This transcript was automatically generated and might contain errors.

[0:00] Ebony Vines: Welcome to Theatre Geeks Anonymous.

[0:05] Pamela Shandrow: The podcast about Broadway flops, scandals, and new work.

[0:08] Ebony Vines: I'm your host, Ebony Vines.

[0:10] Pamela Shandrow: And I'm your host, Pamela Shandrow.

[0:13] Ebony Vines: Don't forget to rate, review, and subscribe to the Theatre Geeks Anonymous Podcast.

[0:18] Pamela Shandrow: On the Broadway Podcast Network and all your favorite podcast listening apps.

[0:23] Ebony Vines: Thank you.

[0:27] Ebony Vines: Okay, I blew us out last week, so I'm gonna do this really quietly ready. Welcome.

[0:34] Ebony Vines: What's up, Theater Geeks?

[0:36] Pamela Shandrow: What is up?

[0:37] Ebony Vines: Oh my goodness. What is the what is up? What's up? What is up? What is that? What is a what is a we we have not done one of these episodes in a while, I feel in a little bit.

[0:52] Pamela Shandrow: Is that right, Pamela?

[0:54] Ebony Vines: So I I feel like the last new work we did.

[0:58] Pamela Shandrow: Yeah.

[1:00] Ebony Vines: Was it last year?

[1:02] Pamela Shandrow: Was it that long ago?

[1:04] Ebony Vines: What? Like, so I think, like, wasn't it like Dodie and Diana?

[1:08] Pamela Shandrow: Yeah.

[1:09] Ebony Vines: Wow. Okay, so this is super this is exciting for us and the audience.

[1:14] Pamela Shandrow: This is gonna be very exciting today.

[1:16] Ebony Vines: Yeah. And perhaps other people.

[1:20] Ebony Vines: Well, I said us in the audience. We were listening. There's other people besides that. Right? Who's that?

[1:26] Pamela Shandrow: What if they haven't ever listened to it? What if it's like an old person who doesn't have access to podcasts?

[1:32] Ebony Vines: Well, how were they find us?

[1:34] Pamela Shandrow: Well, maybe their grandson is like, I listen to this awesome Theatre Geeks Anonymous podcast.

[1:39] Ebony Vines: And they tell like, what's that? And hear like, it's Theatre Geeks Anonymous, Grandpa. What's up?

[1:45] Pamela Shandrow: Oh, well, I'll tell you. And it's a whole thing. And then we get to this wonderful musical we're gonna talk about.

[1:54] Ebony Vines: Well, I've definitely mentioned this musical before on the podcast, like when I um have gone to a previous reading of it, or when I just want to talk about Robbie for no particular reason.

[2:09] Ebony Vines: And so I am sure that uh I am sure that everybody has has heard it mentioned, but I'm very excited to be able to share um this musical with everyone.

[2:21] Ebony Vines: So today we are doing a new works episode of Theatre Geeks Anonymous, and we have the writers of this wonderful musical here, and they're going to tell us all about the show, how the show came to be.

[2:37] Pamela Shandrow: Yep, and also everyone, if you're in the New York area, you're gonna have a chance to hear the music and go to a live in-person concert of this show.

[2:48] Ebony Vines: So it's very exciting.

[2:51] Pamela Shandrow: We are very excited. Is the perfect venue for you guys to like fully show us what it's about and where and when to see it?

[2:59] Ebony Vines: I mean, can you imagine? So here we are. So today I'm going to introduce Robbie Sandler and Lizzie Hagstedt, and they are going to tell us all about this incredible show that we are very excited to talk about called Hereville.

[3:19] Robbie Sandler: Go ahead, Robbie.

[3:21] Robbie Sandler: Oh gosh. In that case, hi, I'm Robbie Sandler. Uh, they them, if you want to talk about me.

[3:27] Robbie Sandler: Um I am joined by Oh, you do it.

[3:34] Lizzie Hagstedt: Lizzie Hagstedt who's burping at the moment, which was like Oh god.

[3:41] Robbie Sandler: I the one time in my life you wanted me to keep talking and I went dead silent. Um can you guys like say what you did on the show too?

[3:52] Lizzie Hagstedt: Yeah, please.

[3:53] Robbie Sandler: Okay, so then properly, I am Robbie Sandler and uh book writer and lyricist on Hereville.

[4:00] Lizzie Hagstedt: Perfect. And I'm Lizzie Hagstedt, and I uh I wrote the music.

[4:06] Robbie Sandler: Amazing. So, Robbie, can you tell everyone the story from November 2014, the very beginning?

[4:17] Robbie Sandler: Okay. It's a very good place to start. I yes. In the spirit of it being a family show that happens to be at the Center for Jewish History on November 9th at 6:30 p.m. I'll say it several times. Just just so we've got it. The Myth of Origin story has one curse word in it right at the beginning, and I will just dodge it.

[4:39] Robbie Sandler: And that is I am married to a practicing pagan who said one year, 2014, I want to go to Salem, Massachusetts, for that is where the witches gather. But he wanted to go after Halloween. So we went early November and saw Salem, Massachusetts after a Halloween parade, which is a little messy. And we went to a lot of suddenly very quiet magic stores. But then after about seven hours of going in and out of different stores that were deeply interesting to my spouse, I said, Oh my god, I cannot go to another bleeping magic store.

[5:29] Robbie Sandler: And so I went to the comic book shop across the street. And in that comic book shop, they had a graphic novel section where I saw the covers of the first two books in Barry Deutsch's Hereville series, which were How Mirka Got Her Sword and How Mirka Met a Meteorite. And at the top of that second one, there was a tagline that said, boldly going where no orthodox Jewish girl has gone before. And I thought, you know, this is this is one of those moments when culture is for me. And uh and so I picked up the book and it lived at the intersection of Judaism, precocious children, complicated mom stuff, and magic. And I thought, you know, again, this is for me.

[6:24] Robbie Sandler: Yeah. So I wrote the author a fan letter, and I didn't even have a full-length musical to point him toward and say, I'm pretty sure I can do this. What I had were was or were warr. What I had was uh a set of songs that I'd written in the BMI musical theater writing workshop and songs that I had written from musicals with Lizzie from college and post college. From 10 years ago.

[6:57] Lizzie Hagstedt: Amazing.

[6:59] Robbie Sandler: And yes, wait, 10 years before 2014. Oh. Like Lizzie and I wrote our first songs together in 2004, 2005.

[7:04] Lizzie Hagstedt: 2004, 2005.

[7:11] Robbie Sandler: So yeah, these are like 10 year old songs. That's you know what? That are almost 20 year old songs now. Nope. Nope. Dope their dog. That's not how time works.

[7:21] Lizzie Hagstedt: No, I think it's a good thing.

[7:24] Robbie Sandler: Yeah. If these songs were girls in our show, Lizzie, they would be adults with the city.

[7:35] Lizzie Hagstedt: Or pleasantly child free.

[7:37] Robbie Sandler: That's true. Though I will say one of the things that this show deals with is the fact that in the orthodox community, the family unit is so important that one of the big conflicts that this show really addresses is that the main character Mirka is an 11-year-old whose family has recently blended because her stepmother moved back from the secular world to the orthodox world where she grew up, and she married Mirka's dad. So it's a stepdaughter stepmother situation where they really don't get along, but it had to happen when it happened because after the prescribed year of mourning, it was culturally responsible for her father to marry again and have a second parent, a woman in the house.

[8:32] Robbie Sandler: So that's something that I think about a lot with this show because it's the emotional heart of it. Despite it being, you know, a graphic novel type story, which means it could go to some places of really high fantasy.

[8:52] Lizzie Hagstedt: That's awesome.

[8:53] Lizzie Hagstedt: And it does. Yeah. We when um so when when Robbie found this um graphic novel, we worked together at a media company which is no longer in existence. Our friendship outlasted the media company. And um, uh-huh. And um uh and and the first thing Robbie said to me about this book was that um it's a book about a young orthodox Jewish girl who all she wants to do is slay dragons.

[9:29] Lizzie Hagstedt: And I was like, Oh my goodness. This sounds so cool.

[9:33] Robbie Sandler: That does sound really cool.

[9:35] Lizzie Hagstedt: I know. I'm just I was so excited. And it was after, you know, uh a period of time that had been kind of crazy for us because of something that happened in in my life, and so it was like a really fun thing to look forward to and hear Robbie talk about and where he where they were on the journey and um uh contacting Barry and all of those things, and so it's been fun to see the inception of it, the moment that Robbie went to the bookstore and found the graphic novel all the way to now and it coming into its own and also like having this concert reading that people can go to and actually see this thing that like I've been telling people about, and and nobody's been able to see yet. So this is like really, really exciting and a beautiful piece of um just hope and joy that uh Robbie allowed me to share with him during a period of grief, and also this graphic novel is also about grief.

[10:47] Robbie Sandler: Oh, it is, yeah.

[10:49] Lizzie Hagstedt: But I also have to tell you, we can talk about the myth of origin of this story a lot, but as someone who sometimes cries from the music notes, even when it's text that I wrote, because I've cried at demos more than once. Sometimes I admit it, sometimes I don't, but music can do that, yeah, it can. And the fact is, until Lizzie came on board with a brain that I have to tell you is not just the brain of a composer, but an actor and frankly a dramaturg as well, in that we had deep talks about why this world was musical and what existing music from Jewish homes could come into it and be part of it.

[11:38] Lizzie Hagstedt: Sure.

[11:39] Robbie Sandler: How long after the rights did you all start start this work?

[11:43] Lizzie Hagstedt: I was not initially brought on, I was brought on in 2017, I think.

[11:51] Robbie Sandler: Oh, okay, okay.

[11:56] Lizzie Hagstedt: But there wasn't really a score yet. It was a pile of ideas, and some of them rhymed.

[12:04] Robbie Sandler: Okay, okay. And then yeah, and I I remember I was I was asked to set a song as kind of an audition, and it's still in the show, which is kind of cool.

[12:19] Lizzie Hagstedt: And it's still largely in the same form.

[12:21] Robbie Sandler: Well, not quite. Um, but I was a little upset at being asked to audition.

[12:31] Lizzie Hagstedt: And I have never heard you write klezmer music before.

[12:38] Robbie Sandler: But it's I I basically took this drum beat and I used my I layered my own voice and I did a demo using where I didn't notate anything. I just like free form vocaled um what I thought it sounded like.

[12:54] Lizzie Hagstedt: Wow, that's cool.

[12:56] Robbie Sandler: Yeah. And it mostly worked. And it's actually still very I mean, I could play that for you and you would hear, oh, it I I hear how we got where we are.

[13:07] Lizzie Hagstedt: Yeah, it and it set a tone that I think really goes through the entirety of the score.

[13:15] Robbie Sandler: So I at this point it's so hard to think of it as like this is the lyric that I wrote, this is the music that Lizzie wrote. Because not only are these songs just songs that I think of as existing songs now, but I anyone who ever wants to write a lyric ever get you a composer like Lizzie who will question the things you've written when they don't make sense because even when the notes are hard, if it gets to a point where it makes sense to both of us, the chord structures start developing differently underneath it. It becomes a more emotional song because it's a good one.

[13:59] Lizzie Hagstedt: Well, in a true collaboration.

[14:04] Robbie Sandler: Can you say that again?

[14:05] Lizzie Hagstedt: Oh, I'm sorry, a true collaboration.

[14:07] Robbie Sandler: Yeah.

[14:08] Lizzie Hagstedt: Yeah. I mean, and we've talked, Ebony and I have in past episodes talked about how sometimes the lyricist and the composer don't quite they aren't quite working in the same musical.

[14:20] Ebony Vines: And we've talked about that with within like Andrew Lloyd Webber's musicals. Like, you know, it's really something very important.

[14:30] Robbie Sandler: Yes, indeed.

[14:32] Lizzie Hagstedt: It is something though very important to have that kind of true collaboration and true relationship with your lyricist and composer. And I think people think, oh well, we'll just write the words first and then set it to music.

[14:45] Lizzie Hagstedt: And sometimes that works, but yeah, it's also really helpful. I think, you know, fine, if the words are written first, that's great. But then it's nice to like work together then to set it to music, which is it sounds to me like is what you did.

[14:59] Robby Sandler: Well, and I think like I've had people I've worked with where I've gotten that hard line of like, I'll give a suggestion about a lyric, and they'll be like, Well, you know what? I don't want to take that. I'm the lyricist, it's my job. Like, and I'm like, okay, so and then I know, okay, I'm gonna do my job as well as I can, but I'm maybe not going to invest my heart in this.

[15:27] Lizzie Hagstedt: Sure. And that's but I mean, most of the time that's not the people that I've wound up working long term with.

[15:34] Robby Sandler: Right. Um, when you do like Robby and I both came up through the BMI workshop and like uh they they started. I'm I don't know if you've ever talked about it, but like it basically starts as a grand like speed dating thing where they'll like throw you in couples and be like, go off into a tiny room and come back with a song.

[15:53] Lizzie Hagstedt: And you're like, cool. And sometimes it's fabulous. Sometimes you, the lyricist, give a note to a composer you're working with who shall remain nameless.

[16:06] Robby Sandler: And they respond, do you want to compose this? And you know.

[16:11] Lizzie Hagstedt: Or sometimes the lyricist you're working with who will remain nameless, um decides that he has to work a specific way. And so despite the fact that you're in tech, you're asked to come in at eight in the morning and work with him before you go to tech and then after.

[16:30] Robby Sandler: And I'm like, yeah, people, it's it's but then you find the people who match your collaboration style.

[16:39] Lizzie Hagstedt: And the thing the fact is that might be well, clearly it is for somebody I happen to know. I don't know about the person Robbie's talking about, but um, I happen to know the person I'm talking about is working and good for them.

[16:52] Robby Sandler: And hopefully that um like it's it's it's finding a way to like I I really believe that I don't want anything in the show that at least my collaborators aren't okay with.

[17:13] Lizzie Hagstedt: Maybe there's stuff that like I love and Robbie's like new chon, but I don't actually don't think there's much of that at this, or like Robbie loves an I'm new chon. Like at the very least, I want to get to there.

[17:27] Robby Sandler: I'd love to have as a high percentage as possible.

[17:30] Lizzie Hagstedt: Sure. I think we've gotten a lot better in this, especially in this past year, because like we we've really had a lot of opportunity this year to like really put the show under a magnifying glass and keep working on it because we got to do um two sets of I would say processes in California and kind of like work on it.

[17:54] Robby Sandler: Uh we did a very casual reading in March, and we got to go to California and work with a company of actors, and that taught us it was actually um the show features I would say between three to four children.

[18:09] Lizzie Hagstedt: There's a role that could be a child, um but um so she is to try I'm just gonna drop this without any context. She is an ancient meteor clone of our 11-year-old protagonist.

[18:22] Robby Sandler: Oh, that's awesome.

[18:24] Lizzie Hagstedt: So, but because of the kind of humor she has to deliver, it's a very specific kind of humor that we feel like it might be better served by like a a young-looking adult who can serve youth.

[18:42] Robby Sandler: As the casting note for that particular character says, it says, um, the age is timeless. We will all pretend that it looks like Mirka. You can cast any actor at all if you think you can find comedy in it.

[18:57] Lizzie Hagstedt: Exactly. One caveat, and that is you can't cast anyone who identifies as male in this show, because orthodox Jewish women cannot sing by themselves in front of men.

[19:12] Robby Sandler: Oh, interesting.

[19:14] Lizzie Hagstedt: Okay. And so, out of respect for that rule, which falls under their laws of tsneas or modesty, we had to we decided very early on that the show had to be a version of this world that did not have male characters in it.

[19:33] Robby Sandler: Because to write a musical that was not accessible to the people it was about is not a celebration of them but an exploitation of them.

[19:44] Lizzie Hagstedt: Well, and the and the book has like a handful. I I would say the only major male character in the book is is Mirka's brother, who we kind of absorbed into um two of her sisters.

[19:58] Robby Sandler: Okay.

[19:58] Lizzie Hagstedt: But like he's he does Papa appears Papa appears, but I don't does he even have a single line?

[20:04] Robby Sandler: I don't think he does.

[20:06] Lizzie Hagstedt: I don't know. And and the troll that exists in the first book, I think exists kind of beyond gender.

[20:14] Robby Sandler: Because nothing that this six-legged creature does is particularly gendered.

[20:21] Lizzie Hagstedt: I mean, I always kind of heard him as like an old school like Gilbert and Sullivan talk singer.

[20:29] Robby Sandler: Like that's fair, like yeah, like he would have been David Hyde Pierce in the animated movie.

[20:35] Lizzie Hagstedt: A hundred percent. Like that's always what I but we we but I oh we were.

[20:42] Robby Sandler: Yes, he fit the brief.

[20:44] Lizzie Hagstedt: But a troll is also not human, so it would not fall into the same.

[20:49] Robby Sandler: No, exactly.

[20:50] Lizzie Hagstedt: And I think we were gonna like we had some the tr I think the troll made exactly one reading.

[20:56] Robby Sandler: I did we did have my friend Lisa read and sing the troll author.

[21:01] Lizzie Hagstedt: The troll did did make it to the first reading, yes.

[21:05] Robby Sandler: And then and then uh and then they died.

[21:10] Lizzie Hagstedt: Buried under a bridge somewhere.

[21:13] Robby Sandler: You know what they say? Cut your darlings.

[21:16] Lizzie Hagstedt: Oh, correctly. But I was saying um what before we went on a lengthy tangent, I was like, uh, we had never gotten to do the show with kids.

[21:26] Robby Sandler: And because we've always tapped like our youthful voiced adult friends.

[21:32] Lizzie Hagstedt: Yes.

[21:32] Robby Sandler: Because also it's you know, it's it is it's more complicated to work with kids.

[21:36] Lizzie Hagstedt: Yes.

[21:37] Robby Sandler: Um and as much as like I really wanted to do it, because like honestly, I think like kid performers are always incredible.

[21:46] Lizzie Hagstedt: And like um kids are brilliant, especially theater kids who have not been taught by their peers that their imagination is a liability.

[21:56] Robby Sandler: So they just bring it.

[21:58] Lizzie Hagstedt: Yeah. Icons.

[22:00] Robby Sandler: So we got to finally do the show with kids, which like taught us a lot, and we were able to like make some like I went through and I made sure like all the harmonies had buddies, yeah.

[22:14] Lizzie Hagstedt: Um I forget what else I did.

[22:19] Robby Sandler: Like and I should say though, while we talk about this, big ups to the San Diego J Fest.

[22:27] Lizzie Hagstedt: Um because it is the as I the longest running Jewish arts festival in the country, um, and definitely in California.

[22:38] Robby Sandler: Yeah, um, it's been going for about 30 years, uh, and and because of them, we got to you know, work in the rehearsal halls and stages of the old globe while we were out here, which was the coolest, even though when you get lost on your way to the old globe, you are hiking in a desert.

[22:58] Lizzie Hagstedt: We really we really got lost like yeah we got so there was a marathon and it was preventing us from entering balboa park and what I say we we made the worst possible plan to conquer this um we we wound up walking I think about how how many miles serious decline and incline up canyons along a highway through a cactus garden which is prettier than I thought it would be my brain goes right to cactus but you can really garden beautifully with them but it was we made it like we had left very early to arrive at rehearsal we arrived I think exactly one minute late wow um everyone was so impressed but like you're you're both thinking like oh we're one minute late yeah oh no we were absolutely panicking it was not the grounded start I was expecting I walked in breathing harder than I breathe at rest.

[24:06] Lizzie Hagstedt: I will say after having been in San Diego and San Francisco San Diego had the steepest hills I have ever walked in oh really ever like in the area where the theater was oh but it's like it's a gorgeous like beautiful what a gorgeous place to be like and it's easy to drive to anywhere like you can drive to the beach you can drive to Mexico you can drive to the woods, you can drive to the desert.

[24:32] Robby Sandler: It's like you can just get anywhere.

[24:36] Lizzie Hagstedt: But yeah, that was we we got to do a reading there in J well, it was technically in June and July.

[24:44] Robby Sandler: There was a month, yeah.

[24:45] Lizzie Hagstedt: Is that the first time you were you worked with children in the piece, or what March?

[24:50] Robby Sandler: In March, we got to work with children, and some of the children got to come with us and do the next round as well.

[24:59] Lizzie Hagstedt: Okay.

[25:00] Robby Sandler: Um, and then we moved I think actually a yeah, a lot of them did, and then we've moved a couple of them around, and then like um and the fact is now this New York concert is gonna have several of the folks who got to do it in San Diego, including one actor who was also the producer at J Fest, who was leading it on that side.

[25:24] Lizzie Hagstedt: Uh she is going to have been the witch in three readings across two posts.

[25:31] Robby Sandler: That's very cool.

[25:32] Lizzie Hagstedt: Well, and it's great too because they've already they already know it, it's in their bodies, it's in their minds, it's like it's in their hearts, really, too.

[25:38] Robby Sandler: That's nice.

[25:40] Lizzie Hagstedt: No, we're gonna have be going into this with I think three returning actors from San Diego.

[25:47] Robby Sandler: It was gonna well, yeah.

[25:48] Lizzie Hagstedt: Um, and one of them is in a different role, but um, she's she got to do that whole process, and then our lead kid from San Diego is coming over, and we're amazing re which is such a blessing.

[26:04] Robby Sandler: Like truly, I crushed it, and I'm feel free to Google Ava Madison Gray.

[26:10] Lizzie Hagstedt: Um, okay, she was covering uh Mary in the secret garden that they just did out in the Amundse.

[26:18] Robby Sandler: Oh, yes, no, she was the alternate.

[26:19] Lizzie Hagstedt: She did get to go on a bunch of times Mary.

[26:22] Robby Sandler: Um, and then um she's uh she's doing a staged version of number the stars right now, playing the lead annalise and she's who is not Jewish in that show.

[26:36] Lizzie Hagstedt: And then she's going to come and be the most Jewish in ours.

[26:40] Robby Sandler: That's awesome.

[26:41] Lizzie Hagstedt: Can I ask a question about the inspiration for the music itself?

[26:46] Robby Sandler: Because you had mentioned that you were kind of l wanting actual Jewish songs to kind of be in it, maybe, or is it just an inspiration, or are these completely these are all original songs.

[27:00] Lizzie Hagstedt: Okay.

[27:01] Lizzie Hagstedt: Um that have a kind of um Jewish folk feel to them, would be my descriptor.

[27:11] Robby Sandler: Sure.

[27:12] Lizzie Hagstedt: Um, I would ask Lizzie, based on what Pamela's asking, can you talk a little more about the blessing and how that landed on people?

[27:22] Lizzie Hagstedt: Because I remember a pretty animated talk about you consciously using different music for the Sabbath blessing than people sing at home.

[27:32] Robby Sandler: There so there is a fairly uniform Shabbos blessing that is done in the home, and uh a lot of people know it, and some people were surprised when I didn't serve that um when we do our Shabbos blessing, but like I I honestly assumed that there was a high probability that it was copyrighted.

[27:53] Lizzie Hagstedt: Right.

[27:53] Robby Sandler: Yeah.

[27:54] Lizzie Hagstedt: And so I tried to in my head, apparently I've been told it's a little more far-fledged from what I but I was like, okay, this is kind of how the shape of that is, so I can honor the shape of it and then like create a a wholly different melody.

[28:12] Robby Sandler: Sure.

[28:13] Lizzie Hagstedt: Um, and that's kind of what it is.

[28:17] Robby Sandler: And um, and yeah, did you have something to add, Robbie?

[28:21] Robby Sandler: No, it's beautiful.

[28:22] Lizzie Hagstedt: That's all I'm saying. I just remember hearing it for the first time and thinking, A, this feels right, and B by having a version of it that you wrote, it allowed us to build it into but Lizzie came up with a really cool idea for how to make that Shabbos blessing a little more dramatic in the show by letting us sort of use it to slow down time and see what's going on in Mirka's head.

[28:48] Robby Sandler: Yeah.

[28:48] Lizzie Hagstedt: Oh yeah, it's like it I always thought of it as the uh the Caroliner change moment when Noah's like thinking about like the money in the in I don't know how specific everyone knows talking about when he's like realizing he left the money in his pants and he's at school and he's like seeing the like the grandparents like talk doing the clock, and like I always thought of it like that.

[29:10] Robby Sandler: I'm like, oh okay, it's the but she's like um thinking about sneaking off to magic school while her mother's at the table doing the blessing, and it kind of goes into this warped time thing where like yeah, okay, she's she's kind of hearing that the real thing in the room, but she's fully thinking about like I want to sneak off and study magic, and that's the main thing you're hearing.

[29:36] Robby Sandler: But you hear that kind of thing in your background where you're like, oh, this is actually what's in the room with me, which is um not w which is not witches, it's the mom. And so connected to this, I have to say, anytime there's a moment in the show where something unique and cool and structural happens because of the music, it was 95 times out of a hundred Lizzie's idea first. Because she can there come points in our talks when she'll just be like she'll stop talking and I'll be like, oh, you're thinking in music. Why don't I give you five minutes and then I'll hear what you're thinking and it's unreal.

[30:12] Lizzie Hagstedt: Yeah.

[30:12] Robby Sandler: Why don't I give you five minutes and then I'll hear what you're thinking and it's unreal. That's awesome. But like watching her disappear and then come back and being like, How about this? And you're like, oh, oh my god. I live for those moments. I a Lizzie demo day. It's my favorite day because I get to hear a choir of seven Lizzys singing the song. So I I mean, I uh I guess it's a good moment to confess, which is that I've been making cast albums by myself since I was like uh in my teens. It was one of the things I loved to do. And I would find a show, I would get the vocal selections, and I would listen to the cast album, and I had a synthesizer, and I would kind of be like, Okay, I hear clarinet in the cast recording here, I'm gonna add it.

I hear cello here, I'm gonna add it. And I had a small cassette recorder, which will let me have three additional tracks, and I would record and layer my voice, and I would like go through the whole cast album that way. And then it wouldn't give to have just that kind of level of talent where where music is concerned.

[31:27] Lizzie Hagstedt: That's really amazing.

[31:28] Robby Sandler: Yeah, but now I do it on my own stuff, which is like um it's one of my favorite parts of and it also like helps because like I can write something at a piano, but then putting it on your voice, yeah, oftentimes you can find like oh this is not very easy to sing, but if I move this high note from this syllable to that syllable, then it's this vowel and it's umpteen, it's the same note, and we're still getting that satisfaction of like, oh, we're on a big note, but it's easier to sing, and like, okay, or like there's nowhere to breathe. Maybe I should maybe I should change this. I'm like, oh great. I um and it's and especially with harmonies. I'll write a harmony and I'll try and sing, and I'm like, I can't sing this.

Why am I created? I'm like, okay, what would make it easier to sing? I'm like, or okay, what am I intuitively singing? And then I can renotate and be like, okay, great. Um that is easier to sing. Um I I used quotation marks for the for the if you obviously, yes. I fully did quotation marks. Um, but like I find that like a very valuable part of my process where at least I could be like, okay, this feels like the the more intuitive vocal performance version of this song, and I can change it.

[33:01] Lizzie Hagstedt: That's amazing.

[33:05] Robby Sandler: Yeah. So um I can you all talk a little bit about how you got to the two uh workshops that you had in California and then how the one that you had uh that you're having here in November developed?

[33:22] Lizzie Hagstedt: Um let's let's talk about uh I can talk about the one in November more easy.

[33:28] Robby Sandler: Okay, um actually so in November what is happening is this convention it's called we're the juice J I hate spelling things J-E-W-C-E. Did I do it right?

[33:46] Lizzie Hagstedt: Yeah, I said for the Jewish comic experience.

[33:49] Robby Sandler: It's Jewish comic experience and Barry Deutsch, who is the author of our graph of the graphic novel the the books or uh our musical is based on is be is a presenting there and B nominated for I think a couple awards Juicy Award or two for for Hereville. Um and so Barry mentioned to them that um this musical existed and they got very excited and like well we have to do something with that. So they asked us to come in and do a presentation there, and so that's like how this happened.

[34:33] Lizzie Hagstedt: Yeah.

[34:33] Robby Sandler: So cool. I do have to share though, the timing of it was overwhelming because we were in La Jolla in June working on this at the old globe, but the rehearsals were in the afternoon. So during the day, we would do things around there, like we went to the San Diego Zoo. But then we were asked to take a call on Zoom, and we did over lunch at the zoo. It was a zoozo zoom. Um and suddenly we were talking with we had only seen her name and it was Dr. Miriam Mora. And I was like, Oh, you fancy. But then we got on the phone, and she was also like just the coolest. And she's the sort of woman whose interests and degree would lead her to creating the first ever Jewish Comic Con.

[35:27] Lizzie Hagstedt: Oh wow.

[35:28] Robby Sandler: Amazing. And they offered us one of the greatest gifts anyone could have given, which is resources.

[35:38] Lizzie Hagstedt: Yes.

[35:38] Robby Sandler: Yeah. Truly. It's true. Yeah. Well, they said, rehearse it here. Perform it here. We have lavalier mics. We'll get the grand piano tuned. Of course we can film it with three pan and zoom cameras.

[35:53] Lizzie Hagstedt: Oh man.

[35:55] Robby Sandler: And wait for it. They care greatly about accessibility. And so in addition to it being a $15 ticket so that a family of four could go for $60. Yeah. It's also a free or pay what you can live stream so that anyone who wants to can. Not even with a credit card. You can just click pay what you can. And if you choose zero, they're like, great, give us your email. Here's the link.

[36:28] Lizzie Hagstedt: That's amazing.

[36:29] Robby Sandler: Yeah. Well, I'm excited about that because that means that I can see it.

[36:32] Lizzie Hagstedt: Yeah.

[36:33] Robby Sandler: And it means you can see paying stalking feet.

[36:36] Lizzie Hagstedt: Yeah. Um, I I got to hear an iteration of the show in October 2018, I think it was. When I just went, but I well, I attended.

[36:52] Robby Sandler: You read the stage directions.

[36:53] Lizzie Hagstedt: Well, but it was before that because it was uh I went over to your place.

[36:59] Robby Sandler: And we didn't were at the one at my place.

[37:01] Lizzie Hagstedt: No, no, I went to I went to Robbie's apartment and we sat and we listened through because I hadn't heard any of it yet. Uh-huh. We just sat and listened through, and I fell in love with the music and the show. I was like, this thing is so gorgeous. Then after that, I got to go to the reading and read the direction the stage direction.

[37:23] Robby Sandler: That was the one at Playwrights Horizons, right?

[37:25] Lizzie Hagstedt: Correct.

[37:25] Robby Sandler: Yes. Was that also 2018 or that was 2018?

[37:29] Lizzie Hagstedt: That was 19.

[37:30] Robby Sandler: Okay. Yeah, it was late enough in 2019 that we were starting to think things like, ooh, 2020 is gonna be our year.

[37:40] Lizzie Hagstedt: Oh, so many people thought that for Harry Potter.

[37:44] Robby Sandler: It's gonna be my year.

[37:49] Lizzie Hagstedt: That's actually a preview from our next show.

[37:51] Robby Sandler: Oh yeah. Sorry, you're asking a very good question, which is um how much has the show changed from that iteration to the more contemporary? So I can tell you at least that well, I don't honestly remember how long the show was at that point. Um but um we I know from that point there are at least two new songs. I don't think we had I don't think we had crunchy part.

[38:19] Lizzie Hagstedt: No, no, wait, no, I think crunchy part was that it's the very first time at Playwright's Horizons.

[38:25] Robby Sandler: Okay, no, that's right, that's right, that's right. A song title that no one knows what it's about, but I pre it's about processing grief, identifying as Jewish, and eating crunchy topped desserts.

[38:40] Lizzie Hagstedt: Yes.

[38:41] Robby Sandler: I promise you, in the context of the show, it's the only thing anyone could possibly sing about at that moment. But then I I genuinely don't even remember what we had if we even had a a slot where we have sometimes you miss. I don't think we had something.

[38:57] Lizzie Hagstedt: No, we did not.

[39:00] Robby Sandler: We had just cut us on that song. Um, because it had been a song about knitting, but then we realized that we talked a lot about knitting in this show, but you can't actually knit on the Sabbath. And so um, yeah, because tying knots is technically work.

[39:17] Lizzie Hagstedt: That's right.

[39:18] Robby Sandler: Um so we went back and revised, which was also technically work. Um not even technically, but I think predominantly like honestly, having the ability to have this like set of readings in California and the prep for those was like a huge um jump starter as far as like and like a fire under our butts to like make the show as tight and as and as um uh and really look at every piece of it and try to make it the best version of it that we could. And so we really put everything under a microscope. So while actually like I don't think we have substantially changed this the structure of the show since 2019, it's leaner, it's um I think we're more um maybe you jump in, Robbie.

[40:22] Lizzie Hagstedt: You look at the I can say it in numbers because it's exciting. When we took it out for that first read-through in March that led to the J Fest readings that were more public. We came in with a script that was about 134 pages and a score that ran about 70 minutes. Is that right, Lizzie? If something like that then I'm believing you that you're that you're looking at it because I could find it. But 133 pages in March when we walked in, we cut it to 114 in the week leading up to the reading in March.

[41:02] Robby Sandler: Okay.

[41:03] Lizzie Hagstedt: We have continued to cut. So this year it went from 133 pages in March to 88 pages in October.

[41:13] Robby Sandler: Which which is without cutting a single song and we made a lot of interior cuts to like make it um move more um, I don't know. I don't want to say like more. And a lot of it didn't feel like excess when we were writing it, but the fact is having a director and actors is absolutely magical.

[41:52] Lizzie Hagstedt: Absolutely.

[41:53] Robby Sandler: Because Laura Brandell came in and talked folks through this story and let them play and showed us how many moments we were actually landing the point in three lines with intelligent actors rather than six lines because I wanted to make sure everybody understood everything.

[42:16] Lizzie Hagstedt: Right.

[42:16] Robby Sandler: Yeah. So important to bring in an a director at a at the development stage. And that's another thing we notice doesn't always happen with the shows that we talk about.

[42:28] Lizzie Hagstedt: Oh, really?

[42:29] Robby Sandler: Yes. I don't know if you knew this. There's a lot of ego involved in writing and producing shows.

[42:37] Lizzie Hagstedt: Ego.

[42:45] Robby Sandler: I'm sorry. Can you use it in a sentence?

[42:50] Lizzie Hagstedt: It's it's the audacity of that man to come into my rehearsal and use his ego to upset my entire production process.

[42:59] Robby Sandler: I mean, I I think there's always a delicate balance of like trusting your instinct and maybe trying to fight for something, but also like if you're not trust like trusting the eyes of your collaborators, you probably have the wrong collaborators.

[43:16] Lizzie Hagstedt: That's right.

[43:17] Robby Sandler: So like if you're not if people in the room, especially if it's like especially if it's everyone in the room, and you're still like, no, I will not cut this vamp. It is very critical to launch the next section, and I won't even hear it without it. It's like it's like, no, like this vamp. That's like I'm like, this vamp is utterly necessary. I need it, I need it, I need it to I need it to sleep at night. I need to do it. No, to be clear, Lizzie is referencing actual moments we've had at least four times.

[43:51] Lizzie Hagstedt: No, no, I'm I'm like, but it was with one song, it just had a lot of amps in it. There's a I mean, I will say, like, I did have a vamp at the top of a song that I was really loath to cut, despite the fact that I had no idea what I kept looking at them to try to stage them like, I don't know what they're gonna do with this, but I don't know how to get rid of it.

[44:10] Robby Sandler: And I was funny like, you know what? Yeah, let's just let it go. Say goodbye. I have it in my pocket if it if we need it when we're actually like because I will say, like, the one thing like a reading versus a staging doesn't fully get you is the sense of movement of the piece. So like there might be stuff that we have cut that could be very functional in an actual like stage production where like we need to move a house on or we need to move a house off, or so let's let's use one more verse of that song that we cut that would have been a great transition. I have actually done a new work before. This was when I was living back in Chicago, so more than 20 years ago, and none of that kind of filler music was written at all.

But during the week of tech, when we were putting everything on its bodies and on its, you know, on its feet, then the composer was able to say, Okay, I'm gonna I'm gonna do this here, and uh I'm gonna add a descant there, and I'm gonna like and all of that stuff could could be added because everyone was working in collaboration with each other, including actors who were on stage, the director who was watching it, who you know, whoever had creative input was able to do that.

[45:25] Lizzie Hagstedt: Actors doing that kind of developmental work in the room is the reason they should be getting paid for developmental work.

[45:34] Robby Sandler: Absolutely. Absolutely. In these scenarios, yes. Once the show, you know, and I will even say, like, in the first iteration of a musical or play, they should get that. You know, obviously, once the show is up and running and you're getting new cast members in, then yes, you can relax that a little bit. But you're absolutely right. Everyone plays such a massive part in putting the show all together. And so the idea that we are giving credit to some people but not to others is a leave to Chris.

[46:05] Lizzie Hagstedt: No, I got to do a lab production right where they negotiated the um the actors getting a cut, um, which was an amazing thing. I think I get like I think it's like I I don't even think it's one percent. I think it's 0.01% if the show ever comes back. And regardless of whether I'm in it, um, which I don't think it will, and I don't think I will. But I'm like, you know what? That is very cool.

[46:36] Robby Sandler: It is cool. Like, and I think that it's important that that happened. Because it is true, like you do change sh because sometimes I I love when an actor tells me, like, okay, I mean, I guess for me, it would probably be more like, hey, um, this is like really hard for me to sing. Can we fit play with that? I'm like, great, let's do it. What would be what like let's what is what what do you or even like what do you intuitively want to sing there? Like, or based on like if you've sung it a couple of times, I can kind of trust like I'm like, okay, I'm not gonna take that directly, but like yeah, um, I can take inspiration, like you always take inspiration from your actors.

[47:21] Lizzie Hagstedt: Sure. Or doing it here. Because they're there people have all different kinds of experiences that they're bringing to this one project. So the idea that we would all just come across the exact same idea of doing something is so silly to me. Like, of course, that's not gonna happen because my lived experience is different from that person's lived experience, which is different from that person's lived experience, and we're all gonna be taking that to what we are doing on stage.

[47:49] Robby Sandler: I've actually lived your entire life, so tell you that's not true. No, I'm I'm so sorry. Um I will say though, within this process, one of the things that Lizzie has always said is that you always start songs and you're like, This is the beginning of a conversation.

[48:09] Lizzie Hagstedt: Yeah, and that is language I get a lot when you have a new thing. You're like, it's a conversation starter. How do we feel about this? Well, and I think like I I like to I like to give my collaborators the full bells and whistles version of a song right off the bat so that I can't hide. I'm like, this is the full Broadway cast recording, it's all me, but like this is the full Broadway cast recording version of this song. Here it is. If it's not serving you the fantasy, I need to know. And I wanna because like I have given no excuse for it to be like, oh well, so you you don't know that there's a bass line here, and that's really or you don't hear the drums. I'm sorry, like uh it's swell with drums, it's swell with drums, or like, oh, there's another vocalist here.

Like you that that's really gonna take like no. I I mean, and I think that that's not something most people do, but it's how my brain works, and I'm like, I like not having the ability to hide behind like a lack.

[49:18] Robby Sandler: Yeah, or being because then I could because then I can justify it to myself not making a change. But if like I have served you the full fantasy version of the song and it's not doing the thing, um, then I didn't then it should change.

[49:33] Lizzie Hagstedt: Sure. That's great. Like I like I I will probably go through everything in the next week and change it again. But I have to tell you, every time a new full fantasy arrives in my inbox when I get to hear it, and I I can't speak for everyone's experience, but oh boy, I grew up on musical theater cast albums more than I grew up on going to see musicals.

[50:01] Robby Sandler: Oh, cast albums are distinctly cheaper and more readily available. Um and some of us were quite a slog from home to Broadway, like a three-hour flight. So when I get there, or if that I well, congrats on having a car that could survive a 15-hour drive. Pam.

[50:24] Lizzie Hagstedt: I'm sorry, I'm from Long Island. That was easy for me. Uh it's just like a car and they would take me directly there.

[50:34] Robby Sandler: Oh, please. They had a house. I'm one of those corn fed ladies from the Midwest. I was like, Taxi, can you take me straight to Broadway? Thank you.

[50:46] Lizzie Hagstedt: And I bet you didn't even know there was a Broadway in Massapequa.

[50:52] Robby Sandler: There is. I know there is. I I know now. There's gotta be. I don't know that there is, but there's gotta be a Broadway and Massapequa.

[51:00] Lizzie Hagstedt: So you hear these voices. This is what Lizzie and I sound like at 12 at night when we have a conversation that's half us being friends, and then it accidentally turns into work and then back into friends.

[51:14] Robby Sandler: Wait, okay, Lizzie, can I share the dumbest thing on a podcast? During these late night talks, sometimes I will tell Lizzie that I have been recording our late night talks and turning them into a podcast, but I'm not gonna reveal it to her because I don't want her to find out how famous we are. And so I keep telling that so that she never knows if I'm telling the truth or not. But maybe that's how we're guests on this podcast.

[51:45] Lizzie Hagstedt: So this is a really meta moment on our podcast.

[51:49] Robby Sandler: Oh, so I've gotta say though, as we talk about all of this, like this was a really meta moment, but we have very, very intentionally written a not at all meta show.

[52:01] Lizzie Hagstedt: Yeah.

[52:02] Robby Sandler: Because Robbie's it's very hard for Robbie. Robbie would I look, I don't want to write meta shows. I want to write shows that can stand in the canon of musical theater and sit a little bit outside of time because things like Wicked and The Lion King that are there forever, they're not tied to a time to a place to a particular level of technology.

[52:30] Lizzie Hagstedt: Yeah, and musicals take so long, yeah.

[52:34] Robby Sandler: And so writing something that takes place in a community that observes a technology-free Sabbath frees us from time.

[52:42] Lizzie Hagstedt: It is true. Like it's we've had people I at least I've been asked, Robbie, like a couple of times, like when does her show take place? And I'm like, I mean, it's kind of the 90s, but it's super doesn't it doesn't matter. There's not really anything that would tell you that it could be the nineties, it could be the eighties, it could be now, but because of the lack of technology in this world, like you you can't tell.

[53:10] Robby Sandler: Yeah. The setting in the at the top of the script it says Hereville is a small town of Orthodox Jews in the suburban northeastern US, mid-90s, but it's hard to tell in a community this insular.

[53:23] Lizzie Hagstedt: Sure. That's good. Well, can I oh can I ask you? Because I was thinking this earlier, and I'm gonna switch it back to just a little bit more about the graphic novel itself.

[53:32] Robby Sandler: Oh, yes.

[53:32] Lizzie Hagstedt: You said that when you had purchased them, it was just the first two. Does that mean that the musical is based on just the first two?

[53:40] Robby Sandler: Okay. I would like to share with you one of the greatest and most generous moments I have ever had with another artist. And that is, I said to Barry, I want to adapt these books. And he said, Did you know there's a third one coming out? And I said, No, I didn't. And he said, There is, let me send you the draft of where we are now.

[54:07] Lizzie Hagstedt: Oh my god, that's amazing.

[54:09] Robby Sandler: I got to read the third book before it was out. I felt like like I got the seventh Harry Potter manuscript. And it's and it's really cool. Like, like so it's only partially uh it's ever called I think it's almost completely illustrated, but it's partially colored.

[54:25] Lizzie Hagstedt: Yeah, the first half is still is colored and inked.

[54:30] Robby Sandler: Yeah. But by the end, it's pencil.

[54:33] Lizzie Hagstedt: Yeah, it's all pencil drawings.

[54:34] Robby Sandler: So it's really cool. Did Barry do the the actual illustration as well as the book?

[54:41] Lizzie Hagstedt: Oh. Barry wrote all of the text. He draws all of the characters. One of the things that I learned is that once he hit the third book, they wanted it to come out sooner. And so they have someone else working with him on some of the backgrounds.

[54:55] Robby Sandler: Oh, interesting.

[54:56] Lizzie Hagstedt: Saw that on his website. There was another name listed.

[54:59] Robby Sandler: Yeah. I'm literally looking at my text because it matters to me in this moment.

[55:04] Lizzie Hagstedt: Adrian Wallace.

[55:06] Robby Sandler: The backgrounds in the third book were Adrian Wallace. Shout out to Adrian Wallace.

[55:12] Lizzie Hagstedt: That's awesome. Is it I I want to ask a question about that just because I remembered you were also uh trying to get the rights for the illustrations.

[55:23] Robby Sandler: We did. I feel like you said you did, and he and he said you could use them like because you were thinking about, and who knows if this is how it'll work out, but thinking about using them as sort of backdrops and integrated into the set and the production design, right?

[55:38] Lizzie Hagstedt: Yes. Which we're getting to tread a little bit into that for this upcoming presentation because especially because of the venue, given that we are part of what is essentially a well, not even essentially, is a celebration of like Jewish comic book artists. We wanted to try and find a way to um display Barry's art as part of the presentation. So we will be showing relevant slides and using um uh relevant panels from the book as as backgrounds. We're gonna s sometimes it's just a pencil drawing of a set which is kind of cool like the pencil drawing of the kitchen the pencil drawing of the witch's house but like um it's that is gonna be integrated with our presentation to like really let the world and let it be Barry's world as well as our musical world because when we originally got the rights I was like hey if we're getting the rights to a graphic novel as opposed to a novel I want to make sure we have express permission to use the art both in the advertising and in the scenic design if that makes sense because yeah why would we why wouldn't we want to draw people back to his art back to what he made get kids to see the musical and then say oh there are books and read the books that exist and hey if this became a thing where more people read the books I can say I know for sure that he has ideas to go further and I would love to see that come into fruition as well because some of the ideas he's talked us through are thrilling.

[57:27] Robby Sandler: We can like totally I was like we could totally Annie Warbucks back you should call it their film or then I so okay I will say you know that wonderful set of stories about how they only told uh oh my god, what's his name? Who played Snape and Harry Potter and Alan Rickman you Alan Rickman, that name disappeared. No, you're not gonna you're not actually gonna say the thing, right?

[57:57] Lizzie Hagstedt: No, no, no, I'm not. I'm gonna say we all know that Alan Rickman was told secrets about Snape that no one on set was told so that he could create a realistic performance.

[58:07] Robby Sandler: Yeah. And I will say at least one major decision we made in this book, we or in the book of the musical. We are cognizant of a thing Barry said would happen in book six if he wrote a second trilogy.

[58:26] Lizzie Hagstedt: Oh, very cool.

[58:27] Robby Sandler: And so I I can never say what it was.

[58:31] Lizzie Hagstedt: No, and we wouldn't ask you because that's part of the fun of it, right?

[58:35] Robby Sandler: Well, okay, but if that book does come out at some point, then I can tell you here's a thing I've known since 2000. I hope everyone on the podcast could hear that year accurately.

[58:50] Robby Sandler: So besides the permissions that he's given you, has Barry had any kind of an input into your writing process?

[58:58] Lizzie Hagstedt: Yeah, we regularly send him drafts and he does comment on them.

[59:06] Robby Sandler: Yeah, he finally got to see the show for the first time. He came to the Old Globe and got to see the show in San Diego and also did this amazing thing. He made each of our cast members a custom picture of their character, like a poster size with their name on it and a little quote.

[59:30] Lizzie Hagstedt: So cool, like it was amazing.

[59:34] Robby Sandler: And if anyone wants to know exactly what those drawings look like, they are on our Instagram at Hereville Musical, which is spelled exactly like you think.

[59:46] Lizzie Hagstedt: I am channeling my inner Raven the Drag Queen, and I will win this book interview challenge.

[59:53] Robby Sandler: But I feel like I did my weird noise like right over the name of the Instagram.

[59:57] Lizzie Hagstedt: So maybe do it.

[59:58] Robby Sandler: You made a weird noise over me saying at Hereville Musical on Instagram.

[1:00:04] Lizzie Hagstedt: How will people know how to go to at Hereville Musical on Instagram?

[1:00:08] Robby Sandler: They'll have to find out about it at the concert at the Center for Jewish History on November 9th at 6:30 p.m. or via the live stream.

[1:00:16] Lizzie Hagstedt: How did we get through 75 minutes without ever discussing the story of the show?

[1:00:22] Robby Sandler: Okay, because we're good at that.

[1:00:24] Lizzie Hagstedt: Please do.

[1:00:25] Robby Sandler: And I guess tell how much you want to, because I don't know how much you want to reveal to like sort of leave.

[1:00:25] Lizzie Hagstedt: Yeah, we don't need any spoilers. Like you want people to come see it.

[1:00:37] Robby Sandler: Yeah, well, like there are things I can say, like I know for a fact that even if you have read all three books, you will not get ahead of the story because we were able to build a story that is deeply inspired by, but ultimately structured a little bit differently. And spends a little more time with the witch who is in all three books.

[1:01:01] Lizzie Hagstedt: So yeah, you might be able to guess, or you might be like, oh, I bet they're gonna do this here.

[1:01:05] Robby Sandler: Yeah, like it's gonna be much more like that than like, oh, I know this is where this happens.

[1:01:11] Lizzie Hagstedt: Okay, okay.

[1:01:12] Robby Sandler: Like, but like there's a meteor on the cover of the second book.

[1:01:16] Lizzie Hagstedt: Right.

[1:01:16] Robby Sandler: Spoiler. There will be a meteor in the musical.

[1:01:20] Lizzie Hagstedt: I actually I feel like that section is maybe the oh, now I'm thinking is probably the most faithful that we oh yes, I like the there is a number that is in the middle of the show, but it would be a combination act to act one finale, act two opener if you were thinking structurally, and it is almost the entire second book told in nine really intense minutes that work well because you've already met all the characters.

[1:01:54] Lizzie Hagstedt: So can you can you take us through as much as you feel comfortable of the story for especially people who haven't read the graphic novels?

[1:02:04] Robby Sandler: I will, and I will begin by saying we live in a world where the movie Beaches exists, and I bring this up to say for years, people told me that Beaches was just the saddest movie. They always cried at Beaches, and then I watched it and I realized that everyone left out all the weird musical numbers and the things that are over the top, ridiculous, funny that aren't just two people smiling and clutching each other and acknowledging a deep relationship.

[1:02:36] Lizzie Hagstedt: And so I will say, if I throw out a sentence like this is a musical about a stepdaughter and a stepmother in an Orthodox Jewish community finding out how to love each other, and that this is a non-romantic love story between those two women.

[1:02:56] Robby Sandler: Yeah, you are prepared for Beaches the way that I was prepared for Beaches.

[1:03:01] Lizzie Hagstedt: And so the thing that I need to start warning people is that there is a witch, there is magic, there is a sentient meteorite who begins as a feral creature, but is ultimately much, much, much smarter than that.

[1:03:17] Robby Sandler: We will make our way to outer space at some point. Maybe someone will turn into a tree. We'll find out.

[1:03:25] Lizzie Hagstedt: And so I think if you've heard all of those things and you're interested and can't imagine how they all go together, this is a show for you.

[1:03:35] Robby Sandler: That's awesome.

[1:03:36] Lizzie Hagstedt: And if you're just someone who has your own complicated mom stuff and wants a safe place where everyone will think you're crying about the show, but you're really crying about your own complicated mom stuff. I assure you.

[1:03:51] Robby Sandler: We have so much space for you to let those tears out.

[1:03:55] Lizzie Hagstedt: Let us tears out. But like I'm gonna say, it is a very Jewish musical. And if there's anything I know from the Jewish community that I've grown up in, it's that almost everything is funny until there's a moment when it isn't, but we do get back to funny eventually.

[1:04:13] Robby Sandler: Well, that's life too, kind of truly, and that's why I remember hearing stories like when they brought Fiddler to Japan and Japanese people were like, really, this is about Jews, but their values are so Japanese. And like yeah, the more specific you get about any culture, the more you find out that we're all kind of doing the same thing, trying to make good food and take care of each other and find more reasons to laugh than cry.

[1:04:41] Lizzie Hagstedt: Absolutely.

[1:04:41] Robby Sandler: Well, and it all it regardless of what your culture is, what your religion is, what your nationality is, all of us have relationships with other people around us, and those relationships are all very, very similar to other people's relationships with other people.

[1:04:57] Lizzie Hagstedt: Yes.

[1:04:58] Robby Sandler: What I will say, because this part sparked my interest right at the very beginning of the podcast, you had just mentioned briefly that the lead character, and I'm Miraka, is that her?

[1:05:08] Lizzie Hagstedt: Okay.

[1:05:09] Robby Sandler: Mirka.

[1:05:09] Lizzie Hagstedt: Mirka, who is 11 years old, has lost her own mother and is now has a stepmother in the scenario who grew up differently than she did. So there is kind of a bridge the gap kind of relationship happening with them.

[1:05:25] Robby Sandler: What sparked me was the fact that she is 11 years old, and in every girl's life, when they are 11 years old, and this can run the gamut of girls if you are seen assigned female at birth or otherwise.

[1:05:41] Lizzie Hagstedt: Well, and you know what? Really, I can really involve everybody in this because at 11 years old, you are changing from a child into something different, and it is such a weird, horrible and magical time for every single person.

[1:05:58] Robby Sandler: And so having that also be the time where you have lost the maternal impulse in your life and are then kind of given another one. It's just such a like I can't imagine how confusing that must have been for her.

[1:06:14] Lizzie Hagstedt: And so this idea that she is able to kind of be this superhero of her own story is really, really cool and captivating.

[1:06:23] Robby Sandler: And I will say, tying to that very real set of mom stuff.

[1:06:28] Lizzie Hagstedt: Yeah.

[1:06:29] Robby Sandler: When the person who has entered your life is trying to take that maternal impulse and they're not hitting it the way you want. Yeah, boy, it's really easy to start saying yes to offers that sound easier from bad actors.

[1:06:47] Lizzie Hagstedt: Yeah.

[1:06:48] Robby Sandler: And I've always said like yes this is a comedy. Yes, this is a musical, but we talk about gaslighting and grief without saying the word gaslighting. Because that in the crunchy parts gaslighting.

[1:07:04] Lizzie Hagstedt: I think that people will see a relationship that reveals itself to be manipulative in a way that kids will understand and parents might understand a few seconds before their kids.

[1:07:20] Robby Sandler: Yeah.

[1:07:22] Lizzie Hagstedt: Wow that sounds really intriguing. I like that. I'm excited about this.

[1:07:25] Robby Sandler: I'm excited to be able to get to see it.

[1:07:28] Lizzie Hagstedt: Thank you and same honestly. Yeah this is our first time doing any public presentation of the show in New York.

[1:07:40] Robby Sandler: Yeah.

[1:07:40] Lizzie Hagstedt: Which is really exciting. Like we've done little private presentations in like tiny studios where like maybe a couple people could come but actually the several of them were like actually no one but the cast could come like they were that small.

[1:07:57] Robby Sandler: Yeah, and we did our you know our requisite like Zoom reading which was like everyone read the lines and we played my cast album of Mies because you can't sing on Zoom.

[1:07:57] Lizzie Hagstedt: You can't sing on Zoom thing to sing on Zoom with wait you can sing together on Zoom.

[1:08:20] Robby Sandler: Um, but you know, like we did one of those, but like this is our first time actually where there will be able to be an audience and they'll be able to hear it. Like, that's really really exciting.

[1:08:29] Lizzie Hagstedt: And this is the first time with the graphics too, right?

[1:08:33] Robby Sandler: Yeah, we actually weren't able to do that in California. So we're just adding that for this presentation, and that's also very exciting.

[1:08:44] Lizzie Hagstedt: Um, and um getting this live the live stream is exciting. I mean, for what I'm going to say is I can't speak for Lizzie, but it is the first paid public performance of a musical I have written in New York City. That is a full performance of the show.

[1:09:04] Lizzie Hagstedt: Can you say the same?

[1:09:08] Robby Sandler: I don't think I can, but I'm not sure.

[1:09:11] Lizzie Hagstedt: Oh no, you know what? I bought a ticket to your reading at Nymph.

[1:09:15] Robby Sandler: I that's what I thought. I'm like, I think that may have been paid, but I don't know.

[1:09:18] Lizzie Hagstedt: It may have been paid, but this is definitely the highest tech version of something like this that I've ever had happen. And the idea that Miriam Mora and the Center for Jewish history just said, yes, you can have the space, including the rehearsal space, including a tech team.

[1:09:36] Robby Sandler: Oh my god. You are all really incredibly like everyone I the second I got off the line with them, I'm like, I just love all these people.

[1:09:45] Lizzie Hagstedt: Yes.

[1:09:46] Robby Sandler: I was like, I'm the best feeling.

[1:09:48] Lizzie Hagstedt: Yeah.

[1:09:49] Robby Sandler: And also, and I won't dip too deeply into this, but at this particular time, holding a Jewish identity with pride is complicated.

[1:10:03] Lizzie Hagstedt: Yes.

[1:10:04] Robby Sandler: And we believe pretty strongly that Judaism and Israel are separate ideas, that Palestine and Hamas are different ideas. And this is a show that has always been about Jewish family values that take place in a home and is as apolitical as it can be on paper. Though we have learned even at the concert that we had in San Diego at the Old Globe, we were told that there was enhanced security because our show was Jewish.

[1:10:41] Lizzie Hagstedt: What a and that was a stunning thing to hear.

[1:10:47] Robby Sandler: But it also means that sometimes when you put Judaism out there, it is inherently a political act, even if you don't mean for it to be. And so I will say, geez, I want this show to be about family. I want it to be a place where Jewish kids can find Jewish joy. Because this is the musical that I was looking for when I was that age.

[1:11:12] Lizzie Hagstedt: Yes.

[1:11:13] Robby Sandler: It feels like what Robbie said feels like a really good place to end.

[1:11:17] Lizzie Hagstedt: Yeah, I think so.

[1:11:18] Robby Sandler: I think so.

[1:11:19] Lizzie Hagstedt: You killed it, Robbie. You killed it.

[1:11:21] Robby Sandler: Well, I think you really without even saying at Hereville Musical on Instagram again.

[1:11:27] Lizzie Hagstedt: At Hereville Musical at Instagram.

[1:11:29] Robby Sandler: At Here at Instagram.

[1:11:33] Lizzie Hagstedt: Also say again the date and the time.

[1:11:35] Robby Sandler: Oh yeah. Like if you want to join us at the Center for Jewish History on November 9th to see the show at 6:30, or even just live stream it, you can. And the link is in our bio at Hereville Musical.

[1:11:50] Lizzie Hagstedt: How easy is that to find? I bet it'll also show up in like the text for this episode because Theatre Geeks Anonymous is always very clever that way.

[1:11:59] Robby Sandler: And yes, we will absolutely have the Instagram handle and the link for the November 9th concert in the show notes.

[1:12:06] Lizzie Hagstedt: Yeah.

[1:12:07] Robby Sandler: Thank you everyone for listening to this episode of Theatre Geeks Anonymous. We are so excited for Hereville: The Musical, and we absolutely hope that you all tune in. If you are not in the New York area on November 9th, and if you are in the New York area, please go to the Center for Jewish History and buy a ticket.

[1:12:34] Lizzie Hagstedt: It'll be in our link to for tickets will be in our show notes and go see it in person.

[1:12:39] Robby Sandler: 15 West 16th Street.

[1:12:41] Lizzie Hagstedt: 15 West 16th Street.

[1:12:43] Robby Sandler: Yeah, 15, like the number of dollars it costs to see it.

[1:12:47] Lizzie Hagstedt: 16th, like one more dollar, but not.

[1:12:53] Robby Sandler: Take these mics away from us because our podcast, Theatre Geeks Anonymous.

[1:13:03] Lizzie Hagstedt: You can follow us on Instagram and Twitter at T Ga B Way.

[1:13:09] Robby Sandler: And on Facebook at Theatre Geeks Anonymous.

[1:13:12] Lizzie Hagstedt: And if you want to tell us how much you love us, or you have a great story about one of the shows we've talked about, drop us a note at T G A B Way at Gmail.com.

[1:13:25] Robby Sandler: Until next time, Geeks!