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[0:00] Mike Abrams: Welcome to The Wrong Cat Died, the podcast breakdown of The Cat Sashaphy. I'm your host Mike Abrams, and I wanted to do a quick introduction here because we're going to start pulling out a few of my favorite and some of the most fun episodes and best episodes from Our Vault to release here, especially during holiday seasons and other times when we have a few opportunities to share some older episodes. So the first one we're going to share here is with Claire Camp. She was a dance captain and a swing in the 2016 revival of Cats on Broadway. If I could describe anyone as jellicle and the most jellicle person I think I have ever met, it might be Claire. So I wanted to make sure that everyone had a chance to re-listen to this wonderful episode with Claire and enjoy the holiday season. So here's the episode with Claire.

[0:46] Mike Abrams: There's a cat over here. There's a cat over there. And the wrong one died. And the wrong one died. Welcome to The Wrong Cat Died, the podcast breakdown of The Cat Sashaphy. I'm your host Mike Abrams, and today we have another amazing guest. She was the dance captain for the 2016 Broadway revival of Cats, and she was a swing covering Cassandra, Bombaylerina, Tantamile, Victoria, and Elektra. So welcome Claire Camp and thank you for joining me.

[1:21] Claire Camp: Thank you for having me, Mike Abrams.

[1:24] Mike Abrams: I cannot wait to talk about the dance captain piece because that to me seems, it's just a foreign concept. So I have a lot of questions there. But before we do that, I love to start with your Cats history. So I'd love to hear before the 2016 revival, had you seen it? How familiar with it? Did you do a junior high, high school production? Like what was your backstory with Cats?

[1:51] Claire Camp: I didn't grow up with Cats. I was like a newbie to Cats later on. There was a girl in my ballet class. Every Halloween we could wear a Halloween ballet outfit. So like a leotard and tights, but a costume. And she somehow had a connection to a family member that worked in costumes for Cats and had the Victoria unitard. And so she came to ballet class. This is when I was probably like 12 or 13 in the Victoria white cat unitard. And I remember looking at it and that was my introduction to Cats being like, that's really cool. You look awesome in that. I want something like that. And then later when I officially moved to the city in 2011, I think it was, Cats was my first job. So I did two productions of Cats before Broadway to like regional production.

[2:53] Mike Abrams: Tell me where were those productions? That's not on your Cats Wikipedia page. I think we're going to have to update that. Tell me about the regional productions. Where were they? Who were you?

[3:04] Claire Camp: That's when I truly first fell in love with Cats. I should start by saying that I'm obsessed with Cats. Like I'm that person. And like my friends who know me would laugh because they know that I'm always bringing up Cats. Like even before Broadway was a thing, I would tell people what cat they were. So, yeah. And I fell in love the first job, which was at a theater called Coho's Music Hall.

[3:36] Mike Abrams: Where is Coho's Music Hall?

[3:39] Claire Camp: It's like near Albany, I think. Yeah, it was near Albany. And it was like, I went on a website called Answers for Dancers. And I was just trying to work. Like I was just trying to make some money being a dancer. And I went to school at Purchase for modern and ballet. So I really had like little experience with musical theater, but I had a love for it. And I didn't know about Cats, but I knew that it involved unitards and it involved dancers. And so I was like, I'd be right for that. So that's, I yeah, I showed up to an audition. And I wore a unitard and I danced for Coho's Music Hall's production of Cats. And Jacob Brent actually was the director choreographer, who I don't know if you know who Jacob Brent is, but he was the Mistoffelees in the 90s movie.

[4:40] Mike Abrams: Okay.

[4:41] Claire Camp: Yeah, celebrity. And I didn't know that at the time, but he's like, awesome. He's magical Mr. Mistoffelees. So, um, okay, yeah, I got to stay on track. So then I auditioned. And it was like, it was, yeah, I could do it. And I remember them looking at me and I had to sing after and I'm pretty sure I didn't have sheet music or clothes like I kept my unitard on when I sang. And I realized later that was like a big no-no, like usually people change. But I just put on my red converse. I had high top red converse and he was wearing red converse as well. And he was like, I like your shoes. And I was like, thanks. And then I got an email and they asked me to play Cassandra, which is the brown, long, um, cat. You know who Cassandra is, right? After 15 episodes?

[5:43] Mike Abrams: I've picked up a lot of the characters now and have a pretty good idea about most of them. But yes, you play Cassandra. Okay. So you're in the Cahoots Regional Theater near Albany.

[5:54] Claire Camp: Cahoots, Cahoots. I don't even know how to say it.

[5:55] Mike Abrams: It's all new love.

[5:56] Claire Camp: It was like a tiny theater and I'm pretty sure I got paid like $300 a week, but it was like, it was amazing. Like it was, it's when I truly fell in love. Yeah. With cats and with musical theater.

[6:14] Mike Abrams: I love it. So you, okay. So you're at regional theater. How long did that run? How long did you do that production?

[6:19] Claire Camp: Oh God. I don't, not very long. It was like, you know, they had a season of shows and um, they brought us all in for cats. And I think it was like four weeks maybe. I'm guessing. Um, but a lot of the tour people were in that production. So I met a lot of the tour cats people who were on the national tour. Um, and they were a little like, we know cats like, who are you? And I knew nothing about cats, but quickly I like caught on and.

[6:54] Mike Abrams: And then you moved to, when was the second production?

[6:57] Claire Camp: So the second production was not that long after, and it was also directed and choreographed by Jacob Brent and it was like original, he set the original choreography. So like Jillian Lynn's choreography on us, which was awesome. And this was at Gateway Playhouse in Bellport. Um, New York, I think it's New York. Um, it's like this cool small theater. It feels like summer camp really. It's like cats camp. And, um, so Jacob did that as well. And I was Cassandra again. So I like really am feeling close to Cassandra. And, um, I was thrilled to do it. I had just got my equity card prior to that production, but they didn't hire, they didn't want to hire a equity member. I don't know if you know what that means.

[7:56] Mike Abrams: I have, I've learned a little, I've picked up some things along the way of this.

[7:56] Claire Camp: Technically I like illegally was Cassandra. Cause I was non equity. Cause I was like, I don't care if you pay me like nothing. I just want to do cats. Like I just want to do cats again, at Gateway. And it was awesome. And it ended up being like a really special time in my life where I feel like I, um, I elevated my skillset. And I remember the New York Times reviewed us because, um, Ken Page was our old Deuteronomy and he was also in the movie. So there was, it was nice. And I got a little write-up and I remember being like, Oh my gosh, like they recognized my Cassandra. Cause she's kind of like a side cat. She's not like a main, um, what did they tell you? That's what did Jacob tell you about? Like the backstory of Cassandra?

[8:51] Claire Camp: Cause that's one that actually had a question for you. Cause there's not a ton about her, her story. Cause it is a side cat. It's not one of the ones that's like as, as clearly defined. So I'm curious what you were given to work from.

[9:05] Claire Camp: Well, she can be defined if you like, if you really go for it. I feel like people notice her when they see the show, they're like, who is that brown cat? Um, and Emily Pinenberg played her on Broadway and was just like, absolutely stunning. And like, you just couldn't keep your eyes off of her. So I feel like Cassandra has more power. Yes. She doesn't have like a song and we don't scream her name over and over again, but like, she's, she has a lot of, um, yeah, she has a lot of weight to her. And, um, she, I would describe her, well, you know, about the three words. So like every time, so every time I did a production, I would get three words and I'm pretty sure they were different every time, which is interesting.

Um, but I remember some of the words being psychic, regal, clairvoyant. Um, I was told by Jacob who was directed by Jillian, like the original team that she was, um, almost timeless. Like she was ageless. She wasn't a house cat. So she wasn't like a cat. She was just kind of like there and, um, very wise and, um, kind of, uh, not above, but like, can't be bothered with the kids stuff, you know, like can't be bothered with bomb and Demeter. Like, I think she's, she's a little more, um, refined and, uh, doesn't need all that attention. She just like, she's glamorous. And, um, So she's kind of the cat. That's a big part of the Joko tribe, but not really the one trying to steal the show. Not really the one trying to get, she's just there. She's kind of keeping the everything together a little bit without anybody knowing it.

[11:10] Claire Camp: She doesn't need her own number. She's just like, is there, but misto does like use her as like a, um, kind of Vanna white, uh, moment for his magic trick. Um, and, and that's like fun for her. I would say like, she's like, okay, I'll play along. But I would say she's kind of above, like, she's very wise and she also sees the future. So she can say, okay, I'll play along. She can say, I sound crazy. And I'm aware of that. But like, this is what happens when I talk about cats. Um, she sees the future and she's very connected to Tantamile and Korokopat.

[11:53] Claire Camp: Who are, who are like psychic.

[11:56] Claire Camp: Yeah. So like, I would say the three of them have this kind of like trio energy where they, um, sense what's coming next and have visions.

[12:07] Claire Camp: Tantamile and Korokopat. Um, those two, Korokopat, I never can say their names. Honestly, I was reading Korokopat. I can't even say it. We're just going to forget it. The twins, the twins. Yeah. They, the more I've heard about them, the more I like, I kind of want to watch just to see like what they do the whole time. Like that's where there are super fans who go and see, like watch one cat the whole time or go a lot. And I don't remember anything about them. And then I've heard more, I've heard about them. I'm just like, Oh, this seems like the, almost like the twins from the movie, like the horror movie, the ring. That's kind of like the vibe I get from them.

[12:43] Mike Abrams: Isn't that the ring? You mean the shining?

[12:48] Claire Camp: The shining. That's what I'm thinking. Yeah. That's one of my favorite movies.

[12:52] Mike Abrams: That's the two. That's the two. That's the vibe I get from those cats now.

[12:55] Claire Camp: Yeah. They're a little creepy. They're a little creepy.

[12:58] Claire Camp: So I didn't realize that Cassandra's part of that. She's also kind of with them in the psychic world. It's up. It's no, everything I'm saying like is my interpretation. And I also think like Jacob fed me that Jacob Brent, my director for the first two regional productions, who's amazing. He kind of fed me that information. I remember just being like, you know, these three cats and you can tell that they all have similar wigs. Like they're like the only cats that are slicked back hair.

[13:32] Claire Camp: Not like, just like straight out. And, um, yeah, they have this kind of maturity. And Cassandra's older than Tantamile and Kore Qapad, but like, there's this, like, spirituality to that. Are they author related? They could be. I mean, it's like what, it's like, whatever serves your story. If you're playing the part, I never thought that Cassandra was related to anyone. I think she's just like a thousand years old and she never ages. And she's fabulous. I like, okay. I like that. So not up for, doesn't want to be the Jellicle choice. No, she doesn't need to be. She's like, she's just like there to support and to observe and like guide and just be fabulous. Like she's truly a diva cat, but not in the way that Bomb Ballerina is or Grizabella or Grizabella.

Yeah. Very different than that. Okay. Let's, let's move from regional. You're not in the city. What was, um, what was the experience, uh, on, on Broadway, you know, being, especially being the dance captain, what was that being able to bring some of that experience to, you know, the revival? Um, well, I was already in love with cats from doing those productions. So it was kind of wild hearing that cats was coming to Broadway because, you know, my stomach just dropped and I was like, you know, it's like when you have to be a part of something, you know, like you hear about a job and you're like, I need to be in this. So it was kind of intense auditioning for it, like the pre talk. Um, and I was in Joseph and the Amazing Technicolor Dreamcoat, which is another Andrew Lloyd Webber musical.

And I was on tour with that. And Andy Blankenbuehler was the choreographer of that. So I remember at like Joseph cast party doing my thing where I'm telling people what cats they are. And he's looking at me like, do you know something? And I'm like, what are you talking about? You're a Skimbleshanks. Like, and I had no clue that he was like talking, you know, about cats coming to Broadway. Um, so at one point on the tour, he came up to me and he was like, I have something to tell you. Like cats is coming to Broadway. And I was just like, Oh my God. And I didn't know if that meant I was like going to be in it or how I was going to be a part of it, but I just knew it was coming. And it was like the most exciting thing.

And he ended up asking me to assist him with, um, auditions, uh, like running the auditions or we met and I taught, I like actually taught him some of Copeland, which is like the original choreography, because I told him, I know the original choreography thanks to Jacob Brent. And, um, it was wild. And, and Jillian and Chrissy Cartwright were not even in the picture. So not any of the, the original people were not in the picture yet, but he, um, created a little bit of his stuff plus the original for this audition. And I assisted him in auditioning, but I didn't know if I was going to be in it yet. So it was this weird place of like, I'm helping him with these auditions. I want to be in it. I don't know if I'm going to be in it.

I'm seeing these people audition, but like, regardless, it was a special time because I loved cats and, you know, if the ball was rolling, but obviously because I had played Cassandra twice before, I had the assumption that I would play Cassandra in the Broadway revival. Um, so I got the offer for a swing, not the dance captain yet, but a swing, um, which would be, yeah, it was my Broadway debut. It was my swing debut. Um, and you were in five parts. Yeah. So at first I think he said something. Yeah. I don't know. But basically I think at first he was like, you'll have to cover three parts. And I was like, Oh, that's not bad. I think initially I was, I was kind of pissed. I was like, wait, what?

Like, I obviously thankful to get, um, a Broadway show, but I had this like kind of perfect scenario expectations set up where I would play Cassandra on Broadway. Because that's the only part I can play. Like that's the, that's the part. And so when they asked me to be a swing, I was like, wait, I can't do that. Also like to be a swing, you have to be so sharp. You know, you have to be so smart. I was like, I don't, I can't do that. Like that's not me. Um, but I ended up doing it and then they later asked me to be the dance captain, um, co-dance captain. So it ended up being a very different journey, but like, I'm so happy that that's how it ended up. I'm, I'm like thankful that that's how it happened. Cause I ended up getting a lot more from it. If I had just been Cassandra, like, I think that would have been nice, but it wouldn't have, um, changed me as much.

[19:34] Mike Abrams: Yeah. I want to ask about the dance captain. Cause I have heard the term and I hear, I kind of have a loose understanding of what it means, but talk to, like, I guess, tell me a little bit about like, what does dance captain really actually mean? And then what does it mean in a show that's so dance heavy? You know, like, is it like, it's a very dance heavy show. That's, you know, the plot, the plot's loose. So it's more about the dance and the singing. Um, so tell me a little bit about that experience.

[20:06] Claire Camp: Well, I didn't know what a dance captain really did. And I was asked to be it. So that was interesting. Um, I kind of see it like a manager, you know, how like you have managers in your world and like you were saying, you have like a meeting tomorrow or like someone like hosts, uh, like a meeting and is like in charge. I feel like the dance captain is kind of like that in the sense that, um, they're, they're not like the boss, but they are the managers under the choreographer, under the associate, under the director, they maintain and they make sure that the show, um, keeps running. So like, they're also in charge of teaching. Um, so if someone were to get injured or sick, um, they need to teach the new person.

So like a lot of the times we would have a new cast member and it would be like, hi, welcome to cats. Here are your three words. And like you would start from the beginning. And thankfully I had a team of amazing people working with me and I was working with them. It wasn't just me. Like some shows it's like just one person and it's incredibly overwhelming, but we had a team of two dance captains and a associate choreographer and we all work together to maintain the show and keep it going.

[21:39] Mike Abrams: So did you have to basically learn all dance tracks? Like, could you, to train people, did you have to be able to do all the numbers?

[21:47] Claire Camp: Technically that would have been my job, but in theory, in theory, yes, the dance captain should know the answer to every question, every track should always just be right and know. But in this production it felt like we were always playing catch up. Like it was like the first preview and we still didn't know what was happening because there's so many changes that happen along the way, especially in a preview before opening. So we really helped each other. So like three of us would know certain tracks really well. I mean, one person would know like five tracks really well and I would know six tracks really well. And Corey, my co-dance captain would know like all the men tracks really well. And we would share with each other information and eventually you learn, you learn, you learn, and like you're, you get more information.

But to start, we were really like, okay, these are your tracks, these are your tracks, these are your tracks. And we would help each other communicate to the cast basically what you needed to get communicated. If that makes sense.

[23:03] Mike Abrams: It does. It's just like, it's such a, it's the same thing as a swing where you're learning five different, where you need to be the whole, like everything, just the idea of knowing all the characters or even half the characters or that many for every step of a, you know, multiple two and a half hour plus show.

[23:22] Claire Camp: Yeah. Very complex with like most the characters are on the stage a lot of the time doing a lot of different things. You're in the crowd part of the time. Like there's just, it's just a lot. And I can't imagine. The best way to know cats we learned was to go from beginning to end for each cat. And sometimes it lines up with other cats, but like most shows you just kind of look at it as a whole, but with cats, like everyone has their own journey. And there are some steps that line up, like I said, but it was easiest for me at least to start with one track, check it off, go to the next track, check it off and then review if I needed to, like if I was teaching it again.

[24:13] Mike Abrams: So how would you tell having done journey to journey to journey? How, how would you intertwine them and tell the story? Like if someone told, asked you, I'm going to go see it. What am I, what am I going to go see? How would you tell them what the plot they're going to go see and what to expect?

[24:31] Claire Camp: Well, this, this like makes me think of what I told Jeremy Davis, who was the Skimbleshanks in the revival. Um, who is a friend of mine from like, I did a show with him prior to cats and I also did Frozen with him. Um, but I really admire him and I, I knew that Andy wanted to cast him as Skimbleshanks and we both realized we were in the show and it was very exciting in the revival. And I texted him and I said, it's so dramatic. I texted him and I said, this show will change your life if you let it. Period. And I still stand by that comment. If you're watching it, it's also like, it depends on who you're watching. Like if you're watching a bomb ass cast and they're all really invested and they're really, they really care about you taking something from it, you're going to have a different experience than watching a show where people are like half assed.

You know, it's like, that's the, that's kind of the power of theater. Like your experience of watching it is going to be very different than my experience or someone else. Like it's always, it's not, we like to say it's consistent. It's not very consistent. So what I'm saying is like, I think anyone who would go to see cats, I would say be open to it. It's going to change your life. That's so dramatic. But like, that's how I feel. Like it will change your life if you let it. But I, to be fair, I don't really know what it would be like to be you and see cats not knowing anything about it and just watching it. Like I can imagine that being pretty hard. Like I fell in love with cats from the inside out.

From the inside out. So I have a very different relationship with it and obsession with it than someone who would just like go see cats. Like I'm sure that they see that shit and they're like, what the fuck is this? Sorry, I shouldn't swear, but you know what I'm saying? Like I do. To me, I'm like, it has so much meaning. It has so much meaning. It definitely, well, it definitely changed my life, but not in the way I was expecting it to. And I don't think it's the way you were telling people what it's going to. I don't think most people walk out.

[27:06] Mike Abrams: Obviously, it made an impact on you.

[27:10] Claire Camp: It did. I do. I don't think it would have, like, I would have walked out and said, "Oh, that changed my life." But I also went in, I think it depends on, I saw the second to last preview you did.

[27:27] Mike Abrams: Okay, yeah, we weren't ready.

[27:29] Claire Camp: And then I saw it a year later, almost to the date. And those were my two live showings ever of seeing it, the only two times I've ever seen it live. And then the movie, the 1998 movie on a plane, and a few others, like sporadic YouTube clip viewings, but that's it. So I saw the second last preview, which I was told I did learn at that time. That was where I learned that previews, there are a lot of changes to the dance.

[27:56] Mike Abrams: Yeah, like...

[27:58] Claire Camp: Oh, but no, but second last preview should be locked by now. So that was something told me before the show started. This was from someone who has at least some knowledge on theater, not someone from the show. And then a year later, I just was like, I don't remember that much. I just remember being a little weird and strange. And there's no story. So I was hoping to try to piece together more of the story the second time, and I didn't get any closer.

[28:26] Mike Abrams: Yeah, but I do think it is a polarizing show in the sense that it's so unlike most of the rest of what you would see on Broadway, that it's a different experience. And I think it's why people either love it or hate it. There's not a middle. There's not like anybody that walks out. It's like they either had a very pleasant and wild experience, or they just, it wasn't their cup of tea and they moved on.

[28:45] Claire Camp: Yeah, no one I've talked to that is in that bucket of people can give a reason why they hate it.

[28:49] Mike Abrams: Yeah, I guess I can understand. I was listening to it earlier because we're doing this podcast, and I was like, A, it gives me excuse to listen to Cats in my apartment and not feel embarrassed about it. But B, it's like, I wanted to refresh what it is, right? Like, I wanted to refresh that feeling when I get when I hear the music. And I was listening to some of the music. And I was like, this is very harsh on the ears. Like, it's beautiful in moments, but it's like, sometimes it's like very harsh. And like, I can imagine people who just don't like musical theater being like, "Oh, my God, like, what is this?" So I respect that. I really, I do. Like, if it's not someone's cup of tea, I totally get why. But I'm just like, you weren't open to it.

[29:54] Claire Camp: Yeah, you okay. I do want to go. I want to hear your, like, you said that there's a lot of depth to it. I want to hear a little bit about your take on like, where that depth is. But before I do that, you've said this twice now, and I'm not going to let you off the hook. But it sounds like your party trick is that you tell people what cat they're going to be.

[30:14] Mike Abrams: Okay.

[30:15] Claire Camp: Yeah. How did that start? And how is that received when someone like, do people generally follow along? Or do you say it to somebody who's like, "I've never seen Cats?" You're just like, "Yep, you're definitely a Skimbleshanks."

[30:27] Claire Camp: Well, I don't know. It kind of started within my musical, like more musical because Cats was my first show. I was kind of amazed that the casting was so like, Jacob cast it so well. And I was like, "Oh, my gosh, these characters are so them." And I thought that was cool. Like how you can, and there's so many opportunities in Cats where people can slip into those roles. And yeah, so I guess it started when I was like, in other shows, and I would just see being like, "Oh, you could play this part really well." Like you would play a great Alonzo, you play a great Carbucketty. Like, "Oh, you're such a Skimbleshanks." Like, you're this, you're that. And I just, I found it fun. I would say like, I told Andy that he was a Skimbleshanks and his response was, "That's the gay cat."

And I was like, "Well, that's the vibe you're giving me." But he, he actually, I think like my vision of Skimbleshanks has changed throughout the revival. Like, I think initially when I was introduced, it was like the gay uncle. Right. But then now I feel like Skimbleshanks is just like a, um, he's like a dapper Dan. He's like a, he's like a, he's a different, but I, again, every production, like people reinvent these roles, but there's qualities of them. Like, of course, Jeremy would be Skimbleshanks because he enjoys wearing three-piece suits in life. He loves wearing a suit. So I'm like, "Yeah, you are a Skimbleshanks." Like people come to you for advice. You're very professional. You're on time. You love wearing suits. You look sharp. Like, of course you would be that cat, right?

[32:29] Mike Abrams: Has anybody ever gotten really mad at you for who you called them?

[32:34] Claire Camp: No, not yet.

[32:36] Mike Abrams: Not yet. Who am I?

[32:38] Claire Camp: I don't know.

[32:40] Mike Abrams: Um, who are you?

[32:46] Claire Camp: I mean, I just met you. I've not thought about this. Usually I've like in detail thought about a lot of these things and I've not thought about this one because I cannot dance. I cannot sing. So I have no, it doesn't matter. That's why I haven't thought about that because I was like, I can't ever perform one of them. So I haven't thought about the personality type. So now I'm curious what vibe I give them.

[33:16] Claire Camp: I'm giving you, uh, I don't, that's definitely a cat I know very little about.

[33:24] Mike Abrams: Oh, okay.

[33:27] Claire Camp: Um, I don't know. Let me like, think about that. Maybe by the end of the conversation, I will have an idea, but again, we just met.

[33:38] Mike Abrams: So yeah, I'm not going to be offended.

[33:41] Claire Camp: No, I love the idea that this is a party trick. It's also like, it's my dream of being a casting director one day. Like I just, I just like putting people as parts. I love it. I'm like, "Oh, you play this part really well." So super, super fun. Um, tell me about the, having been able to do five different characters and see the tracks from five different eyes, how you kind of like interpret Grizabella's story.

[34:05] Claire Camp: Whoa. Um, how do I interpret Grizabella's story from five different eyes? Well, I would say, I was going to say like, it depends on, it really has nothing to do with me, but I guess that would be a good actor to like change their point of view towards another cat. So like, good for you for asking that. But, um, yeah, I think that maybe Bombalurina would have a very judgmental point of view towards Griz and Electra would have a very curious, um, point of view and Cassandra would have a very, you know, indifferent kind of observant. Like, we'll see how this plays out. I know how it's going to play out, but like, I'm going to just be here for the journey and Tantamile, same thing. She sees that something is going to shift, but like, doesn't know quite what it is.

And Victoria is so innocent and she wants to know why this woman is shunned and shamed from the tribe. So yeah, I think every single one, you're absolutely right. It has a different point of view towards Griz.

[35:45] Mike Abrams: Whose point of view do you agree with most? Like, who are you?

[35:48] Claire Camp: Here we go. You're trying to get me to agree with your point of view. I, I definitely, I try to not lead anybody too far down this path because I don't, like, there's an argument for all different ways. I feel like you, I know which cat you are.

[36:03] Mike Abrams: Okay. Do you have an answer now?

[36:05] Claire Camp: You're Bombalurina.

[36:07] Mike Abrams: Oh, okay.

[36:09] Claire Camp: I, um, that was not where I would have thought.

[36:13] Mike Abrams: Okay.

[36:14] Claire Camp: Maybe it'll change again. I don't know.

[36:15] Mike Abrams: I'm not offended.

[36:17] Claire Camp: I like it. You have a very clear view of Griz and, and you're not, you're not moving on that. You're like, she does not deserve to be reborn as a new Jellicle life. And I think if I told you the reason that I actually don't disagree, like my real rationale of why I disagree with it is very different from the thoughtful, real approaches that people have put into this, which is where it's like, I find it fascinating because I've heard all kinds of different takes of like, here's this personality. Here's this. And I saw Leona Lewis from the X Factor and I saw judge and I thought, yeah, it didn't work for you, which X Factor winner am I getting? And from that viewpoint only, I did not pick Grizabella.

[37:06] Claire Camp: Yeah, I don't blame you.

[37:08] Mike Abrams: So that is, that was how I interpreted the show when I first saw it and left. And I was like, I just saw a musical competition. And that totally makes sense. And I wasn't a fan of which cat was chosen based purely off of performances. And I feel like that was us not doing our job.

[37:25] Claire Camp: Oh, see, that's the, I don't think that at all.

[37:29] Mike Abrams: Really?

[37:30] Claire Camp: I feel like we didn't tell the story well enough.

[37:34] Mike Abrams: I think there's a lack of story.

[37:39] Claire Camp: There is so much story.

[37:41] Mike Abrams: There is so much story.

[37:43] Claire Camp: And maybe the story then tell us the story. Tell the people the story.

[37:48] Claire Camp: There is so much story. Like there is this, there's this tribe, right? There's this Jellicle tribe that meets in a junkyard once a year. It is like a very important night. I'm trying to compare it to something that we have. Like, I don't know, like the election, maybe or the Super Bowl or season finale.

[38:15] Mike Abrams: See, I'm bigger than that.

[38:17] Claire Camp: It's bigger than that.

[38:18] Mike Abrams: Bigger than the season finale.

[38:19] Claire Camp: It happens once a year.

[38:21] Mike Abrams: The Hunger Games, right?

[38:23] Claire Camp: Happens once a year. It happens once a year. Like a TV show season.

[38:29] Mike Abrams: Okay, I guess.

[38:30] Claire Camp: But it's like, it's so important. And they gather and they have so much pride to be a Jellicle, to be a cat, a certain kind of cat. And they know each other and they protect each other. And they have so like, they're very arrogant. Like, they're not like humble about anything. And they want to show off and Old Deuteronomy is their leader, their president, their, you know, their, who's the guy in Harry Potter? Dumbledore.

[39:07] Mike Abrams: Dumbledore.

[39:08] Claire Camp: They're, you know, and Misto is Harry. And, you know, there's this story of like, every tribe member has a place and a talent and something to learn. And wait, if Misto's Harry, Misto should win then.

[39:26] Mike Abrams: No, Misto should not win.

[39:29] Claire Camp: But then who wins Harry Potter?

[39:32] Mike Abrams: We're not talking about Harry Potter.

[39:34] Claire Camp: I'm just trying to follow your metaphors through here. I'm trying to relate it to Harry Potter because sometimes it gives that like kind of magic. You know how people are obsessed with Harry Potter? Like, that's kind of how I feel about Cats and how some people feel about Cats. That's how you have like a following, right? Like people love Cats.

[39:55] Mike Abrams: For sure.

[39:56] Claire Camp: Yeah. Okay. Keep going. Keep going. I don't want to stop.

[39:59] Claire Camp: So yeah, this night, this is such a unique Jellicle Ball, right? Because something different happens. There is a lesson that the Jellicles learn, I think. But they don't learn this lesson every other year. This is like a unique year. This is a unique year where something different happens. And it's about forgiveness. It's about humility. It's about seeing someone that you can't relate. It's so relevant to what's happening today. You know, it's like an experience that you know nothing about. And you don't know how...

[40:37] Claire Camp: That person got there, but the first thing you do is judge them and say, well, you didn't work hard enough. You didn't stay in line. You didn't do the right things. And it's like, Grizabella is clearly someone, depending on who's playing it, I think if someone plays it really well, you get that from the character. She made the wrong choices in her life, but she also like, did what she thought was best. And it's about this night is about giving someone a chance to be reborn and giving them another life, a different life, a different Jellicle life. But it's also a celebration of the Jellicles and the moon. Like the moon is such a huge part of the night. And they keep referencing this moon that is shining on them. And like, it's very wild. It's like they get to this like, wild place in the show.

[41:42] Claire Camp: So why is this so weird? Oh, yeah. Well, I was gonna... We're gonna ignore the orgy in the middle. We're gonna ignore... I mean, we don't have to ignore it. We can talk about it. The coming of age of Victoria. I mean, there's a lot that comes through all of this. And then within that main event, there's Macavity, there's Demeter, there's Baum, there's Munkestrap, who's kind of like the Deuteronomy's speaker, who's like the host of the evening. He's like the apprentice. He's next in line. Yeah. And then there's so many layers.

[42:18] Claire Camp: Why is this her year though? Why is it Grizz's year? Because she, I think she shows up and she is vulnerable. Like, I hate to pull a Brene Brown, but she is like, she comes to the ball. She has the nerve to come to this event and say, I was once one of you guys. I was once a Jellicle. I remember being young and beautiful and happy and showing off just like all of you and having my skill, which was the glamour cat, the Marilyn Monroe, the movie star. And I got in with the wrong crowd. I got in with Macavity. And I just want to be loved and forgiven and know my value beyond my beauty. And there's so much there. There's so much there.

[43:17] Claire Camp: So I don't, I don't disagree with Grizzabella's argument of redemption story. Again, like if you look at the, if the angle I took was, was American Idol X Factor, like, which from that standpoint, because that is not what it's about. Like, I understand that it's a talent show. You have like the Gumby cat and the magic cat and the train cat and the disc cat. But I think that's just them kind of keeping the evening going. Like they all want to, they all want to say, this is what I can do. Like, there's a lot of pride there.

[43:55] Claire Camp: For sure. And I think that's not, I don't want you to think that your cast didn't tell the story. Because it's, it's definitely...

[44:04] Claire Camp: They're going to hear me talking and be like, Claire, like we did great. Yeah, I loved it. I mean, here we are. After that, you know, this is also parody. So there's more fun to argue against Grizzabella. I do think though, again, I don't disagree with the redemption story. Where I do struggle with the redemption story is that if this is a night that is going to happen, that is like, it's the time of year, the moon, it's full moon. We're going to do this. We do this every year. And someone's going to get the victory of rebirth. And Grizzabella's not even there in the beginning.

[44:44] Claire Camp: Okay, yeah. And all of a sudden, she kind of comes in halfway through. There's already been a couple of people that's competing. She's observing throughout. Baby Grizz. There's something called Baby Grizz I learned about. Oh my god. It's in the opening number. She's in the opening. I don't know what that is. Like they just needed to cut that. But no, she comes and observes the ball. She's watching the ball. She comes later. She's not like, there's already been performances saying like, here's why I should go.

[45:17] Claire Camp: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I don't necessarily think those cats are like, here's why I should go. I think that they just are like, you know, MonkaStraff starts the evening being like, I have a gummy cat in mind. And he's just being like, let's start the show, kids. Start showing your talents. And it will end where it ends. But I don't know.

[45:44] Claire Camp: So you're saying because she wasn't there, she's not...

[45:49] Claire Camp: Not that she's not eligible. I just think that there has been a couple of arguments that have made me think a little bit more about it. That like, Old Deuteronomy has already made a decision. He's bringing her back. And this is all the whole like, that's been predetermined, which then kind of bugs me a little bit. Because it's like, well, why are you making all these cats do these numbers? And it's because people pay hundreds of dollars. And you can't just have her sing Memory and we can leave.

[46:11] Claire Camp: Like, Pilgrims don't go. We've got to give the other stuff. But that idea is like, okay, I kind of get that. But then if she just shows up partway through, then it's like, if I'm Gus, or if I'm everyone else who wants like, this is my time, or I'm going to go do my performance. I've already done my performance. And here's this person that ditched us is coming back. Like, she should be out next year. She should be up next year. Like, come for her time in.

[46:33] Claire Camp: I don't think she'll make it till next year. I think she's about to die. And this is the end of her road. This is it.

[46:41] Claire Camp: So you're...

[46:42] Claire Camp: And that's how you're voting now. You're voting off of like, she's not going to make it. I'm really, I'm realizing that I'm revealing my opinion right now. But yeah, she...

[46:54] Claire Camp: We're deep into this argument now. So we're just going to go into it now. Just go with it.

[46:58] Claire Camp: Yeah, we're not going to... We're here. She's on her last leg. She's really just had enough. She's had enough of life. And I think she's, she could, she's like about to die. Like that to last is like...

[47:15] Claire Camp: What about Gus?

[47:16] Claire Camp: What about Gus?

[47:17] Claire Camp: Gus is so amazing.

[47:19] Claire Camp: Gus has had a life full of adventure. Isn't he about to die now?

[47:23] Claire Camp: He is. But think about where Gus is. And think about where Grizz is. Like Gus has had a life full of rewarding stories, talking about his time as a cat in the theater, doing Shakespeare, like performing these roles of the growl tiger and the, what's the other one? I don't know. But the whole company is giving him so much love and attention. Like we all just stop and listen to Gus.

[47:54] Claire Camp: And Jelly being like, let me tell you about this elderly cat who has palsy and is just like lived this full life. And he's proud. And he's ready. He's saying, you know, I've had a good life. And like, I'm so thankful for these adventures I've had. Grizz is saying something different. She's saying, touch me. It's so easy to leave me and ignore me and to pretend like I fucked up. And I was the one that messed up my life. But like, I'm still a human under here, you know?

[48:37] Claire Camp: And like, it's that person on the subway that you want to ignore.

[48:44] Claire Camp: Hmm.

[48:48] Claire Camp: I like that better than Harry Potter.

[48:49] Claire Camp: Okay.

[48:50] Claire Camp: It's that person that like smells bad and is like in your face saying, please help me. And you're like, I am on my way to work. Like I worked hard to just, I paid my taxes to go to work. Why are you bothering me? And it's like that humility of really just hearing this woman's story. And I think Old Deuteronomy wants us to learn something from this story.

[49:22] Claire Camp: I think this is why it's a unique year. Like he is saying, listen to her. And maybe we can learn something about not giving it to the most talented, the most beautiful, the most loved, the most successful, and giving it to someone who actually wants a chance.

[49:45] Claire Camp: Someone who needs it.

[49:47] Claire Camp: Yes, exactly. This is the most passionate defense of racism I've heard yet.

[49:52] Claire Camp: Like, am I okay? I'm about to cry.

[49:56] Claire Camp: I love it. I'm not ready to fully change the title of the show. But I do appreciate how into this you're getting.

[50:08] Claire Camp: Oh God, I love it. Of defending Grizabella.

[50:12] Claire Camp: Well, it also depends on who's playing it. Like I've heard some really amazing candidates.

[50:20] Claire Camp: I've heard some really amazing Grizabellas saying this. And you feel their story. You feel their team.

[50:28] Claire Camp: So that part I don't disagree with. I...

[50:31] Claire Camp: Watching someone's in memory and like the passion and like the like...

[50:36] Claire Camp: It does feel like they're putting every ounce of their being into that moment.

[50:40] Claire Camp: Yeah.

[50:41] Claire Camp: And it's truly the best part for a company member.

[50:44] Claire Camp: So you turn your back on Griz and you're supposed to turn around when it touches you genuinely.

[50:56] Claire Camp: So every night it's different, right? So like Jacob Brent would say, you're going to listen to the whole song with your back turned to her. And when you feel like you can genuinely turn around and hear her, that's when you do it.

[51:12] Claire Camp: And you may never turn around. You may say like, girl, it's not you. Stop crying. Like, you just may not give a shit.

[51:21] Claire Camp: But it's a cool moment as a company member where it involves you and you have a choice.

[51:29] Claire Camp: I have a feeling you always turned around based on how passionately you defended her.

[51:34] Claire Camp: I was the first to turn around.

[51:38] Claire Camp: No, not on a matinee when I'm tired.

[51:42] Claire Camp: I just was like, I'm keeping my back to the audience a little longer.

[51:47] Claire Camp: I appreciate the very passionate defense of Grizabella. I, again, I'm not ready to change my mind.

[51:59] Claire Camp: You shouldn't.

[52:01] Claire Camp: I do think that there is an argument for her. I've always thought there's an argument for her. But I also do kind of view the show a little bit now of like, there is the beauty piece of it. There's like, there's just like how it is a very deep and thoughtful piece that like, if you think about all the other pieces, then there's also this interpretation where you can just be like, okay, it's an orgy.

[52:20] Claire Camp: It's a coming of age. All these cats are basically screwing around with each other. There's one that's like basically sexually abusing two or three of the other ones. He's going to try to kidnap his brother and murder his brother. Oh, and by the way, we're going to murder a cat at the end. And that's a good.

[52:34] Claire Camp: Yeah, it's dark.

[52:36] Claire Camp: Yeah, it's a dark show. And it's meant for children.

[52:40] Claire Camp: Yeah, I can see.

[52:41] Claire Camp: Yeah, it's very like, also the sexuality of all of it is very welcomed.

[52:48] Claire Camp: I think some of the things I had the privilege of meeting Jillian Lynn twice in my life and she's awesome. But some of the stories I've heard and what I've heard her say, it's like the sexuality of the piece is so welcomed and so like a part of it. You know, it's like, and maybe why some audiences love it.

[53:14] Claire Camp: Um, I also think it's cool that there's this blurred line between genders, male and female. But like, I, I do think like, that sexuality is something that they wanted us to feel comfortable. It's like, we're, we're animals, right? So we're, we're not humans.

[53:39] Claire Camp: You're cats.

[53:40] Claire Camp: Yeah, we're cats. So like, there's a comfortability with this.

[53:45] Claire Camp: Um, they call it the sensual clump, which is an orgy. This is an orgy, where you're rolling around on each other.

[53:54] Claire Camp: Yes.

[53:58] Claire Camp: I think that's why I, I don't know. Like, I think, I think that's a really cool aspect of the show, to be honest. I think it can be uncomfortable, but it's never felt uncomfortable.

[54:09] Claire Camp: It's only felt uncomfortable when, like, a weird director is watching me, you know, being like, whoa, she looks hot in that unitard. But it's never been uncomfortable on stage with my fellow actors. I feel like we're all just like trying to get in that place of like, you know, what would a cat, if you watch a cat, they are quite sensual. Like, the way they, like, rub their head against a pillow, or like another cat. It's beautiful. It's like, so, yeah, it's, it's strange that it's a kid show. But it's also like, I don't blame them for marketing it as a kid show and an adult show because they're trying to sell tickets.

[54:57] Mike Abrams: Yeah, I mean, make, make money. You got to make the money.

[55:01] Claire Camp: Yeah.

[55:02] Mike Abrams: Okay, we, I want to do the rapid fire still. And we've eliminated the last question because we've discussed it at length, which is if you agreed with me, which you clearly do not. I have a question for you, though. Do you think that Gus should have been picked?

[55:17] Claire Camp: I think that depends. So this is, I'm going to dance around your answer a little bit though. I think it depends on how you interpret the show is a huge piece of how you would choose your Jellicle choice. And that's, I think, part of the beauty of the show is that there probably is, well, there's clearly at least one there, there is a right answer, which I think is wrong, because the show ends with Grizabella dying every night. But if you want to say who probably has the accolades, is most deserving, is also in that older group, I think, you know, I think Gus is one of the easier arguments to make. I think if you want the redemption, Old Deuteronomy is teaching a lesson, yeah, then it's Grizabella for you.

I think if it's purely performance, like a show, it's going to be different for everybody, because it's going to be really dependent on what you either interpreted or just were most entertained by. And for me, again, seeing The X Factor, I always loved that they made groups, they put people together, you know, the One Direction, Fifth Harmony, all those groups came from Old Deuteronomy, piecing them together from a single show. So I would have put Tugophiles or Toxtophiles, because I think that they are together in the first place. And I thought they were two of the more entertaining numbers. I was like, super fun. And so I think if you're if you've got the X Factor, American Idol voting, American audience, yeah, it's probably picking those two together.

[56:46] Mike Abrams: That's why this, this year is different. That's why this Jellicle Ball is different. I need to be invited to a different Jellicle Ball. I need to come to like, season three Jellicle Ball.

[56:57] Claire Camp: No, you're making such a great point, though. It's like, it's like the show is presented as who has the best talent, but really, the show starts that way. But we all change as cats by the end of the show. And we expect the audience to be changed, too. And that's kind of how we wrap the show up. It's like, we're not that different after all. Like, that's if you really hear the, if you hear the lyrics at the end.

[57:28] Mike Abrams: I will tell you, if you know, no, no, I don't. I don't disagree with you. I'm just telling you, if you go to Hollywood, and you write a pilot, and as you're filming, you're just like, you know what, we're gonna actually kill this cat and go with a totally different ending because this is how we're feeling today. It's probably not going to get picked up for more episodes.

[57:45] Claire Camp: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[57:47] Mike Abrams: But I have trouble arguing against 40 plus years of success as well. So it's a very well-defined show.

[58:00] Claire Camp: I think, yeah, they thought about, I think also they probably created it and years and years after, it's been analyzed and shifted and changed. And that's kind of like the messages that I got from it based on the people I've worked with. But like, everyone has such a love for this show after doing it. Like, I remember the people that I initially did the tour with, they had such a kind of entitlement about it. Like, and I remember being like, chill out. And listen to me now.

[58:37] Mike Abrams: Defending to the death.

[58:40] Claire Camp: I mean, just like obsessed. So I understand what this show can do to people and like, especially being a part of it.

[58:49] Mike Abrams: No, Grizabella is wrong. Has anybody made that argument with you? Or am I the only one really tackling this one?

[58:55] Claire Camp: No, you're the only one I've ever had this conversation with because usually when I start talking about cats, it's like cut off immediately.

[59:06] Mike Abrams: You either offended them that you called them a cat and they're just like, oh, that's not me or they don't know what you're talking about.

[59:11] Claire Camp: And they're just like, I don't want to talk about cats.

[59:15] Mike Abrams: Well, the people here who are listening do want to listen about it. I hope that or they just are a friend of mine who has stuck through the thick and thin of this. OK, let's do some rapid fire real quick, though. If you you've played a lot of the different cats, but if you could put any single number at any time, who would you play?

[59:34] Claire Camp: I'm going to say not Cassandra, because I know that that's probably your answer. So anybody else?

[59:40] Mike Abrams: Old Deuteronomy.

[59:41] Claire Camp: Old Deuteronomy. I love it.

[59:42] Mike Abrams: You so you can make sure that Grizabella is the choice.

[59:46] Claire Camp: Because I clearly have an opinion about this.

[59:50] Mike Abrams: Favorite and least favorite cat.

[59:53] Claire Camp: And least favorite.

[59:56] Mike Abrams: You're going to really disagree with me, Mistoffelees.

[1:00:01] Claire Camp: Favorite. Oh, gosh, I love them all. Favorite. I love Skimbleshanks.

[1:00:08] Mike Abrams: What's the anti-Mistoffelees like?

[1:00:14] Claire Camp: Where's that? I just feel like he's like a young kid that's like super talented and special and a little entitled. And like he I'm so sick of singing his name over and over again. Like I'm like, what? We're wasting time. Like, OK, anyway, that's that's clearly not your favorite song. What's your favorite song in the show?

[1:00:39] Claire Camp: Oh, God, I don't even know. Does the overture count?

[1:00:44] Mike Abrams: Sure. They'll count.

[1:00:46] Claire Camp: I think the beginning. I think the like, like basically the Jellicle Ball music is a lot of the overture. It's like that exciting kind of synthy, like 80s, like the audience is in the dark. Like, what? What are we about to get into? And I love that. Also, the adrenaline you get as a performer.

[1:01:12] Mike Abrams: Yeah, because it's the beginning.

[1:01:14] Claire Camp: OK, I like it. My now I'm going to rephrase the question here. We are now a little bit further along. I've been who was I first? I was I forget who you said first. Then I was Bomb. Who who am I now? Who do you think I am? And this is your party trick. This is like you'd have to come back. All right. Who are you casting me at?

[1:01:38] Claire Camp: And I feel like so I'm like, who are the cats again? And I think I have my own answer now.

[1:01:46] Mike Abrams: Who is it? Who is your answer?

[1:01:47] Claire Camp: I think it'll surprise people. So I want to hear what you say first.

[1:01:53] Mike Abrams: Gosh. See, you're not a Tugger. No, you're not a Gus, you're not a Bustopher, you're not a Misto.

[1:02:08] Claire Camp: I can see some Skimbleshanks in you.

[1:02:12] Mike Abrams: I think you're like either a Tumblebrutus or a Rum Tum Tugger or a Mungojerrie.

[1:02:19] Claire Camp: I don't know. I don't know. Who do you think you are?

[1:02:23] Mike Abrams: So I feel like I'm failing at this thing. I have to say this is your thing. Not mine. This is your trick.

[1:02:30] Claire Camp: I don't think that this will come off for anybody who's listened to the show, because I definitely like I probably am more extrovert in the show than I am in real life. I'm very Midwest. And I feel like a lot of Midwest comes out of Bustopher, just like kind of happy-go-lucky. They're just shows up, eats a lot, kind of hangs out and then leaves like finery.

[1:02:54] Mike Abrams: No, there's a lot that doesn't fit with this, though, because like there's a lot of the rest of Bustopher's track where I'm just like, no, that's definitely wouldn't be me either. But I don't feel like I neatly fit in any of these. So that's why I think you might be a Pouncival.

[1:03:09] Claire Camp: I just don't want to be a Peter.

[1:03:16] Mike Abrams: Like who? Peter.

[1:03:20] Claire Camp: Who's Peter Buskirk?

[1:03:23] Mike Abrams: Buskirk. Oh, OK.

[1:03:25] Claire Camp: So he's in the opening.

[1:03:27] Mike Abrams: OK, OK. I think you're not a Peter.

[1:03:31] Claire Camp: You're not worthless.

[1:03:32] Mike Abrams: I will tell you that you're not just as long as I'm not.

[1:03:35] Claire Camp: You're a part of the tribe.

[1:03:36] Mike Abrams: Any any other one? You're a part of the tribe. I think you're you're a tribe member that's like observant and curious, but you aren't necessarily trying to be the show. Like you're not trying. Like you're observant, curious and like want to be a part of the festivities. But you don't need to be the main act.

[1:03:59] Claire Camp: Yeah. So I would be I wouldn't have my own song.

[1:04:01] Mike Abrams: No. So that's why I'm saying Tumblebrutus or Mungojerrie, because you offer a lot and you contribute a lot. Like, so you have tricks and you have fun and you're playful. But like, you're not necessarily going to be like, and now the main part of it, like.

[1:04:22] Claire Camp: I'll take it. I think that's that seems right. That feels right. I'm impressed by this party trick now.

[1:04:31] Mike Abrams: OK, two more important questions. What are you currently working on? OK.

[1:04:38] Claire Camp: Well, I'm living in New York City again, and I'm actually my next project I'm doing is I'm choreographing a music video. I'm choreographing a music video for the band Delta Rae.

[1:04:54] Mike Abrams: Cool. They are an awesome band based in Nashville, kind of like a Fleetwood Mac vibe.

[1:05:04] Claire Camp: And yeah, so I'll be at the end of the month going to Nashville to choreograph and be in this music video. So I'm very excited about that.

[1:05:15] Mike Abrams: That is very awesome. We will hopefully be able to link it into this into the description so people can see it if it's if it's ready and live by then.

[1:05:26] Claire Camp: Yeah. And how can we find you on social media?

[1:05:29] Claire Camp: Camp underscore Claire. So Camp Claire on Instagram, that's the only platform I use because that's the only one that I can handle. One's funny. No pun intended. But yeah, so I don't do I don't have a Facebook or Twitter, but I am on Instagram and I've been teaching a lot at studios. I'm teaching Broadway theater dance at a school in Philly this summer. But yeah, I plan to keep performing after this pandemic and I'm getting back in shape right now. So I'm ready for the next job when it comes for me, when it's ready for me.

[1:06:08] Mike Abrams: So, yeah. Well, thank you so much for coming on, defending Grizabella to her death, literally to her death and sharing your story. I mean, it's super fun to hear about the regional experiences all the way through to Broadway and everything you've done for the show and brought to the show. And I love how passionate you are about it, which makes this so fun.

[1:06:30] Claire Camp: Yeah. And no, it was great. Anytime you want to talk about cats, I'm here for you.

[1:06:36] Mike Abrams: We're going to have beers in New York where we just debate who at the bar of what cat they are.

[1:06:43] Claire Camp: Yeah. It's my goal to make everyone fall in love with cats. So I hope you love it a little more after this conversation.

[1:06:50] Mike Abrams: Slowly but surely, we're convincing everyone that they need to see the show.

[1:06:55] Claire Camp: And I know I'm I'm a fan. I'm ready to go see it when it's back.

[1:06:59] Mike Abrams: Yeah, live. I want to see it live.

[1:07:02] Claire Camp: Yeah. We'll see if it ever makes it back to Broadway. But I hope I get to have another Jellicle life.

[1:07:09] Mike Abrams: Yes. Well said, Mike.

[1:07:12] Claire Camp: I do. I do. I hope we all have another Jellicle life.

[1:07:16] Mike Abrams: I think I think we do.

[1:07:21] Claire Camp: Well, thank you again for being on.

[1:07:26] Mike Abrams: And thanks, everyone else, for listening to this episode with Claire Camp on The Wrong Cat Died, the podcast breakdown of the cat's atrophy. To follow along, subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Stitcher or anywhere else you listen to podcasts. Follow us on Twitter and Instagram at TheWrongCatDied or check out our website, thewrongcatdied.com.