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[0:00] Speaker 1: Hi, I'm Ariana Grande. Hi, I'm Cynthia Erivo, and you're listening to the Broadway Podcast Network, visit vpm.fm to discover more.

[0:13] Speaker 2: There's a cat over here. There's a cat over there. I'm the one good night. I'm the one good night. I welcome to

[0:30] Mike Abrams: the wrong cat died. The podcast breakdown of the cat. Sasha fee, I'm your host, Mike Abrams, and today we have an amazing guest. You may have seen her on Broadway in Charlie and the Chocolate Factory or finding Netherland, or you might know her from her role as Celia on ABC News sitcom, call your mother, but she's here today because I have been told she has an incredible tie to cats the musical due to an infamous audition. So welcome Emma camares And thank you for joining

[0:57] Speaker 1: Hello. Thank you for having me now we

[1:01] Mike Abrams: will get to this audition, because one of your very good friends told me about this audition, and I want to hear it directly from you, but before we do that, I always love to hear about your just history with cats. So pre audition, like, how many times had you seen it? Had you seen it at all? Like, what was your relationship to the show? So

[1:18] Speaker 1: Okay, I gotta, I gotta come clean. I, I don't know much about cats. And, you know, I, I've seen the Broadway show. I saw the revival with Colin. You know, I saw, I saw it live. The first time I saw it was on a VHS tape from the public library, I believe, in the year 2001

[1:51] Speaker 3: I was for middle school three years after the VHS came out,

[1:55] Speaker 1: yes, three years after the VHS came out, I knew that I rented it from the public library because I went to an art school and I had to do like, a, I think it was a report or something with dance history. And I was like, Okay, I'll watch the musical Cats. And I watched it on VHS, and I was thoroughly confused and amused and entertained. And I was like, what is I have no idea what's happening, but I want to do that. That looks like a lot of fun. So what grade was that? That was like, sixth or seventh grade.

[2:29] Mike Abrams: So junior high, ish, junior high. Okay, so that's not, like, super young. I have a very big thing. I don't like that, that a lot of kids go see the show. I think it's too dark and scary for children, yeah, but the VHS isn't that bad, because it's more movie setting. It's not, yeah, it

[2:45] Speaker 1: was a movie. I just was a little confused. You know, it's, it's the type of thing like, I watched labyrinth when I was a kid, and I was like, What the hell is going on? And then I watched it as an adult, and I was like, Oh, this is amazing. I feel like it's in the same vein.

[3:02] Mike Abrams: I, yeah, I mean, the coat, you know, it is. It's so interesting because I, you know, I'm not, not a dancer, not a singer, not at all related to the Broadway community. Besides, now, because of this podcast, and so I never had that, like, go see the movie. I didn't know that there was a VHS until after I saw the revival, and someone was like, oh, you should go watch that version. There's a, you know, a 1998 DVD, or VHS wherever you can find, which is really what's up on YouTube. So it's like, oh, you can just watch pieces of it on YouTube. And I it was just so new to me. So every time I've heard you're not the first person that's done some like, substitute teacher brought it in and showed it Junior High project. But that's just fascinating to me, because that's just not at all what my junior high school would have.

[3:50] Speaker 1: Yeah, I grew up in LA, you know,

[3:53] Mike Abrams: yeah, I grew up in Indiana, so it's very, very different. So okay, so you saw that, you saw that, and did you, like, what was your take when you saw it? So you said you were confused. But did you okay? So you, that's junior high, you and you've kind of, like, probably blocked it out for the rest of

[4:12] Speaker 1: your life, until when, I mean, I remember really enjoying it, because I was a dancer, you know, I was, I was a really serious dancer, still, you know, still am, but now I'm acting more. But I was, I was like, I want to do something like that, like that looks amazing, like I remember it making a good impression that. I was like, whoa. What is this insanity? I want to be a cat. And then I kind of forgot about it. And then life happened, you know, boring, boring, boring, life, life, life. And then cats popped up in my life again, when I was in Finding Neverland, and it was all this. It was like the hottest buzz, backstage buzz. It was like, Oh, my God, did you hear cats is coming back to Broadway? I Oh, my God, did you hear like, Andy blank can be like, it was, like the number one hot Goss of backstage of Broadway.

[5:18] Mike Abrams: so you are on Broadway, on Broadway, and you're just, it's ever everything is everyone's talking.

[5:23] Speaker 1: Everything is happening. Broadway is happening. Cats is coming to town. We can't believe it. And I was like, I'm gonna, I'm gonna be in this show. I was determined, because I also Finding Neverland was my debut. We had been I'd done the out of town. I had done the workshop, the out of town run, and then we were like, in the thick of the run, when cats was, like, starting to buzz about, like, people are starting to get auditions. So I was like, Oh, I am so ready. This is going to be my second show. I am doing it like, I can't wait to dance in a unitard. Like, let's go. I was very excited.

[6:04] Mike Abrams: And this is what leads to this, this infamous audition. So, how did you land the audition? Okay, I know nothing about this world, so this is, like, it's so it's awesome, yes. So you agent landed the audition. You're ready to go? Yeah, and

[6:21] Speaker 1: I remember she landed the audition, and I was backstage in, like, the on the on stage left was where, like, the boys hung out of the backstage of Finding Neverland, and it was Colin or and some of our other boys, and we would always have our little tea time, you know, I'd walk over there and talk to them, and I remember talking to them, and I was like, you guys, I think, I think I'm gonna, I think I'm gonna buy a white unitard for this, for this audition. Like, what do you think? And they were like, go for it, do it. And I was like, You know what? I'm gonna do? It like, I don't care. Can I curse on this? Absolutely. I was like, whatever. I'm gonna fucking buy a fucking white fucking unit yard. That was verbatim what I said. So I remember going to the Capezio store on Broadway, I believe in 50th Street. I went to the Capilla store. I like, tried on a long sleeved white unitard that is a just a touch translucent. And I took a photo of myself for my agent, and I took and I sent it to her. I was like, This is my what I'm wearing to the cats audition. And she was like, I love it. Great. Everybody was just gassing me up. Everybody was like, Yes, this is such a good idea, Emma, live your dreams. And I was like, great. I'm amazing. I'm gonna kill this. And I do have to, I do have to give you some context of, like, my training as a dancer. Like, if I was like a, like a tap dancer, or a hip hop dancer, or just like a theater jazz dancer, I would not have done this. I because I have a lot like I have ballet and contemporary ballet training. So the only reason I had so much confidence in myself was because I have the technique to back it up. If I didn't have the technique to back it up, I wouldn't be so up my own ass about all of this. You know, because you have to, you have to know when you can be an asshole. You know what I mean,

[8:30] Mike Abrams: you're, you're qualified for this role, and there's not a big population of people qualified probably for, I

[8:36] Speaker 1: was like, I have the technique, so I'm going to be an asshole. So I was like, I can I have the chops to back it up so I feel confident enough to walk into this audition with a long sleeve white unitard. And that wasn't to say that I was like, I am going to be Victoria. That wasn't my goal, actually. And nobody knows this. This is exclusive Intel. My goal was not to be Victoria. It just was to be an asshole and to be just like to wear a white unitard. Because I was like, why not? I'm bored. Let's have some fun, because we only got one life to live. So I was like, I have really good ballet technique. I'm going to slay this audition. I'm going to wear a white unitard. So I buy the unitard, I show it to the boys backstage. They were like, This is phenomenal. Live your dreams. And I was like, You know what? I'm gonna, like, kick it up a notch. And I had just bought this, you know, like, onesies, like the animal onesies that I really love. I bought, I had just bought a tiger onesie from Target, so I was like, I'm going to wear my tiger onesie over my white unitard during the warm up. So I did that. So I walked into the audition room like that, because. Was a warm up room, and then, like the real room where we went into audition. So I walked into the warm up room with a tiger onesie with the hood up, with the ears and everything, and I just stood there, and then I just slowly unzipped and revealed my white unitard.

[10:21] Speaker 1: the room because I knew that I was going to know everybody. So people were just like, laughing and shaking their head. And I just started warming up. I was like, let's go. Let's do this.

[10:30] Mike Abrams: So you pretty much know Moses room, like, it's not a huge world that you're in. And so how many people in that room knew you were going to do that, and how many people saw the type? Oh, so no one knew. So you come in with Tiger outfit and onesie and all, and just

[10:46] Speaker 1: like, but I had a high bun. It was, I looked gorgeous. It was amazing. Just

[10:52] Speaker 3: amazing. Make a statement. Yeah, and my body looks

[10:55] Speaker 1: good because I was on Broadway. I was, like, doing eight shows a week. So I was like, Great, let's do this. I was 25 Yeah. Now

[11:02] Mike Abrams: how many I guess this is where I just don't know enough about the world. How many other auditions Have you ever dressed up for? None? Is this, like common is this?

[11:15] Speaker 1: It's pretty calm. It depends, because this isn't also you have to understand that that is not dressing up for me that's just, that's just being a little bit pointed and highlighted because I'm still wearing, like, proper dance attire, you know I'm saying, Yeah, I guess. Okay, so this was not a costume for me, wearing a very flashy, you know, dance attire, outfit. I just was being an asshole.

[11:52] Mike Abrams: Got it? Okay? You know, I'm trying to, so I'm trying to translate into my world, which is, is is worthless, because most of people listening to this don't are, aren't more me, they're more Broadway people, but I grew up playing hockey, and I like think of the now, I still still play. And you know, at this point, when you're playing just beer leagues or adult leagues, you know, it's like, it's for fun, but every once in a while, someone shows up with, like, the the face, like shield reflected or something. It's just like, you've got to be really good, yeah, to wear that and not be made fun of or not being just ridiculed the whole time, yeah? And so that's what sounds like you did. Yeah? It's like, Hey, this is still kind of like, quote, unquote, your equipment. Yeah,

[12:34] Speaker 1: it's still but it was a reflective mask.

[12:37] Mike Abrams: I feel like I need to get a tiger onesie to wear to a game one time, and just like, to the locker room. I think you should and then, okay, so you didn't, like, go full the cat's makeup and everything.

[12:49] Speaker 1: I didn't have leg warmers or arm warmers or any of that shit. No, I just was in a clean, long sleeved white unitard, no leg warmers, no nothing, just a unitard. My hair was up in a high bun, and I had like, a cat eye eyeliner, because I always wear cat eyeliner for auditions. And

[13:13] Mike Abrams: what was the reaction to the actual audition, not the other people in the warm up room, but like, there was it recognized that there was this kind of like, I don't know what the term is, like you kind of came in, guns blazing, Alan, I

[13:28] Speaker 1: did. I did. And people were and they were like, they looked at me and they just laughed and shook their head, and they were just like, work. Go like, live your dreams. They knew. They know that I'm that I was a concert dancer before Broadway. They knew that I danced in companies and that I was that I have strong ballet technique. So they looked at me like they laughed at first, like, oh, I can't. Like, of course you did this, Emma, because you're so extra and like, kind of rolled their eyes, but they were like, go, go kill that audition, because they knew I could, you know, like, one of my, like, one of my friends, Kurt, he's, like, phenomenal. He was in New York City ballad, and then he, he, we did the the workshop of American and Paris together, and we were in the same, the same group. And I think I went last, I went, I was in the last group, and he like, what did he say? He was like, he's like, oh, like, everybody's been waiting for this. Like, you know, Emma's going up now, like everybody's waiting. And it was funny, like, I and I really killed it. I remember being like, I was so on my leg. I was so like, every I was perform, it was like, it was one of the best auditions that I've ever had.

[14:52] Mike Abrams: And you went in even knowing that you really didn't, almost didn't even really want the role. You wanted to go in and deliver.

[14:58] Speaker 1: I just wanted to deliver. I wanted any role possible. I just wanted, I just wanted to be in the show. I just wanted to dance, in general. I just wanted to dance because I had been doing the same show for a couple of years already. So I just wanted something new. So I wasn't, I wasn't like Victoria or nothing. I just wanted to be I just wanted to make a statement, and I wanted to have fun, and everybody was taking it so seriously. You have to understand that, like the way that Broadway people like talk and think about Broadway and refer to Broadway is as though we are doing heart surgery, and is as though, like, somebody's life depends on it. And I am not. I never, I was always of the dance world, and I always was into film, so I never was a big Broadway person. So every time I would come into Broadway, I like, at Broadway circles and communities, I would just kind of be like, you know, but it's not that big of a deal. And I would always get a lot of shit for saying that, because I'm because I'm like, whatever. It's just brought It's a musical. Who cares? It's not heart surgery. So people are like, How dare you it's Broadway, it's cats. So that was kind of the sentiment behind it, was that I was like, you know, we're not doing heart surgery. It's just a musical. Like, everybody calm down. Let's have some fun, because it's all if we're not having fun, then why are we doing this at all? We should be having fun. This is amazing. Like we, one of the original cast members, was at our audition, teaching our audition. Like, that is history. It was beautiful. It was amazing. And I was like, this should be fun, but also you need to kill like, if you're gonna walk in with a white unitard and the tiger onesie, you have to have the chops. So that was my whole thing.

[16:51] Mike Abrams: That's, I mean, it's so fun to kind of think about. It's refreshing to hear that, because I being someone who's not really part of the community by any means. You know, I have a whole show devoted to just why I think there's the story was written wrong. That's, that's the premise of the show. And it is like, I go when I see and, you know, living in New York, I see a lot of them now I get to go, and I like, I'm very grateful to be able to go see Broadway. But I usually walk out, I'm just like, Oh, that was good, or that was, that was not life or death. But because I don't know anything else about the rest. I was like, Oh, that singing sounded great, or that dancing looked really hard. I can't do that, but I can't do I couldn't do the most basic of Tiktok dances, let alone, like Broadway dancing. And so it's like, it is an interesting piece to hear like from you. That is, like, it's fun. Let's have fun. Let's do that. Because I think you see that. You can see that you can see that in some of the shows I've seen where you can tell the group is having fun, yeah,

[17:45] Speaker 1: and that was my, that was the whole point of me being, you know, extra for that audition. So do you want, should

[17:53] Speaker 3: I tell the rest of the story? Yeah, I want to hear the rest, of course. So,

[17:57] Speaker 1: so I, like, Kurt was like, oh, Emma's group is going up. Like, oh my god, Everybody get ready. Like, Emma's going up, so I go up. I was like, Wow. I really nailed that. That was amazing. I was so proud of myself. It was one of the best auditions I had ever had. I was like, Wow. I really lived up to the white unitard. I patted myself on the back. I was so proud. Then I had to go to my theater to do my show that night. So that night, we're all getting ready. Everybody's talking about the audition, you know, the we get our call, our five minutes to curtain. So like one person, they start getting callbacks. People start getting callbacks. And I was like, right before your show, wow, like, right like, during, like, during, like, a show starting. You have to also understand that, like, life goes on and Broadway is always happening a pandemic. But you know, because we're living in an anomaly, an anomalous time right now,

[18:57] Mike Abrams: I would just assume that a callback like that Broadway would know that there's a like, hey, oh, they don't try, yeah, eight o'clock on on most nights, they're probably going to be busy, yeah?

[19:08] Speaker 1: But they don't care, because it's always about what's coming next. You know about the industry in general, it's like, what's next? So everybody's getting their call backs. And I was like, Oh, I'm so excited to get my call back. I was so confident. I was so confident, like, I received a text from somebody in Bill T Jones, the company who went to college with me. We were in a dance conservatory together. I received a text from him that night. Being like, I heard about you in the cast audition. I heard that you slayed it. Congrats. Like that was, that's how my audition went, that it was getting to the concert dance world, and I was receiving texts about, like, how, like, congrats, you booked it, basically. And I was like, I thought, I'm amazing. I'm the best, and I'm funny. I was just, I was on cloud nine, so I'm waiting for my call back, which I was certain that. Was gonna get and there's this one part, or I think the show was starting, and every single one of the girls in my cast got a call back, except for and I was like, did you get a call back? Did you everybody's like, yeah, I got my call back. Yeah, I got my and I text my agent. I was like, Have you heard anything? You know, nothing. Sorry, yeah, it's really weird. I thought I would hear something, okay, cool, cool. And there's this one part, like, right before this one dance number that I always stretch in the back of the stage, and, like, where people do crossovers, and I was stretching with, like, this beautiful costume. And, you know, it was a beautiful moment, and I was fully crying. I fully cried. I was so sad. I was crying over my legs, stretching about to go do a happy dance number, and Finding Neverland. And because I couldn't believe it, I couldn't believe that I didn't get a callback. And they like, I think they said, What did he say? Like, the only feedback was, we just weren't into her,

[21:10] Speaker 3: which is, yeah, not helpful.

[21:14] Speaker 1: Is that amazing? We just weren't into her. I was like, oh, okay, cool. Great. They weren't into me. Okay, fine,

[21:30] Speaker 1: I was just so bamboozled. My I was bamboozled because I was so I was so sure I was, I was just, you know, I thought that I was Sylvie, Guillaume, who's, like, my favorite, incredible prima ballerina. I was, I was sure that I got it so cut to, like, a month later, everybody booked, like, they had all booked cats. They were starting the the workshop. My friends were all in it. I was like, super jealous and but I was like, whatever. I don't care. Fuck you cats. Stupid anyway, it's Jellicle whatever. Who cares. And then I got an audition for Charlie and the Chocolate Factory. And then I booked baruca Salt, yeah, and it's conflicted with cats. So the moral of the story is, always know who you are because they didn't want they didn't want a personality like mine. They wanted something different because I've came in there. You know, who knows? Who knows? It doesn't matter. What matters is that I stayed true to myself because I am an idiot and I love making people laugh and being extra, so I stayed true to myself and I didn't get the job that I thought that I wanted, but because I stayed true to myself, and I still put that same fervor and that same extreme extremity into my audition for Charlie and the Chocolate Factory, I ended up booking a principal role that I got to create in point shoes, and I got to live my ballet dreams, which

[23:13] Mike Abrams: I think my my next question was going to be, which I think you just answered was, would you do anything differently? And no, no, go right back in maybe, maybe not. You know, a cat onesie instead of a tiger onesie. Next time, yeah,

[23:24] Speaker 1: next time, next time I'm gonna paint my face. Next time I'm gonna paint my face. I'm gonna get the leg warmers. I'm gonna get the hand warmers, I'm gonna Duke ears. Just go because, because we only have one life to live, I'm not gonna take something so seriously that is so silly, because look at the show, it's a silly show. Like I'm gonna take it seriously. What I'm going to take seriously is the work, the technique and the commitment to the work, but I'm not going to take myself seriously because that's just, what's the point? You know, that's why I love drag queen so much, is because they are committed to what they're doing, and they give 100% in their show, but at the end of the day, they know that they're a man in a dress, and they're not going to take themselves seriously, because we have to have fun. You have to lighten the mood. So that was my whole lesson from that, because I really was devastated that I didn't get a call back. I really, I truly, was crying. Those are real tears of sadness. It

[24:28] Mike Abrams: has to it has to hurt. It's definitely got to be a tough business. I mean, so I do love the fact that that, like one is that it worked out, you know, and in the long run, a good thing came from it. Yeah, also, there is the the knowing that, like you would, you'd go back and do it again. It was, like, it was, it was a decision that you made, and you can live with decision if that was just the wrong decision, because that's not what they wanted, but that's still how you would go back and do it again, which is

[24:56] Speaker 1: because it's all you want. Yeah, it's me, and that's who I am. And. Like I I'm still working on loving myself. You know, as I feel like we all are, we're all in a journey of self love. But I think that was a huge lesson for me in not people pleasing and just staying true to who I really am and to what to what makes me shine. Because what made me shine was what gave me a role that I didn't even know that I wanted,

[25:27] Mike Abrams: which you know, should, in the long run, always be better for everybody. So let's I want to pivot to the show now, but the way I want to do it is I want to talk about your new show. Okay, so I have been watching Love your character. Oh, my

[25:45] Speaker 1: God, I can't wait for you to watch the rest, because it's only been the first three episodes, three episodes you hardly have seen anything

[25:52] Mike Abrams: I know, and your character is also a little extra, so extra, super fun to watch. So what I want to do is, because, you know, we can when we'll get to my my thesis on the show towards the end, and I'll I can. I'm curious to hear your take if you agree with me or not. But what I want to do is, I want to talk about your show. I want you to tell me a little bit about it, but then, you know, for anyone who hasn't had a chance to see it yet, you know, only three episodes in. But then I want to go through each one of the main characters, and I want to pick out which cat they'd be okay. And I've thought I've done enough, I've done a lot more thinking than I probably should admit that I've done about this for who they should be, and I have some but I want to hear what you think as well. But first, tell me a little bit like, tell me more about the show. Tell me about what it's like, how it's been, and for anybody that's listening that hasn't a chance to see it like, what, what they're gonna get

[26:43] Speaker 1: well, so I'm doing this new ABC sitcom called Call your mother. It's on on Wednesdays at 930 it is. It's a it's a show about an empty nester. The mom is played by Kira Sedgwick, and she isn't able to reach her son because she's an empty nester in Indiana. I believe

[27:09] Mike Abrams: it's very grateful that it wasn't going to just rain on an Indiana parade in Iowa, pick on Iowa today. That's

[27:15] Speaker 1: great. And she called her her son. She can't reach him, so she moves, or she she goes to La spontaneously, without telling him, and and then ends up staying in LA because she wants to keep her family together, because the dad died when the kids were young. So I play her son's girlfriend, who's like a social media influencer. She's basically like an alien to to Jean's character, to Kira Cedric's character. So she's like the opposite of Jean. She's Latina. She's a social media influencer. She's very outspoken, she's very opinionated, she's very honest, she's very blunt. She knows what she knows what she wants. She's a business woman. She's very clear. So they, they kind of butt heads, yeah, and it's, it's fun, you know, it's a really light show. It's for everyone. I think the the appeal for for the show today, in this day and age, and what's happening in our in our world, is just to bring lightness and joy and laughter and just kind of an escape to everyday life. Because also, the show is set in post quarantine,

[28:33] Mike Abrams: yeah, and even calls to that a little bit. I noticed the last episode was called quarantine. I think it was. It was kind of pulling off of that. I also do appreciate that there are a wide variety of characters, which means that there's probably someone most like someone in the cast that is relatable. Oh

[28:52] Speaker 1: yeah, there's so many people on the cast that you can relate to and from different walks of life, like my favorite. I shouldn't say my favorite, but I'm honest. Sherry Shepherd is on the show. She's now a recurring role. She started as a guest, and she plays jeans best friend, and she's just like, such a breath of fresh air, just in general, in life, I love her so much. But she's, she's a great role. She's just kind of like the best friend who likes to watch bad TV and wants to critique everything, and she just gives her opinion, and she's just really funny. And Austin crew plays lane, who's Rachel Sennett, who plays Jackie, is who's Freddie's sister. He plays the gay roommate that he like. You'll see later on the episodes. He does music, and he's really sassy and fun and his own unique person, everybody's just bringing themselves to the to the table, and it's like we all really like each other, which is amazing and doesn't always. Accent in life, in jobs, but I'm really lucky that we really are having a lot of fun on like doing this. This show about reconnecting to family and about joy. Yeah,

[30:14] Mike Abrams: I've thoroughly enjoyed it. I mean, it's three episodes inside, and when we're recording this, I don't know how many will have by the time when it's launched. But while recording, this has been three episodes, so I'm basing all of my knowledge off the first three episodes, and I want to hear what you what you think. So I'm going to go through each character, and I want you to tell me who you think they would be like, which cat they

[30:37] Mike Abrams: I'm ready for the the answers to so first is Jean gene.

[30:52] Mike Abrams: I had her as Jenny Annie dots, which is like I had the mom character,

[31:04] Speaker 1: should say them first, and then I should just agree or disagree. Okay, listening to this is gonna be like, Wow, she's useless. She know,

[31:13] Mike Abrams: you know Victoria, right? I know Victoria. Okay, okay, so let's go. Who would be your character?

[31:24] Speaker 1: it's the two, the the two, like sexy cats who sing this the duet Demeter. I think that, I think that Celia would be Demeter. Oh,

[31:33] Mike Abrams: that's a good okay. I actually thought you'd be Victoria, Victoria, but Victoria

[31:37] Speaker 1: is too innocent and pure

[31:43] Mike Abrams: I actually have that written too. So I agree, I agree with you there, but I also put Grizabella. There's a lot of theories that Victoria is Victoria, yeah, she went through some stuff. You're right. And so I actually think your character is like, somewhere in between those two, like, you're hopefully not going too far down that path to grizzabel world, but, but your character has a lot

[32:13] Mike Abrams: yeah, which would be, which would be bomb and Demeter, so that's a lot more sass

[32:20] Mike Abrams: so let's go to I actually, I had Jackie, the sister, placed as one of those two, really, but she's a little bit more reserved. It feels like

[32:33] Speaker 1: she's a little more she's a little more reserved. And I don't want to say dorky. That's such a terrible adjective, I mean, because I also don't want to give away, like how her how her character develops in the show on call your mother. But I think because she has, she has depth to her also, like she's not, she's not innocent and pure or sexy and confident. So let

[33:05] Mike Abrams: me tell you the depth of demeters character then, because I've spent again, 30 plus episodes thinking about just the storyline of this, nothing else, not the dancing, the singing, or anything else, just purely how it was written, of a story. And I generally base most of my thoughts in sitcoms, because that's the like type of TV I love. I demeters characters is, in theory, in some versions of this, in an abusive relationship with one of the other cats, yeah. So there's a lot of depth to that character that doesn't get as much that's into there. So that's kind of how I

[33:46] Speaker 1: The cavity, cavity, the COVID, yes, it's all coming screaming back to me.

[33:54] Mike Abrams: The VHS is rewinding into your mind. Okay? So, yeah, you saw the the revival, and

[34:04] Speaker 1: Samantha Sturm, I think played Demeter, and it was amazing.

[34:08] Mike Abrams: The the, what about your boyfriend? What about the son? Freddie. I had a lot of trouble with Freddie, because I don't think

[34:16] Speaker 1: there's not, um, I was thinking mango dairy and rumble teaser are like Emma and Joey's dynamic like us in real life, our dynamic is MongoDB and rumble teaser.

[34:32] Mike Abrams: Oh, that's fun. Okay,

[34:34] Speaker 1: actually, I actually had a director session with John Hooper to play rumble teaser for the movie. Really fun fact, they

[34:45] Mike Abrams: did that as the original British version they did.

[34:50] Speaker 1: And so I sang, yeah, I sang the slow one. It was like mango Jerry and rumble tea is a weird it was a different melody. It was. Because I remember asking all my cats friends to be like, What is this melody? And they were like, what like? Because it was for the for the film. It was different. I had to, like, go. I had to have a whole session. It was a whole thing. It was very different. I

[35:14] Mike Abrams: was not prepared for that, because I had, that was my all my favorite parts when I saw the the first the revival, the first time I saw it twice, first time I saw I knew nothing about it, walked in, walked out like mesmerized. Wasn't told anything, didn't know the history, never watched the VHS, yeah. And was dead sober, which was a mistake. And so I like, that was the one song that I sang for like, a week, wow. And then when the movie came, I heard the rev like, what remix version? Or, I guess, really the original. It's the original. I was not happy, because I was really excited to see how they did that

[35:50] Speaker 1: scene. Yeah, they made it different. But I almost, I almost booked that another almost, well, it wasn't almost for the Broadway

[35:59] Speaker 1: your it was on Skype, because he was in England, John Hooper, but do you know he said he was like, Andy Blankenbuehler had the best things to say about you. And I was like, oh, oh, he did. Wow, isn't that funny? Life is funny. It

[36:19] Mike Abrams: is. It is an interesting it's kind of fascinating, just how everything kind of sometimes comes full circle. And

[36:24] Speaker 1: that was a full circle moment for me, the Broadway audition, really. You know, it was a moment. It was a traumatic moment for me. That was my redemption. Was I was like, Well, I'm going to be in the movie, but then I didn't get the movie, so

[36:42] Mike Abrams: let's run into rapid fire. Okay, and we'll lead to kind of the last, my last question, which is, I'll give you my argument, but I'd be curious to hear if you want to agree or disagree with me. But first thing is, you who? Who did you like? Really? I know you said you wanted to just be anybody, but if you had to pick of choice, which character would you want to play?

[37:03] Speaker 1: I would want to play. I want to play. I want I have two answers, because I do want to do the Victoria solo, just because it's such a beautiful Adagio, and just the ballerina and me, would love to do that, but I think I would want to play Demeter

[37:19] Mike Abrams: now. I want to reframe this question for the rapid fire, what if you just ignore like, this is my skill set. This is I'm good at like I could do anybody. Is there? Would that change your answer?

[37:32] Speaker 1: If I could be anybody, I think I'd want to be the cavity, the the villain, the villain, because that's so fun.

[37:42] Mike Abrams: Yeah, I could, I feel like, with everything, with everything you've told me so far, I feel like you would do Macavity or rum tuck Tugger, like the rock star.

[37:52] Speaker 1: Yeah, the rock star. That's right, that's always get those two mixed up. I'm terrible, useless. I want to be extra role, the parents man role,

[38:05] Mike Abrams: yes, it was Tyler Haynes and the revival. Tyler Haynes, yes, okay. I feel like, yeah, that would be, I want to be. I want to be around sometime you would have a lot of fun with that personality of, oh yeah, tonight. What is your favorite and least favorite character in

[38:27] Speaker 1: show, oh, my God, I don't know. I think my favorite character, maybe is what's the the little one who sings like the Grizz. What is it? Not the main one, not wasabella, not, not the not the old one that sings memory, but the little one who she like?

[38:54] Mike Abrams: I, it depends on the production I've learned. But I, I think it's, it's one of the younger, that

[39:04] Speaker 1: little, tiny kitten that she like, comes out, and then she sings memory like an octave up. It's the cutest moment. And I think it's so precious. And I love

[39:13] Mike Abrams: that moment. Okay, so that's, that's your favorite. What about least favorite? Do you have any favorite?

[39:17] Speaker 1: I mean, I liked the tap number because it was this amazing tapper on the Broadway show. But I could do without the tap number, I guess. Okay,

[39:29] Mike Abrams: so that's the mom that's that's the one that in the movie. Also gets a little weird.

[39:32] Speaker 1: Yeah, you know I could do without it, because I'm like, okay, I get it. Like, again, if you're talking about skill set, skill set. I admired it. I respected it. She was fabulous, but I was like, why I don't they're in unitards. I want to see ballet and contemporary dance. I want them in the floor. I want them crouched. I want them on all fours. I want to see dance. I don't want to see no 10. Up. That was just my, that's my I love it.

[40:05] Mike Abrams: I love it because you, you're coming from your lens, and I, like, I watch this from a totally different view, yeah, as, like, an outsider, just not having no idea. Don't know anything about contemporary dance, or anything about ballet. I don't know about any of these. And I'm just like, that looked hard, so that was cool. It

[40:20] Speaker 1: is hard, and that's why I love it so much, because you don't understand, like these dancers, and especially it's a raked stage. The stage is tilted. It's a rake stage. So a normal Broadway stage is flat, but a rake stage, it comes from the Shakespearean days that to give better sound, like in a proscenium, they would, they would the stage would be tilted down and so that everybody could see in like an arena. So it was better for optics and for and for audio if the stage was raked. So it's an old school thing. So whenever you have a raked stage, like in this day and age, it's just evil because it's so hard on the body. Like even walking, even walking on a slanted on a slanted stage, is you are prone to injury. So if you are dancing the choreography of cats on a raked stage, the amount of respect I have for those dancers is like through the roof. Like, never

[41:20] Mike Abrams: knew that. It makes it even more impressive, because you see all these things. And if it's like, oh, you're on your toe and it's pointed down, like the stage is pointed down like

[41:30] Speaker 1: that does to their legs, yeah, wow.

[41:34] Mike Abrams: See, learn something new. I know so little about this anyway, the best

[41:39] Speaker 1: dancers on Broadway, the best dancers in the country, like they're phenomenal. And that

[41:44] Mike Abrams: was when I first saw it. And the whole premise of this came up. I was very angry at the writing of the story. And I was like, but the like, everything else, the singing, the dancing, everything else, I was like, that looked really impressive. This is, like, top of their field, really cool, really unique, really different. But I was like, but this story has some flaws, oh yeah, and that, and that is where I've kind

[42:12] Speaker 1: of understand what it was like, even when I was in the audience at the Broadway stage, as I was with my friend, and I was like, What just happened when it ended? I was like, what? I didn't even know that she died. I was so confused,

[42:25] Speaker 3: yeah, I mean, they murder a cat. And I was so confused. I was like,

[42:29] Speaker 1: the moon is the moon is coming down. I was like, what? I also was not sober, so

[42:35] Mike Abrams: I wish I was given that recommendation. I was not okay, last question's favorite song

[42:51] Speaker 1: I loved the song that Colin did. I loved it just because it was Colin.

[42:58] Mike Abrams: Yeah, phenomenal beef, which I discuss with him. And I don't know if his episode, though, yeah, I don't know if his episodes will be out by the time this one's out, so I will. I'll save most of my beef for that. I'll have to listen. I I was, I was traumatized by his particular the way that they designed the set shine the light into the crowd, and it like blinded me.

[43:29] Mike Abrams: being like, Oh, this is fun. This fun is fun. And then I was just like, I couldn't see. I was like, I was like, I don't like this cat anymore. You were personally offended. So I had a very long, conversation with Colin about that, I understand, but I it is a fun it's a fun scene in general. So good, yeah, and they build a they build a train, like,

[43:52] Speaker 1: that's a big deal. Yeah, it makes absolutely no sense. I don't know why. I don't know the motivation for it, but I was along for the ride.

[44:00] Mike Abrams: Well, he's the railway cat. Sure. That's it. That's the whole time. That's that's the whole time. There's not a lot else besides that, he's

[44:10] Speaker 1: there. If I took a cat's quiz right now, I would fail. I

[44:15] Mike Abrams: can, I can answer one line of questioning only, and that's it, and that's all I know. Is story. The same thing. You could say, oh, this person did this, or what's the little off beat cat who said this? I'm like, I don't know, but I do know that that number was not the way that this should have been. And this is the story here, and this is where. And that's my last question, which is I have argued. And the reason this whole thing exists is that I don't think Grizabella should have been the cat to die at the end. She shouldn't have been the choice to die. It's a reward. I know you probably haven't put any thought into this, yeah, but you agree or disagree with me? Do you think she let's just

[44:56] Speaker 1: talk about the lifespan of a cat in. General, like, an actual cat, like they live. I had a cat that lived to 17 years. Wow, by that time, it's like, just put the cat out of their misery. You know, I feel like Grizabella was, like, she was 18. It was time, it was time she needed to go. It was her time. Yeah,

[45:23] Mike Abrams: with that argument, though, that argument is the argument for the character Gus, who is even older,

[45:28] Speaker 1: oh, my God, oh, I forgot about him,

[45:32] Mike Abrams: and he's the number one argument against, against her. You're absolutely

[45:36] Speaker 1: right. You're absolutely right. Yeah, there's so many of them. Oh,

[45:44] Mike Abrams: there's, yeah, there's like 25 characters total, I think. And there's some that are playing multiple each ones get the songs. I think there's, I found that there's like nine that, really, I thought were contending for the right to die, okay? And because I looked at it as a singing competition, do you think

[46:06] Mike Abrams: too villainous, like he didn't you need him, he's the he didn't deserve it.

[46:13] Speaker 1: Because this is a good thing, because we want, okay, who deserves the prize? It depends on

[46:20] Mike Abrams: how you examine it. Most people examine it with grizzabel is the redemption story true, or Gus is the older one that's lived his life and should go those are the two kind of common arguments. I argued that this was because I saw it with Leona Lewis The X Factor, and it's a singing competition. And so I wanted to see who had the best performance, who was the most for me, who did I remember most? And that to me, was Tugger and Mr. Police.

[46:49] Speaker 1: Oh yeah, Mustafa Lees and so that is how I agree with anything you say.

[47:00] Mike Abrams: I appreciate the support. I know I've spent more time thinking about this, but I really wanted to hear and I'm glad, because not only did I get to hear about your audition, but I also I just love the message behind it, which is like, I know what I'm capable of doing. I'm gonna go own it. I'm gonna go. I think I was made to believe by your friend that it was like I thought I was expecting full cat hair

[47:28] Speaker 1: stories. So if he told the story, he's like she was in the White House and then Obama came out. Yeah, no, come on. But

[47:36] Mike Abrams: I do love that you just owned the your truth. That was my truth, and went with it. And it all worked out in the long run. It all worked out because you're on ABC, because

[47:47] Speaker 1: I'm on ABC now, and I'm gonna get, I'm gonna get a white unit charge somewhere into ABC just for this podcast, for this moment, I'm gonna, like, find a way to get me in a white long sleeve unit charge just for you. Mike,

[48:03] Mike Abrams: social influencer, oh yeah, I'm

[48:07] Speaker 1: gonna find that picture of me in the white unit card. I would love the Capezio dance store. I would

[48:15] Mike Abrams: love to include it in the description and everything in this

[48:19] Speaker 1: to find it. I knew, well, that would be

[48:23] Mike Abrams: phenomenal to include that for the visual, for this audio form. Oh, my God. So my last question is, how can we find you on social media? Stay in touch with you. My

[48:36] Speaker 1: social media, my Instagram and my Twitter are different. I think it's Emma kaimaras on Instagram, and then it's Emma Sophia Kai on Twitter. I'm new to Twitter. I just got a Twitter like, a month ago.

[48:51] Mike Abrams: Okay. Are you enjoying it? Are you tweeting a lot? I

[48:55] Speaker 1: it's so funny and ironic that I play a social media influencer. Because, you know, social media is a funny little dimension, and it's, it has its purposes, and it has its ups, you know, it's pros, but I just, I just, I just preferred the real world.

[49:17] Mike Abrams: I mean, absolutely. Well, thank you for being here, for being on this episode, and thanks everyone for listening to this episode of the wrong cat died the podcast, break cat Stoss trophy to follow along. You can subscribe on Apple podcast, Spotify, Stitcher, or anywhere else you listen to podcasts. Follow us on Twitter and Instagram at the wrong cat died. Or check out our website, the wrong cat died.com. Do.