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[0:00] Speaker 1: Hi, I'm Ariana Grande, Hi, I'm Cynthia Erivo, and you're listening to the Broadway Podcast Network. Visit vpm.fm to discover more. There's a cat over here. There's a cat over there. I'm the wrong one died. I'm the wrong one died. Welcome to

[0:30] Mike Abrams: the wrong cat died of the podcast breakdown of the cast, atrophy. I'm your host, Mike Abrams, and today we have another amazing guest. She was Victoria on the sixth US national tour of cats just before the pandemic. So welcome. Caitlin Bona, thank you for joining me. Hi. Thank you so much for having me. I'm excited to have you on I know I do. I have some Victoria theories, and so I always love to hear kind of the take there. But before we get to that, you started the show in 2019 but what was your experience with the show prior to that? Like, how many times have you seen cast? Did you grow up with it?

[1:03] Speaker 2: So I was not one of the people that grew up with it. I know a lot of our cast members. Did they all like, you know, watch the VHS until they broke it. I was not that person. I saw a couple regional productions. I had a couple friends that actually they both played Victoria in two different regional productions. So I had seen those when I was younger, but I actually didn't even see the movie until I got a call back for Victoria, and then I was like, Maybe I should watch the movie. Yeah, I it. It just I grew up as a ballet dancer, so I had never really been super into theater. Um, so like, I had done, like, a couple musicals when I was younger, but it was mostly ballet. So I had just never really branched out and watched a ton of musicals or anything, like, if anything, I was watching ballet, and that was it. So I just I had never really seen the video until I got my call back, and then I watched him, like, wow, this is amazing. How did I never see this before? So,

[1:57] Mike Abrams: yeah, so I do find Victoria always so interesting, because it is usually a ballet background, or a very heavy dance background, versus most the rest is theater or tumbler or singer. You know, it's like there is that kind of more musical theater, like extreme junkie growing up, and your was more of like dance or ballet. So you saw some regional productions. You said you had friends? Was that, like, later in like, that wasn't young? Was it that was probably, yeah,

[2:26] Speaker 2: almost I was, um, probably, like, teenager, yeah, maybe, like, 13 to 15, somewhere around there, yes.

[2:34] Mike Abrams: Okay, so it's still teenagers, still early. So at that age, did how much of it like, Did you Did you recognize how sexual and over the top, and some of that is at that age?

[2:46] Speaker 2: Oh no. I had no idea what was going on. Honestly, no clue. And I still didn't even watching the recording, like being 19 years old. I still didn't really understand how sexual it was, until we got into the rehearsal room and it was like, oh,

[3:00] Mike Abrams: okay, yeah. So then you get told the story, basically, right, yeah, okay, so you've only seen a couple regional productions as a teenager, and then you get a call back. You're, you know, auditioning. Get a call back, and you say, Okay, now I'm gonna watch the 1998 movie, yeah, still don't really kind of understand what's going on. And then you get you, I'm, you like, you land the job, and you get into auditions,

[3:20] Speaker 2: yeah? I my audition process was a bit different than everyone else's, because I had done, I actually wasn't even planning on auditioning for cats. I was in New York City. I was living in Pittsburgh at the time, and I had been in New York City for I got a call back for Phantom of the Opera. And I was like, Oh, the audition for cats is the next day. I should do that because, like, I knew it was a dancer show. And I was like, Oh, I would love to be Victoria, because I've had friends that were that did it. And I was like, you know, it's such like the white leot, the white unitard, and it's very balletic. I was like, I would love to do that. So I went to the open call with, you know, like 600 other people. I somehow got a vocal call back for a couple days later. Absolutely bombed. It did terrible. My voice cracked like 10 times. I sang like 16 bars, and she's like, is that all? I'm like, yep. And I just, I was like, Well, that was it. I'm done. I'm never gonna hear back from them again. And then, like, a month and a half later, I got an email saying I had a call back for Victoria. And then I was like, Oh, this is serious. And I didn't realize it, but they had pretty much cast the entire show at that point. Like I was one of the last people that they cast. Wow, because they had a cat's boot camp situation that was, like a week long. They all called it cats camp. So, like, the entire cast knew each other, because they were all at this cats camp, and pretty much everyone that was there ended up getting hired. But it was like a week long thing of learning all the choreography and learning different parts, and it was more so they kind of knew that they were going to hire everyone, just like, placing people and figuring out, like, what parts they wanted people in. And I wasn't at that. And I had no idea. I was like, How does everyone know each other? But I was one of the only people that wasn't there me, and I think, like, one or two other people were not at this. So my audition was a little bit different than that. And then I had my Victoria call back, and that was. Like, three days long of just Victoria stuff and learning the entire we learned a lot of the show and a lot of choreography. So, yeah, that was Yeah.

[5:08] Mike Abrams: So as kind of a ballet dancer, Victoria doesn't sing all that much, right? I mean, just, God, no wonder I was curious, like, how that's like, is that, like, a major part of the audition, because it feels like it's such a dancing role. And, I mean, there's even rumors that, because of how little Victoria sings and dance, that she's actually deaf, as, like, one of the writers

[5:31] Speaker 2: that is one of the rumors, and apparently, like, white cats are a lot of times deaf, like that is really, yeah, we did. We did research. Makes sense, like I we read this whole thing. I think they could be I think it's more common that they're blind too. I could be wrong about that, but I do. We all looked that up because Chrissy Cartwright had said something about that, and because she doesn't sing all that much in the original. Original, I believe syllable and Victoria were supposed to be one character, but they couldn't find someone that they liked their dancing enough to and also, they're singing like they couldn't find, like a technical ballet dancer that could also sing up in, you know, super high octaves. So yeah, I mean, I did sing. I sang through the whole show. I had a mic. I sang every single ensemble song. I didn't have any features. Actually, one feature I say, I said, like a snake. One of them the COVID reprises. I said, like a snake. And that was my starring moment. But yeah, so it is more common that white cats are deaf, so that is definitely one of the theories for that.

[6:36] Mike Abrams: But there was, yeah, interesting. I did not know that, and I didn't the blind. The only blind rumor is the character that plays, the actor that plays Gus in the 1998 movie was blind when he did it. Oh, I didn't know. And so that was why, if you watch the movie closely, they like, walk him up, yeah, basically someone is holding his arm, and they carry him up. And he's an, you know, he was a knighted, older, very famous British guy, and he was in his 90s, I think, when they did it. And so that was just kind of like a very so that's the only blind rumor I've got in the cats universe at this point. But I do, I didn't realize that that came also from my cats being there with that makes a lot more sense. Yeah.

[7:17] Speaker 2: So that is, that is a common thing, um. But, yeah, the singing was not, definitely not the main part of my audition process, like my, actually, I think my callbacks were literally all dancing. The first round of callbacks we did, I think there were like 40 of us. We did a ton of dancing, then they did a cut, then we did another dance, and then they did another cut, and then I think we sang, but it was very it was like 16 bars from the addressing of cats, and that was all they had me sing. And then they did another cut. And then there were, I think, four of us left. And then we did like Victoria. We did the whole part. They brought in one of the dance captains from Broadway, and we did all of the Victoria partnering scenes. And then they did another cut, and then there were two of us, and we did, like, every single Victoria feature, all the partnering. We did the crazy, like, upside down lifts. We did a ton of lifts, like Kim Craven, our associate was like, have you you've done this lift before? Right? I was like, yeah, totally never done it before. But you never say no in the audition room. It's always yes, of course, I've done it before. So yeah, it was the singing was very, very short at my callback. It was also they were looking for Demeter and a swing, I believe. So they also had, like, they had us doing like 16 bars, and then they had the demeters, like singing the entirety of my cavity. So, but yeah, no. And then I, a couple days later, came back for a final call back. I think it was maybe like three girls for Victoria and a couple people for Demeter and Andy blankie was there. We had scheduled. It was supposed to be like 10 to six the audition. It was like half hour long. We we did the dances for Andy, we sang our songs, and that was it, and it was a half hour long, and I got a call less than 24 hours later that I booked it, wow. Okay, so it was the singing was in there, but I think it was especially for Victoria. It's definitely more about the dancing. It was, yeah, like they had to make sure that I could hold a tune and that I was, like, tone deaf, and that I could, you know, mix well enough with the ensemble, but it was not like the main part, because I don't have any features,

[9:25] Mike Abrams: yeah, they have to make sure that when you're singing with the group, you're not going to throw it off like that's the ball you're setting there, yeah? So then you you land the role, and this is the beginning of the tour, right? So this is right when the tour is taking off, and you miss cats camp. So cats camp, but you're going into the, you know, the whole kind of rehearsals and everything leading up to the tour. So I always love to hear what was told about your character, like, what was the story you were told about Victoria in that kind of lead up to the show? Like, what, what background are you given for her? So

[10:00] Speaker 2: we had, we had an entire day where we sat with Chrissy Cartwright, who was one of our I don't want to get her title wrong. I believe she was the assistant director, but that could be her wrong title. So, but she has done she was like, Jillian Lynn's like, right hand woman like she knew, knows everything about cats. Like this woman is cats, like she eats, breathes cats, and she knows every possible storyline, like every little detail about every single one. So we had, like, I think, six hours where we sat in a circle in chairs and we talked just about the story of cats. And like all the different theories of everything, there was one theory she kind of, she said, like, everyone has it can be this, it can be this, it can be this. So there was one theory that Victoria was monkey strap and grizabella's daughter, and that's why she's the one that touches Grizabella at the end. But it was just kind of that she was like, Victoria is, like, the young, one of the youngest ones in things. She's one of the kittens. So she's like, monkey strap is very protective over her throughout the whole show. Like, there's a lot of times where, like, I go to do something, and monk was like, Absolutely not. I mean, like, block me. And so it was a lot of people thinking that monk is my dad. Um, oh, sorry. I hit the microphone. And we also all got three different words to describe our cat. Like everyone was mine were I wrote them down. Mine were innocent, romantic and UN self conscious. So those were, that was, like, the story I was given for Victoria. So she's, like, you have to really embody these three words throughout the whole show. And like, Victoria's whole thing is that she's, you know, discovering herself. She's kind of discovering her body. And during the ball, you know, the as we discussed the more sexual themes of it, she's, you know, having cat sex in the middle of the Jellicle Ball. So losing her

[12:00] Speaker 2: which I didn't know that's what was happening until we were in rehearsal. And yeah, there were some I wasn't expecting so many words to be used. And they were,

[12:09] Mike Abrams: yeah, it goes back to why I asked. I always start with when you see it first, because I saw it first as an adult, and it still kind of was just like, oh, this is like, I'm not. I was like, that's a lot. Like, the ball's a lot. But it didn't really piece like, Oh, it's just a giant orgy, yeah. It's like, oh, that dance is really sexual. Oh, I didn't realize that they're basically doing it on stage. Like, it kind of like it resonated me with this is, like, in the mccavity song is extremely sexual. Just so many of them are very, very sexual. But as a kid, there's like, there were kids everywhere. And so I'm like, clearly, it's going over everyone's head. And now that I've researched the show and the background of the story, it's like, no these it is as sexual as it as it sounds like, there is a lot happening with the meter and Macavity and abusive relationship and Victoria having, you know, fine, coming of age on stage with one of the other cats, like the ball, a nine minute orgy in the middle of the show. And

[13:10] Speaker 2: her solo is about her, you know, touching herself like that is the whole thing that's like the shaking and everything like it's her discovering herself and the word, I don't know if I can say this, but you can, okay, the word orgasm was used, probably, like, six during my audition, actually, not even, like in the room, like it was used, obviously in the room, but that was used in my audition. She's like, and this is an orgasm, and this is an orgasm. I'm like, oh gosh. Like, I had no idea that's what it was about. And she was just explaining what was happening. I was like, oh, okay, got it.

[13:43] Mike Abrams: Did you go, like, did you like, think back to when you saw it the first time, being like, Oh, my God, what did I watch? Yep,

[13:48] Speaker 2: yeah. I was like, Oh, I didn't. I was very unaware that that's what was happening. But now that I know, now I can't unsee it, like, that's, that's all I see. That's

[13:58] Mike Abrams: the part that I just still blows my mind. Is that now that I've learned so much of this, and I've not watched it fall through in a while, but it's like, I It's on tour now, and I like, want to see it again and be like, Oh, okay, wow, this is as aggressive as as the story says, Yeah, I love that you were told that Grizz, potentially was your mother, because I've heard from a few other Victorians that that might not have been the way that they Ever thought about that, and they've always thought it was potentially Demeter or somebody else. It does seem pretty assumed that monk shop is your dad, yes.

[14:28] Speaker 2: And there had also been, it was kind of like there were a bunch of different ways it could have gone, because she had also said, like, Jenny ani dots, pretty much, was the mother of, like, all of the different kittens, and that she took care of them. And it's a lot of with cats, like one person, one is the mother, but then just takes care of all the kittens, even in like normal, like the animal, yeah. So it was kind of like there was speculation, but yeah, I think the Groce Bella theory is definitely could be accurate, and would make sense for why Victoria was the one. Touch her. Yeah?

[15:00] Mike Abrams: That that's what all the like, the rumor mill stuff kind of centers around, is you're the first one to reach out, yeah? And that would be potentially why. And it also could be a little bit of like the coming of age story by being abandoned by a mother and then having that, like first experience. So that's kind of the other reasons. Did you get told about being deaf or mute in the like, was that brought up? Or was that just a rumor? Mail later? Yeah,

[15:25] Speaker 2: I don't, I don't think she brought it up. Maybe it wasn't. It was definitely not something we talked about when we were doing that, like big, not like a round table, but like the big discussion. I feel like she maybe had said something about it at one time. But I think it was something like we were just talking about at lunch one day, and everybody was like, oh, did you know that, like, white cats are normally deaf. I'm like, Oh, that makes sense. Yeah, that's why I think in some productions, Victoria doesn't sing at all, like she doesn't even have a microphone.

[15:50] Mike Abrams: Yeah, there definitely are a few. And I, I always just assumed that was just the you didn't do the 16 bars in rehearsal, and they just really want the dancer. And so it's like, just, it's probably not super necessary if you've got the dancing. But, yeah, I didn't know if there was any, like, rationale behind it. It seems like there's not a lot of rationale behind all of it, besides staging. It does seem like there's definitely some staging that makes some sense when, when you were doing your six hour, like learning the story, what's the other thing that surprised you most? Like, when you were hearing the story, oh, there

[16:22] Speaker 2: was a lot about Macavity and the going back and forth between that. Like, I think she had said that Grizabella had fallen in with Macavity, and then she, like, really lost her way. And like, Demeter and bomb had also, you know, been with Macavity, but they were able to get out. But Grizabella, like, just fell in too deep, and that's why she got exiled, basically, which I didn't know that. And there was a whole, like, obviously, the Grizabella and monk used to be together thing, and it's just like, every single cat had their own, like, different storyline. And it was a lot, it was a lot of information to interpret in one day, because you're getting like, all these crazy things. And like, Mo go Jerry and rumple teaser. Like their whole thing is that they were actually with Macavity too. Like they were kind of assistants, but they weren't, like, in it super deep, and they were actually, like, really sweet, but they just were, like, kind of told by Macavity what to do. And we're thinking of like, when they got older, and maybe they'd be like, part of that. So it was, every different cat has their own unique storyline. So I've been,

[17:27] Mike Abrams: I feel like I need to have the, you know, the six hour session. Yes, I've been slowly piecing this together by talking to different people, and I've gotten a lot of different variations. And it sounds like even the six hour session, though, there's some consistent truths, but then there's some stuff that differs from, oh, absolutely, country to country, cast to cast, and everything in between. And that's what's kind of fascinating to me, is something that there's a lot of Broadway where it's just story is very clear, and it's played this way and sung this way, and there are no changes, and there's nothing, and cats leaves a lot of interpretation, yeah, and I feel like that's why it's probably lasted so long, is that there's just so many different ways you can go every night and see a slightly different version, or someone's slight take, or I think even Victoria danced like the coming of age dance was with different characters and different ones. Because did you do it with? Was yours with Play Doh, I did it

[18:19] Speaker 2: with Play Doh, okay, I think there are some productions that do Alan So, and then there's also another name for Plato that I can't think of. There's renames something like that. Yeah, it said it's his name is in the name of cats like he okay, it's Ed metas. But that is a character that was, I guess, ultimately the name was changed or the character was cut, just kind of like syllabub is also named Jemima In some productions. Like all of the cats had a million different names, and there's also an Electra at some point, I

[18:52] Mike Abrams: think Jemima got renamed intentionally. Yeah, I think Jemima got canceled, and so they moved to syllabub when you were on and going on tour, did you, were you, like any of your friends or family that were able to come see you? Was it anybody's first experience with cats?

[19:13] Mike Abrams: experience no one would see. So how do you how do you prep them like, what did you tell them before the show? What'd you say? Hey, here's what you're gonna go see.

[19:21] Speaker 2: I said I'm the one in the bright white unitard. And that's all I gave up. That's it. That's what I said. My my amazing family. Actually, they all, I think eight of them, like a couple of my my godmother and her husband and my godfather and his wife, my aunt. I call them my aunt and uncle, but just to clarify so my godmother and my godfather and two of my aunts and my mom and my dad all drove up to Providence to come see opening night, and I think they were just so in awe of the fact that I was like the main dancer. They're like, you just turned 20, and you're doing like this broad. But they. Had no idea what was, yeah, like, I think they were more just in shock by the fat. Like, I told them I was, like, one of the main dancers, but they had no idea. Like, they're like, I mean, I wasn't, but they're like, You're the star of the show. You're the only one we see, which, I mean, is fair. When I'm in a white unit target, it's really easy. Yeah, especially stand out, it was reflecting your

[20:23] Mike Abrams: own time. Yeah, you get your own like, you get a full moment, really, by yourself, which in cats, isn't really that many cats that get that, that opportunity, yeah,

[20:33] Speaker 2: like, every cat has their own, like, little like feature, but I'm the only one that has like, a dance solo that it's just me on the stage, like most office obviously, has like, his whole dance thing, but that's like a whole number. I'm the only one that had like, a moment of just like silence. I'm the only one on stage like that was. So that was really special, and I'm getting emotional thing about it. So, yeah, it was. I didn't really give them any warning. I just said, you know, I'm the one in white. It'll be easy to pick me out. And they were all just like, in shock that this was my, this is my first professional dance job that I ever had. Like, this is my first job. So they were in shock that this was what I was doing. And most of them had never seen me dance like this. They had seen, you know, a couple like ballet shows, but they had never seen me do anything like this. And they were all like, Oh my god. So yeah, it was less so about the story for them, and more about the oh my god, my niece is the star of this show

[21:28] Mike Abrams: in their heads. So yeah, I mean, that's a really cool experience. I do think, like I find it fascinating, because I was not given any prep for what I was going to see, and I now kind of always think about, what would I tell somebody going to watch it for the first time, but it's different for you. It's okay, just come see me. Here's here's my part. Forget the rest, forget the other. You know, whatever hours, but I'm here, and you do, like, since you're on stage a lot, because, you know, the a lot of the cats kind of dance to a lot of stuff, you are very easy to pick out because of the white I do want to talk a little bit about you were in the group that was on tour when the pandemic kind of just abruptly stopped it. And so I've talked to a few other cast members, and I think what I found really interesting is just I knew you were actually I was very likely going to come see you in April, like it was on tour in where I'm from, Indiana, and it was on its way, but it just like, I don't even think you knew when you started the performance at night that that was going to be the last one. And so I'm really just curious. Like, when did you get that news? Like, how did that whole thing, like, such an abrupt ending happen? So

[22:36] Speaker 2: we had had a break, like a five minute break, and we all open our phones and found out that Broadway closed. So we were literally sitting in the rehearsal being like, oh my gosh, Broadway, Broadway shut down. Like, it is, yeah. And we were asking our PSM, we're like, are we done? Like, are we closed? Like, is this rehearsal gonna be it? Like, is this the last time we're ever gonna be on stage? He's like, we're not, we're not closed. Like, don't worry. We're, we're still doing the show and like, every like, 20 minutes, we're like, are we still good? We're, we're still open, we're still planning on doing this tonight, because every other show had closed down. Every, I believe there may have been one other tour, but every, every show was done, we were, I think the only there may have, there may have been one other tour that was still going on, but I think we were the only show that performed that night, so we we didn't know it would be like, our last, last show, but we were, like, getting emails all day, and everything was constantly changing. We had, like, gotten an email saying, Oh, you're gonna go to South Carolina and you're gonna sit there for two weeks while this all cools down, and then we're gonna start up again. And then it was like, we're skipping Montreal because we can't be in Canada right now, and we just, like, had gotten like, rapid fire, like, 15 different emails saying, like, this is happening. This is happening. This is happening. This is happening. So nobody really knew what was going on at that point. We so we just got ready and went on stage and did our show. And I remember it was, like, in the middle of ball, there's a part where, like, after the whole like main part of ball, like Copeland and like everything, the whole like main part of ball happened, and we were going into another section, and there's like, everyone has little moments that they have on stage. And I was crawling to the back, and I, like, had my little moment with people. And I like, look and like, our entire crew, I'm gonna get emotional thinking about it, but like our whole crew and our stage managers, and like everyone and our company managers were all like, standing in the wing watching, and they had never like you. Every once in a while someone would like, come and watch, but it was like our whole crew were like, standing in the wings. And I remember seeing that and being like, Oh, this is, this is the end. Like, we're done, like, this is our last show. And we kind of like, all at that same time, like we all kind of had a moment where we looked around and noticed that, like the local crew, and like our crew and our stage managers and company managers, and like, everyone was standing in the wings watching, and we're like, Oh, like this, this could very well be. Our last show. And like, we were kind of, you know, before the show, joking about it, being like, Oh, well, one last time we got to do it, we got to have a good show, because this is going to be our last one. Like, trying to make light as the situation being like, we're going to be back in two weeks, obviously. Like, there is no way this is going to be our last show. But like, let's make it good, just in case. But like, and we were really joking about it, because we're like, that was our way of dealing because we're like, No, it's not going to be our last show. But kind of seeing that during the ball, we all were like, Oh, this is, this is the end. Like, this is, yeah. And I remember our our wardrobe supervisor, Mikey, who I absolutely adore. He used to watch it every night, so, like, it was not unusual that he was there. He always stood in the stage right, like back wing and always watched. And I used to like, like, make eyes of Him, like off stage, and like, joke around with him. And like, I had a part where I had to kick, and I used to try to, like, kick my hand with my foot, to, like, we just had, like, little things that I did, like off stage. And he was sitting there, like kneeling, and like crying, and like, everyone else was sitting back there watching, and I was just like, Oh man, this is, this is the end. So that was, is a tough one after the ball. I think we all just kind of like, went off stage and just kind of cried. Like I used to, like, crawl off stage and then go, like, put my legs on the wall, because my legs were so exhausted after doing that, and I did that, and then I sat up and I was like, that's the last time I'm ever going to do that. Yeah,

[26:27] Mike Abrams: it's got to be a lot to take in, especially with against which being so abrupt and not really knowing and the uncertainty, because I was, I was in Indiana, which where I'm from, and I'd went to a basketball game, and then there was same thing. There was a basketball like, March Madness tournaments were starting, and they played one game, and we're like, are they gonna keep playing? There was like, one game got to about half time and they realized they probably shouldn't keep doing it. Yeah, it was the same kind of thing where it was just like, this is we're not sure, but all of a sudden it just very abruptly stopped. And just knowing that that was the end, and then y'all are now on to different things, because it's like it didn't come back, like there wasn't that two week later and come back, it was the end. So hopefully there's another opportunity for you, though, if you want to ever be Victoria again, because it's still, you know, it's a show that's never going to to end. It sounds it seems like

[27:26] Mike Abrams: We'll be back after this short break. Let's change gears to a couple rapid fires, and then we're gonna talk about the million dollar question. Okay, so if you were not Victoria and you could play one other cat in the show doesn't matter. Like, if you could sing it, do it, dance it, male, female, anything just who would you want to do for one night? Mister police, mistoplies, different, immediate answer. Sorry, what? It's a different dance number.

[27:53] Speaker 2: Yeah, I would. I really, I, I mean, our misto and I, we used to, like, mess around. And we would, if we ever had, like, a rehearsal studio, we would do, like the turns together and like mess, because he was a lefty and I was a righty, so we used to do them like opposite. And there was, if I could say this, but I'm gonna say it anyway. I saw on Instagram that one night on Broadway, the misto had, like, hurt himself and couldn't do the turns, so Victoria jumped in and did the turns. Oh, and this was like a bootleg that someone posted on Instagram, and our misto sent it to me. I'm like, man, if you're ever hurt, I got you. Like, I can jump in. I know it. Like, every time at our sound check, whatever we did misto, like I would do, like the dance like we would all do it, because it's just so fun. So I would love to do misto. I would love to have that dance number, the super high end. I mean, it's completely opposite from my entire character, because everything I did was very slow and lyrical, and, like, everything I did was like on a, like a flute and some piano, and everything Mr. Did was on drums. And we used to, I used to say this all the time, because you could tell, like, what was original choreography versus what was Andy blankenbuller choreography, because everything that Jillian Lynn did was on, like the piano or a flute or, like, anything and everything Andy, like the newer stuff that Andy did, everything was on, like a drum beat, like a sharp, like, more not aggressive, but, like, more of a sharp movement. And then Jillian was more of, like a flowy so you could go into, like, a really pretty, like, arabesque or whatever, and then, like, snap it out to add, like, the Andy flair to it interesting. That was, yeah, so I feel like almost the entire misto number was completely brand new. Like, he revamped it completely. Obviously, there were the iconic turns and misto that will never change, but the entire misto number was really Andy's like, I feel like that was his like, favorite number to do, because it was very, like, everything was on a drum beat. Everything was sharp and precise and like, very, like hip, hoppy and just like very Andy, blank and Bueller style. And like, everything that Victoria does was, like, I think most of my choreography was original, Jillian Lynn, like lyrical, slower, like longer, extended movement. So it would be so fun to do like the complete opposite of that, and do like full Andy blankabular choreography, yeah, because I feel like that number was one of the only ones that was nothing. Jillian Lynn, it was just like all Andy,

[30:12] Mike Abrams: interesting. I so I'm not knowledgeable enough about any of this stuff to have noticed that, or to really even be able to tell you the difference between the two, seeing, having seen the original or the 1998 and then saw Broadway twice, yeah, but yeah, I would have never picked that up, but that's really interesting to hear. And I love the like you're ready for. You know, you're not rooting for injury, but it's like, hey, if there is an injury,

[30:36] Speaker 2: I'm ready if it happens. We had a plan. We had a plan, because he would normally go to this side. And I was like, you go to this side and you call me up and I'll take but yeah, I feel like the choreography, it was a very the entire show was a very cool mixture of, like, a Jillian step and Andy step, a Jillian step and Andy step. Like, it was still, like, had the original, like the iconic original choreography that was, like, needed to make it cats, but still, like, everything had a newer, modern flair that, like Andy did, and it was just like, it was really cool to realize, and I think that we actually had the drummer in rehearsals with us, and I think that was the reason, because all of the newer stuff was meant to be on, like a drum beat, rather than on the piano. So we had a rehearsal pianist and we also had a drummer, which I feel like is not super common for like shows. I feel like it's usually just like a rehearsal pianist, and that's what it is. But when we were learning the show, we had a drummer too, and that's how very interesting learned. It very interesting. I so it's a really cool mixture of,

[31:35] Mike Abrams: yeah, um, who would you say are your favorite and least favorite cat? Characters, not not actors. Characters, oh God, not the actors. That's why, that's why I have to always clarify that question. Okay,

[31:49] Speaker 2: so my favorite? Obviously, Victoria. I really loved, I love Gus Gus. Okay, Gus. Gus is my favorite. We'll get to him later, because he's obviously gonna be my choice. But

[32:03] Mike Abrams: Alan Grizabella, I'm like, anytime someone says that the guest is their favorite, I'm like, Okay, this is gonna lend well for one of my last for my last question, yep,

[32:10] Speaker 2: yep. I really love Macavity. I know he's like, the bad one, but man, was like, the Macavity fight with monkey strap was one of that was also, like, full Andy, because that was not, that was like, a newer thing that was added, like, it was a completely different fight than the original. That was one of the coolest parts of the show for me, because, like, the lighting, like, it was like, Don't it was like, bright red. Oh, my God, it was so cool. Like watching that rehearsal the first time, like, they're literally, like, climbing up set pieces and like throwing each other across the stage. Like, I just think the cavity is kind of a badass. So, like, of course, everyone's always loves the bad boys, but I'm like, and it was, you know, my partner, of course, too, because it was Plato turns into cavity. And that has no significance. It's just like, they make Plato not an obsolete character, but they make him like so that you don't notice it when he like, kind of, yeah, there's a handful, like, he has his feature, yeah? Like, he has his features. But it was also like, his little minions. They make them two ensemble members, so that they can just kind of like, slip out and then come back, yeah, um, without being like, two notes. Like, obviously, if you take the girl in the bright white Leah cart off stage and put her in something else you're probably gonna notice.

[33:23] Mike Abrams: Yeah, there's a couple you can but then there's also, like, I think best is also bus for Jones. And so there's a

[33:29] Speaker 2: couple bus for also. It's Peter characters. I know Peter, but I feel like it was a Peter something.

[33:36] Mike Abrams: Oh, I don't know if there's a full name. It's just marked as Peter in theater. I

[33:40] Speaker 2: could, I could be wrong. That's my Oh no. I'm thinking. I'm thinking Tugger because Tugger was also

[33:51] Mike Abrams: favorite cat, Peter. Busted Peter. I dislike Peter. I just think you got all these amazing names and you got Peter, and it really bugs me that they just chose Peter. I like Bill

[33:59] Speaker 2: Bailey. I wish that was like one of the characters, because we say

[34:03] Mike Abrams: it and they say, you say Peter too, which is why they renamed having a cat named Peter. That's, that's the thing. Although I do find I have a few friends that have, like, very traditional, like, human names for their but all for and it's usually I love. It's kind of entertaining. It's like, come here, Stanley, a friend that has a dog, had Golden Retriever named Mark. I love golden retriever and so, yeah, I grew up with golden retrievers, and I did too, having one named Mark. Just every time I they posted on social media, I laugh

[34:33] Speaker 2: mark. I feel like there's some human names that work for animals, and then some that. It's like, yeah, that's weird.

[34:43] Mike Abrams: That's Peter. That's Peter. For me,

[34:44] Speaker 2: I love that. Yeah, Peter. They could have been more creative, but again, they wanted it so that it's not a super noticeable cat, so that he can slip out and become someone. Yes, I get it because of Bell is in the opening baby grid, I would have. Does. She doesn't have a fancy I would not

[35:01] Mike Abrams: have known that Peter existed by name, if it wasn't for the fact that it's in all the rumor mill stuff. Like, it's, it pops up in, like, the cats Wikipedia when I was researching, yeah, and so for me, it was just like, they couldn't name them anything. They could have called it cat five, and I would have been fine, you know, like, Just Dancer number two program

[35:18] Speaker 2: too. I know it's like Peter slash. And I'm like, I feel like Peter was not a necessary thing. Exactly. He's in the opening number for like, 30 seconds. He sings one line, and he's in the opening number for like, you know, five

[35:31] Mike Abrams: minutes. Does two more, like, legitimate, bigger characters. It's like they don't need Peter's listed in there. And everyone's

[35:38] Speaker 2: like, who's Peter? And then it's like Bill Bailey's like, who's Bill Bailey? Exactly? That's

[35:42] Mike Abrams: why Peter's my least favorite. But I'm not letting off the hook. Who's your least favorite cat? I don't I don't know if I

[35:48] Speaker 2: have a least favorite. I'm trying to think I have my list of all the cats here. Hold on. Let me. Let me go through them. You know who else I love? Hold on. I have a lot of favorite cats. I also love the twins, corco Pat and tanzan wild. They are so cool. And I was also like, we had like, four different iterations of twins. I feel like we had a lot of turnover, because our original girl ended up actually booking the West Side Story movie. So then one of our swings took over, tanta mile, who was also my cover, and then she left. And then another girl took over, Tanzanite, and then our original core copad took over, Mr. Police. And then we had a new core compat come in. So we had, like, a lot of iterations of twins, and I feel like I was just, like, really good friends with all of them. Like, some of my favorite people were, like, the twins, like, I'm still Laura and Melody are, like, two of my best friends. Like, I adore them. They were both our later tanta miles. So, like, I literally just saw melody last night. So, like, it was, I feel like it was special, because I just had so many moments with both of them. And I just, like, I they do so many cool things. When you watch them, like they do, they they have so much depth. But like, again, they're, like, their costumes are kind of like, not super, like, bold, like, they're kind of just, they blend in. But if you really watch them, they do, like, the coolest things. And I also just, like, had so many fun moments on stage, like playing with them, because we were always doing like, like, if you watch every dance, I think in especially Tugger, I'm literally opposite of tanta mile in every single thing, like, we are doing the exact same choreography on opposite sides of the stage, almost I think for like, four different numbers were opposite completely, like, the entire time, twins

[37:25] Mike Abrams: that as a casual spectator, I just don't think most people pick up like it, and then you learn about them. And I've talked to melody and a couple of the other twins over time. It's

[37:36] Speaker 2: like, yeah, I want to watch. And I listen to Laura's the other day too, the twins,

[37:40] Mike Abrams: because, like, they like, turn before somebody comes on stage and they do, like, there's a lot of staging and, like, unique things been being, like, telepathic that, I think is so clever and cool, yeah, that almost gets, like, I think it was Laura said that. Like, if you, you know, if you don't know them, you you know, you might not notice it, but if you do and you watch it, you're really in for a treat, and you just get this, like, really special experience. So I, I'm with you on those. I I've they're more the ones that I still like the next time I watch the show, like, fully through it's like, what I want to try to pick up. It's like, I do want to see what are they doing? Because that's a part that I totally missed the first time I saw it.

[38:16] Speaker 2: Yeah, and I don't know. I'm not, I'm not entirely sure I could be wrong. I think a lot of the stuff they do was like newer, like Andy choreography, like, I think a lot of it was added because Andy really likes, like the smaller movements. And there are just things like, they even like the way that they move their head is very like, small but noticeable, because it's Andy, and that's like what he's known for. And I like some of that, I believe, was in the original but I think they just did so much more, like, they just have so much more depth in this production. And, yeah, if you watch them, they do so many I mean, they're like, I was watching like, a reference video, and I was like, there's stuff that I didn't even know that they did, and I'm on stage with them, and, like, I they're always the first ones, like, in the second act, they're the first ones to come out there during the ball, they're the first ones to wake up. They like, they start like they said, to always feel like your ears are moving, even though we couldn't hurt your that would have been really cool if we could have wigs where our ears could move. But they were always the first ones to like, notice things and like, notice when something was wrong. Like, even before, like, a couple of the Macavity stairs, you can kind of see them starting to like, notice that something's wrong before the music changes, before there's a crash, before anything. So they're really cool. I really liked their part. I there's not, I don't know. I'm trying to figure out if I have any that aren't my favorite. Okay,

[39:35] Mike Abrams: I'll, I'll give you. You've gone through enough of the positives that I think we'll, we'll, we'll go off. Let's, let's switch to favorite song in the show. Okay,

[39:44] Speaker 2: I have two so Tugger and skimble shanks. Skimble Shanks, I loved because I, I added so much to skimble shanks. And just like, I added a lot of like, cat like things, like he did something where he'd be like. A speck of dust, and I'd be like, I would like, spazz and like, I did so much like cat like stuff in it. And we weren't told to do that too. So I just like, yeah, and that was, I think that's why I liked that number so much, was because it wasn't really choreographed. They're like, just be cats. And like, in the entire beginning, I would like, I did a thing where I would follow skimble Shanks, like he was walking, and I would, like, follow him on my knees, and like, do exactly what he was doing, but like, smaller and like, on the floor, and like, kind of making fun of him. And like, no one ever told me not to do it. So I was like, This is great. Like, I used to just, we had so much fun with that number. And then, like, as it went on, and like, newcast came, like, everyone found something fun that they could do. And like, that was just, it was just such a fun number. Like it wasn't it was the highest number to sing. Like that, everyone sings the same line, and it is so high. So like, Thank God there's not a ton of easy dancing in it, because it's like, trying to belt those notes out while you're like, running around, doing leaps across the stage would not be easy. So thank God it was, like, it was just more of a fun, like, a feedery kind of numbers. So I always had fun with skimble Shanks, because it was, like, where I could just really your true cat. So my kitten moment even, because I was like, this is where Victoria's like, youthful side came out, because we just, you know, saw her have cat sex and angelical ball, and now she gets to, like, play around with a speck of imaginary dust and make fun of all the older fun. Youth

[41:22] Mike Abrams: moment versus the the what we talked about earlier, and then Tugger. Just, yeah, great song.

[41:29] Speaker 2: I love Tugger. That was another one that was, like, very, very different from the original like that was one of the other numbers that I feel like had the most Andy stuff in it. And it was just such a fun number. Like, there was, like, I did so many lifts. I mean, you probably don't even notice it half the time, because you're watching Tugger because, you know, he literally steals the spotlight as he's supposed to. But I did probably, like, like, seven or eight lifts in that thing. And I also, like, slide between people's legs, and we're like, jump splits. And, like, I was just such a fun number, like, super high energy, like, very sassy. Like, I feel like that was the one time that I got to be like, yeah. Like, actually, like, rocket it out. Because every other seemed like, Victoria has to be very like, graceful and elegant and poised and Tugger. Because we were all kind of like under, not like a Macavity under his influence, but we were all kind of like, oh my gosh, we love him. Like, please pick me, like it was. So that was like, the one time that I got to be, like, a little sassy and like, a little like, sexier and like, kind of have that. That's fine vibe. So I really liked that number. And there was like, there was also like, I feel like it was the number that stuff would go wrong in the most often. So it was always like, I think one of our guys, I don't know if it was an understudy that was on, I'm not sure, but like, one of his, like, boot things broke off, and so I had to do, like, a jump straddle, and I, like, grabbed it, did a head roll, and then I chucked it off stage. And it was just like, all the guys behind me were like, that was like, that was so smooth. Like, it was just like, there was always something that happened in that number that we had to, like, work out. So I feel like there was just always something that's, like, entertaining. And McGee always made different choices, like, and our understudies made different choices too. So, like, it's just, it's kind of the same with Gus, like he did it every night. So

[43:19] Mike Abrams: yeah, it seems like it's always fresh and exciting. Like, that number is really supposed to be that way. Yeah, yeah. You never

[43:25] Speaker 2: knew what he was gonna do. He was kind of Yeah. Like, obviously kept the things that he needed to consistent. But like, when he went out into the audience, like there was exactly it was, you never knew. You never knew. Because one time he, like, dumped an entire bag of popcorn on himself, like it was just always, there was always something entertaining. So it's just it kept it fresh. I love it. So that was I loved, I loved Dugger. It was always

[43:47] Mike Abrams: so now our question, and I'm excited, because you've already teased that you're gonna get a go away from this. But yeah, I mean, so I it sounds like we're gonna go team Gus here, but I'd love to hear a little bit about your rationale of why team Gus over Grizabella, which I

[44:03] Speaker 2: feel a little bad about, because I feel like I'm the one that should be like, yeah, Grizabella, because I touch her, but like, she's not that old. She has plenty of time to go to the heavy side layer she, like my thought is that she just got accepted back into the tribe, and she doesn't even get to enjoy that, because now we're setting her up to die. Like that's,

[44:19] Mike Abrams: I can give her a year. Completely agree. That's been my most recent as I've talked to more people about this. I'm like, if you want to accept her back, let her spend time with the family. Let her be reunited with her daughter. Go back and spend the year and have some respected daughter. Yeah, potentially, depending on, depending on when you see it, yeah. Okay, so and then, and then you're picking Gus. What is your criteria for Old Deuteronomy selections? Like, how, like, obviously, I think Gus is definitely the most deserving. But what is like goes into that decision, is it most deserving? Is it longest life? Like, what do you think Old Deuteronomy is choosing off of? Well, I think I

[44:56] Speaker 2: feel like Old Deuteronomy. I don't know, like, I don't know what his criteria is. I. Actually, I guess I've never thought about that, like, we're doing all denominations. And like, you know, I mean, I feel like it's, truthfully, I feel like it should be the oldest cat. Like, I feel like

[45:11] Mike Abrams: Deuteronomy, right? Isn't that him?

[45:15] Speaker 2: I feel like Gus is older than Old Deuteronomy. I don't know, though, that's my other thing. Like, does Old Deuteronomy ever get to go to the heavy side? Liar.

[45:21] Mike Abrams: I've asked that question a lot of times. I don't, I don't know the answer to that. I really don't. The reason I wonder is because it seems very clear that monkeys trap is next in line, and that, like, he wants to be the next leader of the trip really hard and try, yeah. Like you see it, yeah. It's like, Well, if he's trying really hard. That means there has to be an end date for old dude, for old dude. Like, he's either retiring or he's killing himself on time. Or, like, how does that work?

[45:48] Speaker 2: Like, and yeah, because he's the one that picks so is one year. And just, like, Yeah, it's me this year. All right, yeah. Like, I've never, I thought about that and, like, what I just I don't know. I'm not I don't know what the answer to that is. I don't know if he ever Excuse me. I don't know if he ever, like, gets to go. I don't know if maybe he's magical, like, they all are, like, all the cats are, yeah, everyone has something like, I don't know if he's just, like, eternal. I don't know if one day he's just gonna disappear, and we assume that he goes up to the heavy side layer. Also, like, why does it only happen once a year? Well, cats are only allowed to die once a year. Does

[46:20] Mike Abrams: it explicitly say once a year? Yeah, okay. It's like,

[46:24] Speaker 2: the so I tell everyone, like, if you need to know the plot of cats, there's one moment where you get the plot, and if you miss it, you're probably not gonna get it. Like, it's right after my solo. It's called invitation to the Jellicle Ball. And it's like, I can't even remember the exact words, because it's been so long since I did the show, but it's like, Jellicle cats meet once a year at the Jellicle Ball, where they all rejoice, and the Jellicle leader will soon appear, where he makes what's known as the Jellicle choice. Like, that's, that's your whole pot. Basically, there's four lines, I think that was, like the first two, and then there's like, two more lines, and that's the whole plot, yeah. And if you're not paying attention, and you miss that, and a lot of people weren't paying attention, because people will come in late, and that was when they were allowed to come in, because they didn't let them come in during my solo. Thank God, because that would be super distracting, just like bright lights coming through. But, um, no, they would wait until after my solo, and then the invitation was when they let the late people come in. So I feel like a lot of people miss that plot all the time, because there were always people coming in the audience.

[47:20] Mike Abrams: So yeah. So this, it is annual, and is once a year, a year, okay? I and

[47:26] Speaker 2: the thing, I guess if it's more than once a year, it makes it less special. But, I mean, it's then, like it's

[47:31] Mike Abrams: an orgy. So like, they only do it, they only have their orgy once

[47:34] Speaker 2: a year. Of course, yeah, twice a year is

[47:37] Mike Abrams: too much. Yeah, we can't have that. Was it? Nine minutes, 10 minutes. What's the dance number? 12 minutes. There you go.

[47:43] Speaker 2: 12 minutes. The 12 minute cardio work. Oh, it

[47:49] Speaker 2: workout. Like, especially for me, I was, I didn't realize until I was swung out one time. I I was like, standing backstage watching, and I was like, people go off stage during the ball. Like, I didn't know. I thought everyone was on stage the whole time and, like, all these people to come off and, like, drink water and, like, take a couple seconds of like, Y'all get to go off stage. Like, I didn't get to go off stage at all. I was dancing the entire 13 minutes. I had one, one rest moment that Andy actually cut me out of. He came into the rehearsal, and I was so upset because he was like, Yeah, you're not gonna do this part. You're gonna be on the ladder. I was like, Okay. And I was so upset that he cut me out of it. Like, thank God he did, because that was the only I got, like, 15 seconds to breathe and rest, and that was it. That was, like, the only time. And like myself and like Laura, and we had, like, talked about it. We're like, Could you imagine if we had to do that part too? Like, I like, there would have been no time to breathe, yeah. So it was, yeah, it's a long has a cardio heavy, 12 minute long non stop number, yeah.

[48:46] Mike Abrams: Okay, so it is annual once a year. Yep, you're kind of the argument is either oldest or just really not even most deserving, just, well,

[48:56] Speaker 2: I think they should be deserving, like, if they're a jerk, I don't some cavities not going. The cavity is not going. I mean, maybe he could turn himself around, but I think, I mean, all the girls would probably vote for him. Yeah,

[49:07] Mike Abrams: I That's why I asked the criteria question, because the criteria question really dictates who you pick.

[49:13] Speaker 2: Yeah, I feel I've never, I've never thought about that. I've just always thought that, like, what if Gus doesn't make it till the next year? Like, what if Gus dies before the Jellicle choice? Like, does he still get to go to the heavy side lair, or does he just and not get and get reborn? Like, is he just not reborn? What happens if someone dies during the year? You know, that's

[49:33] Mike Abrams: the other anti Gus argument. Is that he might not have another life like this. He might be on his last one that is from the mouth of a Gus who performed us on Broadway is the one who said that that was, I believe, personally believe that that was that person's way to accept not being selected each night. But that was the rationale is that if he gets picked, he might not ever have a chance. Send him back to the tribe. But I don't so sad. I know, I don't, I don't know if I buy that. I think that's just a way to make, to make him feel better about having picked every night.

[50:07] Speaker 2: Yeah, like, because cats are supposed to have nine lives. But I don't know in this show if they have nine lives or if they're just reborn. Like, it doesn't say they're reborn nine times and then they're done. Yeah,

[50:17] Mike Abrams: for sure. I Okay. So I I

[50:21] Speaker 2: just, I'm trying to, like, figure out what my criteria is, and I feel like it has to be deserving, and also, like, old enough that they might not make it to the next one. Like, I feel like Jenny and skimble, like they'll get their day, but it's not yet like they're pretty, very younger. They're like the parents, but like, Gus is like the grandfather, yeah.

[50:39] Mike Abrams: So you're looking at generations. And so your generation is Gus, Grizabella, Old Deuteronomy. And, no, I don't think Grizabella is in that okay, so she falls in. I think I, I mean, if

[50:51] Speaker 2: I'm her daughter, and I'm one of the youngest ones, and she was with monk, then she's probably the same age as the other. You've

[50:58] Mike Abrams: got Gus in his own layer here, and then you've got Grizabella skimble, Jenny, Monk, cavity, probably right, like, that's probably the next bunch, although monk and Tugger are supposed to be the same age, so maybe monks younger.

[51:10] Speaker 2: Yeah, I guess Tugger too, but he's definitely not deserving. Yeah. Well, it depends on your criteria. I mean, he, he, he worked on himself. But also, I forgot, I think syllable, there was also, like, a theory that she could be else daughter, and

[51:24] Mike Abrams: that's why she is. That is a theory as well, for sure, and it, I

[51:28] Speaker 2: mean, it's possible that both of us could be her daughter. I have tried, well, which would make sense, because we were supposed to be one, yeah, I've

[51:34] Mike Abrams: tried to figure out the family tree. And there's just too many dotted lines made a family tree. There's too many like we did. Okay? Well, if you ever find it, I would love to see I've, I'll, I'll have to say I've got a few people have sent me examples. Some fans have sent me some examples, and I have attempted, but there's too many like, it could be a or b like, there's just too many choices. And depending on how you do that, it doesn't actually naturally line up to a tree. There's also, like, a lot of little side branches of maybe yes or no, or could be Mom, could be dad. So I think you ever talk about the collar thing? Collar thing is, is an interesting theory, because there's what, five cats with collars?

[52:17] Mike Abrams: six that had them. There's only a couple that they have owners. And

[52:21] Speaker 2: it's like, tumble Brutus Plato doesn't have one, and maybe Alonzo doesn't have one. I thought it was, I know, I know Plato and tumble Brutus do not have collars. And Plato there was a whole thing, because it's like, well, maybe monks trying to protect Victoria because he doesn't want her with a stray.

[52:37] Mike Abrams: The other one, that's really interesting. So there are a lot of these, like mini rumors that go around too. So the collars is one. There's a lot of fan fiction for Tugger and most awfully together, Oh yeah, absolutely. There's one other. I love those. Those are my favorite. There's some, like, novels, like books, oh yeah.

[52:55] Speaker 2: Oh, we've read some of them. Yeah. The one I used to do that, that was our entertainment,

[52:59] Mike Abrams: the one that I am still trying to figure out is on the fan Wikipedia page, there is every cat's astrology sign. And I really want to know who put that out there. And I don't know exactly. I don't know enough about astrology to like, know whether any of these are right or wrong. Now

[53:21] Mike Abrams: pull it up pretty quickly, because I've got it open here. Let's see we are gonna find

[53:27] Speaker 2: this. She's a Virgo. I'll believe it, because that's what I am. Oh, she's a cancer. Can't

[53:31] Mike Abrams: Yeah. Okay, so are you? Are you knowledge about this? Are you ready to have this conversation? No,

[53:35] Speaker 2: not at all. No, I know nothing, absolutely nothing about any of it.

[53:41] Mike Abrams: I don't either, and that's why, when I saw that as, like, this is part of the show, like, this part of the theories, I was like, What is, what is going on here? And who posted all these? Yeah, like, who came up? I mean, who

[53:54] Speaker 2: was like, Yeah, I don't know. There are some. There are some Die Hard cats fans out there. There's a lot of Die Hard cats fans.

[54:01] Mike Abrams: I have talked to a handful of them, and it is very fun, because they know all the stuff that I don't as someone who I wouldn't. I mean, I definitely have enjoyed the show and enjoyed seeing it. I everyone assumes, just because of this, that I'm a super fan. And the reality is, I know the plot of this really well, and I don't know much else. And so there are a lot of things where I'm like, I didn't even know about the twins when I started recording this, these shows, like, I couldn't told you a single thing about them, and then now I know a little bit about them, but I have enjoyed learning about it, and it's fascinating. And it is, like, this weird kind of almost like mini it's like, its own Jellicle cult in itself, like, its own, like, and that's, that's fun, because it's given a lot of people, a lot of, like, really unique things, because there's almost a cat for everybody, like, there's a character that most people can relate to, which is cool,

[54:54] Speaker 2: yeah. And I, like, I always loved when people dressed up. I.

[54:58] Mike Abrams: Alan. I It's great that people do it. I there's been a lot I've seen. We did a live recording, pre pandemic for the show, and we had somebody come in full, in full mesopolies, which was awesome. I love that I have somebody, there's an Etsy store that I that mail me a tail, an actual tail for the show. So I've got my own tail ready to go if I ever do cats for Halloween one year. But yeah, it's a again, wonderful, and I love that I get to have another person argue against Grizzle with me. So thank you for bringing Gus team. Gus here. Yeah, Gus, go ahead. Well, I was just gonna say, how can we my last question is, just, how can we keep it up with you on social media and stay in touch. I

[55:41] Speaker 2: wasn't done talking. I had more. I had more go. I was just gonna say, like, I that was one of my favorite parts of the show every night. Was listening to Gus, and I actually got one of my notes that I got, like, our first we were doing, like, previews, or maybe just tech or something from Kim Craven was, she's, like, I love like you're acting in Gus, like you're looking like you look super invested, like you're like, acting really well. I'm like, Oh, that's not acting like I am super invested. Like I love listening to it, like she was just like, oh yeah, the acting is great. I'm like, Nope, no acting here. Like I and he, like, always made different choices every night. And like, we had like, little moments in Gus, like he used to say, like, he says something about Victoria, and like, I would stand up and be like, sit down. This is my moment. Like, we, we just, we had all of our little things. And I just like, I mean, how can it not make you cry? You know, like he's talking about, like his glory days, and like he was in on the theater, and just, it's just so sad, but like, it's like, happy, because he still kind of gets to relive that with, like, the peaks and the follicles a little bit, but it's just, I like the poor guy, he's tried so many years to be the Jellicle choice, and someone beats him out every year. And this year it's someone who isn't even old enough to she finally gets accepted. And then it's like, All right, bye, bye. I love it. You're gonna, we're gonna push you off the spaceship here, and

[57:00] Mike Abrams: eventually I'm gonna record enough of these that Gus is gonna just, they're gonna, just gonna change the show for me one time, just one night, honestly, one night. It doesn't even can be a regional theater or some like, little small town. That's what I want.

[57:12] Speaker 2: Like, I feel like the show could end with us accepting Grizabella. I feel like we don't need to see her go up and die. What, for

[57:20] Mike Abrams: sure. Or my other idea for the tour is let a different person die each night. If you're gonna stay, like, if you're there for four nights, five nights, have a different ending each night. Doesn't mean that they don't come back. If you still do the same show, just not tell anyone to go up the heavy side layer each night.

[57:36] Speaker 2: I love that. It's like, we accept Grizabella, and it's all right,

[57:41] Speaker 3: you're going up. And then Gus went on Tuesday. So on Wednesday, somebody else goes up.

[57:45] Speaker 2: And one day, dude just goes up there by himself, exactly, yeah. And nobody tells anybody who it's going to be. Every night, the cast doesn't know. It's just so the only thing

[57:53] Mike Abrams: is, my, my real first idea was you just audience vote like, let's make it like, true,

[57:58] Speaker 2: like an interactive talent, interactive cats, yeah, you know, American

[58:02] Mike Abrams: Idol style, like you got your buttons while you're saying it's like, who deserves to go tonight, and then they do, and then that's the cat that gets on to go up. Yeah, I have all these great ideas. Nobody listens to me. I feel like that would be great. Nobody has taken me up on them.

[58:15] Speaker 2: Honestly, I do it. I think that's a great idea. Interactive cats, the musical that's one day solid. One day it's coming. I mean, it is interactive. We literally went into the audience,

[58:24] Mike Abrams: yeah, oh yeah. You start the shows scaring children with green eyes. So I think that we can end the show with a buzzer.

[58:32] Speaker 2: One time someone scared, someone scared you when my it was my neighbor, my in Philadelphia, I had, I had, like 300 people come see me total in Philadelphia, like I had, I have, like, the world's best support system, like I had my entire group of middle school teachers came to see me one night. Like, like, 30 of my teachers from middle school came. They're just wonderful. And I had one night where it was, like the neighbors night. So, like, we live on, like, a cul de sac in New Jersey, and like all, everyone from the cul de sac came to see me, and I was crawling out, and I flashed my eyes, and I didn't know that's where my neighbors were sitting. He's like, hi, Caitlin scared the crap out of me, like, fully said that, and I, like, could not stop laughing. And it like he did it right before I flashed my eyes, and it scared me. And I will never forget that I loved that it was so funny. I literally, like, came off state. I came off, like, cracking up, and everyone's like, what's wrong? I'm like, I just got scared. That's amazing. It was so that is awesome. Yeah, I never forget that that was a great that was a great show. I just, I also just loved Philly. I mean, I had people in every we were there for two weeks, and I had somebody in every single performance. And, like my parents, also bought front row right there sitting front row center. I did all of naming of cats to them, and I finished. I did the Jellicle Ball, and I finished. And I have to, like, I do that big lift at the end, and then I run in. Side and finished, like, literally on center, I was looking right at my dad, and my dad was crying, because he cries every time he watches me dance. And then I started crying, like, because, like, my whole family's sitting there, like, crying. I'm like, Well, of course, now I'm gonna so that was fun. That's awesome. But

[60:17] Mike Abrams: yeah, well, this has been amazing. I do, yeah, how can we stay in touch on social media? And how can everyone keep up with you everything you're doing? Okay, so

[60:25] Speaker 2: my Instagram and my tick tock are the same. They're both Caitlyn bond five, I post a lot of cats content on my tick tock. I'm not gonna lie. I did a lot more, like in the beginning of the pandemic, but there's still a lot of cats content on there. So I I talk about, like, behind the scenes stuff and like things that happened, and like the crazy experiences and all the things amazing. Definitely follow me on there for more. Absolutely,

[60:49] Mike Abrams: yeah, follow and, you know, keep, keep posting more so people can continue to hear the, you know, all the fun stuff of the show. This has been amazing. So thank you so much for for coming on.

[61:00] Speaker 2: Thank you for having me. I'm always gonna root for Gus. Gus is my guy, man. Team. Gus. Love it forever. Grizabella next year. Give her a year to be back in the tribe. Give her a year to, like, be back with her family, and then she can die. But like, give her a year at least not like, five

[61:16] Mike Abrams: seconds exactly. Well, thank you, and thanks everyone else listening to this episode of the wrong cat died the podcast breakdown, the cat said, the caste to follow along. You can subscribe on Apple podcast, Spotify, Stitcher, or anywhere else you listen to the podcast. Follow us on Twitter and Instagram at the wrong cat died. Or check out our website, the roncat die.com.