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[0:00] Speaker 1: Hi, I'm Ariana Grande. Hi, I'm Cynthia Erivo, and you're listening to the Broadway Podcast Network. Visit vpm.fm to discover more.

[0:29] Speaker 2: Welcome to the wrong cat died the podcast breakdown of the catastrophe. I'm your host, Mike Abrams, and today we have a special guest with us. She was Jenny Annie dots in the 2016 Broadway revival of cats. Welcome Eloise crop and thanks for joining us.

[0:42] Speaker 3: Hi. Thank you. So here, yes, we're

[0:47] Speaker 2: excited to have you. I'm very excited because I've I think your character has a lot of depth that I want to dig into, and I would love to hear from your experience finding that character. But before we get into that, I want to know early on, when you were starting to take on this role, you were you were thinking about it and you were going to audition for it, how much cats knowledge did you have going in? Are you one of the theater members who knew about it, saw it as a kid, kind of was all in on it, or were you the one who had no idea?

[1:20] Speaker 3: So I had done a production of Cats when I was in seventh grade, but it was like the most. It was like the smallest version of cats ever. It was like the opening number. It was the runtime Tugger, it was memory, and it was like the end. So I didn't that was it. So I thought it was like a one act show that was like, you know, 45 minutes to an hour and had like, four or five cat characters. So I that's like, what I thought cats was. So

[1:54] Speaker 2: that's interesting. So the only, how did they pick those, those two songs, like, How'd they pick Rum Tum Tugger? And, I mean, I guess you have to pick memory,

[2:02] Speaker 3: yeah, I think, like it was, maybe there was one more in there, maybe skimble Shanks was in there, if I'm remembering correctly, but it was like, there was no childcare ball. There was no like, truly, it was just like, song, song, song, memory. Yeah,

[2:23] Speaker 3: So I had no context of what cats was like going into the audition. And I just knew that everyone was auditioning for it. And I knew that my mom had told me, like, when I first moved to New York, she was like, you can do like any show you want, and I will be so, so excited for you, but like, please don't ever be in cats.

[2:45] Speaker 2: Wow, just right away. Just that's one show. Like,

[2:48] Speaker 3: that was the one show. She was like, Please don't be in cats, because it freaks me out. And I was like, Oh, okay. So then I, like, was auditioning, yeah, no, I was auditioning for it. And I went in for like, every single cat possible. So I had no idea, like, who I was gonna be. Like for a bit, I was like, I'm gonna be a swing. I have no idea, because I was going in for every cat, because I was initially called in for rumble teaser, okay? And then I was like, auditioned for every other cat. And then finally, the last cat I went in for was Jenny Annie dots.

[3:21] Speaker 2: So did your mom like your seventh grade production?

[3:25] Speaker 3: We never talked about it. I played the Rum Tum Tugger. I played the Rum Tum Tugger in the seventh grade production. Oh,

[3:36] Speaker 3: I did the whole thing up the octave like it was. It's pretty much amazing.

[3:41] Speaker 2: Did you like that is an aggressive dance for a seventh year? Did you? Did you really get after it as a rock star in your production?

[3:51] Speaker 3: Absolutely all like four foot five of me was like whipping my tail around and making all these other cats dance around me. And

[4:01] Speaker 2: that is, that is incredible. It was amazing. Had you, had you seen it before the seventh grade production? No, okay, so you were, you went in cold. You didn't. You weren't given a lot of direction, probably, as a seventh grader, besides rock star.

[4:15] Speaker 3: No, it was like, it's the romton tiger. He's like a rock star cat. And I was like, Oh, cool. And then I, like, started seeing the show, or started, like, in the audition process. And then I was like, I should probably watch this show. And, like, I remember sitting down and watching it in, like, looking at my friend and being like, Wait, this is a whole to act like. This is two acts like, this is a whole thing, like, Who are all these characters? What are they like? I'm so, what is happening? I was like, cats is one act. It's like 45 minutes. And he was like, No, it's like two and a half hours. In seventh

[4:51] Speaker 2: grade, it's one act. That's because that's all your parents could could take.

[4:55] Speaker 3: In seventh grade, it was one act. But in real life, I didn't. Realized it was that long.

[5:01] Speaker 2: Yeah, they, I mean, they kind of have to cut some too. Anyways, when you've got Macavity and abusive relationship, the joke a ball is basically an orgy. Like, there's some stuff that's probably not seventh grade appropriate.

[5:11] Speaker 3: Yeah, absolutely not. So it was smart that they cut it. But I just felt very sheltered for a long time, until I actually found out that it was a whole thing. I

[5:21] Speaker 2: would love to hear from the director of your seventh grade production, and know how they chose just those characters? Like, was it based off of that's the songs they liked? Or like, you know, you could easily put a Mungo Jerry and rebel teaser in there. That would be, yeah, more people on stage. Like, how did they come to the conclusion of just these couple songs.

[5:41] Speaker 3: I have no idea. I think he just is like, I'm sure it was a thing. My guess would be that he's like, picked songs that he knew the students could do, and then was like, these are the songs we'll do.

[5:55] Speaker 2: Okay, I could see that. I'm trying to think, if there's any song that's would have been easier. Um, with no, I don't know. I mean, the tap dance number would be hard with your character, the great Russell for Jones is pretty simple, yeah,

[6:16] Speaker 2: So, okay, so you go from seventh grade of of a one act show to to auditioning, and you said you watched the movie, and that's kind of where you broke down and understood what was, what was really going on.

[6:29] Speaker 3: Kind of, I mean, I was still super confused. And at that point, I was going in for so many different cats that I was, like, trying to grasp, like, at straws, and then I had actually told Leslie Margarita, like, before I knew anything about cats, because we had done games at sea together. And she was like, Oh, they're doing cats on Broadway. And I was like, Oh, my God, you'd probably be there's like, that tap dance cat. You'd be amazing, Leslie, because I knew that cat was like, older, and I was like, Oh, my God, you need to be going in for Jenny or and she was like, she laughed at me, and was like, hahaha. So then the running joke was like, when I got it, she was

[7:20] Speaker 2: and you got and you got the role. So when you got the role, how much direction was given to you on, I mean, again, you you thought it was a one act show, like, how much direction was told to you on, the backstory of, of what this is about.

[7:32] Speaker 3: I mean, we, like, sat the first day and, like, read the poems with Trevor Nunn. That was like eight hours of us sitting in a circle, and he read us like all the poems and told us a bunch of like backstory of how the show was created. It wasn't necessarily a lot about like each individual character. And then the next day was like the day where we crawled around on our hands and our knees for like eight hours, and they would give us like words that sort of were like the essence of our characters, like broad, like broad words. So like, one of my words was, like, motherly and, and, you know what I mean? So they were like, things like this, um, but that was like, kind of it, there really wasn't, or they would be, like, my favorite was, um, well, Jenny wouldn't do that. Or like, they would you would like do something with your cat, and they'd be like, no, no, Jenny wouldn't do that. Example. Well, there was this part that me and Jeremy were doing because he played skimball. So we spent a lot of the show together, because Jenny and skimble are, like, kind of naughty together. But um, so we like, did this part in this one moment that was like choreography. And I just distinctly remember like, Andy kept this in it for a long time because we were good at it. We like, it was like he went into a cartwheel, and he like, assisted me, like, in this cartwheel in slow motion, and like, set me down. And then like, Grizabella entered for the first time, and this at the other blah, blah, blah, blah. But it was like, a lot of people were doing it, and he wanted to, like, create, like, this visual effect with bodies. But the London team had, like, this whole thing. They were like, well, Jenny and skimble wouldn't do that. Jenny and skimble wouldn't do that. Like, then it was just like, why? Like, what are these rules?

[9:20] Speaker 2: I so. So, okay, so it was more of, like, certain scenarios that just like, there's no way your character would be in that situation. Yeah.

[9:28] Speaker 3: So then a lot of the show, what was really funny is, like, I got to create a lot of my show because i i got like, a lot of freedom. There would be, like, a lot of times where I think they either forgot about me or, like, if you weren't in like, the front of the choreography that they were studying that day, you just kind of were like fending for yourself as like, in the background of the junkyard. And

[9:53] Speaker 2: that's where you needed to make sure you were doing stuff Jenny would do,

[9:56] Speaker 3: yeah, and that's where I made sure that I was like, You. Doing Jenny stuff. So

[10:01] Speaker 2: what? How would you describe Jenny stuff? Like, what is your, what is your backstory for Jenny? Um,

[10:07] Speaker 3: I mean, Jenny is definitely the motherly cat. I like, spent a lot of time with Electra, syllabub and pouncable, which are, like, the three kittens. I think that Jenny just, she has this, um, she kind of, like, keeps everyone together in the clan, in the tribe. You know what? I mean, she's very much like, I think one of the things that was always so like thematic for me was the fact that, like, Jenny's number was first, and really, like, set the show, and like, set the stakes of the night. And I think Jenny always knew. I always knew I wasn't gonna win, even though I wanted to win, but I knew that, like, I was setting the stage for everyone else, and, like, setting the bar, per se. But I think, like, my job as Jenny was, like, I really did, like, coerce the kittens a lot in my a lot of my track I created to, like, make sure that, like, every moment I knew exactly where those kittens were and knew where like threats were. And then the moment that I really got to, sort of like, let go and let loose was during the Jellicle Ball. That was the moment where I really got to, sort of like, let go of this motherly instinct, let go of this, like, need to protect and take care of and just be like, Jenny, you know, Jenny from the block, like, chilling out and having a fun time. Yeah. So

[11:38] Speaker 2: the It's interesting you kind of, you say that so because I thought, when you're you going first is a disadvantage in any competition show, you know, it's not, it's not good to be at the beginning of America's Got Talent episode. You want to the you want to be at the end. You know, that's when the best scenario. So you, you were stacked against your chance of winning, absolutely. But you should have been more in the running as the mother, as kind of at the, you know, in the age group of the different cats you're in the group that should be more likely to be winning. So it's interesting to hear you say that you just knew you weren't going to win. Yeah,

[12:13] Speaker 3: I mean, I wanted to win, obviously, but I knew as Jenny, I knew I was too important to go. Yet

[12:20] Speaker 2: interesting. You can't leave.

[12:24] Speaker 3: I couldn't leave. I had responsibilities. So why

[12:28] Speaker 2: does your character nap then most of the day?

[12:32] Speaker 3: Because most of the day is when everyone else is awake, and at night is when everyone's asleep. So that's when they need someone to be awake for them and protect

[12:41] Speaker 2: Okay, so that's your protector. You're protecting at night, when they're asleep, when you're teaching mice to make scarves and cockroaches to tap dance.

[12:49] Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly. That's all I took away

[12:54] Speaker 3: yeah, like Jenny, if Jenny was a house cat? Because there's like, lots of controversy about whether if Jenny was a house cat or not, there's like, a lot of like, backstory, but I never had a caller. So I don't think Jenny is a house cat.

[13:08] Speaker 2: The Wikipedia fan page has you as a owned by the landlord and an indoor cat, yeah,

[13:16] Speaker 3: but I don't know, like, I didn't have a caller. So unless, like my owner, just was a bad owner and didn't put a collar on me, then

[13:26] Speaker 2: part of the rationale, I think, is the having the fur, the additional your Quick Change halfway through the dance. And so I think that's part of the the reason, or at least the rationale, right? There's a lot of plot holes, so it's like, we can't really fix them all, though.

[13:46] Speaker 3: But I made Jenny, like, you know, I think she's one of those crazy cats that, during the day, you're like, My cat is so calm, all she does is sleep, and then at night, she's that crazy cat that, like, bugs the shit out of you and doesn't go to sleep at night, like, is in nocturnal, you know, those cats that are, like, jumping up on the window and, like, you know, scratching the blinds and, like, doing all the annoying things, but like, only at night,

[14:11] Speaker 2: and and you're not just doing that. You're tap dancing through the night to keep everyone awake, to keep everyone awake. So when you got the role and you're watching the movie, did you? Did you go, Oh, my mom's right, I'm about to do a tap dance number with 15 cockroaches tap dancing behind me.

[14:27] Speaker 3: Well, I knew that it wasn't going to be cockroaches, because Andy was like, we're not doing cockroaches. So we did mice. Okay, we'd like the little mice and, like, so much better. Yeah. And there was, like, a moment where the boys came on and they had the little like cockroach outfit, but no one else put like those on, because he was, like, insistent. He was like, I hate that. They all are cockroaches. It doesn't make any sense. I don't like it this. That the other, okay, so you

[14:54] Speaker 2: had the other, the other fearful roommate in New York, instead of cockroaches, he had the mice. Behind you, yeah, what was, again, what was going through your head when you realize that you're gonna get to do this, like, incredible number, front and center tap dancing, and you're gonna have a bunch of mice behind you doing it with you.

[15:13] Speaker 3: I mean, I don't think I really processed it like that. I don't know. I think I was sort of like, oh, we get to do this number, but with that number, as we were developing it, like, we changed it a lot from the original. I don't know if you remember, like, we had like, the mop that I sat on, and they, like, ran it around the stage, and then there were like, balls, and then there was the clock. And then so it became more of this idea of, like Jenny dancing and having to get everything done against the clock, as opposed to, like, her teaching the cockroaches being the whole number. So there was just, like, a lot of busy stuff. So that stressed me out, because I'm not a huge prop person, so all of a sudden I'm like, in this number tapping. But also, like having to deal with all these props, which for me, was like, sometimes my worst nightmare.

[16:05] Speaker 2: And Did, did you when you first saw that? And you're like, I don't want to, you know, kind of this gonna be much harder. Did you go? Jenny wouldn't do that. Jenny wouldn't play with props. I

[16:14] Speaker 3: should have that would have been funny. No, I didn't. I was like, yes, yes, yeah.

[16:19] Speaker 2: Okay, right. So when you Okay, let's change gears then, because I think you're I've had since I preparing for today, I've had your song stuck in my head for like, a week, but I want to talk about you said that you're with skimba Most the time, but there's a lot of rumor mill on the cats family tree. It's, in my opinion, a bunch of dotted lines. There's a few other people have done more research on it than I have, but there's some thoughts that you might be more related to Old Deuteronomy, or bust of her Gus, which I think is just picking the age demographics for you, for your character, and that you might be Grizabella sister. So did you think about those things

[17:03] Speaker 3: I did? So I didn't think that I was Grizabella sister. I definitely thought that we had a connection, like a relationship growing up, and that we used to be friends, and then she betrayed us, and then we were no longer friends, because in all of the scenes where Grizabella came onto the stage, I was one of the first people to react to get her away, to shoe her away. And it was always set up like stage wise, I was closest to her initially, or I would watch her, like, go away, and I would be the first one to kind of like, shoo her away. So I never thought of her as my sister, but I did think of her as a friend who I used to we used to be friends,

[17:49] Speaker 2: but you must have thought of her as a threat, and that's part of why you're showing her way, because you're protecting everyone. Yeah,

[17:56] Speaker 3: I didn't, I didn't want her. She betrayed us, and as easily as that, and like, when you know you're looking for reason and moments, you go with the most powerful moment. And it's like she betrayed us. She no longer belongs. She cannot be here.

[18:11] Speaker 2: And you're the protector of the kitten, so you are the first one saying, Get out. Yeah, poetic

[18:17] Speaker 3: and yeah. And at the end of the show, I was one of the last people to accept the fact that she was going to the Heaviside Layer. It took me a long time because

[18:28] Speaker 2: you wanted to win. Of course, yeah. I mean, who doesn't want to be the cat that gets murdered? I

[18:34] Speaker 3: mean, cats to me, this is like, totally changing the subject, but cats to me is a chorus line with cats.

[18:42] Speaker 2: Okay, I've not thought of it that way. That's an interesting version of it. I think of it as America's Got Talent, or the X Factor, or any of those competition shows. And I think part of that is because I saw Leona Lewis, who was on one of those, and that was the first person. So I was like, oh, yeah, this each person sings, someone wins, and she won. And so that was kind of like my perception. And as I watched it, more and more, it's now a dark, dark version of that, where it's a slightly sexually charged competition show with a murder at the end.

[19:16] Speaker 3: I don't know, go back and watch it, thinking of it as A Chorus Line, the setup as the show of the show. Like the way it's set up is so similar to A Chorus Line, it's almost creepy.

[19:28] Speaker 2: I'll have to, okay, I'll have to watch it. I've not watched in that fashion. I don't know how many more times I can can mentally Watch it, watch it, watching it. So I'll have to find a way to do that off the refresh on Chorus Line too, because, yeah, I'm

[19:42] Speaker 3: you just think, like people, you know, the opening number is very like, everyone dancing together, like the opening number of A Chorus Line. Then we have, like, these individual numbers where people are, like, showing who they are, and like, proving themselves and like, and then. We have like, the big Jellicle Ball moment, which is super similar to, like, the montage of, like, hello, you know, all that stuff in a chorus line. And then you have, like, more individual numbers, getting to know people and getting to know Grizabella, which should be like, Cassie. You know what? I mean, like, it's, there's a lot of, there's a lot of similarities, okay,

[20:22] Speaker 2: I like, I like the thought. I mean, I my Broadway knowledge is so limited, right? I don't, I'm tying it more to pop culture and other things that I more aware of than I am to the, you know, A Chorus Line, or other shows like that. But that's a an interesting take, and I will, I will dig into it, because I am now curious.

[20:45] Speaker 2: let's talk about the different songs. So I'm fascinated by that you only knew a couple of them until you auditioned because of your your one act version in the seventh grade. But if you were not playing Jenny and you got to sing dance, take another character's kind of arc. Who would you want to take?

[21:18] Speaker 3: Um, I mean, I think, like, Rumble teasers, just so like, she's such, like a little rebel, like she doesn't really like, she's just kind of like a little jerk, like you're like, all the things that she does. It's kind of like me, like a little teasy. And I think that would just be super fun. Like Mongo Jerry, to me, is a little bit more level headed, at least the way that, like Jess played it, whereas rumble teaser got to just be a little bit more kooky and crazy and spastic. And I, like, always thought that'd be super, super fun. And then, I mean, I think Demeter, just because, who doesn't want to be like a scaredy sexy cat with, like, a lot of backstory.

[22:03] Speaker 2: It's those are an interesting too, because when I first saw the show, the only song I sang for like, the next week was Mongo, Jerry, rebel teaser. And as I've done this podcast, the one I sing and like, think about most often is Macavity, right? Because that's, to me, that's the most interesting song. Now, yeah, or

[22:22] Speaker 3: I'd want, or I would want to be like a guy part, do, I mean, like, I would either want to be like those two women, or I would want to be like

[22:32] Speaker 2: a guy part, which guy part would be your number one? I mean,

[22:35] Speaker 3: I think being like the best for gust truck would be amazing. That's

[22:40] Speaker 2: and then you get to be Peter. And then you get to be Peter,

[22:46] Speaker 2: who does not exist in any other production, I've found out, besides yours.

[22:49] Speaker 3: Hey, I think they were like Peter. What did at first, when we did the whole naming of cats with like Andy reinvented it. Did anybody ever talk about this? No, we like, Yeah, we like, reinvented it. So we all like spoke individual lines and like this at the other and at one moment these, like people were like saying their names as they like, walked out of line and Chris ger said, Peter.

[23:20] Speaker 2: And I think it's in the naming, the name, the poem,

[23:24] Speaker 3: and that's how it stuck. I think that's like, literally, how they decided it was Peter. Yeah,

[23:29] Speaker 2: that's, that's the only reason it's been a running pet peeve of mine, of this entire show, is that that, you know, you get all these amazing names and you got Peter,

[23:37] Speaker 3: yeah, but that's Bill Bailey. Bill Bailey. Bill

[23:43] Speaker 2: Bailey, yeah, there's a couple, there's a couple, but Peter just is, like, it's just out there, yeah, for, especially for the for the show. Okay, so I want to ask a similar question, but a different way. Have you ever heard about cats? Tumblr,

[24:02] Speaker 2: I did not either, until my last guest, who is a super fan who educated me on this, and I it is essentially a group of super fans who all interact with each other as if they are the character and end up in scenes together. So, yeah, it obviously can go, yeah. It's, I mean, and they're very, you know, it can go a lot of ways. It's yeah. There are a lot of, like, fun situations where they just essentially say, What would, to your point, Jenny wouldn't do that. It's that type of thing. What would, what would Jenny do in that situation? So, if you were going to take over a cat's Tumblr character and get to interact in normal scenes of today, or just they might I am a little fearful and why I will not participate as I think that they their scenes might get a little promiscuous, is, I think, the the nice way of saying it, but Sure, but if you were just in a normal scene, let's just say there you run into another Canada. Grocery store, or just something's happening. You're on the subway together. Which cat would you want to be a tumbler owner for?

[25:13] Speaker 3: I already know a lot about Jenny, and I grew to love her character, like at first I had, like a midlife crisis, because I was 24 when I got the role, and I was, like, so confused. I was like, I'm way too young for this. I don't understand why I'm this part like this, that the other and I actually, like it really grew into the character, and like, grew to love her and her, like, weird quirks, and I don't know, I just felt like it was, it was a super fun kind of type of personality, because she has so much, so much depth and so much level. Like, yes, she is the mom cap, but she's kind of a cool mom. Yeah.

[25:55] Speaker 2: I mean, I think Jenny would be a really fun one. So you get to play protector in a lot of situations. But, and you also, I mean, you have like, an army behind you of mice and cockroaches, which in New York City in those situations, would be powerful,

[26:11] Speaker 3: yeah. And, and if you think about it, if you break it down, there's really not a lot of cats in the show who don't like Jenny? That's true. That's very true. Really likes Jenny. And so there was, that was, that was like a nice there was no cats that I was like, I don't, I mean, I didn't like Tugger, but that was because I liked Tugger. Yeah, yeah. Who doesn't

[26:43] Speaker 3: was like, I shouldn't like Tugger, because this is a bad example. But like, come on.

[26:50] Speaker 2: So taking Jenny out of the equation. Now, who would you what cat would you want to be quarantined

[26:54] Speaker 3: with? What cat would I want to be quarantined with? Yeah, if you

[26:58] Speaker 2: had to be quarantined with one of the characters, which not actors, characters

[27:04] Speaker 3: quarantine with not monkey strap. Um, yeah, I guess rank

[27:09] Speaker 2: them here, then they'd be even better. Okay, who's the absolute? No way. You don't want to be at all involved with him. And then who's, like, all right, I consider it. And then you're number one.

[27:17] Speaker 3: I wouldn't do monkey strap just because, like, he was always sort of preachy and annoying to me, narrating, yeah, like, near like, Come on, we can, we can talk. And he just had a little bit of air. He felt better than everybody else. And I don't know, I wouldn't want to be quarantined with him. He's a little too high STRUG. He needs a little bit like, he needs stroking of the ego, and Jenny's not gonna do that. Is

[27:43] Speaker 2: he your number one? No, or some. I mean, you've got to have a cavity lower, right?

[27:48] Speaker 3: Yeah. I mean, I wouldn't want to be quarantined with Macavity, although Macavity might, like, surprise everyone and be like, someone who's super awesome to quarantine with. He might manipulate you. And, you know, after quarantine, you'd be like, I definitely was manipulated. But in the actual events, you might have fun. Um, I mean, if I had to do like, friend wise, I would probably say, like jelly Lorem, because we were always good friends in the show. So we would have a fun time quarantining together. What about

[28:24] Speaker 2: non friend? Well, there's just, like, you know, the dream scenario you just, you know, you're gonna get stuck. Who you picking?

[28:31] Speaker 3: Um, let me see, I'm trying to think of who, who I would pick, non drink, like non actual show scenario, um, I'm trying to think of what a mod cat's name was, Alonzo. I would choose Alonzo alanzo, yeah,

[28:59] Speaker 2: I would choose Alonzo. That's an interesting choice.

[29:03] Speaker 3: He's second in command from like, from monk strap, but I feel like his overall character is pretty grounded, and that would be like a fun person to be

[29:18] Speaker 2: in quarantine with. I said last time I asked this question, I said, Mr. Mercopelles, because you get magic, you get a bundle of fun, a lot of entertainment. But I'm leaning towards bus for Jones now, because I think we'd eat well, that's pretty low maintenance. We'd probably be at like, a country club situation, so I can maybe golf like I feel like that's the life we'd be living

[29:40] Speaker 3: but don't you worry that like, Buster Jones would just, like sleep and like, eat too much and sleep all the time, and then, like, you actually wouldn't really have, like, a quarantine buddy. You'd have just, like this fat cat who ate too much all the time and is just sleeping. Yeah.

[29:55] Speaker 2: I mean, that's that's totally fair, but isn't that what most of us have been doing in quarantine? Anyways, like, I can watch Netflix with him asleep next, you know, on the couch next to you.

[30:08] Speaker 2: Yeah, there's, there's no, there's no right answer, but there's definitely some wrong answers. I think that's kind of boils down to,

[30:13] Speaker 3: I mean, if you were to choose, like, carbuckety, come on, that'd be a stupid choice. Even mango Jerry and rebel teaser, no, come on, they'll steal everything from you. You don't want to be quarantined with them. I mean, Old Deuteronomy could be a good choice.

[30:28] Speaker 2: Yeah, I would feel being, I feel like I'd be judged the whole time, though, really, I mean, that's his job, like he is the decision maker. I feel like every, you know, everything I'd be doing would be being graded for if I can get, you know, to the Heaviside Layer.

[30:44] Speaker 3: Yeah, I guess, though, like, I don't know you hadn't ever, like, experienced the, like, Old Deuteronomy, like he's just non judgmental, like he's he's making the choice. But I believe it's not really him making the choice. He's just connecting with, like, the universal energy from above to gain the choice.

[31:07] Speaker 2: Oh, so that's, that's a very interesting way to look at it, because then that would be why he's not even in the running, yeah, which I think he should be in the running,

[31:16] Speaker 3: but he's, he's not. He can't be. I think he already was in the running in the past, and like, got rebirth, and now he was rebirth for the final time as Deuteronomy. And they were like, your rebirth is to help us make this choice. That's

[31:36] Speaker 2: very likely, and makes a ton of sense. And I think that's the beauty of this show, is that there's no no rhyme or reason or answer to any of these questions, right?

[31:47] Speaker 3: There's no right answer. But that's always how I felt, like I never felt judged by Deuteronomy. I always felt, I mean, it was always the feeling of like a warm hug, like he was your he was your father. In a sense, he was everyone's father. He was never like and he was trying to get us all to make the kind right choice, which, in the end, wasn't competing against each other. In the end, it was all us deciding who really needed to be rebirthed the most

[32:18] Speaker 2: when I watched the show before I researched the show, when I saw the show and again, no idea, walked out, still didn't know what was going on. The only thing I remember as characters, he sat on stage during intermission, and that like blew my mind, that that the one that, like an actor, would be willing to do that like they would be say, Sure, I'll give up this 15 minutes. But then two of, like, it took me about a good couple minutes to realize that it wasn't a prop, that it was an actual human, yeah, and then all of a sudden people started going out there and taking selfies. And so that was, like, all I really remember from the character. So it's interesting to hear, like a warm hug and kind of like all this, like godly features of it, because it's like the, if you just see the show, you're gonna remember memory, and probably a couple of the crazy dance numbers, like yours, Jay's dance number, Tugger right in the crowd. Well, I mean, yeah, I remembered your I remember that. I remember Tugger coming into the crowd. I remember MongoDB teaser because of, you know, the song stuck in my head, and then, oh my gosh, yeah. And then, honestly, a lot of the rest, I vividly remember skimble Shanks, because when they when you built the train, the light that you decided to flash into the crowd blinded me from where I was. So I was

[33:44] Speaker 3: like, that was who held the light. That was, oh, well,

[33:47] Speaker 2: I have a grab to pick. Because I was, I remember, I was like, Oh, this is really cool. And then I couldn't see it again, blind and the cat eyes part, the green eyes thing in the beginning, that was like my entire memory of the show the first time.

[34:03] Speaker 3: Thankfully, I didn't have to do green eyes. And I was always so happy. You're

[34:08] Speaker 2: lucky didn't have to do it. Tyler says he got hit in the face. Yeah. I like, first, I

[34:13] Speaker 3: think it was because I was having a bad day, and Andy knew it. And so, like, this is exactly what happened. And I was like, thank I, like, went up to him after, and I was like, Thank you, because my number during tech was just like a nightmare, because the coat was like, 20 something pounds, and we didn't know it was going to be that heavy. My costume was 10. All the prop elements were, like, not working on the rake and, like, it was just like, so one thing after another, and I just remember, like standing on stage, like crying, like turning upstage being like, no one can see me cry, no one can see me cry. But like everything, like, felt like it was melting around me. Like I was like, and we were like, setting up the green eyes part, like, right after that. And. And I remember Andy being like, we like, about to take a break. And then they were like, We're gonna come back and do green eyes. And he was like, are you okay? And I was like, and then, like, left, then I came back. And they're like, all right, who, who starts in the house during, like, the opening number, and I don't remember who, who who volunteered me. Someone was like Eloise does. And I was like, and then everyone else, like, started volunteering. And then Andy was like, You, you, you, you, you, you. And then literally, like, skipped me. And was like, not, you, you, you, you, you, you, you. So I was like, one of the only people who started in the house like to walk through the house during Jellicle like the opening, who didn't do green eyes. Wow. And I was so thankful. Can

[35:50] Speaker 2: you imagine if you did green eyes in your seventh grade production? Oh my goodness. No. One of your parents like have a heart attack when you pop up next to them.

[36:03] Speaker 2: did your mom think? When did she come to see the show? Oh, yeah, of course. So what did she think when, you know she told you to do anything but and of course, that's what you go do. What did she What did she think of your production?

[36:15] Speaker 3: She actually, like, I distinctly remember, like opening night. She came and saw no she came first preview. She came first preview. And she knew that, like, you know, we done, we put up the show so fast, like five weeks of rehearsal, two weeks of tech, two weeks of previews, and then we were open. Like it was crazy fast. And it would have been fast to just said it was like, if it was the original production, but this was a whole new, reinvented version. So it was just, it was nuts. And I remember, I think it was first preview, and, like, the crowd was really packed. And she was like, wow, there are a lot of people here. And I remember texting me being like, there are a lot of people here. It's like, sold out. I was like, Oh, wow. And after the show, she was like, I actually, like, really liked it a lot more than I thought I was going to. So for me, that's

[37:08] Speaker 2: like, such a backing the compliment I was like, it was, it was better than I expected it to be. Well,

[37:12] Speaker 3: I think she thought, like, she would just not like it or relate to it at all. And the fact that she was like, I was thoroughly entertained the entire time, and I wasn't creeped out. And I thought it was like, she was like, I thought it was good. Like, really good. So I think her expectations were thinking that, like, she would hate it, and she would like, you know, go out intermission and not come back in

[37:34] Speaker 2: your parts, your main stuff's done. So, yeah, didn't head out

[37:38] Speaker 3: exactly, but she was like, I actually, she was like, I thought it was like, super, super, great. She really, really liked it. So I'll take it as a compliment. That's

[37:48] Speaker 2: awesome. I'm glad she went in with a low bar. I went in with no bar because I had no idea what I was going in to see. Okay, let's, here's the million dollar question now. So this is my entire podcast has been debating and arguing why Grizabella is not the right choice at the end of the show. So do you agree with me that Grizzle is not the right choice, or do you want to defend Grizabella? And if you don't want to defend Grizabella, who should die at the end of the other show? Hmm,

[38:22] Speaker 3: I mean, huh, it's, do I think grizabell is the right choice? It's like 5050, do I think you could have picked another cat? Absolutely like pick. I think you could have picked another guy. I mean, Gus could have been picked. I also think Demeter could have been picked. Ooh,

[38:47] Speaker 2: Demeter. No one's argued Demeter that I that, I think of a lot of people argue there's a big team Gus following out there.

[38:53] Speaker 2: We love team Gus. So argue demeters case. So I think

[38:59] Speaker 3: Demeter just has a lot of demons. Demeter has a lot of issues, and I think she has done wrong, and I think she is haunted by her past with all the Macavity stuff and getting involved with that, and I think that she potentially could go and be reborn and be freed of that, that past,

[39:25] Speaker 2: that's a very different way than I've thought about it. So I like hearing that, because you're saying that's like the the person who should die at the end is someone who has the demons who will benefit from being reborn. And I've said this is a competition, so who's got the best dance song and dance. That's how I've analyzed this very deep, very, very deep, like analysis of the show. I mean, if it's

[39:49] Speaker 3: about best song and dance, Jenny, but if we're like, breaking into, like, the story of who really needs help and who could really benefit from. Being reborn. I think Demeter is a good choice.

[40:02] Speaker 2: Is Demeter too young? No, no, great. I love it. Stick to it. I it's again, it's my it's one of my favorite songs now. Is her, her songs,

[40:15] Speaker 3: yeah bomb, ballerina, yeah. So good, so good. Oh,

[40:21] Speaker 2: that's, that's a that's an interesting, again, an interesting take. I've not thought about it from that perspective. I did. I was kind of Chris Kerr said that he didn't think Gus had a life, another life to live. So I thought that was very poetic of him, but also, like, that's why he thought no for Team Gus. But I, I've always I think, you know, it should be rum tuck Tugger and Mr. Mercafo is going up together. Why romanton Tugger? I When you talk about performances, I think the two of them have some showstoppers. And then I like the fact that the entire fan world thinks that they are together secretly. So I think that they should be a little kind of Burton Ernie scenario, and head up to the heavies that later

[41:08] Speaker 3: together. I mean, I like that. I just don't think mustafales is like too useful. They would never pick him his magic and his like, all the things he can do, there's no way he be reborn until he, like, is about to die.

[41:24] Speaker 2: That's true. But how many times does a magician one America's Got Talent like this is, this is a showstopper here, like again this, and I'm taking this from one literal angle. So that's why I know that this is a flawed way to analyze this, to analyze it. So I like, I love hearing you say that, like, you're picking Demeter for like, an, you know, a very thoughtful, real reason, instead of like, oh yeah. Like, if it was America's Got Talent or the X Factor, like, of course, we picked most.

[41:52] Speaker 3: Oh, absolutely. I mean, the way his number is placed also is, like, a huge benefit. He's, like, the last big number in the show, yep,

[42:01] Speaker 2: showstopper. Well, I mean, no memory is but yeah, well,

[42:04] Speaker 3: they're show stoppers in different ways. True. So very true. There's enough room for it all.

[42:11] Speaker 2: So this has been incredible. How can we find you on social media? Uh, you

[42:18] Speaker 3: can find me on Instagram. It's my name, Eloise crop, and that's probably the only thing I'm really on these days. I'm not really on Twitter or Facebook anymore, so I haven't,

[42:30] Speaker 3: Haven't taken up to tick tock yet. It feels like a lot of work, and I just don't know if I can commit

[42:40] Speaker 2: I don't blame you. I am not on it either. Well, thank you again for joining, joining me and sharing these very thoughtful ideas and ways to analyze a show again that I've never thought of. So I really appreciate you. You coming on and sharing your thoughts, of course, thank you. I do want to ask one more question before we go. If you now are doing your seventh grade production, what songs are you picking for your one act?

[43:13] Speaker 2: director, you're only gonna do one act. You're only gonna pick, like the couple songs. Pretend you've got the most talented kids in the world. So you can pick any of them. What's your order? What are you picking to tell a story in one act, opening,

[43:26] Speaker 3: Rum Tum, Tugger, Mungo, Jerry and rumble. Teaser, snippets of the Joe Cabal. Um, I think moments of happiness is really important. Um, I think skimble shanks and Mr. Police in the end, and memories.

[43:48] Speaker 2: That's, that's basically the show you cut yourself and and Gus,

[43:58] Speaker 3: for Gus, Macavity. You know

[44:06] Speaker 3: Well, you know, if I'm assuming the demographic of my theater program is mainly women,

[44:13] Speaker 2: okay, that's totally fair. No green eyes. Green eyes are now, no green eyes. Okay, I want you. I hope, I hope, sometime at the end of a career, when you're you've had a long, successful career, you go back and take on a music director at a some school, and you get to do a seventh grade version of cats, of cats. That is my my hope.

[44:36] Speaker 3: You know what? Never say, Never. Honestly, it'd be super fun. I

[44:43] Speaker 3: My mom would it might be her favorite thing I've ever done. Well,

[44:52] Speaker 2: thank you. Thank you again. This has been incredible. Thank you so thanks for listening to the. This bonus episode with Eloise crop on the wrong cat died, the podcast breakdown of the catastrophe. To follow along. You can subscribe on Apple podcasts, Spotify, Stitcher, or anywhere where you listen to podcasts. Please follow us on Twitter, Instagram, at the wrong cat died, or check out our website, the roncat died.com. You.