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[0:15] Mike Abrams: Welcome to The Wrong Cat Died, the podcast breakdown of the cat's atrophy. I'm your host, Mike Abrams, and today we have another amazing guest. She was Rumpleteazer on the US National Tour 4 of Cats. So welcome, Nancy Melius, and thank you for joining me.

[0:29] Nancy Melius: Thank you, Mike. It's nice to be here.

[0:31] Mike Abrams: Excited to have you. I love the Rumpleteazer character. I know when I first saw Cats in 2016, I could not get that song stuck out of my head for like weeks. It's the one thing I really remember. It's always fun to talk to people who performed that amazing really kind of like solo, duo track because it's just you two on stage there versus most of the time it's cats everywhere.

[0:55] Nancy Melius: That's true. That's true. Whenever I meet people that have done Cats before, and they ask what character you played, of course, that's the first question. They always know I played Rumpleteazer because I'm little. I'm four foot ten.

[1:09] Mike Abrams: Nice. Well, let's start with the history of your history with the show because I usually, as I talk to like the people who've done the most recent tour, they all grew up with this 1998 movie, the one that was the pro shot. You are starting tour right before that movie comes out. What was your introduction to Cats? It's obviously been out for a little bit, but did you get a chance to see it before you auditioned for it?

[1:39] Nancy Melius: I did see it. I saw it in New York City. I grew up in Long Island, New York, so not far from where Cats was playing. The studio I studied at was right next door to the Winter Garden. Literally across the street, so we could see the Winter Garden from the studio. I was there from the time I was 16. Cats hadn't started yet, but I knew other cast members that were studying in my studio. There was so much buzz around the show at that time because it had really just opened. It was very exciting, and it was new. And so it was magical, and every dancer wanted to do that show, right?

[2:28] Mike Abrams: Yeah.

[2:29] Nancy Melius: And yeah, so I saw the show, and I knew I wanted to play Rumble Teaser. Immediately.

[2:36] Mike Abrams: Immediately, yes. That was my role. I was the right type. There was some acrobatics in it. I also did gymnastics, so that was the role. Do you want to know how I got the role?

[2:49] Mike Abrams: Well, yeah. So let me ask you some follow-up questions on that. So you're dancing in a studio next to the Winter Garden with people in the theater, in the company. At that time, I kind of think through, as someone who's not a dancer, but people like to play the current songs if you're a musician on this. Were you all like, I got to learn these dance numbers? Your studio was trying to immediately pick up these Cats dance numbers because it was this new, interesting, trendy thing? Or is it you're doing a chorus line and all the other stuff, I'm sure, that everyone does in dance studios?

[3:31] Nancy Melius: My teacher, Phil Black, no. He was teaching what he teaches, because there were a lot of shows, let me say, on Broadway. And we had a lot of Broadway dancers from various shows. And he was very serious about the technique that he was teaching, but in preparing us to be on Broadway. So it was pretty tough, but a master at what he did. But he was very well aware of what was required. And I would say, well, actually, what's a fun fact is that there's three Rumpelteasers that came from my dance studio. So the first Rumpelteaser on Broadway, and then the second Rumpelteaser on Broadway, and then me on the tour.

[4:16] Mike Abrams: Wow. Okay. So you're, it's a Rumpelteaser factory spitting out the answers left and right. Okay. So then talk to me about how you got the audition, how you got the show for the tour. What was that experience like?

[4:27] Nancy Melius: Okay. So the show came out, and like I said, every dancer wanted to do that show, because there's not... Of course, there are great Broadway shows, but as a dancer, you don't really get to dance full out a lot of times, unless it's a show like West Side Story or something like that. So that was why that show was so prized and coveted for dancers. And you got to dance for pretty much three hours.

[4:54] Mike Abrams: Yeah. Non-stop.

[4:54] Nancy Melius: So I knew I wanted that role. They had open auditions. I was non-union. So I went to, I forget the name of the theater, but it was a theater audition on the east side of Broadway. There's about 300, so 300 or 400 people there.

[5:20] Mike Abrams: Wow.

[5:20] Nancy Melius: I remember sitting in an alley, waiting, waiting, waiting. You don't know if they're going to see you, because I didn't know if they were going to see me, because I was non-union. But you wait and see if they're not tired by the time they get there, and then they'll bring you into the theater. So I did what, well, everyone else had done. They try to reduce down the number of people by having you first say your name. I think you said your age at that time, where you were from. Then you did a double pirouette to the right, double pirouette to the left, and then they'd go on to the next person. Then they'd say who they wanted to stay. Then they would teach you the first combination, yeah, and then start to cut down from there.

[6:06] Nancy Melius: So I did make it through getting on stage to be seen, even though there were so many people. But I did that three years in a row. So I did not get numb until the third audition.

[6:21] Mike Abrams: So, okay. That's very smart. I know a couple places now do these virtual interviews, where it's like they're going to screen with a couple questions. They did that with just two pirouettes. Can you do that? If you can't do that, bye. Then it's a, we're going to teach you the number, and that's a, okay, we're going to hopefully get you on stage. Then you did this for three straight years or three straight times? What was it, each year?

[6:45] Nancy Melius: Three straight times.

[6:46] Mike Abrams: Three straight times, okay.

[6:48] Nancy Melius: But once a year.

[6:50] Mike Abrams: Yeah, yeah, wow. Then third time, you get the call, and you are ready to be Rumble Teaser.

[6:57] Nancy Melius: Exactly. So yeah, the first two times, of course, I got pretty far, which was nice. I did teach myself, but I didn't teach myself to sing, but I took singing lessons, which if you're a dancer first, singing is not your next love, but I can hold a tune. But I knew it would help me get a job. So I learned that, because a lot of times, dancers at that time, I don't know how they are now, would break in. They didn't have sheet music. They would sing Happy Birthday or something like that, because they were petrified of actually singing. So I thought, well, I'll get a heads up by being able to dance and sing and actually have sheet music, 16 bars.

[7:45] Mike Abrams: Yeah. It's funny you say that, because as someone who can't do either, I'm not a singer or a dancer, but I've talked to so many people over the years, and I had a conversation recently with somebody, and they're like, yes, I'm a singer, and then I'm a mover, not a dancer. I can move. And so there's kind of the reverse of that, where it's you're a dancer who can hold a tune and can sing enough, even though the expertise is dancing, but you have to have that ability. And at that time, I know over various productions, Rumpelteazer didn't always sing that particular song. Sometimes Mungojerrie sang the whole thing, and other times Mungojerrie and Rumpelteazer both sang.

[8:29] Nancy Melius: Correct. Yes. So the first Broadway, when the Broadway production started, they did not sing it. Yeah. And then my tour did. So we actually, my Mungo and I went in to, we were actually brought in a few days before the rest of the cast, because I was very lucky to start out with a brand new cast. So I didn't have to fit in to an ongoing show, which was, my first show, I'm 23 years old, I got my dream job. And they called us both in, it's just the two of us, and they said, you have so much material to learn. We had to come in earlier. So we learned a little bit of our number. And he was like, what? Yes.

[9:18] Mike Abrams: So I want to ask you a little bit about this. We're going to jump ahead, because I want to come back to that, learning the show as a new cast. But one thing I'm fascinated by with the show in general is that there's so much always on stage happening. There's so much going on. And Mungo J. Ripple Teaser is one of the few times where the spotlight is really just on YouTube. And so is that something that they, as they're teaching in the show, allude to? Do they mention that, hey, most of the time it's going to be 20 different cats on stage, but here in this one number, all eyes are going to be on just you two? Or is it something where it's just another number in the show, and you're going to kind of keep going?

[10:06] Nancy Melius: I'm not really sure of the question, but the number, and like all the cats that have their own numbers, they have their own characters that are important to the show, they, our number was a big deal. So we knew that there was going to be a lot of attention on us.

[10:27] Mike Abrams: Yeah. I mean, even with the other cats that have their numbers, there's a lot going on with the other cats on stage during their numbers. So even if you are watching Tugger, there's the kittens dancing with them, and there's other stuff happening that a lot of the audience, especially the superfans, are watching. How does this character react to Tugger? Whereas it's just you two during your number. There's no other distractions.

[10:56] Nancy Melius: I never really thought of it that way, but you're absolutely correct. That, yeah, it was just the two of us sneaking onto the stage. You know, that's how it starts out, right? There's a big bang and, you know, uh-huh. Causing more mischief.

[11:13] Mike Abrams: Yeah. Okay. Let's go back to the, now you're cast. You're in a new cast. You obviously get to do a little with your Mungojerrie first, but now you're going to all come together and learn the show. I'm fascinated by what you remember that you were told, because there's so much backstory and nuance to the show, but at the same time, there's all this dance numbers, all this singing, all this, you know, blocking that you have to be ready for. How much character development do you actually get when you're doing that ahead of tour?

[11:47] Nancy Melius: The major thing I remember was when we all met, and it was, I believe it was the first day of the rehearsals at 890 Studios, Broadway. We were told to lie on the ground, all of us as cats, right? And it probably was 10 minutes, a while, and they'd walk us through what was going on. You know, the sun is coming through the window and cats sleep like, well, I don't know, 80% of their lives, you know, just stretch and just feel like a cat, right? So they wanted people just to experience being a cat and then now crawl around on the ground and explore. And so they walked us through this for a while, let us improv, and then at the end of it, we all had to come together into one big clump into the middle of the studio on top of each other and just hang out.

[12:43] Nancy Melius: Just roll around together, yeah. Yeah, I remember that the most about the day, about the rehearsals. I just met all these people, right? And we're just lying on top of each other.

[12:57] Mike Abrams: Yeah, they're almost trying to break the human out of your movements so that way you can embody the cat for eight times a week. It's like you're almost a cat more than you're a human during the time on tour.

[13:09] Nancy Melius: Correct, yeah. So that was extremely important during that time that, yeah, the cat movements and to really incorporate that into your body and know what that feels like.

[13:24] Mike Abrams: Yeah. What do you remember about the plot that they told you and the backstories for Mongo Jerry Rebel Teaser?

[13:37] Nancy Melius: I would say that there was a lot of direction, at least that I don't remember. I was 23, right? Yeah, yeah. So I remember a lot of choreography, and I do remember each movement having a meaning, whether you're stretching up, looking at the moon or whatever you're feeling so that when you're dancing, everything has something behind it. So that was a key element. So maybe not necessarily to do with your character, it's just to do with the movement itself. Character development came on your own more so, although they did tell us we were mischievous. The song kind of tells you what you are, right? That's what we're saying. This is who we are, right? This is what we do. We create havoc in the house and steal things, and then we try to one-up each other.

[14:29] Nancy Melius: So it was me. It was me. It was him. It depends if we want the blame or if we want the credit. That was what it was. So we were kittens, right? Mother Dairy and Rumpleteazer are kittens, and they're just having fun, and they don't really have much of a conscience. Do you think that they're bad, or they're just kind of like... I always equated them to a rich family, like a rich dad, where the kids are kind of like fake mischievous, and they're mischievous knowing that they're probably not going to get in a lot of trouble? Or are they actually bad and part of Macavity's crime gig? I don't know if they're bad. No, I don't think that they're Macavity's side gig there. I think they're just... I think they grew up together, and I don't know if they were brother and sister, or if they came from the same litter, or just the same tribe, and they just had fun together, and then they just kept getting away with one thing or the other.

Or the owners got them and put them together, and then they started exploring, and then it was fun. But I don't know if they're bad, but they do get into trouble, and they do like to create a little mischief because they think it's fun.

[15:53] Yeah. They cause a nuisance. It's not like they're horrible, or Macavity seems like bad.

[16:01] Yes, Macavity's bad, yeah.

[16:03] Did you ever talk with your Mungojerrie about that relationship? Did you decide that you're brother and sister, or that you're potentially together? How much of those conversations happen when you're on tour? I know this was a while ago, but thinking back, did you have deep conversations about, Rumpelteaser is maybe this relationship with Jenny AnyDots, and this relationship with Mungojerrie? We did not, but listening to your podcast, I heard you ask those questions, and I was, ooh, that's very interesting to see who was this person, who was Jenny AnyDots to us. But yeah, I didn't really get that deep into it, I guess. But I will say that Mungojerrie and Rumpelteaser, as my partner, we didn't talk about, at least that I don't remember who we were, but I knew we were partners in crime, so to say. But we had a connection that when we met, so we had a natural friendship that did come out on stage.

[17:21] When we met, we thought we had known each other for a long time, and we were almost silly, just even off when we weren't rehearsing, we were just like little kids together. So we had that, or we already had that natural connection. And then when people met us, when the rest of the cast came in, they thought we knew each other for years. We met each other two days or a few days before. That made our number special, I think, because we had that chemistry that way.

[17:55] Yeah, yeah. I've thought a lot about this as I've talked to more of your tour, and tour two, and three, is that I'm wondering how much of this relationship backstory stems from the internet, and the social media discourse, and all of the fandom that came from it that can have those conversations that probably aren't as relevant when it's pre-internet. There's just less people. If you all aren't thinking about it, nobody at the stage door is probably coming in, or sending you messages on a social media platform like now. That's what's happening, is there's these conversations because, oh, these two actors did this look on stage. Are they together? Are they this? Are they that? And all of that, I think, probably maybe happened as conversations, but there wasn't an outlet for it.

There wasn't 150 episodes of a podcast discussing this. There wasn't Tumblr pages of people making assumptions. There wasn't a Wikipedia page of fandom with every potential combination of mother-daughter, brother-sister, together relationships that exist today. And it's fascinating to me to hear that your group doesn't even, it's like, yeah, we talked a little bit about this, but then you went out and danced and performed an incredible number, and I'm sure none of you thought about that Grizabella was a jellicle choice, and even considered that as a, is there another option? And that, to me, is just so crazy about current, modern, everyone has an opinion, everyone has the ability to assess stuff, and then also share it. That probably just wasn't happening at that same level years ago.

[19:41] Yeah, that's true. That's very true. Yeah. I mean, we did know that someone was going to go to Cat Heaven.

[19:48] Yeah. That's the whole show, right?

[19:52] Yeah, yeah. But you probably didn't debate it. You didn't debate, should it be her?

[20:00] No, because we didn't choose. And remember, I was a kitten. So I didn't really care about the adult conversation going on there.

[20:05] You're not even thinking about it. It's not your time.

[20:08] No, it's not my time. Let them figure it out. But all I knew is that you know, Grizabella was beautiful at one time.

[20:15] Yeah. I didn't know why, I didn't know what she did. And I knew that people shunned her.

[20:21] Yeah. So that would be what a kid would think, right?

[20:27] Yep. And that's kind of all you need to know, right? When you're playing your character, you don't need to go any deeper, because you're just supposed to be mischievous and causing problems and trouble versus having any say in the jellicle choice.

[20:39] Right. What would a kitten or a child comprehend?

[20:43] Yeah. So that's how I looked at my character. You know, that would be, yeah, that was my point of view.

[20:52] We're going to take a quick break, and then we'll be back for more of The Wrong Cat Died. I want to ask a little bit about when you had a different Mungojerri. How hard is that, you know, if someone swings in or you change over the years, how hard is it to adjust in something that is such an intimate number that you do eight times a week with the same person to have that kind of flip for somebody new for one show or a couple of shows in a row? How do you as a performer make those tweaks to be able to handle something like that where it almost breaks your norm and your routine?

[21:28] You know, breaking norm and routine is not a bad thing when you do eight shows a week, right? I remember the director saying early on that you're going to be doing eight shows a week and that everything might become tedious after a while, and you're going to look for something to go wrong or something. Because you have to kind of find something new for yourself, even if the audience doesn't see it, to keep things going, right?

[21:57] Yeah.

[21:59] Sometimes you can say it could be as small as, you know, pretend you had a cocktail before you were dancing. You know, something as small as that can change how you perform, but the audience wouldn't see that. It just gives it a little element of something new, right? So another Mungo would be that something new. And of course, everyone that was playing the show, and of course the swings were excellent and amazing performers. So it was easy to transition with that. Of course, you have a slightly different connection, but the number still comes across, and you're still working together and creating mischief together. Of course, the cartwheels can get the horse. So that's the one thing that you have to practice.

[23:03] Yeah. Although I will say there's a fun moment, because I know you like fun moments here, with my original Mungo. It was a particular... I don't know, we were being silly before we even got on stage, right? So we get on stage and we're kind of... It was a different lightness that night for some reason. And we're building up the number, you know the number builds up and builds up and builds up. And we were having so much fun that when we get to the cartwheels, we're doing the cartwheels and we fall out of the cartwheels halfway through, because we're giggling and we're laughing. And it was funny. And then we run to the front and it was actually just the way it was supposed to be, because it was just lighthearted and fun, but it was... Yeah. We didn't make it all the way across the stage. We didn't. Yeah, I think we did three cartwheels or something.

[23:58] Enough that the audience gets their view of it.

[24:03] Yeah, and then it was like two kittens having fun. So we just felt... Which is the point, right? That's the number.

[24:07] Yeah. That's a great segue into, I love hearing fun stories. What are the other memorable tour stories that you vividly will never forget?

[24:23] No pun intended. My memory's not serving me now.

[24:26] Yeah.

[24:30] When I think of that, if I think of something, I'll bring it up. How about that?

[24:31] Okay. Because it's me right now.

[24:35] Yeah, yeah. I mean, I remember just in general, I was so lucky to be in the cast I was, besides starting out with them. And believe it or not, this doesn't happen all the time, from what I've heard. We connected, the whole cast. And we are still friends. And we adore each other. And there's just a magical connection between us. And I think that transcended onto the stage, which is what made our production quite special. Of course, all the cast are special, but I really felt that ours is special because we just had a bond that we can't make up. And yet we still see each other a lot. We have reunions. And so that was my introduction to Broadway. It was this type of cast. And then I was lucky enough to even go on to another show, Gypsy, and had the same experience. But I have heard that some casts, they do their show, but they don't connect.

[25:49] Yeah. And we just did.

[25:52] As I've talked to more and more people, not just in the cast world, in the Broadway world, it seems like there is certain runs of shows or shows or tours where it's work. And there are others where it's really, really a family and fun. And I don't know if it's just related to the people you're with or certain conditions or maybe the way the tour's put on or something else that goes into it. I have noticed that it seems like a higher, like disproportionately high number of Cats tours have had that family feel. And I'm wondering if it's because, as you said earlier, 10 minutes into audition or into your rehearsals, you are lying on top of each other. And it's almost kind of like, I think the way the show is built and just the way you have to perform together on stage, the ball is so intimate.

It's going to be a lot harder to treat that as just a job because you are a lot closer. Whereas other shows, you're working together, but you're not fully lifting and dancing on top of each other nearly as much. And so I've always wondered that if it is because of the way the show's composed, that it does seem to skew higher or if it's just great, great casting where you're casting a really good caliber group of people who, who form bonds and are able to connect in a different way with each other in the audience.

[27:21] I would say that that's true. Well, it's a combination. But yeah, I could say that, but then in Gypsy, it's not the same. It's really a few-person cast, you know, where Cats is an ensemble. So that's an interesting thing to look at.

[27:44] I do remember two funny...

[27:45] Oh, let's hear them.

[27:46] So one is, we had a bus fire.

[27:48] A bus fire?

[27:49] Yeah. I think it was in Nashville. We did fly there and then we got onto, we all got onto different buses and one bus had my luggage on it, let's tell it from my perspective, and I was on another bus. And so there was some casting crew on that particular bus and then we're all driving to the hotel and then one of the buses caught fire. Luckily, everyone got out, but it was on the news, it was on the local news. And so I lost all my clothes, which we were only allowed to bring two suitcases, which makes sense throughout the entire tour. But yeah, everything was gone. An entire bus cargo essentially gone.

[28:36] Was it your clothes? Did they lose any costumes or anything too that made it kind of a scramble?

[28:42] No costumes. No, this was all personal things. The musicians lost some stuff, you know, they had their things on there. But yeah, so there was a fire and it made it into the news and you could probably find it online.

[28:59] Mike Abrams: What was the other one? Shoot, now I forgot that one.

[29:03] Nancy Melius: Okay. Well, if you remember, we'll come back to it.

[29:07] Nancy Melius: It was the theater, I think it was in Pennsylvania because it wasn't that far from New York. And I remember that being important because a lot of times we weren't that close to New York where people that we knew could come see the show easily. So, but it ended up being a highly, the theater was highly patroned by subscribers. So, there were a lot of older patrons that would see the show. So, we didn't get good reviews there because sometimes just, you know, it's not the show. It's not us. It's just, it's not their thing. So, they weren't crazy about the show in general. And so, we knew that, right? We had that in our mind. We were only there for a few days, but that was in our mind. So, we're dancing one day, we're doing a show.

And almost at the end of the first act, we see people getting up and walking out of the theater. Do they really know what gives that much that they're getting up in the first act? So, we're all still dancing and we'll kind of have our eye looking at the audience as we're doing the show, trying to figure out what's going on until one of the cast managers said, there's that moment where you just sit down and he says, stay, just stay, don't move. So, we stay and then we find out there was a fire outside in the lobby. There was two fires or a fire alarm went off or something. So, they were getting up to leave.

[30:51] Mike Abrams: That is crazy. Yeah. So, I'm originally from Indiana. I do live in New York now, but I have been with my, my mom's a subscriber to the Broadway tour and goes to all the shows and she loves, loves this. But I have been with her too. And I'm not going to say which Jukebox Rocks musical it was, but I went to one that did not do as well as the show. And I watched probably, I want to say 30 or 40 people, all above the age of 60 or 70, get up within 10 minutes and leave. And just like, this isn't a show for me. And I was fascinated by it because I liked the band that this was about and I was enjoying the show, but I also was like, I can kind of understand that. And they have season tickets for all the shows and they just go.

But it is an interesting one because Cats is polarizing. Cats either has people that love it or hate it and kind of no middle. And I can see that being a subscriber one, but it's, it's crazy to hear that. You're all thinking, oh man, this wasn't, wasn't for, this was just the bad audience. It's like, no, there's a fire outside. We probably shouldn't be getting off stage.

[32:10] Nancy Melius: Yeah. It's funny. Those are two funny memories. Those are, those are as fun. It's such an interesting thing to hear because it's live theater, so much happening. And it's just like, what do you remember and sticks in your brain from years later, but let's do some fun questions. My rapid fire questions here to kind of bring us home. So if you could go on for one night for any cat, forget age, body type, dancing, singing, male, female. If you could just do one performance for one night as one cat, who would you want to go on as?

[32:40] Nancy Melius: Hmm. I would love to be the white cat, but I don't have that extension, but let's pretend I do. I asked this question as someone who can do none of these. So I always like to know just what would be the one. So that's the, I don't like how it'd be an incredible one to do. And I want to be able to do this.

[32:58] Mike Abrams: Yeah. Who are your favorite and least favorite cat characters from the show? So remove the people, which cat bugs you in which one do you love?

[33:09] Nancy Melius: Well, the Macavity of course is the one that no one really likes. Well, some people do some of the women that are, you know, the sexy women, they can't help themselves, but the one I like the most, I like Gus. All right. He's sweet. He's like an old grandfather. You know, this is hopefully a good sign for my, my last question.

[33:36] Nancy Melius: Yeah. But I did like Bombalurina too. Yeah. She was fun. And I did kind of admire her as a, you know, as like a young girl kitten say, you know, that I could grow into being someone on down Bombalurina.

[33:56] Mike Abrams: Definitely. What's your favorite song from the show?

[33:59] Nancy Melius: Besides Mungojerrie and Rumpelteazer, I think of course "Memories" is the crowd pleaser and it is a beautiful song. So it is my favorite song. I listened to the lyrics again before the podcast.

[34:17] Mike Abrams: Yeah. No, I mean, it's such a powerful song. So it is great. I, my, when I first started doing this, my answer to this question was "Mungojerrie and Rumpelteazer" for ages. It's just so fun. And it was stuck in my head again for weeks.

[34:30] Mike Abrams: Okay. I always ask one fun question. I had a different one written, but based on your stories, I feel like I have to ask this one now. Which cat do you think would be the best fireman? Cause you've been, yeah. Cause your, your show had fire issues left and right. If we, if we were, if we were going to have to hire one of the cats character wise to be, be in charge here of putting out all these fires that your, your tour was having, who would be the best at it?

[35:00] Nancy Melius: I think, yeah, I think Mungojerrie was, I was thinking, um, and he was handsome too. We had a handsome.

[35:07] Mike Abrams: Yeah. Okay. Yeah. So he fits the stereotype for, for firemen. Okay. All right. Million dollar question. I've argued at length that I don't think Grizabella should be the right choice. So I want to hear you, Nancy, if you are putting on your Old Deuteronomy hat and you're going to get to pick the cat to go to the Heaviside Layer, who are you picking and why?

[35:28] Nancy Melius: Okay. So I actually did some research on this to bring back my own memories on this. So if I were Old Deuteronomy, I would be looking at Gus or Grizabella. Right. And, and it would be a toss up. Um, Gus is weak and yeah, but he loves to tell his stories and could he last another year? And, you know, he tells the same old story all the time, all the time we go around and sit around and listen to her. Right. So he's loved and Grizabella's had a hard time. She's maybe, we don't know why she's where she is. She said, and Old Deuteronomy probably does as a kitten. I don't know. I'm sure the old cats know why she's, she was once the glamour cat and now she's worn and tattered and, and did she wish it could have been anything from circumstances to her own doing.

Did she make bad choices? Did she, you know, why was she the glamour cat? Well, you know, what type of glamour cat was she an actress? Was she, you know, so did she lose her beauty and then couldn't handle it? I mean, there's so many ways to look at that, that you don't know why she is where she is. So that all I know is that we, that, that the adult cats don't want to have anything to do with her. Right. So I just follow along.

[36:56] Nancy Melius: Okay. Yeah. Um, but so she's, she's made some bad choices or was, or was given bad circumstances that put her where she is. And I think that she's probably the best choice because she can come back in a new life. Cause that's what the song says, right? She's going to come back and have a new Jellicle life and she needs a new one. Gus. Yes. He needs a new body. Right. So he's like come back, but, um, he could probably last another year and I would guess that he would be the next year, the cat chosen for the next year.

[37:38] Mike Abrams: Yeah. Okay. So you have, you had it as a two-person race and you've got, you've got, you're picking Gris over because the need is there more. So here's my question for all the Grizabella choices is when Old Deuteronomy picks, does he have the same criteria every year? Or is he kind of making this up on the fly each year based on what the cats need? Because I've always thought about if Grizabella is the choice and, and there's the fairness of like, that's a redemption story. And I totally get her argument. Is there another cat that was exiled that's coming back next year or is it a different decision criteria next year for the Jellicle choice?

[38:18] Nancy Melius: I think it would be a different criteria. I think Old Deuteronomy is very wise and all-knowing and watching over everyone and, and forgiving. And, um, I think he would decide what would be best for, I mean, there's someone, another cat could, something could happen to another cat, not just age. Right. That might need some, a new life, right? We all have nine. So, um, I don't know which one Grizabella is on.

[39:00] Mike Abrams: Yeah, for sure. Right. So, but I would say that he has different criteria every year.

[39:06] Mike Abrams: Okay. So here's my question. My, my kind of fun version of this. I know as a kitten, Rumpelteazer is not making an argument for being the Jellicle choice. What would your argument be if you wanted to say, hey, consider me this year. Pretend Grizabella doesn't come back. And Gus has got at least a couple more years in him. And you're like, why not? Why not us? Or even both you and Mungojerrie, what would your argument be for why you two should go? We should go. We should be chosen to come back in a new life.

[39:35] Nancy Melius: Uh, so maybe we could be, I don't know what would be our argument. Oh, we're having too much fun in this life. So, you know, unless I wanted to come back in sexy Bombalurina, but yeah, that would later on down the line. So that would be kind of a selfish reason that it wouldn't really be a good argument that Old Deuteronomy would, would buy that. I want to come back as the sexy cat. Selfish, very selfish reason.

[40:08] Mike Abrams: I'm ready for, for this version. I think the argument I could make for you all, and it would be hard because it would be Macavity would probably fit this argument too. And more is if you're doing what's best for the tribe and not necessarily what's best for that individual of like the, the Heaviside Lair is a redemption story. And the one we get to see, but if it's a, we're just going to do what's best for the Jellicles, then probably getting rid of your villains and your mischievous, you know, ones that are causing more problems than they're helping might be a way to kind of help the tribe as a whole. But I would say you'd probably choose Macavity before you choose Mungojerrie, Rumpelteazer, who are, I would say mischievous more than bad.

And so, but that would be my argument of a, okay, let's, let's reward us as a way of like, we're so tired of these, these two troublemakers. We're going to get them out of the way and maybe they'll come back as, you know, more angelical cats.

[41:10] Nancy Melius: I think they, they tolerate us, the rest of the tribe and they, and Old Deuteronomy would certainly give us time to mature. So we'd have a little bit of time to mature and be guided by the rest of them. So there's hope for us, but yeah, we would give childlike excuses as why we should be chosen probably because we don't know where we're going, but yeah, we can come back as what we want to come back as. But also it looks like an awful lot of fun going up on the big tire, right? So as a kitten, I want to go up on that tire. I don't know where it's going or anything like that, but why can't I go up there? It looks like a fun ride, right?

[41:51] Mike Abrams: Yeah. I, you know, I loved one thing you said earlier about this kind of conversation with Grizabella that is so interesting is you do embody your character so much that you're like, as a kitten, I didn't even know what she did that was bad. Like, I didn't even think about it. Like the, the adults did that for us. And so it is such a, like a, you know, you, you embody your character there versus kind of saying, all right, let me assess this whole story from start to finish. It's like, no, you got to stay in your Rumpelteazer mindset.

[42:26] Nancy Melius: Yes. I love it. She's not that deep.

[42:28] Nancy Melius: Yeah. Smart. She's smart though.

[42:33] Nancy Melius: Yeah. Cunning and witty. And she tries to outsmart Mungojerrie.

[42:41] Mike Abrams: Love it. Well, this has been so fun. Uh, thank you for taking a trip down memory lane. I didn't realize I was going to have you have to reminisce all these fires in your life. But, uh, it's been fun to hear about your experience and, um, how you've thought about the show's Rumpelteazer.

[42:56] Nancy Melius: Thank you, Michael. This was a lot of fun.

[42:59] Nancy Melius: It was great to go down memory lane. I appreciate it. Loved having you. So thank you. And thanks everyone else for listening to this episode of The Wrong Cat Died, the podcast breakdown, the cast atrophy to follow along. You can subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or any of the rest of us in the podcast. Follow us on Twitter, Instagram, TikTok, and Threads at The Wrong Cat Died or check our website, The Wrong Cat Died.