This transcript was automatically generated and might contain errors.

[0:00] Speaker 1: Hi, I'm Ariana Grande. Hi, I'm Cynthia Erivo, and you're listening to the Broadway Podcast Network, visit vpm.fm to discover more.

[0:20] Speaker 2: to

[0:30] Speaker 3: the wrong cat died. The podcast breakdown of the cat's atrophy. I'm your host. Mike Abrams, and today we have an amazing guest. He starred as skimble Shanks in the 2016 Broadway revival of cats. Welcome Colin Cunliffe, and thank you for joining me. Thank you for having me, Mike. I am very excited to talk to you. I have done a little bit of research and had a little bit of conversations about skimble Shanks, but I think there's a lot more to dig here. But before we get into the character and the plot and everything else, I love to hear, always hear your background with the musical, because I know you were in a touring production prior to the Broadway revival, but, but had you seen it before? Like, what is your do you see as a kid? Like, when was your introduction? I

[1:11] Speaker 4: have a long history with this show. I'm one of those kids. I, I, I listened to the Broadway recording, the cast recording, for years, I I'd actually seen my brother perform like the Rum Tum Tugger number in, like a High School Musical. It's like an Andrew Lloyd Webber review. And I it wasn't the first time my brother, he was older, you know. So I was just a little bit in awe. And I was like, that's so cool to which then got me into the cast recording. And years later, ended up going and seeing the London production. You know, I had written in my, you know, for school report, when I turn 18, I'm going to move to New York and be in cats on Broadway. So it was like tearing your super fan. Oh, super fan. But I actually hadn't even seen the show yet when I'd written that, so I didn't even really know the show. So you saw the high school

[2:02] Speaker 3: production? Well, tell me about this high school production. This is that's almost more fascinating than the Broadway production. Well,

[2:07] Speaker 4: it was actually, it was just, it was a selection of Andrew Lloyd Webber numbers. So there were a few different ones, and there was the Rum Tum Tugger was a number. And I think it was just, I love that

[2:19] Speaker 3: for high school, they pick that option. Pick Tugger, yeah, thrust on stage in high school, exactly. So

[2:29] Speaker 4: saw the London production with a friend. Loved it was very torn on whether I was a Rum Tum Tugger or a skimble Shanks or a monkey strap. So they were pulling me in all different directions of my personality. And then there was an audition right when I graduated theater school in New York for the first non equity tour of the show. So that's

[2:53] Speaker 3: where you started, right? So you went on tour as a swing and who did you cover? I

[2:58] Speaker 4: covered. They called it the big boys swing track. And it was one of those, you know, those moments I didn't really know what a swing was. It was my first big professional job, and they're like, so you got it? And I'm like, oh my god, great. They're like, so you're gonna be covering all these cats. And I was like, well, but which one do I like, get to play? And they're like, No, you get to play all of them if somebody's sick or injured. I was like, oh, okay, I think this is good, and it was probably best. I didn't know what I was getting myself into, because I ended up covering seven tracks in the show. Let's see. There was enough. Monkey strap, skimble, Shanks, Rum Tum, Tugger, Mungo, Jerry, tumble, Brutus. I did not tumble. And Plato Macavity. So Plato Macavity is for one part of the show, he's Plato, and then the next part, yes, yeah, okay, Mike, you've gotten so much knowledge, yeah. And it's funny, for the audition, you know, I gone. I was like, I'm a Tugger man. I'm like, I'm like, so I, I went in with black velvet belled jazz pants and a ripped Army tank top. And was like, what's up? Went for it. Went for it. And they were probably like, this poor, poor kid, let's give him a call back, you know, just to be nice. And the musical director, Kristen Blodgett, she was like, this kid's a skimble and so they gave me all this skimble material, and I kept being like, No, I'm a tutor. No. Oh, and it started, I think, then my long history of feeling, actually, the connection with quite a few of these cats,

[4:34] Speaker 3: that is. And so your first, this is your first job, like, right out of, okay? And you didn't even realize that you basically had seven jobs. Now, I had to figure out seven lines and seven tracks and everything to go with it. Correct?

[4:46] Speaker 4: Yeah, we're learning, you know, we're learning the show. When you learn the we learned the Jellicle Ball first, and it was the full companies learning this. And then they were like, okay, they started staging the number. And they were like, okay, all the swings, step out. Right? And that's when they started, like, just running the show with the playing company. And I was like, Oh, I Okay, I'm starting to see what this is going to be. But, you know, I think years later, my body is very grateful for that. But, and it's just, it's wild, because then and then, 20 years later, auditioned for the Broadway, this Broadway revival, didn't get it, and then got a call out of the blue a year later and asked me if I would come in the following Tuesday to start rehearsals. And

[5:31] Speaker 3: you So who did you audition for when you came back for the revival? Was it for skimble shanks? Same

[5:36] Speaker 4: deal. They were like, We want to see for skimble shanks. And I'm like, listen, I'd really like to do Tugger. Could I do the Tugger material? And they were like, Sure, okay, yeah. And I went in and I did the Tugger material once they're great, let's work on the skimble stuff again. I was like, can't they just see me as a Tugger? But it's actually this beautiful. I mean, I Kristen Blodgett, who was like, I said the musical director for this non equity tour 20 years ago, later, is doing this Broadway revival. And I just think she, you know, she knows she knows this show more than anyone. She's been involved for a very, very long time. She is a goddess when it comes to music and musical direction and conducting. And I just adore that woman, with all my heart and but when she is set on what cat you are, I don't think she does.

[6:27] Speaker 3: You're that you're you are typecasted now in her mind, and you're in so you came in halfway through, or part way through, what I find it fascinating, of like, there's the whole the cat school and learning through it. But then when you come in, you come in, you kind of are continuing. You get a little bit less of that. So what were you told? I mean, you definitely, as a fan, knew more about this, but what are you told on, like, Hey, here's how you really need to play skin

[6:53] Speaker 4: bull Seales. They I went and got my score because I had a hunch that I could bring this up. But they gave, basically gave you, I think these were three words describing your

[7:03] Speaker 3: past magic, three words your cast, that your cast definitely dealt with. Yes.

[7:08] Speaker 4: So skimbles, I was told, what was it self regarding caring and bright, interesting, I know, and we have a lot to talk about, Mike, because I listened to your skim bowl. Um, well, let's start with skim is not a good nickname I get. Skimble Shanks is long but, but we go with skimble, not skim

[7:35] Speaker 3: skim. Okay, so what's one thing I think is super fascinating about this, and this is a little behind the scenes for anybody who's listened from the beginning. From beginning. I recorded those in order, and I basically learned the stuff as it went. So if you listen to the first kind of couple, I clearly had no idea what was happening, like, later on in the show. And then, as I've learned more over time, I listened back to him, like, oh. And I was reading back, being like, I definitely, like, felt some weird things or thought some weird things are, like, now that I know more, I'm like, Oh, that makes more sense. Like, I should probably redo all these, but that's so what I want to hear. What else you have? Because, like, skim Okay, so skimble,

[8:13] Speaker 4: yeah, he is, I'm down for the uncle. He is definitely, like, the uncle. Like other try. I like to, he's a good little gay uncle. I like to think of them as definitely not the creepy uncle, though he's not the Home Alone guy. I was so sad when I heard you say that they love Kimball. I like to think and the hope

[8:36] Speaker 3: I do think I was a little scarred, and I told the story by the production, by being, like, blinded by that number. And I think there's some, like, subconscious animosity there came out when I was writing, when I'm just, like, I, you know, I get it. I love those. It was cool. Like, the whole, I was like, because I was fascinated by that whole building the train. I was like, you know, I love the set design aspect of this. I was like, Oh, this is cool. That's gonna be a wheel, and it's gonna be that. And then I couldn't see, like, the hole for like, five minutes after and I was mad. And I was sitting there just mad. And so I think I really just, I project a lot of that in the episode, that anger onto skim bowl, fair

[9:17] Speaker 3: And I do, and there is some, we'll get to the Caspian wind tree, but there is rumors that is the that he is an uncle for a lot of the cats. And so I think that's where it came from, yes, but I maybe I was a little too harsh. That's

[9:35] Speaker 3: So I would have thought there would have been a word, something with orderly, or something more like it was very prompt, and like that character keeps everything in line, almost like Jenny, a little bit, but in a different way. And so I do find the those three words, they make sense, but I was definitely thinking there would be a different route there.

[9:55] Speaker 4: He's, I mean, that's the cool thing about skimble, and that's why I love him so much, is that he. Say yes, he's very orderly, and he gets things done and all that. But he's he is a little mischievous, like the lie at the beat on the opening is at 1142 with the signal overdue and the passengers authentic to a man, that's when he would appear, and it's Sandra to so he knows that they're late, but he's been busy in the luggage van doing but he's waiting for them to freak out before he then comes out as like, it's fine, we can go. I'm here, but, you know, so he's playing around with them. Okay, it's a little more like that, a little more mischievous. And I think that's where then he clicks in with the kittens, because the kittens and skimble are together a lot, and they like him with that. And I think because he is still playful, he likes to get shit done, and it needs to get done, but work hard, play hard. That's

[10:54] Speaker 3: fair. I can see that. And I think, like, it is a upbeat, fun number, and so it kind of has to that aspect. And same

[11:02] Speaker 4: deal with Jenny, I don't remember in the revival, if this is how he starts, I think so. But he's sleeping. So he's sleeping. And same with Jenny, which I just, I like that little connect. So because they've been out all night doing their thing and having a blast, and so they're on just kind of a different time clock as well. Who do you

[11:22] Speaker 3: think their relation is? Because there's, there's two rumors, and then there's also in, I don't know if it's in the 1998 movie or where, I mean, like my for your production, my knowledge is two shows, and trying to just remember what I saw versus I've seen the 1998 production in bits and pieces. More than i wish i to admit at this point, because it's what's on YouTube, and there's a part where they're holding hands Jenny and skimble. And so I think that there's a lot of thought that they're either related or together.

[11:52] Speaker 4: I think that they are, like, really, really tight, like, best buds that totally get it on together. She's definitely had his kittens, and he's raised her. You know, it's like, it's, it's an very incestuous we Exactly, exactly, but, you know, Jenny and skimble, they team up in the sensual clump in the middle of the ball. They roll downstage together. So, you know, they, they definitely have their fun together.

[12:21] Speaker 3: Okay, okay, so, so he comes out. He's fun. He's definitely has that Uncle feel. There's a part in the 1998 movie that I don't know if you did in the revival, because it's, you know, I probably couldn't, wouldn't have saw it anyways, because it's, like, very quick. But skimble Definitely drops his pants in front of like, 10 other cats. And it's a, I think it's also part of why, probably I went the creepy uncle route when I was writing this, is that that, to me, was a an interesting decision, not from like, a musical aspect, but from, like, if I'm thinking about the story and this character is to have, you know, our train conductor and coming in doing his dance hours, and also, just like dropping trap,

[13:05] Speaker 4: he's playing, he's telling the story of what happens when he goes into, like, the the train cars. So he's actually, he's he's playing the character. It's not him taking off, okay? He's miming, taking off pants, like he's just gotten to the birth. They're getting ready for bed. He's gonna splash some water on his face. So he's he's saying that like it was, yeah, you missed that one. I did

[13:33] Speaker 3: not follow that at all when I watched it. So that makes sense. Okay, so that makes more sense. What about the handing Old Deuteronomy this?

[13:45] Speaker 4: I keep trying to wrap my brain around, I don't remember this. Is this at the end of the train? Do you know

[13:52] Speaker 3: it's either I'm trying to think, because I basically just watched the YouTube clip over and over and over again until I got tired of it, and when I was writing these, and I just remember him handing something. And I first was, like, this looks like a bribe, because, like, Old Deuteronomy gets very excited and like, like, shows whatever he handed around. I'm sure it's he's actually handing him nothing in the in the musical. But like, it was intended to be some type of at first I thought was just like the ticket, like he pays, Here's your ticket. But the way Old Deuteronomy got excited for it made me think that, you know, and again, the angle I'm taking is that this is, this is the bribe. This

[14:27] Speaker 4: is really not Mike absolutely skimble would never, never do that. Never. He does not need to. Okay, the way he works. No, I'm trying to think because he comes, he sees him at the beginning of the number, and old dudes kind of like, All right, let's, let's pick this up. And skimbles like, Yeah, got it. And then he sees him at the train, and he kind of is like, Good job, skimble. But the only other thing I'm thinking is maybe on the video, does he throw? Does skimble Throw him the mouse? Like, the that might be it, yeah, secondary mouse that, again, he's acting out. For, like, all the kittens and all the cats, I think that might be what you're

[15:03] Speaker 3: but he looks really excited when he gets it. It's a mouse and old dudes a cat, and the cat, I guess that's true, yeah. So he throws him out. So what's the, what's the story there? Like, why is he throwing on the mouse? Well,

[15:14] Speaker 4: that was the, that's video, because we didn't do that. I got it. That was actually a really fun thing. Each night I'd throw the mouse to a different cat,

[15:23] Speaker 3: so you're definitely not bribing. No,

[15:27] Speaker 4: no, no, no. It's like, and who like that night was really making skimble happy. And he's like, Okay, you get the mouse. You know, that's a cool arcing on stage, and they're being lazy. They don't get the mouse. I do

[15:41] Speaker 3: love hearing all the different things your production did to kind of have some improv in a show. That's not improv, I mean, like with the picture, and there's just some crazy stories that come from it. Because I think a lot of people have, like, very strong visual memories of something that happened in there that could be very different than someone else who saw it. And I think that's like, a really cool take that your production did.

[16:03] Speaker 4: Well, I think it's, you know, I think it's built into the show where it's, you know, we don't leave the stage. You don't have to get read back up, you know, it's, you're looking around and you're playing on one of the coolest sets that's ever been designed. The lighting is spectacular. Everyone's in makeup and costume, you know, so you don't have to ever leave the world, and that right there, then just provides a lot of opportunity for, you know, relationships. And as you've learned from all this there, that's very strong in this show, is how everybody's connected. So, you know, it was really cool, even coming in halfway through the run and taking kind of what I had done in skimble before, 20 years prior. And it's still kind of, LA, it still kind of worked, um, and some of those relationships were oddly very similar, with the same cats that then and ones that you wouldn't even they're not even featured. Those moments aren't featured. They're in the dark by a pipe in the back, you know, but they're the strong kind of relationship building moments that I think really make that show.

[17:08] Speaker 3: So let's talk about one of those, yeah, with Tyler. And Tyler Haynes, there was, and I think I've gotten a little bit more to the bottom of it, because it was, it was in the rumor mill, and Tyler answered some, and then I I've heard that some of this came from the jump yard, which is the fan group that has come to see the show. That are, you know, the super fans that have been to a lot. And I think that the essentially, they had basically saw that there was some friendship and some relationship that isn't normally there between Tugger and skimble, and I think that they just went with it. And I'm curious, because I believe tower said that you continued with it when you came on. What like, how much went into that? Like? Is that just something we're just like, Oh, we're gonna do this. Or when you thought about it 20 years ago, did you also have some relationship with Tugger, which might have also just been because you really wanted to be Tugger that definitely

[18:03] Speaker 4: permeated my skim bowl. Like, I think he, he, he doesn't want to like Tugger, but he does and, and I think Tugger likes him. I think that, like, you know, Tugger breaks him a little bit. You know, there's, there's times where, if you know the kittens aren't around, or this and that, you know, maybe skibble bends a little bit and, you know, they've partied a few times together, for sure. I think they've had some fun, you know, but skibble Can't really reveal that to all the

[18:33] Speaker 3: cats. So, did you ever take the mouse and say, like, I see someone from the junkyard here, down there, and I'm gonna throw it to Tugger today, just to mess with them.

[18:45] Speaker 4: No, I may, I know, but I might have thrown him the mouse because he's, he's up on like, this weird perch, like he's not really involved with the immediate focus. So of course, that's like, that's Tugger gold, because you can just do whatever you want up there. And yeah, and we definitely, we would clock in with each other sometimes. And I mean, I it would have been rare that I would have thrown it to Tugger, though, just because this is skimbles moment, and this is not the time where skimble Once Tugger taking his light.

[19:21] Speaker 3: The more I've learned that there's my deep passion of like, where I mean, to your point where you're mad that I called called skimball, the like, the uncle and like, I love that there's that people have strong opinions about the show. And, I mean, I have one strong opinion about the show, which we'll get to at the end, but the rest are just me, kind of like trying to fill in the blanks, because I'm more of a like, sitcom fan, where I like a neat, tidy story. And I did not get that. And so knowing like I would have, I wish it would have just been like, Yep, I saw that person. I know that they think that these two are. Us to dislike each other. So I'm gonna throw it to him. There's a little bit there

[20:04] Speaker 4: that that almost goes against the whole show. Where, like, what I love about this show is that the whole thing starts off with, like, What the hell are you doing here humans? You know, this is not a show for humans. So it's very understandable all the reactions to it. You know, this is a show where the humans have come into the junkyard, and we decide after this opening number through the opening number that, okay, we'll let you watch, but we're not going to give you anything. This isn't about you. We don't care about you. So humans,

[20:38] Speaker 3: okay, okay, so you start by trying to scare us out with green eyes. See,

[20:42] Speaker 4: that was a no. I remember getting a note, and I don't I think this was back when, when I first did the show that green eyes is not meant to scare people. It's the easiest temptation to want to make that be the thing, like a boo moment, I was told it's not about scaring people. And Sarah, that's

[21:02] Speaker 3: good, that's good to know, and it makes sense, because then it's just like, hey, they're roaming around, and it's there, and you're

[21:08] Speaker 4: making it about the humans again, you it's easy to do that, and I think you need to steer away from that, because then that just gives it more of this there in our territory,

[21:28] Speaker 3: on an aisle, and I was so glad I was not on an aisle, and I purposely told the next the second time I came back a year later, I told my friend, I said, We're not sitting on an aisle. But of course, we sat, I think of the last row like a back row of something, and so then they're behind me jumping over. No, I like to watch the shows. I don't like to be in the shows

[21:50] Speaker 4: I get. I hate. It's Sarah said it too, but it's like as an audience member, I hate audience participation. As an actor, I love it. You just mess with people, and you get a break while it's a blast. I

[22:05] Speaker 3: get it. I didn't go into this show thinking I was gonna be that that case. And so for it to start that way, you know? And again, I saw matinee, the first time, I was not prepared for anything. I was gonna gonna happen. I really wasn't mentally there, and for it to start that way was, was not, not the way I expected. Yeah. I mean, again, like a great, a great indication, but also why I'm just like, children should not see this show. Yeah,

[22:32] Speaker 4: that's, that's very interesting to me. I And that's an interesting statement that I've heard you make a few times.

[22:37] Speaker 3: People are starting to get convinced me more of it as I've talked to other cast members and fans. There's just a lot. And maybe it's because I've read the story too, like I've read way too deep into it, but I'm but there's just a lot there. I'm like, All right, so that's definitely a prostitute that's definitely going to a brothel. This is an orgy, but it just clearly goes over the heads of kids. But there's

[23:02] Speaker 4: like, I mean, it's respectful, it's sensual, it's a sensual clump. It's not the like, insertion clump, you know, you don't talk about the violence that happens with Macavity. It's, you know, I think this is a bigger, a bigger discussion in the is it okay to bring up sensual, sexual things, if there are,

[23:25] Speaker 3: so there's, but then it's like, Macavity and Demeter are an abusive relationship. Yes, there's a kidnap Yes, of a of a sibling. Yeah,

[23:36] Speaker 4: that to me, that's more like a grad there's, and then there's like attacks on each other that's more aggressive and, I think, harsh than a than a sensual clump or a hip thrust.

[23:46] Speaker 3: It's just, it's, it's all together, you know, it's just like, there's, there's everything, like, we're, you can keep going, yes, okay, good point with every single thing here and again, I think a lot of it goes over a kid's head, and it's just like, oh, it's cats, it's cool. It's it's unbelievable talent and the makeup and the costumes and the set. It's all just like fascinating to watch. But there's, I mean, I could, I could write you 20 different things that are not PG, 13 topics in the show that that come up, that could keep coming up. So that's kind of been my stance. But at the same time, I'll probably at some point bring my niece or nephew or somebody to it well before they're supposed to see it.

[24:27] Speaker 4: I mean, it's the fascinating, like, thing with putting the show together is to, like, watch and watch people come into the show and have to just get comfy rubbing up on each other. And it's just, you just you just can't avoid it, like you just got to go there. And that's why, if it's a good company, it's, it's great, which I've been fortunate enough to, um, to work with good companies when I've done the show. But, um, yeah, you're out. You're up on each other,

[24:55] Speaker 3: yeah. So let's, let's jump into that in the family tree. So what do you. Is your relationship with Tugger? Is it is it friends? Is it brothers? Is there any relation? I

[25:05] Speaker 4: think there's, there's like a distant family connection. But I also think that there is some, some sexual activity that has happened over the years between the two of them, but I don't think that skimble would necessarily call him his friend. I think he would. You know, it's more of a can I say the F word on the show. Yeah. They're kind of like, random, weird fuck buddies that like after partying a little too hard at the end of the night. They're like, Oh, well, okay, just don't tell anybody. Yeah,

[25:39] Speaker 3: it's the opposites attract. Yeah, totally, okay, I can see that. And then so we, we've already discussed Jenny, and it's, I think your rumple teasers, uncle, that seems to be the consensus that, or

[25:52] Speaker 4: like, rump was a product of me and Jenny.

[25:57] Speaker 3: I mean, there's, there's a million ways I've tried to draw it out. I've had somebody send me their drawings of it, and there's, it's just a lot of dotted lines. That's what I've decided, is that there's no, there's no straight lines, like, there's a couple very clear we know, but then everything else is just like, look, they're in an orgy. It's probably, it could be any of the options.

[26:17] Speaker 4: And that's what I think a lot of the time. I think we lose track. But this was the

[26:21] Speaker 3: one that I think threw me off the most is, is it corpo cat? I don't want to pronounce this one again. This is how little I know about the non main characters, which is a problem for this show,

[26:33] Speaker 3: But it says it's your adopted son. Yeah. Where did you find that? What who said? Who says there's a there's a fan page, a fan Wikipedia page that has, it's, it's essentially Wikipedia for everything, and it's in there, there's, there's different rumor mills for everybody. And it's in there, it's just a line. There's no context. That's where I got a lot of these things. I was like, All right, let me try to fill in the blanks here, but I just can't get over the fact that adopted, you know, it's like, this is already a weird family tree. Now we're going to throw in some random adoption,

[27:04] Speaker 4: abandoned that's just random. Well, that's, that's what's weird, because corco Pat, corco Pat and tanta mile, which are sometimes unfortunately left out of productions. If it's like a scale production, they'll sometimes cut the twins, but they're the twins, and they're very, like, very, very psychic. They have a lot of, like, very psychic power. So if you look, there are a lot of the times, like the first ones that seal Deuteronomy, or they're like the connection, get syllable to sing, you know, at the top of the second act. So they're very kind of mystical. So I would have

[27:41] Speaker 3: they're also twins, and only one is adopted, yeah, split them up here. That's No, I don't know if, like, very cruel of you, I didn't skimble

[27:49] Speaker 4: wouldn't do that. Even he would, he'd be the dad to both of them. Yeah,

[27:53] Speaker 3: okay, watch that one. I think that we can throw that one out. Yeah, it was, again, there was not a lot in most of these rumors, and then, and then, for me, I'm watching either the movie or clips of songs and trying to fill in the blanks myself. And to you know, the point, I think, is like, I there's a lot of the cats I probably couldn't point out, if you line them up, because I just don't like, I'm not the super fan of the show. I'm not the one that like came in, I ended up here with a, you know, a joke that that has gone now 30 episodes, and I've loved it, and it's been fascinating to learn, but there's still a lot like I was looking up growl Tiger the other day, because I'm thinking about trying to maybe dig into that, And why was that whole number kind of canceled, and I was just like, I can't find much on it at all, and I don't know like, so I'm trying to fill in the blanks and the productions with very limited information, because I've not seen that number, because it's not in your show.

[28:53] Speaker 4: It's a little racially insensitive, yeah, which

[28:58] Speaker 3: is why. But it's like, it's one of those things that there's, and then you go into European productions and productions in Asia, where they're just flat out different characters added, and there's no, like, there's not productions for me to go watch. So I'm just kind of figuring this out on the fly, and I know there's a lot of stuff I got wrong, and honestly, I kind of like my version of it, so I'm sticking to it. I think you're

[29:23] Speaker 4: pretty spot on with a lot of stuff, though. Okay, I've been really impressed on kind of where and how you connect.

[29:29] Speaker 3: That's, that's the, I think the writer and the storyteller in me piecing together something that I again, have very little with. But was like, All right, here's what. I didn't have gripes when I left with the ending, and so I was like, I'm gonna rewrite parts of this. But what? Okay, so let's come back to the piece you want. What did you want me to know about the all the other cats I don't know anything about? Well, it

[29:50] Speaker 4: was specifically coracle Pat just because, you know, I because you had referenced before that he's just not, you know, I don't think he said he wasn't important. But. Very important. I think my very like is there the twins are like, the conduit energy to like, keep the psychic stuff going with all of us.

[30:10] Speaker 3: The none important to me. I just, I think there's no number, yes, centered around them, correct, which is probably again now they think back Hearing you say that that's like, such a bad way to think about it, because there's so much other like, incredible dancing and these other things, like, it's not diminishing the character, but from a storytelling standpoint, like, I hadn't thought about the that psychic piece coming through. So for me, they're just like, they're not progressing my the story, and especially my story, because they're not up right, competing, right? So they're just background dancers. They're, you know, I always joke, they're like the people coming on set, changing the stage for people, or, like, the, you know, if you're doing America's Got Talent or the voice, they've got some other singers joining them in, but they're not really competing. They're not the the one that you're going to vote on. But

[30:56] Speaker 4: there it's also, it's also like, one of the hardest the twins track. It's one of the hardest tracks in the show. It's, yeah, a friend of Yeah. That's

[31:07] Speaker 3: so and that's where I every time I talk to people in the show, or people who are just in general, in the industry, you would watch that show and notice those things. I'm gonna watch that show and say, That's really cool. Those were great dancers. But since that cat wasn't brought to the forefront of like, like, I remembered Mongo J and ripple teaser, because you just sang the names over and over again, and it's like, they're those other cats don't resonate in that fashion, if you're just watching it from that angle, yeah? So as a fan, that's where I'm just like, yeah, they're just, I don't even know who they are, right, right, correct, but, but the junkyard does so like, there's, there's groups of people who do know, and there are other people who are in the industry who are gonna be like, Yes, I understand that track. Or that's like, there are pieces I'll never know someone I, I think it was Regina. She like, told me a dance cow. I'm like, Cool. Like, I have no idea talking about, like, I appreciate that you, that you recognize this and other people listening to this, will it was, it was right over my head. I have no idea what, but I so okay, I the only other part of your song I wanted to ask you about is the sneeze.

[32:19] Speaker 4: Yeah, she's playing along. She's playing along with storytelling.

[32:23] Speaker 3: Okay, so this is all goes back to like you're telling the story. That's why you take your pants off. That's what you do like and it's the playful aspect that is. It's the playful aspects with the being on time. It's kind of giving both sides of the personality Exactly.

[32:35] Speaker 4: And I think he is, he's a storyteller. I think that, again, that's why the kittens really like him. He does this a lot with them, and they're there. That's why, you know, when I was like, Oh God, is skimble the creepy uncle, and I've just thought that I've, like, I'm the sweet character the whole time. And so I really, like, looked into myself and looked in but no, they're because they're enjoying

[32:56] Speaker 3: that. Okay, yeah, I could see that. I definitely can see that, I think deep down inside

[33:01] Speaker 4: the performers are dreading that number, and they hate that number. And I didn't realize that, because it's up and it's fun, but it's kind of only up and fun for skimble. The rest of them, they have to carry. I mean, those train pieces, some of them so awkward, so heavy you're holding them. Where do you have to spin it with one foot through the spokes, you know? So I think, I think you're, you're loving it number, they hate the number, but skimble loves it as as the performers, not as the cats. I think the

[33:30] Speaker 3: cat. Yeah, that makes sense. That definitely makes sense. I pointed, I point the light at me. That's what I really wanted. I know it's not, you know, who's

[33:37] Speaker 4: the track that does the light? Yeah, I think that was a bad design. I don't support that. Mike. I actually feel really bad about that, because I

[33:45] Speaker 3: want to know, because I felt like they just angled it, like it was, like, I see this guy, it's really I'm gonna hit on. But it was, yeah, it was a lot, and it didn't happen the second time, okay, but it was, it was it was, it was an experience. And it was coming right off of, I, like, was again, at that point, I'm starting to kind of grasp my own take of, like, here's what's happening. And then I am ready. I'm like, Oh, this is awesome. Look at this train. And then it's just like, boom. Couldn't even see it. And I, you know, you can, you have to tell me, I don't remember what was next, because I think I was, like, taken aback by it. Like, I don't know what happens there. It's towards the end, but

[34:24] Speaker 4: the train falls apart. And it's like, oh no, but then on to the next it's gonna be okay. I'll skimble and his train. See again, even then, like, there's these little cracks of where, like, it's a little odd that skimbles Train fell apart. That doesn't go with simple. I think,

[34:47] Speaker 3: I think there's some, yeah, there's, there's some holes in my episode. Very clearly, and you know, I'm, I'm aware that there are probably a lot more. I usually ask the super fans. My favorite thing is, what did I get wrong? Like, where did I really miss? And so I love hearing these things of where, because it's the beauty of the show is that there's not a direct path anyone's like, I walked down. I thought that there are some consensuses and some stuff that, like, it seems right, but there's a lot where you can just be like, No, I'm sorry. This is how I interpreted it. And there's only, probably, what, three people. There's like, any blanket viewer, Andrew Weber, a couple other people that maybe like, was like, This is how I intended it. And no one else in the world can answer this question. And so I like the fact that I can kind of say, No, I got a creepy uncle vibe. But now that you're explaining it to me, I'm like, Oh no, that's wholesome. That's not creepy uncle vibe, right,

[35:39] Speaker 4: right? Well, I mean, it's, it's the genius of, I think Jillian Lynn as well, the choreographer, the original choreographer is, and unfortunately, I never got the chance to work with her specifically. But you get these things obviously passed down to you. And every, at least the original choreography, every move is has a dramatic intention behind it, which I like that. You know, I didn't grow up as a ballet dancer and all that. I kind of played catch up as a dancer as a growing up. But I do click with narrative dancing, or dramatic kind of storytelling with the moves and stuff, and I mean things like titties to the wind, and that's like, you face, right? But hearing, you know, and because she was Jillian, Lynn, was also very sensual. And, you know, had a bit of a mouth on her, from what I understand. But that where it looks like, oh, turn to the right. If you think titties to the wind, it's, it gives it a whole new air about it. So that whole piece, having all of that stuff to it, I just, I love that

[36:48] Speaker 3: there is, again, this all goes back to these are things that, as a performer and someone who's trained in this, you're gonna recognize, right and appreciate, and as someone who's not, it's not that I don't appreciate it or perform. It's just, it's just I don't even, it just doesn't resonate. I don't even capture that. I just am seeing these other pieces. Well,

[37:07] Speaker 4: I don't think it's necessarily, I don't think it needs to be known from it to an audience standpoint. I mean, it's like they don't need to know that. That's titties to the wind. That's, it's amongst many other movements, you know. So, you know, I think it's we can have our secrets as performers, and I don't think you always need to know what we're thinking and what we're doing and why, or maybe at least what, why we're doing things. But again, you mix that in within this show that then is all poetry, and with all this choreography, it's like, of course people are going to go out there and be like, What the hell was that? Which I again, I love, I love that people get. So you're a perfect example where you're like, I don't even know, and like, I don't even know if you like it or if you don't like it, but yet, you're doing this podcast on it, and you're going in, so I don't, I don't know if you're a fan of the show or not, and that's, it's almost not even important, or it because it's, it's this fascination that brought you to then do this podcast on a show that you may or may not even like. Like, What an odd show to bring that and stir that up in people

[38:20] Speaker 3: is, the most usually, when I walk out of and I, and this is a me thing, I'm very aware of this. I I'm I don't usually walk out and say I didn't like something or I hated it. There's things I'm just like, this wasn't really my cup of tea. But I don't usually be like, I want my two hours back. And so it's very rare. Like, I've never walked out of a movie. I very rarely will turn something off, like, I'll usually just watch it in completion. Yeah, you know, I'm fairly easily entertained. This is one of the few shows where I everyone seems to have an opinion on it, and it's kind of wild that there's, like, there's huge hate towards it or huge love towards it. And I don't fall on either of those. I've fallen a fascination of the story and one, one very specific angle of it, which I think is also, again, cool that like that I can have this passion to this one thing. And there's 40 years of history for us to explore it. Why there's enough there for us to have this, like these conversations, yeah, but there are people who are adamant that it's team Gus, there are people who are adamant that, like, it's perfect, as is, there should be no wrong, that no people are very get upset if you and Tugger really do have the relationship, or if there's some, like, those cats aren't supposed to be friends, and it's like, well, they're friends off stage, so they're gonna Have some they're definitely gonna have some like, friendship on stage, even though those cats maybe shouldn't be. And that, to me, is just like a fascinating piece. I don't really and I wouldn't do this, but I would always love to know, like, if you and I went to see a different show, just any random show, I probably would walk out and say, Oh, that's fun. And you probably would be like, Oh, I love that certain number or that song, like you would I. Appreciate pieces to it more than I would. I would mostly just be like, that looked really difficult to do. If it was a number or, like, right? That was impressive. Or I like, I can't hit that note. That's like, I can't hear any note. But like, I most people can't hit that note. But there's been plenty of shows where I'll hear people who are very knowledgeable, and they'll be like, Oh, that was a disaster. I'm like, you know, I mean, my, my lottery ticket was fine, like, I enjoyed myself. And

[40:24] Speaker 4: that's, I think that's the beauty of audiences, is that it's not one or the other. You know, you I had a director one time tell us he's like, you'll be doing a show, and someone in the front row will be having the time of their life, and their lives changed by your performance, and the person sitting right next to them will want to kill themselves at the same time because they show so much. I'm paraphrasing. It was actually much more eloquent. But you know that same idea where it's like and both audience members, to me, are important. You know,

[40:59] Speaker 3: it's, wild, and I think it's different when it's live, too. And I've said this a lot because I'm much more, much more of a sports fan, and so like, I will recognize as a hockey player, as you know, someone who grew up playing most sports and played a lot of hockey, that there are things I'm like, oh, that player is doing that. It's completely not important to what you would think as a non fan, but I know that if that player doesn't do that, something else doesn't happen and this whole thing that falls apart. That's what I don't have in the theater world. I don't need those things. Do

[41:30] Speaker 4: you look for those moments like you're searching those out, or you're watching it from kind of like, like a beginning to finish, and then those things may come up and get your attention? Or are you looking at it from a like, I want to see this play, I want to see this player. I want to see this

[41:44] Speaker 3: I usually go in like, like a movie in the sense of, like, I'm going there to be entertained with the story. Now sports games, and then sports games, oh, and so, I mean, I started playing hockey I was three years old. I've still played to this day. And, no, I watched that. But there are things that like as a player, and I think there you, if you've played at a high level, in any of these things, there are things where you appreciate and you understand and you watch and you just see it because you've coached. I mean, I've coached and done a lot with it, but there's a few things where it'll happen in the game, and it's happened so fast that an average person who doesn't watch or doesn't play wouldn't pick up on that and but it's so important to either the way that they're playing the game or the way that they're this particular movements happening, and there's some beauty into it. And so I recognize that that is the same thing that I'm witnessing in the theater world, but I don't know enough about it because I haven't had like, coaching or someone being like, no, you've got to be over there, or you've got to be doing this, or you have to do this particular motion for that to make sense, because I'm just watching it as a person, just being What's the story? Tell me the story. Like, I might pick up a thing or two. I've started to pick up more on sets like I've really liked seeing, Oh, that's kind of cool how that's coming in and that's going out and that's coming up. But there's a lot of times, like with the other cats, where to your point, with the the twins, I never would have noticed that, like peace, that that seems like they're the first ones to recognize, the first ones to notice the first one's a turn, and that's thought through, like that's definitely thought about. But as an audience member, it's just like I was against I was so confused with this show the first time I saw that I didn't pick up any of it. But even now, if I like watched the movie again, I don't think I would have pieced that together.

[43:25] Speaker 4: I think there are still, there are even performers that wouldn't even piece that together. You know, cats is unique, like that. I think where it is hard to get those specifics, and it's definitely something that's been passed down, you know, but then you some, I would be shocked sometimes with these super fans, that they would know some of these relationships. And I'm like, How did you know that there's nothing in the script that says that this connection happens in the back, you know? So it's, it's fascinating, but you know, also, also to your point about how one maybe watches a show. I think it can sometimes be a detriment as an actor, you know, or dance, or whatever, when they we I think we can sometimes fall victim to dissecting it too much. I've definitely had moments where I'm like, yo boy. Stop trying to look at this so technically, step back. Have a little bit of innocence. Realize you know, where you are, what's happening. You're stepping into a theater, you're going to escape, chill out, you know? And I think a lot of performers do that. They they end up being miserable, and they almost lose the love of theater because they're watching it so technically, and they're looking for something that is wrong or that it's like, oh, they sing it like this, versus like, Give it, give it a chance.

[44:44] Speaker 3: It is a little bit of it is a part your job, you know, like, and so you do take it from a different angle, correct? Because you're, you're watching that of, you know, this is, you know, the ins and outs of the industry, right? That most of us don't, right? Yeah. So Okay, before we go to my rapid fire, and of course, my final question, what is there anything else you that that you think I missed? Because I think it's I'm very excited to hear some of the things you've changed my mind on in a good way.

[45:16] Speaker 4: What was your you had an issue with the writing. There's something that you didn't like in the in the skimble number that they changed because he changed Angelo, whoever changed a lyric from

[45:31] Speaker 3: the Yeah, so I it's a it was a weird choice. It was like every other one, when they changed the poems to the songs had, like, very deliberate, like, I had to cut out a couple lines, like, it was very clear, or I maybe change. This was just like, a couple words change, but had no real change in the lyric or the storytelling or anything else. And it wasn't like, the only thing is maybe when I thought about it more, because I reread through everything, and kind of listened back to the episode that it was, maybe it was have to do with, like, how they actual scored the number differently, but it seemed like it wasn't so significant. That was like you couldn't fit those words into the score, like you couldn't make that work, like there's no need to do that, and they still did it. I

[46:17] Speaker 4: appreciate that observation. Yeah, I love that you picked that up. Oh, I do. I did what. There was something else, Peter. I'm so fascinated by your fascination with Peter. I it's just, it's strange to me. I'm going to help you out with something so in the naming of cats, which you've heard, it's, it's one of the hardest things to memorize. There are three different names, three names, yeah. Okay, so has someone talked to

[46:48] Speaker 3: you about this? Yes, but I still so someone tried to explain it to me in the sense. So I'll let you keep going, because I think I want to hear your version of it. There's the three names,

[46:58] Speaker 4: right? There's like, the common name, and that can be like, you know, Peter, and maybe there's been a few different cats named Peter. And then there's the name that no other cat has, so that's like, a misnomer strap. Then there's the name that you just don't even it's, it's all site, it's just, it's like, we can't even understand it as

[47:20] Speaker 3: humans. Yeah, I someone has tried to explain this me, where are the other Peters? Like, where are the other common names?

[47:27] Speaker 4: Like those characters, yeah, like

[47:30] Speaker 3: everybody else, the part I pulled out is that there's, I understand now that there's, and I didn't when I first got obsessed with this, but I understand now that there are the three names and that this is the common one, right? But there are not other common names. And for some reason, Peter still gets to go on stage and dance in the opening number. So does Bill Bailey. So okay, so Bill, I guess one other one,

[47:59] Speaker 3: it's not, it's not in any other productions, really. Peter's not. He doesn't have, again, that Wikipedia page. I finally did a Peter episode just to make it at myself. And there that the Wikipedia page has, like, 4000 pages worth of stuff, and they don't have a Peter page. There's not one, but there are some pictures, and I know it's part of the GUS bus track, and I've got my made up stories for where they are, but I mean, it's, it's very clear that they just needed another body for the opening number, and that name is in the poem, and there it is. But I just think it's like, there's, there's not enough common names for me. And it was like, Why was this one picked and really stuck with Yeah,

[48:44] Speaker 4: I get it, but I wrote my own story for Peter. I'm gonna have to listen to that one.

[48:48] Speaker 3: There's no way. I'm right. I'm very, very aware of this. I don't think anybody's ever thought to that level of Peter. But I gave him a backstory. I gave my opinion on it, but

[49:01] Speaker 4: maybe that's what Peter needs. And then in future production is a production, someone is gonna have listened to that, and Peter is gonna get a feature I

[49:09] Speaker 3: want to know more and about. And this is in my in my Peter episode, but there's a, I forget where in Asia there isn't a Gilbert. And Gilbert has a page, but Peter doesn't, and it's only in like, one or two productions. Yeah, I feel like, and I want to know more about Gilbert, but I don't have, I don't have the capacity to try to figure out. It took me a long time to figure out Peter. Yeah, I think stick with Peter. That's a lot. So let's go into rapid fire. Yes, you've played a lot of the cats, but usually, who would you want to play? So if you were, I'm going to take Tugger out of it, because I think we've established very clearly that that's what you you want to play in in your next Jellicle life. But, but what would be like? What's another cat? Like? What's another track? You. Didn't, either didn't get the chance to do or only did as a swing a couple times that you would want to do. It's funny because

[50:05] Speaker 4: tumble Brutus I was thrown on in, like, an Emergency, emergency, Emergency, emergency situation. I loved. I didn't really tumble. I did. I had it was horrible. I did a somersault, like the final bow, and I was like, This is what I got. The cast loved that one, but I really liked playing him. Oddly enough, he's a little he's a shit like, you know, and he's got really great makeup. His colors were my colors, so that was nice. Tumble I guess if I could tumble,

[50:44] Speaker 3: it would be okay. I like this question because I like what a lot of people have answered, what they like can't do. It's like, either they're not physically that character or something, or they have that skill. So I love that answer. I think that's fun. And again, another cat I know very little about.

[51:01] Speaker 4: Yeah, I am. I think Bomb, bomb ballerina would be really fun, too. That's

[51:07] Speaker 3: it's become my favorite song. It's a good song in the whole thing. Who's your favorite and least favorite cat, not character cat,

[51:16] Speaker 4: oddly enough, so I hate tumble Brutus as a cat. He's just a little shit. And my favorite, you know, I like, I like Electra. She's, yeah, I don't know if she'd be my favorite, but I like her and, and I like, I mean, like, Gus,

[51:34] Speaker 3: Gus. I mean, this is great, yeah, favorite song,

[51:41] Speaker 4: The Old Deuteronomy, when all Deuteronomy enters Old Deuteronomy. Okay, it's like that. I just think it's some of the most beautiful music I have, Kristen blodgets cut offs ingrained in my head, and and monk and and Tugger sing this. Really, these beautiful, beautiful lines. So, and I think that's the other thing that people don't realize is that cats is a hard fucking show to sing. You know, it is intense, that score is intense. And you were singing the whole time you're screaming your face off, there's booth singers. You know, everyone is singing on stage and they screaming their faces off,

[52:17] Speaker 3: yeah, the booth singers thing was fascinating to me, like that. It's so difficult. And that was the when I left, the first time I walked out and I said, that was an impressive feat, like story, whatever, everything else that kind of went through my mind, and that was just an impressive thing to watch. I

[52:34] Speaker 4: don't know if you'll find this interesting or entertaining, but I so after so after I left the show is skimble, they brought me back to cover Rum Tum, Tugger, munch strap and skim bowl, and then I would sing in the booth.

[52:51] Speaker 3: Oh, wait, yeah, yep, did I cut out? No, okay,

[52:57] Speaker 4: so I came back to cover monkey strap, skim bowl and Tugger and then sing in the booth. And there was a show where I was going into work, and I had, I had a kitten that we had adopted at home, right kind of at the beginning of when I joined the company. Really great cat, Tito. And I get a call from my my partner, that he had choked on a chicken bone and they were rushing him to the hospital. So as the beginning notes of the show start, I see that they're taking my cat into the hospital, and they need me to come because they don't know if he's going to make it. So I had to through a glass pane, mimic my cat is choking on a chicken bone. I have to leave and I have to get the swing down here to sing, you know, and Kristen blah just, you know. And I had to run out, and Tito didn't make it. Oh no, died as I was doing cats. It was traumatic. It was horrible. And I probably shouldn't say this, but I wanted to spread his ashes on the tire, but I didn't get him cremated in time before we closed. I didn't get his so I have this desire to still find a company of cats that I can spread my dead.

[54:28] Speaker 3: I was expecting this like, Oh, and, you know, and he survived, and this happened. This one dark. It was darker than the show, oh,

[54:36] Speaker 4: my God. The next day at work was the most horrible thing. Singing that end song about sending your cat, or about your cats ascending to heaven, or cat heaven, it was day

[54:51] Speaker 4: That's this show runs very deep. That's that's

[54:56] Speaker 3: a layer that I did not expect. I'm telling you, that's a whole. Other layer. I did not realize that there's possibly cast members sprinting out to take care of their own actual cat. Well, you know, I tried to, I mean, that's a crazy story. I'd like to say,

[55:13] Speaker 4: you know, if he was sick or whatever, I wouldn't have left, but he was, he was dying and croaking, and they needed to pull the corn on him. Wow, yeah. But that was a moment where I was like, Oh my God, oh shit. Like people are coming here who are maybe, like, you know, they're mourning over their their dead animals, their dead cats and stuff like that, with this whole thing with, like, ascension up. I'm like, this maybe was a, maybe that's a nice moment for these people. You know, they're kind of the little cathartic cat.

[55:41] Speaker 3: I hope that somebody then got the pun. I got the pun. It was perfect. I hope that somebody went to see the show, to mourn their cat and walked out feeling better than they walked in. I don't, I mean, I don't want to say that there's, I don't, it seems like a low probability. There's a lot of people with cat. It's run for 40 years. It's had to have happened some point. Yes, I will say, if somebody is listening, and they went to see the show and it solved your it was the last stage of your grief. Yes, I would love to talk to you and hear your story. All right, let's ask. I'm gonna ask my final question, which is, you've clearly heard my arguments against Grizabella. I think there's I've heard some compelling arguments for her, and I I'm not ready to change the name of my podcast and change the whole show, but I definitely think that there's more merit there than I've give credit. So do you want to argue for her, or do you think it should be somebody else? I

[56:46] Speaker 4: mean, it's, you know, this has been really hard for me, Mike, I've been going through who I think should have gotten picked if it wasn't for Grizabella, and immediately went on the Gus, jumped on the GUS train, and then heard who, I just have to say, Christopher Gore was so amazing in the show. I just he was such a pleasure to work, to watch every night where that number can, if it's the person's not, great can be hell you're on stage for a long time. So the side note, but then I heard his whole thing with, like, him and old dude, and I was like, oh, that's fascinating. Okay, I get that.

[57:17] Speaker 3: It almost bothered me, because it was, it was such a compelling argument against it, and everybody was argued for him. And I was just like, I when I heard it, I was like, Why did you gotta ruin it? Like that was at least my other argument, and he just ruined it. Well, that's

[57:30] Speaker 4: why, that's why I hate working with Christopher Gert, because he's too good of an actor. Ruins all that stuff by justifying things. But I so it's been really, I've been running through my brain, okay? Who is it okay? Who would it be okay? I think more so than Grizabella is Victoria, the white cat. She's the one that initiates the gesture of forgiveness, or whatever you want to call it, but she goes, and she's the first cat that touches Now, granted, old dude, I think, does maybe a little bit of a cue. But it's like, you know, we've, we've witnessed Victoria, throughout this show, go through these changes and and all this stuff, which, you know, I was told once that there's a Victoria, the dance solo in the beginning, you know, is all about her becoming a woman, you know, and her going through, which I just think is beautiful and lovely. So I think I don't know if I'm 100% with that, but because Christopher, Christopher ger ruined all of that, I might say Victoria is a little bit more deserving than Grizabella. I get grizabella's trials and tribulations, but really she came back and did what just came back. I don't mean machine. You lived a rough life.

[58:49] Speaker 3: And the point is, is that at least this mammy's argument of or not, maybe I don't think she made this argument, but everyone makes the argument for her is that her building out memory is deserving of winning. But I've not heard of Victoria argument, so I kind of like it.

[59:08] Speaker 4: She says, she screams, touch me. She screams, it screams, Victoria is the one that touches her. She's, she says she's, yeah, Chris grizzly Bell is just like, somebody touch me. Like, really loud. Why does that then grant someone the the prize of the heavy side layer?

[59:26] Speaker 3: I like it. I've not heard of Victoria argument, so I'm, I'm just happy to have somebody else agree it's not Grizabella. I don't

[59:33] Speaker 4: think it's Grizabella. I don't again, I don't know if I'm 100% in agreement that it's Victoria, but I think that that might be the one that's hedging a little bit

[59:42] Speaker 3: ahead. I think what I've really learned is there needs to be a catch two,

[59:45] Speaker 4: yes, but the return, the return,

[59:49] Speaker 3: like the second, the second act, the you know now that Grizzle is done and out

[59:58] Speaker 3: that's what I want to see. I'm not calling. Find to write it or perform it. I've, uh, yeah, I mean, it's, it's season two, if the, if I was writing it, either way be not, not the the sequel. So, um, before we wrap up, I want to know what are you No,

[60:15] Speaker 4: I don't want to talk about cats forever. No one will do this with me. Mike, I

[60:20] Speaker 3: do find it fascinating that a lot of your cast is just like, yes, I would love to, because no one wants to ever talk about this ever again.

[60:26] Speaker 4: No, no, this is, this is not normal. We're not able to have these conversations with I'm glad

[60:30] Speaker 3: I'm filling a void that I don't think a lot of people realize needed to be filled. But I want to hear what are you working on these days?

[60:40] Speaker 4: Yeah, so Broadway shut down. We got out of there because our landlords wouldn't give us a break on our rent, and we can't really get in. We're not getting any help elsewhere. So we gave up our keys to the apartment, and we moved to this great place about two hours outside of the city, paying so much less than I do in the city. But while it shut down, came up here and a good friend lives nearby, and we started a production company called the fact Yeah. We in August, we produced a very safe, distant and masked Dance Festival at the Forestburg Playhouse, which was awesome. We sold that out, which was really cool and just really special, to be able to get back on stage and bring up some local choreographers from the city and get a collaborate. And then in October, we produced a haunted hotel, which was super cool with like live performance. And then, you know, lot of dance kind of elements within that, in the storytelling. So we kind of are watering that. So how can people

[61:47] Speaker 3: find out more about it, or about other things you're producing? Just go,

[61:52] Speaker 4: I guess, Oh, I'm so bad with that the fat. Just keep an eye out for good. We have an Instagram account.

[62:06] Speaker 4: January 1, 2021 will have a website. So go to the fet.com

[62:12] Speaker 3: in 2021 the fed.com this will, should release in in next year. So go to the fed.com and not yet, and learn more, and how can we find you on social media? I guess maybe this is a dangerous question now,

[62:27] Speaker 4: oh, you're gonna It's, I'm this asshole. So it's Colin, C, O, L, I N, underscore Hollis, H, O, L, L, I S, underscore Shannon, S, H, A, N, N, O N, Colin Hollis, Shannon, okay,

[62:46] Speaker 3: Instagram is that all of them? I'm

[62:49] Speaker 4: only on Instagram. Only on Instagram. Okay, just joined a few years ago.

[62:56] Speaker 3: Sounds like you're active? Well, we'll send people to the fat.com in 2021 yeah, why don't you visit me on that Instagram too. On Instagram. Alan Shannon, amazing. Well, thank you for being a amazing guest. Thank you for changing our mind on skimble, not skim I definitely there's, there's some things. There's no way we're going in and editing the episode, so it's gonna live out there that way. But now people can listen to this one, and no, it's not the creepy uncle vibe. It's the fun uncle, not skim skimball. Plenty other things that are there. And I love the Victoria argument, just because I don't think I've had enough people try to make it. And so I just love any, anytime it's not Grizabella, it's like it's a good episode for me.

[63:51] Speaker 3: Well, thank you for listening to this episode with Colin Cunliffe on the rock at died the podcast breakdown, the catastrophe, to follow along. You can subscribe on Apple podcast, Spotify, Stitcher, or anywhere else you listen to podcasts, follow us on Twitter and Instagram at the wrong cat died. Or check out our website, the wrong cat died.com. You.