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[0:00] Speaker 1: Hi, I'm Ariana Grande. Hi, I'm Cynthia Erivo, and you're listening to the Broadway Podcast Network. Visit vpm.fm to discover more. There's a cat over here. There's a cat over there. I'm the one who died. I'm the one who died.

[0:30] Speaker 2: Welcome to the wrong cat died the podcast breakdown of the cat's catastrophe. I'm your host, Mike Abrams, and today's episode is very special. When I learned about the with love now and forever cats for COVID Relief fundraiser, I knew the wrong cat died. Had to be involved. So let me tell you about this fundraiser. The Touring cast of cats national three is reuniting for a very special virtual theatrical event for the Broadway Cares COVID 19 Emergency Assistance Fund, which supports the Actors Fund. This special event will premiere Friday, October 23 at 8pm eastern at broadwaycares.org/cats benefit, and will be available through october 27 so today I have some of the amazing people involved with this, this production to talk about the fundraiser, the cats national three tour, and every other crazy cats question that I'm prepared to ask today. So without further ado, welcome award winning Director Jonathan serulo, who conceived and produced the fundraiser, Broadway choreographer Joanne Hunter, who helped script the fundraiser, and Grammy award winner, Leslie Ellis, who's performing a spectacular version of memory for the event. So welcome to the Ron cat died. And thank you all for joining me.

[1:34] Speaker 3: Thank you. Thank you. Thanks so much for having us. So I'm

[1:38] Speaker 2: very excited to talk about the fundraiser. But before we do, I think we really have to go back a little bit, because everyone who's listened to this podcast knows that all of my history and information, everything I know about cats is the 1998 movie, which is on YouTube, and the 2016 production, which I saw twice, and then just what I read on the internet, nothing else. And so you three are going to bring a perspective that I'm excited for, because the cats national tour three was in the 80s, and it's like this was the first time I believe cats went into a bunch of major cities. So the first thing I really want to hear is, is, what was it like performing cats at that time? When you know the fan reaction like, what? What was it like? What just, how are fans reacting to it? What was it what was it like being on tour? This is still pretty new musical at this point, so let's just jump in with that. To start,

[2:32] Speaker 4: Leslie is right. I will tell you, in speaking with Tom Viola about this, he had this prolific statement that he said, You guys were the Hamilton of your times. And it didn't actually hit me until he said that, and I could equate that, but it really was. And Joanne, I'll let you say the quote that you did in the press release, release. But yeah, it was a, it was a pretty big, pretty big deal.

[2:57] Speaker 5: Yeah, I think you know, Mike, back in the 80s, there were four first class productions of cats in in the United States, and first class, meaning you got paid top tier, basically, now there's barely a first class production even, even with the hit musical going out with all the new contracts. So it was, it was, as Leslie said, it was big deal, I mean, to put cats on your resume, you felt like you made it absolutely it was, it was the show to be a part of, whether you're a dancer who sang or a singer who danced or moved, you know, I mean, everybody wanted to be a part of cats. I do believe that. I mean, I remember the cattle calls they were. I mean, every time a cat's call happened, every six months, they were massive, massive audition

[3:47] Speaker 4: calls. And it was interesting too, with that. Jimmy wall, dance captain, who is part of this event, said, you realize that between New York, Los Angeles and Canada, I didn't realize that they auditioned Canada for this production, they saw well over 1000 people for what 22 roles on stage, and plus the swings and underseas. So by by the time we were cast, they had exhausted quite a lot of auditions with that, and they had to choose the best of the best that they saw appropriate for the show. So I was very honored. So

[4:24] Speaker 2: I did read that there was four tours going on at the same time. Was like, how does that work? Were you, you know, almost like, well, what feels a little like, like you're, you're rumbling a little bit about which, you know, which performances are the best, and which cities you're going to Well,

[4:39] Speaker 3: the first two were, one was in in Los Angeles, entirely. It's a sit down company, right? Maybe, maybe it went to San Francisco for a few weeks beforehand, or something. And the second one was in Boston for, I think it was sitting in Boston. And then we were the first. A touring company that went, you know, did one week spots.

[5:06] Speaker 2: And you, I mean, this, I read that you this is the first time that you went to a lot of major cities. I am a little fascinated by, you know, even calling it the Hamilton at the time, because to me, it seems like now everyone knows, everyone has an opinion on cats, or they love it or hate it, they kind of know what they're getting. But in the 80s, I think a lot of a lot of people probably were, it wasn't as generally accepted as like, what you would go see on Broadway. So how did people was like, what was the reception like? You know, when you were selling out weeks in advance,

[5:35] Speaker 4: it we were sold out. And I remember very specifically going to the theater and seeing lines around the box, you know, around the corner at the box office for people to get tickets to the show. And the producers knew that we were, we were making a lot of money for for the company, and so that's one of the reasons, and we can get into it. We were booked into outdoor theaters where we were playing to 12,000 seats, and we did that, ladies correct me, if I'm wrong, I think we did three outdoor theaters or two, two, is it?

[6:20] Speaker 5: right. I was on vacation that week. That's right.

[6:26] Speaker 4: Bucha told me that who played our Tugger. They they said, No, Bucha, when they were on vacation during that week, I was like, Oh, lucky. You missed the thunderstorms and cicadas flying into our mouths. Yeah,

[6:37] Speaker 3: I had a cicada fly into my mouth during memory.

[6:40] Speaker 4: And Michael, what we're talking about, I

[6:48] Speaker 4: as you know, cicadas only come out once every you know, biblical century. And of course, when we were playing the outdoor theater, they they, whatever they do, come out of their cocoons or whatever. And it was just a cacophony of cicadas, you know, in, you know, and we actually, we actually referenced that in our in our event, which, when you tune in, you'll hear that Cincinnati.

[7:11] Speaker 2: We're just trying to give you the true cats experience.

[7:15] Speaker 3: Yeah, they welcomed us with open arms.

[7:19] Speaker 4: You know, another thing, if I can interject, and I'm quoting what Jimmy walski said, he said, So you realize that this, the team that put this together, had put together, you know, the Broadway company, you know, Stanley Lebowski, music director, Tom Reed, Team Michael Reed, our dance supervisor, David Taylor, our director. And they were, they were descendants of Trevor and Jillian. I'm correct about that. Ladies, right? That

[7:47] Speaker 5: is correct. They put together every company that follows. That's right, that's That's

[7:52] Speaker 4: right, that's right. They put every and so by the time they got to us our audition, they had done it twice already, and they were really quite, you know, set on what they were looking for and how to put that show together. So we were we, were we, we, we were treated very, very well in terms of the the conception of that show, and having it be very, very strong that company, oh, my God, was a very strong company, I will say that,

[8:21] Speaker 3: and also, like we were treated so well, we were just welcomed and and Jonathan and I were we, you know, we talked about the benefit that we did back then we were on the road. And, you know, people let us use conference rooms in the middle of the night after the show and hotels and things for so we could rehearse. And we and when we were in Kansas City, we we had a costume shop that donated all the costumes for for this benefit that we put on this benefit, and we made almost $40,000 which was a lot of money at the time. And you know, the Jonathan and I were on costumes, and so we all kind of just pitched in, you know, and it was to raise money for for AIDS awareness and AIDS research, back in the day when there wasn't much in that regard. So, you know, I mean, everybody just said, Sure, you're doing, we'll donate 22 you know, gold tuxedos. So you can do one singular sensation. You know, it was, it was unbelievable. We never would have been able to do it

[9:27] Speaker 2: without that. Yeah, so I reading up on that. It's amazing to read that in one night raising $40,000 in the late 80s, in

[9:37] Speaker 5: 1987 that's a lot of money for, for something that some majority of Americans really didn't have a grasp on, on the toll it was taking.

[9:49] Speaker 2: So how did, like, what do you remember about that night? How did that the idea come up, and just the reaction from the community for, again, like you said, something that a lot of people didn't know a lot about. What. I

[10:00] Speaker 4: Can I jump in ladies and say, I do. Very clearly, I remember being in the hotel room. We were already nine months on the road, and the news came on, and it was Tom Brokaw, if you remember Tom Brokaw the newscaster. And he said, ladies and you know, he announced that Michael Bennet had just passed away from the HIV AIDS virus. And I shot up at a, at a, you know, just and I tuned in. I was like, what, what did you say? Michael Bennett died? And I walked into the theater and into the men's dressing room that night, because we were all sort of pretty much in every in the dressing I said, guys, I don't know about you, but I just can't, I just can't sit still. We need to do something. And our monkeys trap Randy Clements had been part of, I think the tour, of course, on if I'm not mistaken, national I believe, yes. Zach, if I'm not mistaken, right? Joanne, correct. You are correct. And he said, Well, why don't we do a tribute to Michael Bennett, and that's how it started. And you're talking to Leslie, Joanne and myself, we all had very active roles in putting that, that benefit, together. And like Leslie said, You didn't really talk about HIV AIDS, and this

[11:22] Speaker 4: And it was interesting, because this was actually two years before Broadway Cares, equity fights, AIDS was even formed, and we put it was Judy and Mickey that's put on a show. But oh my god, we I can still see this production that we did, and Joanne was Joanne helped to choreograph it, and she put several numbers together for it, and Leslie. Leslie and I were on costumes. We did the costumes,

[11:55] Speaker 3: and I also created the posters with Adria, everybody. It was very grassroots, and that's the kind of team it was. That's what one of the things that made it so special. I mean, you can imagine, I'd been on other tours, and it, it's hard being on the road like that. I mean, but we were young and we were eager and we were excited, and we all just, I mean, it was a real love fest. I mean, I remember it as such. So if it wasn't kids, don't remind me, but it was, it was really, it was the most amazing, like collaboration. It was so grassroots. Everybody said, Well, I, I can do that, you know, which is a number from chorus line. So, you know, yeah,

[12:33] Speaker 5: I agree with you completely. I think that. Well, one like, I like, I said, or for me, anyway, I don't want to speak for everybody. But for me, no dating cats was like, it was the end of end all. I mean, it was okay. I've made I've done it, I've made it. And, you know, and then, then, when you're, you know, we were thrown in a room with everybody who's never done the show. None of us came from another company or the Broadway company. We were all brand new to the show, which, it doesn't always happen. Lots of times, they'll bring people from another company over. Our company was a brand spanking new group of actors and performers. That's

[13:08] Speaker 4: right, Joanne, I didn't realize that. And we,

[13:11] Speaker 5: we just we, I mean, we were forced to crawl around the floor our first day of rehearsal and basically smell and look each other. So we got to know each other really well, really fast. And, and the trust. I think the trust happened immediately, and, and I think we, I think as as a whole, it was a great, beautiful group of people. And, you know, when, when we had heard the news of Michael Bennet passing, it was, you know, I mean, it hits the theater community. I mean, he was an icon, right then, as, as, as Jonathan said that. T Michael Reed, who basically put all he was, Jillian eyes and ears, right? Jillian lens and he's one of put everything together a month and a half. And correct me from later. T Michael Reed died of a I'll never forget this. We were told at the five minute call, yes, being in tears and doing that damn a Dodge. And I goes like this, I got to get through this. It was so emotional and so and it was and so we put that, that benefit together. I think he died in August. God, I wish I had my paperwork in front of me. I can't remember, but we that benefit. Together, like within a month, two months after,

[14:25] Speaker 4: you are absolutely right, Joanne was it was a few weeks later that that that T Michael had passed away

[14:33] Speaker 5: because he was a kind human

[14:38] Speaker 4: being. He was, and he was, he was close with Michael Bennett. I think he actually was part of the chorus line, you know, entourage there, but, yeah, no that, you know. And unfortunately, and when you watch our benefit, we do an in memoriam section to, I'm gonna get choked up to. Um, to those that we know we lost, and we did. We did lose many cast members and crew and and it's, it was just, you know, and so with that, I'll jump to this moment, because I'm going to break down we the guests Neufeld, which was our general managers, and Nina LAN, who is a brilliant woman in the theater, producer and and General Manager. They came down to see our our benefit, and she pulls aside you, as you know, guys, I You guys should continue this. You guys should do this. You know, when you can. One stipulation is a cannot interview with the show, with what we're getting paid for. But I think you guys should continue this. And Mike, what was wonderful with that company is that we did little one offs all across the country, you know, and we got very fancy at one point we Lily Tomlin agreed to come on board as one of our hosts, and we in Washington, and we raise some more money, but this was and it sort of will flash us forward to 35 years later, but we'll save that for the when we talk about the benefit. But let's talk about that

[16:13] Speaker 2: now, because I think it's kind of, you know, let's segue. And the other stuff I want to ask you about is a little bit more light natured and topic. So let's cover this. But it's really cool to see the parallel 3035, years later that this effort, this grassroots effort, you know, incredible one day turned into continuous fundraising, is now coming back and and bringing back in a time of need again, your community. So tell me about how this came to life and about the fundraiser.

[16:47] Speaker 4: It was a phone call from one of the cast members, Austin jaton. Listen, we lived together for two years. There's no room. You can't not be family with people. And so we immediately fell back into that spirit. But Austin called me up, and I retired from dancing, and have moved on to producing and directing, and I think we all have advanced in our careers. On the other side of the table, which I'm very grateful for. But he calls me up and he says, Jonathan, do you remember when we did the I said, Yes. He didn't even finish the sentence. He goes, Well, what do you think? And I said, Yes, because I didn't even finish my question. I said, whatever you're going to ask me, Austin, the answer is yes. It was literally, like three weeks after Governor Cuomo shut down Broadway. He, I think he, I think he closed down the theaters on March 12, if I'm not mistaken, yeah. So, so literally, like two weeks later, Austin calls me up and says, What do you think if we do this? And I said, the only way I will consider doing this is if we do it for the Actors Fund and that that then I immediately called Joanne. I immediately called Jimmy wall ski, our dance captain and our music team, Eddie Robinson, all the conductors, and said, Hey, how do we do this? We were building the plane as we were flying it, so to speak. Nobody had done this before, and I was like and Joanne husband, Brian Ronan saved our cells. Brilliant.

[18:45] Speaker 4: and Brian, Brian was on the tour as sound designer, sound engineer. Thank you. Thank you. And I knew just

[18:58] Speaker 5: have to clarify that not not have sex with him, then I have to clarify that.

[19:09] Speaker 4: No, no, anyway, but, but so long story short, Mike is all of us got together and we figured it out, as we do in the industry. And when I, when I approached Broadway Cares and the Actors Fund, we were able to commandeer both Brian Stokes, Mitchell and Tom Viola. Who are, you know, respectfully, the the head of Stokes is the chair, chair, chairman of the board of the Actors Fund, and Tom viol is the executive director of Broadway Cares. We got them both together to host this evening. So it's rather special, because I have seen many of these events happen, and that is a I have not seen Stokes and Tom together in one event. So we're fortunate to have that. But and. Every single person pulled their weight, and we muscled through the opening number. We had some restrictions that we couldn't, you know, and Joanne and I, who we sort of conceived this, Joanne, you can, you can talk to this too, about our restrictions on what we agreed to do and not do. I'll let Joanne speak to that. But we all pulled pulled this together, and all I can say is we kept on texting each other going, did we really do this in this key eight times a week? And I was like, yeah. Eddie Robinson, our conductor says, this is the, this is the Show Key. And we were like, how the heck? And I said, when we were 28 years old, we're 60 now, you know. But Joanne, why don't you talk about, you know, just what, in terms of creating that opening number? We weren't allowed, certain,

[21:00] Speaker 5: yes. Well, I think you know, as you said, Jonathan. I mean, when Jonathan called myself and Jimmy, and we were like, yes, women, what on what, you know. And I mean, I had just finished doing a benefit for another project, so I kind of had a smidgen, and I use that term very lightly, a smidgen of knowledge of the zooming, but, you know, but you know, so when, when I said, All right, and I've worked, I'm working with Andrew Lloyd Webber a lot, so I have a relationship with him. So I said, Well, let's and Jonathan. Because of Jonathan saying, I also want to do this, right? I want to do it with their blessing. Oh, you know, I mean, I thought that was brilliant. And so, so we got in touch. So we were talking with rug releaseful group, and you know, they just, the first thing they said was, you're gonna, you're not gonna work costumes, are you? I said, Hell no, I'm not putting on make no, we're not, we're not doing that. And so that was something that they did not want to see and not want to go back and then. And then, of course, the other big thing was in Yes, yes, you have our blessing, but we we ask that you do not bring up certain things. And we said, absolutely. So it was, you know, it was the restrictions. Weren't crazy, and we were only, that was the only big group number we were doing. And we just, we said, we just wanted to make it fun, but there would be no choreography, choreography that was reminiscent of Jillian's movements, or or anything in that. And also, like, at all, yeah, right, yeah. And we can have fun with it and play, but it was and so that was really their, their biggest concern. And and we were like, That's yeah, we're just gonna have fun and and so we did. So we had to have everybody make their own video of the song. We're

[22:51] Speaker 3: very much hoping to be nominated for an Emmy award category of YouTube videos shot on zoom using an iPhone.

[23:03] Speaker 4: The pandemic, yeah, let me clarify a few of those points. We really were, you know, building the plane as we were flying it. And, you know, those are all of us work in a room. We collaborate with each other, and we talk with each other in the studio, and we're making changes, and, you know, all of that that was that didn't happen here at all. As we say, we had zoom meetings to discuss, you know, plans of attack, and really, that helped, but when it came down to the actual capture, let's just go with Jellicle songs. First of all, we had to relearn the song, and that in itself, is putting that muscle back in touch, into shape.

[23:53] Speaker 4: yes, as Leslie said, so many words. And like Joanne articulated, we weren't we didn't want to recreate the number. We wanted to celebrate the number. And, you know, it's a celebratory, you know, there's a, you know, Andrew Lloyd Webber wrote an incredible, you know, melody to that song. And it does have its, you know, a joy to it, expressing these individual characters. And and what we did is we, I said to everybody, look, when you have your solo lines, be creative with it. You know, here's, here's a sort of a framework, but be creative with it. And then we just, you know, created some, some wonderful ensemble moments from that. I mean, it's the only number that everybody is on stage all the time for the complete five minutes, every single character does that opening number. And that's, that's, that's what we tried to sort of capture that and, but, but, yeah, it wasn't, it was easy. And I

[24:54] Speaker 3: want to, also, I want to interject here, if I may, and say that, John, when you and I were talking earlier. Early on about memory, we said one thing we really wanted to do is make it pertinent to today. We wanted it to be resonant to what everybody's going through right now

[25:21] Speaker 4: became, well, that was that, was it too. And in talking with Joanne and with Jimmy and with Eddie, you know, we're not here to recreate the musical. We not, not for anything. We've done it. So we don't need to do it again. We need to celebrate

[25:36] Speaker 2: it. It's been running for 40 years. It's, yeah, I What, what would you say to someone who's going to come watch? What can a fan expect to see when they come to the fundraiser on Friday?

[25:53] Speaker 5: Well, you're gonna see, oh, I'm so sorry, Jonathan, but I just have so you're gonna you're gonna see and hear Leslie sing memory and Christine toy Johnson, the syllable, who's our who was our syllabi, sing the soprano memories. I call it, and it's extraordinary. It's beautiful. I mean, I, I don't know if I've ever said this to Leslie. I've seen, I've not seen cast that often, but I've heard many people at auditions sing memory and I would watch you every single night and never and I just, I, it's her. Her performance was extraordinary then, and it's even more poignant now, because it comes with, it comes with more knowledge of who she is. It comes with, with the the environment that we are now currently living in. So that, to me, is will be a beautiful and it was put together beautifully by our dear, dear friend, Matt zerli, who is pounciable in the show, who did a beautiful job, as Leslie said, making it poignant and making it feel that it's relevant, even though it's out of context. So that's all

[27:03] Speaker 4: I'm actually going to go and correct that he did. Matt zarli, not only did it, did he create the video concept of this beautifully? He created it brilliantly and

[27:24] Speaker 4: we hadn't. We had an idea with it, and I don't want to ruin this for those who will watch it, but I was concerned about how we were going to put that into the into this, because I knew people would want to see it. And something happened to me during the first few weeks of the pandemic, and I lived here in New York City, and we were hard hit. Joanna, New York City resident, I think Leslie, you're, I know Leslie, you're in you're in Nashville. We, we were, we were hit here in New York. And the this, the morbid silence that resonated in the streets was was deafening. That sound was deafening and and something happened which I witnessed, that I at that moment, understood we were given permission to do this song. So I called Leslie up and I discussed it with her. I I was encouraged to watch a video that Matt Zahle had produced, and within 30 nanoseconds, I said, Matt has to do memory. I call Matt in Los Angeles, and I say, Matt, I need you to do this for me. Here's, here's, here's what we're thinking. And every director wants this to happen, for it to come back into the room better than it left the room. And when I saw the rough draft of this, I could not contain myself. It hit and resonated in such a place that I didn't expect. So I called Matt up, and I was like a blubbering baby on the phone, and his work is just exquisite. I mean, exquisite. It's brilliant, it's beautiful, it's brilliant. It's spot on. So thoughtful. And Leslie's work in it with Christine and the way we position this, I'm very excited to be able to share it with everybody, but the rest of the rest of the evening. If I could just articulate I said, we brought in Christine toy Johnson, who is this brilliant playwright and has written several wonderful plays and is being produced all over the country, and I'm so honored just to be working with this woman. She's an incredible collaborator. And I called her up to initially, I said, we need a script, would you? And she said, Yes, of course. So we had a script, and we followed a script, and the script was was looked at by really useful in terms of the dynamic. Mix of it. And we, as we mentioned, we do Jellicle songs and we do memory but there's a few other treats in there. We have a little moment with Joanne and Stokes, which is kind of fun. And we have a why the Actors Fund is important to all of us who are in the entertainment industry. And that's a segment called testimonials of hope, which is really quite wonderful. But the one thing that I have to articulate here, and I don't mean to be dominating this conversation, I'll shut up in two minutes, I had asked to do naming of cats and read the poem, and tangert Dotson was like, oh, that's that's a different department, trying to like, well, what department is that? And they said you have to go to the TS Eliot estate for that. Well, long story short, the TS Eliot estate gave us permission to read, in an oratorical fashion, the naming of cats. And we position this because we are doing this close to Halloween, with a sort of hook into the mystery of and the spirit of Halloween and the ineffable quality of that poem, brilliantly written by obviously TS Eliot. So there's a fun moment there. But yeah, we had fun.

[31:20] Speaker 2: There's so much to look forward to. It sounds, I mean, really exciting. And so just want to remind everyone that they can see it on october 23 which is this Friday, 8pm org slash cats benefit. And I do want to quickly just I want to see, is there anything else we want you want you want to talk about, about the fundraiser, because, if not, we're going to take a hard left into more cats topics.

[31:48] Speaker 4: I will say this just very quickly. I'm sorry, ladies, to dominate this. But and Joanne, you know this about Stokes? Brian Stokes Mitchell, who is the chair, Chairperson of the board of the actress fund most recently articulated that in a normal year, the actress fund gives out $2 million that's a normal year to date. To date, they have already exceeded $12 million

[32:20] Speaker 4: Yes. Thank you. I was gonna say the September. Where are we now? We're so I am sure that that number has gone up. But if there is, if there is, if there is a place for, for for a donation to be made, it is the entertainment industry, who is just hemorrhaging right now with with the needed funds here. So anything we can do, and it's Broadway cares.org, forward slash cats benefit, to watch the video, and there's a link there to make a donation. And PS, we haven't even put, wait for it, a paw on stage yet, and we have already raised over 20% of our funding goal. Yes, so, so well over, well over two grand with that, actually, I think we're closer to three grand now that I'm thinking about it, if I can just look at it, yes, we are closer to $3,000 Thank you very much. Over $3,000 Yes, wow.

[33:29] Speaker 2: They are incredible people who I'm confident will come out to watch this.

[33:36] Speaker 3: Yeah, the music is so much fun, and it's, really fun.

[33:42] Speaker 2: Great. I am very excited. And we've got, you know, people are gonna, people are gonna go see it. And so I'm excited for that, and I don't want to spoil anymore, because, you know, it's, it's gonna happen soon, and so everyone's gonna get to watch. So I want to go back to to your your tour, and I have one quick question, because you mentioned it, and I was, I've been very curious, but I know that you did outdoor theaters, and I have been fascinated by stage designs for this musical, because when I walked in in 2016 I was mesmerized by the whole thing before the show even started. Yeah, I'm really wondering, how did you Leslie, ascend to the heavy side, layer outdoors, did you like it? Roped up on a tree and carry like

[34:28] Speaker 3: theaters are, these are, these are our shed theaters that are used to doing, you know, you know, summer stock and all kinds of they're there. And we traveled with our own trusts and and all of the equipment. We had two semis. Did we have guys

[34:47] Speaker 5: like two semis? I think we had seven trucks. I think we traveled with six or seven trucks, seven.

[34:51] Speaker 3: Okay, we had seven semis. Like big, big trucks that traveled with all that stuff. And so there, actually, in since in St Louis. Us. We had a slate, I guess it was all of the time. Both times when we did the outdoor, we did have different sets that had been built for, I forget who, Joe. Do you remember? God, I

[35:14] Speaker 5: remember at the muni we it was, it felt like an extended set, because it was such a huge stage. So we had more garbage, for lack of better, right on the side,

[35:25] Speaker 3: exactly. It was the way they had. It was different, though, because I remember we all went up and we were like, cats. We were like, wow, look at this. That's not the same. Ooh, look at that. That tire is different. Yeah.

[35:39] Speaker 4: One of the things was that, that our set that we traveled with was, with the exception of a few technical things, was built for indoors. So we couldn't, we couldn't. It wasn't waterproof. We couldn't have it, oh, yeah, okay, it wasn't weather proof. So, so all of those outdoor sets had to be built for that particular, you know, week, or whatever it was that we were there with. And, yeah, they just made everything.

[36:08] Speaker 5: So that wasn't our deck, probably now, so anything that was under the overhang was probably part of our set. Could possibly get wet, was probably all the new add ons now that I Yeah, kind of think about that, I guess, yeah. I mean, I was, I was so young, then I was like, What am I, God,

[36:29] Speaker 2: just, just setting you up. It doesn't matter how just but

[36:33] Speaker 3: it was the same trust, I'm pretty sure. And it was the same Yeah, pod, and it was the same tire. I'm relatively certain that those were consistent with, you know what we had done before? Yeah,

[36:48] Speaker 4: levitating tire and and Leslie there was, there was a platform that dropped down from the truck exactly you stepped on to and went up. There wasn't in the Broadway production. There was sort of an arm that came down, that Grizz walked up. This was a, this was a platform that lowered from that first trust, if I remember correctly, you got on, walked off, and then there was one of those cherry pickers, that

[37:18] Speaker 5: hydraulic she our tie was uplift, yeah, that's right,

[37:21] Speaker 4: that's what, yeah. We didn't, we didn't have. The only thing we didn't have Mike was one of the things we didn't have was our car, the the trunk didn't, didn't raise up. That was one of the mechanical things we didn't have. But

[37:38] Speaker 2: that's a good transition, because I think the other thing I've been fascinated about is, again, a show that's gone for 40 years has changed and evolved. There was some choices that were interesting. I'll just call them that. There's also some regional you know, if they go overseas, where they add different characters and things have been different names. So what at the time of the 80s versus today? What are the biggest changes you've seen from the production you did to what you would see if you went to the tour, the 2016 Revival Today?

[38:11] Speaker 3: Well, I'll say in speaking about memory, I think that the way the singers sing it now is very different. Back then, it was just Broadway people doing the show. And now, um, there are pop stars. I can't remember her name, who played it in 2016 Leona Lewis, yeah, we both worked with the same producer out in California. But, um, you know, she's, she's much, much more of a pop artist. In fact, she's huge pop artist. So I think that's that's different, maybe an approach to the music. But I didn't see that production either, so I don't know guys. I

[38:55] Speaker 5: think the only physical to me, the obvious thing that I noticed, I didn't see it on Broadway. I saw it actually at the Palladium in London when it was there, before it came to New York and and visually it, costume wise, was different. They were it felt a little bit it felt sparse, more sparse makeup, the makeup design was definitely very different from our makeup from the original from Broadway, not the original West End. I think original West ends makeup design was very different when it came to Broadway. And then Broadway's design is what all of all the national companies did. We did that was our that was the design it. But so the makeup design and the haircut, all the whole, basically, the esthetic design of each individual cat character was very is very different now than it was when we did it. Yeah,

[39:45] Speaker 4: and another thing, Joanne, did you see 216 the 2016 revival?

[39:49] Speaker 5: I saw it in London. I did not see it in New York.

[39:53] Speaker 4: I saw it in New York when we were all invited back to see it. And I will tell you there was. Structural differences within the show itself. They eliminated peaks and polls. Best growl Tiger didn't do the Siamese didn't do. What was that? What was the thing you did with Siamese? What was that? Oh, gosh,

[40:20] Speaker 4: I remember you specifically doing Siamese, because I would torture you, because torture you in that number,

[40:37] Speaker 6: that big, we want these big things over our face, I covered our eyes and mouth, or

[40:44] Speaker 4: something like that. Well, that was eliminated from the 2016 revival pink Pollock. Those wasn't, wasn't done either. And they, they re, they shifted some of the storyline in terms of, you know, what was the placement of songs? Yes, you know. And it was, it was wonderfully conceived by Andy blanken dealer, who did, who did a marvelous job with, with, with bringing this back. But there were some structural changes that, you know, just hey, listen, they made changes. And that was that. But we our company, we did not and speaking of makeup and all of that, it's interesting, because I don't know if you ladies know this, but the London company from what Gary Stevens, the person who did my hair,

[41:44] Speaker 4: that's right, I have a picture of Gary making a suit piece, exactly. But Gary was our hairdresser. And I didn't realize that he was all three of our hairdressers, but he said, you know, Jonathan, they the skim ball. You're the only one that has, still has whiskers. And I was like, Really, so skimble was, one of the only characters that they that they brought the whiskers over from from London, because, apparently in London, they had a lot more facial hair and whiskers on the actors. But skingo had to have those mutton chops put on every night. And yeah, I if you actually see my face right now, I don't actually have any more cheeks left because of the Spirit content that I have to use for that. But, yeah, no, but, but we had, we had the, I don't want to say authentic, but we had the John Napier's original concept for, for for the makeup and costumes and hair and wigs and all of that.

[42:43] Speaker 2: And so that's the other question that I love to ask, and I'm fascinated to hear it from from your tour, because it's the you know, I've heard a lot of it from 2016 but most of what I've examined from a lens that deeper than I've ever expected to go on this lens is the back stories of your characters. And so the question I want to ask is, you know, with skimble, Victoria and Grizabella, what were you told going into production about how to play that character, the personalities, relationships with other cats? I mean, what were you given, or did you just kind of figure it out on the fly.

[43:21] Speaker 3: I worked with Stanley Lebowski and David Taylor just by myself, and they were amazing. As you know, I have a degree in acting from Carnegie Mellon University, and, you know, a lot of times, and I didn't really know this was my only, only my second job in New York, but I I'd been a lot of times from directors. You get do it like this, do it like that. But they were very much, they very much wanted me to kind of make up my own story, make my own personal back story that would resonate when I sang the song. So they didn't tell me anything in terms of, like, particular TS Eliot lore or anything like that. They just emphasized, you know, the moments when I wasn't hitting them and things like that. So it was really a very organic process. So

[44:23] Speaker 2: did you come up with your own backstory? Again? Did you like, have the this could be my, you know, my, my sibling, or this could be my, you know, lover, or this is, like, my, you know, this is what happened, especially for girls Bell, like, what happened on, why you were kicked out, or, like, any of these things there's, I have my opinions and my interpretations of it, but I know mine is just me making it up versus being actually told or coming up with it for someone who had to perform at eight times a week. Well,

[44:50] Speaker 3: you know, obviously I didn't know the kittens at all because they were young, and

[44:56] Speaker 2: I think potentially your kids, that's the other thing that's kind of crazy. About that,

[45:02] Speaker 3: yeah, I didn't go that far into that kind of stuff. Okay, I kind of like, you know, thought maybe Gus, you know, and I had a career in her, you know, together, moments together, but I didn't go into a lot of that in terms of my relationships with the specific cats, it was more like a community, a tribe that I had belonged to, that I needed to find my way back into. And one thing that I played off of a lot was that the kittens were the only ones who would approach me, I think sometimes you can get too much backstory when you're working on on things, and most of my time on stage was all by myself. So it wasn't like I had to interact in a scene with people just, just basically right before I would sing and things like that. So I'd love to hear what your theories are.

[46:05] Speaker 2: I have a lot. There's a lot. There's a lot out there on the internet of you know who you are, the mother, potentially, of and is that? Why was someone approaching first when they come when they come back, and there's a, there's a lot, it's a really dark, dark web of internet rumors you can get into if you want

[46:30] Speaker 5: I can tell you, Oh, sorry, go ahead. Leslie, go ahead. I have never heard that, ever. I can tell you what, Victor, what I was told, if I believe, by David Taylor, that Victoria, that that that Victoria has a very connection with Grizabella, and that is why she's and she's a kitten, and, you know, and and bigotry and hate is taught, it's not, you're not born with it, right? And so the idea that, that she's the first one, she's the one that touches that it that says that doesn't let her leave. And and I was told that, and I'm gonna paraphrase like crazy, because I'm trying to remember, but that at one time, Grizabella was the Victoria in the tribe. She was the she was the they were said she was the young, the innocent, the one that was gonna and then, and then she strayed. That's her, something like that. And she hooked up one too many times. So that's what I kind of remember. But nothing big was not the mother of any of the kittens, but that she was very similar to Victoria, being the pure cat, and then she and then she became a Huss, no, I'm kidding.

[47:53] Speaker 2: That's not a joke. That's the rumor like went on to some type of sex work or some type of drug,

[48:02] Speaker 3: leaving the tribe. Definitely, that was definitely, that was definitely part of my my backstory is that she had fallen from approval. She had fallen from grace, that that she was the glamor cat. She was the on her way to possibly a theater career, movie career, and interacted with Gus, maybe, and the

[48:29] Speaker 3: and that she well, and then, and then she well, the theater crowd, whatever, and she lost her way somehow, and that now she's, you know, she's up. I've

[48:40] Speaker 2: always said that it's the, it's the ball Britney Spears, moment before getting the Vegas show.

[48:47] Speaker 3: Oh, my God, like that. That kind of, like, really low. Yeah, thank goodness there was no internet.

[48:57] Speaker 2: Yes, there was no, there's no social media. When this, you know, the show came out. So there that that part of the story is not, not out there. It's just, you know, I guess, made up by the super fans or people's interpretations. You guys

[49:14] Speaker 4: have way too much time on your hands, I will say, because I will say because I knew we were going to ask this question. And I will say that on our first day of rehearsal, or there, shortly thereafter, our first day, they put us all in a circle. And we were at the old 890 studios, if you remember, which is the Michael Bennet Studios, which is the Michael Bennet studios, that's right. And we were all put together in a big circle, and we introduced ourselves, etc. And I will, I will remember very, very specifically, David Taylor, our director, saying skimble shanks. Well, he's everybody's favorite uncle. And that was, and I thought his favorite uncle. So I. Guess you're trying to tell me, I'm a gunko, a gay uncle. Is that what you're trying to tell me? And what I found interesting about, about that is just the fastidiousness of this character, you know, we didn't, you know, I did what I could with that role in terms of what it was. And to me, you know, the costume dictated this sort of wonderful brightness. The song itself starts off with Jingle Bells and what I learned later. And Joanne. Joanne, I asked Joanne this, and she, she, she, she confirmed this, that it was Andrew Lloyd Webber's favorite song in the show. If I'm not mistaken, Joanna my right about that. He loves

[50:58] Speaker 4: I really loved it. I really did love it. There was something that that hit me with that, and I did my job, you know, I hope I did it well. But as far as this, the interactions, yeah, there was talk about me, you know, hooking up with Gumby cat. Maybe we're doing something, something we had like, you know, we were all sort of, you know, plotting, like, you know, armies and this kind of thing. And, you know, I don't know, but there's

[51:31] Speaker 2: a room. It's called Tugger Tugger shanks.

[51:39] Speaker 4: let me sit with that for a minute. I need to talk to BK about that for us, who did a brilliant job after we had Andy Spangler, who was our first

[51:56] Speaker 4: original Congress. Andy Spangler, I know we weren't able to locate Andy, and I hope he's doing well wherever he is, but Andy was with our show for a hot second, and I literally, I spoke to BK two days ago, and I said, BK. I said, I gotta tell you something I don't remember. The only Tugger I remember is you. So if there was a relationship between Tugger and skimble. What did you call it? Tugger? Tugger shanks.

[52:35] Speaker 6: no we were. I will tell you. I will tell you what our,

[52:40] Speaker 4: our the creative team did for us. And Joanne articulated this earlier they had us, and you said, One day, Joanne, I'm going to correct you. I believe a week,

[52:52] Speaker 5: no, but that was the first day of rehearsal. It was the morning we sat around. They gave us a synopsis that after lunch on our first day, we were crawling around, licking each other. Yeah,

[53:05] Speaker 4: absolutely right. We were absolutely right. And we and we really and they improbed us for a number of days for us to to work in this Feline, you know, form, and also to just get to know each other. Because I think Leslie mentioned the word tribe, and that was one word that they kept on reiterating to us. This tribe of cats gets together one time a year to decide who's going to go up to the heavy side layer and and I remember that very, very clearly with that and all these little antidotes that happen in between. Exemplify two, Oh, dude, who he's going to choose to do this, and who does he choose? We all know. So

[53:55] Speaker 3: I'm interested in knowing Mike, who you think should have been chosen.

[54:03] Speaker 2: Let's, let's try. Let's do the round robin. Okay, and then I'll answer that after I make all of you answer that as well. Okay, so the first round robin question is, if you got to go on as a different cat than who you went on, who would you want to play

[54:25] Speaker 5: because she was older. I mean, not the actress. I don't mean, but, you know, there was something because I was, you know, I was the white cat, and she had to be pure and and she had to do that damn Adagio every night. And

[54:42] Speaker 5: you're very kind. Thank you. But I just, I just love bomb. I love her coming out. I mean, I love to meet her and Bob, I love the song. I love that they had sass. There's sexuality to them. They were they were edgier. So that's who I wanted to be. I.

[55:00] Speaker 3: I go, or I have no idea. I mean, the interesting thing is that I actually got this role and Joe, I was at that dance call with you at the Court Theater in New York. I had to get originally, I couldn't get an audition for Grizabella because my My agent said they were going to go with a name, and I was just a kid. So I went to the dance call for bomb and Demeter. I was auditioning for bomb and Demeter, and I walked out of that whole process with the lead. I it was a crazy, crazy thing, you know, John, I wrote a TED talk on that.

[55:46] Speaker 5: amazing. I didn't know that Leslie, oh my God, but I remember

[55:50] Speaker 3: you that ponytail and everything. Oh, man.

[55:57] Speaker 3: gonna go with bomb and demeanor too, because I was thinking that I would get that. I was, you know, up for that. And I was really proud that I'd been kept after the dance audition, and I had a really great bluesy Broadway song to perform for my for the singing, you know, when they asked me to stay and sing, and I was, I had gotten my head wrapped around that, that I was excited to do that. So I'm gonna say, I'm gonna say, bomb,

[56:23] Speaker 4: so I guess that leaves me, Mike. I'm going to be up front with you and and, and I'm going to give you a sort of a pat answer to your question as to who, what the other character I would be, and it would probably be the follow spot operator. I had no, no ambition to play other, any other character in that show. I really didn't. I admired everybody for what they were, what who they were cast as. And in retrospect, looking back on it, is spot on perfect. Spot on

[56:57] Speaker 2: Oh, I'm not saying replace, replace your own cast. I'm saying, if you were, you know, in a in a fantasy world of the Winter Garden, ignoring, or whatever, you know, because, you know, I answered this question before. I can't sing a note, so I can't go on as any of the cats. But it's kind of fun to think about which, you know, which storyline interesting.

[57:21] Speaker 4: I mean, I guess Mongo Jerry, just because it was sort of close to skimble. I mean, I, you know, in terms of the the animation of it, or, I mean, I don't know. I don't know. I live in my when they would say, you know, when you would come out of the stage run to be like, who you? Who are you? And when you wanted to go to dinner, you'd be like, I must have fall spot. Operator,

[57:42] Speaker 3: yeah, with pin curls and a ball on a baseball cap, right?

[57:47] Speaker 2: So what was your favorite? What's your favorite song outside of take out the one that is either about you or that you dance to?

[57:59] Speaker 3: Hmm, well, I was gonna say Jellicle cats, because I think that is one of the most wonderfully written songs. I'm a songwriter now and, and I just think that is musically, it's just so exciting and brilliant. But I guess I did perform in

[58:17] Speaker 2: that one. I think I meant more, you know, no skimble Shanks, no memory, or, yeah, then definitely

[58:23] Speaker 3: shell cook cats is, oh, my God. I used to love doing that number. It was so much fun. Yeah,

[58:33] Speaker 5: I'm gonna say mccavity. I love singing Macavity. When all the ladies came out to finish the song.

[58:38] Speaker 4: That's right, that's right. That's right. All you gals did in the COVID, didn't you? That's right, that's right. I can see those two lines. Man, right? Yes, I have to say the moment that I and I told Jimmy walls this the other day, I said, in choir, tire, when we, when we, when we were singing mystical divinity, before the after the boot drop. Yeah, you do that. What was it? What that explosion from that tire that I have to say? And I told Jimmy this, I said, I have to be honest with you, Jimmy, there wasn't one time that I don't remember that I didn't absolutely love doing that moment in the show skimble was right next to Mustafa. Is, I told this to Randy Slovakia, who played a Mustafa. Is, I said, I love being next to you in choir, entire choir, just because we had such a fun time. And then that breakout That to me was, was, was really it just was a beautifully constructed theatrical moment. And as a director and choreographer, you look back on that, go, Yeah, you got that one, right? You know,

[59:54] Speaker 3: from the opening number, just, yeah, no, no, I'm just telling Mike, because I don't know if he. New,

[60:08] Speaker 4: Retire choirs, when, when the whole company comes together to sing mystical divinity, you know, the whole section, Okay, second to

[60:17] Speaker 2: last one that we're going to get to my final question, which is, if you had to quarantine with one of the characters not quarantine with?

[60:32] Speaker 4: Wow, what a question. Wow. If you got stuck,

[60:38] Speaker 2: you got stuck in a New York apartment with for the month of April, with one of the

[60:45] Speaker 4: cats. I'm gonna say this to you only because she's texting me right now asking me how this interview is going right now. Is, is, is a demeanor played by in our company, by Deborah Genevieve or Athens who, who, I have to say, if I was stuck in a room with anyone, it would have to be Demeter, just because, just because, because I know she'd set up a bottle of whiskey on the table and be like, I'm

[61:10] Speaker 3: gonna say, I'm gonna say mango Jerry and rumple teaser. Because it, you know, for all those moments where we were just paralyzed, what are we gonna do now? You know that would have made them they would have made it fun with their menacing tricks, and that to me, yeah, that's a good answer.

[61:56] Speaker 6: sex appeal too. Yeah, I did

[62:11] Speaker 2: Most common answer so far has been misto police. You get magic. Just seems like a good a good time. That's been the most common answer so far. I had argued if I took out the New York apartment. Thing is that I'm pretty sure bus for Jones probably has a pretty nice suburban mansion. You might see him, and you know the fridge would be stocked. Everything would be correct. What

[62:50] Speaker 4: Listen, skimble had had quite a lot to do with Buster for Jones, that particular number. I remember, you know, being very close to, you know, in the staging of it, I remember they were saying, you know, you take care of everything. For bus returns. He's me make sure he's, you know, his napkin is right. Whoever runs like, Okay, fine.

[63:10] Speaker 2: So final question, you know, it's coming. I've argued for many, many episodes that I don't think Isabelle is the right choice to be the joke. And so my question is, do you agree or disagree with me? And if you agree with me, who would you pick to be the gentleman choice?

[63:31] Speaker 3: Oh, gosh, yeah, I tried to think of, you know, because it's hard for me not this is Leslie talking now. It's hard for me not to think that she was right based on what I think her story is. So I mean, Deuteronomy needs to stick around.

[63:53] Speaker 4: If I could, if I could, you know, give, give a.dot.to that. Thus, grout Tiger would be the other choice for, yeah, that's to, you know, just, just the retrospect, you know, the introspection of his, of his number, and what he tells us he would make a candidate to go to the heavy side there.

[64:21] Speaker 3: I mean, look for it. I mean, like everybody else is young,

[64:26] Speaker 2: Dad ensures this debate gets very interesting. It depends on how surreal, wow. So if you the interpretation, and my interpretation, let me, I'm not going to claim credit here. This is the way I kind of approached this again, walking out mesmerized in 2016 knowing nothing about what I was going to see. So I interpreted as I saw Leona Lewis, I interpret as the X Factor. I watched a competition show and just each cat, everyone that sang, was up for the win. So to me, I didn't. Really, until I started digging deeper, and it's very clear that, besides Grizabella, Gus, is kind of the one that gets argued the most. I viewed it as I just watched the weirdest form of The X Factor that I've ever seen. And I I took it as the ones that so I remember Mongo J ripple teaser. That was a song stuck in my head, but the performances that were most memorable to me were Tugger and Mustafa lees. And then, you know, they've got their whole Are they together? Brothers together? What that whole thing? And then I just kept thinking the X Factor. Simon Cowell always just takes two solos and makes them a group, like One Direction in Fifth Harmony. I think they should go together. That's been my argument.

[65:38] Speaker 3: Oh, and I always thought they had had a past, so that makes sense.

[65:46] Speaker 5: Oh, that's interesting. I always thought that that the heavy side layer was when almost like as if you've, you've, you've learned what you needed to learn so you're able to move on where. And the only thing about Gus, I felt like Gus was, I think, I think to me, Gus was in his seventh life. This was his last life, yeah, so that's why we got that reminiscent. That's why I was stuck. That's why I thought like, Grizabella, you know, she, like, like, um, Leslie said, you know, she, she was on her way to be something. She went she she lost her path, she lost her way, but she is come to given a second chance, and so this is why, and she deserves a second chance. Not that every cat does, but to me, Tugger and misophys, they're like, they're still there, they're, they're they're still running wild. Yeah, they brought off the past so much that they need to, they need to come back and as as in their next life, to learn more. Yet, I think, yeah, that's what I always thought. So that's why. But I by me, I always think Gus would be but at the same time, Gus, this is Gus last life,

[66:55] Speaker 2: hmm. And actually, that was 2016 Christopher ger that was his argument, is that he didn't think he had another life to live. So if he died, he thought it was over. So he kind of felt the same way, which, you know, the more I've researched, the more I've I've thought like that argument, one makes sense, the argument for Grizabella based off of, like, whose time it is, who's deserving. I get it. I really think I walked out of the theater was, I mean, I walked into the theater with no context, and I walked out of the theater with my frame from Leona Lewis. I think if you would have replaced her with anybody else at the time, I might not have came to that conclusion, which I do think is a kind of a fascinating thing about what I love about this show, which is everybody sees it at a different time, different production, different way, and picks out something unique about it, like almost everyone answers every one of those round robin questions differently, which is, I don't think the case in a lot of other musicals. I think a lot of the musicals there's obviously, there's someone that you really love, or you kind of are almost pointed to somebody, versus this musical is there's so much happening, there's so many different ways to interpret it. There's incredible performances from everybody, and it's just kind of a unique thing, and that's what's kind of beautiful about the musical.

[68:05] Speaker 4: Well, Mike, if I, as I'm listening to both of my my dear colleagues, and you say this, and I will, I will try to submit this as best I can, every artist who does anything in theater can only hope that what they do has a legacy and has something that can be talked about for generations to come. And the fact that we are talking about this, not only 34 years later, but in this context, is a testament to the creation of what Andrew Lloyd Webber, Trevor Nunn, Jillian Lynn, created from homes, from TSL poems, not a script, poems from TS Eliot. And one of those most remarkable things I will say when I saw Andrew Commentating the 1986 film. 80 6am. I Right? 86 Yes, the movie. Yes, the movie. 98 Thank you. When he was commentating that on on his web channel, there were, there were nuggets of information that he was expressing that I wish I had known, and the creation of certain moments in that play that, as a director, I look back on now, and I go, Oh my God, that's That's brilliant. So they took poems and created what we articulate in our event, a landmark musical which changed the face of musical theater now and forever so and I go back to the day that we did our first rehearsal. And ladies, if you remember this, Bernard Jacobs, who was the president then. The President may rest in peace of the sheward organization said, Welcome to cats. You are all now part of theater history. I'll never forget it. So thank you for allowing us to expand upon something that we celebrate in this event, and I was honored to do and as you can hear, we all were so

[70:23] Speaker 2: and I think that's a beautiful way to end it, is that, you know, the show has been historic. And you know, as easy it is to poke fun at it, it's it's lasted so long because of how how well done it is, and how great it was, and how groundbreaking it was. So I'm excited to see what you have put together. I'm excited for a fundraiser. So I do want to say thank you all again for being here, and just a reminder that you can watch the with love now and forever, cats for COVID Relief fundraiser on Friday, October 23 at 8pm at Broadway Cares that org slash cats benefit, and it'll be running through october 27

[71:04] Speaker 3: Mike, delightful. I mean delightful theater a little too seriously, I think, and how much fun it is to just turn it on its head.

[71:16] Speaker 2: And thank you again, and thanks everyone for listening to this bonus episode on the wrong cat diet, the podcast breakdown, the catastrophe. To follow along. You can subscribe on Apple podcast, Spotify, Stitcher, or anywhere else you listen to podcasts. Follow us on Twitter and Instagram, at the wrong cat died. Or check out our website, the roncat died.com. You.