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[0:00] Speaker 1: Hi, I'm Ariana Grande, Hi, I'm Cynthia ARIBO, and you're listening to the Broadway Podcast Network, visit vpn.fm to discover more. There's a cat over here. There's a cat over there. I'm a wrong one died. I'm a wrong one died. Welcome to

[0:28] Mike Abrams: the wrong cat died the podcast. Break down the cats atrophy. I'm your host, Mike Abrams, and today we have another amazing guest. He was mccaviddy on the US national tour, six of cats, and I'm very excited to talk to him. So welcome. Alan Preston, thank

[0:41] Speaker 2: you for joining me. Thank you so much for having me. I'm super, super excited. Yeah, very

[0:45] Mike Abrams: excited. I've talked to a lot of your your six cast over the years, and did a film with the most recent group, and then talked to a couple from your group, and it's been, uh, awesome to chat with you all, because, you know, it's a little fresh too, but I haven't talked to too many macavities. But before we get into my Macavity questions, let's start at the beginning. When was the first time you saw the show? Was it the 98 movie? Kind of like, what was your experience and introduction to cats?

[1:10] Speaker 2: Totally funny enough. I've never actually seen the show before. I was in the show, but my dad was a super big fan. He's a theater nerd. Love him to death, and cats is one of his of his favorite shows. So when the opportunity came about, I was like, of course, I have to. And I mean, as a dancer, it's, it's a dream show. But I first got involved with cats my junior year of college, when I did the non equity promotional video. Because the tour went non equity. It had to have a new promotional video, because you can't have equity actors promoting a non equity show. Yeah, but yeah. So that was my first my first moment with them. I got to work with Kim Craven, who ended up restaging our show, and that was super cool. And then in the promotional I was coroco Pat, that was one of the twins. And then there was a question from casting, if I was ever interested in, you know, going in for the tour that was supposed to be coming in 2020 but I was going to be a senior in college, so it wasn't going to work out timing wise. And then we had the pandemic happen. So it pushed everything back a year. And when casting started to come out post pandemic for US tour six, they emailed me, and they were like, are you still interested in this? And I was like, of course, of course, of course. So yeah, that was a very interesting process. I feel like it was a bit different than others, but, um, it was super, super fun. Yeah,

[2:38] Mike Abrams: so I've never heard so that they had, you had to record an entire promotional video, because the equity tour can't be part like you can't use that in the tour, because they're equity and so you were basically brought in just to put on the unitard and dance for a little bit, just for a video, but not actually cast at that moment, literally. So I

[2:56] Speaker 2: went in and did the promotional video. And I think all I did was, like three dance two, like sharp looks and a little like claw moment. And that was that it was the quick, like six hour shoot. The team was really awesome. And nobody that was on, from what I know, nobody that was in that commercial with me, ended up on the tour. I think some of them had done a tour previously, or had been associated with the show previously, but yeah, no, there was no idea that this was leading to a tour. It was just like a one off thing, which was fun. Yeah?

[3:35] Mike Abrams: So you've never done a show, never seen the show. Just know that your dad loves it. Yeah? And you get to come in and shoot the promotional video, yeah, a year before you actually go on, you know, get cast and go on tour. What a wild experience like, what an interesting introduction. I know it's

[3:50] Speaker 2: crazy too, because it's, I feel like it's not usually how it goes, you know, like I feel like the audition process is usually a lot, a lot different. And I felt like it was very calm, cool, calm and collected for me, which was really, really nice, because this was a world musical theater in general, is a world that I was stepping into for the first time in like, such a professional setting, and then, like, what I'd call, like the big leagues, like a national tour. You know, I never thought to myself that that would be a reality. So it was a very, very interesting journey. Um, but, yeah, it was very, very fun.

[4:25] Mike Abrams: Yeah, I actually never thought about that angle of it. Of like, before you go on tour, since it is starting, they have to, you have to shoot like ads before anybody actually gets in costume and dressed up and goes. And so you have, like, you just bring in people. And since you're in cat costume, anyways, it's not like you can tell. It's not like you you can't do, you know, with a superstar headline or act, you can't throw in somebody else, and, you know, not in costume, yeah, because it's cats. So I never really thought about that angle. And so it's such an interesting and unique piece of like, you did it not even. The cat you played, and that led to, likely, your contract,

[5:02] Speaker 2: yeah, and I think from there too, like when the post pandemic, when they were casting the tour again, because everything got delayed, it was super exciting. I just got an email out of the blue. And I always say this to my friends, I feel like in this industry, it just takes one email or one phone call and like, everything changes. And I remember, I was like, finishing up finals or something, and I got an email, are you interested? And I was like, yeah. And then it just started, what became, like a 1415, month journey with this show.

[5:35] Mike Abrams: Wow, yeah. I mean, it is such a it's a different world. Like, I've never lived in the world, so I don't even know how, like, never auditioned, or made a self tape or done any of this stuff. And so it's like, you hear all these crazy audition stories. But it also does feel a little bit of a Who do you know type of industry, because the casting directors are sometimes especially named George Weber shows, it seems like it's a lot of the same people, yeah. And so if you know one, like, there's a huge crossover to Phantom, and there's these crossover to other shows, because it's the same people, and it's like, well, you're not gonna be great for this role, but you'd be perfect over here in cats or perfect over here in Phantom. And they, they kind of keep you, you in mind,

[6:10] Speaker 2: yeah. And I think the interesting thing that I didn't realize with casting for an Andrew Lloyd Webber show is that when I was going through the entire process and I was being submitted by the US team to Andrew's team, like I had already gotten the the green light from the people I was in the room with. But then it goes over to London, and that entire team has to approve you as well. And so there was a fear, because, like, I knew I was being submitted, but then I also knew there was a potential that the team in London would be like, No, thank you. You know it's like, We want someone else, which is really scary, because it's like, you work so hard, and you're like, Oh, I'm so close and but fortunately, and like, again, changed my life. The show really did. Super blessed that everything came, came to be and then come August 2021 I was in Syracuse learning this show.

[7:03] Mike Abrams: Yeah, so with the commercial says it's a six hour shoot. How much like coracle Pat has a very like, has a vibe and like, did they give you any personality or like, type of acting? Or was it purely just, like, do this dance number and that's all we need? Like, were you given anything from that? I mean,

[7:23] Speaker 2: yes, and no, of course, they give you a bit of insight. Like, I knew I was a twin. I knew we were telepathic, and person that I was that was my 10 smile on the shoot, like we had gone to school together, so we had some sort of you know relationship, okay, and trust with each other, but it's really fast, and it's not something where you're diving really deep into character. Quite literally. One of the shoots is like an arm drag across and like changing your focus. Another one you do, like a single attitude turn. You know, it's not like you're doing full dance numbers. And the interesting part too was that the longest part of the day was just being in makeup and, like, getting in there, and they're like, yeah, please show up, like, an hour or something early, and then I'm sitting in the chair, and, you know, you put on that unitard and the wig and all of this for the first time, and you look in the mirror and you're like, I have no idea who I am. Like, you know, you can't even see the human in you?

[8:21] Mike Abrams: Yeah, so let's fast forward now. Now you're in Syracuse, and you're not corco Pat, you're not one of the twins. You're cast as Macavity, yeah. What was that experience like? And then I always love to hear like, what? What do you remember of the storytelling to tell you? Of like, what do they tell you about my cavity? What they tell you about the whole jellicles and all the craziness of the, not the dancing and the, you know, the lore of the show, but just like the actual back story that you need to know to tell the plot. Yeah. So

[8:51] Speaker 2: it was really interesting. So we had crazy Cartwright, which is one of Andrew Lloyd Webber's, like she's an icon, and she came in one day, and we had a whole presentation. I remember it being like two, three hours, and just going through every single cat and what exactly we were supposed to portray as that cat and how they fit into the bigger picture. And so it was cool for me, because I got to be Plato and Macavity for Cassidy. Since they don't have someone separate, you're always the same character. So I always said it was princely Plato, you know, he's, he's the Prince and kind to everyone. And, you know, flirtatious and fun, but like a teenager, you know? And then you get to do a little quick change and jump into Macavity, which is, quote, unquote, the super villain, but also is just a really fun track to jump into because it is such a contrast of like being Plato and being pretty and, you know, doing all these lists, and then all of a sudden you're terrorizing the tribe. But it was a thing. Working with casting, or with Chrissy just explaining that, you know, mccavity has a history that we don't get to see in the show. Has a history with so many of these cats that we we never really know about or get to hear about. But then when he comes on that stage and like, using that distraction to, like, get away and trying to just wreak havoc was really fun to jump into, because it's not a character that I would like align with personally, you know. And it's a, you're not a super villain for No, and it's a quick, like, you're only on stage as a cavity for really, maybe a minute. So it's, it's like, empty the gas tank, give it everything you've got, you know, terrorize the tribe, and then leave. Yeah,

[10:45] Mike Abrams: so the So, that's the part that I am fascinated by, is like, you're given this snippet of, there's a history with all these other cats, but are you given that history, or is it just like, that's kind of all you need to know. And then now Go, go make it your own. Like, how does that like, how much does Chrissy tell you about, like, with Demeter, there's this level of of, like, relationship, and with Bombay arena, there's this, and there's this with Tugger. Like, how's that? Does it go that deep? Or is it just a you need to know if there's history. No, it goes,

[11:15] Speaker 2: it goes very, very deep. I actually was looking before we were going to record today for my notes, because I took notes on the whole thing, because, you know, getting into the show, I had a general idea, because they give you a little like overview, so you have some sort of idea of what's going on, you know. And there's so many like theories of what the show is about, or what it's not about, or, like, what it's trying to say or not trying to say. And so when Chrissy came in and gave us that three hour like info session. It really was character by character, and it would go and be like, oh, so and so is interacting with these people because of this reason, and this is their back history and this and this and this. But then beyond that, once you're with your tribe, you know you have that outline, but as a tribe and a community and a tour together, you kind of form your own, you know, Mark on what that relationship is. You know, you're not changing, and I'm not coming out, and as McCabe and being like, oh, all of a sudden, I'm like, super kind and love everyone you know. But you find, you find, like, where you can push, where you can pull back, like, where you can really play off of people and like, what is specific to your Macavity, what's specific to your cat in general. And that is one of the most fun parts, because it kind of changes through the tour too. You know, like, when you're in a city and you're maybe a little bit, like, frustrated that day, or, like, you have a lot of energy, like, McCabe is a little bit, you know, bigger and meaner and cruel and, like, really fighting. But yeah, it's interesting.

[12:55] Mike Abrams: I also feel like there's probably on tour you have, like, it's almost a family dynamic, and there's gonna be days where you're just like, a little more annoyed with this position, and then a little bit more like, Oh, we're having a really great day. And you're just, you know, people on tour, you're just performers. Then you get on stage and it's like, no, wait, hold on. I'm supposed to be mad at this person, or I'm supposed to be really mean to this person. And I feel like that. Probably what makes theater so cool is that it's different every day. And there's, it's live, is that you probably had some of those nuances where, just like, Oh, I'm supposed to play this here, but I'm not going to change the story, but I'm going to be a little more friendly to this person today, because we had a really great day doing X in the morning, you know, type of thing, of

[13:33] Speaker 2: course, yeah, I think too. It's a big morale show, you know. So, because we have to play off of each other so much, and because we're on the stage so much, and there's so many moments of improv with other cats, like, depending on the energy of the day of the entire group, you know, again, the show is not different. It's just little nuances that are different. You know, maybe as Plato, when we're listening, when we're listening to gusta theater cat, we're like, you know, listening intently to him. But like, maybe we're playing a little bit, like, playing with each other's tails or, or maybe one day we're like, very focused and listening. Or maybe another day, you know, we're like, rolling around a little bit and distracted. And those are the moments that are really fun. And like, keep it fresh.

[14:15] Mike Abrams: Yeah. What's the split of time that you're Plato versus mccavity?

[14:18] Speaker 2: I am Plato the entire first act, and for Augusta theater cat, the beginning of the second act. And then I do a quick change during peaks and pollicles and gimbal Shanks the railway cat. Then I come out and I take away Old Deuteronomy. I wait for another second, and then I do the little, the little attack of monkey strap. So honestly, I feel like it's like 99% Play Doh and 1% mechanic,

[14:57] Mike Abrams: yeah. And then do you go, you don't go back, though you're gonna. Cavity through from that point forward, no

[15:02] Speaker 2: after the fight, and you leave you quick change back into play doh, to come go back to play. Doh, yeah, and it's like a The thing is, is that, like Plato, has the base makeup, and then you add orange and black and change your wig, change the entire costume, and then when we come back, we wipe it all off, redo the Play Doh makeup, put the wig back on and take off unitard, because for Play Doh, you don't fully take off the unitard and put another one on. You're putting it on top of it. So you're just taking off like your furs. And then when I first come out as like disguised Old Deuteronomy, I have my Play Doh unitard. I have my Macavity unitard, and then I have the Old Deuteronomy coat and mask. And I remember that was always like, the the hottest part of the show, like you're dripping in sweat, and you're like, I can't wait for this coat to get ripped off. I can, like, breathe, you know, see where I'm going. That

[15:59] Mike Abrams: is fascinating because, you know, I think what's also interesting about it is there's so much more that I've thought about Macavity than Plato, because there's a such a bigger part of the story as the villain. But then it's like, oh, wait, you're sure Plato like 99% of the time the cavity is just like this figure that comes in for a little bit, and then is back out, but has such a lasting moment because of the like, the story that the part that they play in the story. And so then let's dive more into play. Doh, yeah, I don't, I don't like, I don't think I've spent any time up, but I've always just said, Oh, it's but put him a cavity, and it's like, it's a totally different cat that doesn't, that doesn't get as, I'm assuming, more kitten ish, but doesn't get as much of the the spec story kind of written for them as as Macavity does.

[16:47] Speaker 2: Yeah. And I think the thing that I really, really loved about Plato, it felt more like myself, you know, it felt like I as a human being, I could align with it a bit more than the super V super villain, but Plato is, is wonderful, you know, he's kind to everyone. He's protective, he's curious about things, but also, like, very, very playful. And the thing that's really great about him is he and Victoria get to have a little love story, you know, and get to they're always by each other's side. They're always, like, looking out for each other. And they get to do the beautiful paw at the middle of the Jellicle Ball with those famous over the head lift and all of that. And it was cool too, because growing up, the actress who played Victoria was like a great friend of mine. And so when I walked into the room on the first day, I was like, Oh my gosh, hi, LA, how are you? Like, hello. Who are you? What's what's going on? She's like, Oh, I'm Victoria. And from that moment on, I just got so excited, because we already had that connection. It wasn't like a new partner that I had to figure figure out a lot of things with. We had that instant, like connection, that comfortability with each other, and I think it really shined through. And we had a lot a lot of

[18:02] Mike Abrams: fun. Yeah, how is awesome? I had her on a little bit back. I'm so Plato does the lift like the essentially the coming of age moment for Victoria. But that's not always been the case, right? Because it's been Alonso in the past. It's been other kittens in the past. So that's kind of again, also another interesting part of adding to Plato's story is now you get this like, kind of big moment that wasn't there in the original choreography and early on, when it was Alonzo. And I think somebody else has done it in the past,

[18:32] Speaker 2: but I think it's, I mean, I'm grateful for the opportunity. That's literally one of my favorite, favorite parts of the show is that Paul, when Victoria and Plato get on the ground, and, you know, they're nuzzling with each other, and they do this beautiful paw and the lift, and like, the spotlight's on you, and you're kind of getting nervous because you're like, oh, is the lift going to happen tonight? And it always does. But, you know, yeah, with the fear of everything and the excitement, but it's also, I think it was really special to me again, because I got to share it with someone who I cared so dearly for, you know, and had a history with, and so I don't know it was great. And I like, I would not have asked for any different partner, like, I love pilot to death.

[19:15] Mike Abrams: So that moment is supposed to be Victoria, essentially losing a virginity. Is Plato losing his virginity in that moment? Was that even spoken about? I don't

[19:27] Speaker 2: think we've ever talked about that necessarily. I think in my mind, yeah, I would say so yes. I think in the way that the story is probably not, I feel like he's a cat that, like, definitely already has been through that and experienced that, but for my internal dialog, thinking back now, I felt more like they were sharing this moment together, and that's what made it so, you know, special and and unique and, yeah, yeah.

[20:00] Mike Abrams: I this is, I'm the only person asking these questions in the entire world, so no worry. No one's thought about that. I'm always just curious, though, of like, because I've heard pockets of like, Chrissy said this, or some like, or Kim said this, and, you know, Trevor said this back in the older days. But then there's so many other things I'm like, But did they say about this? Or was this just, like, interpreted, or just added, or just kind of like they're like, the fascination for me is understanding what is given versus what has to be added in the story that you can't cover everything, like there's no way to give everything for this, and that's what makes it so unique. And why we can have these conversations is because there are so many liberties to take without changing the material

[20:38] Speaker 2: totally. And I think a lot of it's the internal dialog, because I know for sure, like, even on the tour, everyone has their own theories of relationships and things and all that. And like, we take what we were given, and, you know, try to really stay true to that. And I think we do. But at the same time, you know, what are you kind of telling yourself and what? What about that character are you most drawn to? And like, what are you going to play? The most of you know, like, for me again, it was, it was princely Plato. Like, trying to be super kind. But then again, I was talking to some friends, and I think that my Play Doh came off a bit flamboyant, like, I think in the way that I my stature and all of that. I think it came off more flamboyant than than I had thought. You know, we're

[21:26] Mike Abrams: gonna take a quick break, and then we back for more of the wrong cat died. I want to ask you about one particular line in the cavity song that I think about a lot, and if you've thought about it at all, but there's a line that he's broken every human law, and that line opens up, I think, a very, very interesting I mostly think about because it can be memed a lot, but it's a it's such a bizarre thing to have written into the poem that then also, then, when you think About it's like, okay, well, this is super, super villain, but every human law includes every single human law. And I kind of always joke like, the ends of the spectrum are murder, or like, running a red light, you know, or j1 you know, like, what is like? What is what does that look like in between and like? Do you think about that at all, and we were, I guess, three minutes on stages in the cavity of like, super villain. I'm literally capable of doing anything, because I've broken every human law. To be

[22:29] Speaker 2: honest, I've never thought about that exactly. I'm usually backstage when Macavity is happening and like, feverishly trying to get the wig on and figure everything out, and my shoelace is ripping and all this, all that, but thinking about it now, I just think it's a testament to the amount of power he has, you know, yeah, which is, and again, is something interesting to play with, because you don't want to push it too far and make people you don't want people to like you, but you also don't want people to be completely turned off by you. You want there to be some sort of interest there and some sort of like amazement with with you, even though you are the super villain. And I think that the big thing is, like breaking every human law, the fact that he always gets away with it, there will never be he will never be caught. He's always two steps, 10 steps ahead, you know, and so, and I think he knows that, so he knows he can get away with it, and he knows he can do the whole hypnosis on the entire tribe, and then run away and act like nothing happened, and then when he's bored, come back and terrorize them again.

[23:37] Mike Abrams: Yeah, he's also still, he's part of the tribe, right? Like, it's so it is, like a family member that is, is not great, you know, he's the one that whenever somebody asks you about you're like, oh, yeah, uncle, Uncle mccavity, you know? Like, like, of course, you know, everyone knows the like, why they're asking you is because it's the villain, but it's also still family. And so it's like, yeah, they're, they've done some stuff, but, like, they're still part of our tribe. And there is a flavor of Macavity wanting to be the choice to be reborn. So it is a very interesting dynamic of that, of like, like you said, you don't want to be so hated, but you also need to be scary enough, because that, like, You are the the villain,

[24:17] Speaker 2: yeah. And that was another thing, again, our own thoughts as the cast, or, I guess I should be crow myself, my own thoughts as the cast is that monkey strap, Tugger and Macavity are all brothers. And in my mind, monkey strap is obviously the oldest one. I think that Tugger is the middle, because he's the goofy, fun middle. You know, he is what he is. Tugger the whole other being. And the Macavity is the jealous young one, the one that like looks up and sees that they have this power and sees that they have this charisma, and is kind of like the evil mixture of both of them, and will do anything to get that recognition and to like, get that approval. But he never will. But then he. When he fights his brother and

[25:01] Mike Abrams: I get your, yeah, I get your order. I would have almost thought the reverse, the Macavity is the oldest and like, the one that that didn't want brothers, ended up with brothers, and kind of took it out on, you know, of course, with if, if we do flip them in order, or Tugger is the next and then. But I think you're probably right, though, because if monks truly like the next in line, like, there's probably got to be the oldest, and so you're, I think you're, you're probably right. But then that's the other thing, yeah, he does fight his brother.

[25:31] Speaker 2: And jumping back to Plato really quick, just with Dynamics and things, I remember, it was said that, of course, Manka strap is next in line, but then there was a theory that alanzo was right behind monkey strap. Like to be after him, but in my mind, Plato was always after munkastra. You know, he's a bit too young, and he won't be the leader interested anytime soon. But I felt like I tried to embody that at least a little bit. Or like, think about that of like I would want to be, you know, a leader of this tribe, I would want to be the one, like, helping everything go along. I'm just very young.

[26:08] Mike Abrams: Yeah, so how, how long do you think old dude out of me has left like, I that is an interesting question in itself, of like, if, if it's kind of universally accepted that monk is next, like, when is How much longer does he gal anyway, he seems almost like he's never gonna,

[26:23] Speaker 2: yeah, I would say I think he has two or three more Jellicle balls. Okay, so just a couple. Does he kill himself eventually? I don't know. I feel like, I feel like it's one of those things where it's a part of the story that we've never we will never know, because it will never be written. But I feel like in my mind, there comes a part where Old Deuteronomy finally feels comfortable enough with letting monkey shop take the lead that he finally allows himself to rest, and finally allows himself to like, let control go and and be done. And, like, you know, surrender to natural causes and and all of that. But I think it's still, he's gonna stick around until he feels comfortable enough to have monkey strap lead. Yeah,

[27:18] Mike Abrams: yeah, it's, I just don't, I don't see him leave, like, I don't know. Like, there is a, if you think about the whole tribe in general, and like, the fact that it is an annual process of, like, sacrificing somebody, you kind of, like, can go for the next couple years, and then you almost run out, and it's like, well, who was reborn, and then when does he come? And yeah, who was previous? And there's just, like it's a never ending loop. And I did love somebody in the fifth tour kind of joke that tore on for a while that this was actually just Old Deuteronomy way as a serial killer to hide his feelings. So part of it's like, no, he's not leaving until he gets caught, you know, type of thing. Yeah, let's do some rapid fire around the show. So if you could play any character for one night, male, female, whether you could do it, not do it, vocal range anyway, just if you could go on for one night as one cat, who would you want to go on for? Demeter. Demeter, love it. Such a fun number. You want to sing your number? I mean, I

[28:19] Speaker 2: don't know if I necessarily want to sing it. I just would love to be Demeter and and just jump into that world. And I guess selfishly, I would really like to be in Macavity, like I would love to, yeah, I don't know about sing it. I mean, of course I would sing it, but that's not the first thing that comes to mind, but just being a part of that powerhouse number, I would always change as fast as I could so I could watch as much of my COVID as I could, yeah, and I also, I feel like I was so blessed to get to watch both Chelsea and Lauren every night as bomb and Demeter and just Yeah. I was always in awe. And I think that track is just something I would love, love, love to dive into.

[28:59] Mike Abrams: Yeah, it's, it's probably one of my favorite songs in the show. Just like, it's kind of sticks with you, like, even, even just the music, like, forget the dance number, the ass numbers, obviously for sexual and, like, kind of risking at moments. But the song, just like, really sticks, who are your favorite and least favorite cats in the show, ignoring actors and performers, just personality cat wise,

[29:24] Speaker 2: my least favorite is Tugger. I just yeah, my least favorite is Tugger, and my most favorite is, honestly, I love Gus the theater cat, okay? Or jelly Lorem, honestly it's a tie. Or Jenny, honestly, it's a three way tie. Like those three to me, I'll say Gus the theater cat. I just really I adore that song. It's my favorite song in the show.

[29:56] Mike Abrams: Like, is, um, well, that's my next question was, what? Your favorite song in the show, yeah, Gus is some of this tied to, do you feel like your hate of tus comes from your Macavity? Like, like, doing the cavity for a year all of a sudden, be like, Oh my God, my brother, I can't stand him. I

[30:13] Speaker 2: feel like a little bit, I think it's also Tucker's hard. Tugger is, like, one of the hardest numbers in the show, it is a grab your inhaler and let go, and it's one of the most fun. But then, you know, the annoyance you have of Tugger is, like, internalized a bit, you know, because every night you have to be like, Oh, here's Tugger again, you know, like, yeah. And the actors who we had on the tour who were Tugger, unbelievable, so incredible, of course. But then I think you also internalize a little bit of that, like, oh, we keep brushing them off, keep brushing them off. And then a little bit you start to like, believe it, but yeah, yeah,

[30:57] Mike Abrams: okay, if one cat was gonna be the villain besides Macavity, who do you think could step into that role best?

[31:05] Speaker 2: Honestly, have two answers. I think the most interesting person that could step in would be Cassandra. I think the best person that could step in would be Tugger, if he had a switch up. Oh, interesting. You know, he's the party side fun, and then all of a sudden, the prize is supervisor. I thought about

[31:25] Mike Abrams: this one for a while, and it kind of went back and forth between the twins, who I thought could be, like, they're so creepy and ominous that they could have, like, some fun with it. I didn't think about Cassandra, but that's a really good answer. I always think about Buster for just being the money behind my cavities, crime gang. Anyways, yeah. So I'm like, yeah, he could Tony Soprano his way and actually become the villain, you know, like he could become the mob boss. I like Cassandra. That's a really good answer. I hadn't thought about her. I just think

[31:52] Speaker 2: it would be interesting to see her be the villain, you know, because she's so beautiful and so, like, just wonderful. And then all of a sudden to kind of have a switch up and, like, I'd be curious to see what that that would look like, you know, and what the dynamic would be,

[32:09] Mike Abrams: yeah, I wonder. There's also maybe a Demeter with, like, her backstory being her villain or origin story, almost, of like, it's not now, but we're if it she's gonna go, because Bob's gonna bring her on the right path, but she could go on the wrong path and almost do that. You could also have a Grizabella villain story, which is probably my, my version of cats. Anyways, yeah.

[32:31] Speaker 2: I think the other thing too is, if you had Demeter as the villain, it would be really cool during the Macavity fight when monkey strap finally is, like, off the car boot and slides down the stage, if Demeter gets up and, like, takes one, like, hit and takes my cavity out, I think that would be so, so badass. If demeters Just like, I've had enough of this, you know, I'm over with it. I'm done being traumatized. Like, this is it, and just one slash and mccavity is gone.

[32:58] Mike Abrams: I like that. It fits the story too. Like, it would definitely fit in of like, this is her revenge all that McCabe has put her through. I'm gonna, we'll pitch it. We'll pitch it for the next staging. Sounds good. Next time it goes on tour, we're gonna be like, we're gonna be like, All right, we had some idea. One minor change here. This isn't gonna change much, but, yeah, yeah, mccaffrey's still gonna get get, you know, we're gonna get rid of him, but we're gonna add one other fighter, yeah. Um, okay. Million dollar question. I've argued at length. I don't think Grizabella is the right Jellicle choice. So do you want to defend Grizabella? Or who are you as Aiden gonna pick as your Jellicle choice?

[33:36] Speaker 2: Million dollar question. I've been thinking about this a lot the past couple days. And just like in general, because I want to have the right answer. Selfishly, I want to be like, Play Doh, of course, because, like, I want to be able to ride the tire and do the whole thing. But

[33:53] Mike Abrams: I think little doesn't have a vote yet, so you could be the first Plato vote, yeah.

[33:57] Speaker 2: But I can't really, like, back him up. Like, I don't really have much to offer when it comes the reason why I would really, I have two different answers, of course, with everything, if we were to keep Grizabella as the one, the Chosen One, the heavy side layer, the everything, the starting again, all of that, I wish there was an opportunity To see what she does with it. You know, after she comes back, what exactly, what is different? How does she, you know, take this opportunity, but then it's also like, we kind of get a glimpse of that with her younger self being syllable, or like portraying or like, kind of alluding to that. So that would be the only thing if I would defend her. I would just want to see what happens. Yeah, and if it weren't her, I really on the same line. I would really like to see Gus have a second chance. And I wish there was a moment to kind of see. See that life again. You know, see him. I know we have peaks and polls and we get to have a display of like him when he was in his limelight and everything was wonderful. But I would love to just go into his story. I don't know why I'm so drawn to Gus in so many ways, but I just, I wish I could see that full story from like a kitten all the way to when we get to Gus, the theater cat.

[35:25] Mike Abrams: Yeah, it's that's an interesting version of it, like, because I always thought there's a baby Grizz in some of the dance numbers, in the ensemble the beginning. And that's, I've always thought that that could be like the parallel of her when she is as a as a kid, but I kind of like the I've always thought there's a lot of ways to write cats too, but your kind of like idea is falling, which is like, let's let them die, and then let's, like, make them start from scratch and see if we can build to their life. And I just like envisioning this, both Chris and Gus kind of that same path without the fall, but it's like, All right, we're gonna watch them as a kid, doing theater growing up, and then they're gonna be fighting for their first contract and doing tiktoks, you know, like, with their survival jobs, like, yeah, like, then they've gotta, then they're gonna, like, make it, and then they're gonna be the superstar, then then they're gonna get to Gus, or they're gonna go down the path and we're gonna get to Grizabella. So I do kind of think that's kind of a fun way of, a fun way of like, what is a modern version of the next, like the reborn life of cats look like from today forward. But

[36:29] Speaker 2: wouldn't it also be interesting if when they were reborn, they I mean, maybe this is how it actually works. I could sound really dumb saying this, but they come back to like everybody else stays the same, you know, and then they come back into the same exact tribe with everything. And then it would be interesting, like, from Plato's point of view, to get to watch Gus at theater cat, get to watch him be chosen for the heavy side lair. And then shortly after, get to see all of a sudden, there's a new kitten, and it's not Gus himself. I mean, it is, but like, realizing, like, Oh, I just saw him as this, this elderly cat, and now I'm seeing him, and he's younger than me, you know, he's like, a little kitten, and getting to, like, enjoy that from all the different perspectives, you know, from respecting him to being like, oh, I need to, like, show him the ropes a little bit

[37:25] Mike Abrams: well. And I think, I think it was Hyla that said that she thought she was last year's choice, and that's why Victoria kind of gets this, like, part of her story is that she's getting the beginning of her story because she was the choice last year. So I do think there is some merit to that. Of like, what does the like you get reborn into the tribe? What does that look like? And it's a whole different like, this is where, like, the fans and the performers, like, we think about it, but there's no way I think Chrissy and Trevor and Andrew Lee Weber are thinking about that. They're like, No, the show. And I started writing my next show, you know, and that's where the day started. Yeah, that's all it is, all you need to know. But it is kind of fun, but I'm not gonna let you off the hook. Though. You made two answers. I do keep track. So who are you putting as your one vote? I'll give I'll let them both get a vote. But like, who's your top choice? Is it? Grizz, Gus, going with Gus. I love it. We're going with Gus. Slowly catching up. I'm he's not quite there. Chris still is leading, but I'm slowly getting guests closer, and I'm getting non grizzes Closer. So it's, it's closer to 5050, who

[38:29] Speaker 2: is, who is the cat that is? Like, do you have any cats that have zero votes? Of course, probably, oh,

[38:35] Mike Abrams: a bunch. Yeah. Pretty much, all the kittens. A lot of the ensemble, like the ones that aren't household names are usually there. I can tell you who has votes as of today. So this is literally, I mean, last of the time we're recording. Grizabella has about half 40 45% Gus has about a little over a third. And then Macavity, skimble, Shanks, Old Deuteronomy, Cassandra and syllabob each have more than one vote. And then there's a bunch that have one vote. And some of them are just purely jokes, yeah, and others are like, very thoughtful. But I have Victoria Demeter, Buster monk, baby Grizz jelly, Lorem, the Rumpus Cat, Mungo, Jerry rumple, teaser, uh, most awfulies, Tugger and tumble. Brutus, all have one vote. So there's been a wide range interesting you get to some of them, and it's like the Rumpus Cat was one of the lewberger guys making a joke because they just don't know many of the names. And some of them are, like, there's, there's, like, a very unique, thoughtful reason as why, but it's very specific to that, to that guest totally, but it's pretty much a Gus Grizz conversation like that's that's the battle that's happening.

[39:51] Speaker 2: They should go together. We could choose two cats. I So

[39:56] Mike Abrams: my original joke that started this podcast was, I. I wanted it to be I saw Leona Lewis in 2016 and I wanted an X factor, like version of cats, which is, let's vote by the audience with Simon Cowell as the judge. And that show has a very long history of making boy bands and girl bands like like combining soloist into a One Direction or a Fifth Harmony. Yeah. So I wanted to send, uh, Tiger misophys together, because I was like, they would make a really fun boy band. Like, already friends. They're already, like, kind of together. Yeah, their two numbers are jams, like they would be fun. So that was my original answer with the two of them. And then it's like, Well, wait, there's no, like, real argument for them besides that, like, joking. So then I'm like, No, my real arguments Gus. And my real argument is Gus with Grizabella going the year after because she can spend the year with her family now that she's been accepted at some birthday parties, go hang out like reunite with her family, and then be next year's choice. I love that. So that's where we're at today. My goal is to one day get an Edwin drew style cats where, yeah, it would be perfect for tour. Go on tour, give everybody a little buzzer at their seat, get to the end of the show, and right when he's about to make his choice, let them let the audience vote, and then a different cat goes every night. That would be so fun. That would be so fun who I also think it would be fun for you as performers, because it's like, who's gonna bling it tonight? Yeah, like to, like, earn the right of being the Jellicle choice. And

[41:29] Speaker 2: then when you finally get chosen for the first time, you're like, I get to ride the tire. I get to leave. Yeah? And then the people who don't get chosen all tour, you know, they're like, waiting. It's like almost closing down, like, Please, someone,

[41:43] Mike Abrams: please. What I think would be fun, though, is because there's definitely some cats that, like, are gonna, are gonna have a very hard time winning, because you just don't know who they are. But then you start thinking, like, All right, now that performer, we're at their hometown, we're in their city. They're gonna invite their whole group, like dance group growing up, and they're all their family. It's like this is their night, like they can rig this to be, to be the night that they're chosen by telling hundreds of people that they invited to go. So I think it'd be fun. I think it'd be super fun, and it wouldn't be that hard to do, because you would just have that moment where, after memory, and you're about to go to the tire swing, you just pause and let everyone vote. We're like, Yeah, you're all on stage. Like, at that moment, everybody's on stage, yeah. And so the only hard part would be, as if, like, a buster for one or somebody, where you've already made that change, it's a good but I just, I don't think Buster is winning. No, I'm gut, you know, because that's Gus. Like, Gus is gonna go over bus for any day of the week.

[42:44] Speaker 2: Yeah, I feel like, no matter if they chose, yeah, I think Gus would go. I think Gus would honestly win, like, more frequently than than we would sink like, I think that Gus would take, take the prize most sites,

[43:02] Mike Abrams: the only thing that has that goes for this, and I think you see it skewed as you watch. I used to watch a lot of Americans got talent American Idol, like all those shows, they usually save when the voting opens, the minute the show ends. They usually do save more of the better performers for the very last moment. And so Grizabella would have, I think, an inherent advantage that you're gonna literally see memory. You're gonna have heard the whole story, and then you're gonna vote. So like, she's got that moment where it's like, I just watched this incredible performer belt, probably one of the only songs that most people know, the casual fan is gonna know. And so I think it gets interesting. I i would love to do it, because my theory is, and we're seeing it is that she's not the shoe and win every single night. And I bet it would be, I bet there would be some fun. And I just think it'd be so fun for us performers, for you all, to have, like, the dislike, all right, if I really bring it today, like, I got a chance to go up there and, like, have some fun. And it doesn't really change much of the show, because you still just say the Yeah, the endings, the, the, what were cats, not dogs? Kind of like, just anyway. So yeah. So you could definitely have somebody go up and then sing the ending and be done totally.

[44:15] Mike Abrams: One day. Andrew Weber is going to reply to me and we're going to do this. But so far, he's ignored all of my messages. But no, this has been super fun. I love learning a lot about Play Doh. I had not dug as much into Plato as I think maybe we should. There's probably more there. So thank you for doing that with

[44:36] Mike Abrams: And how can people stay in touch with you on social media and kind of keep up with everything you're doing? Yeah, of course,

[44:40] Speaker 2: my Instagram is just my first and last name, Aidan presel And yeah, that's mostly, I think that's actually all my social media platforms. But I think things are coming. We'll tag everything,

[44:54] Mike Abrams: great, yeah, we'll tag everything and make sure people can stay up and again. Thank you for. Sharing everything and and being a great guest,

[45:06] Mike Abrams: And thanks everyone else for listening to this episode of the wrong cat died. The podcast breakdown the cast, hatch feed to follow along. You can subscribe on Apple podcast, Spotify, Stitcher, neurosurgeon podcast, follow some Twitter, Instagram and tick tock at the wronghead diet. Or check out our website, the wrong cat died.com. You