom, my mom is Jewish and they, they had a, you know, like, like anybody, it's never one thing, but they had a happy marriage and, and stayed together until my dad passed. And yeah, it was a good, it was a good upbringing.

I mean, my mom's a photographer, so it was an arty family and my parents really supported my love for singing and theater and on all those things as well. I mean, my parents were so supportive that like, they encouraged all of my interests at the time. So I grew up doing like piano one day a week, opera at the Metropolitan Opera, two days a week, modern dance one day a week. You know, I went to the art students league and took, you know, painting classes one day. So it was like, that was the kind of life that I had growing up was, it was getting to work on all of those things and yeah.

[11:43] Rebecca Naomi Jones: Did your dad get to see your Broadway debut?

[11:47] Alan Seales: He did, actually. That was the last show he saw me in was Passing Strange.

[11:54] Rebecca Naomi Jones: So yeah, that is very meaningful to me, for sure. We had opened, I think we had almost finished the run of the show. My dad passed August 24th, 2008. So actually, I think we closed right before he passed.

[12:17] Alan Seales: Good, good, good. I'm sure that made him very proud.

[12:20] Rebecca Naomi Jones: Yeah, it did. He was a very proud papa.

[12:25] Alan Seales: Well, then, okay, so that was the whole performing. And then you got into singing, and we're performing with the Metropolitan Opera. And when you were young, where did that connection come from?

[12:31] Rebecca Naomi Jones: You know, it came from, I think it was another, a girl that I was friends with from my modern dance class. I'm pretty sure it was that. My mom could confirm this for me. But I'm pretty sure I went to this really fun modern dance class with like, it was a handful of other people. And somebody else in the class was in the children's chorus at the Met and was like, Oh, Rebecca, Rebecca is a singer. She really loves singing. She should go and audition. And my parents looked into it for me. And, you know, it was a really sweet audition process. You had to go into the Met and sing for Elena Doria, the children's choir director of many years, you had to go sing. It was either Happy Birthday or Twinkle Twinkle. I can't remember. Obviously, they have the same melody. Oh, no, they don't. Wait, there is one that has the same melody.

[13:37] Rebecca Naomi Jones: Twinkle twinkle to you. No, that's not right. No, there is one that has the same melody as one of those that I always, well, who knows? Who knows what's happening with my brain anymore? Anyway, it was one of those two songs that you had to sing, which obviously is very simple and straightforward. And if you could, you know, sing in key, if you could stay on pitch, pretty much you were in. And so I spent the next several years in the children's chorus. And it was so great because it was like, I think two or three days a week. I know that they had classes like three days a week, but I don't think you had to go to all of them. You could go to one, two or three. And it was like a really intense session.

You were you met in the basement of the Met. And it was like a bunch of kids in these really tiny, like sort of intense opera chairs and Eleanor Doria at the piano. And she ran a really tight ship. We learned all of this, you know, really intense music. And she was giving us a real education, professional education. And then as the schedule would come in for the season and the operas were scheduled, you know, depending on what operas had kids in them, we would start to work on the music for the various operas and what the actual children's choruses would sing in those various operas. And then certain kids would just be selected to be in those actual operas. So that was a great thing is that, you know, we constantly were in classes.

And then depending on where she put us, we also performed professionally at night in the operas, which was such a great thing to have for me at a young age to have this responsibility to have to be somewhere at a certain time. And, you know, we got paid very little, but we got paid and have the experience of performing on that, you know, incredible stage with those incredible artists.

[15:36] Alan Seales: Oh, cool. Yeah. Remember how young you were at the time or how old you were?

[15:42] Rebecca Naomi Jones: I believe I started at the opera when I was seven and left when I was like 11 or 12. And I only left because Eleanor Doria was like, you know, I love you so much, but you're starting to look like a woman. Like I was starting to, you know, develop or whatever. And at a certain point, like the children's chorus, you have to like really look like a child. So at that point, she was like, I would love to keep working with you, but doing private lessons. And so I did that with her for a while and learned our arias and continued to develop my operatic voice, which actually I kind of continued doing until college. At some point we were doing I went to a like a straight acting conservatory, classical acting conservatory.

But we did have like maybe two singing classes the whole time, the whole four years that I was there. And in one of those singing classes, I sort of I remember sort of discovering one day that I really felt more honest and like in my voice and like myself when I was singing in more of like my chest voice or, you know, the same range as where I speak from. And so I kind of stopped singing operatically around then.

[17:02] Alan Seales: That's that's intense. It's really interesting to me. And I think probably very fortunate to you that you made the decision to go to a strictly acting school because you already had so much singing training.

[17:07] Rebecca Naomi Jones: Yeah. And I know I know a lot of people who are like, I'm really good at singing. I'm going to continue getting singing lessons. And then they get to the great white way and they can't find jobs because they're only a one a one threat or a single threat.

[17:17] Alan Seales: Yeah. Right. No, I agree with you. Yeah. So that's a good choice. It obviously obviously worked out for you. So the podcast musical. Yeah. Leading Love. You are the badass maid, Lali. It's what an interesting time. OK, so we recorded this as part of the recording process, the producing team. And so we recorded this entirely in quarantine. And so we shipped you a mic and oh, God, talk us through when you open up this box, you're like, oh, here's a mic. What's happening next? Like what was going through your mind? Because this is not normal, Vio. This is not normal acting. This is not normal anything right now.

[18:04] Rebecca Naomi Jones: Yeah. Well, I kind of I honestly just felt sort of excited because I knew that I I knew that all of this was sort of new frontier and that I wasn't expected to have a master, a mastery of like any of what we were doing. So that that always feels so freeing. I think I think when I'm when I'm not the pro in a situation and I can sort of just like ask questions and have someone guide me through it, you know, like I feel like we spent a nice chunk of time before being able to record almost every session with like you talking me through what buttons to press and how to actually get the thing set up. Yeah. I mean, that's that is how I felt. I was excited that I was being shipped the gear to work with, which is always fun to explore with new toys.

And yeah, I just felt sort of free because it felt like I didn't have the responsibility of having to know any of that. I just had to show up and do my best. It's it was it was a lot of fun for me and a big learning experience.

[19:21] Alan Seales: And you were one of many that in several projects that were like, all right, we need to build our sound studio because there's too much echo in the room you're in. So I remember you were doing your yelling lines under a blanket. So you've got your computer and the microphone under a blanket and like your boyfriend sent us a picture he took of you yelling under a blanket into a microphone. And it was problematic. It still didn't really work. We had to do it again.

[19:49] Rebecca Naomi Jones: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It was so much fun. But I mean, Bleeding Love, it's an original radio play podcast musical. It's one of the first of its kind here. I mean, the team has been around for a while. This came together like four years ago, I think, is when you and Annie Golden and Mark Kudisch and Sarah Stiles, Taylor Trench, Tony Vincent, all of you recorded the demo music years ago. But then, you know, it's a story about a world where you can't go outside because it's too dangerous, which sounds familiar, right? Like this, this is so apropos for right now in our current worldwide situation that, you know, have the brilliant Harris Duran, the lyricist, director and actually editor of the audio as well.

He came to the Broadway Podcast Network and he said, you know, this is something great. We got to do this. And we were immediately like, oh, hell yeah, this is amazing. And it turned out to be this thing that I couldn't have even imagined. It's this amazing story with amazing music. And then all of the original demo cast signed back on to do the dialogue for all of this. And yeah, we shipped everyone everything. We recorded everything in quarantine and it turned out beautiful. Like, what did you imagine? Did you imagine it was going to be like this?

[21:12] Rebecca Naomi Jones: Honestly, no. It turned out so well. I have said on other interviews that I feel like the deliciousness of it is how theatrical it is. And it's just like the music comes alive in the setting. And I don't know, there is actually something so suited to just having this be an audio play. It really works. It's shocking. It's really lush and full. And I think because it's so theatrical, it really works, you know, as an oral experience only.

[21:52] Alan Seales: It does. It's very theatrical. That was a very good way of putting it. Like, there's lots of sound effects. There's lots of ambience. And I forget what country it's coming from. I believe it's Belgium. But we've been getting fan art.

[22:02] Rebecca Naomi Jones: Wow. Oh, yes, I've seen some of it.

[22:09] Alan Seales: Yeah. So just like I'll put in air quotes, our regular show, there's people getting fan art online and on Instagram and sending it into us. And it's been just absolutely beautiful. And it's speaking, because the story is so similar now to real life. It's speaking to people, I think, in a way that maybe it might not have caught on in another, you know, even six months ago.

[22:27] Rebecca Naomi Jones: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Like when you listen to it back again, you know, I guess sort of what was going through your head and what were you feeling listening to it?

[22:34] Alan Seales: I was, well, again, I was really just honestly just impressed with the package. I loved that. I don't know whose decision this was, if it was Harris's or if it was you guys or what. But I loved how the narration parts were used specifically for the podcast. Like, you know, I think some of the script was shifted around such that there was some more narration and stuff that would have been stage direction was Markudish. Brilliant, brilliant voice. So brilliant. I mean, first of all, this voice is just so good. It's so funny. It's so captivating. It's sort of like mischievous and a little bit dark and a little bit scary. But it really it's I think those stage directions really are those, you know, those.

[23:27] Rebecca Naomi Jones: Those voiceover narrations, they really, I think, help so much to set the scene and set the mood. And so I think that really adds to the experience, because when you're listening to it, it's like, okay, I know where I am, how I'm supposed to feel. I know exactly what mood I'm supposed to get ready for here. And yeah, just, I think it manages to be sort of cheeky and, and sort of, I don't know, and sort of surprise you in different ways that you don't expect.

[23:58] Alan Seales: It is surprising. And, you know, you get to reunite with Tony Vincent.

[24:04] Rebecca Naomi Jones: Yeah.

[24:05] Alan Seales: You know, virtually, because the two of you were in American Idiot together.

[24:09] Rebecca Naomi Jones: Yes, we were. We were. Yeah. And it's, and that was such a special time, too. So it's very, very special whenever I get to reunite with anybody from that time. Yeah, we were, you know, this, this was actually 10 years, 10 years from when we did American Idiot on Broadway. And so we did a little, like, reunion Zoom song thing. But it was really nice to spend a little extra time with Tony Vincent, with his voice anyway.

[24:40] Alan Seales: Yeah. Yeah, the recording process was fun, because we did, we did a lot of it, you know, with scene partners, and would record with you playing off of each other. And we had video components going so you could see each other face to face, because it's so much easier to play off of somebody when you can see how they're listening to you.

[24:57] Rebecca Naomi Jones: Much easier, yeah.

[24:58] Alan Seales: But then we went back and did a couple, you know, we did some one-off lines, like a lot of it was just, you know, in the wild, just give us three takes of this line, and we're going to use the best line and throw it all together again. Harris, the way he edited it together, just the editing is brilliant. So I applaud, I applaud you for the performance. I applaud the rest of the cast. The music is brilliant. Anyway, shameless plug, bpn.fm slash bleeding love. Yeah. Switching over to TV and film, of course, you had Passing Strange. That was your, was that your first TV film debut?

[25:26] Rebecca Naomi Jones: No, I don't think so. I feel like, well, maybe I'm wrong. I feel like the first thing I did was during Passing Strange. So yes, that's right. The first thing I did was, I think, when we were still doing Passing Strange. I'm pretty sure is when I did my first ever TV thing, which was an episode of Fringe.

[25:54] Alan Seales: Yeah, that show. I love that. I love that show. I still do. I used to watch it.

[25:59] Rebecca Naomi Jones: Wow. Well, I think I was on the third season and I was, I was, I was a guest star. And I had a, oh my god, I had I, the beginning of the episode was me pushing my baby in a stroller through Grand Central Station. And then I got pushed into the subway tracks.

[26:21] Alan Seales: What about the baby?

[26:24] Rebecca Naomi Jones: The baby was okay. It was like, I was singing a lullaby in the opening. And then, and then like, I was looking for the train, you know, when you like sort of lean into the track, see if the train's coming. And I guess when I was leaning, I met my death. Yeah, I think that was my first ever TV thing. I also at some point, at some point in that same era, I was on an episode of the new like, the re-up version of The Electric Company, which was very fun.

[26:55] Alan Seales: With Chris Sullivan, right? Shockwave?

[26:58] Rebecca Naomi Jones: Yes. I mean, he and I did not do we, I don't think we did anything together at the time. But, but yeah, that was really, really fun experience. But yeah, then the Passing Strange movie was yeah, at the end of our Passing Strange time.

[27:13] Alan Seales: And then you were also in The Big Thick, which is a small film that got tons and tons of attention. Was that, was that sort of, what was that new experience for you? The experience of like, getting a lot of attention? You know, because coming out of Broadway, you've got the stage door and like right there on that block, you're like kind of mobbed. But then the great thing about Broadway in New York is you're around the corner and you just blend in the rest of the crowd. You can still be, you know, still go to Starbucks and get a coffee. But like when you start to get recognized for TV and film, your life changes.

[27:45] Rebecca Naomi Jones: Yeah, it's a funny thing. I mean, I definitely still have not reached the point where any of that is bigger than the stage stuff for me. But it is, it is really interesting the things that people recognize you for. Like I will, I have randomly gotten, I've had so many random people on the street say to me like, Oh, hey, I loved you in High Maintenance, like randomly High Maintenance, this character that I played in High Maintenance. I've only been in two episodes of it, but like that's gotten a lot of attention. And this movie that I did last year for Netflix, Gina Rodriguez movie, Someone Great, which was, it was only on Netflix, you know, but for some reason, that's like really popular with young people.

So like at the stage door for Oklahoma, for example, so many people talk about Someone Great. And yeah, it's a trip for sure. It's exciting, actually, to be like a theater nerd and to have, you know, have people all over the place see your work on the screen. It's thrilling, especially because for somebody who's been doing theater for so long, for me, working in TV and film in the last five or six years or so doing more and more TV and film has become so exciting for me, not only because it's, it's exciting to, to just like get to get to do new things and do more things. It's exciting because it's a different kind of challenge. You know, I mean, it is, obviously, like, the work is still the work.

It's still about talking and listening and being honest. But, but you know, it is, it's such a different medium. And it's so, it's so great to have that different challenge. I mean, in theater, you get to have all this rehearsal time, you spend all this time together, and it's constantly sort of like a navigation together. And TV and film is just so much alone time. You know, the prep work is mostly on your own. And then you have like this specific bit of time to try and get, you know, this amount of takes and hopefully or hopefully, you know, hopefully there's something that you will see later that, that the director and editor have cut together that makes you feel proud of your work, but you, you know, you have less sort of onus over it all.

[31:11] Rebecca Naomi Jones: It was, that's reminds me of a conversation I had the other day with Heather Headley, I was talking to Heather Headley and Norman Buckley, who was in and directed, well, Heather was in it, Norman directed Sweet Magnolias, which is now on Netflix. And great show, by the way, go out and see it if you haven't. And, and what Heather, you know, coming from the Broadway scene, you know, she originated Nala in Lion King, and has done many other things. She was, she said the best advice someone gave her about moving to TV was that like on theater, on stage, you're the Coke bottle that someone shakes up, and then you just let it go for the audience. And then, and then on TV and film, you're the same Coke bottle that shake it up, and you got to hold it in.

Yeah, you got to, you got to use that energy, but make it real, real, real small. And while at the same time, Norman kind of added to that saying, you know, as the director, when we say, that was great, we got it, you got to trust we got it.

[31:14] Rebecca Naomi Jones: You know, like, you got to move on, you got schedule, you got budget, so.

[31:18] Alan Seales: Yeah, that's right.

[31:26] Alan Seales: That's right. It's a good lesson in sort of trusting, trusting yourself and trusting other people. And yeah, yeah.

[31:31] Rebecca Naomi Jones: Yeah, yeah. So, TV, film, much different. Do you have a, do you have a favorite of like, TV or film? Well, first of all, okay, first question, then, do you have a favorite film that you've worked on? And then my original question was going to be, do you prefer stage or, or screen?

[31:42] Rebecca Naomi Jones: Hmm, favorite film that I have worked on? Um, well, I actually really enjoyed, I did this really weird, God, I've done some weird things. Like I, there's this, um, there's this movie that I did, but it was so fun. Um, about, um, the, about the, the real life terror, which is like someone, um, spying on you through your, like your devices, you know, the movie is called Radder. It's about, um, it's about someone like hacking into your computer camera and phone camera and spying on you. It's just a thriller and pretty terrifying, but the experience was really, really fun. Um, but I'd say like one of the, one of the experiences that I had that was, I mean, honestly, the big six was also really great. Um, but I guess in terms of films, probably the most fun I had was this, um, this movie I did a couple of years ago called, um, most likely to murder.

[32:42] Rebecca Naomi Jones: That's the part of what you don't want in high school.

[32:46] Rebecca Naomi Jones: I know it was, it's such a silly movie, but, um, it was a really, really fun thing to shoot. I played this very annoying, um, Long Island pregnant woman. Uh, and it was just, it was a blast. It was a lot of comedians on the set and, um, and that was, that was a good fun time. But actually the most fun I've had, um, with on-camera work in general is I was on, I was a, um, heavily recurring character on the second season of, um, sex and drugs and rock and roll that Dennis Leary show that used to be on FX. And I mean, it, it's, it is talk about silliness. I mean, such a silly, silly show, but boy, it was a fun time. Everybody was so nice top down and it just was like, I got to play like a rock singing Williamsburg. I mean, you know, it was just like pure fun. It was, it was, it was, that was a really good time.

[33:43] Rebecca Naomi Jones: When, when the, Oh, sorry. So before I go to the next question then, yeah. So, um, do you prefer stage or screen? Well, I mean, stage is obviously my home base. I have done so much theater off Broadway on Broadway. Um, and, and it's just, it's definitely where I feel most at home. I love rehearsal more than anything. I have said a lot of times that I feel like if I could just sort of rehearse forever and perform, like really occasionally, I'd probably be happier and better off and kinder to myself. Um, but I, I really love rehearsal and I really love being with the same group of people for like a large chunk of time, working on a thing, figuring it out and playing dress up and getting to know each other.

And, um, that, that to me is what makes theater the best. Um, and of course now that we're in quarantine, I'm also missing the aspect of not really performing, but being in a room with strangers, different strangers every day and having an experience that we all share. Um, you know, that's, that's really, really special. Um, so I would say for the most part, I prefer theater, but, but I have to admit, like in the last few years, I have just been more excited to get more into film and TV. I think part of it is because I.

[35:41] Rebecca Naomi Jones: Oh, yeah. Yeah. And well, there's so much great content coming out now that obviously in TV and film, it takes like months or years to create. So yes, everything that was being worked on pre-quarantine is coming out now. So I wonder if there's going to be this kind of bubble of content that we're going to see maybe six months to a year from now or more that was all created and or written at least in quarantine that has a lot of these motifs in it. You know, I think that I actually got into this with, I think it was Mark Kudish. I talked to him. We were like, things are going to start to be produced and written and everything completely in quarantine. And you're going to have complete productions where you're just your entire production is people like with stuff on the back wall and you're going to be dressed up.

You're going to be, you know, give me, okay, you are a dragon. So we're going to mail you a couple of things and you're going to dress up and pretend there's fire on my wall. Right. I wonder how much of this is going to start coming out pretty soon. So I think we're going to start seeing more of it on a professional level. I think you're right. I think you're right. I think like these first, the first couple of weeks into the first couple of months of this quarantine, it's been a little bit like, well, we're going to just do this thing for now to sort of keep our engines going and stuff. But I think you're absolutely right. It feels like the whole event of the quarantine is going to go on longer than we all might want to admit.

And so I think we're going to have to find ways to get creative and make it work and turn these projects we're doing into real professional things somehow. Well, we are. I mean, look at Bleeding Love, right? Right. I mean, it's already happened in this form and then audio only and radio plays are much easier. But, you know, TV, gosh, there was something the other day that I saw that is a big press release because there was a studio that just opened in Midtown Manhattan that's like 34,000 square feet or something. So you can bring an entire crew in and do production while everybody's still maintaining six feet social distancing. I was like, this is insane. I mean, I see where it's going, but like, wow, if we're going to be able to start filming everything where all the actors are with CGI are placed closer together because you have to film six feet apart or whatever. I mean, it's going to be kind of crazy. It's going to be so crazy.

[38:07] Alan Seales: You said something a second ago that I wanted to go back to that you said, if you could only rehearse all the time and not perform, you wouldn't be... I forget what you said. You either said you wouldn't be so hard on yourself or you would be easier on yourself. What did you mean by that?

[38:20] Rebecca Naomi Jones: Yeah. Yeah. Yes. I just think that I, you know, back to the anxiety stuff. I just, it's really easy for me in performance to sort of get through that initial phase in previews and, you know, performances of like sort of figuring out the map for the character and sort of navigating through, you know, point A to point B to point C and all of that and figuring out like, yeah, the map for myself of like how I get from this part of this character to this other, you know, just in terms of the personal journey of the character. And, you know, while of course maintaining like the fact that it's not all about me and what the, you know, how that character's journey fits into the thing as a whole and all of that.

I feel like once I get through that initial phase of like hating myself, that you're feeling like I'll never figure it out. And then like eventually sort of, obviously with the director's help and the other actors help and listening and all that, you know, finding my sort of map for myself that I can always follow, even though I know that it's going to be different from night to night and how I will process things will be different. Like once I get through that like journey, which is always epic anyway, then I, you know, I feel like I need something else to sort of freak out about. So then I'll just start picking at myself, you know, and it doesn't always happen. And it's sometimes I can leave myself alone and all of that.

But the more I'm in a long running show, I think the easier it is for me to eventually just sort of like start, you know, picking at myself and just like self-loathing and all that nonsense. So I think that's why, you know, in rehearsal it all feels possible and all feels ahead of you. Whereas once I'm in performance, it feels a little bit like a little death because it's like, well, there's another one I failed at and this is only ending, you know, it's just so much drama. But it's normal. It is. It's normal. And I think everybody feels that way to an extent, not everybody, but a lot of people, especially performers, which is why, you know, we're attracted to this kind of business in the first place.

Like we talked about in the beginning, it's the validation, right? Like you get that, you get that ovation. You don't get the ovation one night and he's like, what did I do differently? Or was it me? Probably me. Did I cause the show to suck? But while at the same time, you're on a Broadway stage with Mary Testa and amazing, amazing actors. You know, like Ali Stroker goes out and wins the Tony for her. Like you're on stage with these performers that are your equals and oh gosh, I mean, I know I'm preaching to the choir, but sometimes I encourage you personally just to step back and, you know, have perspective because.

[41:37] Rebecca Naomi Jones: Totally. Well, yeah, it's always a balance. I mean, I definitely have so many of those moments. I mean, it's only, you know, I was actually saying this the other day that like, it's weird how like in retrospect, I just am sort of now I'm beating myself up for having wasted so much time feeling anxious and all that stuff, you know, because of course, on the other side of that, there are all the highs and all the thrills and the highs are so high. And of course, like during, I also, of course, I'm balancing all that anxiety with all of the realization of how fortunate I am and how excited I am and how much of a joy it is to be on that stage and sharing with all these people and, you know, in conversation with people and presenting a version of a classic story in a way that relates to people in a way that they didn't know.

They didn't know that they could relate to this story and what that version of that story meant to them and how it brought questions up for them. And, you know, all of that is like the best part of being an actor and especially a theater actor. It's like you get to actually come away with dialogue with people about things that we need to really address. And that's constant, you know, there's so much trouble in this world and it's such a beautiful thing when we can connect and try and navigate our way through it together. But yeah, so I do try my best to keep perspective. It's just sometimes my little dark brain will try and taint the party. I call it my dark passenger, like Dexter.

[43:20] Alan Seales: That's so good. That's so good. Dark passenger, yep. Dark passenger just has to get some face time every now and then. Yeah, that's right. You're a little saboteur. It'll be good.

[43:31] Rebecca Naomi Jones: So I have three standard closing questions that I ask everybody to wrap up every episode. And the first one here is what motivates you?

[43:50] Rebecca Naomi Jones: I am motivated by doing my best at all times.

[44:01] Alan Seales: I like that. Yeah. I just always want to keep, I just want to strive to better myself.

[44:06] Alan Seales: Good. Okay. Second question, what advice would you give to your younger self and younger people listening now starting out down a similar path?

[44:14] Rebecca Naomi Jones: Give yourself grace, give yourself patience, be a full human. It's okay if you're not only defined by your work and your success or what you deem successful or what you think is successful. Being a good person, listening to other people, being curious. Those are all the best things you can do for yourself as a human and for yourself as a performer.

[44:38] Alan Seales: Wonderful. Oh, I like that a lot too. Okay. Last question. Hardest one. If you could only see one show for the rest of your life, but you can see it as many times as you want, what would you see?

[44:49] Rebecca Naomi Jones: Oh, that is so tough. Wow. Wow. Oh, that is so, so tough. I'm going to have to say without me being in it, preferably Passing Strange.

[45:07] Alan Seales: Oh, okay. I'll take it. All right. And so where can we find you on social media?

[45:15] Rebecca Naomi Jones: I am on Instagram as one Rebecca Jones. That's O-N-E-R-E-B-E-C-C-A-J-O-N-E-S. Technically I'm on Twitter, but I'm never on there. My name is Rebecca Zername. It's spelled like R-E-B-E-C-C-A-S-E-R-N-A-M-E. Zername. Well, because if you have the H in there, it's like Rebecca Scherning. So there's no H. And then I'm also technically on Facebook, but I'm also never on there. I think I'm just on there as Rebecca Naomi Jones. I'm really bad at Facebook. I come on Facebook really occasionally because my mother is like, honey, a lot of people wrote on your wall about this thing. You should respond.

[46:03] Alan Seales: Yeah. I still use Facebook. You talk to my parents too. So I tell you.

[46:12] Rebecca Naomi Jones: And of course, Bleeding Love, we can find you. So visit bpn.fm slash bleeding love or search for Bleeding Love everywhere you listen to podcasts. And you can find Rebecca as Lolly the badass. And you are a badass in that show. It is amazing.

[46:22] Alan Seales: Yep. You can get more of me at the theaterpodcast.com. Show your support at the theaterpodcast.com slash Patreon. I'm on Instagram and Twitter at theater underscore podcast. Please leave a rating and review wherever you are listening to this now. This is edited by Matthew Hendershot. And thank you to Jukebox the Ghost for the intro and outro music and Rebecca Naomi Jones. Thank you so much. This has been so fun.

[46:43] Rebecca Naomi Jones: Yes, it has. Thank you. Take a deep breath, make the world a little colorful.