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[0:13] Speaker 1: There's a cat over here. There's a cat over there. I'm the wrong one died. I'm the wrong one died.

[0:29] Speaker 2: Welcome to the wrong cat died the podcast breakdown the cat. Stasha for you. I'm your host, Mike Abrams, and today we have a special guest. Before the shutdown, she was touring on the cats national tour as jelly Loram. So welcome Anne Marie Rosano, and thank you for joining me. Hi Mike, thanks for having me. I am very excited to talk to you. I was supposed to see the tour in Indiana in April, and we did not get to go see that, so I was would have probably saw your performance, but since that didn't happen, I think we're just have to settle for chatting about cats instead. So I want to start with what I always like to know. First is, before you went on tour, how much history did you have with the musical? Did you were you in a production? Did you sing it as a kid? Did you see it as a kid? How much did you know about cats before you decided to be on tour?

[1:19] Speaker 3: I'm so excited to answer this question for you. So I had never seen cats. The only experience I had with cats was like doing the choreography in classes. I grew up going to a dance school that prioritized preserving Original Broadway choreography, so the original Jillian Lynn was definitely a part of my upbringing in classes. But other than that, I had never seen cats. I had never done cats. I sang memory in a concert production in 2017 2016 and yeah, and I and we. It was the kind of concert where, like, you get up and talk about your about your experience with the music before you sing. And so I told the story that I had never done cats. I had never seen cats, but that when I was a baby, like an actual toddler, there was the old cats commercial where it would go cats dramatically, and then, like, you'd see the tire, and then it would go cats dramatically, and you'd see the dancers and all this stuff. And apparently, according to my parents, every time they said cats, I would say dogs. So it's like I knew as a baby that somehow, someday this would happen. But no, I had never seen any production of Cats until after I learned Act One. How

[2:46] Speaker 2: old were you when you were doing the dance routines? Oh,

[2:50] Speaker 3: um, I don't I never did anything like in a show or a recital, per se. It's just like that was just part of class. So yeah, I started going to that school. I started going to that school when I was seven. But I can't tell you the first time I would have done

[3:05] Speaker 2: the reason I asked is because macavities dance number and a couple of the dance numbers are a little aggressive. Well, for for a child to be doing

[3:15] Speaker 3: we would, we would have done anything from the opening or from the ball and and the Macavity dance sequence that you would have seen in my production is mostly Andy's stuff. So none of that existed yet when I was a child.

[3:30] Speaker 2: So my knowledge is all from 2016 revival, because I

[3:34] Speaker 3: saw me too. I've still never seen any original production

[3:38] Speaker 2: of Have you seen the 1998 movie? No, I have not. So it's all on YouTube. Like, from, from the cats, like, official page. Like, that's what is there to watch. So my knowledge is either that production or that, whatever memory I have of the 2016 productions I saw twice, and that's it. I have no other frame of reference for this entire musical. So it's, I'm kind of with you there, but now I kind of look back, and I'm always like, Wait, was was it like the 2000 or 2016 or 1998 like, did they really do a crotch thrust in the cat's face? Like, is that? Is that what you're gonna learn in your school? And

[4:18] Speaker 3: we would have learned, I mean, the opening and the ball are, like the parts that are really iconic. Okay, so

[4:25] Speaker 2: you had never seen it, never really did anything. And then you, you get become Joey alarm. What was told to you? Like, how did you prepare for that, for the role? If you, I mean, if you really had zero context?

[4:36] Speaker 3: Um, well, I didn't have 00, context, because I get that's not really fair to say, because I've auditioned for it so many times for various productions, yeah, and I actually had just auditioned last summer. I auditioned for the production that's out on Norwegian Cruise Line. No, not Norwegian. I'm sorry, Royal Caribbean cruise line for. Jelly. So I had just, like, prepared dust and all that stuff. And, I mean, I got caught so, so I was like, ready for that, because I had kind of just done it. But they give you your three words for every character has three words that describes them. So jellies are practical, cheerful and busy, which is exactly me, and they tell you they like, give you some sort of explanation, like she's the motherly cat. She's the one who takes care of everyone. And my cast was particularly young, so that was a very easy role for me to fill, anyway, and and then the rest of the character type stuff to me, and I'm sure we'll talk about it at some point, but the relationships between the characters, since there's no script to speak of, we, you know, most of it is made up, and what we base it off of, mostly was our staging. Like, who is like? Who are you near? Who do you dance with? Who do you like? Which kittens do I protect? And how do I do that helped me determine, like, which ones were mine,

[6:21] Speaker 2: and I, as I've read through the like rumor mill and tried to make my own, it seems like most of that is, is the right way people are analyzing this, like they're dancing together a lot, so they are clearly together, or brother and sister, or whatever that is, there are. But there are such different variations of this that there's always, like, 10 different that could be the father, that could be the mother, because of that. So if you were in your production, walk me through what that, what that, like, lineage is for you. Like, who are you protecting? Who are you dating? Who are you? Who are your parents? Like, what does that look like? Because I have some guesses.

[6:59] Speaker 3: Yeah. Well, yeah, ultimately, like, it doesn't matter for the audience what we decide, as long as we've decided something like, it has to be meaningful to us for it to communicate meaning to the audience. But since it's not in the script, it doesn't matter who's who. But for me, I am, I spend a lot of time with Jennie Annie dots, so we are clearly, at least friends, but it's also pretty clearly established, established that she and skimble are married, so and I have I do the invitation with skimble, and so we kind of decided that skimbles My brother, and it's also kind of based on who looks like, who like, who's markings on your unitard is similar in color. So like me and skimble are both tabby cats. So we decided that we're brother and sister. Jenny's my sister in law, and I think that tumble tumble, Brutus play, doh and pounceable are my actual kittens, and we've decided that rumple teaser was the daughter of Jenny and skimble, so she's my niece. Yeah, I protect. I protect. Tumble and pounce a lot. Tumble in my production was a little bit more of a scaredy cat, and pouncival was a little bit more of a daredevil. And so to me, tumble was my youngest.

[8:31] Speaker 2: Okay, what about with Grizabella? What do you think the relationship is there for

[8:36] Speaker 3: me? Grizabella was also was someone who, like I looked up to her growing up. I think that we were very much of the same generation, and she's someone that I kind of like idolized, and she and I felt really betrayed when she left. And I also think that she abandoned her kittens, whoever they are, she abandoned them, and I and as the motherly cat, I think that's the worst thing you could possibly do. So that kind of fueled my anger and resentment for her.

[9:18] Speaker 3: He's, well, I have a personal Gus kind of in my life. I have someone in my life that it was very easy for me to kind of put that into context. Bert Michaels is an old Broadway dancer, actor, movie musicals of Old West Side Story Gypsy, like all of those old like 50s through 70s, classic Broadway shows. And he was my mentor for a long time. And so to me, Gus is Bert. So it just helped me think of him in a really endearing way.

[9:58] Speaker 2: So it's a mentor. Or father figure, but maybe not a father. Yeah, yeah. Okay, my last one that I do want to see if we can tie a couple more together. What about busta for

[10:08] Speaker 3: Jones? Oh, he is the sexiest of all the sexy to me. And so Tim goulon was my bus Gus, and he decided that busta fur wasn't actually part of our tribe in the way that everyone else is. He thinks that he like goes around to these restaurants and goes around to other tribes or whatever, and that he's kind of more of a stray in that way that so to me, Buster fur is someone that jelly has a casual relationship with every time he comes to visit.

[10:46] Speaker 2: So that's interesting, because that's my my biggest like tying together with your character theory is, is that you and Grizabella were best friends growing up, and you were with Buster whenever he came to town, but Grizabella cheated on, like your friendship by sleeping with buster.

[11:09] Speaker 3: That was not part of my story, but that works. And

[11:12] Speaker 2: then this comes all back together, because then you're like, your way of or no, sorry I have in the reverse, you cheated with the Buster and grizzabel were together, and then your way of forgiving is to give up your opportunity to sing for your chance to be so you instead give your time to Gus and give him the opportunity to try to be selected for the Heaviside Layer. So you're giving it up as your way of apologizing.

[11:37] Speaker 3: That works. That had never entered my mind,

[11:41] Speaker 2: that's what happens when you record 20 plus episodes about cats, and you've read every fan site possible to try to figure out this, this plot, this loose plot, that is what you come up with. No to me,

[11:53] Speaker 3: Jelly doesn't want to be chosen because she feels a sense of responsibility to to the kittens in the tribe. It's like, I feel like I'm too important and I have to take care of things, and I'm just like, not done. But I very much think that Gus should be chosen and so, and she hates jelly, hates attention, so the fact that she even sings this, it's the way that they set it up in the beginning. And I don't know if anyone's gone over this on the on the show yet, but I was told that I'm sitting Gus down because I want him to tell his story. And then he decides he doesn't want to, he doesn't want to talk. And so he looks at me the moment before I sing, he looks at me and says, like, please, like you do it for me. I just can't I can't speak. Wow.

[12:43] Speaker 2: No, I've not thought about that. It makes sense, and it kind of lines up also with why he's not selected, because he doesn't give his own performance, but he

[12:56] Speaker 2: I don't know that's interesting. I think it's interesting too, that you say because Eloise crap, who played Jenny handy dot said the same thing that she didn't think she could go because she was a motherly figure. So I would challenge that a little bit now, because I've thought about that since Eloise said it, do you think that there's some merit to you being able to be reborn and come back and be able to help those kittens even further? Well, in this next life?

[13:21] Speaker 3: Well, no, because then I'd be a kitten and they'd be older than me.

[13:27] Speaker 2: I mean, I could help them, but you would have so much wisdom having been reborn. I

[13:32] Speaker 3: don't know, because I don't know if you keep, I don't know how much of your memories you keep, and I think that's part of it, like Tim thought that that as Gus, he didn't want to be chosen because he didn't want to lose his memories.

[13:48] Speaker 2: Yeah, and that was Christopher ger said the same thing, who played Gus as well, that they just didn't think they could be selected. Yeah, there wasn't another life they didn't want to go. I think they're just justifying because the end is already written for them and they can't change it. Yeah? Oh yeah. I definitely think that that there's a very big team Gus out there for a reason. Okay, let's, let's go on to more about just in general. What was the tour like? Like, what was it like going to every city, kind of bringing this, like, it's such a unique show. And I feel like a lot of times you're going to be in a production, people are not going to know what they're walking into, like, like I did, and you're getting to do this across the country. So what was that experience like, Did you could you kind of see it on people's faces of they either like, Oh, I know this is cat, or was like, What in the world am I watching?

[14:43] Speaker 3: Um, we had a lot of fans. Like, especially the people that we can see, you know, like, we'll, I'll only be able to actually see the people who are sitting in front or the people who have who come to the stage door. So for the most part, those are cats fans. Those really aren't people who have never seen the show before. Uh, so that was cool to see, to to be a part of something that's such a phenomenon that the name precedes you, you know, like we come out of the stage door, they don't know who we are because we look so different. And so you're like, do they want me to sign my their play bill? Do they not want me to sign their play bill? And it's so bizarre, because you have to be like, because I want to be open to it if they want it, but I don't want to be like, presumptuous, like, who am I, you know. And so sometimes they'd ask, or they'd look at you like, they try to, like, look at you and to see, like, who you are. And then I'd have to, like, toddle them like, I play jelly, I sing the song about Gus. And then they'd be like, oh, you know. And then you know that that like they're they're not your fan, they're a fan of what you do, because the show is so iconic, and it's like, they either love that part or they don't care.

[15:53] Speaker 2: Yes, that's totally fair. Do they? A lot of people come dressed up at the stage door. Some

[15:56] Speaker 3: people come dressed up, yeah, yeah. We definitely had some people, especially in the cities where we had a longer sit down and they'd come back, come

[16:10] Speaker 3: I debuted in Toronto, and we were there for six weeks. So that was an interesting experience for me, because I starred like I I was in rehearsal, and we went to a few different cities, but, but to be in Toronto for that long right at the beginning of my contract was it felt more like being on Broadway than being on tour, kind of, especially because we were at the Princess of Wales, and that's the Biggest, fanciest theater in Canada. So it was exciting to be there and to start there, but there were definitely people who came back over and over and over again.

[16:49] Speaker 2: So I'm going to ask you a question that might get you in a little bit of trouble. Uh, oh, but what was your favorite tour stop city? And then instead of saying least favorite, I'm going to say what was the most surprising city that, like pleasantly surprised you, because I think saying Lee's favorite can be that's, that's too subjective.

[17:06] Speaker 3: Yeah, my favorite. I it was really special for me to debut in Toronto because I did Disney Cruise Line at the very, very beginning of my career. So we rehearsed in Toronto, and I saw a show at the Princess of Wales. So it very much felt like coming full circle to me. And I also loved being in Pittsburgh, because I know a bunch of people there. I did some theater in Pittsburgh, and I have some theater friends there, and it was great to for them to be able to come to the show and to be at the Ben Adam Center, which is, like this big, exciting place. So I would say those were kind of my favorite cities, surprising, hmm. I mean, I want to say that, oh gosh, where were we? Chattanooga kind of surprised me in a positive way. It was. It was really cute, like where we were, where the city was, was really cute. Downtown Richmond was also really cute. In a way I didn't expect. I didn't just didn't know no because I never been there, but we had, we had a Triple Split week where we went to some place in Georgia, someplace in the Florida Panhandle, and someplace in Mississippi, all in one week. And the stages were a little like the stage in Florida was a little bit too small, like the edges of our deck didn't fit. And the city in Mississippi, they had just had a flood, and the water wasn't safe to drink. So let's put that out there. That Flint is not the only place with the water crisis in this country that was

[18:54] Speaker 2: all in like one week. So travel trying to figure out a new stage, new everything. Wow, that's

[19:05] Speaker 2: Okay. Now, when the when you were on tour, the movie was coming out, the new movie, so there was clearly some buzz too, just around both in general, I'm sure, like, it definitely highlighted your tour as well. Did you see the movie? Like, as a group, as a cast, like, what was your experience with the new movie?

[19:23] Speaker 3: Yes, those of us who were around, we went together on Christmas Day, and so that was fun to like go as a group. I wouldn't have wanted to just go on my own, you know. So we went as a cast. We went on Christmas Day, and it was fun. It was it was fun to see it together.

[19:46] Speaker 2: Any other hot takes on the movie? That's your like you want to say something?

[19:49] Speaker 3: I'm waiting for more specific questions, but yeah, I mean they, they did their own thing, and to. Me, cats is a dance show, so it was unfortunate to me the way that it was edited, because you didn't get to see the dancing that was there. You know, it was clear that, like that, like Andy, had given his contributions to the film, and that there were excellent dancers in that show, in that movie, and we just couldn't really see it, and then just in terms of camera angles, and then they also did something weird to their feet, so we couldn't really see the full beauty of the ballet, which was unfortunate, but it was fun, and it was different. And I liked um skimbles number because that they added tap dancing to that, because I would have missed the tap if it was gone, because they didn't do it for Jenny's number, clearly, because rebel Wilson's not a tap dancer. Um, but, but I liked it in skimple. I thought it really fit the train, yeah,

[21:01] Speaker 2: I mean, the the dance editing was an interesting it was hard to watch at times. And that was, I think, the most consistent criticism I've seen, beyond, like, the other some weirdness in some parts. But that, I think, like, you can kind of get over, because cats, in general, has some just weirdness all around. The other part that I just, I think someone said that it was cheating, that they had added dialog, is that they kind of wrote a story to it, and had Victoria be the, you know, being kind of like the narrator of sorts, and then also making the cavity way more of an antagonist to have, like a villain. And it just missed some of that miss for me, because I wasn't really sure where they were going. Whereas, like, I love Macavity song, and that whole part was supposed to be the like, Taylor Swift coming in and all this, and I was just waiting to it just didn't hit as much, even though I like again, love the performance of the song. So those were and then there were some stuff, like what they did with Mr. Mustafa Lee still bothers me. I

[22:02] Speaker 3: I don't mind the exposition that much, because I think that they were trying to explain something that doesn't make sense to a wider audience, especially they were, they were probably doing that a lot for the people who are not fans of the musical, who don't know the musical, and they needed to give them, like, something to hold on to, especially in the beginning where he's like, now we're going to go through the cats, and they're all going to tell their story, so that you at least, like, have some idea, like, okay, everyone's gonna talk about themselves. Cool. Yeah,

[22:36] Speaker 2: they went for mass production, like, for this to be $100 million movie, when I really think it's lane, was probably just make the best version of cast for the super fans, and just at a smaller production level and own it. They didn't do it would it would have had a different cast. It would have had, you know, very different production. But I feel like that would have, that would have been the better choice, the better angelical choice. Okay, let's do some rapid fire. If you did not play Joey Alan, who would you want to play? What other cat would you want to play?

[23:11] Speaker 3: I think it would be really fun to play bomb ballerina, because she's so sexy and fun and like, that's so not me. So it would just be cool to, like, step out of the box in that way.

[23:23] Speaker 2: And what other song besides, I know you sing guesses, but like, What song would you love to sing if you, you know, got another chance to sing one?

[23:30] Speaker 3: Um, I really like Jenny's piece in the beginning. It's just like, so like, tap dance and show show girl and Broadway. And I know that, like, you're not a huge fan of it because the cockroaches, but, but that doesn't bother me. And I just, I think it's fun. Like, she rides the broom and she jumps over the thing and she has sparkles, and it's just so showy. I

[23:53] Speaker 2: enjoy that song. I just the whole cockroach rat tap dance, like it's just, like, it's such a bizarre thing. And when you, like, really try to break down what's happening in this show that one's really hard to explain, like, that one's just kind of all over the board in terms of, like, it's, it's a it is very Broadway. It's very early in the show. But then I'm like, wait, she's teaching cockroaches how to, like, knit, yeah. Like, that's what the

[24:18] Speaker 3: like, think of it the lyrics, she's a house cat, then she which is confusing, because she doesn't wear a collar, but if she's a house cat, and she sleeps all day and she's up at night, like, think about what happens at night. Like, the mice come out, the cockroaches come out, and she's and, like, think about, like, your own house cat, your house cat hunts mice and cockroaches, right? And, like, keeps them at bay. So you don't have those things if you have a cat, because she's teaching them. She's like, Oh, I don't have to kill them. I can just like, they just need jobs, so I'm going to give them jobs, and then they're going to behave themselves.

[24:53] Speaker 2: But does not does a six foot tap dancing cockroach not give you nightmares. I. Like, I understand that, like, I understand the concept, I understand, like, the the vision of it. But at the same time I'm watching this, going like, there's a there's 15 cockroaches, tap dancing, like, especially as someone who's living in, you know, living in New York, that's like, my nightmare. It is absolutely legitimately my nightmare. Okay, um, favorite cat and least favorite cat, not actor, character, okay,

[25:22] Speaker 3: Am I answering as jelly or as me, like as if, as you, okay, so, like, as a fan, as a fan, although

[25:28] Speaker 2: I would be curious to hear if that changed, like, what your jelly answer is, too. Absolutely,

[25:33] Speaker 3: it would change, yeah, um, let me think, as a fan, my favorite cat would be, I really like Plato Macavity as a fan, like, I think that that track is really cool. I think he, he gets to do like, very like, manly athletic dancing. And the the Macavity fight from our production is just like really edgy and gritty, and I enjoy that.

[26:07] Speaker 2: It is my favorite song still now. Oh the song, yeah, yeah,

[26:11] Speaker 3: no, me. I think me too. I enjoy that. That song a lot. My least favorite cat as a fan, I I'm afraid to answer, but I think it's like pounceable or syllable I hate, I hate saying that, but it is like pounceville doesn't have that much of a feature. He works really hard, like that, that dancer works hard in the show, but he doesn't have a big feature. So I guess it like I just kind of don't care. So

[26:51] Speaker 2: that's how I feel about that's why my answer is, Peter, oh, I don't

[26:55] Speaker 3: like count that as a count him as a character, because to me, that should, yeah, he's in. He is, but to me, that's not, he doesn't exist.

[27:05] Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, he virtually doesn't. It is the bus Gus, yeah?

[27:09] Speaker 3: And since it's that person's face that I'm looking at, it's, I just can't, you

[27:14] Speaker 2: can't dislike him. Okay, what is Joey's answer to this question? I actually, I think the the I'm more curious on the least favorite, because I think the favorite there's, it's hard to answer with three kittens and Gus and yeah,

[27:25] Speaker 3: she loves so many of them. So she wouldn't choose a favorite, but her, she does. She's not a fan of Rome Tum Tugger.

[27:34] Speaker 3: just thinks that he's self obsessed and like, you're like, Dude, stop talking like you're not making a case for yourself. You're just interrupting us because you want attention. And like, Could you sit down and like, let us get on with it

[27:47] Speaker 2: sounds a little jealous. It sounds like, sounds like you like every other kitten, although jelly on a kitten, I guess, but every other female cat, I assume, and male cat, I assume, all like Tugger. Well,

[28:02] Speaker 3: she just knows, like, she knows he's a bad boy, so she, like, is looking out for everyone else getting hurt. Like, really, there's that moment when, like, Cassandra goes up to Tugger to, like, try to seduce him, and bomb just throws her out of the way. And Cassandra looks at me like, look what she did. And I, and I look at her, like, What were you expecting going after a guy like that?

[28:25] Speaker 2: See, this is the part like, this is why the story needs actual context. Because, like, that's stuff that that I like. When I walked out the very first time I saw it, I picked up none of this. Oh no, I picked up zero of this. All I walked out was just totally shell shocked, and I was singing Mungo Jerry and rebel teaser, and that was it. And, like, I still didn't know what happened at the end. I was still trying to, like, process it, and I missed all of the nuances of everything because I started the show being scared out of my mind, thankfully not on the aisle as the lights go off, and then all of a sudden there's a cat in your face with like green eyes flashing like that is a a at a matinee show, just like a very haunting way to start when you're not expecting it. And then ended with, you know, the one song I knew going in, and then this, like weird yelling at me about a cat and a dog type of thing. And I was like, again, shell shocked. I walked out. I just, I didn't know. I had no idea what happened. I was just trying to, like, tell and ask anybody who'd seen it, being like, what did I just see? Please. Someone tell me what? Explain this to me. Because I just I couldn't. I still couldn't. And I saw it again a year later, and I was, I mean, the only thing I knew a little bit more is like, Oh, I know a couple of these songs now I like this one better. It wasn't until I started reading the, like, fan wiki page and all kinds of information, I'm like, oh, there's some depth to this. Like, there's a lot more to this, and than I would have ever thought when you just watch it.

[29:55] Speaker 3: There only is that kind of depth, because, like, we need it to be there. Uh, you know, like, we can't just get up and do this musical with no context. Otherwise, it's not a musical, you know. Like, I didn't notice those things until weeks into, like, I spent two weeks learning the show, and then, like, two weeks watching and tracking. And I was looking like, after the first week of watching and tracking to be like, Okay, now I know, like, where I stand and where I go and like all that stuff. It wasn't until, like, week four that I was finally able to be like, Oh, what is she doing here? Why is she in that position? Why is she Why is she interacting with this cat? What's she doing? Who's she looking at? Because I was a replacement so

[30:44] Speaker 2: and so, that's why I find so interesting. Because I personally, I like love sitcoms. I like things that have very clear, simplified, like story lines, like, I kind of know what's coming or, like, basically every TV show made on USA is cut the same way, like psych white collar, like all of those suits, every single one of them are cut identically. There's a miniature story arc through the whole season, and then the rest is just like event, commercial break event, commercial break event, commercial break the resolution to that conflict for the episode and so forth, which is what I'm like used to from any type of TV movie stuff I go to see. And so I always, even in musicals, I kind of like, I'm looking for the like, okay, great. We're gonna hit intermission with this big, like, Apex, and then we're gonna get to the conclusion. We're gonna have, like, some nice, buttoned up ending. And cast was the one that broke that. And I've always wondered, as I've and I get, like, it's not meant for that. So it's like, again, it wasn't, it's not written for me. It's not written for my my type of like, oh, I want this, like, nicely crafted story. But what I've always wondered is how much of this stuff that you're saying, like we had to come up with was thought through, or was just like a necessity that the actors early on or in different productions have had to come up with versus, like, in drill, a Webber and like, whoever, everyone else involved in that initial couple Productions is like, they're together. That's this like, because there isn't a story, like, there is no writing to it. So I've always wondered, like, how much of that came from the need from the actors versus, this was intentionally kind of set out that way.

[32:24] Speaker 3: That's a great question. The only relationship that I was told is like, this is what it is, is basically Demeter mccaviddy That that he, like, basically abducted her years ago, or however long ago, and that they had an abusive relationship, like she was basically kidnapped and like held against her will, and that And that Grizabella left the tribe to be with Macavity in a consensual way. And so to us, that's why we're mad at her. That's that's where that comes from, is that like she's with this horrible, evil villain type person, person cat who has hurt someone in our tribe. So that's the only part that was like, told to me, like, these are these people's relationship. This is who they are, and really, really everything else is some of the things are like our canon, in the sense that everyone kind of agrees on certain things that, like will Deuteronomy is like, mostly everyone's dad, you know, like those kinds of things everyone really basically agrees on. Like monk and Tugger are brothers. Almost no one is going to say that they disagree with that. But, you know, skimble and jelly being brother and sister, like, I don't know how many other skimbles and jellies decided that. I don't know to me that was that was clear because of where we were standing, really,

[34:12] Speaker 2: that's just again, kind of so fascinating to me, because the show that has such a like allure to it, and it's been around for so long, has such little context that's given to each different production, each different thing. And there's like, there's characters that are in certain parts, that aren't in certain parts, and it's just like, there's just not that, and so many other things, like, you go see most other Broadway musicals, it's like, you're gonna get the even a revival. Like, I guess I should, I guess I shouldn't say that, because I the Oklahoma revival and a couple of these other ones were fairly different. But usually it's like, look, that's the story. We know what the story is. They might do some different things with dance numbers or staging and with cats. I don't feel like as I've like even read, there's a production in, like, somewhere in Southeast Asia, that has an entire. Hire a different character do a dance number that just does not exist in the US. And it's like, I don't know what other shows do that? Nope. All right, I have two more rapid fire questions for you that are that are very different for the time. So one is, is, which cat would you want to be quarantined with?

[35:20] Speaker 3: Um, wait, I think I, like, had a thought of who I'd want to be quarantined with. Oh yeah, I'm with you, misto police. Hands down. I think that's the only answer, because of the magic thing, but also because, in my production, if I'm thinking from jelly perspective, my interactions with misto police are always like, he's trying to impress me in some way. Like he's trying to, like, look, be like, Look, I'm a grown up cat. I'm I'm good, I'm magical, I'm, you know, so like, if I had someone who just wants to, like, take care of me and, like, impress me, like, you can, you can come over.

[36:03] Speaker 2: That's, I mean, I've made arguments for a couple other people, but that, to me, still seems like the no brainer answer. And then the last one is, and I might have to explain it, but there's a thing called Cats tumbler, which basically there are fans that take on the personas of the cats and write back and forth with other fans taking on other personas of cats. So it's like, not fan fiction, in a sense that they're writing a story, but they're interacting together. And it's like, I play this cat in this situation, and it's not like scenes from the show. It's just like real life. So if you got to, if you were going to take over a cat tumbler and just write as that character in real life scenarios, which cat would you want to write for? I

[36:48] Speaker 3: mean, I'd want, I know the most about jelly. Like, let's take her. Yeah, okay, okay, I don't know what this is, so I haven't, I haven't looked into it. So I I could be, like, totally answered, I'm afraid

[37:03] Speaker 2: to really look too deep into it, about it. I think it's fascinating. I think it's like a really cool fan thing that, like, this group of people does this to, like, kind of preserve the the stories of these cats, just in different scenarios outside of the, like, Jellicle world of some sort. But I think I'd say, I

[37:21] Speaker 3: think I'd say rumble teaser, because she can just, like, say and do anything, you know, you just can't go wrong.

[37:27] Speaker 2: Yep, I think that's a good choice. That's kind of why my answer has been the cavity for a while. I think, like, you can just write the villain, which would be really kind of a fun scenario, of like, you just don't care, and so you just write whatever you want. I think would be kind of fun, like, a different persona to take on because it's stuff I wouldn't be able to like, or wouldn't do or be able to do in real life. Well, that's acting very true. Okay, my last question, which is the most important question, is, do you agree or disagree with me that Grizabella was the wrong choice to die at the end of the musical? I mean,

[37:58] Speaker 3: you know, I being, I'm Team Gus, like, as a person, as jelly, just because, like that feels like the right thing to do. He's old, he's he might not make it to the next Jellicle Ball. He's earned his you know, he's done all these wonderful things. He deserves it, but without killing Grizabella, there's no story, you know, like, I Well, if you, if you kill guys, it's like this nice little nursery rhyme where this old cat who did all these wonderful things, gets to be reborn, you know? And it's like, then, then you, if you wanted to make it actually kid friendly. That would be, that would be who would die.

[38:46] Speaker 2: I do think it depends on how you interpret the musical. Because, again, like I've said many, many times that I view this as a competition, a singing competition, and in that case, the the way, like each person goes up each week on stage, and they tell their back stories, and like, America's Got Talent all those exercises like this, the sob stories usually do better, or they get more votes. So when, in that scenario, I think, like, you could argue Gus, you could argue Grizabella, and if they keep kind of going back and forth, see if my interpretation is, maybe we just change a show. And it's like, we start with a couple of them, and then we just, like, crispel and Gus, like each sing back and forth, like semi finals, finals type of thing. So I think you could, like, you could still have a story, just with depending on how you interpret the story,

[39:29] Speaker 3: totally. But about forgiveness and redemption means we have to choose Grizabella, because she's the one who needs that.

[39:40] Speaker 2: I guess, I mean, yeah, I get the argument. No, I know I'm not gonna, like, I've made it. I'm understanding. I just don't, I don't know. Just doesn't do it for me. I think there are other ways to take this chaos, because who

[39:53] Speaker 3: else would it be, besides the two of them, you know, like, like, so my

[39:59] Speaker 2: biggest. Argument was, and I know that this is there's lots of holes into this argument, but from a fan voting production value standpoint, I would do the X Factor version, and I would combine two acts, and I would send rum to Tugger and Mr. Mr. Together, because they're clearly either in some form of relationship, or some bromance, or some version of that is together, and you see the fifth harmonies and the what's one directions of the world, where they take individual acts and put them and they become superstars. That, to me, is my like, those are the two that I'm like. These are the most entertaining characters in this entire production. And if I'm voting purely off of that factor alone, if I combine them, can you imagine a number with the two of them together with, like the rock star and the men, like the magic, like that would just be phenomenal. So I think, like that is what I'm thinking, is you combine those two, we vote, America votes, the world votes. They go on, they're your winners, and they get reborn.

[41:02] Speaker 3: I mean, I have two things to say that. I've heard you say that before, and and for, for we were told that those two numbers are not actually them trying to be picked. We were told that there are two different kinds of numbers. There are numbers like Jenny, skimble, Gus that they are asking to be picked. And then there are numbers like Tugger. He Tugger is just interrupting the story because he wants attention. Mungo and rump are their number is not, they're not trying to be picked. We're all gone drinking water. You know, they're just, they're there because they, you know, did they stole from the houses, you know, and so and my staff, Elise's number, is about bringing Old Deuteronomy back, so they're not even asking to be picked as far as we're concerned, at least in my company, that's how we saw it. But it totally makes sense from the X Factor perspective. Like, yes, definitely the most entertaining, definitely the most exciting. And I know. And then the second thing I wanted to say was, Judy Dench in the movie has that, like, ridiculous leg extension. Yeah, right, like everybody laughs about that. And our Tugger in Mustafa, in the most number, there's these moments where it's like, it flashes bright light and then it gets dark, and then it flashes bright light, and then it gets dark, and you see the company in different positions, and like, jumping in midair at each of those flashes. And our Tugger was on the tire and would do different poses for that flash. And he absolutely did the leg extension, like for in different moments after, after having seen the movie, he would do the duty, like

[42:55] Speaker 2: extension. That's amazing. I wonder how many people picked up on me, because that's like, very, very, very, quietly funny and amazing. I appreciated it. I have never heard that the argument that they aren't even trying. I mean, I could, I can see that they're the the argument that they're the kittens and they're not necessarily, like, it's not their time. But there are plenty of young performances that have done well and America's Got Talent, like a, you know, a teenager one one time. So it's like, I again, I looked at this from one single lens, which I know is narrow. And so, like, I agree that there are plenty of ways to argue against my my way, but that was how I interpreted

[43:40] Speaker 3: it. I like Eloise's idea that it's a chorus line. I had never thought about it that way before, but I really like that. And then in that way, then Grizz is Cassie, I guess. Yeah,

[43:51] Speaker 2: so that was, again, there's and then somebody else has recently said that they thought it was hair. I

[43:58] Speaker 3: haven't. I didn't listen to that one. How is it hair?

[44:01] Speaker 2: So I don't know anything about hair or porcelain. Again, I don't know that much about Broadway, but they said that it's very similar in the sense that they go to each person trying to tell why they're there. They do so that as again, now I'm starting to wonder how many musicals are basically just cats and where which came first. And wait, there

[44:22] Speaker 3: was another one that someone compared it to another musical. And I think, like a light bulb went over my head, but I don't remember what it

[44:28] Speaker 2: was now. I again, I don't know enough about most musicals to be able to piece all this together. It

[44:34] Speaker 3: was Les Mis with rum rump and Mungo being the tenardiers. They totally are. That one

[44:42] Speaker 2: at least I can get, because it's, you know, Andrew Weber, no, there might be some. Not, is that not him? Oh, no, I'm thinking a fan. See, I know nothing. Like, I literally know nothing about this besides the plot, like I've analyzed the plot so deeply now. Know

[45:00] Speaker 3: probably more than anyone else ever has. I There are

[45:03] Speaker 2: some super fans. I'm starting to meet some super fans who really know their stuff. And, like, the first question I like to ask them is, like, what did I get wrong? Like, what, what did I like, what's my analysis? And it's hard, because there's really no way to say this is right or wrong, because there's no like, there is no right answer, and there's nobody until I can get like Trevor Nunn or somebody to come talk to me and answer all of my questions. I don't think we're gonna have answers, but that's the beauty of it. So how can we find you on social media? Instagram

[45:35] Speaker 3: is my platform of choice. It's just my name at Anne Marie Rosano. That's Anne Marie with an E, A and an E, amazing.

[45:41] Speaker 2: Well, thank you so much for joining me today. Any parting words? Any parting cats words?

[45:48] Speaker 3: No, it's just like I my contract was cut short, and I really mourn the loss of of all of the performances I didn't get. But cats will live on and on now then forever. So hopefully you cats will be back somewhere, someday, hopefully you get another opportunity

[46:07] Speaker 2: to to live your job well. Thank you again to Anne Marie Rosano for being a wonderful guest on the Ron cat die, the podcast breakdown of the cat catastrophe to follow along. You can subscribe on Apple podcast, Spotify, Stitcher, or anywhere else you listen to your podcast. Follow us on Twitter and Instagram at the wrong cat died, or check out our website, the wrong cat died. Calm. Thank you. This was so fun. You.