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[0:00] Speaker 1: Hi, I'm Ariana Grande. Hi, I'm Cynthia Erivo, and you're listening to the Broadway Podcast Network, visit vpm.fm to discover more.

[0:29] Mike Abrams: the wrong cat died the podcast breakdown, the catastrophe. I'm your host, Mike Abrams, and today we have another amazing guest. He was a swing in the 2016 Broadway revival of cats covering Plato, Macavity, car, Bucha and a couple more. So welcome Joshua Burridge, and thank you for joining me.

[0:47] Mike Abrams: have you on I always love, I love talking to swings, because you have to kind of understand so many different characters, which is the big thing that I, you know, I've really broken down. But before we get into this, you know the 2016 cast, I always love hearing from you about your history of cats before you ended up in the show, because it's like, was it the 1998 movie? Was it a regional production? Like, what was your first introduction to the musical? Yeah,

[1:14] Speaker 2: my introduction into cats started pretty young. My parents had bought that 1998 film, and me and my older brother, who also is a performer at the time, were both, I think I was five, and he was maybe like seven, and we just kind of watched that film on repeat for months and months and months, and would kind of just copy them and imitate them and pretend we were cats. And at that point we were dancing or performing at all. So that was kind of our introduction into theater, really, as well. And my parents have, you know, all the all these videos of us just, you know, going for it, doing the Jellicle Ball, uh, kind of just imitating these creatures. And I think it was kind of a cool introduction into theater and cats as well, because, you know, the plot is So, you know, not many people understand it, or just from the first time watching. So it was easy for us as kids to kind of understand and we just kind of became obsessed with it so much that we broke the VHS from watching it so many times. And so that was always a big part of our lives. And I hadn't seen a live production of it until this 2016 revival. We both were so excited when we heard it was coming to Broadway, so we bought tickets to one of the first few months of the production, and we went and were obsessed with it, and we're freaking out just because we loved it so much. And I just through seeing friends in the show, I think I saw it probably seven times before I even joined the cast. So you could say, I'm definitely a cats fan. So then it was just, you know, kind of full circle, seeing that or being a part of the production, finally, because it felt like, you know, that was my introduction into musical theater and anything Broadway and dance. So to do it was so cool. That's,

[3:19] Mike Abrams: that's awesome here. So I do you? Have you ever posted, has your like, family dug up those old videos? Like, is that? Yeah,

[3:27] Speaker 2: if you check out my Instagram, I think I've posted it like three times, just because it's a, it's a, one of my favorite videos. I love

[3:34] Mike Abrams: it. I love it. We'll point to it to make sure that there's young you going, going through the jello ball, which, which we'll get to. But I guess, I guess, let's get into it now, as a five and seven year old, did you and your I think your brother? Did you recognize the you know, what the ball actually is like? That's a big thing I've I've talked a lot about is that I don't think it's a very kid friendly show when you really think about it. And there are so many examples and stories, and even when I saw it the first time, there were a bunch of kids in the audience of, oh, just enjoy it. But then it's like, you know, the ball's an orgy. And so it's kind of a weird thing to to be so polarizing. So, like, such a big part of kids lives, and you know, a bunch of kids who've burned through VHS is, but did that like, was there an aha moment for you when you started kind of learning the show as an adult? That was like, Oh, I can't believe we have home videos of us doing this. Definitely.

[4:32] Speaker 2: I think of course, we were processing that at the time, but through time, even before I joined the show, I you know, I re watched clips of the show, and was like, Oh, this is what that is. And then, of course, learning the show is just, you know, kind of a yes, yeah, you're right. This is exactly what that is. So

[4:56] Mike Abrams: amazing. So what was the conversation like with your brother? Yeah, about about being in, you know, it's like you're both your dual dream, and then you get cast in the show.

[5:07] Speaker 2: Yeah? Well, funny thing is, he actually became the dance captain and swing of the national tour that had gone out of the same production. We covered the same exact tracks. Did this pretty much the same exact role, besides, he was also dance captain. So it was that was probably one of the most exciting parts of it all

[5:30] Mike Abrams: that sounds like we've got another episode to record here soon. That is amazing. So the two of you basically burned through as five and seven year olds a VHS tape, and then both end up being able to do the show as adults. I mean, that's, that's probably, I mean, that's got to be very rare, because there's not that many people that you know it's like, it's, you know, the peak of your field is being able to to do this on Broadway and on tour. And it's a lot of people's dreams to do that. And I think of all the, you know, the kids who shoot much more into sports inside, the kids who shoot a basket at the end of their driveway, think they're going to win the NBA championship, but most people don't. And here you two got to do that. That's really cool.

[6:11] Speaker 2: Oh, thank you. That was it was so cool. And we definitely still kind of just like, freak out that that happened. Yeah.

[6:19] Mike Abrams: So let's go into your How did you know you said you had friends in the show? How did the joining as a swing, like, how did that all come to life? And then I've got some questions about being a swing, because I still that whole concept is fascinating to me. Yeah,

[6:36] Speaker 2: I had not gone in for the production at all because at that point, I Oh, I had still been on tour with another show when the whole auditions happened for the first round of everything, and then I came into the city, and I weirdly, was always missing the whenever the auditions were happening, I was always out of, You know, out of the city, or unavailable. And they had announced a closing date for the show, and this was probably like early summer 2017 and I just went to the ECC because they had an ECC one day. And I didn't know if they were looking for anybody, because it was kind of just a required call, but I was like, I need to just go in, because, you know, this is something that means so much to me, and I'll beat myself up if I don't even just go in and at least do the audition and feel proud of that. So I went in. It was just a day of dancing and singing. Didn't hear anything for like, probably almost a month, and then I had been on vacation at the end of the month, and I get a email from my agent asking my availability for a swing position. And the audition was like, in a few days, it was taking place at the Neil Simon on the stage, and I was like, Oh, my God, I gotta go in for this. First of all, terrified, you know, about the prospect of being a swing, because I'd never done that before. But also, I had to do it. So I took a bus to New York from vacation. Thankfully, I was in Maine, so I was still on the East Coast. Went in, you know, had a day of that left, went back to Maine to finish out, you know, vacation my family, and then I was called in the following week. It was kind of like a three day marathon of learning all the dances, because being a swing, you need to be able to, you know, cover a bunch of different tracks. So I was learning different different routines in about three days, and then the final day happened, and then I was supposed to be teaching in Santa Cruz that next week. And my agent had called me that night and were were like, can you start tomorrow? So I was like, Yes. First off, let me call my poor friends in Santa Cruz and let them know, I can't comment to you. But also, yes, absolutely, this is a dream. Yes, it's kind of fast and furious. It was definitely one of those auditions that, like you didn't see coming and and it just happened, and it was just so cool,

[9:18] Mike Abrams: yeah, and it's, you know, childhood dream. So it's got to be like, drop what you're doing to do it. Who the very first time you went on? Who did you go on as corco Pat Okay, okay, so you now, I want to ask a little bit about being a swing, because you said you hadn't done it before. And I, as someone who can't sing, can't dance, can't, you know, I'm not doing Tiktok routines in my, you know, in my basement. But I can't get over the fact of learning the show five different ways, five different times, five different songs, like the way parts you're singing and the dance numbers and everything. What is that like? You know, you didn't have a lot of time. You said, three days. Basically. How do. You go into learning all of that and being able to do that night in, night out, where you're basically switching around who you are, yeah,

[10:06] Speaker 2: so thankfully, so it was three days of learning, like just little little dance sections, so that wasn't as difficult, but I was thankfully able to learn the show I had two months they gave me Okay, learn all my tracks. So I was taking over for Corey Snyder, who was a swing so he was there, basically teaching me. And he was a dance captain, so he was teaching me basically his tracks in those two months. And we had a lot of new people coming in at that point too. So as those new people would be learning their tracks, I would learn along with them. So that was difficult in its own way, because I wasn't able to do the tracks yet. I was kind of just learning them and then learning, you know, learning six different tracks in a matter of two months, but not actually kind of performing them and, you know, figuring that out. So I learned my cavity first in, it was like two weeks, because they had to put two people in to learn that with them. And then from there was kind of just like corco Pat, you know, alanzo, car, Bucha pounceville, and then tumble Brutus after that, in the next, like month and a half.

[11:19] Mike Abrams: So, yeah, so when you're going between, and I want to get to the character kind of analysis of this here soon, but when you're going in between, and you're going one day as one person, one day as another or cat, one cat to the next cat, what is that like? How much thought do you put into the character when you're on stage, versus just, I got to make sure I hit the right track. I gotta make sure I got the right dance numbers and everything. Like, is there that level of thought versus, you know, when you hear and you talk to someone who's doing the same track eight times a week, or, you know, about eight times a week, they're really toying and digging into like, this is what this cat would do.

[11:57] Speaker 2: Yeah, I honestly felt very protected by the choreography. Because I think how it's set up, and how it's choreographed is the movement very much feels like the character that you're playing. So, you know, although you don't really get to, like, dive into maybe this character as much as you would if you were doing it every night, the movement itself that you're doing, you know, feels like this character. And, you know, Alonzo is very like, pretentious and pulled up, and the movements very, you know, very strict and precise, versus, like car Bucha, who's more of, you know, a young cat, and his move, it's very playful. And same with kind of pouncable, like, there's a lot of floor work and stuff, kind of as a kitten would move, so it that definitely made me feel safe in kind of switching back and forth. I felt like that made it easier to change from cat to cat and kind of move with a personality. But it's definitely kind of a mind trick, you know, going from one person to another, yeah.

[13:05] Mike Abrams: I mean, and you go from, you have a wide range. I mean, we think about mccaviddy on one end, to alanza to carbuckety, like, those are three very different personalities. How much from the 1998 movie did you kind of bring into, you know, your interpretation of the show,

[13:22] Speaker 2: yeah, probably a good amount. I feel like I was so young when I first saw that that I wasn't really able to kind of process who each character was. So that was really cool about doing this production, was I was able to really understand who each cat was, I feel like I definitely knew who missed off leaves was who I wasn't. I didn't, I'm covering, but besides, I didn't really know much about each cat. So I feel like I kind of was able to make my own of each character versus, kind of like drawing in. But you know, a lot of the movement we it was fusion of Jillian Lynn and Andy Blankenbuehler. So that was kind of cool, because I felt very inspired by that choreography going in. And I felt like I kind of could pull from that. But as far as characters goes, I feel like I was just so young. I was just seeing like cats. Yeah.

[14:23] Mike Abrams: I mean, it's, it's an interesting piece, because I've only seen the show twice, and have, like, watched YouTube clips, and I think there's, I know more about the back stories and, like, the character analysis of the cats, but I'm still pretty confident, if you had me tried to pick between pounceable car buckety and tumble Brutus. I'm not sure I'd be able to point them out on the like, in a lineup for you, yeah? And that's like, I think, like, as a, you know, five and seven year old, like you and your brother, it's probably just like, there's just a lot of cats. And if it's not the Mustafa Lees and the Old Deuteronomy, like the ones that are very, very different and noticeably different, it's probably just like, they're just cats dancing, yeah,

[14:59] Speaker 2: I remember. Like the twin cats, very specifically, misto believes, of course, Old Deuteronomy, Tugger, you know, Victoria the white cat, but like that. Everything else is just like cats.

[15:11] Mike Abrams: It's just, yeah, it's just a blur. So let's, let's get into, I mean, since you came in part of the way through, were you given the three words for all of your cats?

[15:19] Speaker 2: Yes, that was really nice, because that was a nice way to introduce ourselves into these characters and how they should, kind of how their movements should be influenced, and who

[15:31] Speaker 3: they are. So what were the cavities? Three words, you know,

[15:35] Speaker 2: what I will remember. I remember that, um, I feel like I got more of Plato's and, you know, I'm not even sure they were definitely something like ferocious, you know,

[15:54] Mike Abrams: the cavities one I haven't, I've yet to talk to, like, a deep, deep dive into Macavity. And so that's like the one I'm kind of curious about, because it's such a, it's a it's the character that, if I was writing the show, I've had a lot of thought about how I'd rewrite the show, not the dance numbers or anything else, just like the plot, like how I would try to change the plot, and Macavity is the antagonist that I, like mccavi would be the bad guy, where we could have an actual arc of the story. And I don't think it's utilized that way. And so it's like it's a character that I just don't know what to do with. Besides, I love the song,

[16:31] Speaker 2: yeah, that was my favorite character to go on, for sure. Tell

[16:36] Mike Abrams: me a little bit about, like, what is macavities backstory in your eyes?

[16:39] Speaker 2: Yeah? Yeah. I kind of saw him as just this kind of like rebel evil cat that is hypnotized these poor, you know, female cats and other cats to join his kind of gang, and he's done some horrible stuff to these cats, aka why Grizabella is so damaged and hurt. And, you know, people kind of fall into his trap. And same with, you know, like Bomb, bomb and Demeter have kind of escaped his hypnotized, you know, world that he's captured them in and he's just, I think he just kind of shows up, and maybe he's just a troubled cat that doesn't know how to connect with people, so he has to aggressively come for the cats.

[17:35] Mike Abrams: It's, it seems like the demeanor being sexually abused by McCabe is like one of the truths of the show, like, it's one of the things. There's a lot of rumors to the show, of like, because of how vague a lot of stuff is. And that seems to be one that's like a a documented truth of the show. I am curious about Grizz Bella, because that seems to be less documented of like, depending on who played it and how they played it. Is, was he? The reason that she left is he, like, essentially her pimp. Like, was he like, part of, like, what is, what is that relationship? Because it doesn't seem like that's consistent production to production.

[18:12] Speaker 2: Yeah, that's, that's what I took from that, that she had gone with him, and people kind of viewed her as a traitor, and she hadn't, like escaped from there, but COVID was kind of thrown to the curb, and now, you know, she's an older cat, so everyone kind of doesn't really know her and just sees this poor, sad, abused cat and is judging her for that. I feel like in the cat's world, it's kind of just like all the cats, like, heard rumors about her, but no one really knows who she is,

[18:47] Mike Abrams: yeah, so for some of the older ones that probably had relationships with her before, right? What? Um, so do you view McCabe as part of the Jellicle Tribe, or is he kind of the outsider just trying to cause chaos? I

[19:01] Speaker 2: would say he's a part of the Jellicle Tribe, but in like, removed a part of it, but removed, I think he doesn't know how to re enter back into maybe the Jellicle Tribe, and is acting out because of that. But I like to think, to like to think of him at one point, you know, being a part of everyone

[19:30] Mike Abrams: you know, he's supposed to be brothers with. I think Tugger and monkus trap as, like potentially Old Deuteronomy kids, or in some variation of that. And it's like, so I think it is. He's part of the tribe, but has kind of went down this negative path and is like the bad boy, and then, you know, essentially kidnaps his dad or brother, depending on how, you know, the ages of everyone, how they play it. And so it's a weird one to. Because when you looked at the I don't know if you saw the new movie, the new movie really positioned him as, like, I'm the choice for not Grizzle. Like, I'm like, the whole thing is about how he was going to be kidnapping everyone so he could be the Jellicle choice, right? And I think that that's such an interesting piece, because I didn't get that in the stage production. Of, like, I that he's all about making sure he's a choice. But as someone who tried to make an argument for him, I do think it's an interesting one of like, what is his argument of of why he should be picked is, besides that he's old, you know, he's on the older side of cats.

[20:41] Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a good question. And I, and I do like how they kind of incorporated him more into, you know, kind of just fighting his way into getting picked, versus, you know, because why else would he be chosen? You know, completely, Besides, there really is no, it feels like there's no redeeming qualities to him, you know, or a reason for him to be chosen. So it is an interesting take to see them kind of just make him like, you know, he kind of has to get rid of everyone in order for him to be the only one to be chosen. Yeah, I So,

[21:15] Mike Abrams: let me ask you this question, because I think being able to go on for a lot, especially the younger the kittens, but also on the cavity and alanzo a little bit more mature. The my interpretation of the show, not my humorous interpretation, but my actual like, Hey, this is kind of the root of the through line for the show is, is that, for the most part, everyone's trying to give the reason why they should be chosen, but not everyone really thinks they should be. So some are just there to entertain and part of the party, and that's it. You by playing, you know, as a swing so many different characters you played a few that really have zero chance of being picked. They're young, they're not like even they don't, probably don't want to be picked. And then you have some like mccaviddy That probably wants to be picked, but is not going to be. How did do you think about that in your performance, knowing, like, that's kind of the crux of this show, of going in, of, like, I'm trying to give my worth to Old Deuteronomy as mccavity, but I'm also just, like, kind of trying to be a little bit of a, you know, a nuisance as car bucket, and knowing I'm not going to be picked and I'm just this young, kind of like, happy to be there kitten, yeah,

[22:21] Speaker 2: honestly, again, with, like, the choreography, I feel like it lends itself so well to to helping you out with that. And I think just knowing in general, you know, going out, going going on for Macavity or Plato and going on for Alonzo, these people that are are more mature cats, and even, like the twin cats as well, it feels like there is so much more weight to them. And even just like mentally going into those tracks, I felt already, like, not stressed, but you really have to be like in the zone and it and it lends itself to kind of feeling that way, like I have something to prove. I have something to you know, I felt like I already was, like, trying to prove myself that I'm worthy of going into the to the heavy side layer, versus the kittens you like playing Council, playing carbuckety, tumble Brutus, the people that are kind of more of a nuisance, the choreography itself kind of just feels more playful and it doesn't feel like there is this like huge weight to everything. It does feel just more playful and joyful. So I felt like that already put me in the mental state of of not feeling like desperate to get chosen or be in the spotlight, or, you know, getting getting in front of Old Deuteronomy. Yeah, I feel like the choreography was so brilliantly done that that you feel that already like going into it, yeah,

[23:53] Mike Abrams: that is, I think the genius of the show is what Jillian and then what Andy did, which is where they placed people, and who was standing next to each other and who was interacting with each other, is what is almost telling the story that the lyrics aren't, which, my gripe of that is that, again, having, now knowing the names all these cats, everything's like, I don't know half the time who I'm looking at. You know, it's like, it's like, all right, which one is this guy again, which ones who she What was the relationship? So I I want to hear a little bit about a couple of the other ones. I want to hear a little bit about more Alan. So because I'm not sure, like, I know he's part of the coming of age dance with Victoria, usually, right? And then that's kind of it. He's just a little bit more mature, but he's not a kitten. But, like, what is his backstory?

[24:37] Speaker 2: Yeah, um, with him, I saw him more as kind of like the sidekick to monkey strap, like he's always kind of following around him. Maybe he's a little bit younger than monkey strap. Maybe he wasn't given the opportunity to kind of be a leader like monkey strap, but I think he kind of. Yes, maybe I think he grew up as an educated cat that, you know, thinks he's above a lot of other people, and it's kind of always been like that, and feels like he has a responsibility to protect a lot of people, especially like a you'll see that in Rum Tum Tugger, he's totally turned off by anything that Tugger does, or anything that's not proper or pulled up, and he kind of rejects all of that. So I always see him. I see him as somebody that grew up kind of feeling like he was the most important, and then maybe didn't end up being that important leader that he thought he was going to be. So is kind of, you know, jaded and bitter in that way, but definitely, very much looks up to monka strap and feels like he should have that power as well.

[25:48] Mike Abrams: He basically just described like Rob Kardashian. Yeah,

[25:54] Mike Abrams: a Rob Kardashian of cats. I love it, okay. I want to hear a little bit about I and you can tell me a little bit more about how this all came to life. But in your cats Wikipedia page, which there's a fan Wikipedia page, it has you as an emergency cover on the tour. Yes. So what is that? What does emergency cover really mean? Is it just like you're on call wherever they are in the country, and have to fly out there and go and just because you already know the tracks, yeah.

[26:20] Speaker 2: So what happened there? That happened actually, with a few people from the revival company that were asked to go out there were, you know, the show is so dance heavy and injuries, I feel like are inevitable with with this production. And there was a few times where they would be down coverage out on the tour. And because, you know, there's so many, so many people that know the show, they kind of just called people whenever they needed somebody. So for me, there was, I think the Manka strap was out for maybe a little bit, and their play doh Macavity had been on for Manka strap. And in that case, there was only, I think someone else was out. So there was only, I think my brother was the only play doh Macavity cover, which is scary, you know, in case anyone else gets injured, they're already kind of cutting cats. So they had flown me out there for three weeks to be just on standby in case they needed me for Play Doh mccavity, and I didn't actually even go on. It was kind of just there as a safety net. So that was also pretty wild being there, because I hadn't done the show in two years, at that point, I think about two years. So I kind of had to, you know, thankfully, my brother was there to help me out, like, relearn the show. But I just watched the show every night and was there for extra coverage. Francesca. Francesca Grinnell, who was a swing in the revival company with me, was out there at the time for Rumpel teaser. I think Sarah Jenkins had just been out there for Jenny any dots. So basically, yeah, we were just out there. Thankfully, they kept us out there. So it's not like we had to go back and forth, but just there, just in case, you know, we're needed to go on.

[28:14] Speaker 2: I went to Detroit for two weeks and then DC for a week.

[28:18] Mike Abrams: Okay, so that's not like, you weren't like, one of the the two days and then just, like, all over.

[28:24] Speaker 2: No, yeah, thankfully, it was like, you know, sitting down somewhere, and my brother was out there, so I got to, I lived with him for the two weeks in Detroit, and then got my own housing that other week. But that's so fun. That was cool myself to say that we were together for a moment. Yeah, that would,

[28:41] Mike Abrams: I'm sure, would your it probably be tough, but, like, your family tried to go out if you both went on on the same day, but you probably learned about an hour before, like, not too long before you were willing

[28:51] Speaker 2: to do it. I remember my mom saying, she's like, if it happens, I'll try to get there.

[28:59] Mike Abrams: That's, I think that's just a cool piece. So it was like, you're, you know, from five to seven to adults, being able to do this kind of dream thing together, which is unique, again, like, there's not that many people that have that dream that as a young age, and then be able to fulfill it and live it as adults. It was

[29:18] Speaker 2: so cool, yeah, especially with that show. It's not even just like theater in general. It was, you know, that exact show

[29:26] Mike Abrams: full circle, yeah, were you in one of those stops that did the inflatable sets? Yeah,

[29:32] Speaker 2: I think that was maybe we had that all the stops. It's every single one. It was like, half inflatable, half like, hard, whatever the rest of the sets made out of. Okay,

[29:46] Mike Abrams: I just, I did talk with Sarah, with Sarah Jenkins, and we called it the the bounce Castle set, because it felt like it's just, like, has a long, like, a loud thing in the background, like continuously going there, and

[29:57] Speaker 2: they're kind of like we have a bounce house on. On, yeah, and

[30:01] Mike Abrams: so is that different to perform on, versus like, were they also raked? I didn't know what a raked stage was until I started doing this and they weren't

[30:07] Speaker 2: raked, which was nice, because that was definitely a challenge about doing it in New York. But the inflatable part, most of it, was not where we would usually dance on. If you would have danced on there, they had adjusted the show to not be up there, like, I think Grizz, at one point in our production had, she's like, all the way, you know, the furthest back on the set, sitting up top, which wouldn't have been able to happen there, because it's like, mainly like the back surrounding part is the blow up part. But I will say it does look you it's deceiving. Unless you know it that it's blown up, you would not be able to tell I

[30:48] Mike Abrams: just love the idea. I kept thinking when I heard about the first time that, like, there's all the the tumbling. I'm like, All right, you're gonna It's like jumping on trampoline. I got a bounce. Cancel. You can do you can do two flips instead of one, like a little extra lift. They should have

[31:03] Speaker 2: used that a little more. I don't know if they needed to be sturdier, but they could have done some cool acrobatic moments on there. Yeah,

[31:10] Mike Abrams: I'm happy to tell the writing of the story. I'm happy to give, like, my take on that, but me giving Dance Choreography advice to to an indie blanket mirror is probably not the right area of expertise. But let's talk a little bit. You said you saw the new movie. What was your take? Like? Did you go? Like, did you go? I think a lot of people were You were on tour. You might have been in that time frame where it was coming out around when you were on tour.

[31:35] Speaker 2: I I just got gone off a tour. So I was back in the city at that point, okay, um, and I was so excited to see it. Me and my friends were, honestly, like all my friends, to kind of have similar stories of watching the movie growing up and just being obsessed with it in some capacity. So we all, you know, we bought tickets, like, two months in advance, and we went, and honestly, we had a great time together. You know, it's different, one of a kind, I will say. But I think just, you know, there was something about being in that theater everybody, especially being in New York, I think because we were surrounded by a lot of other theater people or theater lovers, there was something about being in the city and seeing that movie that made it epic. You know, people were singing, people were dancing, clapping, it just felt like a celebration. And I think that made the whole experience 10 times better.

[32:36] Mike Abrams: Yeah, I saw it in the press viewing, okay, which was a mostly people, I think, either related to the show or media or something like that. And it was full and it was a lot of people laughing at parts that probably aren't funny. And that was where I was like, Oh, this is going to be an interesting thing, like, if this group is struggling to keep it together, where there's probably a little bit of level of professionalism going into that type of viewing, right then I was like, I can't even imagine going, I'm from Indiana, like, going in a theater in the middle of Indianapolis or, and, you know, even further out into, like, the rural areas of like, seeing this kind of movie where there's not as much theater, is not As much kind of like knowledge of that, and so I've only seen it once since. But I did find that healthy fascinating. I'm sure it was way more fun seeing with a bunch of people that also are fans of the show and like, can appreciate whether you loved it or hated, at least appreciate, kind of like what was made

[33:38] Speaker 2: of it. Yeah, exactly. I think that's what we felt going in and, and I know it's already a show that's so strange to make into a movie and try to make have more meaning, and, you know, in the movie sense, but we were just such fans, so to go in and see it in any capacity was exciting and cool and and we had a good we had a good time no matter what, that's awesome. It was a fun time. Yeah? We look back at it and we're like, that was, that was an epic night. Yeah? Well,

[34:07] Mike Abrams: let's, let's get into a couple rapid fire, and then we're gonna go to the the million dollar question. So my first thing is, is you played a lot of of the cats, but is there somebody that you didn't play that you like, if you could just play anybody, and I'll even say, like, suspend if you have the vocal range for it, or if it's like a female or male, is there? Like, who would you want to play? Just if you had the ability to play any

[34:31] Speaker 2: cat. I really love, uh, Mongo. Jerry. Mongo. Jerry, yeah, he's a fun cat because you you have that moment you know that number that also just love that number in general. And I love being able to partner and be with somebody on stage. So I think he has a fun track in that sense, where he's always with rumble teaser. And I always love that number and yeah, just kind of like that, like mischievous fun. Energy throughout the show, I was always kind of like jealous. I was like, ah, that'd be fun. One to do, yeah,

[35:05] Mike Abrams: the klepto the klepto cats. Yeah, who's your favorite and least favorite cat?

[35:14] Mike Abrams: covered. Nope. Just character wise, generally, I always try to say, also take the people out of it. Just like personality wise, which one do you really like and which one do you really

[35:23] Speaker 2: hate? I always just have a soft spot for Plato Macavity. I'll have to say,

[35:29] Speaker 3: like, the villain, okay, definitely my

[35:33] Speaker 2: favorite. My least favorite. This is hard because I feel like there's so much, so many redeeming qualities to a lot of cats. Um, I would have to say

[35:47] Speaker 3: maybe Alonzo a little too pretentious for you. Pretentious.

[35:51] Speaker 2: Yeah, I there's less room in that, in that role for anything fun or just, you know, in the cavity sense, you get to kind of just go crazy. And I feel like you don't really get to do it's very, the very pulled up and pretentious role that,

[36:09] Mike Abrams: yeah, I mean, again, you don't want to be Rob Kardashian. Like, what is your favorite song in the show skimble, shanks. Symbol, shanks. Okay? And do you get to do probably a good portion of that with some of the other you know, the characters you get to go, right? You get to help build the train and everything, because I don't think the cavities in it, but,

[36:30] Speaker 2: yeah, that was what was fun about being a kitten. They're kind of active throughout that whole thing, like Alonzo and corco patter, kind of just on the sides, doing like, little moves. And they do get to build the train too. But being being on for the kittens, you get to really be very involved with that number.

[36:47] Mike Abrams: That's awesome. Which this is, I think, one of my favorite questions that, which cat do you think personality wise, is thriving in 2021

[36:56] Speaker 2: oh gosh, I think probably carbuckety. I could see carbuckety thriving. I feel like he's, you know, that I could see him as a tick tocker. I could see him he has that energy. I could see him maybe being a little bit reckless, even throughout the pandemic. So maybe, maybe thriving. Maybe he's not thriving. Maybe he's being, you know, unsafe, but I feel like he's kind of just going off. He has that young energy, and I could see him, this is his time.

[37:29] Mike Abrams: Yeah, he's okay. So he's probably a little too reckless

[37:36] Mike Abrams: the most of of what he can in the time he's got, exactly, definitely rocky count. Yeah, I love it. And he's got his own dance moves. It's, it's a, yeah, he's okay. My million dollar question, which is what I've asked everybody, it's the basis of the show, is, I don't think Grizabella is the right Jellicle choice. So I'd love to hear from you. Do you agree with me, and if so, I'd love to hear who you would pick. And if not, I would love to hear your defense of Grizabella, and I'm going to try to

[38:08] Speaker 2: change your mind. Yeah, you know, I would say, if we got to know her a little bit more, I would say, choose her. But I'm thinking, you know about Gus and what's happening to him,

[38:24] Mike Abrams: Team Gus. Okay, let me ask you. I love asking this. I've been thinking a lot about this more because everyone who has, like, there's a lot of a lot of people go for Gus. But I'm gonna reframe my question to you, if you're Old Deuteronomy, yeah, what is your criteria every year to choose who's going to the heavy

[38:45] Speaker 2: sand layer. My criteria would be, I would, I would want to choose a cat that has lived somewhat of a full life already, somebody who has been a big part of the tribe, you know, has not just kind of existed in it, but has, you know, helped out and has felt like a real member of the tribe, and somebody who's been loyal as well to their, you know, the people of the tribe.

[39:15] Mike Abrams: Okay, so if that's your criteria, now, you've basically just eliminated Grizabella,

[39:19] Speaker 2: yeah, exactly. And, you know what, I'm kind of thinking, I have another person in mind. Um, I kind of want to see jelly Lorem, you know, get chosen. He kind of fills After saying that, I kind of think I'm thinking she's checking all those boxes. Yeah, so

[39:37] Mike Abrams: she does fit. I think Gus also fits that your criteria, yeah, I think Jenny probably fit your criteria, yep, and that's why I find this again, I just find this so fascinating, because everyone just assumes it should be great is because of the redemption story and like that she's needed it. But the more I start asking people about how does Old Deuteronomy choose it? Kind of makes you think. And

[40:02] Speaker 2: maybe, if we knew more about her, maybe she has done those things and it was a more recent turn, or, like, you know, maybe she used to be like that, and then something happened to her, and we can recall the times when she used to be, you know, like, like that, but we don't really get that

[40:19] Mike Abrams: No, and, you know, I did a I didn't, it hit me, I did a live reunion and kind of like, celebration with and I had three past grizabellas on, like, yeah, we have 15 minutes on stage each night. And that was, like, when they said that, I was like, Oh, wow. Like, you don't get a lot of time. And, you know, 15 minutes, four or five of that is memory, a big chunk of its little memory, and so you don't have a ton of time to to tell that story quickly. Because I think it is, like, fair if you want to fill in the blanks, and we want to assume, and I think that's what the newer movie tried to do, yeah, we tried to fill in some of those blanks and give a little bit more stories. So that way everyone is it was, I guess, less confused, because everyone's gonna confuse no matter what. Victoria as

[41:04] Speaker 2: not a narrator, but you know, kind of somebody that takes you on that journey, yeah, which,

[41:09] Mike Abrams: which, I think would be interesting if the stage production did that. Yeah, there's no to see that. There's no talking in the stage production, right? So, so your answer now. So now, after going through it that way, your answer is jelly. I'm gonna say jelly. Okay, I love it. I love it. You've got, she's got the reason.

[41:29] Speaker 2: I feel like she's singing your face off the whole show. She is there for, you know, she's there with, for Gus. You know, she's always kind of taking care of people. I see her as very kind, loyal, I feel like she's worthy.

[41:44] Mike Abrams: Okay, give you a counter argument to Jelly, because I think it's interesting that, because I've thought about her a lot, I've actually not made an argument for her. Yeah, but when, depending on like, one way I look at it is people are raising their hand for the song. Cats are the ones that are saying, like, I want to be chosen. Think of me. And she almost says, I'll give up my opportunity to do this, because I want to give you my friend, like, my, here's my my friend, Gus, yeah. And so it's like, would she even, I guess maybe you don't get a choice because they'll Deuteronomy, it kills you. But like, would she even go,

[42:17] Speaker 2: Yeah, you know what? I feel like I would see her not going, I could see her giving it away. Because I think she is selfless like that, which is exactly why she should be chosen. Yeah, I don't think she would go like now that you mentioned that, I I do think she is very, like, generous of you know that?

[42:37] Mike Abrams: Yeah, the most common answers is Team Gus, yeah, and then team Gus fits your criteria.

[42:44] Speaker 2: Yeah. He seems like a the right choice, especially age wise. You know, he's seen a lot. It's time.

[42:52] Mike Abrams: I just am glad that I am able to change your mind. That's what I thank

[42:58] Speaker 2: you for allowing, allowing me to look, you know, deeper into that. And slowly,

[43:02] Mike Abrams: I'm trying to get everybody who's done the show, and potentially doing the show in the future, to be like, Oh, no, should we really pick her? Yeah, and we're gonna have a different a different

[43:14] Mike Abrams: that's what I so one thing I would love to do, and I've said this, I think on an episode before, maybe I've just said it in passing to other people is, I think it'd be really fun to have a different cat each night, especially the tours. So that way, when you go, you get a different ending each night, and you get a different potential. Like, who actually deserves it today? Yeah, you can still sing memory and then just add a couple lines of like, here's our choice today. Yeah,

[43:40] Speaker 2: your last note was not it. You did not get chosen. Yeah? I mean, I mean you

[43:45] Mike Abrams: gotta, you still gotta sing memory. You still have to have that whole thing, but you can bring that whole arc together, and her still not get chosen, and then she's just back as part of the trap. Absolutely,

[43:53] Speaker 2: I think that's almost even that'll throw so many people off, because you you expect that after that,

[43:57] Mike Abrams: yeah, and you know, also, 40 plus years of of her being, the choice is probably some, most people, or not most people, I would say a lot of people, at least, have some idea going in, of like, what they're getting into. Maybe not. I had no idea. But it's not like, that's a I think that that was on me. Like, I kind of think anybody who goes in and doesn't know at this point, it's like seeing a movie from the 70s, like it's been around long enough that you you shouldn't be like a spoiler alert doesn't need to be said.

[44:26] Speaker 2: Yes, I got your everyone and their mother knows at this point exactly.

[44:31] Mike Abrams: So what are you working on these days, and how can we stay in touch with

[44:35] Speaker 2: you? Yeah, I have been teaching a lot dance. I was teaching through zoom during the whole pandemic, and that kind of has transferred into a lot of like in person, teaching, auditioning, hoping to be doing some theater soon. So happy to be seeing it, you know, starting up again. So hopefully doing that eventually. Soon, but yeah, just, you know, keep them busy dancing in the meantime.

[45:03] Speaker 3: Love it. And how can we stay in touch on social media? Yeah,

[45:07] Speaker 2: my Instagram is Joshua Burridge and my Twitter is Joshua Burridge. Three amazing

[45:13] Mike Abrams: Well, thank you so much for being here, for telling me way more about Plato Macavity and, you know, just the whole swing experience and your experience, and especially cool with, you know, the family experience with you and your brother getting to do it too, kind of together, but definitely, you know, back to back too, which is really cool.

[45:41] Mike Abrams: thanks everyone for listening. To this episode of the wrong cat died. The podcast, break down. The cast has to feed to follow along. You can subscribe on Apple podcast, Spotify, Stitcher, or anywhere else you listen to podcasts, follow us on Twitter and Instagram. At the wrong cat died. Check out our website, the wrong cat died.com. You.