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[0:00] Speaker 1: Hi, I'm Ariana Grande, Hi, I'm Cynthia ARIBO, and you're listening to the Broadway Podcast Network. Visit vpn.fm to discover more.

[0:12] Mike Abrams: Thanks for listening to this episode with Allison little I am super excited for y'all to hear it, but want to give a quick disclaimer or two. One quick note was, this was recorded back in June, and it was before we did the program Performing Arts Center episode. So just note that the timing of that might have a couple things feel a little off because of that. And the other thing was, is that I learned, just like the episode last week with Laura, that I had COVID at the time of recording, so my voice was a little rough in shot at the time, but Allison's story is incredible, and you will love this episode. So let's start the show. There's a cat over here. There's a cat over there.

[1:04] Mike Abrams: to the ROM cat died, the podcast breakdown, the catastrophe. I'm your host. Mike Abrams, and today we have another amazing guest. She was a swing and one of the dance captains on the US national tour five. So welcome Allison little, thank you for joining

[1:16] Speaker 1: me. Awesome. Thank you so much, Mike. I appreciate you asking me

[1:19] Mike Abrams: to do this. Yeah, excited to have you on so I want to get into some dance captain specific questions. But before we do that, I've got to start with your history. What's the history of cats? What was the first time you saw it? What was your

[1:31] Speaker 1: introduction? I love that you asked me this because my first experience with cats ever, I was nine years old, in third grade my dance studio. Took a trip to New York. I'm from the Nashville area in Tennessee, and so this was my first time ever being in New York. And, you know, we got to take class at Broadway Dance Center. I got to see my first Broadway show, which was cats. Wow. See my, yeah, my first like, professional ballet at Abt and it's so crazy when I booked when I booked cats, it was just this full circle moment for me, because being that nine year old sitting in the Winter Garden Theater, this was in 1991 and not knowing what to expect, right? And I remember we sat like kind of orchestra mid to the back of the theater, and I was kind of near the aisles, and again, I had no idea what to expect. And it gets dark, and these these things are running past me down the aisles, and all of a sudden there's green eyes in my face, and that's green eyes, and I just remember being blown away. I remember being mesmerized the entire time. The mistles really stuck out to me his number because he has the huge dance feature and Mungo rumps number was just like, I remember watching them, and then I kept trying to find rumple afterwards, I was like, Where did she go? Like, she was so fun and so cute and quirky. And I just remember wanting to, like, follow her the rest of the show, because I loved their number. And growing up, you know, as I went through life and then really deciding to make dance of my career, my focus, and musical theater a focus in my life, I think that moment in my little nine year old third grade life, like played a huge role In in what I decided to do. So then booking the, the, you know, the tour years later, was just again, one of those full circle moments, like I said. And actually got to share that with Jillian Lynn my first year Richard wrote, Richard Stafford, who set, you know, who's our he was our director. Reached out to us and just said, Hey, you know, if you have I would love to, like, send some emails to Jillian about your experience with cats and everything. And so I kind of got to just type out my my experience, like everything. I just told you to Jillian through an email, and I remember Richard kind of wrote back, and was just like, this is incredible. Is incredible. She'll love this. And, I mean, I got to meet her that first year she came and she didn't come. Every year she came and watched our rehearsals, and we we got to sit on the floor in Nola studios, and she talked about creating the show. And, I mean, we were all just little sponges sitting there, you know, yeah, in awe of her. And it was incredible. So, yeah, my first experience was seeing the 1991 original Broadway cast of of cats at the Winter Garden. Your

[4:57] Mike Abrams: your teachers have to be so happy. About that, because, like, that's the point of this trip, right? Like, they take you to New York, they let you kind of get a chance to see it and experience it, live with the hope that maybe that is the dream, you know, like that, you like, that's why you do a trip like that. And so to hear that, that is the moment that you kind of realize that this could be your profession, is almost like the ideal scenario of that trip. Yeah, I think,

[5:21] Speaker 1: and a lot of studios do this now, you know, they, they book these trips for their students to expose them to different types of art and different venues within the entertainment industry, which I think is so valuable, and there's, it's crazy, because at the time she she was kind of the only studio in the Nashville area doing, doing that. And a lot of us that trained there ended up going into the entertainment industry, cruise lines, Broadway shows, tours, theme parks. And are still, you know, are still doing it, and are either choreographing, directing, still performing, having our own programs. So she really, yeah, I mean, it, it matters that that childhood age is important, you know, and what you do as a kid definitely influence, I think, you know, influences you as an adult. So,

[6:17] Mike Abrams: yeah, no. I mean, I see it as someone who lives in the city, in New York, and just a lot of the shows, like, the amount of times I've seen a high school group or like a group, like in line going in with me is frequent. And so I think it's a very smart thing to do. I mean, I think that, as someone who went to a few in high school and stuff, was more of just like, this is a New York thing to do. We weren't there for a reason. We were there for other purposes. But I wasn't a dancer or singer or a performer at all, but I love hearing that that's like a part of the like, that was the intention, and it works out, which is really cool. So you have that full, full circle moment. Do you recognize that in the audition process? Or are you going through so many auditions? It's just like one of the many you're doing? Or was it a, oh, cats was my first show. I want this. No,

[7:03] Speaker 1: it, yeah, I think you're just auditioning. You know, as I was in LA, I lived in LA at the time when they came out to audition, and it was just another audition. And that audition was interesting, because I was auditioning for three shows at the same time. So they did Wizard of Oz and cats together, that's what it was. Wow. And I know, yeah, and moving out was around that same time. I don't think they were together, but it was around the same same time. And I remember when they came through, and there was, like probably 300 other girls there, and I got kept to the end for both Wizard of Oz and cats, and I was the only girl who got kept for both. And I said, You know what? If nothing comes of this, I'm the only girl who got kept to the end for both cool. I'm good like I feel good about myself, whatever, you know. And what happened was, I actually didn't book it that year. There was another girl who booked it. And I was like, cool, like, it just didn't happen. But they did put me on tape at the time. And, I mean, this was back in, what, 2008 Yeah, or so 2007 she was eight. And I was like, Cool, whatever. They called me April, like, so maybe that happened in August or September, like, or July, I don't know. And they called me in April to see if I could come to a call back in New York. I couldn't do it at the time because, again, I was still living in LA, and they called me again in May or June, and I looked at my husband, and I was like, I have to go to this. Yeah. Like, they keep calling, and I just feel like, I need, I need to go, I need to do this. And so I did, and sure enough, that was the year I booked it, you know?

[8:53] Mike Abrams: So you never know, wow, yeah. I mean, it is so much of the like, right time, right place, and then, because they have needs, and especially for swings, it's like, there's the emergency, we need somebody in two weeks. There's the like, replacements, but then there's the full, kind of normal audition. But I love to hear you talk a little bit about, like, already being married and then about to go on tour. Is your husband in the industry? Or, like, how does that like, how did that work? Because most of the tour, maybe this is more recent, but they're all kind of right out of school, or they're definitely earlier in their careers. Most of them were not tied down, and they're going around the country for a year or two, but being married and with, you know, more settled. Like, how does that factor in, and how does that play into part of this crazy profession? Yeah,

[9:38] Speaker 1: well, I kind of had this really honest moment with my my husband. Now we were, we were high school sweethearts, so we dated, started dating in high school and then college, and I remember sophomore year of college, I just I knew this is what I wanted to do. And I was like, hey, yeah, just so you know, this is what I want to do with my life. That means I will probably be away from you from time. The time. Are you okay with that? And he literally was like, I want to be with you. Doesn't matter you. You're it for me. So if that means I have to give up some time with you to do our life, and he's like, I'm in and he's been my biggest supporter this entire time. We just celebrated 19 years of marriage. Wow. In May, yeah, but it was tough being away. Of course, at the time there weren't smartphones. We would Skype. We would Skype every now and then. We tried to talk just about every day, just to check in with each other. When I went on tour. We moved back from LA. We moved back to Tennessee, so he was near family. He wanted to go back to school. So he had, you know, things he was focusing on at the time too, and it it was hard. He would come out and visit though it was actually cool my second year, like we got to spend New Years in Hawaii. We spent his 30th birthday in San Francisco, and we had some friends that lived out there, and I planned this huge surprise party for him. And so we got, you know, he got to come and visit, and we got to do some some cool things because of the tour. So that was, that was really fun. But after that second year, like I could have gone back for that third and final year. They offered me a contract, but I knew I needed to be home with him, like it was just, it was really tough. And so I was like, okay, like, I've checked all the boxes I wanted to check with this show my best best friends were going back out that third year, and it was really hard to say no to that, but I knew I needed to be home with my husband. So,

[11:41] Mike Abrams: yeah, we take for granted the timing. You know, this was, I think you went in 2009 right? 2010 11. The iPhone came out in 2007 like, you know, like you're in the kind of BlackBerry era of, like, that time frame. So there wasn't the what we know today, which is just like, oh, just quickly FaceTime with somebody, or hop on a video chat or, like, we're doing this so naturally and easily over video right now, that wasn't the case. And so it is a very different, you know, world back then. And then also, transparently, you're going into a show where you're crawling on top of each other eight times a week, you know. Like, it's a lot of a show too. So there's just a lot more to it as well. But, yeah, it's just a part of your profession.

[12:23] Speaker 1: Absolutely, yeah, you're playing a character, you know? So,

[12:27] Mike Abrams: yeah. So let's talk about that first year you go out as a kitten swing and so what was the first time that you go on? Like, what do you remember about that first first performance?

[12:38] Speaker 1: So my first performance ever was at the palace in Chicago. And if you've ever been to that theater, you know how stunning that space is and how practical that space is. And I got to be Victoria, and I will never forget that moment in my life ever. What was really cool about that year was we had scheduled swing ons. So our schedule was very rigorous. That was the year we went into South America, and there were times when we were going to be set up to do three shows a day. Wow, yes. I said that three shows, yes. So typically two, two is max, and there was just a few circumstances where they we had those three so people had to be swung out. And there were just things coming up in the schedule. So they, they scheduled our swing ons so we knew what to prepare for. We knew when we were going on, where we were going on, which was so great, like nobody was caught off guard or unprepared. And mine came pretty early on, because Chicago was one of our earlier cities that year, and it was, it was just magical. I mean, it couldn't have gone any better. The whole cast was super supportive. I just remember afterwards feeling really proud and confident about the show and and what I had done, and very supported by, you know, by stage management and and everybody, because it really is like a family. It's a tribe. And we'd always say, shove with love. You know, you should, if someone doesn't know where they're going, shove with love. With love. Mm, hmm. And you do just kind of give a little paw this way or ahead, you're supposed to be right over there next to that tiger eye on the floor. Like, yeah,

[14:43] Mike Abrams: that is, right, yeah. The idea is, I've heard before that you had the three show days when you were in South America. And the idea of that is just mind blowing. It's like, it'd be like doing an Iron Man workout with doing seven plus hours of dancing, which I'm assuming they didn't let anybody do, right? Maybe, maybe. A Bella. Maybe you'll do like, some of the ones that don't have to do the heavy dance numbers. There

[15:04] Speaker 1: was, I feel like there were one or two cast members who had to do all three the way the schedule and it all the puzzle fit together. I think I feel like our Cassandra maybe did one three show day, and she was just, like, power. She was a powerhouse. She was just powering through. I feel like she did it. There's like a couple, yeah, but they really tried to swing people out as much as they could, because it is a beast of a show,

[15:31] Mike Abrams: yeah? I mean, that's almost, like, almost eight hours worth of working out, like it's, it is, that's, that is a lot. Okay, I want to talk a little bit about being dance captain, because that is its own beast, right? So when you come back, this is in year two, I think right now that you're a dance captain, what does that extra layer of responsibility look like on tour? It's

[15:53] Speaker 1: a lot. It's a lot because you are part of the cast, but you're also on the management side of things, right? You're also in this leadership position now, and so there's kind of, there's this fine line you have to walk your people's friends, but then you're also kind of their boss, and that can get really tough at times, because you're also in charge of maintaining the show. And you know, one of the biggest dance shows ever created in musical theater history, right? And, yeah, totally, dance captain is in charge of all the choreography. So it can be very daunting. You have to keep track of the dance Bible. I remember I was constantly working on the dance Bible, which, you know, when someone was swung on. I mean, yes, they're in charge of their tracking as well. But you know they want, here's the Bible to say, okay, yep, you're gonna go downstage of so and so, and then you exit downstairs, left, and in case they need reference, and if someone got hurt or had to leave tour, you were in charge of teaching the new cast member the show. So you literally had to know the whole show.

[17:03] Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah. You had to know every character, right? You had

[17:07] Speaker 1: to know every part, yeah, and, and it's crazy that you talk about the time we were in because we didn't video everything. We we didn't we're in this world now where everything is videoed. You, have one rehearsal, and we're like, Okay, we're gonna get a video. We're gonna upload it to the Google Drive so you can practice tonight that didn't exist back then. You had to just remember your choreo and write it down and practice your tail off literally every

[17:35] Mike Abrams: night. Yeah, it is such a different world, because now everyone's roaming around with their iPads, or like they have their video or like something to reference. Whereas before, you probably had a notebook, like you had, you had what you had to keep your actual notes and move forward, it is totally a different world that we were living in back then, absolutely.

[17:55] Speaker 1: So it was, yeah, it was it, you just had to be on your game. You know, you had to be on your game.

[18:01] Mike Abrams: Was was part of this? Like, knowing your the career you wanted to have and being a dancer and wanting to be a teacher? Was that like, the first step into that? Or is that, like, a part of the career progression? Or is it just, uh, here's an opportunity to have some extra layer of responsibility and take on a new piece of this. Like, what's the like, the thought behind dance captain ninja,

[18:21] Speaker 1: yeah, I had already been teaching at that point when I I was teaching in LA before I booked the tour and still performing and everything and being a swing, not every it's not, it's not for everybody. You know, it's hard work. It's a lot of thankless work. A lot of times you're not on all the time. It can get it can get emotionally and mentally trying, especially if you haven't gone on in a while, because you know you're there, you want to perform, you want to do your thing. Yeah. So that can get really tough. But it's also, it's a great challenge, like, it's never, it's never boring for you, because you're constantly tracking your characters, and you know, things evolve as you're now doing your 100th and 50th show you know. Like people make different choices and they you know. So you just have to keep track of all that, or you're running the show backstage. And so I had done the kitten swing thing. I felt really successful. I'd done all three of my tracks. I got to do Victoria Rumple and syllabub as the kitten swing. And I was really ready for another responsibility, honestly. And it was kind of cool. They they would interview us. We'd kind of do, like a kind of an exit interview, if you will, at the end and say, hey, you know, do you want to come back next year? And if so, what are you interested in? Like, what roles are you interested in? And so dance captain was one of the things that I said I would be interested in. And I know they talk also to the previous dance captain. You get referrals, if you will, you know, because you've worked really closely with this person, so I know that's taken into consideration as well. So, I mean, I would just remember we would all, you know, there's fight call rehearsals before we do lift rehearsals before every show, just to make sure everyone's ready for that show that is scheduled into a pre show. And I remember Brad landers was the dance captain my year, and I would just watch him work, and I would sit like off the front of the stage and even watch rehearsals, you know, fight rehearsals that I were I wasn't in, or whatever. And I've always enjoyed teaching and choreographing. I was like dance captain on my dance team and in high school, and so I just felt like a very natural position for me to move into, and something I thought that I could do really well. That's

[20:50] Mike Abrams: awesome. So as a dance captain, or just in general, even as a swing How much did you think about personalities as it comes to the characters like you learned the whole show. Do you think about the relationships? Are you just purely, all right, you've got to be in this spot here and doing this dance move here and that, like, do those worlds ever blend together? Because, I mean, that's obviously all I think

[21:14] Speaker 1: at first, it is definitely those first few times you're like, just getting your bearings Right. Like, am I in the right spot? Okay, I'm next to these people. I'm supposed to be in. I'm to be in. I'm doing this on the right count, you know, but that's not some of that rehearsal comes in and you really, you really have to act as if you are one of the characters when you're learning the show like I was really fortunate that our first year, Suzanne vivarado taught us the show. And she was the kitten swing on Broadway. So I felt like I had the first, you know, front row view to like what my role really was. And she's, she was like, Hey, you're really going to concentrate on Victoria. She goes, and then focus on your other roles. Like everything will kind of play off a dot. And the kittens are together a lot. So it was easier for me to put the puzzle together with the three of them. But once you've done it a few times, it's like you really can settle in and find your own characterizations within each character, which is so fun, like, I don't have to play just one character every time, and like, rumple is so different than Victoria, and syllabi was so different, and Rumple and so it was. It was always really fun acting wise, to play with those, play with those, the differences within each character and the relationships that they have with the other cats, you know, because they are different.

[22:37] Mike Abrams: Yeah, I mean, it's, it's definitely like, there's so much story told there, like, just by staging, or just the personalities, or kind of how that all is coming together, but from a dance captain side, like you're, you are teaching the whole show to everybody. You're showing all these different motions and movement that plays into it, but then you're also, but you're not showing the like looks that they're making, or the like, you know, like, little playful nods that you have that happens. And so there's this, like, weird, a weird blend and blur between the two worlds. Yeah,

[23:09] Speaker 1: yeah. And, I mean, honestly, as as a swing, you first and foremost, you want to, like, be in the right position when you know where you're needing to go, when you need to go, and know your track really well on stage and backstage, because backstage world is a whole nother, you know, a whole nother choreographed thing, yeah. But again, with something like a tour that's going to run what, like six to a lot of times, like nine months of the year, there's going to be plenty of opportunity for you to go on as multiple characters, particularly, like I did rumble more than I did any other of the cats. And so, like, I really felt super confident with her, and I felt confident with all of them. But you know, just like riding a bike, the more you do it, the the more fun it is, the more comfortable you get, and kind of settle into your own own choices, you know,

[24:04] Mike Abrams: yeah, you probably felt super comfortable with rumble too, because that's like the one that you first noticed, right? Like, that's the full circle moment.

[24:11] Speaker 1: No, it was, yeah. It was really, really cool to yeah, get look back on my little nine year old self, yeah, and just be her, and maybe, you know, hopefully inspire another little person out in that audience who is like, oh my gosh, that cat was so fun.

[24:30] Mike Abrams: We're gonna take a quick break, and then we back for more of the wrong cat died. I want to hear a few of your, of your fun or memorable stories from tour, like I do love capturing just like, what are the things you'll never forget from those two years, whether they're mishaps, funny things that happened off stage, like, what are those things that you just will

[24:49] Speaker 1: never forget? Yeah, okay, so being a swing, right? Sometimes you're on, sometimes you're not, and they also would schedule us to. Be backstage singing in the vocal booth at certain times. Not every show, but we have a we have a schedule running. So sometimes you'd be scheduled to be in the vocal booth, helping, helping with vocals. Sometimes you were backstage, running the show. Sometimes you were in the house, watching and tracking or just watching, you know, and I don't remember, we were somewhere in middle America, the house wasn't super packed. It was a good audience, but the house wasn't super packed. And so some of us decided to sit in the front row and watch the show and like, you know, give our kitties some love. And it what we were like, almost to the ball. I can't exactly remember where we were in the show. We were almost to the ball, and I just remember I hadn't seen Victoria in like, a second. I was like, Where did she go? And all of a sudden, out of the corner of my right eye, our stage manager is almost like crawling on her hands. And he's like, ducking down to, like, the front row. And she's like, Allison, you're on Victoria. I was like, Oh my gosh, all of us in the front row get up and like mass exit. Exit is leave and run backstage and Mike, I kid you not. I went from sitting in the front row to being on stage as Victoria in seven minutes. Seven minutes. So, I mean, it is literally a tribal situation. I am painting my face white. Two girls are pin curling my hair. I'm trying to put some type of black striations on my face so I don't look just like a ghost. You know, I'm not doing the whole plot on my face. And, you know, someone's getting my mic pack for me, and, like, getting me dressed as I'm just like, you know, running basically, to get to get on stage for the ball, for the end of, you know, Act One, the 16 minute ball we're about to do. So that is one moment that we'll just go down in history of, like, how fast can you do this? You know, and teamwork is dream work, yeah, magic of theater featured

[27:01] Mike Abrams: in the ball, right? Like, but you're so important to the ball as Victoria, like, it's a big chunk of that.

[27:07] Speaker 1: Yeah, you can't not have the white cat. She's got to be there. Yeah.

[27:11] Mike Abrams: I also love the like, your recognition of, like, I haven't seen her in a little bit, and it's like, the aha moment of, like, oh, wait, hold on. I'm usually sitting in the booth or, like, where I'll get that call, but you're not, because you're in the front center.

[27:24] Speaker 1: Yeah, normally, like, we would have been backstage, running it or whatever, but no, we'd all just, we're like, we're gonna send the front row and that one time, of course,

[27:33] Mike Abrams: yeah, the way it works, right? The time you do that, it's the time, of course, you're needed. Yeah,

[27:37] Speaker 1: there was another time too. Oh, man, it's the reveal after Mrs. Number of old dude, I don't remember who was playing misto, I don't know about, like, our, you know, normal mister, if it was a swing, but he goes to take, you know, the the cloth off, and grabs his wig. And the whole wig comes off, what with it, with it, and so there's a cat with just a wig cap on. There's a bald bowl, bald Old Deuteronomy on stage. And we, we just all lost it. It was, it was really, really funny, because that was not supposed to happen.

[28:21] Mike Abrams: Wow. Yeah, the amount of moments that like that, I'm sure you know, it's like, as an audience member, you go, most people go once, twice. You know it's like, you're not gonna see it all that many times. So, but the people who get to experience those moments, it's like, it's special, in my opinion, like it's such a different, unique like, Do we even know that that happened? Do we recognize that that's happening and then, right, it's live? So how do you, how do you shake it off quickly and go on to the next part?

[28:50] Speaker 1: You just got to keep going. There was another time. This might have been the year after. After might have been the last year. So that I wasn't on it, but my friends told me about it, I think, like bombs Mike went out, and it was before she was doing her featured, like, the cavity number, and she crawled off and literally got a handheld mic from the stage manager and had to sing Macavity with a handheld microphone. But, like, what do you do? I mean, that's tech you Yeah. So, you know, you just make it work. There were split tracks. I mean, there, you know, we had Sundays were called Super swing Sundays, because a lot of times people called out because they were sick or hurt. It's the end of the week. Yeah. So there was times like seven swings were on on Sundays, which was always really fun for us too, because we're like, our own little tribe within the bigger tribe, you know. So it was fun to play with, you know, other swings who were were on with you?

[29:49] Mike Abrams: Yeah, yeah. It's so fun to hear these. So I'm sure you could tell them. I mean, I'm sure, like, when you get your group back together, it's just like endless stories of that. But let's go to our rapid fire here to. Uh, to bring us home. So if you could go on for any cat one time, one night, whether you could sing it, dance it, male, female, doesn't matter. Who would you want to go on as,

[30:10] Speaker 1: Oh man, probably misto. As hard as that would be. And like jokingly, one time someone like, you know something had happened, they're like, oh Allison, you're like, the next cover for misto. I was like, That's hilarious. I think this is when I was the dance captain too. Like, well, you know it. And I was like, Y'all are hilarious. That coat weighs as much as I do. Like, there's no way I'm his coat is so heavy. But honestly, like, that would be a huge challenge. And it's such a fun dance number. So I'm gonna say, Miss still. Yeah,

[30:42] Mike Abrams: I love it. Who are your favorite and least favorite cats based on personalities, like, who would you be friends with and who would bug you? Hmm,

[30:52] Speaker 1: okay, least favorites gonna be and not because of, you know, not because who played them or anything, but Macavity, obviously, and Plato shares that role with him, but I always liked Plato. Plato was fucked, but Macavity, yeah, we can do without you. And then bomb is like, Bombay Irina is just like, She's sexy, she's confident. I always like, secretly wish I could be bomb, but I just too petite to play, so to play her. But I love, I love her confidence and sensuality that she, she embodies. So I always, yeah, I like bomb a lot.

[31:41] Speaker 1: Oh, man, I thought about this one too. This is a hard one. Mike, probably the cavity.

[31:47] Speaker 1: that's fun to sing. It was really fun to dance. It's got that sultry kind of jazzy vibe. I always love that number. Yeah, I'm gonna go with that one.

[32:03] Mike Abrams: Yeah. I always ask a fun one. So based on your profession, Which one, which cat do you think we'd be the best teacher for a class of nine year olds?

[32:11] Speaker 1: Oh, class of nine year olds? Probably Jenny, because she's lovable and fun. I was gonna say skimble. Skimble can be a little strict, though, so I think, I think skimble would be able to keep the nine year olds in line really well. But I also think Jenny could totally do that, but also be just that fun, lovable, you know, teacher you want to give a hug to, and love being in her class gives you that kind of grandma, mom, warm feeling.

[32:42] Mike Abrams: Yeah, I've thought to the teacher question, and I think the answer is Jenny skimbles, the principal, and bomb ballerina and Tugger are your substitute teachers.

[32:52] Speaker 1: Tugger is the really cool sub that like is like, you can do whatever you want for the day. Actually, moncuss would be a good teacher too, but for nine years, I think he'd be teaching, like, high school, college.

[33:03] Mike Abrams: Yeah, I like that. Okay, most important question I have argued at length that I don't think there's a Jellicle choice, so I wouldn't want to hear I want to hear your. I'll give my answer after, but, okay, okay, but I want to hear your. I want to hear your Jellicle choice first. So if you Allison, are picking, who are you picking and why I feel

[33:26] Speaker 1: like I'm still picking Grizz, I really do because she, we we forgive her, and everyone forgives her, and forgiveness is is such a gift, right? When you've done something, whatever that was, that was wrong, that hurt someone else, that you regret, like that's hard to live with. When you're not forgiven like you want, you say you're sorry, that doesn't mean that person or whatever like doesn't mean you get forgiveness for it, but that's something we long for, and it like lets us breathe easier when when someone does truly forgive us for what we've we've done wrong. So I think it's really beautiful that she is the one chosen, whether it was truly her time or not. It's like she can now have that deep breath of like I can move on, because I've received this forgiveness, I've received this love that I so desperately wanted, and she's able to, you know, move on and have the next chapter of her Nine Lives.

[34:46] Mike Abrams: Yeah, so I don't disagree with any of that, except, why does she have to die? Why can't she just spend the year with her family, like, why can't you have that exact same story and not let her continue?

[35:01] Mike Abrams: mean, reborn, right? Like you're sending her away from the family. She's getting removed from the tribe at the end. She's not going up to come right back down, like you're sending her away, right?

[35:13] Speaker 1: I mean, so, yeah, it's, it's a little open ended, but it's like, if she's reborn, she's reborn as another cat so she gets to, like, live another I don't know. You know, there's, there's a lot of what if and like, I don't know. Yeah, there's a lot of questions that I feel like are kind of left up to the viewer.

[35:38] Mike Abrams: Totally. I have no issues with the redemption arc story. I firmly believe that it's an important part of the message and exists. My problem is, is that she gets Welcome back, and then it's like, okay, bye, we're gonna kill you now. Peace girl, like, instead of having a full year like, oh, we just like, you finally got that family to bring you back in, it's like, spend some time with them, like they're they're open to you now, yeah, no,

[36:05] Speaker 1: I get that too. I totally get that. But then how would you end the show? How does it end? We're just all like, Dude and Grizz are on the tire singing together, and like, we're having a party maybe.

[36:17] Mike Abrams: So there's two. I think there's one way that I would do it, but there's two ways I think you run the exact same show with no change, except for when you get to that, up, up, up. Yeah, instead of right before that, just give her, like, a big family reunion and hug, and then it's like, we line everybody up, and it's like, Who's going tonight? And then you vote from the audience, or you just, like, draw strong, yeah. Like, you have some conversation about this, and then somebody else goes up, up, up, and then you end the show the same way. Yeah,

[36:48] Speaker 1: yeah. Well, hey, when you do cats, when you remake it, you can do it your way. I've

[36:54] Mike Abrams: been pitching every person, including one of your previous cast mates, that has done this as a director, to do this with me. The problem is I have no ability to do any other parts of the show. I couldn't teach you any dance numbers. I don't know anything about singing like all I can give you is the idea,

[37:12] Speaker 1: the idea that's okay you hire one of us to come in and set all the stuff that we know. Yeah, you all do the rest. You do everyone. Please do the rest. We'll do the rest. That would be kind of fun. It's like, you know, what is it? The marvelous wonder rats. You get to, like, pick the ending of the show or whatever. So it's like, you get to write down who, who gets to go to the heavy side layer that night. It'd be kind of fun. Which cat is it gonna be? I

[37:34] Mike Abrams: think it'd be great. I think it'd be great fun. Whether it's by like, the audience chooses, which just means, like, whose family is in the crowd it's the loudest, or just a different city has a different take. Like, it would be fun,

[37:46] Speaker 1: yeah? Like, maybe it's Tugger one night, rock star cat, yeah?

[37:51] Mike Abrams: Or, like, exactly there's gonna be, there's gonna be some skewing, I'm sure. But I just like the idea of a different cat going every night.

[37:57] Speaker 1: That's fun. I like it too. Keeps everyone guessing. Man, we still have to give rizabella her redemption, though. It's like the heart. Well, that's

[38:05] Mike Abrams: the thing. Is she still can, yeah, she still brought back to her family, so you still have the same story. I don't want her to not get that moment. I think it's critical, yeah, but I just don't, she doesn't have to go the tire,

[38:19] Speaker 1: the tire, and then the spaceship, the pot. You know what I'm talking about, the little pot. We called it the called it the pod. Yeah, it's also, like, felt like it was a spaceship. Like, where is she going? Yeah,

[38:27] Speaker 2: someone else could go send Gus up there. He needs

[38:34] Mike Abrams: This has been super fun. How can people stay in touch with you on social media, with everything else you're working on,

[38:41] Speaker 1: yeah, yeah, yeah. So I have a professional account that, like all my professional endeavors. It's Allison underscore, little underscore professional on my Instagram account. And then I teach. I'm here in Nashville, Tennessee, and I teach, I choreograph around town, I have my own production company called kerosene creative productions, and you can also find us on Instagram at kerosene creative productions. And I actually run a professional training program through my production company called Ignite. And what I do is kind of train up this next generation of performers who are, you know, wanting to get into the entertainment industry, whether that be theater or dance or even like, you know, they are looking for colleges to audition for things like that. We offer professional classes and workshops and intensives for them to help, you know, get them going and get them ready. And everyone that comes in and teaches for my program are also industry pros who've been either, you know, in a professional ballet company or Done, done professional work, uh, commercially theatrically, for 1020, plus years. Um, so, yeah, we. We run classes throughout the year, typically, like, start classes in fall, like August, and we'll run through, you know, November, so and then I'll do a whole session that begins again in January. I normally take a break for the summer, but we've got some good stuff going on, so you can follow us there and find out about it. Can also email me at Allison, at kerosene productions.com and, you know, find me there and ask me any questions.

[40:27] Mike Abrams: Amazing. Well, we'll link everything too, so it was easy to find in the notes, but thank you for sharing all the fun stories and your experiences. It's been super fun having

[40:35] Speaker 1: you. Yeah, I really, really appreciate you asking. This has been a, you know, a blast, just like down, traveling down memory lane. So it was great,

[40:44] Mike Abrams: awesome. Well, thank you, and thanks everyone for listening to this episode of the wrong cat died. The podcast, break down the cat's atrophy. To follow along, you can subscribe on Apple podcast, Spotify, or NPL system podcast, plus on Twitter, Instagram, tick tock and threads at the wrong cat died. Or check our website, the wrong cat died. Calm. You.