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[0:00] Speaker 1: Hi, I'm Ariana Grande, hi. I'm Cynthia Erivo, and you're listening to the Broadway Podcast Network. Visit vpm.fm to discover more. There's a cat over here. There's a cat over there. I'm

[0:31] Speaker 2: Welcome to the wrong cat died. The podcast breakdown of the cats. Tastrophe, I'm your host, Mike Abrams, and today we have another special guest. She starred as Victoria in the 2016 Broadway revival of cats. Welcome Georgina pescogan, and thank you for joining us.

[0:46] Speaker 3: Hi. Thanks so much for having me, Mike. So I

[0:49] Speaker 2: do want to kick things off, because I almost always ask everyone their history with cats. But you had before you got asked to audition, you've had a very long ballet career, and so I want to ask, kind of a What made you decide to say, Yeah, I'll go out for cats like I'll take on that audition.

[1:10] Speaker 3: That is a very long story. I will try to make it succinct how so I am a soloist with New York City Ballet. I had been performing there, had recently gotten promoted in 2013 and sort of like at a certain point in a large institutional ballet company, you get kind of like categorized and placed in these like boxes of what sort of roles you were due. So I was like, coming up against a lot of, like, barriers or ceilings, if you will. Like, it's it. It's, I am the first Asian American woman to ever be promoted out of the core of New York City Ballet in its 70 year existence. So that gives you an idea of the kind of people are used to seeing blonde hair, blue eyed ballerinas and this euro centric idea, and they're not really used to seeing like the Sugar Plum Fairy be this.

[2:11] Speaker 3: in that frustrate, I guess, like flat out frustration, I was seeking other ways to feed this artistry that I had, which I sort of started to moonlight on Broadway. I

[2:28] Speaker 3: this sounds super privileged, but I I've been taking a lot of theater classes. I've always been one to keep educating myself and dance. And my first foray was Josh Burgos. Josh called me. He had choreographed on the town, and then John Rando, who was directing it, called me, and I just happened to, like, make this decision one summer layoff that I was gonna go take tap classes again, bought tap shoes, and I get a call from John Rando being like, Hey, do you want to make your Broadway debut? Like, like, but like tomorrow and like tomorrow, sure, I mean, like, I'm on a layoff with New York City Ballet. This is like, I'm a free agent at this point. I was like, Yeah. So like, what happened is that, unfortunately, an ensemble dancer broke her toe, so I went in learn the track, and Josh knew that I'm a New York City ballet dancer, and what's kind of rare about our breed is that we learn choreography really fast. So I learned the entire show. I learned her entire track in a day, plus Ivy Smith's track, which is the title the lead role. And I had no idea what they were thinking, so they were going to have me cover Ivy, and I was gonna do so I had fun, like, two weeks, didn't on Broadway, and then I, like, left it, and then I came back and and did my summer season at Saratoga Springs, with New York City Valley. Get a call again. Hey, you know my colleague is leaving, Ivan Smith, the role we have an interim. Would she be willing to come in and play Ivy Smith for two weeks? And so, like, that's how then I just caught the Broadway bug. I mean, like, just being in that environment with these people, and having people surround you without this, like, the competitiveness in the ballet world is so intense. And it's not to say that competition isn't there in a Broadway world, but it was such a it was such a different and wonderful experience. So that's when I was approached to be like, would you ever be interested in auditing for cats? I was like, Ah, well, I'm flattered. But what cat would I be? Because I'm like, I'm not a Victoria. I mean, you've been talking to me for like, the past 10 minutes, and I'm like, the antithesis of what Victoria the white cat is. And I just wasn't sure. So I was like, sure they're like, just come do this audition. Come meet Andy. It was for a different project. I had a blast and audition, and I. Got kind of, you know, told like, Hey, you should do this. You should. And he kind of saw a different side of me. So he gave me a chance to be soft and feminine, which is something I'm not usually afforded to be at the ballet, believe it or not, like I play very feminine, strong characters at the ballet. And

[5:19] Speaker 2: so you at least had a preconceived notion of what Victoria was supposed to be. So when was the first time you were exposed to the musical pre audition, the

[5:28] Speaker 3: VHS tape? And I right here in Altoona, Pennsylvania, where I sit right now. After Catholic school, I would come home at around 230 and my first ballet class would start like 430 and so I would watch cats and alternate between cats and or Lord of the Dance. So I'm the ultimate nerd. Yeah, just those two just really obsessed about Celtic, Irish dancing and cats. And

[5:56] Speaker 2: so when you walk, how many times have you seen that, that VHS? Like, a lot. Did you ever burn through an entire VHS? Like, do you have a second one? No,

[6:07] Speaker 2: not that level, but close. Probably, yeah. I

[6:10] Speaker 3: mean, just I wasn't like, rewinding and going back and it just was, like, I just thought it was really bizarre. I mean, I also was the kid that sat there and watched Bob Ross and thought that that was the most thrilling TV of all time.

[6:24] Speaker 2: So Bob Ross, cats and Irish dancing, yeah?

[6:36] Speaker 3: Yeah, like ninth grade. Sad, sad. Gina,

[6:42] Speaker 2: so, okay, so you so you knew already you had, you had seen the VHS plenty of times, so you knew. And so you said, Hey, I'm probably not the typical Victoria. Did you who would you say you would have, like, thought, okay, that's who they want me for.

[6:59] Speaker 3: Well, I mean, I, she's the ballerina cat so, and I only had this one person's like portrayal in my mind. And like, I just wasn't she, she, she played this role as such. Like, there. There was an innocence there. But it almost an innocence in a, like, a fragile sort of way, which is like, and my whole approach to it was like, have you seen kittens? They're fucking crazy. They like, bounce off the ceiling, like, so I kind of infused it with my energy. And I think it, I think I found an it worked for me. Apparently it worked for Trevor Nunn and Andy Blanca Bucha too. And I do have to give some credit here that I was working with a company called American dance machine for the 21st century, and Nikki Atkins wanted me to do an excerpt which was the white cat solo, like out of context, which that's really weird. I know you want to talk to me about that dance, yeah, but it's really weird out of context. So, like, they were doing, like turkey lurky, which it's really weird

[8:09] Speaker 3: imagine, like me, like rolling onto the floor and like, doing this solo completely out of the blue in a in a montage of, like, highlights from

[8:19] Speaker 2: Broadway's best dance with no cats behind you, nothing,

[8:23] Speaker 3: no cats, not even dressed like a cat. So but what was the super, super, wonderful bonus out of that is I met and worked with Dame Jillian Lynn, who was the original choreographer, and got to learn how special her white cat was to her, and how much she had perseverated over choreographing that specific it's only like what 64 counts, possibly of music. It's quite short, that little solo, but how important it was to her and the touching interaction between her and her husband, or her husband finally was like, you know, Jilly, it's time, you know, like, it was like, a week before the show up, and she's like, you have to, it's time to put the white cat, bringing her to life. So that was a really special sort of, like, head start into the whole process and creating who Victoria is for me.

[9:22] Speaker 2: So what else were you told to help create that Victoria? Then, who is Victoria for you? Like, what's what backstory were you given? Um,

[9:33] Speaker 3: so my three secret words, so Trevor, none. And like, are you you've heard from other people?

[9:38] Speaker 2: The three secret words, yeah. And then also, like,

[9:41] Speaker 3: the craziness of what we like, just crawled around on our knees. I mean, can you imagine my like, delight from, like, going from ballet class, where it's like, super strict to, like, having to put on knee pads, and now they're just, like, crawl around in

[9:56] Speaker 2: a short period. You didn't have that much time to kind of be. No,

[10:00] Speaker 3: they were, you know, they did the casting, and then we got into a room, we did this whole circle where they introduced everyone. They were like, hey, everybody on the floor. And I was like, this is a wild,

[10:12] Speaker 2: yeah, it's a different, I mean, it sounds like a very different experience

[10:15] Speaker 3: in general, yeah, you just had to jump off the cliff or just get left behind in this like, like, so my words were innocent, romantic and unapologetic.

[10:31] Speaker 2: I wouldn't have expected that last one, yeah, and

[10:35] Speaker 3: I really kind of grabbed onto the unapologetic one.

[10:44] Speaker 2: So you okay. So those are your three words. Did you what kind of backstory did you come up with? Because I've heard from some of your other cast members that they had very intricate kind of thoughts about who their cat was going in. Did you have that or or did you kind of stick to your your words,

[11:00] Speaker 3: well, I wanted to, I knew, especially for the solo, that Jillian, you know, Andy was very forthright and saying that like he hadn't, like he wanted to honor like Jillian was, like, you can't touch white cat solo, you can mess around with whatever else you need to and improve upon. Or, you know, like, cut what you know, do it? Do you Andy, like, I think they had a very like symbiotic relationship in that, and they understood each other in the mutual respect of the choreography there. Yeah. But my backstory, you know, she's a young cat. I kind of it depended on the show. Sometimes I played her like a little bit of a ditz to until the second act. And then sometimes she would just be this wild feral thing, like, keeping in mind this, like, crazy idea how I've seen my friends kittens just like, go ape shit on an apartment. And so I have that capability in my performance quality, like a dance much bigger than my actual body frame. So I kind of cued into that in the bigger dance sequences. So like, my backstory, she was pretty young, so there's not, there's not a lot I can say. Like, I'm new to this whole, this is my first Jellicle Ball, first time being invite, invited. And, you know, I've got, like, my young friends, but I'm also like, like, you know, like Tyler Haynes and I were very close friends at the time, so it's just, like Tiger and Victoria don't really have a thing, but we made it a thing. So like, Victoria could also was, like, scrappy enough to, like, hang with the like, the more adult cats too, but she kind of like, respected the boundary. Starting

[12:56] Speaker 2: to think Tyler's friendships with actual actors are the reasons that there are a lot of cats rumor mill, like from that production, because I think he had relationships with so many people from the cast that you could see it or feel it on stage, and it was like a little maybe different than what they were expecting. But it's we talked about it when I interviewed him, because there was a couple where everyone's like, I don't know, they might hate each other, and he's like, No, we just had fun with that, you know, okay, okay, so

[13:23] Speaker 3: that's the backstory. And I also, like, had a collar, so I have imagined that I did have an owner, and that I, you know, like I wasn't one of the, you know, the Wildcats of the junkyard. So,

[13:35] Speaker 2: yeah, the rumor is your owners, the landlord of the junkyard, yes, of the, I think the house that MongoDB and rebel Ts are technically stealing from, wow.

[13:51] Speaker 2: So let's talk about your dance numbers. Because the two kind of major dance numbers, the one is the one you've, you know you've already talked about, which is the solo I know I was mess. I know nothing about dance, about ballet, about in general. I know nothing about singing. I was mesmerized when I saw it, because I just, I had no idea what I was going to go see. And that particular number sticks out because it's just like, it's everything stops around it, and it's just like the main focus. And it was, it was beautiful and, like, really, really cool, and just such a cool thing to see. Then I started reading kind of the backstory behind it, and it's like, there's a lot of rumors of how that is actually the interpretation of that. How would you describe the your solo dance number? Is it your? Oh,

[14:37] Speaker 3: it was definitely coming of age. It's a coming of age, but also, like, because of time constraints. And I was, like, doing this American dance Machine Project, like, off company hours. I was meeting Dame Jillian Lynn at like, 830 in the morning, and she would come in, she's like, Okay, this has to be from the nipples. And I'm like. I haven't even had a sip of coffee yet. What's going on? And she is fully sensual. I wouldn't say like sexual, but it is sensual, like this cat is starting to come into her own body and feel this like immense feline power. And I think it's also very much a feminist story. And I think, I think cats in general, and this whole late edition of Grizabella being the heroine it, it's all a super feminist story. And I can, I can elaborate upon that, but, like, there's no, isn't, but you read, right? Like, it's a very sensual solo. It's her, like, she would say, like, when I she wanted, like, the split to be very slow, and just as I, like, hit the ground, she wanted this, like, reverberation through my body. And she would then be like, it's like an orgasm Gina and I was like, it is not a clock in the morning.

[16:02] Speaker 2: That had to be quite an experience to go through, especially at that time, the morning, that time with the origin, you know, just with who it was, too, just such a unique experience.

[16:12] Speaker 3: But she was so warm and loving and the way and and she was a ballet dancer. I mean, I It's, I'm trying to explain a lot of the like, ballet dancers are so in tune with their bodies anyway. So it didn't really shock me for her to be, like, I need you to feel this from like your root chakra, like, that's something I'm used to. It's, it's not faked or like it's, you really have to be in it, in the sense of, like, theater, there's no film. There's, like, no magic of film happening here. And it was also just wild that this, like, how old was she there? She must have been, like, 89 she and like, didn't have her hip replacement yet, and she could do the solo better than, like she did the coccyx, the coccyx balance, which is, like the tail balance, where, like, the two legs are up at the end of the solo. That was so hard for me. And she was like, What's your problem? Wow, it's incredible. She is just a one, a God rest her soul. She's the most wonderful person. So

[17:29] Speaker 2: your first the Solo is very central. The second dance

[17:33] Speaker 3: is very sexual. Yeah, I would say that's more sexual. It's

[17:38] Speaker 2: basically a mating dance. Is what it reads is, and it's with, was it with Plato in your production? Yes, okay, because I also am basing almost all of my knowledge from the VHS, which is what's on YouTube. And so every time I'm like, Oh, what happened in 2016 which is the only production I've seen live. I saw it twice in 2016 but I don't you know, I'm sitting

[18:00] Speaker 3: to see me before I had to leave. Yeah, I saw,

[18:03] Speaker 2: I saw the second to last preview. Oh,

[18:06] Speaker 4: you saw the fun stuff. I saw. Yeah,

[18:09] Speaker 2: I saw the that was my story was, is I had a friend that grab tickets, who works in Broadway, who said, Let's go see it like, this is the very I just moved to New York, like, this is the show you got to see. That's very kind of traditional. Broadway. And then she got super sick and couldn't go. And so I went by myself during a matinee on a Saturday, and I had no idea what I was seeing, and was just like, mesmerized. And so yeah, that is the very first one that I saw, it about a year later. So I think you were both of them in both Oh,

[18:40] Speaker 3: wow, Mike, I kind of love that story. Yeah, it was

[18:44] Speaker 2: mad night. No one told me that I should have had, like, a lot more to drink before I got there. I was not warned of that, but, uh, but yes. Okay, so second one is definitely a mating dance. You're virtually,

[18:59] Speaker 4: yeah, it's this, because what

[19:03] Speaker 3: now I'm forgetting what it was called, and when we, like Jillian Lynn had worked with us for a while. And actually, Chris Kerr writes about this. Well, he wrote about it, and then he did it in his podcast, in his own podcast, I don't know if he listened to it. Another cat's diary. He describes how, like, Jillian, Jillian Lynn, came in and like made us get all in the the orgy clump. And it's called an orgy clump, I believe in the notes. I mean, my my facts could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure that it says orgy clump in the musical score and or the like, the books, the notes. So it's like it we're all overtaken by this, like power of the Jellicle moon, this like magic. And so, yes, it's about sex. And so, like, I'm the one that's just found myself in the solo, like, tapped into my like ineffable namesake. And then. And Plato, who was played by Daniel Gaiman, what a wonderful partnership that was. I have never trusted somebody so much, and he had, he tossed me all over that stage, and it was just trust from from day one and to have that sort of like intimate of an interaction every night, dressed as cats, seems wild. But it was also just like a very special, a special thing to have, and I felt super safe, and it was fun to get into that, like the whole, you know, like those, like first dates, where you like, want to kiss someone and you don't like, kind of like feeling that again every night is refreshing and kind of revives your soul from doing the same thing you know,

[20:53] Speaker 2: over and over again. So one of the things I've argued is that I don't think this shows for children, and the fact that in the notes, it says an orgy clump,

[21:03] Speaker 3: I mean, like, prove that.

[21:07] Speaker 2: But do you think that? Like, I mean, I guess you watched as a ninth grader. But do you think if you, you know, you want to bring a seven or eight year old to the theater to see cats, my

[21:16] Speaker 3: like, little nieces and nephews came and so I think that's

[21:20] Speaker 2: a little different, because you're in it. Like, you know, it's, it's different to go see someone they know, but like, what if they,

[21:25] Speaker 3: like, didn't even care. Like, Gabe, he was all about, I think it's Natasha Katz that did the lighting. He was all about the lighting. I mean, the lighting was super trippy. Like he queued in on, like, a totally different aspect of the show. Garrett, he's like, Oh yes, my s, I don't think he picked up on the sexual nature of

[21:47] Speaker 2: it. Okay, that's, I think it's,

[21:56] Speaker 2: I mean, the stage itself, like, that was the first thing I noticed is the stage is incredible, but I also was the third seat in and was not prepared for green eyes, and it scared the living daylights out of me as an adult. And so I just kept thinking, There's no way, like, There's no way. And then you start to see all this very sexual stuff. And then I started kind of listening, I'm like, some of these lyrics are a little aggressive. I you know, it's probably all going over the kids head, but there are kids everywhere.

[22:26] Speaker 3: I mean, the TIA sell it poems are like, kind of dark, like, grizzabella's

[22:32] Speaker 2: not in the book because it was too dark for children. Was the reason was left out the book.

[22:37] Speaker 3: Like, there's some really deep, dark themes, but I think, I think it's important for children to to, I mean, listen, if it gets them and they start to love dance, I mean, there's, there was one little boy, little boy, and it was right when I was leaving the show, and he had waited for like, an hour. I had no idea. I was just decompressing after two and a half hour show, and then finally, someone calls me down, and he was sobbing, and he did not pick up on any of like, the weird sexual, like, tensions or anything. He just was taking he's like, I have never seen anyone dance so beautifully before. Like, this kid literally went home and asked his mom to start him in dance classes. I think for that reason, take your kids to the theater and like, there would be a disclaim. Perhaps there might be like, I hear you Mike, like, maybe the disclaimer be like, there's some set, like, sensual like situations. But like, yeah, what's different than, like, what they see on TV nowadays anyway,

[23:41] Speaker 2: that's fair. I mean, that's, but that's a different argument, right? I know that's what's what's worse, no, and I agreed to bring kids to theater because, like being able to see, especially musicals, you know, you get to see kind of the singing, the dancing, and all the numbers that go with it. That was the, as I, you know, poked fun at cats, the storyline, the other half of that is that it's someone who can't dance and can't sing. It's like, oh, the this, this takes some serious skill to be able to perform this, especially when you're doing it both at the same time. You know, like some of those songs, like you see on Broadway, in general, has a lot of singing and dancing together, and it's like, cats is just like, non stop where you're really in it. So I was very impressed, but I also was a little I was a little trippy, and so I kind of walked out being like, Oh, that was like, again, impressive. But also, did I just witness? Yeah,

[24:33] Speaker 3: that seems about right. And I want to thank you so much for appreciating how much work went into that, like this, singing and the dancing combined, and then like dealing with, like the rake to metal stage, and not being on a flat surface and and just crawling around like a cat, like it, it we, I would say, like cats a lifestyle and virtually nothing

[24:56] Speaker 2: like you're in, basically a onesie. Okay.

[25:00] Speaker 3: And that's the other thing about, like, my character development during the previews. You know, there was like, this whole discussion about, like, how people were seeing, like, my undergarments through my white unitard. And I was like, because you can't wear white undergarments under a white unitard, it's just gonna come out, like, more opaque, like, it has to be skin tone. And then we, like, got into the whole discussion. Like, you have to match my skin tone, otherwise you're still gonna see the underwear and then, and then, yeah, like, as the white cat. I couldn't hide at all. Even the numbers that I wasn't dancing, I just like, showed up as this little blue thing, this little thing and lit in the corner, even was trying to hide. So like, those were the moments where I'd, like, looked at Tyler, and we would play, you know, just start messing around with each other when I was in the corner. And people would always inevitably see that, because I'd forget, like, you are a beacon of light, literally on

[25:56] Speaker 2: the stage, especially after your first number two, it's like you were the center, and then you can see you everywhere. So it's, I do want to ask about the kind of catch rumor mill and see if you can either validate, agree, disagree. So one of the rumors, which I think you might might not be totally true, because I think you sing, you sing in the show too, correct. Yeah,

[26:17] Speaker 3: I don't have, like, a solo. I originally syllabub and Victoria, or GEMA and Victoria were the same cat, and then in the original production, there wasn't a ballet dancer that could do the Victoria track and then also sing the very high pitched

[26:36] Speaker 2: so one of the rumors is that Victoria is a deaf or mute cat.

[26:47] Speaker 3: that wasn't my storyline, but how interesting.

[26:51] Speaker 2: And then the other one we talked about was that you're the landlord's cat, and it's because of the collar and the fact that your fur is like very clean and white and more indoor cat than some of the other characters.

[27:07] Speaker 3: I mean, I would say that I definitely have an owner. Am I the owner of the house that mango, Jerry and repentees are stealing things out of? That's maybe stretching it? I don't know.

[27:18] Speaker 2: There's that you can stretch a lot in this which we're gonna get to next. So family tree, plausible family tree. There's zero it's a lot of dotted lines. So one rumor is, is that your Grizabella daughter, oh, because you're the first one to welcome her back at the end, and probably just age in general, as being one of the younger kittens, and she's one of the older cats. So do you think that that has any merit?

[27:52] Speaker 3: Yeah, I think there's, there's merit to that. I didn't see it that way, and in the way I portrayed it, I thought she is like a meant, she's like a vision of what like I think Victoria and Grizabella were, they're kindred spirits, because I think Grizabella was a Victoria, like she had an owner, she had a something, and that all went by the wayside. So that's why Grizabella kind of they their arc is they're tethered together in their storylines.

[28:27] Speaker 2: Do you think Victoria followed Grizabella path down the dark path, or do you think she stayed pure more

[28:38] Speaker 3: that girl's not Victoria was an impure Jellicle Ball. That's

[28:43] Speaker 2: true, very true. She stayed, she stayed in the Jellicle Tribe. Did not leave to go, rumored to be a cat prostitute. That's what the rumors for. Isabella. She leaves.

[28:55] Speaker 3: Victoria went that route. I think Victoria is kind of like a deeper, she's a deeper, empathetic feline of that tribe. I think she initially like her reaction to Grizabella, like she's just fought like she is so finding who she is. And I think she just kind of breaks away from the groups and is like, Nah. I think I think this, I think this chick is fine. Like, let's give her a shot. Let's not be total dicks. Okay,

[29:28] Speaker 2: so it's not mom. It's a little bit of like, this could be my future. What's, what's,

[29:32] Speaker 3: yeah, I think it's like, what would I feel like if I had, I'd had, I would want them to see, I think she sees a bet like a good in Grizabella. I think she sees a potential. I think she sees that. I think she sees a softer side than a lot of the cats actually like.

[29:54] Speaker 2: So the other rumors that your monkeys traps and demeters, daughter, I. See, I would believe

[30:00] Speaker 3: that more. Okay, so that one seemed more plausible. Yeah, I would believe that more. Why does that one seem because monkey strap is totally a dad to Victoria, like totally a dad. Okay,

[30:11] Speaker 2: so that one seems that one has more merit. The other one is that there's the obvious love interest with Plato, but the other one is that you might have a love interest with Mr. Mr. Lees.

[30:23] Speaker 3: Oh, I thought the rumor was that Mr. Mustafa Lees and Tugger had a love interest.

[30:27] Speaker 2: I mean, that one's definitely the case. But there is, there is a Victoria, Mr. Mrs. Rumor as well. And it's either, you know, potential, you know, either lovers or brother sister. I think it's because in the VHS production, you see them together a lot during different dances, and you see them kind of interacting a lot during dances.

[30:52] Speaker 3: I don't know, I don't know if, like, I wouldn't say it was a romantic attraction. I'm gonna, I'm gonna say, like, to romantic attraction. I think it's more of like, maybe she's, maybe she's like the budding I

[31:11] Speaker 3: she's like the budding wingman for her gay friend. Must stop lace

[31:21] Speaker 2: that that makes sense. That fits. That fits your storyline a lot. Okay, so a couple other character questions. If you were not Victoria, who's which cat would you want to play?

[31:33] Speaker 3: Bombay on the arena? Ooh, another,

[31:37] Speaker 2: another very great dance number and song.

[31:41] Speaker 3: I mean, Christine Cornish mislaid it. I would watch her her and just do her number. I'd be like, I wish I could sing like that and also dance like I just I was so humbled by the whole process of being in that company. It was really one of the scariest things I've done, but also one of the most gratifying things I've ever done. So,

[32:09] Speaker 2: yeah, she that's honestly, as I've watched the show that's become my favorite song. Yeah, it's the one that gets stuck in my head most often. Now, great. It's just, I just think it's great. Who would you want to quarantine with? Which cat would you want to

[32:28] Speaker 3: mean, like, plus we could dress up together. We both, like, glittery outfits. Like, I have a rhinestone collar, he has a rhinestone jacket. Like, I think we get along great.

[32:39] Speaker 2: I do want to ask my the main question, which is, I've argued at length that Grizabella was not the right character to die at the end of the musical. So I actually rated Victoria's incomplete when I did my episode, because I did not think that your character was even really up for for it, and just did, wouldn't have like, I think that you eventually will win, like your character in however many years is going to win the Jellicle competition and die to ascend to that aside later. But not, not this one, so, but I don't think it was about So do you agree? And if you want to defend Grizabella, why? And if not, who do you think should have died?

[33:25] Speaker 3: I have been pondering this, and I do think Isabella is the right choice. Okay,

[33:31] Speaker 2: let's hear that. Let's hear the rationale.

[33:36] Speaker 3: So you have, you have this, this whole idea, and I tried to, like, when I met, when I was explaining, like, why people should come to cats and why it's, like a great it's, it's, yes, we're cats, but yes, these are all feelings and personalities that humans have. So in looking at it in that frame now, like, minus the her. What do we normally do to our women once they become old and no longer beautiful? We sort of discard them as a society. And so what pained me, What pains me, What pains me on a lot of different levels and in a lot of like, my research and backstory for Victoria. It's just like, you know, I have chosen for my profession to be a ballerina, and that's a young person's game. Like I am 35 I'm no longer 1920 like that. So I physically feel just sort of like, the decay. I just feel the body wane a little bit more viscerally than then. Then maybe a normal person would that I don't want to, like, speak for someone who doesn't dance, I'm sure, like. We all feel aches and pains that our age. But so that was something. And like, I will have to give up this career that I love, that I've dedicated my life to, and so like and how Grizabella is, her whole plot is that she didn't do anything wrong, she didn't kill anyone. She's not like a Macavity. She she was a sex worker, and we don't know the circumstances of why she had to do this, but she managed to survive through that. And generally speaking, like there's a lot of abuse, like we emotionally abuse her, and like some of the cats actually swipe at her in the show. So, like, there's abuse to this female cat, and then she she, she builds up all of this like emotion, and she's lamenting the choices that she's made. And she like, sings this guttural, like heartbreaking song of like memory, of like a youth and a youth lost, a beauty lost, and she feels worthless. And that's why every single night I would be sobbing in tears, because it's just this idea that, like, wow, and if, and it happens in real life too, like we, like, Look at, look at any woman in Hollywood over the age of 40. Like it's, so it's, I do think she was the right cat to to be picked and to ascend and to be given a chance to maybe relive and we all, we all make mistakes, but I don't feel like her mistakes were like being a pedophile. You know? I yeah,

[36:39] Speaker 2: I can so your framing is just very different, like with the way you framed it, I agree with you. I framed it totally different. Well,

[36:53] Speaker 2: so I've explained this a couple times on on this podcast. So I'm sorry for everyone. When I went to go see it, I was almost part of it. Was like, hey, Leona Lewis is going to be Grizabella, which that meant nothing to me. Grizabella. I was like, okay, Leona Lewis is gonna sing the one song I knew going into the show. She was on The X Factor. Then I saw all Deuteronomy sitting on stage, and it felt like a judge, and I just immediately framed it as a singing competition, yeah, okay. And so that was my like, and that was why the frame of reference came is because I was like, oh, yeah, this is like, and I watched those shows. I enjoy those shows. And so, I mean, it was like, Oh, they're, they're just competing, and it's a show, and it's like, instead of America voting, it's going to be all Deuteronomy. And I've got the person who is, who's won, or, you know, was successful on one of those shows. But I was like, that was just, I mean, memory is an incredible song, and belted out like, so well. But I was like, the one I was most entertained by, and then you start arguing, like, magic does really well, and America's Got Talent, like, there's a lot of different things. So I framed it totally that way, which is why I'm, you know, everyone who's come on and given very thoughtful and real explanations, like, Yeah, I mean, that's, that's nice and all, but like, it's not, America's Got Talent. I just take a very kind of humorous, fun poke at it. And that's the way I've made all of my arguments,

[38:14] Speaker 3: yeah. I mean, like, I can see it to be like, is it the most? Is she the more flashy character in that? So if you are viewing it in that sort of competitive, like, just for sheer, like, razzle dazzle, of like, the theater, yeah, then No, she wouldn't. But in terms of, like, what's that? And that's what's great about musical theaters that you have, like these numbers that can kind of, like, these musical numbers help bring the plot along. And we all know that the plot of cats is loose, and that's what I love hearing about. Everyone's different. Like, like, it can be whatever the hell you want it to be. I just happen to like, you know, like, Victoria, like, I don't get to have like a fun I don't get to be like an asshole cat, like Tugger, like, so, like, I had to frame it like in my work, in a way that made her seem very honest and very just, just real. And what is this connection, like, what would actually would make her, she doesn't know this cat and like, she's not my mom. I didn't think she was my mom, yeah? Like, what would make me feel so compelled to comfort her?

[39:34] Speaker 2: So, no, not the competition thing, because otherwise you would be, you were in it, you know, you had, you had your dance number? Yeah, yeah, she had a chance in

[39:45] Speaker 3: my friend, well, thanks. Thanks for thinking I had a chance. I didn't even think I had a chance.

[39:50] Speaker 2: Yeah? I mean, I think the more you kind of really dig in your character, doesn't but the biggest, the biggest group out there is Team Gus.

[39:59] Speaker 3: Oh to Yeah. Yeah, but I also agree with like, Girl, Gus. Like, Gus, like, lived his like, nine lives. He's like, cool that

[40:11] Speaker 3: It's hard. Many of people like Victoria running around and they're like,

[40:16] Speaker 2: that's Tugger too, yeah. But tuggers was, again, a wildly entertaining performance.

[40:23] Speaker 3: Oh yeah, like that was probably one of my favorite numbers to dance. I love the the rim Tum Tugger, what Andy did with Rum Tum Tugger. And I also loved, I, how do you not love Macavity, but um, and I love the fight scene too. That was super fun. Oh, I really wish you would have seen like, when one of like, the malfunctions happened in the show. Like, there was one time when the boot didn't drop, and then, like, the stage manager, Ira, had to come over the god mic and be like, he didn't even say Victoria. He was like, Georgina, stop. And I was just like, like, just at the start to sell, he's like, please back up to the tire. Like, full on show. And I sat down, I was like, am I cat? Am I human? And then you also missed the time where I was swung out of the show and the Tugger picture, like, I think that's a super fun thing about our show, the actual picture that they took, yeah, I broke ranks and stripped down in the audience to a leotard and tights and point shoes, which the poor person sitting next to me was probably like, what was this chick doing? And I remember, like, Tyler Haines knew, but no one else in the cast knew. And I totally punked the whole cast, and they were all gagging like they could, like the booth singer said, I feel like they had to pick up, because most of the people on stage were dying laughing because, like, there's also this, like ballerina comes traipsing down the aisles, like Tyler.

[42:02] Speaker 2: I your production, I have, I've talked to a good amount of your cast, and it's everyone's been so fun and has had like, seems like it was a blast to do. So it was, and I feel like you see that on stage, like you could see the the relationships and the friendships and everything, too, when you see it. It didn't, not make me any less confused, but at least, you know, you at least get to kind of feel that

[42:26] Speaker 3: Well, I mean, that's testament, that's testament to the casting process and to everything casting and and Andy and angelian Lynn and and the creative team that was there like they, they put great, I think because they knew how hard it was going to be and how intense the effort was needed, that they needed everyone to at least the first, you know, the opening Broadway cast to, like, really gel and really, I mean, Has anyone talked to you about how we all lined up and found, like, where we were in our alpha beta, like, Alpha Omega, that was One of the first things Trevor Nunn did, or the first things that I remember, he was like, Okay, everyone line up. And just like, naturally, like, more Alpha people in life will go towards the front of the line, and so, like, that's how we all and he's like, do you see that? I mean, like, Huh? And like, normally I would put Victoria, like, at the back of the line, but because I'm me, I was more like, not the front front, but like towards the front. So then it was like, that's also something that, like infused Oliver. It was just wild. Like, we don't get to do stuff like that in the ballet world. And it just, I've taken all this information and applied it to the things that I do now there but would

[43:44] Speaker 2: you do another Broadway show? What would be their top choice if you could do any show, ever,

[43:51] Speaker 3: any show ever I want to I think, I think I am such

[43:55] Speaker 4: a specific specialty that

[43:59] Speaker 3: I think a role I would have to create, a role I would i i

[44:05] Speaker 3: comfortable, because I I'm not, I'm not a straight theater person. And, you know, I feel like I'm not singing. Isn't where I live. Like you hear Sarah Jean Ford saying and you're just like, this is your gift. This is your gift. And as as you hear Q saying, My gift is something different, but that, but I also feel like I have this wonderful I like storytelling through speech, like I like acting in that sense. So I think a blending of those things is something that I'm really looking forward to creating as like my career goes on like, I think that's where the catalyst of my max potential to to create something special.

[44:59] Speaker 2: So. Well, tell us, how can we find you on social media? Because that's the important question,

[45:03] Speaker 3: okay, well, you can be at Georgina, underscore pascogan on the Insta, on the tweet, on the tweets, it's G pas cogen and I am the rogue ballerina. So you can also just use that hashtag, and yeah, I'm around Awesome.

[45:24] Speaker 2: Well, thank you so much for being on this podcast today and answering all of my ridiculous questions. They're not really ridiculous, and telling your thoughtful, serious answer for and defense of grizzabella. I love hearing all the you know, the people who have actually really dug in beyond my ridiculous version. I

[45:47] Speaker 3: mean, everything is valid in this crazy world

[45:57] Speaker 2: So thank you for listening to this bonus episode with Georgina and pas COVID On the wrong cat died. The podcast breakdown, the catastrophe. To follow along. You can subscribe on Apple podcasts, Spotify, Stitcher, or anywhere else you listen to podcasts. Follow us on Twitter or Instagram at the wrong cat diet, or check us out on our website, the roncatdied.com you.