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[0:00] Speaker 1: Hi, I'm Ariana Grande, Hi, I'm Cynthia ARIBO, and you're listening to the Broadway Podcast Network. Visit vpn.fm, to discover more. There's a cat over here. There's a cat over there. I'm a

[0:17] Speaker 2: wrong one die. I'm a wrong one died. I welcome to

[0:28] Speaker 3: the wrong cat tide, the podcast breakdown the cat's atrophy. I'm your host, Mike Abrams, and today we have another amazing guest. She's done cats a few times regionally, but was first a swing. And Joey Lorem on the US national tour, five of cats. So welcome. We'll see Horton and thank you for joining me. You joining me. I'm excited to have you because I love regional theater experiences of cats, because they're usually pretty wild, to be honest. So we will get there, and we will get to your experience on tour. On the fifth tour, I think it's the number that they call it that went on for a long time, but I always gonna start in the beginning, because you did the musical in 2009 I believe, the first time. So you probably had that era of having the 1998 movie. But what was your first introduction to cats?

[1:14] Speaker 4: My first introduction to cats was when I booked the tour. I had never seen the movie, never seen the show. I grew up in in Connecticut, about an hour outside of New York. So we had had, you know, all the now and forever commercials, you know, the commercials for the Winter Garden, for cats at the Winter Garden and and all of those things. So I, you know, knew it was an hour away in New York, but we never went, I didn't grow up dancing, so it was never, kind of on my radar. And knew it, but you

[1:50] Speaker 4: there, at least when I was in, you know, high school and into college. There's a subset of folks that, you know, laugh at the mega musical and cats being the first Mega musical that's kind of, you know, ripe for a little bit of ribbing. So yeah, never really crossed my radar until I booked it. And then I remember, like the day after I booked the tour, and I sat down and watched the movie, and I literally thought to myself, What have I gotten myself into?

[2:21] Speaker 3: Yeah, so I guess when you're I always am interested to hear your experience in the audition of that, because if you're not familiar with it, I'm sure you're auditioning for everything at the time, right? You're going through a lot of auditions. Do you how much like research do you do about a show when you're going into it? It's like, Did you look into a lot of cats, or was it just, this is one of the list of auditions I'm gonna go to, and then you look in, once you get once you book it.

[2:47] Speaker 4: These days, I do a lot more research. Back then, I was, you know, I was, I was young, I was fresh on the scene. I was like, Oh, just show up to this. See what happens. So I went into it was a singer call, I believe, first, and then they had me come back to dance, and I did my best again, was not, did not grow up doing ballet. Did not grow up doing a whole load of dance, a little bit here and there, not a lot. And wrote it off. And then it was, it was funny, because I I kind of wrote it off and and booked another show. And then I got a call while I was going up to do this other show, right after I graduated college, and I got an offer for the tour. And I said, I'm sorry, I can't I booked another job, and so turned it down. And then, and that was they offered me jelly alarm for the 2008 tour. And then I got another call in maybe February of that year, saying, Hey, we have an opening again for jelly lorim. Do you want to come out and join us? And I said, I just booked another show. I can't so it was twice. I had to turn it down. And then they came back to me one more time and said, Hey, we don't have jelly Lorem, but we have the vocal swing who covers jelly Loram and Grizabella and Jenny Andy dots. Would you be interested? And I said, Yeah, sure, let's go on the road.

[4:02] Speaker 3: So that was, what's the time period between you? Said it was maybe six months ish, from the first to the second. Was it the next like group that was going out?

[4:11] Speaker 4: Yes, so the the first two times was the the year. The way that it worked at the time was it was almost like, um, the tours kind of continual with a bit of a summer break. So it was basically like, almost like an academic school year calendar, which was very strange, but it worked out pretty well. Um, so it was the sort of August, September time of 2008 is when they initially asked me to do it. They called me back again in like February to have me go out in like April, which I also couldn't do. And then they called me again. And I think it was like maybe July to go out again that fall. And because so many folks had said yes to going back to a second year from the 2008 year, there were maybe only 12 of us that were new. So our actual introduction to the whole process. Is was a little bit different than I think a lot of other folks experiences were. You know, it was 12 of us in a room with the associate choreographer, Suzanne Viverito, and we were kind of given, I was a bunch of swings that were new, and so we were each given like one cat to focus on. And then about two weeks later, they had the rest of the company come and join us, to put the rest of us in, which was different from other tour experiences that I have had since, but I guess, not super dissimilar to being put into a show, but it was from a whole rehearsal standpoint. Yeah. So who were you? I was focused on jelly at first, and then when everybody came back sitting on the sidelines taking notes on everybody else.

[5:43] Speaker 3: Yeah, okay, I want to go back. You said you had this like, what did I get myself into moment? Walk me through that like you're watching it now. You're watching this 1998 movie, and you, all you know is now in forever commercial. What was your experience at

[5:58] Speaker 4: first? You of watching the 98 VHS, which I think I had, like, I rented it on net, on Netflix, you know, got the DVD mailed to me or something, and back in the old days, and I sat down and watched it, and I was, yeah, I think it was in that probably the first, like, 10 or 15 minutes seeing, you know, the the breakout of all these cats doing the same choreography and waves and in the opening number, and then doing the naming of cats, and they're all whispering in this really creepy way and going all over the place. I was like, What am I? I don't know if I can do this. Like, and I have to, I have to learn three of them. Like, what do I what do I start? How do I do? Oh, my God. I was so, yeah, I was, like, it was this, this, this whole feeling of, like, I, what did I sign myself up for? How did they choose me? And what do I do if I can't do it? So some of that is, some of that is like the general, you know, the general fear of going into a new project, but for me, being relatively fresh out of school and feeling very fish out of water, it was, yeah, it was daunting, but I said, I'll do it. We'll figure it out. And I'm really glad that it would have been really easy to be like, You know what? No, I'm not gonna, I'm gonna, I'm out, but I'm really glad that I didn't, because it really did change my life and the course of my career. Yeah,

[7:23] Speaker 3: yeah. Did you have a moment? This is, I mean, I'm projecting my own moment onto you. I want to know if you had the same experience. But there is the moment of, like, you're you're watching this from the eyes of, I'm about to go do this. I got to see like, I'm a singer who's dancing. Can I do like, can I physically do this and handle this and learn three of them. But there's also this moment of like, what is this story? And that was kind of where I had like, so I'm wondering, like, as you're watching it, that first view you're trying to see probably way more detail than the average viewer, because you're picking up what you're about to go do, but how much of the story did you even attempt to figure out?

[8:00] Speaker 4: From what I remember, it was definitely a case of like, okay, here are all these vignettes that are leading up to an overarch, overarching kind of reveal, which I think is, you know, not necessarily a bad way to look at it from a first view, obviously, then doing it for so long, and kind of layering on all the other elements. But even, you know, even the third or fourth and even the fifth time that I did the show, there was a whole bunch of new information that's like, oh, I, I've never known that in the I don't know 767, 100 performances I've done of this show is like, Oh, I never knew that information. So there's still always stuff that you know can be kind of mined and learned, and there's so much freedom and openness to kind of play with all of that. But yeah, like the overarching with little little it's like the overarching umbrella of this magical night that somebody gets to go somewhere, and the little vignettes of who's it going to be. I think that definitely came across. Um, but I was so razor focused on like, Can I, can I physically do

[9:08] Speaker 3: this? Yeah, you're, you're watching the Yeah,

[9:11] Speaker 4: I did not. I was not looking at the forest for the trees. I was looking at the

[9:15] Speaker 3: trees. Yeah, it makes sense. So then let's, let's talk a little bit about that first rehearsal process where you get in the cat's Bible, they're handing it to you, or at least they're probably telling, if you said 12 of you some variation of the story. Did you have an aha moment of like, wow, this is, I did not expect this. I didn't remember that. Like, what were the things that really surprised you about the story when you learned it? I

[9:39] Speaker 4: think what surprised I think focusing on jelly Lorem at first, focusing on it from the sort of mothering, sheltering, protective, warm, kind of focus. I think that really helped in terms of I. Understanding where everyone else's worldview of within the show kind of comes from. Because you're as jelly, you're you are watching everybody, you're hoping every you wanting everything to go, to go the way it's supposed to, reacting to all the interruptions. But also focusing so much on the younger generation coming up, on all the kittens, and seeing how they're kind of tapped into the importance. That was something that was really striking from the beginning, from focusing in that space that I thought was that that that definitely carried with me through, through all of it interesting.

[10:44] Speaker 3: That's such a wholesome and nice answer. I'm always like, I didn't know that the meter, right? Yeah, all these other things. And there's like, oh, the motherly aspect of taking care of the kittens. I'm like, All right, that is okay. I want to hear a little bit. I'd love to hear some fun tour stories. Yeah, that's a on the wild on the road, because then I want to get sure experience after so let's hear some, let's hear some of the US tour stories. What do you remember? What stands out as like funny moments or just things you're never going to forget? There's

[11:14] Speaker 4: a couple. So we were the year that in 2009 2010 tour, we were branded as the tour of the Americas because we spent a little time in Canada, but we also were in Central and South America. So a Mexican production company basically bought the tour for six weeks. And so we were, yeah, we were in central South America for six weeks. So we were in Caracas, Venezuela. We were in uh, Bogota, Colombia, Medellin Colombia, Panama City, Panama and San Jose, Costa Rica, um, and that was wild. All of that, that whole time in South America was wild, especially like Venezuela, really surprised me. I mean, I mean, I don't think you can really go anymore, which is pretty Yeah, but even then, in 2009 so that's what 15 years ago, there were echoes of what is happening there. Now we're already well in place, like we weren't allowed to leave the hotel by ourselves, except to go to the mall that was like attached to it, and all the prices in the mall were insane. Like you went to there was like a Wendy's in the food court, and it would cost you $30 to get a meal. Um, wow, things like that.

[12:29] Speaker 3: And this was the same you did the like, your English version of it, right?

[12:35] Speaker 4: Spanish Super titles. So just like an opera, the super titles projected. They had those for the Spanish speaking audiences,

[12:41] Speaker 3: because I know they did in, I think 2018 or 19. They did a tour in Mexico and somewhere in Central America, and they did it in Spanish, like it was translated,

[12:51] Speaker 4: has been translated into like 25 or 30 languages over the years. Yeah, times, but yeah, so we had, thankfully we didn't have to learn Spanish, because I do not speak Spanish, but yeah, it was super titled for the whole time we were down there. So when I was the vocal swing, I covered jelly lorim, I covered Jenny, any doubts, and I covered Grizabella. And in Caracas, we were playing this beautiful opera house, and I was going on for Grizabella, which was scheduled. We had a pretty crazy schedule. We had a couple, like three show days. It was wild. So they were cycled out as many people as they could. So everybody was on for two shows. So I was on for Grizabella. It was, I think, the second out of three shows. And so we had a really quick meal break turnaround. And the way that the pod at the end of the show. Worked on our tour, it was basically, like, it was like a half circle, like a, like a semicircle of the kind of the junk at the front, and then the back was flat and open. And it was basically a bicycle seat, like you would get onto the pod from the tire. They would connect. You would sit on the bicycle seat. You would put your hand through like, you know, you see like silks or Spanish web acrobats, and they had, there's like a, like a hand thing that you grab onto, like a safety hand. The stage manager would see you grab that, and then they would cue you to fly out. And there was a phone so you could pick up and talk to the stage manager and check in. But you were, you were back open to nothing like you were open. You were sitting on a bicycle, bicycle seat with your hand around a thing, and that was, it was the only safety. There's no harness, so you didn't clip in nothing up in the fly. In this theater, it was probably maybe 35 feet off the ground, and the automation went down. So normally, what happens is they all sing the finale, and then in the beginning of bows, the pod comes all the way down to the floor. You step out, you leave stage. Everybody bows. You get your bow done. The automation failed, so the pod did not come down. So I was 40 feet up in the rafters watching everybody bow underneath me. Everybody like looking up, seeing that I wasn't there, figuring. On the fly, how to, like cover the two eights of me not bowing and then finishing the show. And I was on the phone with the stage manager, and she said, we have to get the cherry picker out to come and get you, but we have to wait until the house is clear, until everybody leaves, all 2000 people, or however many were in the audience. So I sat up there for, I want to say it was like 15, maybe 20 minutes on a bicycle seat in full, Grizabella with the heels and the coat and the long tail with nothing behind me open, just it. I could have Swan, Swan dove back onto this stage. It would have been bad. But, yeah, that was, that was something that was definitely a memorable experience. Yeah.

[15:41] Speaker 3: I mean, those are those things happen. I think it seems way more common, or maybe it's not common, but when you do hundreds of performances, you just, you're gonna have one that you happen to always remember it. But the amount of grizzabellas that have been stuck on that tire that I've heard over the years, it's like, it's like, it has to be part. There

[15:59] Speaker 4: are definitely fail safes. There were fail safes for if the pod didn't come down. There were fail safes where, if there were theaters where the pod wouldn't fit you, we cut the pod, or if we cut the tire moving like there were, there were contingencies for, for pretty much everything, even like in the beginning of the show, if you're all the cats are on the, on this, on the on the tire in the opening and a boot is supposed to drop from the fly, yeah, yep. Sometimes it doesn't happen. Sometimes the mechanism fails. And so there, you know, there's a contingency for that. You look to the conductor, he makes everybody leave the stage. They reset it, and then we do and that's what you do. So literally, you basically restart the show, because you're in, you know, five minutes into the show. So thankfully, there are all of those safety protocols that are through, through, you know, 30, how many years? Alan, 3040, a lot of years. It's been 40 years. 40,

[16:52] Speaker 4: you know, because so much of it is so standardized, even just in terms of naming the musical phrases, that that all of those sort of protocols have been, you know, are all well worn paths. Yeah,

[17:07] Speaker 3: yeah. I was like, the I kind of joked the first time I heard, it's like, oh, the tire doesn't go up. It's like, well, Grisel, just like, walks to the heavy side layer. Then, you know, instead of flies and there's, that's, I think that's what makes theater great, is that you are getting a different experience every show, and ideally it's not something breaks, but that's part of it, is that you're seeing lie like it doesn't always go perfect. It's gonna always be slightly different. We're gonna take a quick break, and then we back for more of the wrong cat died. I want to hear about the regional experiences now. So you you finished the tour, and I think you did it four times after. So walk me through them and like, what, how long those were, when they were what those experiences were like? Because it's it is different, right? Doing a much shorter run than this tour, where you're absolutely so

[17:56] Speaker 4: all four times that I did the show regionally was with, so actually, all five times that I've done the show total was with the same two directors, was with Richard Stafford, who set the tour, and then I did two original productions with him and Jacob Brent, who directed me three times, all original choreography.

[18:15] Speaker 4: the first time that I did the show not on tour, was with Jacob, and it was with a theater that is no longer around. Um, so I went in audition for him. He saw it on my resume. We had a nice little chit chat in the room, and then I got a call, like, a week later. Um, so doing the show with him after, I think it was, yeah, it was about a year. Yeah, it was about a year. It was 2000 Oh, yeah, it was about a year.

[18:47] Speaker 4: there were a bunch of folks who did that production with us that had just finished that year's Tour. So there were a lot of cats, alums, because it was such a short process. It was, you know, a standard regional rehearsal process is like two and a half, maybe three weeks, if you're lucky, this was probably a two week process to do full original choreography. Um,

[19:07] Speaker 3: yeah, for how long, though. So you do two weeks of rehearsing,

[19:11] Speaker 4: maybe four weeks, four weeks, maybe five weeks, short, short. Um, and so did the show with Jacob and then that. So that was in the fall of 2011 in the the summer of 2013 so it was about a year and a half later. I did the show with Richard and then with Jacob. So it was two different productions, original choreography. One was at theater by the sea with Richard, and then again, you know, two and a half weeks of rehearsal, about four weeks of shows. And then went up to merry go round Playhouse, which is now called the rev up near Syracuse, with Jacob again, two ish weeks of rehearsal, four ish, maybe five ish week of shows. Yeah. And then, oh, no, I missed one. The other one was in the was gateway, yeah, that was 2012 it was May of 2012 so that was about another five week process total. And that was with, okay, Jacob, yeah. So with,

[20:23] Speaker 3: So there's, you know, when you're doing this and you're, you're with the same directors, with Jake, have amazing guests we had on, and the one of the biggest wealth of knowledge and cats I've ever met,

[20:37] Speaker 3: much of this is that it's like, it pops up and you see it and you audition, or is it a, hey, we're about to go do this, and Richard or Jacob are calling you saying, I need a jelly Lorem, you know it, let's, let's kind of audition for me. But it's kind of like asking you to, at least you consider

[20:54] Speaker 4: it in the press. I've been really, really fortunate in that once I had worked with Richard and once I had worked with Jacob, they basically asked me to do it really fortunate to, you know, be able to have that kind of relationship with both of them. They're both wonderful directors and wonderful people, and yeah, and that was a Yeah, just a really lovely to be thought of in that way, and have your your name brought up in those rooms, kind of thing. I've always wondered

[21:20] Speaker 3: this, because, again, I'm not a performer. I've never I've done one thing in my entire life, and I was like, five is that there are there shows for you that you have done, and it's like, I never want to do that again. And you don't have to, you don't have to call them out. And then there are other ones where it's like, you know what, if I see a jelly Lauren posting, I'm putting my name in the audition because I like, how does that work? Or is it much more of a like, Hey, Jacob and Richard. They've got their, you know, five or six, not like individual but people that they know that could do this, and they kind of go and encourage and find some new talent and all this stuff. But as a performer, like, do you if you saw a casting for tomorrow for jolly Lorem, imagine this was on the thick of things, of doing that, would you immediately be like, I'm ready? Like, I'm I'm going for that.

[22:08] Speaker 4: Oh yeah, right away, yeah, for sure. Cats is one of those shows that really gets under your skin when you do it with my background or very little background before doing the show. I always personally found it a lot more fun to do than it was to watch. But that's just me, not growing up in the dance world. Um, yeah, yeah, people say that, and there's something to do, I think, with the level of freedom and play that you have, that it really, it, it, it gets under your skin, and it's really hard to walk away from. So I think it was very exciting to continually have the opportunity to play in that way that that doesn't happen a lot in this business. There's not a lot of shows in which you have that much license every day that also has such a rich history, like that's it's a very rare thing, and it's a very exciting thing, and I think that contributes a lot to, you know, the way that people talk about the cat's family. It gets under your skin, and it's really hard to say goodbye to it.

[23:15] Speaker 3: Yeah, so this has been a show that's like, that. Has there been any in the in the reverse, where it's, like, I did this one time, and if I saw an addition, I'm not even put my name in. I'm

[23:27] Speaker 3: Probably, yeah, I'm not curious what the show is. I'm just more curious, like, in the idea of it, like, is it like, Hey, I just, I'm I just wouldn't want to do that again. And you don't have to say what show I just, I'm curious of, like, is that a thought process, or is it a, this is work. And, you know, if they offered me the job, I'd probably consider at

[23:45] Speaker 4: six of one half it doesn't know the other. I mean, I think some of those things is, is, you know, you you do the mental math of, is, this, is this process for this potential project worth what I would get out of it? I think that's, that's, the consistent mental for sure. Okay, all the time, whether it's you're doing it for the weeks for the union, or you're doing it for the pay, or you're doing it to work with somebody specifically, or you're doing it to work at a theater specifically, um, yeah, it's a whole bunch of mental math you have to do every time you walk in the room,

[24:16] Speaker 3: for sure. Okay, I want to go back to the regional experiences. You're doing a two week rehearsal, or maybe maybe three at most, versus your much longer process for the tour. How deep does a Jacob and a Richard go into the story in that those different productions for I mean, obviously you said there's a lot of alum, so most of you know it and have a pretty good idea, but there's definitely not all Alan. There's gonna be some where this is the first time they've ever done it. So how much do you get into that in rehearsal of a regional production, versus the tour?

[24:50] Speaker 4: From my experiences working with Richard and Jacob, they do as much world building as time allows. By that, I mean the. First, the first week of rehearsal, you'll take the first, maybe the first hour to do, you know, cat work, as it were. We used to call it felinity, like you're, you are, yep, in your, you know, you're reacting to stimulus of somebody throwing a water bottle, and you're all reacting or solidifying those relationships, or sitting in a circle and talking, or, I know you were speaking with Jacob about the three words that he likes to give everybody for their specific characters, and about kind of internalizing that for what that means for you, and using those things. So I'd say, and with Richard, it was very much like he would lead a group warm up for everybody every day, like a physical dance, warm up, and then we would start to work out of those felonity ways you do what you can with the time that you have, because there's still so much material that goes through. And of course, every director has their little bits that they like to do differently, or set differently, or constraints of the space is always a big thing. Or if the set is different from, you know, it's not, it's not the oven and the tire and the the plank, it's it's a it's the back of a bus, or it's some other concept that the scenic designer had that you're now adjusting what you're used to versus what the constraints are around you. Um, so that was those have all been fascinating and challenging, but the core of it, the core work that you do to to tell the story, is, is paramount. Is is paramount. It's important. And it's every time that I've done it has been treated with a lot of care and respect.

[26:36] Speaker 3: That makes sense. Do you remember the three words I have, I think

[26:44] Speaker 4: I want to say my three words were something along the lines of like protector, mother and caregiver, or something along those lines

[26:55] Speaker 3: I have. So this is just what's on the cat's Wikipedia page. So I'm not sure if it's perfectly accurate, but it has practical, busy and cheery. Okay?

[27:05] Speaker 4: For Joey, Laura, I don't know if I ever necessarily got those ones specifically, maybe, and it's been, yeah, maybe my brain has blocked them. To

[27:15] Speaker 3: be fair, I'm not even sure that these are right. This is just what one website is, and it's based on one piece of paper that someone asked. So it's like it could have been this. Sure, who knows. I want to ask a little bit. Can you tell me more about griddle bone?

[27:32] Speaker 4: Griddle bone is Gus Fantasy Life, the growl, Tygo. Griddle bone opera, which isn't in the movie. It's not even really in the show anymore. It's gone from, I think it's even gone from, like, the cruise ship, um, oh, definitely

[27:51] Speaker 3: cut out. Cruise Ship said it's a What? No intermission, 90 minute. Yeah, that was definitely not.

[27:58] Speaker 4: It's his it's his fantasy. It's his reliving his experiences in his last hurrah. Um, and because Gus has this such, this close relationship with jelly and jelly, really does, you know, take care of him. Make make sure that he eats, you know, make sure he's been grooming himself like those. She's his caretaker. She loves him in the way that caretakers love their the people they take care of, that he has kind of projected. This is the way that I've always thought of it, that he's always projected his moments of glory. And it is inserting the people from his current sphere into his memories, you know. So griddle bone is grill Tiger. Griddle bone was, you know, his tour de force when he was a young Spry cat. Um, he's probably had so many cats that he played grill Tiger and griddle bone with. At the moment, it's jelly because that's who he's with all the time, and that's who he loves as his caretaker. And so it's easy just to be like, Oh, I'm gonna plug in this face that I see all the time. That's kind of where it lands for me, because she is so opposite to jelly. And it is, you know, this kind of comic operatic turn. And from this place of real, you know, from the song of Gus, it's such a tender, real, simple, straightforward, loving moment that you don't get anywhere else in the show that to have the juxtaposition of this grand Over the top memory play that shows how far Gus has come and how much he's lost that, yeah, is the biggest case for him to be chosen. It's such

[29:49] Speaker 3: an interesting piece because it's not been in the version I've seen, besides the 1998 movie, and there's not a lot like written on it, because it's like it is this little scene within a scene. But. But then it's also, it's listed as, like, you played griddle bone too. And so it's always kind of like, this weird one of, do you get a lot of information on griddle bone, or is it just like, No, you're Joey, Lauren, and now you're acting souls pretty

[30:12] Speaker 4: much. Yeah, it's, it's, it's this common opera off to the side as part of Gus fantasy. Yeah,

[30:18] Speaker 3: yeah. Okay, let's do some rapid fire. Let's get to the the important, important question here at the end. So if you could go on tomorrow, male, female, any cat, it doesn't matter whether you could do it or not, who would you want to do one night at bomb? Oh, God, I

[30:32] Speaker 4: love bomb. Ballerina. She is so sexy and fun. I've always wanted to play bomb. Oh, it's such a great so good cavity is so and just all of her, you know, chasing after Tugger and fawning over him and then still getting her power back from him at the end. Like it's just so fun, just to be that sort of sexy bombshell. Absolutely,

[30:53] Speaker 3: who are your favorite and least favorite characters? So which cats do you love? Which one kind of bug you I think

[31:01] Speaker 4: least favorite is, I'm probably gonna say tumble bird us, because just from a perspective of jelly Lorem, he's the biggest pain in her butt. It's like, oh, this kid again. It's definitely that kind of energy. Um, favorite is probably, I would say, old dude or syllabub. Syllabub has this, this beautiful channeling energy of simplicity and honesty and openness and youth. And it's because of old dude that she is this conduit. So I think those are, those are two together that I think are, are, yeah, that Yeah, yeah,

[31:40] Speaker 3: okay. Favorite song in the show, I will say, I

[31:44] Speaker 4: still wake up sometimes with skimble Shanks stuck in my head, and it's been 10 years since the last so probably

[31:52] Speaker 3: okay. I always like to ask one fun one, and I kept thinking back to your your Central America, South America kind of like touring piece, and I want to modernize it a little bit. So which cat do you think would have made the most out of that moment of turning it into like an influencer element, so they would been roaming around Central and South America getting their tick tocks. And so which one do you think would be best at doing that on tour,

[32:19] Speaker 4: best at being a tick tock influencer. There's two choices here. I think Jenny, any doubts, would do her best. I think she would really try interesting. She would be doing it on like Facebook Live. Um, yeah, or, I think Mongo and rump as well. They'd be good. That'd

[32:39] Speaker 3: be good. I they were. I had Bombay, yeah, I could send it to them, but Mongo and rump and Victoria, I'm sure would figure out. But I feel like those two would be finding the beaches, yeah,

[32:51] Speaker 4: then Mongo and rump would be highlighting all the nightlife for sure, yeah, sneaking out

[32:58] Speaker 3: of your hotel. Yeah, okay, all right. Most important question. So I've argued at length that I don't think Grizabella is the right Jellicle choice. So I want to hear, do you Lucy? Do you not Joey? Alarm, do you Lucy? Who are you picking? Is your Jellicle choice?

[33:17] Speaker 4: Well, there's two ways it can go. If Grizz doesn't show up. It's Gus. It has to be, right? He's ancient. He's lived his life. He's gone through everything. He's fulfilled every expectation placed on him and has and he's not going to make it to another one. So Gus, I think, is the obvious choice, with Grizz showing up, with dude being there, with all of the interruptions and challenges and Macavity and everything there, the way that every cat on that stage has been changed by that evening, I think, I think it is Grizabella is the Only rash for me, Lucy that is the choice.

[34:02] Speaker 3: Is there a world where she doesn't come like I never considered that a an option?

[34:08] Speaker 4: I think if dude didn't show up, she wouldn't show up, or if dude didn't show up, she'd show up once be chased off and wouldn't come back. Does

[34:17] Speaker 3: he not show up every year? Though, I don't think so. Okay, so he's not doing this every year. It's in that the off here is that he's not there as monk, yeah, I think he's the, he's the,

[34:27] Speaker 4: he's the one who is in charge 98% of the time. He's, he's the guy that you know, make sure all of the the you know he's, he's running the Google note and the Google Doodle, and has everybody's calendar synced and makes sure that everybody's responded and has sent out, you know, all the lists of vendors to supply. And he's, he's he's the stage, he's this, he's the front man. He's the the one who is giving the TED Talk and has organized the convention at the same time like that. Monk 98% of the time, because everybody is shocked and surprised and elated when dude shows up, when the moment that I believe it's misophylly, says Old Deuteronomy, when the magic cats have kind of sensed a change in the air, we all can't believe it, you know, we don't know if it's true. We don't know if your eyes are deceiving you. You don't know who you are or where you're coming from. So to have him come to this important, special night is the catalyst that changes a lot of things. Um, because cruise ball has already showed up once, and we all said, get the heck out of here. We've chased her off and said, No remark the cat. We're not doing any of this. We want you gone. We don't care who you are. You left us. You're gone. But she keeps coming back because she knows dudes there. I think she keeps trying, because for her, there is no other chance, and dude is the one that makes that possible. Yeah,

[36:05] Speaker 3: okay, I, I, so I that makes sense. I didn't think about I never thought about her not coming back, because that's just assumed that she's part of this this evening, that we're getting no matter what. And I guess I've always just taken for granted that dude's there and he's not, could possibly not have been there. Isn't there every year. And so that's kind of where I've that may that all makes sense, and that's where it's like she has to be chosen. But I do wonder, like my argument, and I've said this on almost every episode for the probably the last 100 Why can't she just stay next year and be next year's choice, I

[36:41] Speaker 4: think, in the same way that there's not a next year for Gus, I don't think there's a next year for Grizabella. She's, she's okay. She's been even her coming back and singing memory, she falls to the ground, and it's, she's she is done. If, if little syllable of doesn't start singing, you know, sunlight through the through the dawn is breaking, she wouldn't get back up, she would be done. That would be it. She's giving every last ounce of what she has left to plead her case in the one chance she's been given. So I don't think there is a next year for Grizabella. Okay,

[37:17] Speaker 3: so what about this particular scenario? Because now I'm thinking about it from a different angle. What if she different angle. What if she doesn't come back? Does old dude come this year for Gus or is he? Yeah, I think,

[37:28] Speaker 4: I don't think dude shows up because he knows Grizabella has been sniffing around. I think he shows up because he is ethereal spirit of the tribe who kind of comes and goes on his own timetable. He's

[37:46] Speaker 4: are unrelated. I think, I think, I think it's un I think dudes, appearance is unrelated to Grizabella reappearance, if that makes sense.

[37:54] Speaker 3: But, yeah, but she doesn't actually come back a second time or third and third, whatever. That's what. He's not there. Interesting. Okay, okay, lots to think about. Always something, always different experiences. I, you haven't changed my mind, but I do, I do respect the opinion and the thought and it is I, you know, I always do forget that old dude's not always there, because I just, I just take for granted that it's like, he's, I kind of jokingly feel he's a serial killer that's like, every year he comes back and acts in somebody Well, it's one, yeah, one night, one night a year, every year. It's also interesting

[38:32] Speaker 4: though, doing the show for so long, it's, it's very easy to take for granted the fact that dude shows up every day as you're doing the show eight times a week for however long, whether it's a one month stint on a regional gig or a year on tour, or, you know, how long did Jacob do Broadway? Like eight years and then some. And it's it's easy to for those magical things that affect the story that we are telling, because it is, it can be, it can be taken as pretty thin on the ground. It's easy to take those things for granted, and the audience misses out. The ones who are consuming the story miss out on the wonder and the details, if we miss out on those things,

[39:26] Speaker 3: for sure, yeah, because it's so thin, like you said, it's there's not It's not told, it's not spoken, it's kind of implied in a lot of places. So if you don't bring that energy and aspect to it, then there are going to be people that miss it, and some people are gonna miss it anyways, but that's, I think the beauty of the show is that there's a whole, you know, an incredible dance component that somebody can walk in and just watch the dancing and not even know the names of the cats and still be fine. Someone could love the singing and hear all the different songs and walk out. I was still, I mean, I for a good week after seeing a show the very first time I say. Movie journal that stuck in my head for at least a week. And then there's the story, and there is, like, a lot of extra, and there's a whole, I mean, a whole Wikipedia fan page of theories and stuff, and I'm now 160 plus episodes digging into those. And so it's like there's a lot there that you can really enjoy and appreciate of this show in all kinds of different forms, which is probably why it's so successful. I think

[40:23] Speaker 4: it Yeah, and I think it transcends language. It transcends, you know, it doesn't matter where you are on your life journey. It doesn't matter who you are, what you look like, how you love whatever. There's something in there for everybody. And I think that that kind of even hearkens back to what I said before, but the show gets under your skin, and it's really hard to walk away from that.

[40:48] Speaker 3: Yeah, wow. This has been super fun. How can people stay in touch with you on social media? And

[40:56] Speaker 4: yeah, so my all my socials are at L F Horton, so at L for Lucy, F for Francis, and my last name, Horton, h o r t o n, like the elephant, and that's me on all the socials. Yeah,

[41:08] Speaker 3: all right, we will link that. And thank you. Thanks for having me on and sharing your experience. It was awesome. Thank you. And thanks everyone for listening to this episode of The Ron cat died the podcast. Back down to cast Ashby to follow. You can subscribe on Apple podcast, Spotify, or let's listen to the podcast. Follow us on Twitter, Instagram, Tiktok and thread dive, or check our website through head dive.com you.