This transcript was automatically generated and might contain errors.

[0:00] Speaker 1: Hi, I'm Ariana Grande. Hi, I'm Cynthia Erivo, and you're listening to the Broadway Podcast Network, visit vpm.fm to discover more.

[0:13] Speaker 2: There's a cat over here. There's a cat over there. I'm the one good night. I'm the one good night. I welcome

[0:20] Speaker 3: to

[0:30] Speaker 4: the wrong cat died the podcast breakdown, the catastrophe. I'm your host, Mike Abrams, and today we have an amazing guest. She has been in two different productions of cats, including playing Grizabella in the 2007 US tour. So welcome Tricia tan guy, and thank you for joining me.

[0:45] Speaker 5: Hello. Hello everyone. How are we? I

[0:49] Speaker 4: love talking to grizzabellas Because you're the thesis of my entire podcast, and we'll get there. But I want to start with just I love starting with cat's history, because I feel like there's a wide range of everyone who saw it growing up, or saw the DVD or the VHS or some level of something, way before I was introduced to it in my life. So I'd love to hear, kind of, when you were introduced to the show, and kind of, what were your thoughts?

[1:15] Speaker 5: Oh my gosh. Well, I just have to say that, honestly, this show has like, like everyone. It's crazy that I was actually born the same year that the original company opened on Broadway in 1983 so there you go. Everyone. I am 37 years old. So right away that, just to me, was always a really special connection to kind of, know, we all came into this world at the same exact time. Um, so yeah, I think, like a lot of kids that end up being in theater, I was obsessed with, you know, music and Disney and all those things, and so with cats in particular. I guess I probably definitely saw the video, of course, the VHS that we all kind of iconically remember. And think of those of us that are old enough to know the VHS version. So I think I definitely did that. And I'm sure I was leaping around my living room and dancing to it, and just in utter awe and just the out of the beauty of it all, and just what a spectacle it was. So yeah, but then my real, I mean, the first time I did this was when I was on the tour in 2007 2008 I definitely never in my mind. Had originally thought, Oh, I could definitely see myself doing cats. But then, when I was on another tour the year before, and then I saw that they were actively seeking replacements for the tour in 2007 I thought, Oh my gosh. Well, why? Why not? Wow. What an iconic show, what an iconic role, of course, like, why wouldn't I allow myself the opportunity to go in for something like that? So that's when I went in for the audition. And from the moment I walked in the door on that first day of rehearsal, I knew what an immense just, it was such a it was so I was such a thing to do out of respect. And just, it's an amazing torch to carry, you know, yeah, I never doubted that for a second. And I was always so proud, and it was such an honor to do that. So I think of anything that's the one thing I've always really cherished about cats, is knowing what a legacy it became, and that all of us who have kind of been in some way shape, you know, in any way, shape or form, whether you've done it locally, in a regional or community theater production, or if you've done it on a tour in a different country or on Broadway, it doesn't matter that there's this really special essence about cats that really makes it unique and beautiful. So it's

[3:35] Speaker 4: a big Jellicle family that I've heard that from a few people that's like, you're fraternity or but it's like, it's some it's a family. It's like you've been through the same thing together, and there's like, a, you know, the experience, and it's experience, but so you don't have a, like, a visceral memory of seeing it as a kid or anything. It's just like, you know, you kind of came in for the audition knowing about it. You knew you'd seen it, but it wasn't like I saw it when I was 10, you know, or I have like, this exact memory of when and

[4:05] Speaker 5: where. No, I really and that's a sad thing, because I was such a theater kid. I was obsessed with theater. I love I live in. I grew up in Cleveland, Ohio, and we always used to go and see the national tours when they came through, and I would sit on the edge of my seat. I mean, like my mom has this glorious story of me when Peter Pan came through, I stood up at intermission, and I literally threw out my arms and I went, I'm flying, and I almost took out the woman next to me, and my mom grabbed my arms. She fell sweet. You almost smacked her in the face. Sit down. Sit down. We'll talk when we get home. So I just always love theater, and I it almost makes me wonder, like I wonder what I would have been like as a kid having had that live cats experience, because I'm sure it would have been so magical. And luckily, I've had that. I've seen how kids respond, and it's such a special gift that we get to give, and we see what how we're impacting, especially little kids.

[4:55] Speaker 4: It's so cool. It's cool that you've gotten to see that, because I've said a lot in this past. Podcast that I don't think it's for children, and it's because I think I've analyzed this way too deep, and I know more about like, the potential backstory of what these things are like, abusive relationships, potential sex work, an orgy is the ball like these themes are probably not kid friendly. But then at the same time, now I'm starting to slowly come around to, like, if you just ignore that and just watch it, it can bring the joy. So it's kind of interesting. You say that, Oh, for

[5:30] Speaker 5: sure. Well, and two, I think it's become such a generational piece, you know, like I said, the show started in 19 like, we know, it started in 1983 so at this point, you know, even in my age range, people are who grew up being kids and seeing the show. Now they're coming with their parents and their children, and you have three generations of people sitting in that row who all have some magical connection with the show or don't, and they're experiencing it for the first time. So it is really neat to know that it is there are very few shows I think that really bridge that gap between the generations and that a whole family can go and sit and have some kind of a great experience that, and I think this is, again, it's one of the things that I think has made given this show longevity, it's the something that makes the show really special and unique. And yeah, cats will never die. It's true.

[6:20] Speaker 4: They'll never go the heavy side, land be reborn. No, the it is very true, because in my first time seeing it was in 2016 as an adult. You know, I was also born in the 80s, but did not grow as a theater kid. Did not go like, I mean, I went to the touring productions in the Midwest as well. But definitely wasn't this like on my radar or anything. Was just like, we went and we saw the Lion King. We saw these things as they came through. But when I went, I was, I think I was almost just as fast as I was a little horrified as that kids were around me, because I was, like, terrified when green eyes came through and, like, as an adult. But then I kept, like, looking around. There's a lot of international tourists that were there, and I was like, this is the right show to see, if you like, you know, if English isn't a first language, or you don't really even understand language, you don't need to to really follow the show, because I understand language and didn't follow the show for a while. Still have researched it and recorded 30 plus episodes on this and still not sure I could say follow the show. But I kind of, I kind of do love that. So you audition in 2007 you you land. You land. The role of Grizabella. Mm, hmm. You told I love to hear. What were you told about her character? Yeah. Well,

[7:30] Speaker 5: I again will say I feel fortunate that even in 2007 I was doing the tour, I was working with Richard Stafford, who was the dance supervisor for the Broadway company. And had been in the original Broadway company as Kimball Shanks, and then also to cover most awfully and then Kristen Blodgett was my musical supervisor, who is, you know, the second to Andrew Lloyd Webber. You know, everything he touches, she works on. So I, at that age, I was 24 playing Grizabella, and here I was working with Kristen Blodgett, and having one on one coachings with her, you know, so and then fast forward again to the revival company, and then the the national tour. And I'm working with Kristen again. So I feel very fortunate that I was very close with them, knowing that they were really close to the original material, so that it wasn't, you know, again, because again, however you look at cats, it can kind of almost be put through a filter, in a way, because I don't want to say watered down, because that's a bad way to that seems like it's negating it. But in a way, the more hands it passes through, the less authentic it can seem. I in Sup, I guess I don't want to thumb it down, but you know what I mean, as you it passes down, it can become less of what the original religion

[8:52] Speaker 5: So I was like, wow. So here I am working with the Kristen Blodget and Richard Stafford, giving me this material, holy cow. But again, a set of 24 year old ears was hearing it, and a 24 year old who at that point in my life, yes, I'd lived through things, but it wasn't the same as fast forward when I was 36 and seeing it now through those eyes and that lived experience. So and again, this, malleable way of finding moments that we, of course, all learn when we go to school, if you go to school for a theater and acting like finding even if you haven't lived through it yourself, finding things within it that is going to bring the reality to you, so that through you, you're bringing the most sincere performance and reality to the people who are living through this in a living, breathing theater experience. So, yeah, so with Grizabella, you know, it was like knowing, really, for her, just channeling, like, what? What is it that she's been through? Like, how does it, you know, what is, how does she have strength, knowing that when she enters a room, everyone, not only do they turn their back, but they're aggressive, they're nasty. They don't like her, they don't. Want her there, and how much courage and strength that takes to be able to walk into a room like that. And I think they're in some whether it's a big or small way. I think a lot of us have been in those positions. You know that we can relate where you've walked into a room and you haven't necessarily, you're like, oh, I don't know anybody at this party, I feel kind of strange. I should leave. Or you come in and say, You know what? I'm gonna have fun regardless I'm coming in because I have every right to be here, right? So I think at 24 that's kind of where, you know, finding her quiet strength that she has, of knowing that she did have every right to be in there simply because she exists. And so being able to come into the space and allowing that, and then again, like not feeling like it was she had to be so tough, but just knowing that she was enough. So I think that's always been a really interesting side. And keeping with, I don't want to say her humanity, because she is a cat, but that human trait that we can relate to,

[10:56] Speaker 4: yeah, and you know, it's, there's, there's so many layers to the show, and I like, love hearing that, and like the the thought behind that, of like, the emotional connection to what grizzabel is bringing to the story. And then here I am looking at it being like, what happened? Like, what Where did she go before she came back? And less about the emotional connection to it, and more been like, Why did she leave backstory? And that's how I've, like, looked at every character, and then from the lens I've kind of taken and so I've always been fascinated by, like, what you've been told about it. And if you're not told anything, it's just like, hey, here's the emotional connection of, like, the what you should be feeling. Ultimately, where I am curious is, were you ever given that backstory, or did were you given more of the emotional pieces of like, how to play the character, but not necessarily like, this is why Grizabella left, and here's where she went, and here's where she's gonna come back. Because I have theories, but I'm always been curious if there's an answer to my theories. Oh

[11:55] Speaker 5: yes and no. I mean, I I have this wonderful voice memo recording that I and I'm wishing I had listened to it today, because I haven't listened to it in a while. I'd love to have it fresh in my head. But Chrissy Cartwright, who was Jillian Lynn's assistant, who's brilliant, she's from England, she's wonderful. We worked with her with revival tour, and she I really was fortunate to sit in the room with her while she worked with Kara Renee fuller me, and Maria, who was the other cover with me, and we sat there and just got to watch Chrissy talk through memory and her entrance all the way through. And I just was like, pull out your voice memo, Trisha, take it out and record this right now, so I have a little voice memo and just kind of, you know, this idea of her, like, you know, she has every ounce of strength she needs just to walk through the room. So that's why her pace is very slow. It's almost like she's walking on eggshells, because every step she takes is guarded and painful and difficult, and she's reserving every ounce of strength that she can So and, I mean, she, she talks through the whole thing about, you know, just, and she would coach us through, like, as we were singing, she would kind of like throw in little things to us, to kind of take in as we continue to do the material. So that was, that was amazing. But what's interesting is we would do that. But then when we would go through a run through and we did it another way, we didn't always have to do it exactly, because what was most important was living in that moment, depending on what we were given. Because, again, it's life theater. And you know what? Today, I might glance over and Tugger might be really giving me some nasty eyes today, and that can inform what I'm about to do. Or I could look over and see a real gentleness with Old Deuteronomy and Victoria that I hadn't seen in that capacity before, and that can inform the moment. So that's the beauty in the living, breathing nature of this piece, is that it can change, and we have that flexibility and that capacity to let it breathe and to change and to not obviously night and day, like things aren't going to change, but it really helps keep the show fresh. So one thing, okay, so 2007 when I did it, one thing that I specifically played with, with that specific company was the fact that probably Grizabella and monk are the parents of Victoria.

[14:21] Speaker 4: Okay, yeah. So there's, yeah, I don't know. I'm sure I've never heard monk, but that makes sense. I or maybe it's, you know, there's a lot, there's a lot of dotted lines with the with the cats, family tree and so, but the Victoria, being your daughter is seems right,

[14:38] Speaker 5: right? And especially because I did listen into the I loved listening into your episode with Adam. It was awesome. It made me miss him just hearing his voice. But yes, I listened in. I was like, You know what? It's true in his thing about syllabub. I thought that was really an interesting take that I hadn't thought about previously, that she's the one that always sings with her. But I don't know. I think again, it comes back with Victoria. Because she's all white, that's that symbolic form of purity, and that she, in her purest form, would be the first one to open her art, her heart and her eyes to Grizabella, and be the first one to welcome her home and to touch her. And so that has always been like, of course, and again, furthering the notion that that's her daughter on top of it, especially if she doesn't know. Oh. So I always really loved that, because, oh man, when you put your hand out and then you feel that touch like it, knowing this is my daughter, this is my baby, you have that like release like no other. It's crazy. So yeah, so I always again, why would monk be so protective and the first one to be so guarded and protected, protective when Isabella enters the space. Why is he, of course, you know, always looking to old dude for, you know, to verify that he should be doing this. But also the first one to be like the first to protect the kittens. And I think it hasn't even it deepens it, if that's actually his daughter with her, right? So, I mean, that always really infused our our connection the monk and I, when I was on that tour. It really helped our dynamic on stage. So so much so. And then on this other one that I just did, yeah, I mean, it was really interesting because Andy blankenbueller, when he came in and kind of put his spin on things. I was very fortunate that I worked with Andy. Previous to this, I did the Joseph and the Amazing Technicolor dream coat tour. So just having that amazing opportunity to kind of really be in a room with all the time and to see how his brain works and how he loves to infuse pieces and work on things and where he comes from. So then, when he put his spin on cats dropping into cats that I already knew, but now with an Andy twist for me, was like, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding. Just, I loved it so much. So, yeah, so just knowing how he creates, he always creates an atmosphere with not the person who's currently in the center of the stage, in the spotlight Andy shows, no matter what it is, Hamilton in the heights are Joseph tour cats. It doesn't matter a bandstand all of them. He always uses the ensemble to inform what's happening with the main person who's on stage. So if you want to know at any given moment, how does this ensemble feel about the person who the song is about? All you have to do is look at the ensemble, because he uses them to do all the storytelling in that moment. So he really did that with this with, especially with all the Grizabella moments, with using their like, using all of them like, all the movements that are there and just their body language. And, you know, we weren't really supposed to be hissing a lot in this show. He was really kind of anti like, you know, like all of the verbal hissing, because he wanted our bodies and our postures and all of that to inform things, rather than any kind of audible sound. So, yeah, so I just thought it was awesome. And I really think that he kind of helped really take that another layer deeper in the storytelling with frizz.

[18:07] Speaker 4: And you know what's what's fascinating about that is that when you look at the Wikipedia, there's a cat's Wikipedia page, like a fan Wikipedia page that has a lot of, like, rumors and all kinds of stuff. There's like 4000 pages or more. It's mostly centered. A lot of it is based off of 2016 the revival. But if you try to go, if you're me, who saw that performance twice, and no other variation of cats ever live, all of the things I can go reference are the VHS, and that's mostly it, because that's what's on YouTube. That's what's you can, you know, buy, like, that's where you can go find a copy of this. And so it's, it's interesting, like, I would love to be able to go back and watch the 2016 version, knowing, you know, the information I know now about just a story in general. And you know these things I've picked up talking to to your tour cast and the 16 cast, and I'm talking to some of the the cast from the 80s tour, like, what, how this all fuses together? Because I think there's so much. And I've interviewed a few fans who go to watch, like one cat the whole way through, or go to like, pull through. The other pieces, I was so mesmerized the first time, I had no idea what's happening. And then the second time, I was a little intoxicated because I knew better the second time, and I was ready to, like, just enjoy the experience, but I'd still constantly was being like, Oh, this was happening, and this was there, and I had no idea that was happening. I don't remember this from the first time, and maybe they changed it like it was different than the first time. And so I feel like there's something that next time I see this show live, I'm gonna be like, very much more in tune to a lot of these things. I don't think I can go see as easily, because the videos even kind of jump cut around and in part so I can't see what that person's doing or that cat's doing. Yeah.

[19:59] Speaker 5: Yeah, of course. I know it's always, I mean, it's the same thing, like, when, um, when any show gets put onto film, you know, it's because through that lens, we're being told what we're supposed to watch, right? But when you sit in a theater, you can look anywhere. Sometimes I just turn around. I'm like, You know what? I'm gonna check out what the conductor's doing right now? Oh, they're cueing the, you know, off stage vocalist. I love it, you know. So you can just kind of tune in wherever you want. So that was,

[20:21] Speaker 4: that was bad for me. I saw the last thing I saw before was I saw Diana, and I ended up with someone gave the, you know, we had tickets from a work thing, and I ended up in the very first row behind the conductor. And I barely watched the show, because I watched the conductor the whole time, because I was just fascinated by that whole experience, because it's not something I normally get to see being like, right? And I mean, literally, behind him. And just, yeah, I was like, This is nuts. Like, it's kind of a wild ride for that. And just seeing everything queuing and just stuff that I, you know, and I, I'm not a theater person. I don't say I don't dance. I didn't do theater growing up. I was not in plays even in elementary school, because I played sports. And, like, I couldn't do the rehearsals, and so I just didn't do them. So seeing all this stuff to me is just like, it's, it's foreign. It's like, totally, I can't even fathom it, which is why I enjoy it so much. Well,

[21:13] Speaker 5: I'm so glad that you're doing this too, because it's, it's really awesome to, like, have your risk, not you just, you're so respectful of what all of us do and the industry and what the impact is. So it's awesome. So thank you. If you don't hear that enough, you should.

[21:28] Speaker 4: Yeah, you know, as much as I've poked fun at the story, which I still have big gripes with the story, I still think the way the story was written, I disagree with but it doesn't change the fact that like, and it's such a polarizing show, it doesn't change the fact that to any buddy who hates the show, and there are those people that hate it, it's like it's still one of the most impressive things I've ever seen. Like the stage isn't as absurdly detailed and really cool set design, half the dancing I was just like, and someone I just recently learned that the stage is slanted, and I was like, so I can't even imagine doing it flat, let alone doing some of these moves on a slanted floor. It's like all these things that are coming through. It's like it's still watching the peak performers doing an incredibly difficult thing. And so I have total respect for that. I still don't totally disagree with the story.

[22:24] Speaker 5: Well, I was gonna ask you, do you know about the whole Jellicle cats? Like, how that came up? Have you heard that before? So welcome to your poems. Okay, but why it's Jellicle? Like, what that kind of freaks out. Okay,

[22:35] Speaker 4: some of my thing is, at this point, I've been told so much, and I don't know what's real, what's fake, and I, like, I still kind of stick into my lane that Grizabella shouldn't have died at the end. And that's, that's, that's my take. So someone might have educated me on this, and I might just be forgetting it. So I apologize if I've already talked to like, I keep thinking the fabulous invalid guys, they told me all kinds of stuff, and it was, like, so overwhelming, because they just know so much about theater, so but, but tell me, what's the spirit Well,

[23:04] Speaker 5: we we found we saw a video that they played for us from Andrew Lloyd Webber on our first day of rehearsal for the revival tour. So they basically said that as little children, they used to say dear little cats, dear little and then that kind of, like, developed into Jellicle like, dear, listen, like, so that's where Jellicle cats came from. Isn't that fun? So it's like, your little cats, uh huh, yep.

[23:34] Speaker 4: And so. And then a lot of it's based on the poem there. And then the poem of Grizabella is not in the book,

[23:41] Speaker 5: nope. That is a completely separate poem that he found and then realized, wow, this is really beautiful. I should set this to music. And it's, it is such a stunning poem and so beautifully written. I'm like, Oh, I'm so glad that day happened for you and that you made it a song, because here we are. Yeah,

[24:01] Speaker 4: but what's what's wild is that that poem was not in the book because TSLA thought it was too dark for children. And that is, like the rationale. So again, that's part of my evidence of why children, I think, is shouldn't see it. But it's interesting to me that that's like, again, the creation of the show as we took this one thing, put it into the rest, made some tweaks. I did criticize, not criticize, but I called out all the different differences between the songs and the poems, and found some pockets of where it was like, some change. There's, there's a couple changes that I'm just like, he didn't need to make. And then there are plenty where I'm like, okay, that makes sense to cut out, but I still look at it and as someone who likes sitcoms, someone who likes, like, clear cut beginning, middle and conflict resolution type of thing, still like struggle with the show. And that's why, like, to me, the writing is, like, you can interpret it a million different ways. I love hearing all these things about it, but I'm still going like, yeah, it's a singing competition. And then we kill one at the end, and we kill the one that they. Everyone

[25:02] Speaker 5: hated. I mean, oh, I don't like knowing that your ideas about grizzabel and not being the one who should have been chosen. I especially now, especially with all the conversations that we're finally having in such mass quantities in this country, this notion of judging a book by its cover, making assumptions and jump in, sticking with your first opinion of something and that. How can we come together to be better and be kinder, you know, and without, without being judgmental, right? So I think that is the, I mean, inevitably, that is the discussion that we've always had. Is that old the reason? And always why? The question like, Well, then why doesn't Old Deuteronomy just pick someone? Why not? Like he knows, he knows who he wants, in theory, so why doesn't he just go because the show would be 10 minutes. Of course, they do the opening number, and then Old Deuteronomy be like, welcome to the delicate ball. Just kidding. I'm picking the cat, and it's the it's the end. We're done, right? So why that? Why the whole show? But I think it's again, that, in a way, to me, it's almost like a parent teaching a child by making them live through an experience, rather than just at the beginning saying, You should do this probably, but they're gonna make the kid go through all of the several things, so that they learn through experience. And to me, that's what cats completely is about, right? So he's letting everybody live through and to see everyone for who they are and what they present and their best traits and everything. And then in that reminder of, why are we doing this to Grizabella? Why are you doing this to her? Do you completely understand what she's going through, and why would you make assumptions about her? So that's why, rather than him making the choice, he makes it an actual conscious shift for the people, for all of the cats on that stage, to recognize their own bias, feelings and their own things. To me, especially now it's so right, like, it's, it's even more relevant. And I'm like, Oh, I just want to do cats now, after the pandemic, you know, because it is, it's even more about, about all of that, and, you know, and how much more sacred and special is

[27:17] Speaker 5: Isabella, I'm sorry, getting to wear the cute little kitten heels, especially getting to, you know, sing memory in my especially in this last version, where I had to wear like a belt that was all rigged to fly. Oh, that was comfy, not really.

[27:34] Speaker 4: But, um, okay, so this is interesting, because I don't think I've heard this is this version. Everyone has a slight take on it. So from what I'm hearing, you're saying is that Old Deuteronomy knows that Grizabella is his choice before the show starts. It's like we've decided. But the best way for me to teach the Jellicle Tribe a lesson of acceptance, and all you know, again, all the positive things, is I'm going to make everybody tell their story, and then I'm going to showcase the one that, like, we've been mean to, we've kind of exiled, and that's like, your the belief of like, that's why she wins. You know, wins is the wrong word. She dies. She wins, like, whatever she's rewarded. But that you're saying, old dude around me knew from day one. And this was a, not a social experiment, but this was a way to teach. It was a teaching moment well,

[28:21] Speaker 5: and I do think in in the same vein, it was a social experiment, because instead of am telling them this is who I'm picking and why it becomes a I'm gonna make you see through why this person should be picked, and inevitably, you will all pick for the same reason that I already know she's the one who should be picked that he knows he knows he knows he's wise, he's wise he and that's why he's Old Deuteronomy, and he's so well loved, and he's so, you know, he's this magical being, right? Because he has so much wisdom and truth behind what he does. And so everyone respects him. So I think they would respect his choice. But again, it's that he's making the tribe choose. He's making them choose. So that's why, at the very beginning, they would have never picked Grizz. But that's also, that's another thing that when you do see the show again, or watch any clip of cats, and they, when she starts memory, they all the entire they're all at that you know, when they you finish off, misto, he makes the pin spot really small and sends it up. Syllabus, sings, memory. And then that's when Grizz again. She always enters in the moment where she's least welcome, right? They're always having some big party, or they're having a really beautiful, tender moment, and Grizz is the catalyst that changes it again. And everybody is like, Oh, the buzz kill. Why is Grizz here again? Right? So especially in this moment, but this is her last chance. This is her very last chance. And she hasn't presented her her story yet, because if you remember then the very first act, little memory, which comes after the Jellicle Ball, they've all just done this giant celebration. Conversation. She got shunned during the Jellicle Ball, so she wasn't part of it. She came in, everybody left the stage, and she was left alone. Doesn't know that Old Deuteronomy is still there. She thinks she's alone. And that was her chance. And that was when we really we as an audience member, get to see her the cats, don't we do as the audience. So that was when we connect with her. So then after that, but so again, she still hasn't had her presentational moment right to come forth like skimble Shanks has gone and misto is gone, and everybody, everybody's done their work, their magic, literally, and has done their thing. Chris hasn't yet, right? So now this is her last chance, because if she doesn't come forth, and that's what that's like, the intensity and the driving force behind memory is that she has to present in this very moment, otherwise that she will die. This she will die. Tonight will be the die. She either will be picked and she'll get another life, or tonight is her last night on the earth she will die. So

[30:55] Speaker 4: do you think, in your theory, that Old Deuteronomy knows at the beginning of the show, or it's the little memory that's that Seales it for him, See,

[31:03] Speaker 5: for me, I think I don't hang on. That's a great question. I mean, I feel like you could play with two options, one being that he comes into this Jellicle Ball with maybe, like a top three. And in my mind, I don't know who the third would be. I think it should, in theory, it would be Gus Grizz and I actually don't know who the third would be, maybe Jenny, Annie, maybe, but, but then again, in the revival, she's young and spunky, but in the original, she's older, right?

[31:33] Speaker 4: Every Jenny I've talked to doesn't feel that. They feel that they can go, they feel they have still be mom there, yeah, oh, for sure.

[31:41] Speaker 5: So I don't know. So maybe he comes in with top three, you know, maybe it's like, you know, the finale of American Idol, and he's got top he's got top two or top three, and now we gotta do a sing off and figure it out. So maybe. But I think in that moment and with little memory, I think that is a turning point for him, and I think that is his like, okay, she's here. She is trying so desperately, and she needs this moment, so even if it's me, making keeping everybody in check, so that she has her moment, which is inevitably how memory starts, like from our end. And I think everyone in the audience does perceive that as well as you know, again, it's Grizz is here. Everyone puts their guards up. They all come. They retract her. They come up to her. They tell they, you know, forcefully are hissing, and tell her to go. She fights her way through. She comes in and in that so finally, it's when dude will always, usually look to monk and says, no, no over there. And monk has to step down. And then it is that final moment where a dude looks Grizz at the in the eye, and we'll go, go ahead, and then she'll take one more step in. And our left foot always usually goes on the eye of the tiger on the stage. So she'll like, and that is usually in the beginning, the beginning chord, start of memory. And then that's when she starts, because she's being allowed. The opportunity, like the moment is yours this, this is your time. Take it, you know, so and then that's how memory happens, and that's, that's her time to actually finally be a part of it in some weird, you know, in this way, and in that moment, especially in this revival version Andy May. I think it was Andy again. I'm not sure it could be a combination of, of course, the original with Jillian and Chrissy Cartwright and Andy and everyone. But he made it very distinct that he wanted everybody to be turned away from Grizz. Everyone's turned away, except for sweet little Victoria, who is very much looking at her and very intrigued. So old dude and Victoria are the only eyeballs like as grizabellish. They're the only eyeballs that you get to see in the beginning. So and everyone else is turned away. So, and then that, and this was one of the things we did. And I know you talked about cat school, but in felonity school is we had these Okay, now that you know how to move like a cat, now we need to infuse what the story is. So knowing your character traits, how Who do you relate to? Who are your friends, if you're a kitten, who's your best friend, who's your mom, who's your cousin, who's you know, who's someone you're scared of, who's someone you really like, or you feel nurtured by, right? So knowing these relationships we would have, they when Grizabella would sing memory, they said, Now I want you to just to think in your world as your cat listening to her words, when would be the moment? And it can again. It can change every day based on how you feel today. How are you feeling, and when is it that you finally are coming to the moment where you can turn around and you want to get, give her your full attention, because you're with her and you get it, or you're intrigued and you want to listen, right? Or you just are finally being a little more forgiving, and you're taking the edge off, and you can give her your energy, right? So by the end, especially, I believe it's by touch me, everybody is facing Chris, right? So again, that notion of like, again, a. Deuteronomy didn't say, Okay, everybody, shush. You have to listen. You know, strict, strict. You have to listen right now. He just gave her the space. He didn't tell them they had to turn around. You know what? I mean, he didn't ever, there's nothing and no force. It's everyone having their, I want to say, come to Jesus moment, but it's kind of that where they would come around, and everyone finally comes around to this notion of, wow, you're right. We were wrong. We she deserves to be listened to. And in that moment, that is when the choice was made, not even grizzabella's Touch. To me, it wasn't Grizabella. I mean, sorry, Victoria's touch. That isn't the, that's the that's like the physical, you know, icing on the little cheering on top of the Sunday that we've made. But it's, for me, it's that full physical turning around that in the storytelling is everybody saying we Okay, okay, we're sorry, if that's who we need to say is we're sorry, we forgive you. And then just Victoria is the touch. And by then everyone, the receiving line starts to form at that point. So it was the tribe's decision. So

[36:09] Speaker 4: I like, I really like that, because it's, you know, there's a lot of I've heard a lot of theories. I've heard a lot of versions of this. I did like Adam, kind of was the first one to me that really mentioned the not seeing the only one seeing Grizz, and little memory, I've heard a bunch of other variations of this as well. That's the first time I've heard someone think that the or say that the decision has been made before it started. And this is a lesson, and that's an interesting take on it. I love that you mentioned American Idol, because that was my take I saw, I saw Leona Lewis, and I thought I saw a a the most wild X Factor episode I've ever seen, when I walked out of theater the first time. So I'm very conscious that the majority of my take centers around I view Old Deuteronomy as a Simon Cowell, and I view every person that had their own song as a performer that gave their choice to go up there, and I'm gonna pick the best winner. And I think you can make an argument for for grizzabel, especially when you get the great editing and they talk about the redemption story and whatever craziness she went through that wasn't the most, that wasn't my my winner. And that's kind of why I've always looked at it from that lens, but I've never looked at it from the lens of Old Deuteronomy already knew there's a lot more already happening, and this is just one day's kind of story to his decisions been made. I looked at it as everyone's going up there, giving their best effort, and then we're gonna pick and Old Deuteronomy is gonna pick as the judge. And and there was some, some bias, which is why, you know, I think he picked wrong,

[37:47] Speaker 5: which I think is, and again, how cool that one the show exists in this form so that these conversations can be had, right? It isn't so clear cut. It isn't just one way, or it's not all black and white, right? Right? And so that's what's really even though that's what the show logo is with some yellow eyes, right? You know? So it's really cool. And again, every version is what makes them unique. And it's all about the relationships within the show. And

[38:13] Speaker 4: there's more to. I mean, there's just so many other layers to it that I've uncovered. Of like, if these two people were friends off stage as performers and their cats might become closer, even though that might not be as a traditionalist version of it. And that's like, I think also kind of fun. I know there's some people, some super fans, are not big on that. You know, it's like, No, you didn't play that the way it's supposed to. But I personally like that. Like, I like the the nuance to that of like, it's fun, and 99% of the people in the theater aren't gonna know, notice, you know, or like, they're not gonna pick up on that, which is what gives you as performers, also some creative like space to make it. So eight shows a week is eight shows a week. There's some some fun with it. Mm,

[38:58] Speaker 5: hmm. Oh, especially, too, it's really, it's always so interesting when you you know, you remember, you know what the show was, when it especially when the long running production of this, right? Like, shows go on for like, years and years. So when you think of how the show started, and how it kind of ebbs and flows and blossoms and changes as it goes and again, the the knowing that as long as we're all safe, and that's one thing we've always talked about. Things can change. Things can slightly adjust. But as long as everyone is safe and no one's filling out accident reports because of changes, then let's just say, like, be smart and Be courteous and be, you know, keep within the context of the show. But again, it does have that wiggle room, that breathing room. And in a way, that's what really does help keep it even though, oh my gosh, I have so much respect for all of the dancers in the show, because physically, this show is epic. And to say, to keep it fresh, like, I don't know how some of them do it, eight shows a week, They're unbelievable. You know so well. Whatever it is because their physical game they are doing that, but then also whatever they need to do to keep their mental game alive and fresh, so that their physical self can keep going. Bless them, work your magic, keep making it happen. You know,

[40:12] Speaker 4: that was my, my biggest takeaway, when I was kind of poking fun at the show, and then I was talking to people that, like, hated it, and I'm like, Yeah, but like, did you watch it? I was like, some of that, some of that dancing. I was like, some of the dancing was crazy, like, I mean, I was like, that is, is a skill that is a talent that most people don't have. And so to me, I was like, you can hate the show, the plot, all that stuff, all you want, but to be able to do those dancing and then to be able to do dancing and sing and and be on stage,

[40:48] Speaker 4: and be running through the crowd. I mean, I was just like, it physically looked like one of the most impressive feats I've ever seen on Broadway. And that's why I was like. I was like, I can criticize to an extent, but at the same time, like, I also like was beyond impressed on a lot of pieces of it.

[41:04] Speaker 5: Mm, hmm. Oh, so glad you like it so much. Well, obviously we're here talking about, I

[41:09] Speaker 4: now, I now have no way more than I ever expected to about the show and I started, but here we are, and so let's do some rapid fire. We've now already answered my my last question, so we've dug deep into was Grizabella the right or wrong choice. So I feel good about that. I'm glad we covered it. But let's do some, some quick ones. Who, if you I like asking this question. I'm kind of tweaking this question now, because I always just say, who would you want to play another character in the show, but I like to say, who would you want to play? Ignoring, male, female, ignoring if it's like in your vocal range, ignoring if it's like you're not, not this, like, just if you could play any track, ignoring, could you actually do it or not? Which one would you really want to

[41:55] Speaker 5: do? Um, I It's a tie because I Jenny has always been, like, the sweetest, cutest thing. I've always loved that track and everything it is, it's motherly, it's fun, it's playful, it's all the things. And I think that's just because that checks a lot of boxes for Trisha, in terms of, like, oh, I can be myself on stage, but skimble shanks. I love skimble shanks. I think he's so cute, yeah? So I tap, you like the tap numbers? Yeah? I do, you know. And I'm so glad that they made it a tap number for the movie. I thought it was so cute. I've always said, Why isn't this a tap number? I love it, yeah? Skimble. So much fun. So I would have to say tied to the two of those that, or I would want to be the Foy person who makes Grizz fly, because I I had never flown previous to doing the revival. And I, like, I told you the Peter Pan story early, I was obsessed with on stage flying, or just flying in general. So when I got to fly for the first time, I remember just hugging my the the text, like, so hard. I was like, I love this so much. Thank you for making me Tinker Bell today. You know. So anyway, if I couldn't be on stage, then I would want to be the foyer person. It is your

[43:07] Speaker 4: full circle. Full circle moment for you. It really was seeing the show and getting the fly. What about favorite song of the show?

[43:19] Speaker 5: Oh, favorite song, I just I love Old Deuteronomy. Is that wild to say? But I, and I also like moonlight, because the little moonlight, turn your face to the moonlight, right? That was horrible. Don't

[43:37] Speaker 5: awesome. So I love that, because, again, it keeps coming around, and each time you hear it, it just, you kind of sink your teeth and more and you like it just deepens its meaning as to why it's in the show. So I do like that. It's like the little sprinkling of fairy dust throughout the show. But I really love all Deuteronomy. There's just something about the orchestration and like, there was this, what the underscoring, like them, like when I was in the booth, there was this one section of the ooze at the four that we'd sing in four point harmony, and it was just so warm and lush. It's just like holding a cup of tea and a cozy sweater on a on a cold day. It just warmed my soul. And I think something about that is just it. You know, it's just such a big hug within the show that you in that moment, I think we all need before it becomes playful and fun. And you know, because everyone loves Tugger, and that's such a fun, energetic number, and the opening is great. And, you know, everything serves its purpose, but in that moment it is. It's just that nice, warm hug and the celebration, and it's beautiful too, and the full company sings together. That's another one. Grizz isn't on stage. But when you think about, like, really full company singing, like this really lush number, that's one of them. And I really do like it for that reason. That's awesome. What about

[44:54] Speaker 5: Oh, least favorite character. I mean, the cavity. I know we have. To have conflict. But I also just feel for that track, because he's like, having to do all of the things played on my cavity. Oh my gosh. Bless them all. They just between costume changes and what's physically demanding, and it's just so much. It's fun. But again, for me, if I want to bring kids to a show, I'd be like, Oh, my cavity is a little scary, and I don't want them to be scared, but they have to be, but I don't know. Yeah, my COVID is great. Favorite characters, though. I've always thought bomb is just such a awesome track, always, you know, she's so fiery. Of course, she's in a red unitard, but just in the best ways, she's great. And Tugger. I mean, come on, Tugger is awesome. Look at that costume. It's so cool. You're like cats, but Simba, but cats,

[45:45] Speaker 4: yeah, yeah. Okay, my last Rapid Fire question, okay, and I'm gonna have to give a little back story, I think, because I didn't know this existed, but there's a group of people that are on Tumblr that actually write as if they are one of the characters, and they like end up in situations. So it's like they're in normal, everyday life, and then they're interacting with each other. So I would write as one. You would write as one, and we'd kind of go back and forth on Tumblr, making the scenario. So it's like a little bit of like, almost live action, of it, of So, I want to know who would you want to write like, which character would you really want to be the writer for? Of like, if you're going to take control in just everyday scenarios and act as that particular cat, who would you want to write as?

[46:35] Speaker 5: Hmm, well, first off, can I just say that when you said Tumblr, I thought you said Tinder. But then when you continue to speak and you said, what you said about going back and forth, I was like, well, this could also work on Tinder. So,

[46:52] Speaker 5: Oh, boy. Um, wow, maybe Okay, so maybe I would want to be Buster for Jones, because I secretly want to have a food blog. I like that. That's good. Maybe he like reviews restaurants, and he kind of, you know, his his hand in the foodie scene. And maybe he has, like, a Food Channel. Maybe he's got, like, his little kitty cat cameras all set up, and he's, you know, making recipes and posting stuff and how he makes his different favorite

[47:18] Speaker 4: foods. That's fun. That's probably way more wholesome than than actually what's happening on Tumblr. But I always said, Yeah, because it's fun to write the villain. You know, if you're more fun to kind of write that storyline. But most important question, how can we find you on social media and stay in touch?

[47:39] Speaker 5: Sure, yeah. Well, I have my website, of course, Trisha tan guy.com, and then everything else, Twitter, Instagram, it's all at Tricia tan guy. And if you're wondering how I spell it without looking at it, it is, I'm a pale girl, but my last name is tan guy, T, A, N, G, u, y, and I spelled Trisha with C, I A, not S, H, A, because I'm really Patricia, amazing.

[48:01] Speaker 4: Well, thank you so much for being here, humoring me, educating me. I loved hearing your theory. It's definitely not what I've heard, but I it's like, it's, I like it. It's like, very educational, timely of what's going on. And kind of it really fits, but it also makes grizabell the right choice, and I don't like that. Oh,

[48:23] Speaker 5: it's so hard again. It was such an honor to walk in her shoes and to literally fill that iconic space. So it's kind of like, Okay, I gotta justify every step of the way. So how could I think otherwise? I guess.

[48:45] Speaker 4: and thanks everyone else for listening to this episode with Trisha Tanga and the wrong cat died, the podcast breakdown of the catastrophe. To follow along. You can subscribe on Apple podcast, Spotify, Stitcher, or anywhere else you get your podcast. Follow us on Twitter and Instagram at the wrong cat died. Or check out our website, the wronghead died.com. Do.