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[0:00] Speaker 1: Hi, I'm Ariana Grande, Hi, I'm Cynthia ARIBO, and you're listening to the Broadway Podcast Network, visit vpn.fm to discover more. There's a cat over here. There's a cat over there. I'm a wrong one died. I'm a wrong one died.

[0:28] Mike Abrams: Welcome to the wrong cat died. The podcast. Break down the cat's atrophy. I'm Rose Mike Abrams, and today we have another amazing guest. You probably have seen one of her many viral cats, tiktoks, since nearly everyone she posts does extremely well. I cannot wait to talk to her, because she has one of my favorite ones I've ever seen. So welcome Nina strafaci, and thank you for joining me.

[0:47] Speaker 2: Hi. I'm so excited to be here. I am really

[0:51] Mike Abrams: excited because I want to talk about the very first Tiktok that you made, that I saw at least. And I'm not on Tiktok that much. I didn't, I kind of barely use it, just mostly for the podcast. And I remember at the Met Gala, somebody dressed up in a full cat seat. And I had the same reaction that you had of a wow. This is cats like, well, this is cats at the Met Gala. And you posted this really funny. This is the Welcome to the jello ball. And it went super viral. And so I want to know, like, I want to start there, because you're obviously a cats fan. How did you decide, hey, this is it's time I got to post this. Like, was there a lot of thought that goes into it? Was it just a This is funny. I'm going to post it.

[1:40] Speaker 2: So when it comes to tick tocks, I realized that I am more strategic than I might come up. So it's the Met Gala. We're looking at the celebrities arriving. I know the theme is our Karl Lagerfeld, and I think I saw doja cat arrived first, and everyone was talking about how Karl Lagerfeld had this cat. I'm so sorry I forget her name, so I don't want to mispronounce it. The first doja cat comes up. I'm like, That's so typical. That's typical doja cat and Jared let her showed up in the full cat scene. I knew that. I was like, I have to make something because I have an account that is mostly dedicated to theater, and I know that when it comes to what gets popular on Tiktok. So the Met Gala, that is something that videos about the Met Gala, they're going to do well and cats, although it is musical theater, which is typically regarded as like, not that popular cats on Tiktok, it is a popular topic. And so I was like, I have to make a cat stroke before anybody else does because I can't, I can't look like I'm copying anybody. So I make it. And it ended up being, at the time, my most watched and my most liked video ever. And wow, the official cats, the musical Instagram, did reach out to me and asked me to repost it, and they said that they would give me credit. And that is how it happened. It was a mixture of like a spur of the moment idea, but also a slightly strategic idea to be like, well, this is a video that might do well, because it is two topics that they are a little bit popular on social media. So I I knew that this will get some traction, but I didn't know that it would get that much traction. So,

[3:44] Mike Abrams: yeah, I so that's it's really interesting you were watching. Were you watching, like, the red carpet for the Met Gala, or was it just watching on social media? Stuff is popping up?

[3:54] Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that's how I do it. I don't watch it live or anything on social media. There's a couple accounts that I follow that will post updates of like, this person's here in this outfit, and this person's here in this outfit. Um, the one thing I do regret about that tick tock is lil NAS X also did have a cat, a cat inspired look, and so I did not put him in the tick tock, but I mentioned him in the

[4:18] Mike Abrams: comment. Okay, he could have, could add a couple couple more jellicles in that video.

[4:23] Speaker 2: Yeah, I do have some unfortunate news about that video with the most recent deal with tick tock and UMG. So a bunch of music is getting stripped off of tick tock right now. Yep. And a lot of my videos, a lot of other creators videos, they're getting muted because of whatever music was used on it, and the cats one got muted, and so I had to replace the sound. And so now there's just a different song over it, and you can't hear my voice anymore. So I am a little sad that one of my best videos ever so got kind of warped.

[4:58] Mike Abrams: Yeah, I noticed. Because I went this morning to see how many views I had, and I clicked on it just to watch it again, and I was like, it's silent all because of the music, but that is it's own beast of a conversation. I'm sure that's happening absolutely All right, we're gonna come back to Tiktok, because you've had a couple other recently, but I want to talk first about your cats fandom. So when was the first time you saw the show, and how did you get into

[5:23] Speaker 2: it? Okay, I've been prepped in for this because it's kind of a long road about how I got into it. Okay, so I have to, before I get to catch the musical, I have to talk to you about a book series called warriors. I don't know if you've heard of it. It's okay,

[5:41] Mike Abrams: not familiar. I'm not familiar. So

[5:46] Speaker 2: this, this is a, it's a book series. It's called warriors online. Now, if you look it up or try to watch any social media video about it, they'll call it Warrior Cats to make it simpler, just different. They do this, whatever. So Warriors is a book series about feral cats that live in the woods, and they all live in different clans. There's four different clans in this in this book series about feral cats, and it's just kind of about the socio political ongoings of these clans of cat. But the thing about them is they have their own unique naming system. Spirituality is a very big theme of the entire series. They talk to their ancestors. They get prophecies from their ancestors. They have leaders, and these leaders live multiple lives. It's canon that the leaders have several lives. And in this book series, every month, all of the cats gather under the full moon to talk about the ongoings in their clan. So I was a fan of this book series when I was a pre teen, I've always loved cats as the animal. I've always been like a girl that loves cats. My cousin got me introduced to this book series. We read it as pre teen. So there was a precursor to me getting into cats the musical because they might as well be the same thing, the Venn diagram between the Warrior Cats fans and cats the musical fans as a circle like, yeah, I see.

[7:26] Mike Abrams: I Alright, so I'm looking this up because I'm not familiar as we're talking. And this book series started in 2003 Mm, hmm. And the the first thing on the Wikipedia page here is inspiration and origins, and nowhere in that entire paragraph does it say cats a musical, which should be inspiration, because everything you just said is cats the musical, literally,

[7:50] Speaker 2: it's like, it's actually insane that there are two entities out there about, you Know, the ongoing just like the lives of cats that's mystical, slightly magical, super dramatic, but no, not related to each other at all.

[8:10] Mike Abrams: And this is origin. Is the UK yes, there's nothing about TS Eliot. Nope. These people straight ripped cats, and, you know, don't want to give credit. I think I bet they don't recognize that one of them went to see the show, probably on the West End, or a tour, and then, like, a week later, had this book idea, and was like, here's my brand new thought. And did not piece that together, but there's 123456789,

[8:38] Speaker 2: books here. Oh, there's a lot of books now. So the way that they come out is they they call them series. So in the beginning there was like six books to a series, which would be like one story arc, and then the next six books would be a different story arc. And so the plot does progress. I stopped reading them a long time ago. Okay, they're still following because I looked it up the other day to prep for coming here and making sure I had all the right information about the series. Yeah. I'm like, Oh, my God, they're still publishing books. It's been 20 years. Where's a

[9:12] Mike Abrams: starless clan 2024 has recently come out. Yeah, I'm fascinated by this because it's to your point. It is. It sounds identical, and that's okay. So you read those, did you see the show like? Then you're like, Wow, this is what I read growing up. I'm in.

[9:30] Speaker 2: Oh no, I didn't make this connection until not that long ago, actually, wow. Okay, so my introduction to cats, the musical, I knew it through cultural osmosis, because by the time that I was conscious, it was a cultural phenomenon. It was born in 1999 so okay, I knew that there was a musical called cats, and sometimes on TV they would mention it, and that's really it. But in the year 2011 i. I was at my grandfather's mountain cabin, and he had a bunch of VHS tapes, and one of those was cats, and we put it on, and I remember the opening number, but not like, I didn't remember the music, but I remember, like, okay, yeah, this is a musical. This is the opening number. But then the cats, they just kept singing. I was like, Wait, when are they gonna start talking to play like, why? No, they're talking. Cats introduced me to the concept of a song through a musical. And at that first viewing, I don't remember paying that much attention, because I went they're not when are they talking? I remember the cavity was the bad guy, and I remember Mr. Mustafa Lee's number because I could not get that music out of my head. That was the first time I ever viewed it in 2011 and then a few years later, we're off at the cabin again. This time, I'm more of a theater kid. I'm in high school, and I'm like, let's watch it again. Let me watch it all the way through, and that, that was it. That was the end of it. And then I became, I was absolutely obsessed with it. That

[11:09] Mike Abrams: was your hook. So the first time, it was a, what is this? But it's fun. And then the second time, it's, it's personality, it's part of your being. It

[11:18] Speaker 2: became part of my being. Yes, um, I started sitting. Oh, sorry. Say,

[11:24] Mike Abrams: Have you seen it live? Is the question, okay, how many times three? Okay, but

[11:30] Speaker 2: I have only seen Andy blank and Bueller's revival version.

[11:36] Mike Abrams: Me too, me too, live. So I'm in the same boat as I started. Didn't even know about the show. I'm in the same way as you as like I knew about the show because it's referenced in TV shows and made poked fun at and, you know, everyone knows memory. So I kind of have seen, like the Friends episode, where they make a catch joke and stuff like that. But I never seen the show, or even could have told you it was about and had not read the Warriors books. So I was less familiar. But then I got here to New York, and it was revived, and that's how I was introduced to actually seeing I had not seen the 1998 like the rest, because I'm not a theater kid. I grew up playing hockey. Grew up go, you know, playing sports, and just that was not a VHS that made it into our rotation or into our household. So I hadn't seen that movie until right before I was going to actually tackle this podcast. And I said, it's time to watch it. And I was on a work trip, and I was on a plane, and I had it on an iPad, and I got the weirdest looks as I sat on a plane, flying in business casual with watching cats on my iPad with everyone else working. And I was like, No, this is, this is this is research. This is work. But, yeah, so you're in the same boat that you've only seen Andy's version live, but you've seen the 1998 movie probably a lot, yeah, and let's get into your like thoughts on the show. So I've obviously tackled this from a totally different angle, as someone who wasn't a super fan, but came in being like, what, what am I watching? What just happened? And so I'm always interested, of like, what parts of the show resonated with you most, or, like, Did you immediately kind of take to in this kind of crazy chaos of a story that's not spoken but loosely written for you? Yeah,

[13:21] Speaker 2: I've been thinking a lot about that, the getting ready to come on here, because I was like, What? What do I even like about this, other than cats the animal? Because I have always liked cat, the animal. I other than my predisposition to stories about mystical cats, I called my best friend because my friends, when I was 18, got me tickets to see the revival for my birthday, and that was the first time I saw the show live. My best friend did not like it, but I loved it, so I think one of the reasons that I enjoy it so much is other than the dancing, because I do love dancing, that I just love musical theater is because I really enjoy character driven stories. It's something I've realized about myself is I enjoy characters, and I enjoy analyzing characters, and I enjoy analyzing their relationships to one another more than, and especially in the story of Catholic more than the actual story or the actual plot itself. So that's one reason I think that the show really resonates with me. And the other thing is, I'm a very music inclined person, so sometimes I have a hard time like remembering lyrics, because I'm so focused on the music, though, and I think with cats, it's just it's music that I enjoy, it's pleasant to my ears. And so that, paired with the fact that this story really does rely on. The characters and how the characters are portrayed, and the relationships in between them. I think that is part of the reason why I love it so much.

[15:07] Mike Abrams: It's so interesting, because I I'm like the exact opposite of you in both of those aspects. So it's not the my my love for cats is very different for cats is the ability to analyze it in such a unique way, more so than probably the story, because I grew up loving sitcoms and rom coms and all these like very neat and tidy, predictable stories. You know that you're going to start with a, you know, an introduction, you're going to have your little conflict, you're going to have your resolution, your story lines are going to close in a nice, happy way. And that's the opposite of character driven cats, where it's much more of a ambiguous family type of piece. And I'm also the opposite. In I can remember most lyrics, but some of the music, I'm like, Yes, I'm a little bit more on the lyric side than the music side. So funny to hear you say that, because we're like, the exact opposite. But so when you watch the VHS and you were there? Did you resonate with a certain character? Like, was there one cat that you were like, especially the second time, or, as you've watched it more, where you're like, all right, this is the storyline that I've the character plot of that I've really loved, or I've understood most

[16:14] Speaker 2: I have to think, because I'm blocking this into re watching in 2015 becoming obsessed, and then following the revival, as the revival was getting put together, and then getting to see the show lives a couple times. So my favorite number in the show and my favorite characters, or two of them, are Munger Gerry and rumble teaser, that's the number that I went back to so many times. That's the number we're watching this so I'm like, Okay, we're so close to mango. Jerry and lump the teaser, everybody be quiet. They're about to come up the state. I don't know what it is about that number that I enjoy, maybe other than the acrobatic tricks, I like that they're funny. I like that they're mischievous. Um, there's them. You love Rum Tum Tucker, as every month everybody does. And oh, because I'm looking at him on my mug right now. Monkey strap, I know this is my favorite characters, and not so much the character arcs per se. But so

[17:25] Mike Abrams: let me, let me ask a different question. Though, when you watched it as a because if I'm doing my math, right, you're around 12, then you watched it around 18, and you went to see it around 18, right? So if that's my or maybe 1216, 17, see it around 18. Yeah, the first time you watched it, obviously you didn't even sound like you watched the whole thing with your with your grandfather. It was kind of at the cabin. You watched some of it. That's kind of an age where some of the sexual nature of this might have been recognized. But then, as an adult like, you know, you're definitely picking that up the second, third time you're seeing this. So did you notice any more of those, like with multiple viewings? Because one, it's hard to catch it in the first viewing. Anyways, it's such an overwhelming show to watch. But then as you start watching it, more and more, you learn more and more. Did you start to pick up on some of the like, weird and dark story lines that kind of come with the show?

[18:20] Speaker 2: I would say I probably did not pick up on that part of the story until seeing the revival, or just following along the revival as they pieced it together. So like the first two times to watch the VHS, no, I think it right over my head. Yeah, you have to be, maybe you just have to be in the room and really know what's going on, to understand that they're all mating with each other. They legit. They do a mating dance. So the because the three times I saw I saw the revival in 2016 and then I saw the tour when it came to Philadelphia in 2019 and then again in March of 2023 so that's those are three times, okay, but yeah, as a preteen and teenager, I don't think I was thinking about that at all. I was thinking about, Oh, my God, look at the costumes and the dancing and the music and oh, that's what this show is about. I didn't pick up on that when I was 12, but the revival and then seeing the tour, so like, Oh, this is absolutely what's going on. I mean, yeah, this is why people love them to come talk.

[19:32] Mike Abrams: Yeah. My other question I want to ask, because I also love Mungo general teaser, is, did you see the 2019 movie as somebody that. That's one of the songs that's dramatically different because they brought the old British version back. Yes,

[19:47] Speaker 2: I will tell you, this is something of the bingo. So that version of the song, the original version of mongodzer, the jazzy version. I do not mind that on its own. I. Still think it's a good song and it's fun. I do prefer the version that they brought to Broadway and the version used. I was surprised that that is the version that they used in the movie. I wonder what the decision making process going into that was. So I wasn't shocked, because I can't remember if I looked up what version they were using before I saw the movie anyway, but I was like, Oh. I was like, okay, they used this version. That's fine.

[20:30] Mike Abrams: I didn't know there was another version until I saw that movie. And I was like, Huh, that's kind of, that's very different. And then I, you know, I was with my producer, and I kind of turned and looked at him, and I was like, did you know that there's another version of song, and he knows cats a lot less too, then, especially that was early in my show, so I really didn't know much at that point. I was still learning this stuff on the fly, and we both had to look it up, and we're like, Nope, that's a that's the original. It's the very first version. And so it kind of threw us off.

[20:59] Speaker 2: Yeah, there's a lot. There's Yeah, between the London, the original London show, and the original Broadway show, of course, because I'm thinking about just the cast reporting specifically here. I've never really watched any footage of those two original the Mungo Jerry and rope teaser were in the original London production, and it was that version. And then when they brought it to Broadway, they started out as a puppet show that the cats put on for Old Deuteronomy. And that's when immersion we know now that is where that came from, because if you listen to the original Broadway cast recording, Mr. Mustafa Lees is singing Mongo Jerry and rumble teaser, they're not singing about themselves. I don't know where in the shows run that the two of them singing that song together came in. But originally, yeah, it was muddy.

[21:54] Mike Abrams: Yeah, I think so. I'm trying to remember if I read, I've read a couple books about cats at this point now, and I think there's some some conversation about the original choreography was too difficult to really do and sing at the same time. I think, I think that was a big part of it was, could you do all this stuff and actually be able to sing well, to sing their own song? And so they had the other cats singing it while they did the dance number. And then over time, I think, I don't think they made it easier, but they probably made it to where, at least it was possible to have have that. But I've also noticed there's the original Broadway cast album. It's just Mongo Jerry sing, right? And then now you get both cat singing, so you get some of that mix of how it's evolved over the years. Yeah, I I want to hear a little bit from you about like, as a fan who watched it, grew up with it. You've listened to a few episodes. Is there anything I've said in this show? I'm now 150 plus episodes, and we're pretty deep into this, but early on, it was a lot of stuff I was kind of making up, probably actually full on making up. But is there anything that you've heard or just lure that I'm so wrong on, or that the fan base is so mixed on that there's no like, right answer, and you're like, This is my version, but I actually hear other ones, because I've heard a lot of these, and I've never got a definitive answer.

[23:18] Speaker 2: Okay, yeah, I'm gonna think back to a couple. I'm gonna think back to some episodes that I've listened to the past couple weeks. The one thing that was said on here, I can't remember who's said it that I really liked and haven't thought about before, is the idea that Victoria is has is the cat that was chosen as the Jellicle choice last year and is reincarnated. I thought that was very interesting and very interesting way to look at the story, because she is a pretty central character to the show and to the story. And I think that adds an extra layer as to why, why we pay attention to the white cat so much, why she's so much that one I I was like, Oh yeah, that's really interesting. I've never, I've never looked at it that way before. Something that stuck out to me is, I think it was Haley fishes episode, who played rumble teaser in the revival. I saw her as Rumpel teaser in the revival, and she said that Mongo Jerry and rumple teaser are not siblings, and that rumple has a crush on. And I went, Oh, whoa. I fully believed that they are twin, twin sibling. So,

[24:33] Mike Abrams: yeah. So that the couple that I was thinking of that I don't think I ever get a straight answer on, and a couple I've thrown on social media and have got a 5050, vote split is that one is Mungo, Jan rebel, teaser, so are they siblings, or are they trying to be together? And then there's kind of this belief, at least the tour you saw the second year, they kind of believe that Jenny was the mom of one of them, and the other was trying to, like, win them over. So I think it. As crumpled teasers, maybe mom and mango Jerry's trying to, like, win her hand and trying to impress mom. The other one is bomb Valley, Rena and Demeter as sisters, friends, lovers, like, where do they fall on the spectrum? And that's another one I've got zero answers to.

[25:18] Speaker 2: Yeah, I because I've been watching some 98 clips and watching a Bucha of their 2016 revival, and trying to look at their moments together after hearing that question asked on the podcast, and my conclusion, maybe friends. I don't think that they're sisters. They don't read as sisters to me, so maybe friends, maybe lovers. Like, I'm not gonna say like, Oh no, they're not in love, but I'm like, I don't think they're related. Yeah, the vibe I get is not they're not related. Just, I mean, because with Macavity, when I think of their number about the cavity, they're singing about, like, their relationship with their history with this one guy. I'm not saying that sisters can have dated the same guy. I'm sure it's happened. Like, I think because of the song, I'm like, Nah, I think these are two girls that may be bonded over track in the cavity, and now they're friends, and mainly, I love it. I

[26:26] Mike Abrams: agree. So that's, that's where I fall on that spectrum, um, but I remember so vividly I posted, I don't even remember what the joke was, but I posted a their lovers type of like, tweet joke, and it's probably the most comments I've ever had on Twitter, because I don't use Twitter for the podcast very often, and it was a bunch of people mad. Being like that. Can't be they can't be lovers. They're sisters. They're like, are they though, like? And then I threw it up there, and I got a 5050, split, which is part of what I love about this show, is that there isn't a definitive answer for so many of these things, because the choices are made by the performers in the relationships that they have with the people on and off stage, which I think is a really cool piece, absolutely,

[27:08] Speaker 2: yeah, and that, again, like, I think that's one of the reasons why I enjoy it so much, is because this show is purely an ensemble piece, like every character that's on that stage has an extensive history, and it's not just them as the actor coming up with that history. It is like production history, like every person on that stage, they are important to this story. They have a math story, like they have a purpose. Because I think that maybe not, I don't want to say modern musical theater, but maybe just the way that I've gone up with musical theater and do it is the ensemble. Sometimes the ensemble gets forgotten, you know, and or they don't. They don't get thought about as much. And with cats, it is the ensemble. Like, it's about the ensemble. And I think that's another reason why I think it's a great I think it's a great show.

[28:12] Mike Abrams: It's such a good point, because there's such a, you know, not everything. There's a it's a wide range. Broadway's so big, but there's a lot of the like, here's our big name principle, come see us, to see them, you know, like, type of thing. And there are less shows that, I think are about the whole group where, you know, you don't throw maybe you get a big name Isabella. But for the most part, you've got 2530 characters on there. Phantom kind of felt similar, where there's just a humongous cast, and it's lasted for so long that you kind of wonder, like, why more things haven't evolved to be that way? And it's maybe it's just a period of time in a peak and valley. I've not been that close to Broadway for that long to know full history and following it, but I do think that's a really interesting point of that. I got one more question before we go to back to tic tac. Yeah, you said that your best friend went with you, yeah, and on the live revival viewing and hated it. Yeah, two questions here. One, what did they hate about it? And two, have you spent all since that moment, the last was that eight years trying to convince them that they're wrong.

[29:21] Speaker 2: Um, so I think this. I'm trying to think back to this conversation when I was like, I'm going on this cats podcast, and I need I'm like, why did you not like cats? Because I know that she was going to give me a good answer, like an actual and she told me that the way that I am musically inclined, in the fact that like the sound of the music, the melody of the music, is what my brain will gravitate towards. She is the opposite, and she said it was just hard to follow. She was like, I just didn't love the music in general, like so for her, I think she said it was hard to follow, didn't really love the music. I'm. Where she just said that, like, the story is kind of weird, but, yeah, that it was that kind of she gave me that I feel bad. I can't remember it worked weird. I'm sorry, Katie, um, but it was more than I don't know. It's just weird and it's bad and it's not cap.

[30:17] Mike Abrams: That's why I asked, because that's most of the time I don't get a real thoughtful answer. I gotta, I just didn't enjoy it. And then as I ask more questions, it can't really go deeper. So that is interesting, because if someone is lyrically inclined, I think there are some it's probably hard to catch in a live viewing, because there's so much going on that you've got the whole incredible stage. You got the really costumes, especially in 2016 they're roaming around in the audience with you in the beginning. But the lyrics are really impressive, because they are TS Eliot's poems. And when you start listening to some of the songs, there are some kind of funny moments. So even for a lyrically driven person, I'm like, there's some stuff there. But I do think it's overwhelming, if you're, you know, if it's essential sensory overload, for sure,

[31:05] Speaker 2: yeah. And I think, you know, maybe there are just some people that they're not cat people, as in, cat the animal people. I do think it's totally valid to be like, I don't know. I just didn't like it, you know, I don't think everyone needs to have a full on dissertation as to why, or why like Why or why not. I guess that they don't like it, because sometimes maybe I just like this because I do, and maybe someone else doesn't like it just because they don't. But as I've been in the theater world and in the theater social media world. After a while, I just got so sick of the like, oh well, everyone knows that cats is bad. And I'm like, why? Yeah. And like, Um, yes, thank God. About again. I really do think the Warriors book series that was just a predisposition. I was like, I'm, well, I know. I'm a fan of this, this type of storytelling about cats with really weird names and, you know, their omens and their prophecies and their reincarnation, because reincarnation, that is another thing that happens in the Warriors book series, too. Um, there are some characters that do get reincarnated. They get brought back to life. Yep, they're warriors.

[32:23] Mike Abrams: They have to have some, some murder in there. I'm sure. Oh, there's a ton of murder. I feel like I need to read this book.

[32:30] Speaker 2: Yeah, read or, you know, maybe you don't have to fully read, um, but, oh no, there is murder, there is betrayal, there's like, there's dictatorships that happen like, literally, socio political, like ongoings with feral cats that live in the woods, um, and just like cats the musical, you know, this sounds like a book series that is not popular with everybody, but the people that that are fans of it are dedicated. They are dedicated fan. There is a very dedicated warrior cat fandom with YouTube fan animated series, and I don't know, tetra bites of art.

[33:16] Mike Abrams: Okay, we're gonna convince, we're gonna convince this fan base to pivot over to cats and musical. I It

[33:23] Speaker 2: would be an easy transition, because my cousin that got me into the book series, when I got into cats, I was like, Oh, you love this. I want this. This is just warriors, but on stage and their names with

[33:33] Mike Abrams: music. It's warriors with music. We're gonna take a quick break, and then we back for more of the wrong cat died. Okay, I want to go back to tick tock, though. I want to hear a little bit about you said that. You know, it's, you do have a plan. You do, like, there's, I think tick tock is such a instantaneous. Just throw up what you're thinking when then I know that's not the case. And a lot of time and effort goes into this. So I'm curious to hear about for cats specifically, when you have an idea for a video that's going to be cats related, how do you decide, like, this is what's going this was coming up because you've posted a couple before. We're recording this. This will come out a little bit later, but a couple have come up recently where they're pretty funny, cats related stuff.

[34:19] Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, once we, once you invited me to come on, I feel like I've been doing this, like, secret meetup too, on the podcast, because I kind of, I got back into listening to the show and back into watching stuff about the show, like I went and re watched the broadway.com Once with Tyler Haines, which we haven't talked about yet, But we've been so cats was on my mind. And there is something I maybe it's an algorithm thing. Maybe it's the fact that cats is a popular topic on Tik Tok, and you wouldn't think that it is, but when I make a tick tock about cats the news. Musical it does well, and I can, I guess I can explain it, but I also can't. I think it's because it really is so specific. It's such a specific niche, like even in musical theater, it's very specific. But I think just broader, on Tiktok as well, and I think the 2019 movie had a lot to do with cats a meme, because it's a meme to tick tock. It's a meme. And for sure, so with that, and because a lot of the videos that I have made about cats that have done well, they are in the they're a tick tock trend. Yeah? Like, I make it as whatever Tiktok trend is going on at the time. I think that's one of the reasons that those videos tend to do better than some other ones that I make. So, um, let's see, like the Met Gala one, like it was the Met Gala, that hot topic. Cat, yeah, that's gonna be a hot topic. Yeah, I have, I'm trying to think of another one that I've done that was in line with the trend. Oh, there was a trend last year. There was this sound effects board. It was like a sound sound effect board thing. And one of the sounds was, it's called the vine boom, but it's like an explosion sound. So the trend was someone going, Oh, you're literally my dream girl. And then the person would say all of these negative things about themselves and use that sound effect. Oh, yeah, I do remember that. So I made one that was like, I love cats. Like, no. Ironically, love Cassidy, yeah, lots of musicals like, so that one did pretty okay, because trend, or there's another one I have remember that Kevin James picture was really Yes, popular in the fall, yep. And the trend was people at the party looking over at the speaker, like, who put this song on, Kevin James with me next to the speaker, and so I did skimble Shanks, because skimble Shanks, to me, is the, I think it is the public's favorite song from Catholic not memory doesn't count, because memory kind of became like a mainstream song, Yeah, but in terms of songs from the musical, personally, I think that skimble Shanks is the most popular one, because skimble Shanks is regarded as the best part of the 2019 movie.

[37:32] Mike Abrams: I agree with that. Yeah. And so that's why you, you went from Taylor Swift to skimble Shanks in the car the other day. I saw that one. And then, oh yeah, the

[37:39] Speaker 2: backstory behind that one. Okay, again, I don't know if I'm like, revealing myself to be, like, calculating or a fraud, but a lot of the stuff that I post, even the cat stuff that I post, is kind of strategic, and it's planned. It's not, not all of it is spur of the moment. Like the idea I'll be like, Oh, I should do this cats video. But I was like, I gotta think about it. So the video I posted in the car, that's one that is doing much better than I thought it was going to so my sister, my younger sister, is doing the Disney College Program, and I had to drive her down to Florida to move her in. And one of my other friends came along the trip with us. And the night before we left, I was like, wait, I have this idea. Okay. I'm like, so it'll start out as me in the car, and I'm talking about how morale is really low, and then I say, hit it, and then you start blasting skim to shakes, yeah, and then I, like, scream. Originally, I was going to take a sip of, um, I had, like, one of those double shot Starbuck espresso can, yeah, I was gonna, I was gonna, like, sip that and then scream. But I didn't want, uh, tick tock to think that I was being a reckless driver, yeah, well, I don't know if that was a really long winded explanation, but that is a planned video. And we waited until it was nighttime, and we waited until we were like, really long into the drive. And I was like, Okay, let's make it now. And it just so happened that one of the ways that we got ourselves through this road trip to Florida was we listened to every single Taylor Swift album in order, okay? And we had to kind of pause that. And I was like, okay, you'll film, but let me backtrack it just it got funnier with the fact that at that point we were just on one of Taylor Swift's sadder songs. And so the switch from evermore to skimble Set Shanks was so drastic. Anyway, yeah, my friend that was like, Oh, let me film the music playing on the radio and then that'll make it funnier. That's I loved

[39:54] Mike Abrams: it. I loved it because I immediately was like, oh, it's bomb ballerina. Like. Was, yeah, Taylor Swift is in the movie. Let's we went from cats to cats, but that's obviously not why you were going from Taylor Swift, the biggest pop star in the world, to skimble Shanks, yeah? Which is definitely a bop. It's a song that'll wake you up. I loved it. I do think it's interesting, because I you have i as much as a lot of the stuff that's either not perfectly curated, like, there's the content creators who spend all day, like editing and filming and like really putting together these movie quality videos. And then there's a lot like what you just said, which is, it looks a little bit more spur of the moment organic, but I'm sure none of it is, because even the few like, oh, I have a really good idea, half the time I throw a note down, and then I got to find a moment where I could actually film that or have this scenario. So I love hearing that. It's like, you were ready. You knew that at some point in this drive you were gonna need skimble Shanks, and that's a great video idea. And so it's like, let's just plan to get this ready to go, and then we'll throw it up there.

[41:02] Speaker 2: Yeah, and, and while we were driving, there's actually another video of me that my friend posted on her own Tiktok of champagne problems by Taylor Swift playing, and I am explaining the plot of cats to her in depth, because she actually didn't know. And so it's me saying, like, okay, so then Grizabella sings, touch me. It's so easy to leave me because she's so lonely. She's so touch starved that she just wants someone to touch her, and Victoria, the youngest cat of the clan, touches her and welcomes her back in. But it's what's funny about it. It's me explaining the plot of cat and a sad Taylor Swift song is once again, playing over but yeah, I think when it comes to content creation, especially with Tiktok, which brought a new wave of organic, looking relatable for of the moment content where, you know, if you think about the I'm thinking About the 2010 YouTube era, which was very pretty, very curated, very planned blogging style. And then at the end of the 2000 10s, is where that silly, relatable blogging style came in. I'm thinking like Emma Chamberlain, style of blogging, and then Tiktok comes along. I think that Tiktok started to get really, really big in 2019, and 2020, 19 and 2020, especially with the onset of the pandemic and so now, and I think just like the society that we're currently in, like our current culture is like, we don't want a lot of that pretty curated stuff anymore, because we know that it's not real and we want real people and relatable people. So I think that's what brought tick tock like all the way up to the top, and why so many tick tock videos, or tick tock creators who are known to to be like that do do really well. But yeah, if you want to, sorry, be a successful content creator. You do have to be smart, and you have to be strategic in certain ways. And it's, I think, extra difficult to be like, Yes, I'm being really, like, strategic. And I know that this is going to do well, but I still have to make it look like, I just thought about it two seconds. Yeah, is that

[43:17] Mike Abrams: for sure? No, completely. I mean, I think it's a it's such a weird world because it's such a different thing, especially depending on your like, what you know, millennials versus boomers and everything else. Like, the following of the of how that's like, that content is going as someone who's just seen some of the behind the scenes of that, like, I went to the very final bad Cinderella, and I watched after, when I walked out, and I knew some of the people that were there, like five people filming right outside the front, like, selfie style this. I'm like, There's no way they didn't come with some plan of, like, what they were going to say and then the moment they got to add from what they experienced. But there is that, like, I know before I leave, I have to do this. I have to have this plan. I have to have this going, because I need to do this in this location at this time, and ideally get it out within the next 24 hours or quicker. And so there are those moments where some of the stuff is timeless and some of the stuff is trends, and you've got to capitalize. But it's fascinating to me as someone who generally isn't on camera very much. So like, my Tiktok is mostly those green screen type of things, because, like, I have not done many where I'm like, All right, let me film me doing it. I have thought about some ideas of, if I want to tackle some more tiktoks, that of what I would want to do with it. But then every time i Same thing, I have the plan, I have the idea. And then I'm like, do I have the time to do this? Like, what am I? What am I gonna actually go do this? Wow, but I love the idea of how, honestly, I just love how many of yours, like, they always pop up quickly for me, which makes sense for my algorithm. And then I'm like, I'm always like, wow, this has already this many views and this many comments, and. They're things that I kept thinking are niche, like, you had one that was about Tugger and most awfully, his relationship. And I'm like, I've been making fun of that for a while, but like, how many people know that that aren't in the like, true cats fandom? Yeah,

[45:13] Speaker 2: and that's what I don't know. I'm like, okay, are the people that, the 1000s of people that are liking these videos of mine and commenting on the new videos I'm like, did this just find the circle of really, really dedicated cats fans, or is this more mainstream than I originally thought it was? Because my understanding for cats for the last couple of years was that people liked to hate on it, and people liked to hate fun of it, and there weren't that many people that actually liked it, or at least, like when I was in college, there weren't. So just see that like that, um, tug from estoppelies video, which, again, was another trend, and again, it got silenced. Um, yeah,

[45:52] Mike Abrams: I know.

[45:55] Speaker 2: Um, that did that got over 1000 likes within 12 hours being posted. And for you know, much bigger creators, that number is not going to mean anything for them. But to me, when I'm like, Oh, if something got to 1000 I'm like, this is doing well. Even if something gets to a couple 100 likes, for me, that's doing really well. That's why the Met Gala video with a that was at 177,000 and that was my first Tiktok within a million views too. That was so saint and like, Oh, my God, that video got saved by, um, you know, the Apatow Sisters of Judd Apatow father, so one of his daughters at saved that video to her favorites folder, wow. I was like, I've made it, yeah, niche internet, micro celebrity, which has been my goal this entire time. But, like, it is very interesting. And I don't have, like, I I do not know why the cats videos do really well, other than the fact that, well, I guess it's something that gets memed a lot, and maybe the algorithm knows that I make this kind of stuff a lot, and it pushes the cat stuff onto the free pages of other people. And that's, that's the explanation. Like even the video in the car, I didn't think that one would do very well, because I thought that people's attention Wouldn't they wouldn't pay attention to it long enough to know that the joke was going to be switching from Taylor Swift to blasting skimble Like I did that it would do well, and sometimes another thing I'll do with videos to boost them is the music that you put under them. So I tried to put skimbo shanks on that video and just turn the volume all the way down, but it didn't save. And maybe it's okay that it didn't save, because maybe it would have been silenced. Um, yeah, that's like another thing and that. And a lot of content creators do that, if you look at someone's video and see what song that they have playing under it, yeah, and it's muted and really hot song at the time they're doing it so that they can get engaged. And I'm yeah, that's why, yeah, there's

[48:07] Mike Abrams: that. And then they put the same hashtags or whatever that have nothing to do with the video, just to try to go, Okay, I want to go to rapid fire, because I want to get to our important question at the end here. So if you could perform in cats and go on one night, which cat would you want to go on? Is it's so difficult,

[48:25] Speaker 2: um, I think my top two performance wise, Rumble, teaser, or syllabu.

[48:34] Mike Abrams: Okay, I think you've answered the favorite cats, but I'm gonna ask again. So favorite cat and least favorite cat.

[48:40] Speaker 2: Okay, I do have a couple. I have to think about favorite like characters versus favorite numbers. But I have always loved monkey strap because I love sofa tabby cat, um, I love his, like, the authority that he has, but he also doesn't have. I think that's um, and I love rumble teaser, and I love Tucker, because who doesn't my cat also, kind of, it's like, Rum Tum, Tucker. Um, least favorite. My least favorite. I'm trying to think of, like, Okay, is there a character that I would just like, don't write, or don't care about or blow my eyes. You know, maybe I just don't have the least favorite, I guess. Like, I mix up carbuckety and tumble Brutus and palatable I can't tumble, like I watch the three planes, and I always mix up which of these tumbling male ensemble kittens is which I Yeah, for sure. Well, like, they're all, I think they are some version of brown and white, so I can't tell. Um, okay, that might be a disappointing question. No,

[49:51] Mike Abrams: I mean, it's, I think it's a I've, I've thought about more from the standpoint of, like, which one would you not like to hang out with? Yes, like their family member, you obviously love them, but there's the one that's like, Ah, this, this, this character again, is here, but I do think you, you're talking about the male kittens will solve that answer. So let's go to favorite song.

[50:13] Speaker 2: Okay, you go back to my notes again. It's, I have, like, multiple answers. Okay, my favorite musical numbers. They're several. I couldn't pick just one, okay, Lori and rumble teasers probably top after that skimple shape, it doesn't I love Dustin. I love that song on the opening number, again, iconic, and Tugger, it has great

[50:44] Mike Abrams: all great answers. I've asked this a lot now, and I've got a lot of different answers. But which cat do you think would be the best content creator? Like, who would thrive on Tiktok?

[50:54] Speaker 2: I think that Tyler Haynes proved that the Rum Tum Tugger is a popular content creator. Have you watched? Have you watched Tyler Hanes broadway.com box here,

[51:06] Mike Abrams: I've watched some of them. He was a very early guest on the show, and it was you I did in person. We got to do a studio when we had the studio pre pandemic, and so he was the nicest human. And it was so fun to have him on and he actually was able to answer a couple of the like theory stuff that I had read online that was fully related to him, that I was like, I think this is this theory exists because of you. And so like, can you clarify that? And he was so fun being able to do that. But yeah, he did that whole vlog series. And then another Tugger that did a lot of stuff, was the last two on tour, which Zach Bravo and Hank Santos both did a lot of stuff with Tiktok and Tugger. So I do think it's a very good answer for that question. Okay, love it. Million dollar question is, I've argued that I don't think crisbela is the right Jellicle choice, so I want to hear Nina, who are you picking? If you had the power you're a warrior cat and you have the power to make your Jellicle choice tonight at the ball.

[52:14] Speaker 2: I think it's Gus. I've listened to episodes. There's a lot of Gus. He's struggling. Let him go.

[52:24] Mike Abrams: I agree. Let love it again.

[52:27] Speaker 2: Let him be young and live again, literally like I did. Love, though I did love what Christopher said because I listened to from the 2016 revival cast, Tara Hayne, Christopher and Christine Quinn Smith episodes. Um, because I met two of them, two of them. And I do love what Christopher Gersh said about like, I don't even know if, if Gus should come back. Like, I think Gus soul is like, needs to go. And I do agree with that. But if I had to pick someone other than Grizabella, I think it's got to be Gus because, you know, another thing that I think about this show is these cats that are singing about themselves to be like, pick me, pick me to die. Sometimes I'm like, I don't know if they want to die. I think they just want to show up. I don't think Tugger wants to die totally. Tucker loves the attention. He doesn't want to die. I think Mongo, Mongo. Jerry rumple, teaser, they don't want to. They're not ready to go. Buster, he wants, he wants to keep his money. He wants to keep his clubs. He wants his food. Like he's why give that up? If

[53:34] Mike Abrams: you know what? I think, no, completely. I think there's a few cat race that you could, like, truly make the argument that they're really ready, and it's the way that the show is built. There's ages for them that they're supposed to be playing. And there are a couple that are older, and that's the group that really is singing for their their ability to go. That's grizzabel, August, Jenny mccavity, in a sense, and maybe one or two others, but, like, that's mostly it the rest. I think you can make arguments, but you have to have a different rationale for what the Jellicle choice means than what the most common version that is. Okay, yeah, so I love it. Team Gus. I'm hoping I keep track and I do post at, you know, milestone marks on on Instagram, the updates, and he just keeps inching closer, but he's not quite got past Grizabella. And I'm hoping that the longer I do this show, the more people I convince, the more people that now think about it, because I don't think anybody thought about this question until I came along, at least in this level of detail, and I'm waiting for the day that he passes Grizabella for the top vote on this podcast, and I will be celebrating, and maybe that's when I stop, because I'm like, I've, we've done it. She's not the number one pick, but she's got a slight lead still,

[54:57] Speaker 2: yeah, and it's not. Don't like necessarily disagree with Reza Bella being the choice I'm like, but if I had to pick somebody else, I would pick up he's so tired. Let him go. We'll walk and bump his cat for sure.

[55:12] Mike Abrams: I mean, look, the musical is written to be Grizabella with the redemption arc, so I'm not gonna sit here and pretend that she's not worthy, but I have my my doubts of other reasons why she shouldn't go. Yeah, awesome. Well, this has been so fun. How can people see and hopefully catch all your next amazing cats, tiktoks, and keep up with you on all platforms?

[55:37] Speaker 2: Yeah, so I make most of my content on Tiktok. The name is, it's Mean Green n, e, e n, and the green as in the color with an it's at the front. I mean green was taken when I went to go make tea cup. That is where I post my cat's content, mostly my theater content, my acting content, do, technically, have another Tiktok account called wanna make or work, and biggest fan, which was my original Tiktok. So that's more my like. The stuff I make on there is more meme related. It's Philadelphia related, if that's that can be whatever it wants to be. But mean, green I made to be more curated to acting in theater. So you could follow me there. You can follow me on Instagram if you want to. My main account is Nina underscore, Cecilia with another underscore. I did have a Mean Green answer. I don't really use that one, though I tried to use it. So Instagram, Tik Tok. Do technically, the YouTube as well. If you want the original, the original Met Gala. Tiktok is a YouTube short. Good. Try to put it on YouTube shorts. YouTube didn't silence me. Tiktok,

[56:56] Mike Abrams: YouTube still has the rights. We will link all, of those in the description so people can find and hopefully you've already popped up on their for you page, or their shorts page, or their Instagram. I don't know how Instagram does the that anymore, but thank you so much for coming on. This was so fun to have you on. Hear all those stories. Hear how you create your cat stuff, and I can't wait to see more created

[57:21] Speaker 2: Absolutely. Thank you so much. This was so exciting. My friends are so excited. They're going to have a field day when they spell,

[57:30] Mike Abrams: they they know you're a cat's fan, and they will be ready to hear all the fun that comes with that. And then, now everybody has to go read the Warriors books. That's the

[57:42] Speaker 2: other warriors. If you're a warriors fan, go listen to cats the musical. Watch some bootlegs. If your cat's the musical fan, go read the Warriors series. Because again, that Venn diagram is a circle. Um,

[57:55] Mike Abrams: yeah, I I'm now I have, I left the page open to say where. Let me go look. Let me go look at what this is a little deeper. Go listen

[58:02] Speaker 2: to the naming system. It's not like a cat musical naming system, but it is a it is a system. They don't have normal names.

[58:08] Mike Abrams: That's yeah, and neither do cats, no, they have three names, all right. Thank you, and thanks everyone for listening to this episode of the wrong cat died the podcast. Break down the cat statue. Feed to follow along. You can subscribe on Apple podcast, Spotify, or any else listed podcast, follow on Twitter, Instagram, Tiktok threads at the cat died. Or check out our website, cat died.com. You.