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[0:00] Mike Abrams: Welcome to The Wrong Cat Died, the podcast based on the CATS atrophy. I'm your host, Mike Abrams, and today we have another amazing guest. She was Cassandra on the US National Tour 2 in LA and then on US National Tour 4 multiple times. And it was also Cassandra on Broadway in the original production. So welcome, Leigh Webster, and thank you for joining me.

[0:36] Leigh Webster: You're welcome. Nice to be here. Thank you for having me.

[0:38] Mike Abrams: Excited to have you. I love chatting with, you know, you've done so many different productions, you've had so many different cast mates, which I think is fun to hear the different story arcs that you have to play in the different relationships you get to play with so many, you know, actors that you get to perform with. But we got to start at the beginning. You did in the LA sit down production, which for some reason is still called the US National Tour 2 without touring. Right. But this predates the 1998 movie. This is almost like it's pretty early in CATS' run. So what was your familiarity with the show before you were able to book it and got the role?

[1:17] Leigh Webster: Well, that's okay. So for me, I started out, actually, I worked with T. Michael Reed, who was the dance supervisor for the company's Broadway and all of them. And I had worked with him in A Chorus Line, and he had called me and asked me to help him with the auditions in L.A. when it came in. I guess it was 1985, I want to say. But so I said, okay, I'd love to. And I wanted to be in the show, of course. So I was actually auditioning while I was helping him with these auditions that lasted probably a whole week. It was huge in L.A., was probably, I want to say, over 500 people in line outside of the audition hall just wanting to get into audition. So it was a huge deal in L.A. at that time. So I was unfortunate enough to be a part of that whole process.

But also I was nervous because I was also auditioning for the show, too. So and they didn't tell me anything until, you know, the very end of the auditions, whether I got the part or not. So that's how I got Cassandra originally.

[2:24] Mike Abrams: Wow. Yeah. Were you familiar with it at all or was this just you knew T. Michael Reed and this is a big audition?

[2:29] Leigh Webster: I had seen it. Yes, I had seen it. So I was, I loved it. I can't say I loved it, you know, as maybe how you were saying what's going on. But it was just such a unique experience in the theater with, you know, the sets and the whole all the set coming out of the in front of the proscenium and engulfing the theater. So it was just a whole new concept. And of course, the dancing was spectacular and that intrigued me. So that's how I first, you know, kind of thought, I'd love to do that show. So, yeah.

[3:09] Mike Abrams: Wow. So you saw one of the Broadway productions.

[3:14] Leigh Webster: I saw this. I did. I saw the original production.

[3:20] Mike Abrams: So you get the role. You're in L.A. Walk me through what they tell you, if you can remember about because what's the backstory you're given? How much information are you given at that point beyond the dancing and singing and staging?

[3:24] Leigh Webster: Right. Well, you know, I was the only furless cat in the show. She is a Siamese cat. So that kind of it speaks for itself as far as character wise. You know, she was Sinoise. She was fierce. She was unpredictable. A lot of different, you know, aspects of a Siamese cat, you know, that kind of thing. So as far as the background, a lot of our background, we did a lot of working together, crawling on the floor, all that kind of stuff, any kind of movement with being a cat, that kind of thing. So but as far as my character, I mean, that kind of developed as we went along, I'd say.

[4:15] Mike Abrams: So I think you have the this is one of the things I find most fascinating because you got to play Cassandra some with for years, but with different people each time because you did it in L.A. and then you went on the fourth tour, then you went to Broadway and then back to the fourth tour. How does that story arc evolve as you get to kind of like play with different characters and different actors that might have a slight different interpretation of what Cassandra is versus the previous person?

[4:43] Leigh Webster: Right. Let me just back up a second because I did the L.A. company as Cassandra the whole time and I was assistant dance captain. And when I finished that company, when that company closed, I helped CATS for Best in Truck only as a dance captain. So I was. Yeah. So I kind of stopped completely performing and helped put that company together. So that was a whole feat in itself, you know. So that was about a year and 10 months on the road as dance captain. I think I went on a couple of times. I went on a couple of times. Yeah, I was thrown in, I think, a couple of times. And so and then I went to the Broadway production and because I was still, you know, fairly young. I was maybe, I guess, twenty-eight, twenty-nine.

I wanted to still perform. So they had asked me if I wanted to come to Broadway. And so then I went and did Cassandra on Broadway. So there was a little gap in between, you know, companies and productions where I was performing and not performing. So, yeah, that's how that happened.

[5:49] Mike Abrams: As dance captain, who did you go on for when you kind of got thrown on that fourth tour? Was it a different cat every night or was it only Cassandra?

[5:53] Leigh Webster: Only Cassandra. Yeah. Yeah. And it wasn't until later that you swung and got to cover Bombalurina.

[6:04] Leigh Webster: Yeah, I covered Bombalurina on the, I didn't, did I go in on the fourth tour? I might have got thrown in once, once or twice, but it was, it was on the L.A. Company. I believe I went in. I only went on a couple of times and it's Bombalurina. So, yeah. Okay. When it was like really needed because they already had, we had already understudies that were covering those roles. I was like a third cover for that. Emergency only, you know.

[6:27] Mike Abrams: Emergency. Something has to go real wrong for you to really be on.

[6:32] Leigh Webster: Exactly. I want to hear a little bit about being the dance captain on tour, on the fourth tour, but not really going on. What does that like role entail and the life entail of doing that? Are you just constantly teaching people who are coming in and out of the show? Is it also making tweaks to the dance? Like what does that role do mostly on tour?

[6:55] Leigh Webster: It's a good question. It encompasses quite a bit because, yeah, after setting the show, it's really important. And Jillian Lynn, you know, really wanted things really specifically as far as the choreography. So it was definitely a certain, a certain way to keep it clean. You know, I was constantly giving notes every night to the dancers because, you know, as you remember, the show is just, there's so much going on, you know, and it's a hard show to keep clean. So that was a big part of it. And also being responsible for rehearsals, setting rehearsals, being responsible for the understudies coming in. So I definitely was in the studio a lot, you know, they'd be, you know, during the day, everybody be off, I'd be in the studio, teaching the understudies the show, that kind of thing.

And also, you know, would be with the bus and truck, we'd be traveling quite a bit going from theater to theater, and each theater was very different. So, yeah, we had to adapt to each theater because we can't, we would start, we would start the show in the house. So we'd be coming down the aisles, as you remember, around, you know, through the audience and stuff. So each theater was different. So we'd have to map that out each time too. So that was a little, you know, I'd have to get there and map that out and things like that.

[8:18] Mike Abrams: Yeah. So when you're doing traveling, like, what is studio? Is there a studio in each city that you're kind of renting? Or are you using the stage when it's not being used? Like, it's so foreign to me, and it's kind of fascinating. So that's why I like this question.

[8:34] Leigh Webster: Yeah, no, that's a good question. We would always have to book somewhere. Yeah, we, the company manager had usually did, or the stage manager would help out with that. You know, finding a studio available. I would help out with that too. But yeah, they'd always be in a studio. But we would have to be on stage, it would be important for the dancers to, of course, do the movement on the stage. So we'd have to have that time. But you know, a lot of times we'd be two days in a city, three days. So, you know, the set has takes a while, the trucks would go before us, and they'd set the setup. So we couldn't always be on the stage, you know, but we would have a dress, not a dress rehearsal, but an understudy rehearsal once a week.

And that would give the opportunity for the dancers to be on the stage and actually rehearse on the stage. So that was, that was important too. So they could actually be together. And we would actually run the whole show on the stage at least once a week.

[9:35] Leigh Webster: Wow.

[9:36] Mike Abrams: Yeah. So daunting task.

[9:39] Leigh Webster: It was, it was a lot. I was constantly in a studio, basically. Yeah. Either there, or at the theater.

[9:46] Mike Abrams: Yeah. It's a different environment. I was like, I think if you're in New York or in Broadway, it's like, you're going to the same place. It kind of feels almost like an office. Like, you know, where we're going, but in a different city, you've got different space. You've got different setup. You've got to find the area. And then you're only there for a day or two. It's like, let's move back to a new place and start this all over. So it's gotta be pretty crazy.

[10:07] Leigh Webster: It was a lot, a lot of, a lot of moving parts for sure.

[10:10] Mike Abrams: As dance captain, how much did you try to not influence, but you know, the character stories and you try to like, say, okay, here in that movement, this is why you're here. And this is why you're doing, did you kind of lean into the story aspect of all this? Or are you purely technical dancing, making sure the right place at the right time with the right?

[10:30] Leigh Webster: A little both, I would say you'd have to kind of connect the two, you know, it was always, there were reasons why you did certain things, you know reasons why there's a lot of things were happening with the sets, you know, you know, Rumpus Cat would be jumping up and coming out from underneath the stage, all sorts of technical, technical things going on. So yeah, I, you know, and I would delve into the character somewhat for them, you know, as much as I could and, you know, help them out in that way. My risk, my responsibility too, we would have just cat sessions where it wouldn't really be choreography, but it would be, you know, trying to physically be a cat because, you know, it was, it was a lot on your body.

And there are ways to get up and off the floor correctly, you know, without hurting your lower back, things like that. And making yourself look like a cat coming up from fours up to two feet, you know, that kind of thing, jumping, jumping onto parts of the set was,

[11:27] Mike Abrams: You know, it's a little tricky. So, we had ways of teaching that and doing that.

[11:35] Leigh Webster: There are a couple of things that I... I'm asking this because I have my own personal answers to this. Okay. Are there a couple story arc moments that as you're introducing a new cast member to the show, and you're kind of working with them in the studio, where they're like, that's the story? Really? That's the thing? What were those things for you where every time you had to be like, yes, this is the backstory here, or yes, this is that moment in that dance? Because I can tell you a couple that I'm thinking of, but I'm very curious to hear, is there a consensus around the performers of like, oh, I did not know that.

[12:12] Mike Abrams: Right. Are you speaking specifically in a certain part of the show?

[12:17] Leigh Webster: I'm thinking all of it. Mine spans all of it. Well, I have to say, there's a lot. There's, you know, it's this group of poems that were put together, you know, that didn't make a whole heck of a lot of sense, right? So, we did our, you know, they did our best as far as connecting these little stories together as poems, you know, poems, connecting them together with music. So, I mean, Grizabella, let's talk about that. I don't know if you want to yet, but, you know, hers wasn't even in the book. So, you know, hers was just kind of wrote in there. So, but I don't know if I answered your question well, but.

[12:58] Leigh Webster: I just, I think as I learned more about the show, there were a couple where I'm like, oh, Demeter's story. Oh, Victoria's coming of age story. Things that I don't think you recognize, or most people probably don't recognize just watching on stage the first time, because there's so much else going on. It's kind of hard to piece all these things together. But then if you're talking to a former Demeter or former Victoria, and then them saying, this is what I had to embody every night. I'm just so curious. It's like, do those, do most performers come in knowing these things? Or is it a, wow, I would have never thought that I didn't know that now I've got to perform every.

[13:39] Leigh Webster: Yeah, and it's something that you kind of ingest as you go, you know, with the show, because there is so much in it. And it's, you know, there, everybody sort of like, comes together as a tribe. And yeah, they learn things, I think, from other people that have done the show before and things like that. So yeah, I mean, I think that it does take a while to get all that stuff together. You know what I mean? How, how early and how quick did you feel like you, you figured out? Because like, was it in LA that you kind of like, I really understand her story and her, her cat? Like, was it in Broadway or years later?

[14:15] Leigh Webster: Yeah, that's a good one. That's a good question. I was lucky to work with Jillian because she put our show together. So that was really helpful as far as the physicality and all that stuff. And, you know, I, I, in LA, I, you know, I was, I was, I don't know how to say it. But, um, you know, even though I didn't have a big role, you know, I, I made an impression on the stage. We'll put it that way. Yeah. So I think it's just my, you know, I'm tall girl, big girl. And, you know, I guess when I did get to New York, you know, New York has had done it for so long. We had Marlena Danielle there who'd done the show since the beginning. So it was really fun to work with her. Uh, and it did have that feeling at the winter garden, you know, uh, that real connection with, and with the set and everything. It was great. Loved working there, but yeah.

[15:21] Mike Abrams: Oh, so let's pivot to that. Uh, tell me about how Broadway came about. Was it an audition that you went to? Was it a, you, you know, this like as dance captain, we need a Cassandra come. Yeah. What was that experience like?

[15:32] Leigh Webster: Yeah, I was lucky I didn't have to audition. That was a good thing. But, um, I had done the, you know, the bus and truck for about a year and 10 months and it was kind of, I was feeling like, and I think they knew it was kind of my time too. I was kind of wanting a change, you know, and we, we discussed it, we talked about it and they, and the opening was there and said, you want to come and do it? And I said, yes. And that's how it happened. So, and what's that first time being in the winter garden? Like, uh, it was, I had so many people sending me flowers that opening night because I'd left the tour, you know? So I must, my dressing room was so filled with flowers and it was, it was an amazing experience. It really was. It was exciting. Uh, everybody was really welcoming there and uh, really enjoyed working there. I was there about a year, I guess.

[16:19] Mike Abrams: Yeah. Okay. And how does that differ? I mean, when you're, when you have the ability, like the stability of being able to be in the same theater at night with mostly probably the same cast and castmates versus the like up and moving and tweaking and figuring out the slight nuances to each stage. Like how does that, how does that make it easier or harder in certain ways?

[16:41] Leigh Webster: That's a good question too. Um, I think when, yeah, in New York, you know, you have a life, a little bit more of a life, uh, other than the show. So, you know, when you're on the road, you do form a really strong bond with the cast members. You know, you are family, a lot of relationships start, you know, a lot of long friends forever, that kind of thing. And, uh, in New York, you know, you still, while you're doing eight shows a week, you're able to have a life during the day and, you know, you're not just on the road, so to speak. So it is different in that way. Um, uh, but you know, it can't say which one I like better, but no, I love being on Broadway cause I had my life as well. And, you know, it was just great being there and just being in the city and, you know, going into the winter garden and yeah, that whole, that whole feeling.

[17:30] Mike Abrams: Did you, did you feel a difference in the show dynamics? Like there's obviously the life dynamics, which is very fair of like having stability, having probably having more of a routine and friends and family versus being your family, just being your castmates basically, who's on the bus with you. Um, but what about in the show? Like, is it, does it feel different with that change of scenery every week or a little bit different by being in a stable one place at the same time?

[17:56] Leigh Webster: Um, I guess probably I felt better because, you know, I had, I had that time to take class, maybe stay strong in my body, you know, was rested, not rested. I shouldn't say that because it's hard, but I, you know, I was able to get massage, you know, that kind of saying every week we, everybody got a massage if you want it. Um, I just, you know, felt better, uh, as a performer there than, you know, being on the road and, you know, having to deal with the traveling and this and that. So it was probably a little easier to get on the subway and come to, yeah, come to the theater and then go and then perform right that night and that type of thing. Exactly. I actually rode my bike to the theater a lot too.

[18:45] Mike Abrams: What about audiences? Did you notice a difference in tour and audience versus Broadway where, you know, tour there's only, you're only gonna be there for a week or two days, whereas Broadway, you know, it's, it's always there. And it ran for so long. It really was felt like it was always there. It was always there.

[19:03] Leigh Webster: A difference with the, the audiences on the road, I have to say were very, well, a little bit, you know, a little bit more excited. I would, I would say, and maybe because I got to the, you know, caps a little bit later than in the beginning of the run, that could be too. But, um, I was lucky enough to, uh, you know, like Johnny Cash saw the show when I was there, the winter garden, I got to crawl up against him. Uh, Lorna left quite a few people. So Sammy Davis was a big one in LA. He loved cats. Do you remember Sammy Davis? Are you too young?

[19:35] Mike Abrams: No, no, I definitely did. He came to the LA. He would come quite a bit and he'd come backstage. He'd love to come backstage and chat with everybody and watch everybody put their makeup on and then he'd go out and watch the show. Yeah. He went a couple, came a couple times. Yeah. He was, he was very nice, man.

[20:04] Mike Abrams: Yeah. That's cool. So just we're sitting in there getting ready for your show and he'd come back and walks this. Yeah. We're going to take a quick break and then we'll be back for more of the wrong cat died. I think one of the most fun parts about hearing, getting to do it in so many different settings in LA, doing it on tour, being behind the scenes on tour and on Broadway, what are some funny memorable moments of the, like, I'm never going to forget, you know, it could be as silly as this person fell or this thing broke or this thing didn't happen. Or as you know, like other parts from just very memorable moments like Sammy Davis jr. Or Johnny Cash.

[20:30] Leigh Webster: Yeah. Oh gosh. I have to think there are, there are quite a few. Um, um, just things that happened with the set, you know, uh, I remember Rumpus cat was supposed to come out of the floor. He didn't. So somebody else steps in things like that. Um, you know, the trap door wouldn't come up. Um, anyway, uh, I'd have to think about this for a while. Nothing that just like jumps out as the, uh, I'll never forget. There were so many, I usually have people that remind me of these stories, you know, I'm not really good.

[21:07] Mike Abrams: Who else was, um, you, you mentioned Johnny Cash, uh, and Sammy Davis jr. Are there any other celebrities that you're just like, couldn't believe when they showed up backstage or that maybe saw you on Broadway or in LA?

[21:20] Leigh Webster: I'm sure there were some, Oh, in LA there. Yeah. You know, there were a lot in LA actually. I can't remember who, but, um, that opening night was pretty amazing. Yeah. There were quite a few people there. Uh, you know, I can't remember, but yeah, there were a lot.

[21:36] Mike Abrams: Be your dream, uh, celebrity to show up today. If you were,

[21:41] Leigh Webster: Oh gosh. Uh, I don't know. Barbara Streisand. No, I only mentioned that. Cause some of that, some of the, uh, some, a friend of mine, I were talking about her the other day. So I mean, let's see if we can get her. She, she could come. She, she has a new book.

[21:59] Mike Abrams: Yeah. That's what I was talking about. That's what I was talking about with somebody. Yeah.

[22:04] Mike Abrams: Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So I want to hear a little bit about the transition from Broadway back to the tour, the fourth tour. Cause you went on, uh, in the nineties, right? Again. And then tour Broadway tour, if I'm correct.

[22:17] Leigh Webster: Yes. You're right. What happened was I, um, whenever they needed me as a dance captain, I jumped in. So I went, that's what happened on, uh, the fourth company, I went out there for about six weeks, eight weeks, maybe no, a little longer, about three months. Yeah. Uh, because somebody left for a while. So I jumped in until somebody else came back, that kind of thing. I did that with Broadway. When I left Broadway, I came back quite a few times, jumped in. Uh, if somebody was pregnant and I went back in, you know, maybe I was the one going back in three or four times, you know, emergency speed.

[22:54] Mike Abrams: So when you're getting called in to do these quick jump in dance captains or emergency covers on Broadway, what is that preparation like? Because it's one thing when you're doing it over a period of time. It's another thing to be like, we need you for two weeks and come in. Do you come in and go right into the studio? Or was there a lot of muscle memory of like, I still remember most of this?

[23:32] Leigh Webster: Oh, yeah. I still remember all the choreography probably. It never goes away. I mean, I don't know if I could do it, but it definitely never goes away. But I would definitely have to take that time though, because you don't want to screw anybody up on stage. So you'd have to remind myself of when I need positions and things like that, who's around me, that kind of thing. But I would get my book out, in other words, and figure it out. I wouldn't just jump in.

[24:08] Leigh Webster: No, I mean, physically, it's so difficult. It's probably not easy to just stretch one day and go in and do it. It's got to be some practice that goes into that. But yeah, there is also the story arc of the things of like, you're going in and do you kind of remember, oh, I got to do this here, or I've got to be here for that moment. I've got to have the look over to this cat at this point, because that tells part of the story. I would almost wonder how much of that is just burned into your brain versus the, okay, I got to get back into the swing of this.

[24:45] Leigh Webster: Right. There are moments like that, like you're saying, that are important in the story, or not that there's a big story, but you know what I mean? Moving forward, that you have to make sure you're on the right spot, you're looking over, whatever it is. So there are cues that are important, for sure.

[25:06] Mike Abrams: So last question, before we go to some rapid fire, I want to ask you, what relationships did you play mostly with Cassandra? Who was the cat that she most related to, spent time with, family with, dated? How did that kind of come around, as you thought about doing it for so many years?

[25:28] Leigh Webster: I would say the closest on stage would probably have been Bombalurina and Demeter. Not that they're a trio in any way, but yeah, they're sort of similar cats in a way, same age, that kind of thing. I would say Victoria as well, would relate to her. Yeah, that's probably what I would...

[25:52] Mike Abrams: Any male cats? Like, was there any, we might be dating, we might be flirting? Or how much of that is thought? I just love going back to the, how much of this is thought through versus how much is just naturally happened?

[26:06] Leigh Webster: Right, right. I think there are some subtext with it, Demeter and Macavity, and Bombalurina and Macavity. So yeah, definitely, I would say Cassandra and Macavity as well, okay. Somewhat, so, but yeah, it is, there are some subtext there with the other cats, each cat.

[26:30] Mike Abrams: Yeah, what prevented you from going down the dark Macavity rabbit hole?

[26:36] Leigh Webster: Well, they wouldn't let me, would they?

[26:38] Mike Abrams: They protected you. Okay, let's do some rapid fire. If you could go on for one night as one cat, doesn't matter if it's male, female, in your vocal range, whether you could or couldn't do it, if you could just perform one night as one cat, who would you want to go?

[26:56] Leigh Webster: Wow, nobody's asked me that before.

[26:59] Mike Abrams: I think a lot of my questions, most people probably haven't asked.

[27:02] Leigh Webster: Yeah. I wouldn't mind trying Jennyanydots. I know that sounds weird, but it's so opposite of what I would do, you know, and it would be fun, you know.

[27:17] Mike Abrams: Get a little tap.

[27:18] Leigh Webster: Yeah, she was fun and, you know, I don't know, that would be really fun. I mean, I'd always love to have done a Victoria, you know, performance as Victoria too, but I was never that type, but yeah.

[27:32] Mike Abrams: I love it. Okay, who are your favorite and least favorite cats in the show? And I'm going to say characters as in their personalities and any performers.

[27:41] Leigh Webster: Oh, okay. My least favorite. That's a hard one.

[27:51] Mike Abrams: There's got to be one that bugs you.

[27:53] Leigh Webster: That bugs me?

[27:54] Mike Abrams: Yeah, like which personality if you were hanging out with the Jellicles, which one would you be like, this one's...

[28:00] Leigh Webster: This so annoying, probably Skimbleshanks, I guess.

[28:02] Mike Abrams: Skimbleshanks, okay. Love it.

[28:04] Leigh Webster: Love Skimbleshanks, but he's so annoying.

[28:08] Mike Abrams: I love it. What about favorite? Who are you gravitating towards?

[28:11] Leigh Webster: I sort of love Cillabub. She has that angelic, you know, voice and just sweetness and yeah.

[28:19] Mike Abrams: Okay. What is your favorite song from the show?

[28:23] Leigh Webster: My favorite song? I guess Gus the Theatre Cat.

[28:29] Mike Abrams: Gus, okay. That's hopefully a good sign for my last question. I always ask one fun one. And since you got to be a dance captain for many years, which cat do you think would be the best dance captain? Like if you had to just throw a cat in the run, cat show or any show as a dance captain, who would be your top choice?

[28:48] Leigh Webster: Probably Victoria.

[28:52] Mike Abrams: I was thinking Mistoffelees for some reason.

[28:53] Leigh Webster: Yeah, that's true too.

[28:56] Mike Abrams: I like you Victoria. Okay. All right. And our question.

[29:01] Mike Abrams: And our question, I have argued at length that I don't think Grizabella should be the right Jellicle choice. So someone who has years with the show on it, behind the scenes, you know, it in and out, you know the choreography still today. Are you going to pick Grizabella as your Jellicle choice or are you going to send to the Heaviside Layer?

[29:24] Leigh Webster: Well, that's an interesting perspective. I haven't really thought about that.

[29:29] Mike Abrams: So you do not think she should have gone. Do I get to ask why?

[29:34] Leigh Webster: I will answer why after, if you would like, because I can walk you through some questions on how to come to your answer if you don't have one directly.

[29:43] Mike Abrams: Right. Okay. So somebody other than Grizabella.

[29:48] Leigh Webster: You can pick Grizabella, but then I'm going to ask you a lot of reasons of why you think she deserves choice.

[29:53] Leigh Webster: Okay. Hmm. That's a good question. I kind of feel just naturally that Gus or Deuteronomy, that's the obvious choice that would go to the Heaviside Layer.

[30:08] Leigh Webster: I like other than Grizabella. Gus is the number one choice after Grizabella.

[30:15] Mike Abrams: Oh, all of my guests. Old Deuteronomy is number two after Grizabella of all the choices. So those are very common.

[30:21] Leigh Webster: Okay.

[30:22] Mike Abrams: And I think the question that I would ask, and the question I always wonder is, what is Old Deuteronomy's criteria?

[30:26] Leigh Webster: Criteria for being the one to go up?

[30:29] Mike Abrams: Choice. Yes.

[30:33] Leigh Webster: Oh, well, he's older, you know?

[30:41] Mike Abrams: Sorry, let me rephrase that question.

[30:43] Leigh Webster: Okay.

[30:44] Mike Abrams: What would you, if you're Old Deuteronomy, each night that you get to do this once a year, how are you making your decision? Do you have a criteria? Do you have a set of guidelines? What does that look like?

[30:57] Leigh Webster: As Deuteronomy going to the Heaviside Layer or as me?

[31:01] Mike Abrams: If I'm Old Deuteronomy and I get to choose, I get to choose. The version we get, he chooses Grizabella.

[31:08] Leigh Webster: Right.

[31:09] Mike Abrams: But in other versions, why Grizabella over Gus or why Grizabella over himself?

[31:15] Leigh Webster: Right.

[31:17] Mike Abrams: Good question. I don't know.

[31:20] Leigh Webster: I'm not sure.

[31:22] Mike Abrams: Okay.

[31:23] Leigh Webster: So I can give you a little bit of like-

[31:25] Mike Abrams: I'm only saying I think he should go instead of Grizabella because he's older and he's kind of ready to go. That's my thought on that.

[31:34] Leigh Webster: Okay.

[31:36] Mike Abrams: Yeah.

[31:38] Leigh Webster: So you think Grizabella should come back as a Glamour Cat?

[31:41] Mike Abrams: I think she should come back and go the year after. I think that she should be next year's choice because the redemption story still works, but she can spend time with the family and that she doesn't need to be immediately sacrificed. And so I think that that is my main reason why and that's why I would send Gus.

[32:02] Leigh Webster: Why over Deuteronomy?

[32:03] Mike Abrams: So that's an interesting question is why over Deuteronomy? The part for Old Deuteronomy I don't know is what is his- like who takes over? Is he ready to take over? Like when does he get to go? Because I do think he's in that conversation, but I don't feel like he's ready as ready to go. Whereas Gus I think is kind of at the tail end of his life and might not make it to another ball as much as he like relives his past. Old Deuteronomy seems kind of like he can live forever and eventually he's going to decide he's the choice.

[32:35] Leigh Webster: Right. I kind of feel like Gus is probably more to go than Old Deuteronomy for sure because Old Deuteronomy is sort of- he's a big part of the tribe as well, you know? And maybe Gus not so much.

[32:51] Leigh Webster: I think whenever Old Deuteronomy goes, we get a different tribe. It's like a new leader. It's a new member and there's still obviously the tribe, but he's been at the helm for so long that when he gives up the reins, you're going to have some fresh perspective coming in.

[33:11] Mike Abrams: And who would that be?

[33:14] Leigh Webster: Isn't it Monk? It kind of seems like the answer is Monk.

[33:16] Mike Abrams: Maybe Monk. Yeah, you're right, Monk. I was going to say Mistoffelees, but Monk. Yeah, Monk makes more sense for sure.

[33:23] Leigh Webster: But this is what I've debated with everybody for months on end and I'm slowly getting more and more- Grizabella still has the majority of the votes. She's still about half, but only half in a show where she 100% of the time gets to go. So I feel like I'm doing the Joker Lord's work slowly.

[33:42] Leigh Webster: You're doing some justice.

[33:45] Mike Abrams: Yeah. This has been-

[33:46] Leigh Webster: Interesting.

[33:48] Mike Abrams: So fun.

[33:49] Leigh Webster: Oh, so great. Thank you so much for having me.

[33:51] Mike Abrams: Yeah, thank you for coming and sharing your experience. It's really cool.

[33:55] Mike Abrams: And thanks everyone else. Yeah, thank you. And thanks everyone else for listening to this episode of The Wrong Cat Died, the podcast breakdown of the Cats Ashby. To follow along, you can subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or any of us who listen to podcasts. Follow us on Twitter, Instagram, TikTok, and Threads at TheWrongCatDied or check our website at TheWrongCatDied.com.