This transcript was automatically generated and might contain errors.

[0:00] Harrow Sansom Thesis: Hey queers, welcome back to season three.

[0:03] Meghan: This is episode seven with George Strus, the founding artistic director of the Breaking the Binary Theatre Festival.

[0:17] Harrow Sansom Thesis: Thesis on Joan is a podcast dedicated to amplifying voices from the LGBTQ+ community in the New York performing arts scene and examining the industry from a queer perspective.

[0:28] Meghan: Join us as we sit down with groundbreaking theatre folks, both on stage and behind the curtain.

[0:33] Harrow Sansom Thesis: For many queers, theatre has been an escape, and this podcast looks to have open conversations on where we've come from and where we're headed as a community while queering the canon along the way.

[0:44] Meghan: Hi, Harrow.

[0:46] Harrow Sansom Thesis: Hello.

[0:47] Meghan: We're back.

[0:48] Harrow Sansom Thesis: We had a mini hiatus over the summer.

[0:52] Meghan: It felt like a long time.

[0:53] Harrow Sansom Thesis: I don't know how you feel.

[0:55] Meghan: I think we've gotten into such a good flow of like how we record and edit that we gave ourselves a lot of time at the end, you know.

[1:04] Harrow Sansom Thesis: Yeah.

[1:05] Meghan: We tend to front load things too.

[1:08] Harrow Sansom Thesis: We're getting better at this, y'all.

[1:10] Meghan: Yeah.

[1:12] Harrow Sansom Thesis: At least in our planning and time management.

[1:15] Meghan: Yeah, yeah.

[1:16] Harrow Sansom Thesis: And how was your summer?

[1:19] Meghan: I mean, I know a lot about it, but...

[1:19] Harrow Sansom Thesis: That's true.

[1:22] Meghan: Our summers were... yeah, we spent many times together in the summer.

[1:27] Harrow Sansom Thesis: Um, but yeah, it was awesome. Um, the one thing that we did not do together was my honeymoon. Um, that was... although you would have enjoyed many parts of it.

[1:36] Meghan: Um, that was awesome.

[1:38] Harrow Sansom Thesis: And I went through all your Google folder photos.

[1:42] Meghan: Not... I didn't go through them as meticulously as I wanted, but I'm gonna go back.

[1:47] Harrow Sansom Thesis: How... like, is this like a terrible trait to assume that people just want to look at like 1200 pictures of your vacation?

[1:55] Meghan: I loved it though. I'm like, oh, this is like a choose your own adventure. Like, is there a specific area you're more interested in?

[2:02] Harrow Sansom Thesis: I definitely went to um all the areas that I thought looked like Game of Thrones sets and specifically looked for those photos.

[2:10] Meghan: Yeah, yeah. I tried to break it up with the maps so like people could jump to the location that...

[2:15] Harrow Sansom Thesis: Yeah.

[2:15] Meghan: So if you know you're not feeling Olympia, you can skip it.

[2:19] Harrow Sansom Thesis: Um, yeah, it was awesome. I... it was weird to be in the world like that.

[2:28] Meghan: I mean, you were in Korea as well, so you know I'm just like, it's so far away from the US and thinking a few years ago, I was like, I don't even know if I can ever fly back to like Cleveland, let alone go to Europe.

[2:43] Harrow Sansom Thesis: But yeah. Do you want to name like specifically where you went?

[2:46] Meghan: Yeah, yeah. So we started in... these are all new places I'd never been to. Uh, we started in Rome and we were there for a few days, and then we took a cruise that went to uh Olympia and Corfu in Greece. We went to Dubrovnik in Croatia and Kotor in Montenegro, which were both Game of Thrones filming locations, and uh then we came back to Italy and went to Sicily, but it was an aggressive lightning storm that day, and went to Florence and um Naples.

[3:22] Harrow Sansom Thesis: Yeah, it was a lot, yeah.

[3:25] Meghan: That's so many places in two weeks, right?

[3:28] Harrow Sansom Thesis: It was, yeah, two weeks. So you know, you ever go on one of those vacations where by the end you're like, yeah, it's probably good to come home.

[3:35] Meghan: Yeah.

[3:37] Harrow Sansom Thesis: I mean, all of it was amazing, but we were ready to like just sleep and you know, not... Europe's on fire temperature-wise, so it was really hot, but... and of course I missed Indy.

[3:49] Meghan: Had to come home to the dog.

[3:51] Harrow Sansom Thesis: That was so long.

[3:53] Meghan: Yeah, that was the worst part for me when I was in Korea too, is just missing my dog, Busy.

[3:57] Harrow Sansom Thesis: Yeah, yeah.

[3:58] Meghan: I know she was having fun with the dog sitter and friends, but oof, that was just... yeah, it's a long time.

[4:05] Harrow Sansom Thesis: Yeah.

[4:05] Meghan: Yeah, but the pictures are amazing, and I'm so happy for you and Grace.

[4:08] Harrow Sansom Thesis: Yeah, thanks.

[4:09] Meghan: Yeah, it was super fun. I'm glad we waited too. It was nice to have that to look forward to.

[4:15] Harrow Sansom Thesis: Um, you know, like almost a year.

[4:17] Meghan: Was it on your anniversary?

[4:19] Harrow Sansom Thesis: No.

[4:20] Meghan: No, it wasn't like timed or anything specific except school being off.

[4:24] Harrow Sansom Thesis: Oh, right.

[4:24] Meghan: Oh, right, because you got married in October.

[4:26] Harrow Sansom Thesis: Yeah.

[4:27] Meghan: So we're not quite at a year yet.

[4:28] Harrow Sansom Thesis: We're almost there.

[4:30] Meghan: Yeah.

[4:31] Harrow Sansom Thesis: But yeah, I know you've been really busy this summer too.

[4:35] Meghan: I guess so.

[4:36] Harrow Sansom Thesis: I feel like you're doing so many social things in the city.

[4:40] Meghan: Really?

[4:40] Harrow Sansom Thesis: Yeah.

[4:41] Meghan: Like I'm not doing anything.

[4:43] Harrow Sansom Thesis: Maybe you just have a very interesting Instagram story to me.

[4:46] Meghan: I don't know. I think I do like maybe one thing a week.

[4:50] Harrow Sansom Thesis: Oh.

[4:50] Meghan: And the rest... or I do like puzzles, and maybe that's... maybe that's okay.

[4:55] Harrow Sansom Thesis: You've had a very interesting puzzle summer.

[4:58] Meghan: Yeah, I did. I've done a bunch of puzzles this summer. I have to shout out the Magic Puzzle Company. They make a really cool... yeah, you should try it. It's very fun.

[5:07] Harrow Sansom Thesis: Yeah.

[5:08] Meghan: The big change for me is I changed my name. I came out, I announced my new name in... I think it was in June.

[5:15] Harrow Sansom Thesis: Yes, it was in June 2022.

[5:17] Meghan: Uh, I'm going by Harrow now. Like Sparrow with an H. I'm trying... I'm still like trying to figure out how to tell people what it is because uh it's not a common name, so people hear it and then they're like, "What? What is it?"

[5:31] Harrow Sansom Thesis: Um, but Sparrow with an H seems to be working.

[5:34] Meghan: Yeah.

[5:35] Harrow Sansom Thesis: Um, but yeah, I wanted a name that was like... sounded like it was from a sci-fi series or a fantasy novel, and like I got... I actually first thought of this as a name from a book we read in Queer Book Club, uh Gideon the Ninth, and that's about lesbian necromancers and the love interest in that, their name is Harrow, her name is Harrow.

[5:56] Meghan: And I'm like, that's a cool name.

[5:57] Harrow Sansom Thesis: And I'm trying to find a name that started with H because my old name started with an H, and it's hard to find gender-neutral names with an H. So, uh, that one... I had a whole list of names, but that one was the one that kept sticking out, and I was like trying it with a couple people and another name with another couple people, and this is the one that I really liked.

[6:15] Meghan: And yeah, it's been a really amazing transformation, change, adjustment.

[6:22] Harrow Sansom Thesis: Yeah, I felt so supported and loved from my friends and my work, my co-workers and community, so that's been really great.

[6:29] Meghan: Yeah, so happy for you, friend. It was like the most exciting announcement when... uh, when you... it was funny because we were with another friend who already knew, like you could... I was like, why are they reacting so like straight?

[6:43] Harrow Sansom Thesis: Like felt like something was off, and then like you finally told me, and I was like, "Oh, this is so exciting."

[6:49] Meghan: I felt so bad for them because anytime they were trying to tell a story about something we've done together, and they couldn't like say my name sidestepping it very well.

[7:00] Harrow Sansom Thesis: I could just like see the wheels in their head turning.

[7:03] Meghan: Uh, yeah, so it... and from my partner Lucy too, because yeah, you know, she was juggling like four names, because we also call me Nobi as my parent name.

[7:14] Harrow Sansom Thesis: Right.

[7:14] Meghan: Uh, so she goes between like my old name, Harrow, Nobi, and she'll just call me Babe as like a nickname. So a lot of times things... yeah, things just came out as like Hab.

[7:28] Harrow Sansom Thesis: Hobie.

[7:30] Meghan: Yeah, some syllables put together.

[7:33] Harrow Sansom Thesis: Yeah.

[7:33] Meghan: Oh, that's awesome though. And it's like just such a cool name.

[7:37] Harrow Sansom Thesis: Because like you said that book, um the Gideon the Ninth series. I remember thinking like Harrow was such a badass character.

[7:44] Meghan: And yeah, when you told us, I'm like, oh perfect. So much sense.

[7:49] Harrow Sansom Thesis: I need to read because the second book is all about Harrow and I haven't read it yet.

[7:53] Meghan: So yeah, I feel like you have to now.

[7:56] Harrow Sansom Thesis: Yeah, I'm gonna buy the whole set. I realize the third one is out now, so I need to buy like a nice set of...

[7:58] Meghan: It's already out.

[8:03] Harrow Sansom Thesis: Oh gosh.

[8:04] Meghan: So behind.

[8:04] Harrow Sansom Thesis: And there's... I found there's a restaurant in Midtown named The Harrow.

[8:08] Meghan: So I think...

[8:10] Harrow Sansom Thesis: Oh, cool.

[8:10] Meghan: Yeah, I need to do like a name day celebration at some point and like all of us go to this restaurant.

[8:16] Harrow Sansom Thesis: That's a great idea.

[8:17] Meghan: Hopefully it's a good restaurant.

[8:18] Harrow Sansom Thesis: I hope so.

[8:19] Meghan: It would be disappointing if you went to a restaurant and it was like terrible service.

[8:25] Harrow Sansom Thesis: Like this is not right.

[8:27] Meghan: Oh, that's great though.

[8:28] Harrow Sansom Thesis: Yeah, and I'm glad um you get to share it on the podcast now. It was on our social media, and I know a lot of folks were liking it and excited to see the news.

[8:38] Meghan: So...

[8:39] Harrow Sansom Thesis: No, thank you everyone for their support. It's been... yeah, it's been a really joyous transition.

[8:45] Meghan: Yeah.

[8:46] Harrow Sansom Thesis: And I don't... I... yeah, my summer was fine. I tried to stay indoors in the air conditioning as much as possible.

[8:51] Meghan: Heck yeah.

[8:52] Harrow Sansom Thesis: I did not get my one day at the beach in New York this summer.

[8:56] Meghan: Dang.

[8:57] Harrow Sansom Thesis: But I did go to the beach in Korea, so I'm gonna count that.

[9:00] Meghan: That counts.

[9:01] Harrow Sansom Thesis: Yeah.

[9:01] Meghan: And you had those big uh sand sculptures there.

[9:04] Harrow Sansom Thesis: So that was really cool.

[9:06] Meghan: That was awesome.

[9:07] Harrow Sansom Thesis: But now, you know, as we're moving into our preferred pride time of the year.

[9:12] Meghan: Yes.

[9:13] Harrow Sansom Thesis: October.

[9:16] Meghan: I love fall so much. I just came back from the dog park before this, and it was so lovely. There was the breeze. I didn't get a single bug bite. It was great.

[9:25] Harrow Sansom Thesis: Yeah.

[9:26] Meghan: Ready for it. Bring it on, fall. Happy to have it.

[9:29] Harrow Sansom Thesis: And I want to segue this into an action of the up. I know for me, I feel much more activated in the fall and like ready to like go outside and do things. So I just want to encourage our listeners for this action of the up to sign up to volunteer with a local organization. Some of the places that I've signed up in the past include SAGE, New York City.

[9:51] Meghan: Um, they're supporting LGBTQ+ elders in our area. I signed up right before the pandemic, and one of the cool things I was excited about was like going to um elders' houses or apartments and like, you know, spending time with them and getting like running errands, you know, things they need.

[10:08] Harrow Sansom Thesis: And then the pandemic happened, so I haven't been able to do that at all.

[10:12] Meghan: But hopefully we can get back to it soon. The New York Civil Liberties Union, Nike Clue. Uh, I'm an artist ambassador there, and they have uh lots of different opportunities for you to volunteer. I have signed up for their like housing initiatives and uh working on their SRG campaign to disband the strategic response group of the NYPD, the American Indian Community House.

[10:35] Harrow Sansom Thesis: I actually just signed up to volunteer with them. I'm excited to see what they offer for volunteers.

[10:40] Meghan: And then a volunteer program I actually run is with Theatre of the Oppressed NYC. We're always looking for volunteers to sign up to our mailing list. And you... they mostly help us at our events. So whenever we have shows, we also have our big 10-year anniversary party coming up on October 1st, and we're gonna need a bunch of volunteers for that too.

[11:00] Harrow Sansom Thesis: So if you'd like to come volunteer with us, I would love to meet you and have you there.

[11:04] Meghan: Awesome. Thanks for sharing those, Harrow.

[11:08] Harrow Sansom Thesis: All right, and I think without further ado, we're ready to introduce George.

[11:12] Meghan: We have the founding artistic director of the Breaking the Binary Theatre Festival, George Strus.

[11:18] Harrow Sansom Thesis: And George is a gender-queer Latinx theatre maker living on the unceded ancestral lands of the Muncie Lenape Nation in New York. In addition to their current role as manager of artistic development at Second Stage Theatre, they founded Breaking the Binary Theatre Festival, a developmental hub for transgender, non-binary, and two-spirit plus theatre makers.

[11:39] Meghan: Prior to their positions at Second Stage and Breaking the Binary, they held positions at A3 Artist Agencies, Manhattan Theatre Club, Pride Plays at Rattlestick Playwrights Theater, Playbill, Stacey Mindich Productions, Alchemation, Tulsi and Company Casting, Paper Mill Playhouse, and Broadway Cares Equity Fights AIDS.

[11:57] Harrow Sansom Thesis: Hi, George. We're so excited to have you on Thesis on Joan. Welcome.

[12:01] George Strus: Hi, thank you for having me. I'm so excited to be here.

[12:05] Harrow Sansom Thesis: And we usually start with our guests sharing their names, pronouns, and anything you'd like to share about how you identify.

[12:11] George Strus: Sure. My name is George Strus. My pronouns are they, he, and I am queer both in my sexual and gender identities.

[12:19] Harrow Sansom Thesis: Awesome. And you are also the founding artistic director of the new, the brand new Breaking the Binary Theatre Festival.

[12:27] Meghan: And that's coming in from October 10th through the 16th at Theatre Row. Can you tell us the background of how this festival came to be?

[12:36] George Strus: Yeah, of course. So the seed of the idea started about a year ago, which is crazy for me to think about how this sort of past year has all come together. But I was, you know, even before a year ago, actually, I was at... I was working at A3 Artists Agency as a junior agent in the theatrical literary division.

[12:57] Harrow Sansom Thesis: So I was representing, you know, a number of composers, lyricists, playwrights, directors, essentially anyone on the title page of a playbill that wasn't an actor or producer was someone that I, you know, was looking after.

[13:10] George Strus: And as I was building my roster of artists, and as I was sort of building community there for myself, I realized that a number of my clients, because of my identity, because of the art that excites me, were members of the trans, non-binary, two-spirit plus community.

[13:27] George Strus: And I think because of that, I started getting an influx of emails and submissions from other members of that community seeking representation, which I don't know that I thought too much of at the time, but in looking back, I do think that was some sort of calling for community within the theater industry for that specific group.

[13:47] George Strus: So after leaving the agency job last summer, I started working at Second Stage Theater, where I still work as the manager of artistic development and quickly became intoxicated at the notion of giving an artist resources, giving an artist money, helping them sort of achieve their goals and dreams.

[14:06] George Strus: And a year ago, last fall, as organizations like Sundance Theater Institute started to fold, and the you know, the future of Humana felt unclear, and then the Lark sadly shuddered. It felt like as a theater maker, as a dramaturg, as an administrator, my future started to feel unclear because these tent poles of new play development that I had sort of idolized and wanted to work at and loved had started disappearing, it felt like.

[14:35] George Strus: So I took a step back and I thought about those three things, you know, building community, creating opportunities to develop new work. And that's sort of how the idea came to be.

[14:46] George Strus: So, you know, this October we'll be at Theater Row. Breaking the Binary Theater Festival is really a communal and new play development hub for trans, non-binary, and two spirit plus actors, directors, writers, dramaturgs, and stage managers to all come together and create seven evenings of work completely created by members of that community.

[15:06] Meghan: Amazing.

[15:07] George Strus: A year is fast. I'm impressed with that.

[15:10] Meghan: To get a whole festival up. That's a wonderful.

[15:13] George Strus: It's crazy to think about. I hadn't really thought about that before logging on here, but yeah, it started at the end of August. So it's been a year now, and here we are.

[15:22] Meghan: Yeah.

[15:23] Meghan: You've been doing some work. That's amazing. And you spoke to this a little bit already about the forming of community, but maybe you can tell us from both the artist and the audience perspective. Why do you think it's important? You know, there's so many festivals in this area celebrating LGBTQ, but why is it important to have specifically a space for trans, non-binary, and two spirit plus folks in their work?

[15:49] George Strus: Yeah, I think, and I've spoken with a bunch of the artists that are involved in the festival about this, that you know, we often feel misrepresented in the work that we see ourselves in or we should see ourselves in. And oftentimes there's no presence behind the table coming from our community.

[16:09] George Strus: So it's not written by someone or directed by someone from the TNB2S Plus community. And I think in putting this space together, it was really important to me and to everyone involved that this space was a place for members of our community to reclaim our stories and our artistic license.

[16:37] Meghan: Was so incredible to see.

[17:22] George Strus: And you know, there are one or two positions that for whatever reason we couldn't find someone from the community to actually step in and do, whether it was a capacity issue, whether it was a lack of that person existing in our sort of, you know, spectrum. So for that, you know, we make sure that at least there's a member of the community that is very present in that dialogue at all times to ensure that it's being vetted by someone in the community at all times.

[17:47] Meghan: That's so incredible. There are many aspects of the festival that I was really blown away with, and that is one of them of like the learning experience, making sure it's the whole community of putting this together, is of the community that it's supporting. That's really incredible.

[18:03] Meghan: Speaking of the folks involved, some of the playwrights that you're featuring are actually past guests of Thesis on Joan. And can you tell us about the pieces and the artists that the audiences will be able to see?

[18:13] George Strus: Of course. So we've got seven evenings of work, and they're each entirely different. So I'll try and synthesize them in as much as I can, but I'm very excited about all of them.

[18:24] George Strus: The festival's opening with Ty Defoe's play Trans World, which is the super satirical comedy that sort of spoofs the real world and TV show and imagines what that show would be like if it was seven trans individuals picked to live inside the house. And that opening is really special to us because Ty is a member of our core community advisory board, and it's directed and dramaturged by actually the two artists who helped me co-curate this lineup. So it feels like a really family affair to start off the festival, which I'm really thrilled about.

[18:57] George Strus: The following night on Tuesday, we have a new play by Liliana Padilla, whose play How to Defend Yourself is going up at New York Theater Workshop next year. But this is a different piece called Twitch. Twitch to me is very club thummy, if that resonates. You know, it's very kooky, it's very quirky. It is about this cast of characters that live in a town where one of the characters goes missing. It's pretty wild. I'm very excited about it. It's very different than How to Defend Yourself, which excites me. And Lily is collaborating with Jack Fervor on that, who's directing it, and Desiree S. Mitten, who is dramaturging that piece.

[19:38] George Strus: The following night on Wednesday, we have Roger Kumasin's play Hide and Hide, which is about a Filipino immigrant who comes to the US in the 80s and meets a white gay male rent boy who has escaped from a Christian conversion camp, and it sort of follows their journey together. Roger is someone I have known and loved for so long, so I'm so thrilled that they are a part of this space.

[20:04] Meghan: We love Roger.

[20:05] George Strus: Who doesn't? Everyone loves Roger Q. Mason. How can you not? I think I'm gonna watch Lavender Men after this.

[20:12] Meghan: Perfect.

[20:13] George Strus: Yes, I'm so excited. I have the streaming link in my inbox as well. And they're part they're working with two very frequent collaborators of theirs, E. Boylan, who's directing, and Gavin Trinidad, who's dramaturging that one.

[20:26] George Strus: The fourth piece on Thursday is this nutty play called Work Hard, Have Fun, Make History. And I still am trying to figure out how to talk about this play because it is so wild, but it is a three-person play that is about capitalism and communication. The three actors will take on a myriad of roles throughout the evening, including Jeff Bezos and Elon Musk. Again, it's like this very sharp satire. It's really funny, and it's written by Ruth Tang, who's actually someone that I represented when I was at the agency. So I'm so thrilled that they're a part of this space, and they're collaborating with Kedian, who is this incredible director that I've gotten to know through this space, and I'm so grateful for. Louis Fender is dramaturging that piece.

[21:10] George Strus: On Friday, we have a gorgeous play by Aziza Barnes, who wrote that play Black, so it was at MCC, I think in 2019. And this is Z's return to New York Theater, which we're so thrilled to be sort of homing. And this is a very personal play for Aziza. I think it’s based on Z's paternal lineage and sort of explores colorism and substance abuse within a family dynamic. And Rad Peraria is directing that piece, and Al Parker is dramaturging that play.

[21:44] George Strus: And then the final of the six, you know, complete plays is this new play by Marvel's Melendez, who of course just had the incredible notes on killing at Soho Rep this spring. And this is a play called Thelma and Louise and the TIME MACHINE, and it is a queering of the Thelma and Louise story. I don't want to give away too much, but there is a multiverse because it feels like everything needs a multiverse nowadays. And it sort of explores, you know, women on women love, which is really, I think, going to be very special. So Mara wrote it, of course, and Sivan Batat, who is someone that I've been a fan of for a very long time, is directing that piece for us.

[22:27] George Strus: And then to close the festival, we have this really ambitious project that I'm collaborating on with El Morgan Lee, which is something that we're really excited about. We've partnered with Broadway Licensing, and we've commissioned 15 writers within the TNB2S Plus community to write us original monologues that L. Morgan and I are now in the process of crafting an evening out of. So the finale will be this sort of, you know, it's all coming together actually right now. We're deep in the thick of figuring out what it will be, but we think it will be like two or three actors performing these monologues. And El Morgan and my's task is to craft some sort of arc to the evening, whether that be thematic, whether that be a narrative. So it's a great challenge that we're both really excited to continue working on together. I'm so fortunate to have met El Morgan through this project. She's such a generous collaborator, and it's been such a joy to dive into that with her.

[23:25] Meghan: I wish the listeners could see our faces, because like each and each one that you announce, we're both just like so excited, and it's like just opening a bunch of queer Christmas gifts. Or whatever holiday you celebrate. But this is we're so excited, and yeah, just thank you in advance for all the work that you've done and the team's done on this. It's so thrilling.

[23:53] George Strus: That's very kind of you to say. It's crazy talking about it too, because I think as we were putting together the lineup, I was sort of like, there's no way we're gonna get all these people to do this new festival, this sort of startup festival, you know, Aziza Barnes, Mara, who are having these plays off Broadway. And it was so crazy to see it come together in the way that it has. We couldn't be more thrilled with it. And the El Morgan announcement that just came out too. I feel like that was like, you know, we were already like, wow, this is gonna be incredible. And then that was like this amazing icing on the cake.

[24:23] Meghan: So congrats on that announcement too. Very exciting.

[24:26] George Strus: Thank you. Yes, it was a very exciting day. El Morgan and I were texting throughout most of it, just very grateful for the outpouring of love that I think we both felt from both members of the TNB2S Plus community and our cis sort of allies and friends who were just really excited about the work that was happening.

[24:45] Meghan: And like what a process to curate this. Like you told us a little bit how you're going through it right now with Al Morgan like putting together the arc of the monologue night. But you have you mentioned you have two other collaborators in the curation. Can you tell us a little bit more about how you landed with these seven nights and you know how it all came together?

[25:05] George Strus: Yeah, I think when I had the idea last year to do something like this, my first impulse was to call two of my friends who are both members of the Trans Nonbinarity Spirit Plus community and just gauge their interest in something like this. And those two people were Dominique Ryder, who is an incredible director based here in Brooklyn, who's actually directing one of the shows in the new group's upcoming season, Bernardo's Daughters, shout out to Dominique. As well as Josephine Kearns, who's an incredible dramaturg and gender consultant based out in Chicago, both of whom I represented when I was at the agency, and both of whom I know I adore as people, I really admire as like thinkers, both of whom challenge me, and both of whom, in thinking about this idea, were sort of integral in the idea as it was sort of coming together.

[25:57] George Strus: So as it came time to start thinking about the actual work that we were going to do, I called both of them again and I said, I don't really want to do this alone. That doesn't really sound exciting to me. I work in the theater because I want to feel that sense of community and that sense of collaboration. So is there a world in which you would want to help co-curate this lineup with me? And they both so graciously said yes. And I'm grateful that I personally had Dominique who is such a staunch directorial presence, and Josie, who's such a staunch dramaturgical presence, is I think having you know the two of them come together. We read a bunch of plays, we thought through who we knew within the community that had work that was in need of some sort of development opportunity.

And this is sort of the lineup we came up with. And I think one thing that we spoke a lot about, and one thing that I'm very proud of, is you know, the fact that not all of the plays really are explicitly about gender or or queerness.

[26:57] George Strus: I think that that was something that was really important to us. You know, of course, we have Trans World, and there are plays that deal with gender, but then there are plays like Nana that it's not the center of the play, that's not the focus of the play. It was important to us that we were also showcasing artists from our community telling stories that don't only revolve around our community. Um, and I'm very happy with the sort of lineup of the six plays that we were able to put together. And then they created the prompt for the final Broadway licensing evening. Um, so the prompt is outside on a patio. So those 15 writers are creating those monologues based on the prompt that Dominique and Josie created. So they were really sort of like really integral in the seven evenings, and I'm very grateful to the both of them, as I don't know that this would have all came together in the way that it did without them.

[27:47] Meghan: Oh, that's amazing. And yay, we can have full human experiences outside of just our gender identity. That's I know who would have thought we have other stuff going on.

[28:01] George Strus: What? Uh-huh. Intersectionality, yes. That's so great. And we've talked about this evening of monologues and why was it important for you to include this? And um, I feel like that's kind of a rarer kind of event or a different kind of event than festivals. So yeah. What how did that come about?

[28:21] George Strus: I think we liked the event-ness of it. Like candidly, that's not I think there are other reasons that we sort of thought about, but as we did start to toy with the idea, we were like, this is turning into a bit of an ambitious project. Like, how can we really end with a bang? Like, what can we do that would be really exciting and be sort of outside the box and might surprise a few people? Um, so that was sort of one of the reasons. I think also just the notion of creating more opportunities for more writers was something that was really important to us as we created. The three of us created this, like I think it's like six pages long, a Google Doc list of just writers that we knew. And I was like, we could do this festival 20 times over with all of this incredible talent.

So how can we loop so many of them into this first year? Um so it was, you know, about creating opportunity and also I think the publishing and the licensing that Broadway licensing will do following the festival is a really special way for both the space to live on past this October and also for this work to live on, you know, like how incredible that some kid, whoever, you know, wherever they are will have this book of monologues written by trans, non-binary and two spirit plus writers. Um that I think was really exciting in the notion of that existing, that tangible thing in the world following this October was really sort of the cherry on top and and then really what made us move forward with it.

[29:49] Meghan: And how great to hear someone who has like your understanding of how that can be so um like beneficial to theater fans, but also so beneficial to the artists and their own income in the future, which is you know a rarely an opportunity that we see when shows are presented on this like scale, you know. So that's thanks for bringing your business where we're all into that as well.

[30:14] George Strus: Of course. And so you've already talked about how folks at every level of this festival are trans, non-binary and two Spirit Plus, over a hundred people, right? So you have this community coming together. What has the culture of that been like? How have they been relating and collaborating?

[30:31] George Strus: Yeah, I think that the first word that comes to mind is just joyous. I think, you know, because of the nature and the specificity of the ways in which we've curated the lineup and curated the positions within each show. There are a number of people working together that have never worked together before, and that is incredibly exciting to me. And that was really something that I was trying to make happen with a space like this, so that we can, you know, put together like-minded folks and expand their networks within the community to now go fly-free and do other projects outside of this space together as well. Um I felt, you know, as we were putting all of it together, I sort of felt a bit spoiled.

Like I felt like we were going out to these crazy people, particularly in our core community advisory board, which just has some of the like some of these people that I've idolized for so long, you know, John Cameron Mitchell, I have a Hedwig and the Angry Inch tattoo on my arm, uh, KO, Chris Burney, who is someone that I've really admired for a long time, Jen Silverman, whose play I read in college, Kit Yan, you know, all of these wonderful people that all said yes to doing this. And of course, there were a number of people who were scheduling or logistical issues couldn't be a part of the space, you know, this year or or for whatever reason, but overall the response has been overwhelmingly positive from folks in the TNB2S Plus community and has sort of furthered the sense of urgency and the sense of necessity in a space like this right now.

Um so it's just been a really sort of joyous and just like fun time, which we love. I love making art and having fun while doing it, um, which sadly feels more rare than it should nowadays. So it's been a real real joy.

[32:21] Meghan: Oh, that sounds like such a solve for uh an escape of reality. That's amazing. Uh and I just saw Jen Silverman read at this incredible event called Books in Burlesque. They read an excerpt from their book, and then there was like a burlesque performance based on the themes from the book, and it was so much fun.

[32:43] George Strus: That is so cool. I did not hear about that, and I'm very jealous that I missed it.

[32:48] Meghan: Yeah, there's another one coming up. I'll send you the information. Um, but yeah, it was so fun.

[32:53] George Strus: Yeah, please do. Super queer event, too. So you also going back to your business acumen, you've uh you've made some really interesting budgetary choices for the festival to help make it equitable and accessible for the artists and the audiences. And can you talk about those?

[33:09] George Strus: I can, yes. That's actually something that I think I'm most proud of with this space. I think in addition to the notion of feeling misrepresented in work, I think there was also then historically a notion of feeling underpaid for that work. And I think a lot of that is overall in the theater, the tendency to underpay people. But also I felt a little bit of a stronger sense of that from the folks in my community, whether they were performing in a piece, consulting in a piece, you know, whatever their role was, I felt that in a really strong way. So in the DNA of this festival, and as we were putting together our mission and our values, it was really important to me that every creative participant in this festival was compensated equitably for their time and labor, sort of across the board, and also equitably in terms of rate.

So we are using New York's living wage, which is just under $22 an hour to calculate all of our fees, which means, you know, an artist coming in for a 29-hour workshop is making over $600 for that five days of work. And I think particularly in new play development, which is something that I feel like I've been working in now for a few years, the wages in this industry are just sort of embarrassingly low. And it felt like while making while budgeting for this space and fundraising for this space has been maybe more difficult because of the ways in which we've gone about how we created that budget. It's the only way that I felt really comfortable proceeding in creating something like this. And I love the fact that that it's happening and we are able to do it because I think if we, a little startup non-profit theater festival can do it, why can't some of our larger non-profit peer theaters also start paying talent and performers and writers, those same sort of wages?

So it's that to me is something that has always been at the forefront of my mind and something that I'm so excited that we pulled off and are able to say that we have done, um, which is incredibly exciting to me. And it sets a precedent as you know, we move in the future for the festival.

[35:18] Meghan: And you've you've already hinted at this, which is very exciting when you said that some folks couldn't collaborate this year, but they said maybe next time. So can you tell us? Are there already some thoughts of what the future holds for the festival?

[35:32] George Strus: Yes, are there thoughts? There are many thoughts. Um, I think I have always been someone that has gotten really excited about things and dreamed really big about things. And I think a lot of that comes through in this festival. But even as I think about the future of Breaking the Binary Theater Festival, I'm more now thinking about the future of Breaking the Binary as an umbrella organization. I think it's my dream in a few years that we are in a place where we have the funds to be commissioning artists to write new works, new full works, developing musicals, hosting residencies, nurturing directors or designers, uh, or even producing full, you know, productions or co-producing commercial productions.

I think in a dream world, the festival would serve as our big sort of yearly events for the next few years. But we're already sort of dreaming and scheming and trying to make some extra things happen throughout the year that would really solidify Breaking the Binary as a presence in this industry, not just Breaking the Binary Theater Festival. So nothing concrete just yet, but it's something that I'm really excited to continue thinking and dreaming about as we get through October and then think about, you know, the next year.

[36:49] Meghan: Ooh, that's so exciting. I would love to see Breaking the Binary everywhere in the theater industry.

[36:55] George Strus: Me too. Me too. I feel like that would be so much fun.

[36:58] Meghan: Yeah, definitely. So, kind of moving away from the festival and talking about your other, you know, whole work uh career. Uh, you were the literary manager and associate producer on Pride Plays. And can you tell us about what that experience was like?

[37:14] George Strus: Yes. I think a lot about Pride Plays. I think a lot about Michael Ure, Doug Nevin, and Nick Mayo. Um, and I've thought a lot about them over this past year. I think I feel like in putting together a space like this, I stand on the shoulders of the three of them. I stand on the shoulders of Adamatsis Rubin, who's who founded National Queer Theater. I stand on the shoulders of Cece Swazo, MJ Kaufman and Kit Yan, who founded Trans Lab. Um, I think about those people a lot. And I think I was fortunate with Pride Plays that the first year they did it in 2019, they were really just figuring out what it was and figuring out how to make it happen and just needed support. So I think I just sort of cold emailed them and I was like, hey, I'm around if you need some help.

And you know, I hit it off with Nick. I hit it off with all three of them, and I think I just helped in whatever way I could. I remember being up late designing programs. I remember being on site at the Rattlestick and like pouring wine. That first year it really just felt like this really exciting all hands-on-deck uh just like week of queer theater, which was so incredibly exciting to me. And after that first year, because I like to dream big and I like to, you know, brainstorm, I was talking to them and it felt very in the spirit of what Pride Plays was to open up some sort of submissions policy to invite queer folks from all over the nation to submit their work to be in at that point what would have been the next Pride Plays festival.

And so that's what we did. You know, I think I shepherded that work for the 2020 festival, opened up submissions, you know, read a ton of amazing queer work, hired a team of readers to read some of that queer work. It was this incredibly exciting, like fast-paced two months. I think we got like over 150 plays that we had to read in like five weeks. And so after that work was sort of shepherded, of course, March 2020 happened, pandemic. So the 2020 festival had to live digitally, but I was still really proud of the work that Pride Plays was able to create that summer. You know, we did a number of private and public new play development uh workshops, as well as four really big sort of presentations with Playbill.

And something that I am very proud of that was really a you know, sort of a brainchild of Michael Ure and I was this thing called Pride Pieces, where we invited a number of folks from the queer community to create these sort of clips of their work that we put on our Instagram page. And it was just another way to sort of continue to showcase queer work uh using the platform that that that we were building. And I think that that community building particular with Pride Plays and what they led with that community building is something that you will really clearly see in the DNA of Breaking the Binary as well, and something that I'm actively trying to champion in the ways that Michael, Doug, and Nick did as well. And I can say personally that the 2020, still having it online brought some joy to me because I can very vividly remember sitting on my couch watching Pride Plays in 2020.

[40:17] George Strus: And it was a bright light, a way to celebrate Pride that year, and in a year that was very hard to celebrate Pride in other ways.

[40:25] Meghan: Yeah, I agree. It was really a light for I think you, me, and a lot of people. And I'm really grateful for the work that they were able and we were able to do that June.

[40:34] George Strus: And so, as you mentioned, you know, you design programs, you pour wine, you've done so many things in theater. Those are just a couple. You've also worked as a stage manager, producer, and casting many more ways. So you've seen the industry from many different perspectives. What makes a safe space for trans, non-binary, and two spirit plus folks in the community based on your myriad of perspectives you've had?

[41:01] George Strus: Yeah, it's such an interesting question. As I think, and stay with me, this will sound crazy, but I think I don't know that I so much center creating safe spaces as I do center creating brave spaces. I think like I want the elements of a safe space that we all think about, right? Like I want everyone to lead with civility, respect, and kindness, but I also want to leave some room for disagreement and a challenging of a notion or a challenging of a status quo, which I find that a safe space perhaps can stifle in a lot of ways. So as long as those sort of conversations are navigated properly, I actually try and build spaces where those disagreements can be discussed and interrogated and broken down with the notion of everyone being sort of on the same team and working towards the same goal always prevailing in the end.

And that's sort of what I try and center with my work with Breaking the Binary, with Second Stage and in, you know, in creating those programs. You know, all of the work that I've done since moving to New York, I think that that's really what I try and center as opposed to a safe space. I really want these sort of brave spaces that are rooted in a lot of the elements of a safe space, but allow room for some challenging here and there in a really civil way.

[42:24] Meghan: Yeah, I love that. I think that's how we're gonna continue growing and challenging the notions of what we think of as safe today. Um, that's really important. Thank you. Moving into kind of our final sections that we ask every guest um that are fun for us to the first one we call Queering the Canon. So is there a queer version of a play or musical that already exists that you would love to see with TNB2S Plus folks?

[42:54] George Strus: Yes, I was listening to former episodes of this podcast and really loved this section. And I was like, oh my goodness, what am I gonna talk about? But I do have an idea that I've been thinking about. Please, no one steal this idea. It's very raw. I'm speaking in draft here. But I've been thinking a lot about The Last Five Years recently, which is a musical that I have loved for a long time. Um, I remember walking through middle school and listening to "See I'm Smiling" and like trying not to have a breakdown in the middle of my middle school hallway. And I feel like every time I see a production of that show, I always leave, and the conversation always immediately goes to Team Kathy or Team Jamie.

And I know that Jason Robert Brown has been pretty adamant about the fact that he does not want a queer same-sex Last Five Years. But I'm wondering what happens if you strip away the external gender roles and the sort of visual dynamics by casting two non-binary performers in those roles. I have this like Everybody by Brandon Jacob Jenkins, like Little Foxes fantasy, where the two performers will like meet in the middle, they'll flip a coin, and then that will decide which of the two roles they play. And I don't know if it would work, but I wonder if it would force me and the audience to like re-examine the relationships with those characters and the actions that they take in the musical. And I wonder if it would then re-examine those conversations that we leave the theater talking about.

Because I think when I think of revivals, that's what I get excited about in a good revival is like something that reinterrogates something and it makes me re-question my notions of what I thought it was. And I wonder if this idea, as crazy as it sounds, might be effective in doing that. I don't know. I would be really curious to try it out in a workshop and just like see what happened.

[45:00] Meghan: Oh my gosh, absolutely. I'm like getting chills uh with a coin flip. Well, because either one of us could, in a relationship, you could go either way. You could be a Jamie or depending on what happens. Oh my gosh. I think what we have come to the conclusion of, and like you've just driven this home, is that we just need to not tell Jason Robert Brown and just keep doing The Last Five Years that we wanted to need to do a whole festival of different interpretations of The Last Five Years, and somehow we'll just keep it from him. I don't know how. But yeah, Jason, if you're listening, please uh don't take legal action on me.

[45:36] George Strus: I'd be shocked. I'm just thinking like the powerful vocalists you would need to be able who would be able to sing both parts. But yeah, oh it would be so crazy. And that's why like it's such a crazy idea, right? To find someone to find two people, presumably three, if we needed, let's say an understudy, that can sing the entire score to Last Five Years just by themselves. I don't know that those people are out there, but if there's anyone that would be willing to try, I think it's me. So I'll see. I've been dreaming a lot about it. It's an idea that like hasn't been able to leave my head.

[46:17] Meghan: And if any of our listeners think they're one of those people, please come forward.

[46:21] George Strus: Yes, please. No. Info at btb-nyc.com. Send me your stuff. We're ready for it. Maybe we can just give it a different. All right, now I'm talking about committing crimes, but we need to do the show somehow.

[46:38] Meghan: It'll happen.

[46:40] George Strus: Yes, let's manifest that. Certainly.

[46:42] Meghan: So outside of the theater world, uh, what is your current queer culture indulgence? This could be a book, it could be another event, it could be a TV show, a movie.

[46:54] George Strus: Yes. I mean, I am a big RuPaul's Drag Race person. Like, I know there are people that say that, but I'm the type of person that watches all of the international spin-offs, the ones that aren't in English. I watch the Queen of the Universe spin-offs. I watch it all. I just think there is nothing that brings me so much joy on the television than that show is able to bring me. Um alternatively, my other vice is sadly The Real Housewives. I think I watch all of the franchises again. And if there's anything I know, it is that The Real Housewives is very queer, and I love it so much more for that reason. Um I find The Housewives in particular at the beginning of the pandemic was very helpful for me as someone who was craving like human connection to be able to sit in my bed and watch these women throw wine glasses at each other, scream at each other.

It like was somewhat therapeutic in a very maybe demented way for me, because I got to see people interacting in the world. And so I love The Housewives, I love Drag Race. I'm also a big like music person, but I think my music taste is pretty what I would call basic. So, like, of course, I've been listening to Beyoncé's album. We love Renaissance. Um, but I'm very excited for Rina Sawayama's new album. I think it comes out next month. And I've been really loving uh Demi Lovato's recent album. I think it's some of their best work in a really long time. So those are sort of like some of my indulgences as of late.

[48:24] Meghan: Amazing. Yeah. I didn't know Drag Race had like international spin-offs, but I think that's a good idea.

[48:29] George Strus: Oh my goodness. They announced a new one every week. Like literally last week, I think they just announced Drag Race Mexico, Brazil, and somewhere else. But they have by the time this airs, they'll probably have Drag Race New Jersey at this point because they are really just churning them out so quickly all over the planet.

[48:50] Meghan: Oh, but I would watch that.

[48:52] George Strus: Oh, as a New Jersey native, that's my that's what I'm really waiting for. I'm ready for that one.

[48:57] Meghan: Yeah. Right to Ru. Ru's making so much money.

[49:03] George Strus: Unlimited. I know.

[49:05] Meghan: That's amazing. Do you have a favorite queen if you had to pick?

[49:09] George Strus: Uh Monet X Change. Monet X Change, if you're listening, I idolize you. Please let me produce a concert of you singing opera at Carnegie Hall. I think that it would be a lot of fun. Um, I love Monet X Change. Monet X Change was the first drag queen I saw before she was on Drag Race when I moved to New York City. So to see her sort of get on the show, spoiler alert, she won one of the seasons on the show, and then she did really well on the All Winners season of the show. It's been such a joy to see her like impress everyone and impress the world in the ways that she impressed me in like 2014 at Industry or wherever I saw her many years ago. So there needs to be like a BTB concert series where she can come and perform.

[49:53] Meghan: Okay, great.

[49:54] George Strus: Yes, Monet X Change, call me. We'll figure something out. You know? Do you think she could do The Last Five Years?

[50:04] Meghan: Oh my gosh, Megan. She could be one of our people. It all comes together.

[50:11] George Strus: All right, we're on to something here. I think the wheels in my head are turning quite rapidly.

[50:19] Meghan: And then uh our one of our last sections is Queer Gives. Uh is there an organization, uh, you know, mutual aid fund, anything that you'd like to shout out. This could totally be Breaking the Binary Theatre Festival, uh, where folks can donate or like support in other ways of volunteering that you'd like to raise up.

[50:37] George Strus: Yes. I mean, of course, we will accept any donations to Breaking the Binary Theatre Festival. We do have a classy page that you can find on our website. But outside of BTB, I think the first organization that came to mind was Black Trans Liberation, um, which is run by Queen Jean, who I think was very recently on this podcast, actually. Yeah. Um, Queen, again, I feel like a broken record, was someone that I represented at the agency, someone who I just idolize. I think the work that Queen is doing is so vital and the way that she does it is so awe-inspiring to me. Um, I really I really love Queen Jean. Um so Black Trans Liberation is her organization that empowers and celebrates Black trans people.

Um so I think that that is certainly one that I would want to uplift. And then a few others that I was sort of thinking a lot about were Mika Kaufman's Trans Entertainment Guild, um, of course, the Okra Project and uh Legacy with a shout out to Garrett Allen um because I really love the work that that collective is doing.

[51:40] Meghan: Awesome. And last but not least, how would folks follow you and also the festival online?

[51:46] George Strus: Yes, you can find the festival at BTBTFNYC on both Instagram and Twitter. And you can find me at @GeorgeStruss again on both Instagram and Twitter. I'm on Facebook too, but I don't really use that very often. So you'll find me more often on those two.

[52:04] Meghan: Amazing. And I can't wait to see you at the festival in October. I'm like saving that week to see all the things if I can.

[52:13] George Strus: Yes. Oh my goodness, I would love to see you both there. I think it's gonna be a really exciting week. Tickets go on sale on Monday, September 26th. And I would urge you to write that down in your calendars because I think it's gonna be um a fun day for everyone. So I hope to see the both of you there. It would be lovely to get to meet in person.

[52:34] Meghan: Definitely. And thank you so much for being here with us. It was such a pleasure talking to you.

[52:37] George Strus: Thank you. Oh my goodness, the pleasure was mine. Thank you both. Um, I really enjoyed this chat. Um, and thank you again for inviting me to be on.

[52:47] Meghan: Thanks for listening. If you like, please follow, rate, and review us, and share us with your friends. You can find us on Instagram and Twitter at Thesis on Joan. We'd love to hear your queer culture recs and ideas for queering the canon. Send us an email at thesisonjoan at gmail.com or leave us a voicemail at 845-445-9251. Come back for more interviews, fun queer content, recommendations, and discussions on current theater. Until next time, keep it queer. Not that it'd be that hard for y'all to do.