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[0:00] Speaker 1: Hi, I'm Ariana Grande, Hi, I'm Cynthia Erivo, and you're listening to the Broadway Podcast Network. Visit vpm.fm to discover more.

[0:31] Mike Abrams: the wrong cat died. The podcast breakdown, the cast, atrophy, I'm your host, Mike Abrams, and today we have another amazing guest. She recently finished up touring on the international tour of cats performing as rumble teaser. So welcome Ella camper, thank you for joining me. Hello. Yeah, excited to hear this is an interesting tour, because it was, it's like deem the UK tour, but you were all international, and it was a tour that picked up because it was the one that was canceled during the pandemic. And it seems like this is a lot of stops that were brought back, so I want to hear a little bit about the tour, but before we do that, I always love starting with your history of cats. So what was the first time you saw the show? What was your first experience with it? Was it a while ago? Was it recent? Like, tell me about that? Yeah.

[1:19] Speaker 2: Um, so before, I kind of always knew of how iconic cats was, like memory, like, I always knew of it, and I knew of the musical. I studied it, and in college, we did quite a bit of work on workshops and things. So I definitely knew of, like, how big of a show cats was, and my mum had seen it when it was in London, and she thought it was incredible. But I never actually got chance to see it live, and I'd always watched the like clips on YouTube of like white cat solo, like the iconic cats material, and always looked up to it, even from, like, a young age, I kind of was like, that's incredible that she can just like, keep her leg up there and things, I feel like most people kind of know of, like, watched most of these, or white hat, Like, I think they're the most iconic kind of pieces in the show, as well as memory, obviously. So, yeah, I can't, I knew a lot of cats, but I would never see myself in it.

[2:33] Mike Abrams: Yeah, yeah. So, okay, so it's so interesting because it's a lot of times it's like, I hear answers are usually either the 1998 movie was like, you know, you watch the VHS of it over and over and over again, or, or the scenario like you're saying, which is, everyone kind of knows about it. You have to kind of heard of it, but you didn't really have a chance to see it So had you. You've never saw it full through until you were cast in

[2:58] Speaker 2: it. I had seen both movies, okay, so I'd seen the original one and I'd seen the newer one. I still, I think I was very young when I saw the original, though, and but they're the clips I watched on YouTube, yeah, um, because it's just easy access, like, just Google it, and it's like, you get all these incredible videos, and just watch them for hours. So but yeah, and I feel like cats is so well known, even in people who are in this kind of industry, if you say you're in cats, people like, oh, like everyone kind of knows of what tax is, which is just like crazy to me, yeah,

[3:41] Mike Abrams: so you said that you never envisioned yourself in it. What was that experience like when you auditioned and kind of realized that this is going to be a reality?

[3:53] Speaker 2: Yeah, I kind of when I got the audition through, I was like, really, like, I was like, so excited, and I was like, wow, this is crazy to me, that to be in a room for cats, let alone, like, get the job, like, just to be auditioning for it was crazy. And I was like, wow, this is, this is cool. And we were learning the material in the audition. I was like, this is like, crazy, like, Chris Cartwright is here. So, yeah, it was I definitely never kind of thought before, like, beyond the audition. I never would have caught myself in that. But then the closer and closer I got to doing it, was like, really wanted it, like, I didn't tell any of my friends I was auditioning for it because I put so much pressure on myself for it. I was like, I don't want people to know, and it's like, such a big show, and but then, yeah, it was the whole experience was so it was also so quick, like the whole process. And still, it's crazy to me that I was a cat.

[4:59] Mike Abrams: Yeah, so I want to go to that audition, that audition process, but like the rehearsals and learning the story is one thing I've been overly fascinated with, is what you're told about the story and your characters and the three words, if you get them, and stuff like that. So as someone who's essentially kind of new to cats, besides knowing the main thing, and you're going through this process with a Chrissy Cartwright, what was that experience like for you? And what do you remember of what you were told about, like, the story of cats? Yeah, I

[5:31] Speaker 2: think it was on, like the very first day of even in the auditions you kind of get when you're doing the material you do kind of get the whole like what your intention should be, and like what's going on and what you think about so you kind of have that already just from auditioning. And then on the first day, you kind of we all kind of like, introduce yourselves and say who you're going to play and meet your like, who you're going to be with and spend a year with. Basically, yeah, and then we all kind of went into a room, sat in a big circle, and you get cats, like, just so much information and about the storyline, the like main, like motives of the show, and you get, like, a breakdown of each character. So we got, like, what that part's supposed to be like, and what they're kind of sorry, I'm trying to think of the word like, what their point is, what they give to the story. If that makes, yeah, that took me so long to get but yeah, so you kind of then realize, oh, so she's, like, really, like, with one Paul, I was like, Oh, she's naughty and cheeky. And you get all the little keywords given to you, and it's kind of in yourself, what you choose to do with your words or what you're told. And so we all have it's a lot of improv in cats just to find the character that you want, especially in the first week of rehearsals, it's a lot of trying to figure out what Rumpel would do, or who she'd hang around with who her friends would be and who she'd have connections within the show. And you build on that the more and more that you do the show, it becomes second nature, like you start doing everything with pause or sitting in the most random positions. But yeah, it's definitely you definitely do get given a lot of information at the start, and you get your words or your the key things you want to portray to the audience, and a really in depth kind of breakdown of the show and why things are done, why certain numbers are in there. And it's crazy to think of how it's amazing when they tell you all this information, how much everything has a purpose and a meaning, especially in cats, every movement is thought about, every everything is just perfect. Yeah,

[8:13] Mike Abrams: yeah. I've also felt like the staging is isn't like there's a lot of intent behind, like, where people stand and and so it is. It's one of those shows that you know you get it gets when it gets when it gets criticism, it's ignoring some of that kind of really interesting pieces to it. I want to hear from you, though the you know, you kind of mentioned, what were you told about Rumpel teaser, and then what did you improv as relationships and stuff that you had to add after, like, what did you pick up throughout the year? Yeah.

[8:41] Speaker 2: So I kind of always got, like, the main thing of Rumpel is she's cheeky, she's naughty, she's fun, and little kitten who just likes to cause a bit of trouble. And I do think, I think most people think that Mongo and rumple are siblings, or whether it's a actually not, it's more of a flirty, fun kind of relationship that they have, which I do think some people may think of it as being a sibling relationship, which kind of I get why I did when I first kind of saw it, but then it kind of, yeah, you get given all this, especially when you're learning the number, you get told like, Oh, she's really, like, flirty on this part, or this is supposed to be really cheeky, or this is supposed to be quite cute. Or you do get given like, certain areas where it has to be. You have to portray that because that's what the story is that makes rumples character. But the more that we ran the show as a whole, the more you kind of, you'd be sitting somewhere and be like, Oh, I think, yeah. Well, Rumble would definitely like, I didn't know, have a little cheeky interaction with Bill Bailey at this point. Or. To be a bit cheeky with Mungo, because she always is or Tugger, like we always made Rumple and Tugger very like she adores him, like all the kittens love Tugger, which is the whole little gather around him and scream, which is always like one of my highlights of the show. But, yeah, it's kind of just creating that. And you find that the more you do it, it's and also on sometimes on the most random occasions, like you'll be on a matinee on you'll be like, yeah, like, today she's feeling extra cheeky, so she's gonna, like, go and up to bomb and, you know, just have total new interactions. And that's good with that. You can really think on your feet and just have fun with it. Really.

[10:50] Mike Abrams: I love that because I think that it's a show that doesn't have the normal like this person does this moment at this exact thing. It does have not, like, huge freedom, in the sense of like, I can go and change my my lyrics, or I can go change, like, the dance numbers, but you do have like moments where you can have those interactions, and that's part of what has you know why this podcast is sustained is because that's what I find fascinating about the show is, is that you can tell me that you don't think they're brother and sister, and I have somebody else tell me like they might be related, and that's okay, because you can really play both of them a certain way, and all the other relationships that you can kind of fill in, like, I'm curious to hear, if you think there's a relationship with any of the like, older cats. Like, is there a Jenny, any dots potential relationship? Or is there any relationship to Chris, Bella or Buster for Jones or mccavity. Like, what are those other things that you played off of that you kind of figured out throughout the year?

[11:48] Speaker 2: Um, I don't feel like we had many that weren't already written. I don't think those other relationships. There's always more friendships. Like, a lot of things get missed, maybe from an audience, but when you do it all the time, like skimbles, usually with Jemima protecting her. So there may be, like a relationship there, or that may have just been our cast, but that was how it was kind of set that they mainly be together. And the like the Gumby trio and things like, they always kind of form a relationship, but they are also in the written in the show. I don't think there was any that was, I might have just totally missed them, but I don't think there was any like added ones, but there may have been, might just been sneaky.

[12:39] Mike Abrams: Was there any moment during learning the story or learning the show that you were just like, wait a second, that is part of this, like that you just were very surprised about that you didn't know from watching the YouTube clips.

[12:53] Speaker 2: Um, I think there was a bit, I think while learning my cavity, I never, really don't know why, but I just never thought of that, that I'd be in that number, and I'd see, I'd watch clips of it, but I just never really clicked. And then when it was like, oh, so we're gonna learn my cavity. And then we started dancing, and I was like, oh, like, I was like, Oh my gosh. I didn't, like, prepare for this. But yeah, so I always remember that was a bit of like a shock. And I don't think there was anything else, as before, I did quite a lot of research. Like, wanted to make sure I was going in there, knowing what I was gonna do, getting myself in for

[13:30] Mike Abrams: but yeah, there was a couple for me that I didn't realize. As a spectator watching where it's like, as I've learned the story, I'm like, wait a second, what's going on with the meter? Like, what's this storyline? What's going on here at the ball? Like, I didn't realize that that's what this is. So I always kind of find it fascinating if you're not, like the super fan, or someone that grew up kind of watching it, or even grew up watching as a kid, to where a lot of that stuff would go right over your head intentionally, to all of a sudden, hearing, wait a second, this relationship between macavi and Demeter is what I always found that fascinating. So I'm always curious if anybody walks into your rehearsals, not like fully knowing some of those things and like that almost aha moment of what did I sign up for?

[14:13] Speaker 2: Yeah, I think it's always funny as well when you're rehearsing, but like, we're not in costume, or we're not in anything. So it's like, you see things, you're like, This is crazy, but this is like, there's a quite a few, I remember there was quite a few times it's like, this is my job. Like to sit and watch people, like, do the most crazy things, and especially when it's not in costume. I always remember they'd be like, you become a cat when you've got your costume on like before, because you do, you feel a bit not awkward, but it's a bit like so new to you to be a cat, not looking like a cat. And so, yeah, I do remember thinking this is like, so odd to like, look at sometimes, from like, an outsider's perspective. But, yeah. It was really fun.

[15:01] Mike Abrams: Did you have trouble when you're on tour, of like, I know that talking to a lot of people, you have to kind of pick up the like, cat motions, and you have to kind of do and act certain ways. Do you have trouble turning that on and off between being like, on stage and then when you're out? Did you, like, have some of those mannerisms just creep into your normal life?

[15:18] Speaker 2: I feel like, well, the majority of the tour, and probably still, now, I still do things with, like, pause, because, like, even like waving, it would be like a like, like a royal, like, wave. It was everything was kind of poor like, or like, I just wouldn't use my thumbs, because I would have to, like, drill into like, I always found in rehearsals that was kind of the hardest part was, for me, it was reminding myself that I didn't have hands, I had paws, and like, keeping that so I probably just drilled into myself for so long, so for quite a While in normal daily life, I would like, see myself, and I'd be like, they are poor and and sometimes as well, like, just, I can't, like, sit on the floor without being in a cat position. Now it's just become a bit of second nature

[16:19] Mike Abrams: when you're on this tour. Did you have friends and family that were able to go come see

[16:23] Speaker 2: you? Yeah, I was very lucky. My mom and dad actually came to Zurich on opening night, which was like, great to have them there and see it. And also they hadn't seen any of the rehearsal footage or anything, so they kind of didn't realize what I was doing, really, like they they knew of what my mom could remember. My dad knew what he'd seen and researched and Googled. But I remember after they saw the opening, they were like, I didn't realize you did so much.

[16:58] Mike Abrams: The whole show basically, yeah,

[17:01] Speaker 2: yeah. It's like, non stop. And they Yeah, they loved it. Then they even booked to see it the day after, because they were like, We have to go watch it again. They watched twice then, and then they, my whole family came to the last ever show, which was so special, like my brothers and their partners and my parents again, and also my old dance teacher came with people from my dance school from when I was, like, six. That's amazing.

[17:29] Mike Abrams: Wow, yeah. Did you prep them for the show? Like, I always love to hear as someone who, like, you know, it's an interesting thing to go see, and it's like I was given zero information walking into it, and new memory and nothing else. How much like did you tell them? Was it more focused on here's when you're gonna see me, or did you try to explain some of the story? I never

[17:53] Speaker 2: really explained the story, because I feel like if I did that, they'd be trying to piece it together. I think it's better if you're seeing it totally need to just be open to just taking everything in, like, just to not think of a story, or not just to watch and, like admire, because it's the whole experience. Like, there's cats in the audience and then there's like, Piros, and there's so much going on, it's probably quite overwhelming. So yeah, I kind of just say, like, I say this line in the opening, and then you may have to kind of follow me around the stage for a bit to recognize which one I am, because I always thought there was like me and Lottie, who played Jemima. Quite a lot of people to get us mixed up. So I was like, this one, I say this line, and then you may have to try and find me. And then I obviously said I sang mongrel. But everyone I who came and watched was like, Oh, we knew it was you instantly. So that was kind of good, I think. But yeah, I my dance teacher. I did warn like, I was like, you may, because they were sitting in it was quite a far back theater. It was quite hard to see from their seats. And so I was like, just look out for the number, yeah, and then you'll know what you want. But yeah, and my brothers kind of had no idea of path or no, they're like, they thought it's great,

[19:26] Mike Abrams: yeah, you have the advantage of having there's not many numbers where they're like, I, I kind of joked that the show is a little bit of a sensory overload, and a lot of moments, and then it's Mungo general police. Are just the two of you out there. And so it's like, there's not many moments like that where it's just one cat or two cats, usually, like most of you are on stage. So that's the one where it's a little easier to point being like, Hey, I'm one of the two doing the cart wheels here. I'm early on the two that are. We'll be right back more to some crazy cats conversations after this short break. Like, I would love to go back a little bit to just a tour, because it was a little bit of a different one in the sense that it is, it was only international, and it stopped at some places that have had the, like, a longer standing version of this show. Like, there was, like a German production for a long time that did it in German, but you did an English version through all these stops, right? Yeah. So where was like, your favorite place to go? Where was your favorite stop? How did like, how was that tour of traveling internationally all around Europe.

[20:35] Speaker 2: It was crazy to see everywhere and be everywhere. It was especially after COVID, like, you don't really travel, or I hadn't. I had been on a plane for years, like a very long time, until, like, going to Zurich, which was where we started, and Switzerland, I think is my favorite place that we went to. It's just gorgeous there. And it was so sunny, and we went swimming in the daytime and things it was, yeah, it was gorgeous and but as before, most of it that we did in Germany was during, like, summer, so I think it was August time, and it was very hot there as well. And some days, like you're doing cats, like 35 degrees in Dresden, and it was so hot and sunny. And in the days, it was lovely. But then when we were putting on, like, the cat suits and the neck warmers, and you're like, gosh, it's and doing all the dancing, it was really hot. But, yeah, there was amazing places. Berlin was always somewhere that I wanted to visit, and was lucky enough to travel with cats, to get to go there, and like you can do a lot of sightseeing and all these cities as well. And just really makes you appreciate how amazing the job is, and that you get the experience to do what you love and to travel. It's surreal to be able to do that,

[22:01] Mike Abrams: especially, yeah, and, I mean, and then some, like, really large stages. In a lot of cases, you mentioned that cats are in the crowd. Did you get to do green eyes in the crowd? Yeah, we did. Wow, you got Okay, so the US tour is not doing that still, so I'm glad that the international tours brought that back.

[22:17] Speaker 2: Yeah, we did. I think it may have been a couple of less people, I believe, but there was about, I think it was like four each side, and then we would cross, like, through the audience, and then cross on the stage. There was people walking like Victoria, Bill Bailey, Mister would all come on as well.

[22:34] Mike Abrams: Yeah. Was there any crazy scenarios with that? Because there's, there were some wild stories from the 2016 revival about people being very scared, or like, potentially, I think somebody hit somebody one time. Did you have any of those things bringing that back?

[22:54] Speaker 2: I had a lot of people would scream, like, you'd just like, sneak on and give a little flash of the eyes, and there was a lot of screaming people, oh, the kids always love it. My favorite thing was seeing like the children's faces, like you could just see, like the magic had started from that point. They were, like, so invested from the get go and the adult, but it always makes me laugh, like the adults are the people that are terrified. It's usually like, you get like people's like kids are with their mums, and their mums are the ones that are, like screaming. Or, I'm pretty sure that Harry, as Mungo, had to, like, crawl the whole thing. And I'm pretty sure he got quite a lot of people, almost like getting in his way, or like kicking him or something, because it's so dark and you just see something like fall past you. It's probably, it's probably quite terrifying. Yeah,

[23:52] Mike Abrams: I was not ready for it when I saw the first production I saw, and so it did scare the living daylight enemy. I was thankfully not on an aisle, people, oh yeah, because you know you're especially like, you're not really ready, or your eyes are focused forward too, so you're thinking, like, what's gonna happen on stage, and then something comes from behind you. Well, terrifying, yeah, for sure. I want to pivot to a little bit of rapid fire. So if you could go on for any cat, ignore male female, ignore whether it's in your vocal range or dance number, but if you could go one night on for any cat, which one would you want to perform

[24:34] Speaker 2: this I think I said I kind of, I wouldn't. I'm not a bomb, but I would love to just be a bomb, like, I like Lizzie, who played by the marina, and I was just every night watching the cavity. I was like, You're cool. I'd love to do that. It's just, it's just such a sassy, fun and like character. It's just so different to anything that I've done. So, yeah. I

[25:00] Mike Abrams: kind of love that. As I've asked this question more, it's really fun to hear who wants to do something where it's like, I could totally be that cat, or it's where it's like, that's really not me, but I want to do that one

[25:09] Speaker 2: time. Yeah, yeah, it's so not me, but I'd give it a go.

[25:14] Mike Abrams: Who are your favorite and least favorite cats? Ignoring cast members, just characters, okay,

[25:22] Speaker 2: um, my favorite cat is probably, I love mister. Everyone loves mister, and just watching that every day is incredible. And he's must be so hard, because it's such an intense number. So I love mister, but I also have a space in my heart for skimble. I love skimble, one of my favorite numbers. So, yeah,

[25:48] Mike Abrams: what part did you do in the skimble number? What like when you build the train? Yeah. Where were you on the train? I was

[25:54] Speaker 2: the front wheel, which was like a the top of a pan, like a panel lid. Okay, and it was for that I was just behind Mr. With the

[26:11] Mike Abrams: yeah. What about least favorite?

[26:17] Speaker 2: Can I say the comedy? Yeah. I mean, obviously not Alan who, yeah, but yeah.

[26:29] Mike Abrams: Was there a whoever played bus Gus? Was there an ensemble dancer in the beginning for that character? So

[26:36] Speaker 2: how played Buster and Gus and he don't be

[26:43] Mike Abrams: okay. I'm pretty sure. Was he given a name for that? Was it Peter? No, he's

[26:48] Speaker 2: asparagus, I think, okay, yeah, I'm pretty sure it wasn't Peter. I'm pretty sure it was asparagus, and then it was gusts full on,

[26:57] Mike Abrams: yeah, okay, because that's, that's my answer. Has always been Peter. I was like, I don't think Peters in your show, but that's who Peter is. Yeah,

[27:06] Speaker 2: I think we had a smaller like, I don't think we had a Peter, and we didn't originally have an Elektra. And then a lecture got added in. So it kind of started out quite small, and then we added characters in.

[27:19] Mike Abrams: Awesome. What is your favorite song from the show?

[27:23] Speaker 2: Favorite song I used to, I used to always love watching Gus, because it was so like, the whole story telling was like, perfect in our cast. It was like, so sometimes it was so emotional you had to, like, tell yourself, like, no. The same with memories like no, but yeah, I used to love watching this. That

[27:48] Mike Abrams: is an uncommon answer. Yeah. I mean, I think that people like the number and it's the one of the most common answers for my last question, but it's a lot more of the overture or Macavity or memory and all kinds of other stuff. So I love hearing Gus, because that's just not one that's been said as often.

[28:05] Speaker 2: Yeah, I think it's just, I think where we were placed as well we could actually see it from the audience, like we were kind of angled so we could see it. So, yeah, kind of it wasn't like some cats, like behind us. You can't really see anything going on. I did always like that, but I obviously memory was incredible. And also a bit of music I love. Was the gorilla. I always thought that sounded great.

[28:32] Mike Abrams: Yeah, since you did a European tour, I was like a fun question. So which cat do you think would win Eurovision, if they were an individual performer for Eurovision. What do you think's winning?

[28:43] Speaker 2: I think maybe, maybe Gumby. Gumby, okay, she could do, like, a whole big performance as like, bring out the tap shoes, have some really cool backing dances behind her. Yeah, I didn't think about things some really cool riffs, and I just feel like she'd make it fun.

[29:13] Mike Abrams: That's interesting, because I thought about this a totally different way. I just thought about what performance would be like, like number would be the most interesting. And I kind of thought Tugger feels very rock star ish, which would work there. But now that you're saying about like, oh, we have the background dancers we can tap with this skim bowl might be interesting, because you could put the whole, like, stage building of a train and everything together.

[29:35] Speaker 2: Interesting. I do think Tucker would be great, though, too. There's

[29:40] Mike Abrams: a lot. I think the J ripple, teaser numbers fun would be in there. I think Mustafa is obviously with the dance would be there. I kind of eliminated a few. I was like, white cat's probably too quiet and slow for it. But yeah, and

[29:58] Mike Abrams: Okay. Now some. Most important question, I have argued at length that I don't think Grizabella is the right Jellicle choice. So do you want to defend Grizabella, or do you want to pick a different cat to send to the heavy scent

[30:09] Speaker 2: layer? I think I have to defend Grizabella. Okay, tell me why. I just think that is the story. I know that's quite a basic common answer. But I also just think I always remember being told when we were learning the show of how, because I know like memory touches so many people. People used to message me from after coming to see the show, being like memory was so emotional and like I really and I remember being told in rehearsals that even children really who have, or anyone who's kind of been felt like, maybe a bit lonely or like has had a difficult journey, but maybe, or anyone who's can really just relate to Isabella. And that is also not just adults and children do as well. And you just see how much that her being chosen really makes the story, like have such a big impact on some people, and like hearing people's views and stories on that, I just don't think it could be anyone else. It has to be her. It's interesting.

[31:20] Mike Abrams: To say that, because I what I'm hearing you say, is actually a big reason of why I don't think she is the choice, which is for the exact same reasons, which is that, like, she's got this beautiful number, and she's being accepted back into her family, and she's like, having her redemption story. And I find it weird to immediately then kill

[31:41] Mike Abrams: barely side lay it, I know. But like better, why can't she spend one year with the family and go next year?

[31:50] Speaker 2: Okay, yeah, okay, yeah, I do see that, but I just think that she, she's always she wanted to, this was her time, but she old jute knows that she is gonna be better in the heavy side layer. He's trying to help her. He's really, you know, she's been wanting this for so long, and now it's her time. She's got what she wanted. She's gone. She's gone for a reason, and yeah, so she's got it. Let

[32:17] Mike Abrams: me ask you this question, what is old dude? What's all Deuteronomy criteria, like, how does he decide every year, who goes does it change every year? Is it different? Is it the same every year?

[32:31] Speaker 2: I think, I think he probably goes through the year and just thinks of, takes, notices, all the little things. So he's like, yeah, they are not right this year. It's like, Father, Christmas. He's like, making a list naughty night, yeah, like, Mongo definitely not because they've been stealing things and they're young and they don't need to. And then he's seeing the pain and the loneliness and all the things that quiz has gone through, and we see that as well from an audience, and then it's like, yeah, she she deserves that. She's the person this this year that she I'm choosing her. She's yeah on the night. Okay, so then if next year

[33:17] Mike Abrams: she goes this year, does someone have to have that like crazy pain next year to be chosen? I don't think so. Okay, so it's gonna change. I think

[33:26] Speaker 2: next year, maybe it's Gus. Maybe it's this time next year. Did

[33:29] Mike Abrams: you ever talk about who's next year and who was even last year as a cast? I didn't think we

[33:35] Speaker 2: did. I think there might have been a of I think, you know, I think a lot of people like it should be Gus really at this point, and I think probably we did say in the future, but I don't really remember there ever being a conversation about, you know, who has previously been,

[33:53] Mike Abrams: just me that thinks about these things? Okay, got it. They may, they may have been.

[33:57] Speaker 2: They really could have been. Sometimes I might have just been in my own little world. Yeah. Okay,

[34:04] Mike Abrams: so you're so your argument is that she, like, this is all she's coming back for. So she needs this, and she's here for that moment, and this, I mean, I'm not gonna argue the song is powerful, so there's no arguments there. Yeah, I just find it weird that, like the whole song is about except being accepted back to family. And it's like, cool. Thank you for accepting me. Now let me go.

[34:27] Speaker 2: But I think we're all accepting like, after the song, and after, when we all go to Greece, and we, you know, pass her in our version, we'll pass her down the line, and we'd like send her up in all this choreography. And it was so, like powerful, and it was in a such a positive way that she was, she probably felt the family as we would before she went. And then she thought, yeah, this is what I've been waiting for. This is my time. And she's probably just happy to go, to be honest.

[34:59] Mike Abrams: Yeah. I, I still struggle with it. I struggle with it a lot, because I, I get it. I understand the argument. I've never not understood the argument. Obviously, the show has been running for 40 plus years, but I kind of look at it as like a, let's let her spend one year like be mom again to the many cats. I think she's actually the mother of and get to spend that time and then go next year

[35:31] Mike Abrams: good. That's all I'm trying to do. I'm just using this to try to convince people that I'm right. And Andrew, but I appreciate it. This has been super fun. Thank you so much for coming on and telling a little bit about your tour and about your experience. How can people stay in touch with

[35:48] Speaker 2: you? My I mainly just kind of post on Instagram. That's kind of the only thing that I platform I really use, which is with two ways dot camp, okay,

[36:02] Mike Abrams: we will also link it, and we'll have everyone follow along. Yeah, trying to build multiple social media platforms is is TD, but this has been so fun. Thank you so much for coming on. Thank you for having me. It's been great. And thanks everyone else for listening to this episode of the wrong cat died the wrong cat died the podcast breakdown the cat Satra fee to follow along. You can subscribe on Apple podcast, Spotify, Stitcher, or anywhere else you listen to the podcast. Follow us on Twitter, Instagram and tick tock at the wrong cat diet, or check our website, the rock cat diet. You