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[0:00] Joel Crump: Hey you guys, today I am here with the cast of Wine in the Wilderness. Thank you all so much for joining me for another episode of Broadway Time at Carmine's. I recently saw Wine in the Wilderness and it completely blew me away. This powerful revival of Alice Childress's rarely seen gem is a New York Times critic's pick. And for a good reason. Set during the 1964 Harlem riot, it's urgent, poetic, and deeply human. The production is directed by the legendary LaChanze, a Tony Award-winning icon making her New York City directorial debut. Her work behind the scenes is just as impactful as it is on stage, and its staging proves it. It quickly became one of my favorite theatrical experiences of the year. So I invited the cast to join me here at Carmine's to dive deep into the work, the process, and what makes this piece so special. So without further ado, let's get on to this very special episode of Broadway Time at Carmine's.

[0:53] Brooks Brantly: Uh my name is Brooks Brantly. I play the role of Sunny Man.

[0:55] Grantham Coleman: Grandpa Coleman, I play Bill.

[0:59] Olivia Washington: Olivia Washington, I play Tommy.

[1:02] Lakisha May: Lakisha May, and I play Cynthia.

[1:04] Milton Craig Nealy: Milton Craig Nealy and I play Old Timer.

[1:07] Joel Crump: So you guys opened a few weeks ago. What has it been like finally doing the show and being in the world of Wine in the Wilderness?

[1:20] Grantham Coleman: It's been fun. It's been fun. It's been uh, you know, after opening, everyone thinks that, you know, when the show opens, that that's the finished product, but that's when things start to deepen. We're starting to find new discoveries and it's become a well-oiled machine, but at the same time we're learning new things every night. It's a live show.

[1:35] Brooks Brantly: Yeah. You know, the stress of press and all that stuff before we open for me is always something that I find myself trying to figure out what the audience is doing, and then like after we're open, I kind of just relax to hang with my family.

[1:49] Grantham Coleman: Yeah. And by process, I've realized that like just more is coming out, and my responses to everyone and my reactions, just like, oh yeah, there's no more consideration of like, oh, you know, I just don't want to like get step on that thing or step on that thing. I feel like it's just it's free.

[2:06] Lakisha May: Yeah. Growth, I guess, is the exciting portion that happens. It just with more time you discover more things, or you can if you're lucky enough to be with some of your talented people. Um, so I think that's been really exciting post-opening.

[2:22] Grantham Coleman: It all feels like it's happening so fast.

[2:25] Olivia Washington: I know, yeah.

[2:26] Grantham Coleman: I know.

[2:27] Lakisha May: Yeah, I would say ditto to what everybody said, growth and discovery and the love of it. And then also something I discovered yesterday is that I could just show up as me a little bit, like bring um we had drinks after the show with some folks who just graduated from Yale and FA acting, and I was talking about this, and they said, Well, you had your already, like where you start from your already. And I was like, I like that. And so, like, yesterday I was in a weird mood, and I was like, Okay, we'll be able to have a little little spice. And so at post-opening, you can kind of bring that type of energy as well.

[3:02] Brooks Brantly: Love that, you know.

[3:03] Grantham Coleman: Absolutely.

[3:04] Milton Craig Nealy: I I totally agree with all that has been said. For me, uh, we have a uh uh uh a phrase that we say the show is frozen, yeah. Uh uh meaning, you know, after we open, that's it, no more rehearsals, no more, you know, and and you can grow. You can you can now, okay. I know this is not going to, you know, I go stage left here. I'm gonna always go stage left, and now I can sit in my and grow in that space, and so that's when I love it. When it means we're open, we're off and running.

[3:37] Joel Crump: Yeah, Milton, I feel like we have a legend sitting with us right now.

[3:41] Grantham Coleman: Absolutely.

[3:42] Milton Craig Nealy: I said that to me was you a legend aka old. But you're in the original cast of Dreamgirls. It's a lot on Broadway. Tell me, you know, having all that experience, how much of it did you bring to Wine in the Wilderness?

[3:56] Milton Craig Nealy: All of it. Um, I um it's funny with uh uh LaChanze the director. We were talking, I think that first couple of days of rehearsal, and I didn't realize that I've been here in New York since 1979, and this is the first straight play that I've done. I've always done musicals. I've done straight plays in other cities, but but in New York where I live and have been here forever, this is the first straight play that I've done in all these years. And I never I never thought about that until we were talking. It's like, what I don't have to warm up. I don't have to scratch.

[4:27] Grantham Coleman: Right.

[4:27] Milton Craig Nealy: I don't have to do, you know, I don't have to do any of that. So it's that's it's very interesting, yeah. That that uh I feel kind of young in that sense.

[4:42] Grantham Coleman: I love that, yeah.

[4:44] Milton Craig Nealy: Absolutely. Something new, yeah. And working with LaChanze, I have to imagine, especially you guys obviously go back and also doing Alice Childress's work. Can you talk to me about that?

[4:52] Milton Craig Nealy: Absolutely. Um first working with uh with LaChanze. I I uh these kids have heard this story a million times, but I remember uh her as a little baby uh coming into I was on a a road company of Dreamgirls in 19 and uh and one of the actresses left, and this little baby girl came in uh and it was LaChanze and replaced her, and that's I I met her then. Uh and I've always known her as a hard worker and uh and uh she was in the ensemble at that time and and worked her way up to covering one of the principals, Dina, uh in the dreams, you know, she was the lead, and uh and since then I've known her as a performer and then later as a producer, and now I just I feel like the proud papa. Uh my little baby is now a director.

[5:46] Joel Crump: Yeah, I love it.

[5:47] Milton Craig Nealy: Yeah.

[5:48] Joel Crump: Well, let's eat, shall we?

[5:56] Grantham Coleman: Grantum, you went to Juilliard. Talk to me about what you learned at Juilliard and how that impacted what you've done in Wine in the Wilderness in your career in general.

[6:05] Grantham Coleman: Um it was cool, it was a good school, you know. I don't I don't necessarily think the school you go to matters. I think it's what you put into it and what you get out of it. And I went to school after going to performing arts high school. So it was one conservatory atmosphere into another one. So I kind of was there to like grind and there to kind of be the best and get all this stuff, and they're like, whoa, slow down. Like, you know, you're here to like be in a safe space and learn and make mistakes. And I was like, nah, I don't want to make mistakes. I want to get it right. So I learned a lot of like unlearning things about like there's no right, there's no wrong, there's only a spectrum of which choices you can make, and you might be more in tune with people if you make this choice versus like making a solo independent actor choice.

So I learned a lot from school in terms of how to be a better collaborator. Because you're in a small group of people, 18 going in, 18 coming out, and you spend all day with them, all night with them, and you have relationships with them, and then you get out of school, and now you don't have that close connection, so it kind of kept us like on track to still be family after school as we all go throughout our careers. Some people are still in the arts, some people have moved on to other things, but it kind of gave me a home base to like chase the dream and realize that it's still a dream.

[7:25] Joel Crump: Yeah. What has it been like collaborating with this cast specifically? What has that been like?

[7:28] Grantham Coleman: It's alright.

[7:31] Grantham Coleman: The honor of his life.

[7:40] Grantham Coleman: And then you got people like Brooks who like, you know, I'm just happy this brother is now my best friend.

[7:46] Brooks Brantly: Oh.

[7:50] Grantham Coleman: Oh come on.

[7:54] Brooks Brantly: I love it.

[7:55] Joel Crump: I love it.

[8:01] Joel Crump: Olivia. First of all, congratulations on your Lucy Lortel nomination. What has it been like to to get that recognition? And also, you know, in general, playing Tommy, what has that been like?

[8:13] Olivia Washington: You know, it's all been a bit surreal, and um I feel so honored and it to find that people connect with what you're doing is really humbling and exciting and makes you want to work harder to keep honest and and to keep growing and building as an artist. Um I think taking this job is uh you know, one of the easiest decisions I've ever made because the challenge of bringing her to life was something that felt so daunting and it scared me a bit. And whenever something scared me, I learned that in school. If I have a visceral fear response to something, it tends to tell me that I need to do it. Um, as opposed to if I read something, I'm like, Oh, I know how to do that. I shouldn't do that.

[9:06] Grantham Coleman: Yeah.

[9:08] Olivia Washington: Um, so it was very exciting. I mean, this has just been the best experience, and I could have never have imagined any sort of outcome that we're in right now. So very happy, very happy.

[9:17] Joel Crump: Absolutely. You've done some fun television and film work. What are the differences between stage acting versus camera acting?

[9:24] Olivia Washington: Hmm. You know, this might have been like a piece of advice that that I got from my parents when I was in school trying to decide if I wanted to stay in my studio or move to a studio that focused on film and television. And both of them separately and together were saying, you know, it's about proximity. If a camera's in your face, you don't have to project. If you're on stage and there are people, there are thousands of people, you have to project. So that kind of like resonated with me in terms of the difference. And I love both because plays and film, you get the entire story. Right. You get the beginning, middle, and end. So I I enjoy both mediums and both challenges that they both present.

[10:06] Joel Crump: Absolutely. Yes. Lakeisha, you've had a really cool past couple of years from doing Skeleton Crew and Jaws African Hair Reading, Dirty Laundry. Talk to me about these past couple of years and all of that leading up to Wine in the Wilderness.

[10:18] Lakisha May: Yeah, um, it's been thrilling. You know, I I actually left New York and moved to LA right before the pandemic in like 2018. I was there for almost a year and a half. Pandemic brought me back, and this resurgence of theater has been just like, okay, a blessing. This is great. Um, I actually booked Skeleton Crew doing the workshop of Jaws. And I knew Jocelyn is an old friend. We've done a show right before I went to LA. And um, so it's really great to have the opportunity to be a part of that world premiere production. And Jocelyn is such a genius when it comes to comedy. We actually met doing Everybody um at the Signature Theater, and she played Usher slash God. And the way we started, we were in the audience.

The actors were in the audience, and she was up there, and so I got a chance to like witness her brilliance every single night. Um, but yeah, so to answer your question, I guess more directly, it's just been really fantastic to explore all the different theaters um here lately. Broadway, off Broadway, the WP Theater doing Dirty Laundry was like a ton of fun, totally opposite from what I'm doing that month. Because Dirty Laundry, I was crying through three fourths of the play, because it's about one of your parents dying, your mother specifically, and I'm really close to my mom, as some of y'all know. And so um to now be working on this, and I was a half Jewish girl, and the play was written by like a Jewish woman, and I had to figure out the gap between anyway, it was just wild.

It was wild. And so to now be doing a play that is with LaChanze number one, and number two with this incredible cast, and written by Alice Childress is just I couldn't ask for anything better. It's like pinched me.

[12:15] Brooks Brantly: So Brooks, you play Sonny Man at the show.

[12:18] Brooks Brantly: Yes.

[12:18] Brooks Brantly: And you had me laughing the entire time on opening when I saw this show. I mean, talk to me about bringing that comedy to a show like Wine in the Wilderness. I'm sure it's tricky in moments.

[12:26] Brooks Brantly: It's tricky in moments. I like it. Well, it's especially tricky in the space. Um, in Classic Stage they have a three-quarter thrust setting. And this is an extreme thrust. So the audience is really wrapped around you. So I have a lot of fun sort of being a technician in a way, trying to figure out sometimes the difference between someone laughing and not laughing at your line is, oh, I have to take two steps first and then turn my shoulders and then say the line.

[12:54] Brooks Brantly: There you go. Right. And so, um, just even having the role of Sonny Man, it's somebody I can definitely relate to. I'm someone who likes to offer a little bit of levity during tense situations. Um, we were joking earlier about how you can't ask, I can't give you a straight answer. I gotta give you some a little. Um, so that's just my sense of humor. Um, but yeah, it was fun stepping into those shoes every single night and making people laugh. It's something I like to do and just as a person in general. Um, yeah, fun.

[13:24] Joel Crump: I love it. I mean, you guys are clearly a family. You guys all could talk about this. What has it been like creating this group and having that chemistry that you guys obviously have?

[13:33] Grantham Coleman: Well see, sometimes we can't even take credit for that. That's LaChanze, she put us all together and believed in us and made us kind of a family before we knew we were one. And it's just been really enjoyable. I mean, we're so intimate and we're together, and it's such a fast show. Like once you start, you can't stop.

[13:55] Grantham Coleman: Yeah. And we, and everybody's needed. So we're, I think it's just the energy and what the attitudes of everybody really wanting to participate and bring their best. And also, we're, it's such a small space. Sorry to, but we're so in the dressing room area, we're all, I mean, we're not all in the same dressing room. We're, we can hear it. It's just a curtain. It's just the curtains partitioning off. So when Brooks says something, the girls hear, you know, when we talk, so it's like it really is. I, it's cliché to say, but one big happy family. I mean, from the time we get into the theater until we're on stage. And then again, after we, you know, I look for Grantham's joke to bring me out of my, you know, that ending.

[14:46] Milton Craig Nealy: Right. Um, and uh, so yeah, it really is. It really is. And, and, and uh, go ahead, you finish. I jumped in on you.

[14:52] Brooks Brantly: Oh, that was, that's bad. What's causing the most mayhem?

[15:00] Grantham Coleman: Why are you looking at me?

[15:03] Brooks Brantly: Why are you looking at it? Someone's gotta be blamed and also I, and I'm not gonna do something.

[15:11] Grantham Coleman: Okay, okay. No, it's not mayhem.

[15:14] Brooks Brantly: No.

[15:14] Grantham Coleman: Chaos.

[15:16] Brooks Brantly: Chaos is the word.

[15:18] Grantham Coleman: I like that. Mischievous. But also sometimes it's not even really like, like he had a birthday quite recently. That's it. And I didn't know if it was a secret or not that we were going to dinner that evening. So I was like, Lakisha, should I play in this? Yeah, yeah, go ahead, do it. I was like, all right, cool, got the reservation, awesome. I see Brooks at the theater that day. Uh huh. It's like, hey, what are you doing after the show tonight?

[15:43] Brooks Brantly: What did you say?

[15:43] Grantham Coleman: I was like, uh, you know, I'm gonna be around, I'm gonna hang around a little bit, maybe. Because it was because I already heard that he was planning it, so it was weird for me to hear the planner ask me about the planning.

[15:55] Brooks Brantly: What do you do?

[15:55] Grantham Coleman: Yeah, like I'm like, I don't know. Is it off? But then it doubled down in weirdness because I was like, you obviously don't know this. Lakisha, I don't think he knows. Does he know? Is he gonna leave? And I said, uh, he knows.

[16:08] Lakisha May: Both of y'all are pretending all that yourself.

[16:14] Grantham Coleman: Both living alive.

[16:15] Brooks Brantly: Right. It wasn't out of kindness, so I'm pretending for him, and he's pretending for me.

[16:23] Lakisha May: Yeah, the care.

[16:26] Grantham Coleman: Absolutely. What if you mention LaChanze? I mean, was there nervousness going to have her as a director? It's obviously her first time in New York directing. And I remember my first time interviewing LaChanze. I was like, in the corner, like about to pass out. I was like, oh my god, this is royalty, and I'm gonna think I'm gonna have the chance to talk to her. What was it like for you guys as the actors and she stepping into the directing role?

[16:49] Olivia Washington: For me, it was nothing. That's my baby. Right. She was like a baby girl. So I, as I said earlier, I, you know, I'm just like, look at my baby, she's directing. I, it was just wonderful to watch her. It definitely could be intimidating. It can definitely be intimidating. She's extremely talented in so many different areas. So, and as an actress admiring another actress who's directing you, it could be a bit like, oh my god, is she gonna think I'm bad? Oh, I'm gonna be, I have to be bad today. Oh no, she thinks she doesn't trust me. Like so, um, but it quickly that was dispelled just by the energy that she brought into the room every day.

[17:30] Olivia Washington: And we all talk about it in the way she asked about how we were. Yeah, she would check in with us every single rehearsal, like, how are you showing up today? You know. Um, and yeah, she created the space for us to play and feel like we could make mistakes and stumble. Because that's what you have to do in the process. You know, they say the fool always precedes the master. So you gotta be, you gotta be foolish first.

[17:51] Grantham Coleman: Yeah.

[17:52] Olivia Washington: I'm a fool. But we are all right. You know, you have to be to be in this business, I think. You know, you have to be willing to fall on your face.

[18:03] Grantham Coleman: Absolutely.

[18:04] Olivia Washington: Yeah. Uh, and, and get up and brush yourself off and do what you need to do. And in many cases, if you don't fall on your face, you don't find that next thing that you know if you had not fallen, you wouldn't have found.

[18:21] Grantham Coleman: Yeah.

[18:23] Olivia Washington: You're building someone from scratch.

[18:25] Grantham Coleman: Absolutely.

[18:25] Olivia Washington: Like, so you like a little baby. It's like you don't know, you know, you don't have any fitting.

[18:36] Grantham Coleman: So I'm curious, what has Wine in the Wilderness taught you guys? Doing Alice Childress's just wonderful work, what has that taught you?

[18:43] Grantham Coleman: Um, for well this for Wine in the Wilderness, uh specifically has taught me it was a great lesson in um what it means to actually be a person of people. Um, we have two characters in this that uh Grantham and I play that are these proud self-proclaimed revolutionaries who are revolutionaries in theory. And they're very academic in their approach and their philosophies when it comes to that, but when it comes to practice, when it comes to actually seeing the people that they deem that they represent and advocate for, they judge them. And it was just a real process of self-examination. Like I was reading the script and thinking to myself, like, how much of that is in me? How much do I judge? How much do I look at my own people and split people up in categories? You know, you're worthy of this level of success, you're worthy of this level of access. You know, it's uh it was some tough love.

[19:37] Lakisha May: Yeah. Yeah.

[19:39] Grantham Coleman: Uh, yeah, I'd say to double down on what he's saying, thinking about where Bill fits in in terms of revolution and it's a play about revolution, is I've learned from Wine in the Wilderness the kind of artist that I am. Uh, Bill seems very prescriptive. Bill's like, I'm gonna show you what y'all need to do, I'm gonna tell you what you need to do. I'm gonna paint what you need to do, versus Grantham as an artist who hopes to be revolutionary, is I'm gonna reflect who we are. I'm gonna reflect who this person is like Bill has a lot of ugly moments, and my job as the artist is to portray his ugly moments without the judgment that you're talking about, without the cynicism or saying, like, oh well, it shouldn't be this way because he's not that bad of a dude. Where it's like, no, go to the places of darkness so that people can see the light. Like, so I guess I've learned how my artistry is revolutionary.

[20:31] Lakisha May: Yeah.

[20:32] Grantham Coleman: I think I learned a lot about love, like what really is love, and if you truly love someone, if you truly love your people, that means embracing all elements of your people, yourself, even if you might not like it. But to try to pick and choose what aspects and elements you love of someone is not really love. I'm grateful that Miss Childress has given us a piece that reminds us of our complexity, of our layers of the nuances that exist. And as an artist, that's everything. As an actor, as a creator, as a producer, it's important to be reminded of that.

[21:10] Milton Craig Nealy: Yeah. Uh, I, it's the right word is, I think affirmation for me, uh, Milton Craig Nealy, and also for the character that I play, um, Old Timer. Um, I don't know that he, well, I think as we all are all human, he does judge people. But he's the one that's the oldest and has lived the longest and has had, I think, maybe the most turmoil in his life in this piece. And, and so he has learned um to accept people for who they are. He's grateful that these young people have allowed him to come into their space and be a part of it. Uh, which is so horrifying when the thing happens at the end, and you Bill turns and looks at me once when Sonny Man says, you know, uh, you're lying, uh, yeah, let it out.

And that look you give me is like, oh my god, I've destroyed, you know, everything. But on the other side of the token, when uh Tommy first comes in the door, and the relationship that we from that childlike, uh, you, you know, he tells you what the name is and you, you know, with respect, you say Mr. Timer. That's what he said. This is Old Timer, and you, and, and I just, I love it. She's down home. She's like, and as we, and you start talking about your feet and that whole thing, and now I'm like, I love this girl. You know, but before she got there, I'm with the, I'm with that man thing and that testosterone and that, oh, oh yeah, let's talk about these women and oh my first wife and that whole thing. But for Milton, uh, as a person, I, I am very, very much that's why I use the word affirmation. I, I kind of, uh, it affirms that yes, I, I was right about these people.

[23:19] Joel Crump: We heard that it was your birthday today. So we wanted to celebrate you in true Carmine style. So we guys will all sing along with me.

[23:27] Grantham Coleman: Oh my god!

[23:31] All: Happy birthday to you! Happy birthday to you! Happy birthday! Happy birthday! Happy birthday to you!

[23:47] Joel Crump: Wow! Makeup make a wish blow the king. Well, thank you all so much for being here. You guys have one more week to go see this Lucille Lortel-nominated show and to see this amazing cast. Thank you guys so much once again. This has been another episode of Broadway Time at Carmine's.