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[0:00] Speaker 1: Hi, I'm Ariana Grande, Hi, I'm Cynthia ARIBO, and you're listening to the Broadway Podcast Network, visit vpn.fm to discover more.

[0:28] Mike Abrams: Welcome to the wrong cat died. The podcast breakdown the cat. Sasha feet, I'm your host, Mike Abrams, and today we have two amazing guests. I have met a lot of cats couples, and we have another one here. So they met on the US national tour, four of cats and are now married. You might have known her as Felicia ferone, and she performed as Demeter, and he is James Gardner, who is working on the tour as an assistant electrician, or what I've been told is an AE tube. So I've got questions. We will ask that, about to learn more, but I'm excited to talk to another cat's couple. So welcome to both of you, and thank you for joining me. Thank you

[1:03] Mike Abrams: excited to have you. I'm I'm fascinated by the amount of cats couples I've met now, and I'm wondering what it is about the show that has created so many happy marriages. And we will get to your meeting on tour, but I always have to start at the beginning of your cat's history. So tell me about the first time you saw the show. You were exposed to the show, and I'm assuming that was hopefully before you started working on it and were in the show. Should

[1:31] Speaker 2: I go first? Yeah, I saw it in 1982 so I think actually was, maybe had been in Preview previews, and I was a senior in college, and we drove in, I think it was with my high school and college boyfriend at the time, and I was blown away by it. I loved it. And, yeah, that was it. I mean, I was hoping to one day be in it, but, you know, I it was just kind of early on in my even, my even thought process of whether I was even going to do this for a living or not.

[2:03] Mike Abrams: Okay, so you saw it as a high schooler. No, no. Actually, college, senior, college. Okay, so you, you're seeing at a point in life where you recognize everything happening, right? But it's early in the shows run. Oh, yeah, so it's not, it doesn't probably have the same lure as it does today. No, you got to see it like early on in a point where some of those story lines that I think children miss, you probably caught.

[2:31] Speaker 2: You would think that. But as you probably heard from other people that you've interviewed, it's a little bit confusing when you're just, yeah, bombarded by all the visuals, you know, and yeah, it is such an amazing, creatively visual show, so that that's kind of what I was caught up in, and just looking at and at the amazing bodies and how people are moving their bodies. And it was really, I was a dancer, you know? So it really was a dancer's dream to imagine doing something like that.

[2:58] Mike Abrams: Did you as you watched as a dancer, did you pinpoint one or two characters that you were like, I I want to do this.

[3:07] Speaker 2: You know, I didn't at the time. I don't know why. I remember feeling that maybe I thought it was like, still so out of reach. I'm not sure. Yeah,

[3:16] Mike Abrams: early in the career, still, or maybe even before Yeah, officially started. Yeah, James, what about you? When was the first time you saw it?

[3:23] Speaker 3: I actually saw it the first time in New Haven, when we did production. I did not, oh, I was in Albuquerque, New Mexico, where I was raised, when cats opened. And so actually, I remember seeing the life reading the Life magazine special that they had on cats and seeing all the costumes and how theatrical it was, and want thinking to myself, Wow, do you really something if I ever ended up on that just because it was such an extravagance. But like I said, I was, I was out in Albuquerque when I first opened and moved to New York in 1985 okay, it was running, but when I moved to New York, I did not get a chance to see it, and then I got offered the show, so that's really when I got to see it first.

[4:17] Speaker 2: Yeah, I was living in New Jersey, by the way. So that's okay. I'm gonna do the Giants.

[4:22] Mike Abrams: Yeah. So, so, James, I'd love to hear from you about your how you got the show, because, like, you know, I know that as a performer, there's the auditions and there's all the stuff that goes into it, but as someone working behind the scenes, what was your experience like, kind of becoming on the electrician and working on sound as a you know, on the tour.

[4:43] Speaker 3: So in Albuquerque, New Mexico, there's what's called a Road House, where, actually we played, when we started the show, first year, we played what is called Book joy all and it's a giant, 2000 seat auditorium. It's the largest theater in New Mexico. So I was part of the house. I was part of the house crew, and I met a guy who kept coming through with different shows. He was he became my boss on cats, and he and I became very good friends, and we actually my first show that I did was Bob Fauci Danson on tour. So he was the sound man on that show, and I was the assistant electrician running a tower spotlight on Bob Fauci is dancing. So I moved to New York City, and then Kevin. His name is Kevin keen. Kevin got cats and asked me if I wanted to be his assistant. And so we had to go through the head electrician, whose name was Jr sample. And JR, I met Jr in a bar, of course, in New York. And he, he said, Sure. And I was very it turned out to be it really, besides the best thing in my life, which was finding Alicia and marrying Alicia. But my involvement with Jr sample was fantastic for me, because he, after he left cats, he got the national tour of Les Miserables. And after I left, I left cats to go do Starlight Express. And then I left Starlight Express, and he had just gotten Les Miserables, and he said, Hey, I'm looking for an assistant. So I became the assistant electrician on Les Miserables. And then when I moved to New York, that's what opened the door. I was a shoe in for a sub on the spots on the Broadway version. And that's how, instead of having to go back out on the road because I didn't know about anybody in New York, because I knew the all the spots and knew how to call the show, so I became the assistant the sub they loved on Broadway. But now

[7:11] Mike Abrams: okay. I love it. It worked

[7:12] Speaker 3: out so that I didn't have to go back out on tour because Jr got the national or the Boston truck of Phantom of the Opera. And he also, then, after he left that, he got the bus and truck of lion. So he's been very instrumental in my life, helping me, you know, with, you know, that kind of expertise of, you know, being able to take that to Broadway. Yeah, it's

[7:42] Mike Abrams: interesting to, like, look back on that and see how much this one tour, and, you know, introductions and people you met, both personally and professionally, had a profound impact on your life. And it's this crazy show about cats is, you know, like, it's kind of a fun thing to think about that. Well,

[8:02] Speaker 2: you don't ask the question, like, why do you why so many couples? Maybe. I mean, just think about it. There's just so many people in every company, right? Yeah, did we travel with how many I think there were 75

[8:13] Mike Abrams: people? Wow, I didn't realize. Okay, how many I knew there was 30 ish in the cast, right? There's, there's that many cats in most of the productions, and that doesn't include the swings and the multiple people that have to kind of be ready to go and stand by for all especially such a strenuous show, there's a lot of injuries and a lot of that happens in the show. That is, I did not realize it was that big of a touring Well, there

[8:39] Speaker 3: was, there were about 35 to 40 cast members that we toured with. They had two busses, and then we had stage management. We also traveled with our full orchestra of, I think, 12 or 14, and then the the crew was another 14.

[8:58] Mike Abrams: It's, it's so logical when you say it to me, I've thought so much about this show's plot that I just keep thinking like, well, of course, I mean this character and this character would naturally become couples, and not anything about the fact that, like, yeah, there's 75 of you on a bus traveling around the country in close, proximities with nothing really else to do besides hang out with each other in some of these small towns that you don't know anybody. So your your explanation is very logical. And I'm now like, Oh, that makes a lot more sense than me thinking like, of course, bomb ballerina and Tugger should be together. They naturally should be together, and that's why they and there have been a couple of those. And

[9:40] Speaker 3: I forgot to also mention that there's also stage managers and company managers. And we actually didn't travel on one bus. We actually had four busses.

[9:48] Mike Abrams: Yeah, and you're too big for one bus. 75 is huge. We

[9:53] Speaker 3: had two. We had two sleeper busses for the crew and two normal busses for the and then all. So don't forget that we had the four bus drivers. We had five trucks. So we had five truck drivers as well. So when the company manager booked a hotel, it's, you are the hotel, it was a lot of rooms, yeah,

[10:14] Mike Abrams: yeah. It's, I mean, again, fascinating to i as someone who knew nothing about how the world of this works. Learning about the tours and split weeks and swings and just all of this is, to me, such a crazy part of this experience for you all. And it makes sense why you all become so close. Because you're you are you become a family just by being in proximity to each other. And I mean, especially on stage, y'all are crawling all over each other, dancing together. You're like, intimately close to each other. Well, and

[10:46] Speaker 3: then, like I said, Then imagine you go to you're going to a new city every other week, or every week, or twice a week, the people that you meet in the bar downstairs are your friends from the show. Yeah. So you know, we're all kind of socializing. We all know it's like a little traveling, not a little a big traveling troupe. You know, even if you don't drink, you'd come down to the bar and, you know, socialize,

[11:12] Mike Abrams: yeah, there's, there's nobody else to hang out with. Like, it's not like you're in one place living, where you can have your groups of friends, and maybe even different groups of friends, it is. That's it, unless you happen to know somebody in the city, and you're also doing this at a time where it's not now, where, I mean, I travel out for work, I generally know some people in a lot of cities I go to, I can just quickly shoot them a message and be like, Hey, you want to hang out. That just didn't exist in the late 80s when you were doing this, that was much harder. So you are really together,

[11:44] Speaker 3: right, right? Yet, there was no internet and there was no cell phone. Even you couldn't either when you wanted to call home, you had to go find a pay phone,

[11:53] Mike Abrams: yeah, and hope that they're there to answer.

[11:56] Speaker 3: That's right, exactly, yeah, sleep or away, or, you know, so, yeah,

[12:03] Mike Abrams: super interesting Fauci on here. A little bit about, I mean, you were Demeter on tour. I know you also did, were swing and did a couple different tracks, but what was your experience like? I mean, you play a very unique story in there. I mean, demeters got a crazy story. So what do you remember from what you were told about, you know, playing the meter and just in general, what you remember about kind of having to live that life on stage every night in such a skittish and and crazy backstory?

[12:34] Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I don't really remember getting a lot of the backstory, but I remember, like, wanting to be kind of like a method actress, and so making up my own and, you know, of course, the whole thing within cavity, and, you know, she's the one that has the the most empathy, I guess, for grizzbella. So it was that whole connection. And I just remember, you know, that then directing us, or directing me to, you know, try to make sure that the fear that was present would come through, would come through the makeup, come through on my face and not only my body. So I remember something like that, but I don't remember getting, like, as much of a backstory as maybe some other people did, because I think being a swing, because I had been a swing, I think for like, six to eight months before I took over the role. So I don't know, maybe I just didn't focus in so much backstory. Yeah, I think

[13:41] Mike Abrams: the swings, swings. It's like, don't get it, don't get somebody hurt. Just kind of be in the right spot, get through it, and then you take on the role, and you get to probably create it. But you know, it's, I think it's a little different when you go in that order. And also, just in general, it doesn't sound like, as I've talked to more of you know, the tours, it sounds like now, especially with so much lore on the internet there, the more recent cast have more to kind of like pull from. It's like, hey, there's years of people who've done this, and I can go read you said they made up all these things that, yeah, people made up, and people that I've talked to. And, you know, back in the 80s, it's like, you you have what you were told in rehearsals and maybe what you discussed on the bus, right?

[14:25] Speaker 2: Yeah, tell you it's home. Yeah, we went on, or that's what I went on. Yeah,

[14:29] Mike Abrams: okay, I gotta ask. Tell me about how you two met on tour, and what that connection was like. And when you realize this is, this is this, is it for life, these are, you're gonna get married. We

[14:40] Speaker 2: are married almost 31 years, but I want you to tell the story about the ham sandwich, right? Well, first, yeah, okay,

[14:48] Speaker 3: so I asked about Felicia Jr sample, who I mentioned before he was dating and then married somebody in the Cass Carroll shoe. Org. And so I had kind of an in with the cast. And I said, you know, hey, how about that, Felicia faroon, and she came back to me and said, Well, she has a boyfriend. And, you know, pretty serious boyfriend. So kind of, you know, oh, okay, then, you know, kind of, we went our separate ways, and not that I ever really approached her, but Carol did tell her that I was interested in her, and years later, actually, when she was doing the Broadway show, the one of my when I became the head sound man, I had an assistant who was now running the Broadway show, so we were going to go out for a drink, and I was waiting backstage. She comes down the staircase at the stage door, and I said, Felicia farone, looking good. You must be in love. And she said, Actually, no, what's up with you? And I said, I don't know. Let's let's finally go out. And that's, yeah, that's true. That's how that's how we started. We had our first date three days later and never been apart since. So you

[16:12] Mike Abrams: work together on this tour in 88 ish, and then it is not until 1991 that you actually go on the first day when you see each other back in New York, because you're backstage at cats, right, right? Yeah.

[16:27] Speaker 2: And I'm doing right when I'm doing that year that I finally did the year on the Broadway, which I also was a swing. But then I did Demeter for a few months because somebody had a terrible knee injury. I think I did it consistently for two months. But then, yeah, and then James and I were together. Brandon, yeah,

[16:47] Mike Abrams: wow. So what do you remember of that, that moment, Fauci when you walked down, show Was it, was it right after you finished? Are you still fully dressed up as demeanor?

[16:57] Speaker 2: No, I think I had, now I had my street clothes on, okay? No. Remember thinking, Oh, this is really great. Like, this is not, this is not a chemistry that I felt that strongly on the road because, you know, for whatever set of reasons. But then in that hallway, I, you know, the stairway, I did feel like, oh, this, this maybe could be something. And then it wasn't that surprising how quickly you kind of became, yes, yeah, okay,

[17:27] Speaker 3: yeah. It's, it's funny, because we knew of each other, and we knew, you know, we'd been touring, we tore it for, uh, years, years, yeah. And so, you know, we knew the kind of character that she was, and, you know what kind of person she was, and she knew what I was, so

[17:52] Mike Abrams: did. You interact a lot on the tour, because, I mean, you're in different worlds. You're together, though, and you're traveling around together. But how much did you interact on tour? Well,

[18:00] Speaker 3: I got to put my hand down her sweaty back every night to take her microphone back out. I mean, I groped her from time every

[18:12] Speaker 3: sandwich story. We were on a on an airplane, and because they would seat us, and I didn't always take the airplane sometimes, but this was like a long bus ride, so I opted for the plane ride. And we're sitting on plane, and we're sitting alphabetical so farone Gardner, and so she's sitting in the middle seat. I'm sitting on the aisle, and, you know, pass out the lunch, and she, she has, she gets a ham sandwich, and she's, I knew she was kind of a vegetarian, and I said, so no, I just said, Do you want his ham? You want the ham out of she pulls the ham out of the sandwich and says, Do you want the ham?

[18:56] Speaker 2: And then he said, Yeah. And then I probably fell asleep, and that was the only conversation we had

[19:03] Mike Abrams: that's really on the play, not just on tour in general,

[19:06] Speaker 2: even on tour, like was just a guy, huh? You know, yeah, silly did not casual, yeah, connect, I have to say,

[19:13] Speaker 3: right. And then, you right. I got up early. She slept in. I was, you know, going out after the show,

[19:26] Speaker 2: yeah, writing letters, all tweezing my eyebrows, basically, you know, those kind of, yeah,

[19:31] Mike Abrams: but it was like, near but here you are. Did you have any cats fun at your wedding? Did you have any songs or music, or anything that happened that played, because that's the connection. So it brought you together.

[19:43] Speaker 2: You know, we didn't, although we had the band, the trombone player, trombone Yeah. Player was Yeah, but he, he got us the band, or he was in the band. He was in the band the right. So the. Cats, trombone one of the cats trombone players is our wedding band rock Susan oh cool

[20:06] Speaker 3: bands and Stephanie Vetter, who was the person that I was at CAST meet, she came to the wedding, and she had, she had a lot of friends from cats. Her Nancy Melius was there. She was a rumble

[20:23] Speaker 2: teaser, yeah, yeah. So, okay.

[20:26] Mike Abrams: So, yeah, yeah. I just like envisioning you all doing, like, the ball, you know, or Copeland at the rehearsal, you know, after so,

[20:40] Mike Abrams: that's, that is fun Fauci. I want to hear a little bit about Broadway, because that is a transition. You go off tour, it's not a long amount of time, but there's a little window, and then this is your debut. So you get to go on at the Winter Garden and make your debut in cats. So what is that experience like, coming off the tour, and especially you went on as a swing to start, so you're gonna going in and almost don't know when your debut is gonna be right, like you find out kind of late. So what is walk me through that experience? Yeah,

[21:08] Speaker 2: I think that the person that I said had the knee injury. I think I mean, as I said, I was a swing for like nine characters at that time, so I wasn't really sure, you know, which one I would go on for. And actually, wait, did I go on for her first? I guess I did. I remember making my Broadway debut as Demeter, so I guess I did. I did go on for other people later. But anyhow, um, yeah, and they just came to me and said, tonight's gonna be it she's out, and she's, you know, she's hurt, and shine is gonna be it. So I called the family from New Jersey, and all the tiny family came and some friends, and they were even in New York. Nancy, I'm pretty sure, was there, and her dad, I think even maybe he just took us out to dinner. Yeah, and I remember, no, we just, it just happened. So it was a little obviously different than somebody else's Broadway debut, where you're rehearsing for all those weeks and then everybody's debuting together. But still, it was mine, and it was super exciting. And I remember being very tearful, you know, in a happy way backstage and, and, yeah, that was

[22:19] Mike Abrams: that? How was, how is that performance? Like? I'm always interested at, how is that performance? Because it's something you know so well. You did it so many times, and then you get to go do really the same thing, but on at the Winter Garden, on this Broadway stage. So is, is that first performance? Like, is it really nerve wracking? Like, or is it just, you know, it's muscle memory. At this point,

[22:43] Speaker 2: it was probably a little of both, because the show on Broadway was different, some somewhat different than, you know, little, little tiny nuances, than that tour was and, but I, but I did know it very well, and I don't think I was nervous about the performance. I just was, I think it was heightened emotionally, just because of what it was finally, you know, making your Broadway debut. I was 30 years old. Not that that's old, but it's certainly not, you know, young. I've been at the business for like, eight years by then, so it was, you know, super heightened emotionally. We're

[23:19] Mike Abrams: gonna take a quick break, and then we back for more of the wrong. Cat died. Okay, I wanted to go back to tour because one of my favorite things to hear from the tours four and five especially, are, what are your memorable stories? What are the things that you will never forget from that time on the road, whether they're funny things, experiences, stuff that happened on stage, stuff that happened with sound, you know, that that you are always going to be in your head years later. So let's, let's hear a couple of those fun ones.

[23:53] Speaker 2: You know, you have a really good one. I just have one. I don't know if it's going to kill more fun, the way that I described it, yeah. You know, one of those things probably had to be there. But I had these little mules, you know, like the slippers with, you know, the fur on my little robe. And I was always room most of the time, rooming with the gentleman who played Kimball Shanks, Kevin Winkler, who actually wrote big deal and Tommy Tune. But Kevin Winkler is now an author anyway, so I was dreaming with him, and he didn't feel well, and he asked me to go out, you know, to the vending machine against Coke or ginger Alan, or whatever it was, and so. And so I went with my little mules and my little robe, and I see all the stage hands coming. I don't know where them coming from. They're coming out of the theater. They were just getting off the bus or something like that. We were in one of those kind of like motels where, you know, the doors open right out into the work and and they are like, you're getting Kim soda, we know. I mean, I explained what I was doing, and I just remember them, yeah. Going into a burst of laughter and coming back and telling Kevin the story. And it, it always was something that, you know, Kevin and I just laughed about. And still to this day, we laughed about, um, as I said, it's probably one of those things where you

[25:13] Mike Abrams: you going to get him so to just be Yeah, with that, with that outfit on,

[25:18] Mike Abrams: Yeah. Fully came out little Yeah, the whole get up

[25:24] Speaker 2: thing, she didn't say, oh my god, I can't believe you're doing that. It's just, it was very funny.

[25:28] Mike Abrams: I'm sure you were a visual at that. Yeah, and you're thankful you're pretty camera phones of everyone just, you know you're you would end up on social media, someone being like, what did I see

[25:45] Speaker 3: remember? We had a somebody organized a white water rafting trip when we were in Sacramento, and a lot of people, maybe 25 people, went, and so there were like five, you know, they put like five people in five boats. So, you know, in the calm parts, I don't know if you've ever gone whiteboard

[26:09] Mike Abrams: raft, you have, I've done a lot of it. Well, there wasn't a lot

[26:12] Speaker 3: of rapids, but there was a lot of, you know, just kind of fun. And, you know, you they give you buckets, and you fill us the buckets, and you go over to the other boat, and you throw a bucket of water on the Alan. So four of the boats were gray, and we were in a gray boat, and some of the actors, Eddie busham, and they were the actors Mr. Mr. Lees and his his girlfriend, and who was in the show too. But, you know, there were like, five actresses, actor, actresses, in this boat. And so we started this chant, let's sink the blue boat. And then we would take the paddles, let's sink the blue boat, you know. And so we're like, paddling and singing this song and going after them,

[27:00] Speaker 2: and they're like, you know, they were like,

[27:06] Speaker 3: you know, maybe you know. But anyway, yeah, the five of us in, in the blue, in the non blue boat, we just thought it was a howl. And, you know, it was quite, quite the commentary for a week or two about the you know, you're

[27:23] Mike Abrams: out there making your own Jellicle choice, trying to, trying to knock some cats into the water here. Yeah, I, yeah, I have, I've whitewater rafted a fair amount of my life, and that is exactly what happens when you are calm, especially if you're going down threes, fours or fives, you know, like some of the stuff that's pretty heavy, then it gets kind of boring. You just start to try to knock people out of the boat. It's, How can you, how can you have some fun out there in a safe way, right? You know, they're not. Oh

[27:50] Speaker 3: no. It was crazy. No, no, we, I mean, you know. But it, you know, it just made for it enlightened the adventure. And there was, at the end of it, there was, like a four and, you know, that was pretty, you know, but it was kind of at the very end of the of the trip. So most of it was kind of just, you know, having fun and being out in the sun and everybody. It was a really nice company. Everybody on the bus have

[28:17] Speaker 3: four especially. Was just really a lot of fun and good people all around, you know, all the people that I worked with went on to, you know, like I said, my boss, Kevin, he is the house flyman on a Broadway show in a Broadway house. Nick Romano, who was the other electrician. He's the Technical Director at Des Moines, Iowa, uh, Tom Lowry, he, he was also a head electrician on Broadway shows, and so, you know, just a really bright, you know, fun,

[28:56] Speaker 2: really kind, such, nice, really nice, yeah. I

[29:01] Mike Abrams: mean, honestly, the you all have introduced me, your cast has introduced me to so many of each other, and that speaks volumes, because it's been 30 plus years, and the level of of connection, and, you know, friendship you all still have is is clear and evident in just the way everyone has talked about each other, and you know, even off Mike has shared about each other is really, really cool to see, and speaks volumes to the people that went out and did this and the friendships that y'all made. Right? James, I gotta ask the as the sound, do you have any memories of any horror stories of where some place stuff went horribly wrong because the house wasn't ready for you or or just places that were harder than others.

[29:47] Speaker 3: Oh, sure, sure, the sound is, is the most difficult job. You know. No matter what anybody tells you you're you know, you have to listen or be on it for every single word. Third, and there was one place, Salt Lake City, when we played stage house right stood up the standing ovation, and the house left did not so the next day, I asked to come in early and I readjusted my speakers. And then for the next show, everybody stood up together. I mean, probably had nothing to do with me, but it was just like that, like, it has to be me, you know, type, you know. And it's like, you know, but yeah, I mean, you're definitely part of it. And, you know, trying to do your best and make the show sound as natural as possible. And, you know, like you said every word you try to, you know, make it so that you have every word. But there was one, you know, and the problem is that you go to a different theater in the acoustics every single building are different. And there was one theater I remember that you could, we were doing, we did a sound check every every house, so I would have an, you know, the assistant, like the assistant would run the sound check, and I would walk the house to hear it. And there was one that had these domes in the ceiling, and so you'd be walking along, and all you could hear would be, like, say, the trumpet player. And then you'd walk along, and then you just hear the clarinet player. Then you walk along, and you just hear the piano or the bass, you know, it was like, it was a crazy dome that just, you know, it was like, you know, in get smart when he has the cone of silence. Yes, he was almost like a cone of music, you know? And it's like, that's all they would hear if you sat in that seat. It was like, I was just going, like, this is absurd.

[31:48] Mike Abrams: Yeah, it's and it's got to be hard, too, when you're doing it for, what, a week. So you, you know, when you're in on Broadway or or on a much longer time, you get to figure out all of those pockets and fix those things, but you get such a short window. And I've, you know, growing up in Indiana, I've seen a lot of touring Broadway, and I've caught a lot of shows on night one and night one of the show versus, you know, a week or two weeks later, sometimes you hear just a little bit of like, oh, that the mic didn't get on quite as quick as there. And it's, it's got to just be getting used to the new environment, and, you know, it's never material enough to make a difference in the show, but it is some of those little things you you pick up and has to be crazy to deal with city to city, absolutely.

[32:34] Speaker 3: And it's also harder. You know, the thing that I didn't really realize is it's hard for the performers too, because cats didn't have any vocal feedback. And so it would some houses, like, you know, you'd go up on date, like, you know, I had a Grizabella say, like, I can't hear anything. And I, like, went up on stage and it's like, wow, yeah, I I don't hear, you know? I mean, it was just like, it was like, a big suck of of sound you could literally not even really hear yourself. And yeah, other places you go, and it would be like, you know, Hey, uh, turn down the the fold back. And I go, Yeah, no, there is no fold back the way it is. So, yeah. I mean, the acoustics and learning about that was being in its we rarely got complaints. But you know it was, it was a difficult at best, you know, because, you know the microphones were run through the wigs and stuck out here, and you know, they wanted to hear and the dynamic of the show from, you know, a whisper all the way to, you know, the jellyful ball where it's super loud, and, yeah, watch your guitars, and, you know, almost a rock and roll show. So trying to maintain that dynamic, so that you know, that becomes part of the show.

[34:04] Mike Abrams: Yeah, has such has so many parts to it. You've got, as you said, the quiet moments, you've got the loud moments. You've got belting, you've got super fast songs, you've got a little bit slower, you've got more instrumental with the overture, and then you've got more singing. What I think helps this show, though, is it's so visually stunning that it adds to it. So it's, it's both components working together. It's that audio and visual together. Whereas there's some other shows, if you don't hear the dialog, you're probably sunk and you know, there doesn't matter what's happening in front of you. If you can't hear them, you're not doing it. Cats are so confusing from start to finish, anyways, that that you gotta, you gotta, at least watch to pick up some

[34:44] Speaker 3: right? I had more than one person come up to me at this, you know, because the the AUDIO DESK is it usually at the back of the house, some theaters, it was in the middle of the house, but you know, you're out in the audience, so that you they. Here, and I had more than one person, yeah, and I had more than one person come up to you and go, what's this about? I don't get it, you know. And you say, Well, sure, yeah. Well, there's nothing really to get said that. Yeah,

[35:16] Mike Abrams: you said I've been on tour with him for eight months, and I don't know either. And that's it. I've actually sat back, um, I've had tickets before to other shows where I've been next to the sound, and I actually don't, I can't do it anymore, because I was watching that more. I was fascinated by what was happening in there. And so I've had to make sure I'm not near that anymore, because same thing with I've been really close to the pit, and I just, I watched the conductor the whole time. I'm like, I'm barely watching the show, and that's, you know, not why you're there, but I find those pieces of this whole like, there's so many components to a show, and more than just so it's on stage, and all of it has to work together and and most people aren't going to grasp that. Like, I one of the first things I usually do in a show, if I'm if I'm low enough is look behind to see the TV screens with the conductor to cue everybody and just see kind of how that looks and how that's being played out. But it's definitely a major piece. I want to go to some rapid fire, because I want to hear we got to get to the most important question of the night. But before we do that, let's have some some fun cats related question. So each of you, I want you both to answer. So if you could go on for one night only as any cat just to perform whether you could do it or couldn't do it, male, female, it doesn't matter if you just want to go on for one night, who are you going on this

[36:40] Mike Abrams: okay,

[36:42] Speaker 2: yeah, and I would like to be his jelly Lorem so that we could perform it together.

[36:49] Mike Abrams: Okay, that's so wholesome. That's such awesome. I

[36:53] Speaker 2: always would have loved to play that part as well. Yeah,

[36:56] Mike Abrams: who are your favorite and least favorite cats? So ignore the people who played them, but just character wise, personality wise, which one would you be best friends with and which one would drive you crazy? I always

[37:09] Speaker 3: liked monk, the storyteller. Our original monk was had a beautiful voice, just told it in this golden voice. And I just love the monk monkey strap part. And

[37:31] Speaker 3: know who I don't really like. Do you like Macavity? Macavity, yeah, he's kind of a pain in me. Well, brown Tiger, no, not growl. Tiger. Rum Tom Tugger. He's a bit of, you know, a blow hard,

[37:47] Speaker 2: would say that, you know, obviously I had a love, hate relationship with Macavity, and so I would, she would be somebody I wouldn't want to meet in an alley, but that maybe my favorite was jelly Lorem, definitely soft spot for Demeter. Victoria syllabi, I guess the ones that I you know,

[38:13] Mike Abrams: yeah, all the ones you got to do, yeah, was it I know? Yeah, what are? What's your favorite song from the show.

[38:22] Speaker 2: Well, we as a family like skimble Shanks, because when our kids were little, we always called it the Christmas song. We, you know, yeah, because all the tinkeries, yeah. Um, and I think the Jellicle Ball is beautiful. The music is beautiful, for sure. What was that? Was your question? Favorite? Yeah,

[38:46] Mike Abrams: favorite song, symbol shakes is great. I think it's such a fun, upbeat, quick paced song.

[38:53] Speaker 2: The favorite song, the favorite piece I love to sing, was the lead up into grizabella's first entrance.

[39:03] Mike Abrams: Hey, is it the glamor cat piece? Yes. And you

[39:10] Mike Abrams: excited? Now it's kind of crazy, because if you would ask me, I guess it's been almost four years now I knew I knew nothing. All I remember from the first time is I could not get Mungo Jerry and Rumpel teaser out of my head. That was the one song that just over and over and over again, and I I sang that the whole way home. Now I know I know your version less because I've seen the revival version more, but I've also seen the 1998 movie, and so that's again, kind of has it. But, yeah, I've started to pick up a lot of

[39:41] Speaker 2: it at this Did you see the recent movie I have it

[39:45] Mike Abrams: is now on Netflix. It's actually what started the show. I mean, it was that trailer that when it released. It was that trailer that day I made the joke about Grizabella, and that was the genesis of this podcast. So without that, 20. 19, for better or worse, this, we would not be here right now having this conversation. So as crazy as that movie was, it is, it's why we're here.

[40:12] Speaker 3: Well, then there's one good thing that came out of the movie.

[40:17] Mike Abrams: I it is an experience. That's what I'll say about it. It is a experience to watch it, and we'll just leave it at that. But how

[40:29] Speaker 3: like the Yeah. I like also. I mean, I'm a little prejudiced, but I like bomb song, the cat, the Macavity with the duet, yeah, yeah, but that's because I, you know, I liked somebody's voice a lot, so yeah,

[40:49] Mike Abrams: for sure. Okay, I asked one fun one before we get to the to the million dollar question. My fun one for you both and you can combine, you can think together your answer. But which cat do you think would make the best sound electrician? So which one would would be doing your job? James, who would be best at it? Oh,

[41:08] Speaker 3: yeah, I guess same thing. Monk, you know, he's pretty cool cat, but you know, on the street I would say, like, you know, you'd come out the stage door, and people would say, oh, what part? What? What cat did you play? And I go, Oh, yeah, I played the sound cat. Yeah, I always

[41:26] Mike Abrams: So I those are my two thoughts. I did have this thought of like, there's maybe some magical version that Mustafa leads could do, but he would probably not be good at actually cueing all this stuff and making sure it all works. But some of it to me, it's, it feels magical, because I don't understand how most of it works. I'm like, Oh yeah, he could do it too. But I think those were my first two answers were monk and skin. Oh, really, because they're the two that I think would be buttoned up enough to be able to handle it and smart enough to be able to handle the sophistication that goes behind that. Because you got to be organized. You got to be on top of, I just been thinking of 30 plus microphones that you're putting through and making sure the right one's going on at the right time, and the right stuff like that takes some organization, and that takes some ability, which is what skimba would be good at. But monk is also kind of your natural

[42:15] Speaker 3: leader of running through it. Yeah, Mom, he's cool. He's collected.

[42:21] Mike Abrams: Okay, we're at the most important question, in my opinion, which is I've argued at length. I don't think Grizabella is the right Jellicle choice.

[42:32] Mike Abrams: I don't want to your argument. I don't want to skew your answers here, so I will tell you my argument after. But I want to hear your I don't think you debated this in when you were on tour, but I would love to hear if you are picking today, are you picking Grizabella, or are you picking somebody else? I'd love to hear why. Either way,

[42:50] Speaker 3: I have to say I never really thought of anybody else but Grizabella. She just seems like natural Joyce. And actually, you know, with her, you know, costume being dirty, and gringy and everything, but, yeah, no, I can't say I ever really thought like, oh yeah, that's, you know. So

[43:11] Mike Abrams: now that you're thinking about it today, are you still she's still your answer, or are you gonna, you know,

[43:19] Speaker 2: I think we both said maybe could be Gus instead, because he seems even older. And, you know, he definitely deserves, deserves it if there's that's what we're going on and that it doesn't mean that Grizabella can't go next year. I

[43:40] Mike Abrams: That's my argument right now. Well, that's your argument.

[43:43] Mike Abrams: I'll give you the the short version of how we got here. My original argument is, I saw Leona Lewis as Grizabella, who was an X factor. So I originally thought, What's the best? What's if America's voting or Britain's voting, or whoever's voting as that show which has a history of making bands. So Fifth Harmony, One Direction. All of those came from that show. My original joke was I want who had the most entertaining performances that I remembered at the time, and I want a Tugger, Mustafa Lees duo going if you're doing it by vote. So that was my original joke. If you really think about, like, detailed thoughts of how it goes, and like, my real answer to if I'm crafting the story, I do think Grizabella, I've seen a lot more younger grizabellas, especially on the most recent tours like and I think Chris just yeah, like the performers are just younger. So it's kind of hard to be like this. Girls lived their rough and tumble life when they're in their young 20s or, you know, so it's is as great as the performers are, as great as the singing is, I'm like, she should go next year, spend a year with her family. You welcome her back. Yeah. Why? Why? Why not just let her like? Why immediately sacrifice her and send Gus this year and she can go next year? And I think you get the same redemption story and arc and all that piece part of me jokingly, not jokingly. What I really want is I want a tour or a regional production to do it with a different choice every night based on an audience vote. So I want to, I want the night that your whole family's in the crowd to be voting for Demeter, and I want Demeter to get that harness on and go up that night, and it's

[45:21] Speaker 2: a different choice, one like that. You don't think to happen, yeah, not

[45:25] Mike Abrams: that I've ever heard. I know there is the pack is doing in New York, the New ballroom cats this summer. So that will be a variation of cats, but it's not a different Jellicle choice. It's a totally different conceptual view of it. So that's the only one I've heard that has, like, that's not pure parody. I've heard some parodies, but that's the only version I think it can be done. And I'm waiting for a call to help.

[45:50] Speaker 3: There was a Broadway show that had you had a choice, what was the name of that when

[45:56] Mike Abrams: drew it? Is what I've been told. I've never seen it, but everyone tells me that

[45:59] Speaker 3: Right, right? There you go. So that's what I want, right? But instead of just four choices, you could have anyone you wanted

[46:07] Mike Abrams: anyone. Well, we've got the technology. Everyone's got a phone in their pocket. We just pause for a minute, let people throw something up, and then everyone's trained to go, get on on the tire, or whatever the mechanism is, and we're ready to go,

[46:21] Speaker 2: No, it's so true. And then the harmonies are all set, and everybody can sing the same way, and up the person goes, and that's it.

[46:28] Mike Abrams: The only flaw I see in this, which I think we could work out, is whoever sings the addressing of cats at the end. I know it's everybody, but whoever like really sings most of it. If they go, we've got to have somebody ready to do that, because that comes after, right? That's after me.

[46:45] Speaker 2: Wasn't there? Of course, he would be one of the old, yeah,

[46:49] Mike Abrams: he'd be, oh, I envision this less about some about like, who deserves and who kind of like, who has the performance that night, who really brought it? But I think it's a lot of it would just be who's, who's got their dance class or their family, yeah? Who's got the crowd on their side that night, which I think is a fun piece, yeah?

[47:08] Speaker 2: And we know the thing about Deuteronomy having somebody sing for him, there's probably one of the covers or another that are already in costume on stage in another role that can easily move in.

[47:21] Mike Abrams: Those are minor details we can work out as we go. I keep saying this now in almost every episode, hoping that eventually someone hears me and it's like, that's a good idea. I'm going to do it. So I'm here for somebody

[47:32] Speaker 2: that's directing. Do you have you done some of these interviews with people that are directors of the show and dance supervisors? Just starting

[47:41] Mike Abrams: to talk to people. I've talked to a few dance captains. I've talked to now, PSM, I've talked to casting directors, but most people have also done it. So it's not just just that or they were, like, uniquely tied to it in some way. I've yet to talk to a director. I've got a couple that I have been in contact with and would like to talk to you, but we got to schedule and get everything there. But if you have recommendations, or you know people, I'm ready. I'm ready for anybody who wants to come on, everyone who listens. Many people message me, and I am. I'm always looking for the next episode, and until I get my my new Jellicle choice, I'm gonna, I'm gonna keep talking into this microphone. This has been so fun. It's been so fun to hear your stories and your experiences and how your fate happened on tour and then at the Winter Garden to bring you two together and your cat's family. Yeah, yeah,

[48:35] Speaker 3: no, I always say I owe my my entire life, cats,

[48:41] Mike Abrams: yeah, right, now and forever. You are truly now and forever. Now. I

[48:44] Speaker 2: know we don't have too much time, but I just wanted to. James actually got engaged to someone else on that tour, but then they broke up. Okay, so this, there was a rocky road. Here

[48:57] Mike Abrams: you are, through and through, and you're here. If we here today, and that's what matters, you're happy. And here today two children,

[49:04] Speaker 3: and one of them is now in Japan, working for universal in Japan, our son, nice, just started so

[49:14] Mike Abrams: amazing. Yeah, amazing. Well, there that has been a production I've always wanted to talk to not universal, but the cats in Japan has got a crazy, long production that has gone on for years. And it's pretty incredible. I've heard so hopefully your kids will see it there.

[49:31] Speaker 2: You know how long it's been there? Oh, many years. I

[49:35] Mike Abrams: don't know if it's still on. It kind of goes on and off a bunch, but it's, it's gone on for it's a very well, well oiled machine does some of the coolest marketing I've ever seen. A very, very, very good production that's happened for a long time. So a lot of these productions kind of pop on and off. So it's like it's on tour, and then it stops and it comes back. I know Royal Caribbean is about to go back out in March, and probably around. When this is coming out, there's gonna be a whole new cast going out and doing that, and then I'm sure it'll pop up all over the place. It feels like it never ends. So it's been cool, different, exactly, but this has been amazing. So thank you again, so much for spending time with us today. Great. Thanks for having us, and thanks everyone for listening to this episode of the wrong cat diet, the podcast based on the cat atrophy to follow along. You can subscribe on Apple podcast, Spotify or already else, listen podcast, follow us on Twitter, Instagram, tick tock or threads at the wrong cat diet, or check our website, the rock cat diet.com,