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[0:00] Speaker 1: Hi, I'm Ariana Grande. Hi, I'm Cynthia Erivo, and you're listening to the Broadway Podcast Network, visit vpm.fm to discover more. There's a cat over here. There's a cat over there. I'm the one good night. I'm the one good night. I welcome to

[0:29] Speaker 2: the ROM cat died, the podcast breakdown of the cat. Satur feet, I'm your host, Mike Abrams, and today we have another amazing guest. She was tantamount on the sixth national tour, which ran before the pandemic in 2020 so welcome Laura Kaufman, and thank you for joining me.

[0:42] Speaker 3: Thank you. I'm so excited to be here today. I am

[0:46] Speaker 2: excited because you are as tantamount one of the twins, which I am now, as I've researched the show and learned more, I think is one of the most fascinating parts of the show. So we will get into the craziness of the twins, but before we do that, I always love hearing like your starting point of cats. When did you first learn about it? See it, know about it. Like, tell me your cat's history before you were cast in the show. Yeah.

[1:09] Speaker 3: You know, it's funny, because I feel like a lot of people have the story of, oh my gosh, cats was my first musical, or I watched the DVD until it stopped, or the VHS at that point until it stopped working. Or, you know, they from when they were five, they were crawling around like a cat, and I, I was when I booked it. I was like, Mom, why did we never watch that? VHS, like, why didn't we own it? And she didn't really know about it. So I don't know. I didn't grow up really having much history. However, I do vividly remember when I was probably in middle school, a local community theater. I'm from Kansas City, and a community theater did a production of Cats, and at that point I was super into theater, super into dance, and I remember being mesmerized and knowing that I would love to do the show at some point. So even though I wasn't five watching the VHS. I did see the show, and I specifically was mesmerized by the white cat, as many you know, young dancers are. And I just thought I had no idea what was going on, but I loved the beauty of it and the dance that just the dancing, you know, it was amazing. So that was kind of my first introduction to it, and then my next big introduction to it was when I was performing it, so kind of the crazy jump into it. Yeah,

[2:33] Speaker 2: I love that, because it is such a common for theater people, not just like people have done cats, but just in general, the theater community, it seems to either loves it or hates it. There's not a lot of middle with the show. And you're right. I have had with all the people I've interviewed, it's like, yes, you wore out the VHS tape, or I wore out a cassette tape of the cast recording from wherever I saw it. And then there's a group that it's like, man, and didn't know much about it, but here I am. And So how old were you when you saw the regional function?

[3:04] Speaker 3: I think I was probably, like 1211, or 12. So middle, you know, not super young, but not yet an adult by any means. So, yeah, middle school, I think,

[3:16] Speaker 2: Okay, so that's interesting, because, you know, I've, I've argued at length, and I don't think children so she should see the show because of the the underlying tone of some of the stuff that, I guess goes over their head, but totally you probably were in that range of where some of it probably still went right over your head, and other parts are probably a little like, oh, I kind of see

[3:36] Speaker 3: that now. Yeah, I think I think most of it went over my head, because I think I was just seeing the dancing and hearing the music. And, you know, I don't think I was like, I mean, when you're older, it's all pretty blatant, but I don't think I was viewing it from that standpoint. So, and I had friends in it. I knew the director, you know, so I was just excited to, you know, and my mom and dad didn't have any, they didn't know that maybe a kid, a younger kid, especially, maybe someone in middle school, that could pick up on cues, you know. I'm sure they were probably watching it like, oh gosh, should we, should we be here? But, yeah, it's fun too, because I saw it in a theater outside called theater in the park, which it's really cool to see the show outside, and then we toured to Starlight theater in Kansas City, where I grew up, doing theater which is also outside. So it's kind of cool because I first saw it outside in Kansas City, and then I got to perform it in an outside venue, an open air venue in Kansas City. So that was kind of a cool full circle moment for me. That's amazing.

[4:39] Speaker 2: Yeah, and doing it outside. I can only imagine, just because it's such a physical and crazy show.

[4:44] Speaker 3: Well, yeah, and the moon. I mean, at Starlight theater, we literally, yeah, we were doing it. And sorry, I'm like, skipping ahead, but we were doing it in like, 90 degree weather in July. I mean, truly, I thought it's a miracle someone didn't pass out. Our makeup was smearing down our face. Is, it was unlike anything else, but there was literally a moon. You know, by Act Two, it was dark and there, I mean, it just made it. It felt like we were actually in the junkyard. Outside. We could see the moon. It was so magical. Performing it, despite the 90 degree heat, it was really cool. Yeah,

[5:16] Speaker 2: that when I saw it the first time I've seen it twice live, I couldn't get over how physical it was, because I'd seen other musicals and other shows, but it was just like, wow, this is non stop. And then I learned, I didn't know what a rake was until this podcast, so then I learned you're doing it at an angle, and I couldn't even fathom that. Then you luckily,

[5:38] Speaker 3: we didn't have, we didn't have to do the rake, which I, even though I've done the show, I don't know how they like. Props to everyone that's done it on a rake, because I can't imagine it's hard enough on a flat, you know, more simple deck. So, very physical. Yeah.

[5:55] Speaker 2: So when you booked it, the show you booked this. You came in as a swing. Tell me about that experience of, like, learning the the cat's Bible, like, what is told to you on that day one, because, you know, you're going back to it's you were 12 or 13. You were a teenager, the only time you really saw this. Well, you don't have this, like, totally HS burn through tape of where you kind of know every character. So what was that experience like, of I'm gonna learn this whole story, and how shocked were you when you learned the whole story?

[6:26] Speaker 3: It was definitely some big shoes to step in. I mean, I so when I first found out, I booked it, I went to the library here and watched. For some reason I couldn't watch the revival production, but I watched, like, the original Broadway production, just to try and kind of, like, watch my cats and have some knowledge of what I was about to do. And as a swing, you know, a lot of times you actually aren't told firsthand, especially in the way that I learned cats in this setting, because I learned it with our entire cast, and what like they'd be teaching three people, three cats, what they were doing at once, and it maybe two of those cats I was supposed to be listening. I was covering both of those. So I'd be like, Oh, which one do I go? Do I go listen to Kim Craven talk to Victoria, or do I listen to Chrissy Cartwright talk to syllabub? And I know I'm missing valuable information somewhere. So a lot of things I wasn't told firsthand, and it was a lot of just sitting and observing, which is hard, and I'm kind of a physical learner, like, get up and do it and, you know, learn through that. So it was a big challenge to kind of be sitting and not be in the way of the junkyard. And, you know, all the swings were on the side taking notes. And here I'd be like, Oh, they said tantamount, like, what do they say? You know, kind of just having, like, supervision and ears and like, whenever someone was referring to your cat trying to catch what they were saying. And so, yeah, it was, it was crazy and so different than other shows, because you know you're on stage the entire time, and so if you do a wrong move, or besides just, of course, wanting to tell the story, well, it's safety. You know, you're climbing on things, you're jumping, there's like, there's cats coming from a million different directions. And if you do something wrong, you can get injured, or you can injure someone else. So it's just so important to be taking in as much as you can. And I was, I really was like, I don't know if I can do this, you know? And then it's just crazy, because somehow you just, it's like, fight, fight or flight. You step up, and when it's your turn and you have to save the day, somehow it all just kind of like, knock on wood, so far, it's just kind of come together. And you, I don't know, you just put everything you've learned into practice. And I think having the vision of the whole show as a whole, and all the different connections swinging is just so special, because you know the show in a way that no one else does. You know what, from the inside out, you know all the different connections. And, yeah, it was hard, but I wouldn't have traded the experience for the world, and getting to play a few different cats was just super cool. Yeah,

[9:12] Speaker 2: I have all the concept of a swing in general has always, like, amazed me again. I knew so little about theater before this the Broadway Podcast Network and this podcast, and so I can always knew that there were dancers and stuff going on, like on that were part of the show. I did not in understudies, but I'd never realized that like a job is to understand six to seven parts and just go on and potentially do two in one show. And so I know it's obviously topical because of some when this is being recorded, there were some comments recently, but I just advised, been amazed by the whole concept of swings, and so it seems like it just seems like such an impossible thing to do. And everyone I've talked to who's been a swing is always just like, yeah, we figure it out. Like it's just like, so. I'm like, Yeah, we did it. And everyone was just like, it just shows the talent level it takes to do it, and the talent level it takes to reach that level of being able to perform that, you know, this show, but at this level, it is such a, you know, to make it to to perform at this level is, is a talent it is. It's a skill that most people don't have, which is so why it's so fun to watch and cool to see.

[10:25] Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah. Well, thank you, yeah. I feel so lucky to have made it to this point. Because, you know, a lot of people work so hard, and it's being in the right place at the right time. And you know, I feel very, very lucky.

[10:38] Speaker 2: So when you were a swing Who was your first performance on is,

[10:42] Speaker 3: so my first performance was on as Victoria, and I had not even had a put in is where, as a swing, you have a basically a full cast rehearsal as that cat or as that track. So I hadn't even had a put in for her. I had never touched any of the guys that were going to be lifting me and throwing me in the air. I had never spaced with everyone. I hadn't like. I had not done anything. And I found out probably two hours, maybe an hour and a half before the show that I was on. I remember I was like, about to go into a hot yoga class, and I got a text, and I was like, I just, I mean, I was like, do I know my makeup plot? Do I know? You know, I was just like, so nervous. And, you know, we went, we did the lift call. I figured out all the lifts with Play Doh, the big lift I had never done. I mean, I really, like, I hadn't done the big lift with him, and then we had to make it look like we had been doing it every night of our lives. And so it was a really crazy first track to go on for just because she definitely, of all my cats, was the one that interact, like, was lifted by the most people and and somehow, kind of like you said, like, somehow it worked, and nothing, no lifts went wrong. And, I mean, I had so much props to the on stage, people that were looking out for me. And you know, it's amazing. It's really cool when a swing is on, because I feel like the cast really comes together, and everyone is kind of like there to support that one actor. And you feel like everyone has your back, and everyone you know wants the show to succeed. So everyone is there behind you, guiding you. And it that track. Specifically, it has been a dream role for my forever. And so getting to have that be my debut in the show and like it happened, and feeling fairly I mean, there's always a million things that we beat ourselves up about that we could do differently. But as a whole, knowing that I told the story and that no one got hurt, and that, you know, it happened was just a really, like, I like, pinch me experience, you know, I couldn't believe that, that it was happening, that I was living that so, yeah, a dream as a dancer, to dance that role. Yeah. Do you remember what city you were in? We were in Buffalo, New York, I believe. Yeah. So, like, random buffalo. I mean, not, Buffalo is great, but yeah, we were in Buffalo. I think it was one of our first, like, two or three cities, I think so, okay,

[13:10] Speaker 2: so, yeah, early on too, wow, yeah, it was, yeah, it's, it's cool to see. And in here, you know, I think I've interviewed a few from your cast, and it's, you know, great, amazing people. So it's not surprising to hear that they embrace you and kind of kind of Usher through this process absolutely and just it feels like it's just a family anyways, with it, with all the cast that have done this, because it is such a physical show, it's also a very sexual and sensual show. And like you, basically, I, from what I've been told you, you start by going through a class where you just kind of roll on top of each other for a while and learn

[13:47] Speaker 3: you get comfortable real quick with each other. I mean, it's Yeah, for sure. You have to, you have to, just like, lose your inhibitions and dive in and doing that as a whole, all together. And it's weird, because I think as you're adults, you get kind of, in a way, you get more self conscious and more self aware. You know, if you were kids asked to roll around and be cast, you'd be like, Oh, fun. But as adults like it feels weird, and it's when you don't know each other, it's scary. And I think just going through that experience together, and then, like you said, doing such a physical show where it's hard and we're having to lift each other up on the daily, it just creates a bond. And being on the road together in its own with any show creates a bond. So I think doing this show on the road is kind of I mean, my friends from that show are still like my best friends, who I hold so close. So it's really cool. That's

[14:41] Speaker 2: amazing. So I would love to now move to your cats, because I love to hear what you were told the back story, like, what's the persona of the cat? So I want to start with tantamount, because the twins are, I think, a wild part of the story that I. Wish, like, I still haven't seen a show where I can go back and be like, follow them around. Yeah, I learned more about them after I saw and the fact that they're telepathic and kind of like, are anticipating stuff, I feel like they're such a unique part of the show that it takes the super fans to probably know more about is, I think the average person watching for the first time is probably just watching the front cats kind of come and go. So totally tell me about the backstory. Like, what were you told about the twins?

[15:32] Speaker 3: Yeah, first, I think you hit the nail on the head. If you are just watching the show, you probably like, wouldn't even notice the twins, but if you know to look for them, I think that they tell a whole story that is in its own and so it's kind of cool to have play a character like that, where you're like, maybe no one's watching me, but if someone knows this show well, or if someone happens to catch us and then follow us like they're in for a treat. But yeah, we were given three words. It's for each cat at the beginning of the process, and I was like frantically scribbling all my words for all my cats and for tantamile. It was telepathic, suspicious and tentative, and yeah, so we were told that, you know, coroco and tanta mile have this telepathic gift with one another, but also with life as a whole. And kind of sensing. It's interesting, because I think all cats, we kind of feel like they have that sixth sense where they kind of know that you know they're looking somewhere and you're like, What do you know that I don't know? So I feel like tanta mile and coropat core co Pat embody that like to the utmost degree. And they sense things in the show before anyone else senses them. And they kind of are the ones that cue the rest of the tribe. So they kind of have the power to tell everyone, whoa, you need to everyone you know, it's time to be to be aware, to be scared. Okay, wait, it's okay. Everything's calm. It's going to be okay, you know. So they have a really interesting part of the story, because they're kind of guiding the tribe, and they're taking cues from Old Deuteronomy to to guide what other cats are supposed to think and feel, which is really cool. Yeah,

[17:27] Speaker 2: I, again, I It's such a fascinating part because you you do cue some things before you are a little I've always debated whether they're even the twins are even in line or eligible for the Jellicle choice. Curious to hear, do you ever like did you think you had a chance to ever be picked,

[17:52] Speaker 3: you know, at this place and time during the show? No, I think that we had a very specific job and we were almost needed in our tribe. We couldn't be picked because we had to be there to sense and to tell everyone, um, what was happening. So no, I don't think I ever was thinking from the standpoint of, Oh, I hope Cora co Pat and I get picked to go to the heavy side lair. You know, I don't think that that was ever in my character's head. It was more helping the other cats who were eligible tell their stories.

[18:33] Speaker 2: What about Victoria? So, what was her like? Your first time going on? What did you try to embrace with Victoria's story?

[18:42] Speaker 3: Um, Victoria definitely the inno innocence, but, uh, kind of about to lose the innocence. You know, in her solo, she's just kind of, it's actually pretty sensual. She's just discovering herself, and, um, she's at an age where she's a kitten, but she's about to cross over into the teen years. And so to me, Victoria just embodies the wide eyed in a sense of that we all had at one point in our lives. And she's beautiful, she's life, She's elegant, and she doesn't really know it. I think she doesn't realize her beauty. And I think she also is judgment free, like with, with things with Grizabella and with, you know, she's young, and so she hasn't been and had any like impressions put on her yet, really, other than what she's observing from the older cats and so, yeah, I just tried to embody an innocence, but in a sense, that was kind of on its way out. I think,

[19:54] Speaker 2: yeah, it's it's interesting, because it is one of your dances as Victoria is. Is legitimately a coming of age dance. It's like it seems to be interpreted that way pretty consistently. The part I'm curious, though, is it seems like with her, the cat's family tree is undefined. And so one area with Victoria, I've always been curious, and I've heard maybe I'm the only one that thinks this way. But there's a couple of schools of thought. Of is her relationship with Grizabella? So do you think she knew her before at all? Like, one theory is that's her mom, or is it someone that she just met and is afraid? Like, is trying to be like, Oh, I, I could, like, she used to be me, basically,

[20:43] Speaker 3: I think, from my point of view, and I think either answer could be justified, and you'd probably get a different answer from everyone. And I'm sure you have gotten a different answer, but I I don't think that she is related to me. It's kind of like a wow. You i She used to be young and beautiful, like me and wow. What has she gone through to go from that point where I am to this point that's so sad and broken, but I think she kind of has some non judgmental viewpoint. Because of her innocence and because of her beauty and kind of relating to what Grizabella once was.

[21:32] Speaker 2: Yeah, there's so much with all these characters, and that's what I think makes the show so interesting. Totally. You can really interpret it so many different ways. And I, at this point, I have with most, most every cat, yeah, in detail, but it's what makes it kind of fun. I do want to kind of switch gears a little bit and ask about a couple particular performances. So I would love to hear about your time back you said, full circle in Kansas City. What was that first production like? There was it, not, you know, filled with friends and family. Like, how did that? How did you handle that first performance?

[22:06] Speaker 3: It was pretty crazy. I literally, because it starts broad daylight with the timing of the show, which is weird, because usually, like the lighting, like, we didn't do the green eyes at the beginning, because it was broad daylight, and we would have been running around with these, like, green eyes on So, so it was weird. It was a little different than usual. And I could see, truly, at least, like 30 people I knew in the first section, all my dance teachers, all, and so I really had to, you know, we're professionals, but it's, you know, anyone like that little kid in you kind of comes out and you want to be like, Oh my god, I see you, you know, but of course, I couldn't do that. But it, it was hard to because it's, it's a show where you are in the audience and where you especially as, you know, I roll out as tanta mile and pan the audience. And so I saw everyone right away. And, I mean, it was, the thrill was just, it was the biggest full circle moment, and I as a kid, I don't think I was the first person that someone would have thought would have made it to this point. I it took me a while to kind of come into my own as a dancer and with my technique and things, and so it just felt so I was. I knew that young me would have been so proud, and yeah, and the other part was I had told everyone, because I did theater at Starlight growing up, and I didn't remember it being that hot, because I think I was a kid, and I just wasn't realizing and I was like, you guys, don't worry. It's really not that bad. Like, you're gonna be fine. There's air conditioning on the stage. And, like, literally, three minutes in, I was like, Oh my gosh, someone is gonna pass out. They also had, because Starlight is so huge, they had these monitors that, like, did close up videos of us so people in the back could see. And so the first night, before we knew our makeup was gonna be smearing off, there were close ups of all of us with like half of our faces on. And because everyone was just sweating. It was, it was really crazy. But beyond that, beyond the heat, it was, it was so thrilling. And I think just a moment that anyone dreams of being able to come back where you began, and go back to your roots and have all those people there that supported you and believed in you. And I think it was special for all of us, because it, you know, it makes them proud that what they did guided me to this point in my life. And, yeah, my mom was like, in the front row all eight performances in Kansas City. My parents were like, I mean, my friends were like, there she is again. But yeah, it was really cool. It was it's just something that was really, really special. That's

[24:41] Speaker 2: awesome. You are kind of lucky. You didn't have to do green eyes, because I've, you know, there's been people who have popped out and, like, scared their parents, and, you know, been able to jump out in front of people they know. And it's that's got to be, I can only imagine how hard that is,

[24:53] Speaker 3: totally, totally, I think I got to do that a few other times when in different cities where. People were, but I'm kind of glad we didn't have to do it in Kansas City, because it would have been a little overwhelming, I think.

[25:07] Speaker 2: So I'm always curious how, I'm sure you had a couple people come to the show in Kansas City that did not know cats. How did you prep them for what they were going to go see?

[25:20] Speaker 3: You know, I think, like at the very depending on who I was talking to, at the very just basic level, sometimes I would say, don't even try to understand what's going on. Enjoy watching all of these amazing dancers dance their booties off. Enjoy the classic music that you, I'm sure, no, to some extent, enjoy the connection between the cats and so that would kind of be like the basis, a basic level of it. But then, if we were really going more in depth, I would, I would talk about how there actually is, I think, a really beautiful meaning of the story, and a beautiful a beautiful story of connection and of tribe, and of how we all need one another, and of not judging a book by its cover. And I think when people kind of are given a tip to look for that, then they do have a little more knowledge of what's actually happening. But on a basic level, I would say, just enjoy watching everyone dance for their lives. And, you know, maybe don't try, if it's your first time, maybe don't try and, like, read past what's actually what you're, you know, the spectacle that you're seeing. Yeah,

[26:33] Speaker 2: I needed you before I saw it the first time, because I went in looking for a neat, tidy story, like I do, as someone who watches sitcoms like all day on reruns as background noise, like I like pod a, plot B, time together, totally go on it. And I did not get that.

[26:56] Speaker 2: so I was more slightly confused, a little angry, but to your point, I did as I made my jokes about it and wrote about it and put my, you know, my thoughts, out into the world. It was a that was amazing to watch, because as someone who can't dance or can't sing, I'm like that. That was spectacular. So I think that's a good way to prep it. I wish someone told me to drink or do something before, but that might have been tough in 95 outside

[27:26] Speaker 3: probably there. But, yeah, I had, I don't know if I should say this, but I had a couple friends that came and they were high, and they said they had, like, the time of their lives after the show. I didn't know that they were high, and they were like, that was the best thing that, like, they were just it made me really happy, because they were so excited. But they, I just had not had a reaction like theirs. I mean, they thought it was, like, the best thing they had ever their dancers, too. So, like, you know, they also just appreciated it. But they, like, had a little edge, and I think that they it worked to their advantage, because they had the most amazing time. Yeah, I

[28:02] Speaker 2: forget where I if I said this or wrote this or put it out there, but it did remind me a little of, I think the movie was, this is 40 where I think Seth Rogen and Paul Rudd go see they do, they do drugs, and go see Cirque du Soleil, yes, yes, yes. That's like, that's kind of how I felt, a little bit about cats. It's like, you know, I'm not encouraging anybody to go do drugs, but that that was part of the experience, totally for sure. So changing gears a little bit, I want to go into my rapid fire and then get to the million dollar question. Okay, so my first Rapid Fire question is, if you could play any cat, and I know you got to play a couple, but let's say male, female, anything, whether you're physically capable of doing it, or, you know, that's in your vocal range, or whatever, if you could be anybody, who would you want to play for

[28:50] Speaker 3: one night? I would love to play rumble teaser. I think she's such a fun character, and our rumble teaser was just so amazing that she made you want to get to live what she was living. Such a fun cat. And it's more of a that's more of a okay, that's more of a realistic answer, like one that I could actually play. But I think it'd be really fun to play like Tugger like to go out there and just command the stage, and everyone loves Tugger, and his number is so fun, and his relationship with all the cats is so fun. So that's one that I don't think I will ever have the chance to play, but I think it'd be really fun. Yeah, I

[29:34] Speaker 2: do kind of love just thinking about this question, because it's either the which one is just the character you kind of love the personality type, or is it a personality type that's just not at all like you? So there's a lot of times it's like, that's not me. So it'd be fun to do it once.

[29:48] Speaker 3: It's funny, because I actually don't really like, like, Tugger kind of bothers me. Like, as like, the character was kind of annoying to me every night, just his like, arrogance and. But I think it'd be really fun to play, if that makes sense, like as tanta mile, I was, like, annoyed by him, but I would love to get to do it. You know for

[30:09] Speaker 2: sure, I think it's a good answer, because it's, it is such a fun track. And you know, you kind of get a lot of freedom to do whatever you want. So much

[30:21] Speaker 2: leads well into who is your favorite and least favorite character?

[30:26] Speaker 3: Well, I'm gonna, okay, I'll say the obvious answer, which is Victoria. She's been my favorite since I first saw the show. I She's my favorite to perform. She's just a really special cat, I think. But I actually, I could argue for every single cat, but I love Gus his number. Just it would really like make me teary eyed almost every night. There's just there was something so tender and so relatable to him, telling his story and looking back with such fondness on his life. And I just, I really, really love that character. I think it's really sweet, and I think him and jelly is number is just beautiful. My least favorite, that's really hard. I think every cat same like, I don't know that that's hard, but I actually weirdly think my least favorite, like as a cat, is probably Tugger, because I think he's annoying. But again, I would want to play him so I don't know his like, cockiness kind of bothers me. But, um, so I guess Tucker. But I also like, love the character, if that makes sense,

[31:32] Speaker 2: yeah. Well, I think the way I kind of like this question is, is which personality wise, like, which cat bothers? Yeah, like, they all have their they all serve their purpose in the show. Totally

[31:42] Speaker 3: at that exactly, but his personality, like, is annoying. Would it be fun to play? Yes, but he's kind of annoying. Now,

[31:54] Speaker 3: Um, like with lyrics, because the Jellicle Ball is my favorite number. I mean the chills I got lit. I mean every night, no matter how exhausted I was, no matter how hard the day was, no matter if we had flown and had five layover, whatever, like, every time we would get to the ball, and the lights would come, and you could just feel the energy from the audience. I there's just nothing like that. So I will say the ball. To

[32:26] Speaker 2: ball's going, it is. It's interesting, looking back now at it, of like, the favorite part, it's an orgy, oh,

[32:35] Speaker 3: like, completely, which I didn't really know until I was a part of the show, honestly, because I hadn't seen it since I saw it as a kid. I did. I missed seeing the revival on Broadway because I was out on the road with another show, so I didn't really know until we were learning the show that that's what it was. So that was a fun surprise as an adult to be like, Oh, how did I miss that? Well,

[32:59] Speaker 2: there's a couple other in the show that I'm like, I didn't pick that up, but now that you're telling me this, wow, what a this is definitely a different story than what I was pitched totally to go see it was the longest running show, but totally

[33:15] Speaker 2: cut that out. So I like asking this because you were on pre pandemic, but you kind of were on right around the time the pandemic started. So which cat do you think at the beginning of the pandemic in 2020? Was probably doing all right? Which one is probably was thriving a little bit in the pandemic, like it was still okay, because it was a hard time for everybody. But which cat do you think personality wise, was like, All right, March 2020, I'm still doing

[33:42] Speaker 3: okay. Oh, gosh, hmm, that's a very interesting question. Um, okay, I kind of have two answers. One is the Gumby cat, Jenny, any dogs? Because she, I don't know. I'm picturing her just like, lazily sitting on the car boot, which I think she would have, she would have enjoyed the part of the pandemic where she just got to, like, lays around and chill, and then I feel like she still would have, like, gotten up and done her little house chores, and so she probably would have been fulfilled by that, um, but I also think he's becoming my answer to a lot of questions, weirdly, but I kind of think Tugger would have been thriving, because I Just think he doesn't really give a crap about anything, and he'd be like, whatever, like, this is life now, and I'm just gonna still be cool. And, you know, I feel like he just kind of would have, like, sloughed it off and still been able to just be his cocky self and not really cared. Um, so I think they both would have thrived.

[34:38] Speaker 2: I love it. I this. I've asked this to a few people now, and there's been a couple answers. So now I don't know who to credit. Which are the ones I said, which are the ones other people said, but my favorite answers from this had been, I do think Tugger would do well, yeah, Jenny would do well. I love Victoria becoming a Tiktok influencer was, I think a very possible. I do think twins probably. Were well, were well stocked. You know, like when you couldn't get any, any, anything, they

[35:07] Speaker 2: down. And I just totally, I just think, um, Buster for Jones probably lives in a big mansion and was already eating his way through life. And didn't really change you

[35:17] Speaker 3: are. So right? I did. He didn't even cross my mind, but I think he would be thriving still to this day in this world.

[35:26] Speaker 2: So Okay, now the million dollar question I have argued at length with everybody who will argue with me about this topic that I don't think Grizabella was the right choice. I can give the argument for Grizabella now, and I understand it, but what I want to hear is, is that if you are Old Deuteronomy, and you are picking on the night of the ball, are you choosing Grizabella, or are you picking somebody else? And why? So

[35:53] Speaker 3: my initial reaction was, like, no, it's supposed to be Grizabella. Like, that's the whole story. And that's like, the point. And I don't know if my answer is going to completely make sense, but as I was kind of thinking about it, so I feel like I don't want it to be Grizabella, because I feel like she was finally just accepted, and now she's being sent off, and she didn't really have a chance to, like, actually, like, enjoy getting to know all these cats who have now accepted her, which is kind of sad. So I feel like I would love for her to get a little more time with the tribe. It's like, Oh, we love you and we choose you, and now bye, you know. So I kind of wish that they got more time with her, and as a result. I don't even know if he's a choice, but I kind of think everything should flip, and because Deuteronomy helped make this happen where Grizabella was accepted, and he kind of did what he set out to do in making the cats embrace her that he should now get to go after, after, kind of that journey that it should be his turn to go to the heavy side lair, which I don't really know what that would look like if he was not going to be like, I choose me like plot twist, but I feel like, in a way, somehow, as a, almost a thanks for what he did for Grizabella And what he's done for years for the tribe, that maybe it's his turn, I don't know.

[37:25] Speaker 2: So I think it makes a lot of sense. I, first of all, I totally agree with you on Grizabella. I have said that many times, yeah, podcast that like, it's kind of sad if you're bringing her back in, why murder her right away? Like, let her she can be next year's choice.

[37:42] Speaker 3: That's, I think she should be next year's choice. Live with her for a year, let her have a fun life with the tribe, you know, and then send her off.

[37:50] Speaker 2: Yeah. So that is the redemption story, but it is a quick redemption. So I'm very much with you on that point. The Old Deuteronomy one is really interesting because I have not. I don't know if he is an option or not. And it gets really weird to think about, because a lot of the old deuteronomies don't think they are an option, right? A lot of the mucus traps think I'm next in line, right? If he's next in line at some point, he has to be an option. Totally, totally. So how does that play? Is there a time, is there a eventual point where he does pick himself? Yeah, I think it's fair that this is the year

[38:25] Speaker 3: like, when it feels like he accomplished this, like he just did this amazing feat of through channeling different, through syllabub, through the twins, through Victoria, accepting Grizabella. You know, he just made this happen. And so to me, it's like, now it's his turn, you know, whether he's eligible or not. But I guess at the end of the day, everyone is kind of should be eligible, you know, I mean, in some way, so

[38:54] Speaker 2: it depends on how this is, where it can get a little more philosophical, is actually making the decision right? And what is the criteria? And is that change year for year, I only get one example, totally one show that's been

[39:09] Speaker 3: totally cats part two. You need to write cats part two. I think

[39:13] Speaker 2: I have offered but I'm not qualified to do that. I

[39:17] Speaker 3: don't know you. I think you are more qualified than most of us. I am more qualified in

[39:21] Speaker 2: the background, but in terms of writing a musical, I am not qualified. You just need

[39:29] Speaker 2: a consultant, creative consultant. But it does boil down to those factors, and that's kind of how I argue each time, of why I don't think it's her not, not how I originally made the argument for a very different reason, but, but I do think that you, if you are claiming redemption, it feels like a really rough redemption story totally, and that's the most common Grizabella defense. So I love that you, you know, put some everyone that you know, you start to think about it is slowly getting more people. On the anti Grizabella train,

[40:01] Speaker 3: yeah? Because initially I was like, No, of course, like, it's Grizabella, and that's the point of the story, is that it's Grizabella. But when you really sit and think about it, you know, it's an interesting journey for her,

[40:13] Speaker 2: yeah, it's rough. It's really rough. But I do like Old Deuteronomy. I think it's an interesting pick, and it's very much unknown if that's even an option. So I'm all for

[40:25] Speaker 3: us totally. If it's an option, I think it should be him.

[40:29] Speaker 2: I still think what I want the tour to do, and I've, I've proposed this, it's clearly been shot down, is I think that if you're in a place for like, eight days, you should let somebody different get picked every night and take them either out of the show or, like, bring back a younger version of them. I

[40:46] Speaker 3: love that, like an alternative ending every night. So it's like, Hey, if you come on Monday,

[40:50] Speaker 2: the first day we're here, you're gonna get Grizabella. So now who are we picking next

[41:00] Speaker 3: that is. I mean, there could definitely be a pretty cool parody like that. I really like that idea.

[41:06] Speaker 2: Yeah, there's not options there. There are

[41:12] Speaker 2: every time I bring any different one up, though, it's like, show's also been around for 40 years, and it's doing fairly well without any changes. So this is true. They don't need to listen to me, and they should just keep doing what they're doing, which is printing money.

[41:25] Speaker 3: I'm guessing they're gonna keep doing what they're doing, but it doesn't hurt to try one

[41:28] Speaker 2: day, one day, I'm gonna get a sit down with Andrew Lloyd Webber, absolutely.

[41:32] Speaker 3: I believe it. I believe it.

[41:37] Speaker 2: So I wanted to ask, what are you currently working on and how can we stay in touch on social media.

[41:42] Speaker 3: Thank you for asking. As you know, it's kind of a rough time in our community right now, not a lot of auditions, not a lot happening. So I'm auditioning. I'm figuring out what's next, but I actually I've been teaching ballet classes. It's almost like Broadway ballet, because it's all of my musical theater friends that come to my classes. It's so cool. It's this class full of professionals and a lot of my cats friends actually are in class every week, and it's been a really fun way to keep dancing together and connect. So anyone is always welcome. I post my schedule on my Instagram, which is bizarre. It's at y, u, z, z, z, 12. So at Yale's 12. And I always, you know, kind of post, what I'm doing on there, and hopefully something, you know, the next thing will come sooner than later, and our business can keep thriving. And you know, that's what I really hope for, for all of us, but for now, just trying to stay busy and stay dancing in any way that I can, and non professionals

[42:47] Speaker 2: can come, right? So if you're listening absolutely in New York, you can come.

[42:50] Speaker 3: Anyone is welcome. It's a it's an open door.

[42:54] Speaker 2: I love it. Well. Thank you so much for humoring me, answering all these bizarre questions, making a non grisabelle argument. I appreciate you taking the time to come on the podcast, of course.

[43:17] Speaker 2: Thanks everyone for listening to this episode of The mom cat died, the podcast breakdown of the catastrophe. To follow along. You can subscribe on Apple podcast, Spotify, Stitcher, or anywhere else you listen to podcasts, follow us on Twitter and Instagram. At the wrong cat died, or check on our website, the wrong cat died.com. You.