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[0:00] Speaker 1: Hi, I'm Ariana Grande, Hi, I'm Cynthia ARIBO, and you're listening to the Broadway Podcast Network. Visit vpn.fm, to discover more.

[0:13] Speaker 2: There's a cat over here. There's a cat over there. I'm the wrong one died. I'm the wrong one died. Welcome to the

[0:30] Mike Abrams: wrong cat died. The podcast breakdown, the catastrophe. I'm your host, Mike Abrams, and today we have another amazing guest. You might have seen her on Tiktok, but she just recently finished up performing as Bombay Arena in the city springs Theater Company regional production of Cats this past May in Atlanta. So welcome. Maggie McCown, thank you for joining

[0:47] Speaker 3: me. Hi. I'm so glad to be here. Thanks for having me. I have been a fan

[0:51] Mike Abrams: of your I knew about you because of Tiktok, and I've been a fan of yours from before. And then this cast I saw because of Caitlin, who was a former guest of mine. And then also I started looking, I'm like, wait a second, there's a lot of people I've talked to, a lot of people I've seen on, you know, Theater Talk type of thing. And I was super excited, because it seems like an unbelievable production that you all got to put on.

[1:12] Speaker 3: Yeah, for sure. That's so funny. So you saw like me posting about A Chorus Line,

[1:17] Mike Abrams: A Chorus Line, and all kinds of stuff. My tick tock is now, like, I have, it's a weird tick tock because it's for the podcast, but it's also me, only me using it the podcast of one it's just me, right? So it's got a little mix of like, it's got some of the support stuff I like, all of a sudden, thrown in there. The algorithm has picked up the theater stuff and the stuff that I enjoy. But it's fun to see, because there's a lot of like, of the Theater Talk has a lot of really great content creators and

[1:45] Speaker 3: really cool community. Honestly, I've really loved I kind of started it just because I was bored backstage, and I really found a lot of amazing people and found this really cool community on Tiktok Theater Talk, yeah,

[1:58] Mike Abrams: I love it. So let's start though, start at the beginning. You like, you get cats and cats. How much cats knowledge did you have going in? When was the first time you saw it?

[2:07] Speaker 3: Yeah, so kind of like a lot of people, I grew up watching the VHS. I distinctly remember, like, every time I, like, had to stay home sick from school, my mom would put on cats. I don't know. I guess you just like, you like dancing. I'll throw this on because I remember being like, in my parents bed sick and watching cats. But other than that, I didn't know any of their names. Even before I auditioned, I was like, Who sings Macavity? Like, which cat is? Like, I didn't know that. I was like, I was like, Oh, the white cat is beautiful. But I really didn't have much knowledge about it. I was very like, everything about A Chorus Line, backwards and forwards. But when I would talk to like cats fans, I'd be like, I don't know about that world at all. And now I'm so deep in that world, and I love cats so much, so I can't now. I can't imagine not knowing about it at all. But yeah, I really didn't have too much of a knowledge about it. So

[3:03] Mike Abrams: I love that you that was your for me, it was like Tommy Boy, and the price is right, when I was sick, and then you got cats. So you watched it a bunch, but you did, but it was just like, almost a while, you're kind of barely keeping your eyes open sick, so you're not fully following it. Were you more interested in the dance section of it, or will the story part of it? Like, what was that for you as a kid

[3:24] Speaker 3: dancing? For sure. I grew up mostly doing ballet, so I loved seeing all the technique and the legs and the athleticism of it all and like, obviously, like most young girls, was like, I want to be the white cat. Didn't even know her name, didn't know, like, her story, or what she signified at all, but I was like, Oh, beautiful. And, yeah, there wasn't too many shows I watched that it was like the dancers were the the leads, like the it was an ensemble day show full of amazing dancers. So I think that was inspiring to me as a young girl. I didn't know what's

[4:04] Mike Abrams: going on, though. Yeah, now, so Okay, so you did you so you had not seen it since the movie to being cast.

[4:13] Speaker 3: Yeah, I saw one regional production of it. And cool, like, I wasn't, like, dying to

[4:21] Mike Abrams: be in it. I love it. So you just, like, you walked in, I was like, Oh, this is fun, and then you walked out and didn't think about it again. Yeah, that was essentially my life, the first time I made a joke about it, and then I didn't think about it again until I made the joke that led to this podcast. And so it's like, the same thing as like, Oh, that's interesting. And then you walk out and kind of forget about it, and now it's a huge part of your life. Mm, hmm. For sure. Okay, so have you now that you're in, I want to ask this before we get into your particular production, because I have not seen the chorus line because I'm, again, not that knowledgeable theater. You can see all the sports behind me. Everyone talks about the parallels between cats and the chorus line. Do you see it?

[4:59] Speaker 3: I do, I do. And it's, it's interesting, working with by our Glee on the production, she is the reason why I showed up. I was like, by Eric's doing cats, and I'll go over by her one sweet and go, like, I'd follow her to the ends of the earth. Um, and she tells us this story, and she they posted this in social media. So I know I'm allowed to share this, but that when A Chorus Line came out, it was, you know, really revolutionary. Again, that same kind of concept of the triple threats, and you're very rigorously trained to be in a chorus line and do do this long dance show. It's kind of a marathon. You're on stage the whole time, right? So after chorus line opened, shortly after cats auditions are coming around, and Jillian wanted all the chorus line dancers interesting. So Bay arc and Michael were like, like, we trained them like. So Bayer calls. I can't speak for Michael, but Bayer, except I'll never do a production of Cats. Like she's joking. But she's like, I know, like, you know, we trained those dancers, and then they, they stole them from us. So she said, I'm never gonna do a production of Cats. And then she goes, and here I am. So I guess all these years now and then she posted a video. I was like, Michael's just laughing at me when we put like, cat makeup on her. So yeah, that's been funny, seeing that very personal experience with her. As far as the story goes, I see it to a degree, like, maybe the concept of like they're all auditioning, like they're we're just meeting or getting to know all of these different characters, and they're auditioning for a part, but I don't see that is that is very clearly the story of a chorus line. But I don't see that as much so in in cats, I don't view us as auditioning for to be the Jellicle choice. I view it more of a celebration of the all these different characters.

[6:59] Mike Abrams: Yeah, it's interesting. It depends on how you look at that aspect of the plot. Because you're right that there is the like, you get introduced, introduce, introduces. Someone called it six, as well as like, you know, you just you meet, one after one after one after one. But you're right that there is one camp that's more of a like, well, these people aren't even eligible to be the Jellicle choice. And there's other groups that are like, like, my initial thought was, like, this is the X Factor. What's this version of this? Who's gonna be picked? And I just assume anybody who's had a song was a choice, the choice, right? And so it is, like, it depends on how you examine it, which is very interesting.

[7:36] Speaker 3: And there could be some parallels between, like, Cassie and maybe Grizabella, like singing about, give me a second chance? Like, maybe their their time in the spotlight has come to an end, and now they're dying for another chance. So that could kind of be where people see that parallel, and I could see that. I think that's that could be kind of cool. So

[7:56] Mike Abrams: let's fast forward. How did you end up in this particular production? Like, what was the rehearsal process like? What was the like decision to go and take on this challenge? Yeah,

[8:07] Speaker 3: so kind of all goes back to A Chorus Line. I did a chorus line about a year ago with Bay orc, and then worked on the show pretty much for a year, and so I developed that relationship with her. And then now, and I saw she was doing cats, so it was like, well, and I'm from Atlanta too, so I live in New York City now, but I'm from Atlanta. So it was like, at my home theater Bay arc is doing this iconic dance show. I didn't know which cat I'd be right for, but I knew I wanted to be involved. So yeah, I started doing research and really fell in love with the character of bone Valley arena. I kind of got my heart set on her, which I don't normally do. I normally like to just be like, okay, wherever I end up, it's where I end up, because I don't want to set myself up for disappointment. But I was like, Man, this role is good for me, like, I love this part. So I submitted virtually, and then I got a call back, but I was actually unable to come, like, I would have to fly to Atlanta. And they were like, We don't want people like flying from out of town. We'll send you tapes if we need them. So they had me read for Demeter and bomb and and I love Demeter but, and I've gone into for Demeter before, but I was like, I really love bomb and, yeah, then I was offered the part from the tape actually, which is pretty rare, but I, I think because I've been able to work with them so much. They knew my work ethic and what I was capable of. They knew my dancing. So yeah, it was a pretty easy process, actually, which is, I guess, very rare. But yeah,

[9:51] Mike Abrams: so I love hearing the thing I love most about regional productions is and having talked to so many different productions around the world at this point, and. Is, I'm fascinated by what you get told as a backstory. And, you know, it's like, one thing, when you're going on tour, you're going for months, if not years, at a time, to have, like, this long, lengthy rehearsal process, but you're going for three to four weeks, right? Is the run? What I saw you had Jacob Brent come like, what was like, how much into the story, do you get versus the dance number and the choreography and the songs and like, like, what does that balance look like to prep for a show like this? Yeah, we

[10:30] Speaker 3: kind of worked in reverse. Normally, you start a show with table work, you sit down, and we just discuss and discuss and discuss and look at the text and the characters, and then we put the show up on its feet. But it was such a short rehearsal process, and we only had a limited time with Jacob front who was just, I know you've had him on the podcast. He's phenomenal. He's a legend, a legend, yeah. So that was just Oh, to be in the room with both by arc, and Jacob was just such a dream. Um, yeah. So we only had a week with him, so he came in and kind of hit the ground running, and was like, let's do the whole ball. And as much as the ball, as we can do in one day, we end up putting in the putting up the ball in two days. And we did all the original choreography within this one week. So that was really, really wild and exhausting, but also really exhilarating and inspiring at the same time, especially learning that choreography from him, who did it with Jillian, was in the room when these story was kind of being created. So we did Table Table work. We, like, got in a circle and talked about our characters after we've learned most of the show. So that was interesting, because the show then it was set, but then it kind of took on this new life. The day after, we went in a circle and we all discussed our Well, Jacob went around and told us, like, kind of basis of who we were, and then a couple days later, we we went around and shared our story, even the, you know, the kittens shared their story that that's, you know, not been pre decided, but we all were in charge of creating, like, this very elaborate backstory for ourselves and the show then took on this new life, and We had all these new interactions. And, you know, I found out like, oh, this cat is in love with me, or this cat hates me. And so it really informed a lot of our decisions. And so much of the show, unlike A Chorus Line, chorus line is you get on your number and you move from three and a half to four and a half to with cats. There's so many transition moments where we get to decide, even in the original choreography, we get to decide, like, our traffic patterns and our interactions. And so that was really cool to add those character choices in. Yeah,

[12:51] Mike Abrams: that's really interesting to hear the reverse. Because, you know, one of the things that I've Jacob's been the first where I'm like, Well, I can't really argue against Jacob on like, what I've heard from other people, but you hear these different things. And, like, even recently, I, you know, I posted a joke on Twitter, and somebody, a fan, immediately responded, and it was about bomb and demeanor, and it was like, they were, like, they're sisters. I'm like, Are they sisters? Because I've heard their sisters. I've heard they're not. I've heard their, you know, like that, their BFF and everything. So I posted on Instagram, and I got about a 5050, split, but every cast member that I've interviewed was on the not sisters camp, which I thought was interesting. But it's like, there's so many of these things that are open for interpretation and you can play, but I think a lot of what comes from that is staging and friendships, you know off stage. And so it's interesting to hear that you started with the staging. So when you had that almost predetermined, I knew where I was going to be and who I was going to be standing next, and obviously, or I may be dancing with, did that influence when you wrote your own backstory? Oh

[13:57] Speaker 3: yeah, for sure. I want to get your back story like I was like, Oh, I'm, I hang out with Alonzo a lot. I must be friends with Alan, you know, either that staging absolutely predetermined some of my character. Okay, my backstory bombs backstory, yep. So what I was told is that I'm, I am, like, best friends at Demeter. We're not sisters. As far as I knew, that I had some sort of relationship with Macavity, and I'm very protective of Demeter now, and that I used to be like besties with Grizabella, and that's something I did not know, and and that I kind of am flirty with Rum Tum Tugger, that's, that's what I was given. Like, this is pre determined, but, oh, if we really ran with this, like we really created these, like me and the actor who played Demeter, would be on the phone, like, on the car ride home, being like, okay, so then the eye came over, and then the cavity, like, we had this elaborate story. I. But the abbreviated version is that bomb. She's very independent. She doesn't need a title, doesn't need a man. Likes being the cat that's people look up to and find powerful and maybe a little intimidating. And she's like, very comfortable with her sexuality and very independent. So about three I decided, about three years before the Jellicle Ball takes place, bomb was famous independent lady when she met Macavity. And we think of Macavity as this scary the scary cat in a fight. But actually, from the text, we know he's deceitful and he's suave, and what he's outwardly respectable. So we think that that form that we see him in in the show is not That's not how you normally see him. That's scary my cavity. But normally he's taking on these disguises, and he's really attractive and he's really suave. So he sweeps bomb off her feet. She's kind of into the bad boy vibe. And then she starts to see that he's involved with crime and kind of running this a lot, these elaborate cons, and he wants to use her in these cons, like, kind of in a shady way, and I don't want to be a part of that. I'm, like, I thought you cared about me. I don't want to be I don't want you to use me in your schemes. So I leave him, um, around the same time. This is when Grizabella and monk are together and Grizz leaves monkey strap, and I decided that Macavity kind of convinces me that him and Grizabella got together. I think that. I'm not sure if that's true, but he deceives me into thinking that. Um, so then flash forward, three years later, I've heard the stories about Grizabella now out on the streets, you know, being a cat about town, and I know she's involved with Macavity. And I think, wow, here's a cat that I'm strong enough to say, No, I didn't get involved in the shady things he wanted me to do. And she she did, she does. She gets involved with him and gets involved in that life of crime and just a shady world. So I think for bum, that's why I'm really looking down on her. And I also feel betrayed, because as far as I'm concerned, like she got with my man. Yeah, is

[17:40] Mike Abrams: that I so I'm trying to think, piece together, because there is a part of me that always thought that grisabelle could have been mom's mom, and that could be part of it, but I like the like, friend, older sister, ish vibe, maybe not the actual relation, but yeah,

[17:55] Speaker 3: Jacob told me that we used to be at least like we used I don't know if we're the exact same age, I think she's a little older than me, but that she, we used to be very good friends, and Demeter was now, demeters, like, took her place in my life.

[18:10] Mike Abrams: Got it, yeah? And so, okay, so that makes sense. And so you're like, yeah, she, she betrayed you. She's also a little, I've heard a little fear that, like, that could be the path you could go down if you're not careful, but you, yeah, you've stayed away Absolutely.

[18:24] Speaker 3: And that's the same, same with Demeter. Like, Demeter then, so she's supposed to, like, kind of tell me in the first act, one time she just looked at we were trying to decide, like, she's just gotten back from this scary schnapps with mccavi. And when does she tell me? When do, when do I find out that she's been with him? Because something else is that monkey strap, and I don't speak about him or Grizz. So that's why I could rationalize, why am I so protective over Demeter? But I'm, you know, ruthless towards Bella. Is that Demeter didn't know my past with Macavity, so then when she tells me, I'm like, girl like, Oh my gosh. Like, I'm so glad you got out, this is what could have happened. And so then Demeter and I are looking at Grizabella with such different eyes. Me being like, you should have gotten out. You should have known better. And Demeter being like, wow, this could have been me if I had stayed in the end, I think we all were victims of Macavity, but kind of have different journeys the way we like, find that forgiveness for ourselves and for him and for each other. Have you

[19:34] Mike Abrams: had that moment with your demeanor before you sing the incredibly sexual song about Macavity? Yes,

[19:40] Speaker 3: yes. In the first act, she tells me, and one, one day we were doing we were about to do Gumby cat, and she looks over me. Was like I was kidnapped by my cavity. I didn't know what to do when the days, I did not know what to do with that information. Yeah. And then finding, finding how we rationalize why Macavity is so sensual is like, I think that duality of he's so bad, but he's so suave and deceitful at the same time, and kind of like that, you know, remembering those days, and maybe you got involved with a bad boy like he, I know he was bad for me, but like, wow, he was a charmer. Like, yeah,

[20:24] Mike Abrams: it's, there's been a couple people that basically said that bomb and demeanor had the same experience, but bomb liked in Demeter didn't essentially like and that's kind of a very dark way, I think, to think about it's, it's, honestly, that this is the storyline I have the most trouble with as just like a viewer from the outside, because I'm always like, every time I go see the show, there's kids everywhere you watch it when you're home sick. And I'm like, the one thing that everyone has said is true. Demeter was sexually abused by the cavity. Like, that's the one truth that we know. And I'm like, How is this art? Like, this is a full storyline, and granted, it goes over everyone's head because you don't notice it, and most people pick up on it, but it's so dark. It's like a very dark

[21:04] Speaker 3: really is. And honestly, in our production, we really didn't want to lean into that too much, because it's just a lot for an actor to walk around playing trauma and playing you. So we kind of played that both of us were in scenarios where we felt icky and uncomfortable, but we aren't playing like, playing the sexual more, playing like this is what could have happened. Yes, so we don't have to kind of walk around with that. Macavity feels way grosser when you play it like, like that. I don't know, to me, it was harder to

[21:39] Mike Abrams: the Macavity song. I still the line that he's broken every human law. I'm like, That is a very that has a lot of things. It could be. And that's like, let's just part of it like that, yeah, if you think about breaking every human law, like, I made a joke the other day on Twitter because someone had a cat helmet. And I'm like, well, he probably, you mean, he broke everything well, so he's, he was speeding, like, you know, so it's like, it can be harmless, like that, but it also can go the other way. That's what

[22:05] Speaker 3: we were kind of playing, like, our Demeter thinks, like, he like, drugged her at a party and like, like, then try to play that he was, like, protecting her. I was like, oh, some other cat was coming on to you, and I just took you away because I'm trying to protect you. Like, yeah, I don't know how this, like, kind of twisted, yeah.

[22:25] Mike Abrams: Did any cast of your cast mates come up with something just like, way out of left field when you were hearing the stories?

[22:31] Speaker 3: Um, yes, uh, our Macavity has this whole story that he is dead.

[22:43] Speaker 3: talking about, like, necromancy. It was very, I was very interesting, um, but we all like, oh, like, I still don't really know what he was getting at, but it was very, it was very elaborate, about, like, he has already died. Oh, in that he's ageless. What other stories were there? A lot of them were dark, not not dark, just like heavy, like a lot of cats that came from hard, difficult homes and now feel like they have a sense of belonging in the Jellicle Tribe, like they were we all brought to the table these, like, you know, dark, deep stories. I was like, wow. People say, cat says, no plot. I'm like, you're

[23:24] Mike Abrams: giving that though, like, that is the baseline for a lot of it. Like, there's only five, I think, that have collars, which means that most of them are, like, and it's very cultish. And so, like, you have a lot it is, if you, like, really dig in. A lot of them have these dark back stories to begin with, which is, again, why I don't think children should see the show, but it's, it is like a it's interesting, because there's just so much emptiness, like it's a world that's been created with a few 400% this happens, or we know these things are building up, and then a lot that's just unsaid that leaves a lot of interpretation, which is where it becomes so interesting, and why I still have this podcast going is because there are a lot of different like, ways you could answer this question, and there really isn't a right or wrong in most of them, because I think some of the questions I even ask are things that never came up in the beginning. Like, it's not stuff that was discussed, and, like, some of it was, I'm sure, discussed in the original production. And I know in 2016 they thought about stuff. Hearing you all come up with your own, like, circle of stories, like you are creating this, but there isn't necessarily a right or wrong answer to most of it. Like there is some kind of gray area that this, this world has built, which is what makes it, I think, unique, and I think it's why there's so many fans, like a very diverse set of fans, to show because there's probably something in you or yourself that you can see in one of the characters or part of the plot that allows you to to relate to it,

[24:51] Speaker 3: right? Like I saw on some fan page, that there's a theory that bomb is Dick away. Cat because I sing the line about where you whittington's friend, and I was just as like, who is who is at home? Being like, Hmm, I wonder. And then Gus sings about Dick whitting to understudying dick whittington's cat. So everyone looks at me during that moment. I was like, yeah, it just, it just crazy and honestly, endless backstories, or who's related to who? Like, we've all created these interesting relations. It's, it's really fascinating. I totally get why people go down in these rabbit holes theorizing, yeah,

[25:31] Mike Abrams: is there any any relationships that you your cast, created that maybe would be different? I like, what I love is there's a group of people that are, especially with the original production, where they're like, this is the way it is, and nobody can tell me otherwise. And there's people like me who are like, Yeah, of course they could be together. Like, I could sell you on why this person and this? Like, I had a love triangle between Grizabella jelly and Buster for Jones. And everyone's like, wait, what? I think it's open. But what did you all create? Um,

[26:01] Speaker 3: there's, really, are so many. I can mostly just remember my own pouncival is, like, in love with me. At sweet, well, he's like, oh, like, hey. And I just like, I mean, he's a child to me, I'm like, hi, so, like, after I get rejected by Tucker, he's like, like, he's like, I'll be with you. Yeah, so that's cute. And then there's also theories that I'm still above mother, and we're not quite sure who the father is. Could be Rum Tum Tugger, but our Tugger is like, No, I'm not the dad. So we're not quite sure. I'm trying to think Shelly Lorem and skimble shanks are kind of a thing in our production, okay, um, yeah, I don't know. I can't think of any, any others off the top of my head, but we are that the theory that Victoria is grizabella's mother, or Isabella is yes, he's asked another.

[27:00] Mike Abrams: That's another very 5050, thing interesting,

[27:02] Speaker 3: or that, you know, who were the children of Deuteronomy? Are we all the children of Deuteronomy? Or is it just 99

[27:13] Mike Abrams: lives? So there's a, there's a good chance there, there's, yeah, I mean, again, this just very open. I've had people send me what their version of the family tree is. I've attempted to build one myself, and it's impossible. So much because, and then, you know, it goes back to what Angela Emerson was just, they're just cats, and cats just exactly frolic around, and which means that they're probably a lot together, a lot, which is, yeah, and you know, you have a celebration of that with a ball, yep,

[27:48] Mike Abrams: One thing I do want to ask about is I did hear a couple people use this podcast to, like, hear some how other people approach their their characters. Is that true?

[27:58] Speaker 3: Oh, listening to the podcast? Yeah. I listened to a couple episodes, I was like, I want to hear what other bombs or other people have said about their characters. Yeah, that's why? Yeah, absolutely. Why not? For sure,

[28:11] Mike Abrams: that's so that's so cool. I mean, it's cool for me because it's, like, always been my joke, of like, all right, I'm ready to direct one. And then it's like, no, you have Jacob Brent coming, like, you have someone who really knows what they're doing, but, but it's, it's been fun to hear that, like people like are using this to hear how other people have interpreted their cat, which is what's so fun about this is that it's like, basically a record of at least a thought process from it. Well, it's

[28:35] Speaker 3: so fascinating when you meet someone else who's as passionate about cats as you are, because so many people don't get it. They're like, Oh, it's cool. That's That's awesome. Like, there's such the dancing was so great, and that's all that they're like, the dancing and singing was awesome. They don't see anything else. But when you meet other people that are like, so which cat do you sit like? You get to theorize about these things. That's so exciting. So I think this podcast gives you, you know, an opportunity to get into other people's brains who are just as passionate about as you are.

[29:04] Mike Abrams: Yeah, it's, it's fun for me, because, like, I, you know, I live in New York, and this is not my full time job. I watch a lot of sports like this. I don't live in the theater world, besides being part of this podcast network and attending like and going, I can't dance, I can't sing, and I didn't grow up, I played one thing in my entire life as a kid growing up because I played very high level travel hockey, so I was like, never in the shows as a kid. Like, I live the opposite life, and now I'm in this place where I kind of, like, if someone it doesn't come up, like, right away. I'm not like, let me tell you about my podcast type of thing. But every once in a while, someone's like, yeah, I just saw cats. I'm like, what'd you think? And then it's like, a very strange, weird. Like, I know a whole lot about it for a very, very, very weird reason. And it becomes fascinating when you get somebody who is in that world and that thought process, like, Oh no, I like, I grew up with it. I love it. I knew it and and the, like, I know the plot. And that's mostly I know the plot in the backstories in the world. And not the choreography and the original, the differences and all that stuff, but it's fun to be it's fun to meet the people and talk to so many different people have done it, because there's so many versions of this over the years, and there's been some productions I like, wish I could go back in time and see or just hear, and now it's like, no, that was, you know, it was like a moment in time. We're gonna take a quick break for some messages from our sponsors, and then we'll be back for more of the wrong cat died. Let's talk about cats tick tock and theater tick tock, because I've seen a lot of what you've done. I keep reposting all of them. I firmly believe that everyone and doing a cats production has the best built in content creation possible, because you can do transitions. You've got, like, these weird, unique type of things that's that's very eye catching. And so it's like, I just love that you have this platform and got the opportunity to kind of go and take this very strange, weird thing and kind of bring it to the Tiktok world, where it's built for

[31:02] Speaker 3: it. So I initially got involved with posting on Tiktok because I was a fully off stage swing and a course line had a very small role at a lot of time to kill. So I was like, this is a great time to start making content backstage. I had all this time in my hand, all these actors, you know, readily available to me, and I found it kind of fell into this theater Tiktok world, and really enjoyed it, actually. So now posting with cats, I've been like, oh, I have all this content to post about and these back stories, but I don't have nearly as much time, because I'm on stage the whole time. Yeah, so it's, it's easier because I have all this con, all these backstories we've been talking about and inside jokes. Almost, I always when I post, like a tick tock about the has some cat inside joke. I'm like, I know this might not do super well on Tiktok, but I know the people that get it are gonna think it's really funny. Yeah, it's the right audience. Yeah, absolutely, absolutely, might not go viral, but, you know, it's gonna the people that get it get it. So, yeah. So it's really, really fun, but it's also hard, because I'm, I finished the show, you know, we spent, I have to spend an hour, an hour plus getting into costume and then thoroughly warming up. And then we're, you know, we're ripping off like our the wig is really elaborate, and that makeup is really elaborate, everything we're all like using coconut oil to get our faces off really quickly. So I'm like, wait before you use that coconut oil on your face. Could I get a video of you saying this boofy thing? So it's been really, really fun, but also posed a challenge, because it's, you know, such a difficult show.

[32:54] Mike Abrams: Yeah, I saw so I was, I got to hang out with the the US tour number six, someone that's like, that's currently on tour, before their show, before one of them, because we did stuff, you know, for for video. And I was like, I want to do this all in costume if it can. And it's like, the leading up to it, it's like, once you get in costume, it's like, stretch, warm up, get ready to go, and then go on stage. Like, there's not a lot of time. But yes, I think you have an opportunity if you, if you can just get a couple people to go on to start your makeup, like 10 minutes earlier, right? The transitions that you can do right, and tick tock thrives on those of starting just in normal clothes and then doing the whatever you cover your your camera with to then all of a sudden, be in full cat is just such good content. Most people don't get the chance to do so to do those while you still I know you still have a little time left. I know this is coming out way after but hopefully we see some of these. I want you to do that. And then all the dance trends in cat costume. Just people notice them are so much more fun.

[34:02] Speaker 3: Yeah, you're so right. They're hilarious. Yeah, absolutely are so eye catching the wigs and the makeup. And what's been really funny with the the wigs and the makeup is going out to dinner on our two show days in between. I know I posted a tick tock about this, like we're not gonna, we're not gonna redo our whole face in between shows, so we'll go out to rush a restaurant and just be in full cat makeup. And one day we went out, and his mother and daughter were looking at us, and the mom went, scary, right? She didn't, she didn't acknowledge us and say anything, just scary, right? I just,

[34:44] Mike Abrams: I just love the fact that like it. I think it's one, like, it's all different living here in New York than like, I'm from Indiana, from Atlanta. Like, it's not like, I feel like, if I walked out, I would now, I know, but if you would have done this 10 years ago, and I would have walked in and saw a bunch of people in cap costs, and I've been like, is there a. Furry convention going on. Like, I'm not sure I would have, would have registered musical right away of that, because I didn't grow up watching the 1998 movie to be like, Oh, that's most awfully it's like, apparently

[35:09] Speaker 3: there was a furry convention like our opening weekend

[35:17] Speaker 3: Someone is like, they're just gonna assume that's what we're doing. Yeah. And we're all like, cool, cool, yeah.

[35:22] Mike Abrams: I mean, it's a thing. It's a I've I have run into, I was at a conference for work one time, and we had the same hotel as one of those conventions, and it was the first day just jarring, because I got an elevator and I was not prepared to be with people in full costume. And then second day, I'm just like, Yeah, whatever. This is their this is their thing. Like, they were nice and, but, like, they were super polite and, but I was just like, that's fine. More power to you, if it's as long as you're, you know, just it's been on war conferences. I'm just like, as long as you're quiet and not, you know, causing too much trouble while we're just trying to do what we have to do there for work. I was like, right? More power. It's just funny.

[36:02] Speaker 3: We're like, Yeah, we're actually professional dancers, and this is our job. But yeah, yeah, we're just playing dress up, right?

[36:09] Mike Abrams: I love it. Okay, let's do some rapid fire. Great, great. If you could go on, I know you said that bomb ballerina was like a dream role, but if you could go on for any single cat, whether it's male, female, whether it's in your vocal range, on your vocal range, just for one night. Who would you want to perform as, ooh, Grizabella

[36:33] Speaker 4: You're 15 minutes on stage. You don't have to wear

[36:37] Speaker 3: a unitard, like skin tight. You just get to wear a cloak, and then you get the loudest applause of everyone. So

[36:46] Mike Abrams: okay, who are your favorite and least favorite cats?

[36:50] Speaker 3: Ooh, huh? Well, having said that, honestly, grizabell is one of my least favorite cats.

[36:57] Mike Abrams: That's great for my last question. Yeah, I'm, I don't

[37:01] Speaker 3: know. Well, I know you're gonna ask me, and I'm really, I'm really dreading the question. But I think Grace is a little manipulative, at least in our production, She's admitted that, that she like, shows up late, she is very dramatic. She falls to the ground and and obviously, for you know, personal bond reasons, she's betrayed me. Um, so I don't love Grizz. I don't. I used to not like Jenny. I used to think she's kind of a lot, but she's like, I like, she's kind of one of those friends that you're like, Whoa, you're a lot, but I just love and accept you anyway. Um, for Jenny. Oh, weirdly, I'm not good friends with the twins bomb and the twins. I guess I'm answering for I'm answering right now. I

[37:50] Mike Abrams: kind of well, so this is it's fun to hear your answers. And I was gonna say that it seems like you're answering as like so much of your own personal opinions have been shaped by the character you have to play, sure, and I think some of that is because you didn't have the deep, like ties to all the backstories growing up watching it. And so you have, like, a preconceived notion of so many it's more of like, you've only viewed this from the lens of Bombay Irina. And so all your answers are just like, well, of course, I don't like, of course, betray me, like, like you were answering as her. So I'm assuming, on the flip side, then your love is probably like a Demeter and yes, is there any other characters that like? Maybe that's one that you don't interact with as much, so you're just like, I kind of did that person I don't interact

[38:30] Speaker 3: with mistop allies, but obviously must have, and Harry Francis plays it in our production, and he's just wonderful, just a wonderful human off stage as well. And obviously, you know, just breathtaking on stage. It's kind of unbelievable. It's, it's my favorite moment of the show is I just sit on the little cat tree on the side and watch him. And I always, that's my favorite, that's my favorite moment of the show. It's just, I'm like, wow, this is like, it just feels like very, very high quality theater when I'm getting to watch him do a number. He's so phenomenal. So stop, please. What's your favorite

[39:14] Mike Abrams: was gonna, I'd be criticizing me, like, Oh, of course you do. But that's my favorite song in the show right now, too. Okay, good, good. I think when I first saw it, it was Mungo Jerry ripple teaser, just because it was stuck in my head. I've now had the realization that the reason that I like that song so much is because it's I've noticed that for myself as someone who, like, I got overwhelmed seeing so much happening at once. Like, I'm very much a sitcom plot fan, where it's like, it's very easy to follow, very simple. I don't have to think that much. And I got to cats and like, what is going on? There's so much, and the only time that's not happening is Mungo general teaser, right? And so it's like, that was my favorite number. And I'm like, that probably says a lot about me as a person. Of like, that was the moment where I could just focus on just the two of them, right? As I watched macavities, kind of the same way. I just think the music's so great. Like, the song is just so fun. So it's the one

[40:02] Speaker 3: orchestra. It's so good. I love it. Yeah, I

[40:07] Mike Abrams: have a lot of thoughts on this one, but I want to hear your what comes your mind. But which cat do you think would be the best on Tik Tok? Like, if they were a tick tock influencer? Oh, wow.

[40:18] Mike Abrams: have lots of answers for this. It's not ready.

[40:21] Speaker 3: Sting, interesting. Okay, I think skimble Shanks would be good at treating it like a business. Posting at the correct time. I'm still not like that. I just post whenever I feel like it. I can't do all like the research of the right time to post or when you know. So I think skimble thinks we good at the business side. I think, ooh, I think the kittens would be good, like, etc, because they're young and hip and cool at the times.

[40:56] Mike Abrams: I'm surprised you haven't said you I bought Irina. I think she would be dancing and, like, dancing up a storm, doing all the different trends. Bomb and Tugger were my first two originals.

[41:11] Speaker 3: Because every, every Tugger on Tik Tok does amazing like, Tugger tick tock is a thing. But I think

[41:18] Mike Abrams: where this gets interesting, if you start thinking about, I wouldn't say their niche. But, like, niche, but like, the ones that are very specific to a type of, like, content. I think bus for Jones is cooking, yeah, I think there's probably somebody, yeah, someone's on the book talk, like jelly alarm is probably, like an avid reader and is on the book title. I think there's a couple of these. Like, Victoria's probably doing some stuff dancing too. Like, there's some, like, niche, but interesting. I see it.

[41:51] Mike Abrams: is would be great at it too. You're so right. Okay, I know you don't want to answer this question, but I gotta ask you now i i want you to either defend your least favorite cat, or I want you to pick who you would choose as your Jellicle choice, and why. So I

[42:10] Speaker 3: initially was very much the wrong cat died. I was like, wow, this is so unfair to Gus. Grizz is kind of manipulative, and I don't like her and and like, I've heard you say, like, Why can't she just join rejoin the tribe? Like, why can't we just accept her honestly? Wouldn't that be more powerful? And amongst the cast, a lot of people say, like, we just need to get rid of her. Just, she just doesn't drama. We just need to get rid of her. Um, but I was very much like Gus should be the toy or gut. It's like Gus was robbed. Gus was robbed and talking to Jacob, and the longer I've done the production, I now think it's got, it's gotta be Grizz. And a turning factor for me was that, at least in our production, we're playing that she's gonna die. So if she doesn't go this year, she can never go like we're playing that she has, like, some kitty disease, like kitty like STI, or something like that. And she she looks bad, she looks like she's gonna die. You know, yeah, my criteria

[43:19] Mike Abrams: so like that ruins my current argument, which is, if she's not going to make it to next year, then it does become different. Let me ask you this question then, and maybe I'm curious if your cast even talked about this. But does Old Deuteronomy make the same criteria every year? Like, is he making? Like, what it's it's a strange version of this, because you've got somebody returning that left, like you probably don't have somebody returning that left every year. It's like, How's last year's choice made? How's next year's choice made? I don't know.

[43:52] Speaker 3: I think normally it's probably seniority. It's the older cats, the cats who have done their time and paid paid back to the community. So I assume you know, Jenny, any dots, in couple years, could be a strong candidate. She's older and done a lot for the community. I feel like it's seniority. Buster Jones, well, Buster is a little bit like he's not super loyal to our child. Our child travels around, but, but that, but that, it's not the town most talented cat. It's Mr. Police has got, he's not, not going anytime soon. Like, yeah, he's young. So, yeah, I think it's seniority normally, and that's why this year is different. Because I think Grizz is not old, at least in our production. She's around bomb and demeters age, and I also think that's what makes the end so so powerful, is that she doesn't deserve it, but it's this moment of redemption. And she didn't earn it, but that, we know she needs it the most, and we they also made a really big point to have Gus give her permission. Oh, interesting, yes. So our Gus, it's actually probably one of the funniest moments of the show, is that during, right before memory the daylight. Say that when still above singing her solo, our Gus crawls out from the back of a a tunnel that we have, like, Army crawls. And if you can see it from the audience, but all of us can see it, so we're like, watching syllable. We're watching Gus, like, crawl out. It's really so funny, because he's not with jelly Loram at the time, so he's playing that he can't walk without someone, and he sits right next to me, all of memory, he's like, shaking and reaching out to her, and he's also one of the first people to go out after Victoria touches her, being like, I'm giving you permission. It should be you, and Gus got to live his, you know, got to live out his dreams as a famous actor. And Grizabella never got that chance, so she's gonna come back and get that life that she always wanted. Um, whereas Gus is like, I've lived a good life, I'm okay. You can, you can have it. Yeah, there

[46:23] Mike Abrams: is a moment the 1998 movie where he goes from his back turned to all of a sudden, like, okay, and then reaches out. And so I do think there is like supposed to be that moment of where he's accepted that he's no longer the choice. Because I think there's a lot of belief that he was the choice, and that is a an integral part for us to believe that Grizabella is worthy, right? I kind of love that. It's like you were fully on board here, and then good old Jacob Brandt had to go in and try to convince you that way you can play it correctly on stage, that that grizzabel is the right choice. And that's what I'm going on. I'm gonna send them a message and be like, Jacob, you gotta stop convincing people against my podcast. I know, I know. But at the same time, like, when you're producing and when he's doing what he's doing and coming in and helping, it's like, well, you've got to all play, because otherwise it's weird. Like, it wouldn't work if you all went on stage or just like, Nope, we don't want to send her. But like, go ahead. Like, right? So you've got to convince yourself to do it for that moment. But maybe

[47:23] Speaker 3: my mind will change when I'm not playing the role. But over time, yeah, over time,

[47:27] Mike Abrams: we're gonna get you on either team Gus or team somebody else. That's that's the goal here is, I'm slowly trying to convince everybody I actually, right now I was just looking this morning. It's not, it's pretty close to 5050. Of like Gus and grisbau are pretty much most the votes, but Griswold does not have half the votes, which is pretty wild when you think about, I've done 120 plus episodes of this, multiple guests, like there's a lot of votes, and she doesn't even win half the time of this. And so it's like, that's kind of crazy, because that is the story. Like she is the answer. Like, it's definitive, it's it's the way it ends. It's not changing for 40 something years. But I think I like to think, at first I was like, oh, it's definitely me. I'm I'm causing the the strife here. I'm trying to move in. But I'm like, No, it can't be, because this hasn't changed. Like the order has been 5050 from the beginning, before I even started. I think

[48:23] Speaker 3: it's also the theme to me. If someone says, What is cats about? It's about redemption, forgiveness. Yeah, so, and it's about, you know, she didn't deserve it. She didn't earn it. She wasn't the most talented cat. And she didn't, you know, give to the commute. Didn't give to the tribe the most. She actually gave to the tribe the least. And it's the tribe saying, like, who are we going to be moving forward? So a big turning point for me is that, like, I'm the first time she comes out. I'm very like, Don't touch her. I'm very influential in the group. I'm deciding, I'm telling the kittens, you know, not. I'm telling them how to feel they don't know who she is. And I think my turning moment in the end is, is this the Lexi I want to leave like, is this? Do I look at the kittens being wanting to touch her? And I'm like, do I want to teach them to hate so I think that's why we need to turn around the Jellicle Tribe. And it has less to do with that. Gus deserves it less and more just that we're changing Old Deuteronomy sings about our character in the end. So we're deciding what is our character.

[49:32] Mike Abrams: So I agree with every single thing you said step four, that the she has a disease that's going to kill her. Because I think, like, there's still have the same story. If she gets accepted back, and you just send somebody else up, but it's, you know, it's open, it's open for interpretation. Yeah, this has been so fun. How can everyone stay in touch with you on social media and see the amazing tiktoks And everything else you're doing? And. Working on, yeah,

[50:00] Speaker 3: so my Instagram is Maggie underscore McCown, and my Tiktok is XOXO, Maggie MC. Maggie Nick So, yeah, come find me. We

[50:13] Mike Abrams: will put that in the description so people can find it. And thank you so much for sharing about your production and your experience and all the fun doing this, this show. Yeah,

[50:24] Speaker 3: this has been so much fun. I love I love talking about this stuff. So I'm so thankful to have gotten to chat with you today. Awesome. Well, thank

[50:30] Mike Abrams: you, and thanks everyone else for listening to this episode of The Ron cat died podcast. Break down the cat's atrophy. To follow along, you can subscribe on Apple podcast, Spotify, Stitcher, or anywhere else to listen to podcasts. Follow us on Twitter, Instagram and Tiktok at the wrong cat died, or check our website@theroncat.com you.