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[0:07] Harrow: Welcome back, queers. This is season four, episode six. Today, Harrow and I are talking Tonys. Thesis on Joan is a podcast dedicated to amplifying voices from the LGBTQ+ community in the New York performing arts scene and examining the industry from a queer perspective. Join us as we sit down with groundbreaking theater folks, both on stage and behind the curtain. For many queers, theater has been an escape, and this podcast looks to have open conversations on where we've come from and where we're headed as a community while queering the canon along the way.

[0:42] Meghan Dixon Thesis: Alright. Hi Harrow.

[0:44] Harrow: Hey Meghan.

[0:45] Meghan Dixon Thesis: So the Tonys happened.

[0:47] Harrow: They did.

[0:48] Meghan Dixon Thesis: We didn't know if they were going to for a minute, uh, but they did.

[0:53] Harrow: I know. I feel like you can't talk about the Tonys this year without talking about the writer's strike. Um, and I'm still kind of shocked that it went forward. I don't know. What do you think?

[1:05] Meghan Dixon Thesis: Yeah, me too. And especially after you reminded me that the last time there was a writer's strike, they didn't happen. Um, so I was kind of bracing myself for that, but I am glad that they did go on, and I hope that it's gonna help support the shows that were showcased. Um, and it's always, I don't know, a pretty joyful night for me to be able to watch the Tonys.

[1:26] Harrow: Yeah, I'm always like kind of amazed that like the whole country could, I don't know if they are tuned in to check out some musical numbers from Broadway. Um, and the setup, because of the writer's strike, they had the, um, there's no script, right? So it was all very like dance heavy music, and then I think the funniest was the presentation of the awards was so like cut and dry. It was like the nominees are, the winner is. Like very few people took advantage of the opportunity to just like off book it.

[2:03] Meghan Dixon Thesis: Yeah. I kind of love that though. I didn't miss the like corny bits or the like trying to be funny. There were some funny moments that I felt like just happened kind of, uh, organically, and that felt a lot better to me than, you know, trying really hard.

[2:19] Harrow: Yeah, I feel like I appreciated how quickly it all moved without all the extra things.

[2:26] Meghan Dixon Thesis: Yeah, and I felt like it gave more time, like they did clips from the plays when the nominees were announced, and I really liked that. That felt new. And I don't think they would have done that if they had had to, like if they had been shorter on time.

[2:41] Harrow: Yeah, I remember they did that like way in the way in the past, like at least ten years ago, and they had like moved away from it, but like I love seeing the play clips, and especially if you think about the Tonys solely as a marketing tool, right? So you're marketing these shows for folks visiting New York, you're marketing these shows for people who will see musicals on tour, but you're also marketing plays to be licensed in terms of the best play category. So I think having a visual for it helps folks who run regional and different theaters across the country have a better idea of what they're shopping for too.

[3:18] Meghan Dixon Thesis: Yeah. I think it did lead to some very strange clips for the musicals. Uh, I was I was reading that like they would have had to secure their rights if they had shown any of the songs. So all the clips they showed were dialogue, were scenes. But it felt very strange and off, I think, for musicals to be showing that. Like the one that sticks out to my mind is Ruthie Ann Miles because how committed she is.

[3:55] Harrow: Yeah, so her clip, she's playing what is that character's name technically?

[3:59] Meghan Dixon Thesis: Lucy in Sweeney Todd.

[4:01] Harrow: Lucy, okay. But yeah, the clip was literally just her talking and then spitting.

[4:06] Meghan Dixon Thesis: Yeah.

[4:08] Harrow: And I love the cut to her in the audience, and she was just like shrugged shoulders, like, okay.

[4:15] Meghan Dixon Thesis: Yeah, it seemed pretty clear that the performers had not okayed the clips that were chosen for.

[4:23] Harrow: Yeah. I mean that makes sense though with the music.

[4:26] Meghan Dixon Thesis: Yeah, I was wondering about that. But yeah, more clips. I think that's great. Feature as much of the shows as you can.

[4:34] Harrow: Yeah. And for some of the shows that are closed, I'm like, that's the only thing I'll ever see from that performance, probably. So sadly. R.I.P.

[4:43] Meghan Dixon Thesis: Because all the best plays are all the revival plays were closed except one. And I think most of the best plays are either almost closed or yeah, so things move quickly in those categories.

[4:58] Harrow: Yeah, and we had host return host Ariana Debose came back.

[5:03] Meghan Dixon Thesis: Gosh. She can host anything any day. Like she's such a star. Um, we have to talk about that big opening number where you know she flips through a blank script and then it goes into like a big dance montage through the gorgeous lobby of the United Palace, where she jumps, she flings her body fully down a flight of stairs to be caught.

[5:27] Harrow: And I think we were watching it together, and I think we all just like gasped aloud.

[5:32] Meghan Dixon Thesis: Yeah. We were watching with our friend Christine, and I think we're all just like, oh no. Like terrifying.

[5:39] Harrow: I mean, she made it look easy, but yeah. I think the angle they shot it from just made it also look very dramatic.

[5:46] Meghan Dixon Thesis: Yeah. Death-defying feats by Ariana Debose.

[5:51] Harrow: Um, it's bad to admit that when she was flipping through the blank script, I didn't even think about what that symbolized.

[5:57] Meghan Dixon Thesis: Okay.

[5:58] Harrow: I don't know, we're going rogue, and then I was like, oh yeah, writer's strike. Right, right, right. Forgot.

[6:04] Meghan Dixon Thesis: Yeah. Um, and they brought it up a lot, so I think if anyone was worried about the Tonys happening in spite of the strike, I think it was very much a vehicle for many people to speak up about supporting it and fighting for it.

[6:20] Harrow: So absolutely, yeah. Um, it didn't occur to me that the writer's strike would also impact like the people writing lyrics, like new lyrics for the Tonys, and that's why there weren't really songs with lyrics in them that they, uh, that were original pieces.

[6:37] Meghan Dixon Thesis: Um, but I kind of like that too. And the dancing was amazing.

[6:41] Harrow: Yeah, the dancing was great, and I feel like that's rarely featured on this broadcast. So there were definitely some queer couple partners dancing in the opening act. Did you see that?

[6:50] Meghan Dixon Thesis: That was very exciting.

[6:52] Harrow: Oh, I saw it and I heard you go, okay.

[6:57] Meghan Dixon Thesis: Yeah, that was a nice little Easter egg moment there. Um, the framing of it was just what it needed to be. It wasn't like overly hosted either. I feel like she only came on maybe like four or five times throughout the whole broadcast.

[7:11] Harrow: So one of my favorite moments was when she was like, Welcome whoever shows up on stage.

[7:21] Meghan Dixon Thesis: I don't remember that part.

[7:23] Harrow: Oh my gosh. Yeah. She must have not known, like didn't have the cards or whatever for who was coming up first.

[7:29] Meghan Dixon Thesis: Oh, that's true, 'cause there's no prompter. So, and she was in the audience at that point. Um, that was very funny.

[7:36] Harrow: It was uh David Henry Hwang was one of them, and I forget who the other person was. Um, my friend was like, She had one job.

[7:47] Meghan Dixon Thesis: Yeah.

[7:49] Harrow: A lot of stuff to remember.

[7:50] Meghan Dixon Thesis: It is, yeah. No, I didn't put her some slack.

[7:54] Harrow: Yeah. I was trying to think if there were any other like kind of wacky off book moments. Kind of the really w the one that sticks with me is when um, uh, somebody called the governor of Florida the Grand Wizard.

[8:10] Meghan Dixon Thesis: Yeah, Danae Benton.

[8:12] Harrow: That was Danae Benton, okay. When she was presenting the uh Teacher of the Year awards.

[8:19] Meghan Dixon Thesis: So amazing. That was uh such a good moment.

[8:23] Harrow: Yeah. And speaking of the Teacher of the Year Award, yet again the Tonys finds ways to be the most inaccessible award show to watch on television. Um, this year it was on Pluto TV, which I downloaded for the first time on Sunday, took it off my iPad after. Sorry, Pluto TV. Um, but yeah, I it'll always like just kind of tear me up a little bit that they present all the creative awards off regular broadcasts. So like over, was it over half of the awards they did in the first half one? Including the one like best uh score.

[9:03] Meghan Dixon Thesis: Yeah.

[9:04] Harrow: That I just can't why. Best score was first, and so if you couldn't even get the app to work, you missed it. And that's the second time Janine Tesori has had to accept a Tony Award off air, basically.

[9:20] Meghan Dixon Thesis: Such bullshit.

[9:21] Harrow: Yeah, it's not fair.

[9:23] Meghan Dixon Thesis: Yeah.

[9:24] Harrow: Um, they only saved like the big show awards and the performance awards for and the big writing awards. But like all these creative, I don't know. I feel like you always see like the most rich representation from like the creatives and like the most interesting speeches.

[9:40] Meghan Dixon Thesis: Um, yeah, uh it's sad that that's cut because a lot of people don't even know that these are careers that exist in the theater.

[9:48] Harrow: Yeah, exactly. And I don't know what the solution is. Like I also don't want a five-hour Tony broadcast, right? 'Cause people aren't gonna stay for that, but only us.

[10:00] Meghan Dixon Thesis: I know. I'm like give me an eight-hour Tony broadcast. I'm ready. I'll watch every minute.

[10:06] Harrow: Yeah. It's not like there was anything I'd want cut from the televised broadcast. I thought it was all good content.

[10:11] Meghan Dixon Thesis: Mm-hmm. Absolutely. Um, so the format is will continue to be weird. Can't wait to see what they do next year. It'll be like go to this park, download this app that's location specific. You can watch one number here, and then you have to go this other look. I don't know. It's gonna be like Pokémon Go brings you the Tonys but the least accessible, amazing.

[10:33] Harrow: Yeah. So the big award of the night, um, best musical went to Kimberly Akimbo, which you've seen, I have not seen, and I was actually a little surprised, even though I I knew they were in the running for this. What did you think?

[10:48] Meghan Dixon Thesis: Yeah, I think of all the show I haven't seen Shucked, which I really I still really want to see, so I can't really speak to that. But of the other shows, I haven't seen New York New York either. But this was felt the most original. Um, this and Shucked, so I was kind of rooting for Kimberly or Shucked. Um, I think the show was a little overhyped for me before I saw it, so I had really high expectations.

[11:14] Harrow: Um, and it's a pretty quiet show and it has a kind of a simple sweet message, and I think I wanted something a little I was expecting something a little more complicated, I think, coming from Janine Tesori, coming from a straight play.

[11:29] Meghan Dixon Thesis: Um, and yeah, it's a good time. I think it has some great music. Um, but yeah, I think it just wasn't what is I I was expecting, but I'm I'm happy it won.

[11:38] Harrow: Yeah, it seems like it's always nice when something completely original takes it, and um, even though it's based on a play, I think David Lindsay-Abaire's play was he just made it up. I don't think it's based on anything else. Um, but yeah, and two performers won Victoria Clark and Bonnie Milligan, and you said that their performances were great, right?

[12:01] Meghan Dixon Thesis: I fucking love Bonnie. Like I'm so glad that she's getting all the accolades because she's amazing. Like she was the best part of the show for me, definitely stood out. Um, like the fat representation is incredible. Like there are parts where I felt like, is this a fat joke? And I hope it's not, but I think again, like depends on kind of the audience perception that it could be seen as a fat joke.

[12:25] Harrow: Um, but I think they were trying to not do that as much as possible.

[12:30] Meghan Dixon Thesis: Yeah. I know. I feel like I've been wanting justice for Bonnie since Head Over Heels, so I'm glad that this happened. I saw her in some Prospect Theater musical where she was like a Viking.

[12:45] Harrow: Was that the Jasper one with Matt Doyle? Anyway, she was amazing. Like, imagine her as a Viking and like singing her face off.

[12:53] Meghan Dixon Thesis: Yeah. Oh, I would be there. That's awesome.

[12:57] Harrow: I will say I was a little, as someone who hasn't seen the show, a little confused by the number they picked to perform. I feel like I know a little bit about the show and I still kind of didn't know what was going on. So I don't know if there's another number you thought they should have picked for that moment.

[13:16] Meghan Dixon Thesis: Yeah, I think they picked the number that they wanted to showcase Victoria and Justin. I would have gone with a Bonnie song. Like hers are the most upbeat, they're funny, they're entertaining. I think people would have wanted to see it.

[13:29] Harrow: Uh, I love the song "Better," which is basically her being like, I do all these shitty things to other people because it makes my life better, including like stealing from old ladies.

[13:42] Meghan Dixon Thesis: Um, I'm intrigued.

[13:46] Harrow: Yeah, it's very, it's a great song, it's a good bop. Um, but yeah, I think that's the most catchy, but that's not really the essence of the show.

[13:56] Meghan Dixon Thesis: Mm-hmm.

[13:57] Harrow: Yeah. I was like, oh man, people are seeing this and gonna be like, I hope that doesn't come on tour. This seems strange.

[14:05] Meghan Dixon Thesis: Um, but I am excited to see it now. I have been meaning to get to it, so they won me over with Bonnie, I think.

[14:14] Harrow: I was just gonna say, I kind of wish it was still a play, because I thought there was a lot to mine with the family dynamics that they just didn't have enough time to get into that were really interesting, but because of the musicalness and the kind of bubbliness, it lost that aspect of it, and that was the part I was the most interested in. So I'd be interested. I need I want to read the play version of it too.

[14:37] Meghan Dixon Thesis: Yeah. I'm curious if things changed too from the play to the musical.

[14:41] Harrow: Yeah. Adapting himself, really.

[14:44] Meghan Dixon Thesis: Yeah. And there's a queer aspect, there's like four high school kids who all have like crushes on each other, and that that's queer and it's very cute too.

[14:54] Meghan Dixon Thesis: So there's some queer stuff.

[14:57] Harrow: And I'm happy it was able to kinda hang on.

[15:00] Meghan Dixon Thesis: It opened very early in the season, and I know getting through that December, January, February like time is tough, and they made it, and I hope they're getting good bump now that they have that best musical award.

[15:14] Harrow: Yeah, I hope so too.

[15:16] Meghan Dixon Thesis: I don't have much to say about best play.

[15:18] Harrow: Yeah.

[15:19] Meghan Dixon Thesis: Yeah.

[15:21] Harrow: I think I'm not surprised that this one, but yeah, I yeah.

[15:26] Meghan Dixon Thesis: So okay, confession.

[15:28] Harrow: I won the lottery for it last week on Wednesday.

[15:31] Meghan Dixon Thesis: This is Leopold's shot, by the way.

[15:33] Harrow: Yes.

[15:34] Meghan Dixon Thesis: And I decided to skip it because I wanted to watch the finale of the ultimatum queer edition instead.

[15:42] Harrow: Can you think of a more specific way for a theater kid to celebrate pride?

[15:48] Meghan Dixon Thesis: I'm skipping Leopold's shot to watch the ultimatum.

[15:53] Harrow: Oh my goodness.

[15:54] Meghan Dixon Thesis: I'm still stand by my choices. It was fun, and I got to, you know, yeah, do all the water cooler talk the next day.

[16:00] Harrow: So yeah, which was important, honestly.

[16:03] Meghan Dixon Thesis: Yes.

[16:04] Harrow: Um yeah, I I want to see it. I will say that like the I feel like I never have the bandwidth for a Stoppard show, but I know.

[16:13] Meghan Dixon Thesis: We'll see.

[16:14] Harrow: It's only around for a few weeks.

[16:15] Meghan Dixon Thesis: So we'll see the lottery again.

[16:18] Harrow: Mm-hmm.

[16:20] Meghan Dixon Thesis: And I was like pleasantly surprised that Top Dog Underdog won play revival.

[16:24] Harrow: I didn't think it was going to win, but to get to see Susan Laurie Parks up on stage just like so happy and excited like that was really cool.

[16:32] Meghan Dixon Thesis: Yeah.

[16:32] Harrow: It made me very sad I missed it.

[16:34] Meghan Dixon Thesis: Um but yeah love her love anytime she can get up on stage and speak yeah.

[16:40] Harrow: Like rock star of the off Broadway world and I feel like most folks who follow just Broadway wouldn't even really know who she is.

[16:49] Meghan Dixon Thesis: So I'm glad that I'm glad that she was up there as one of the producers.

[16:54] Harrow: That was genius on the show's part too I think to make her a producer because she if she hadn't been she wouldn't really have been up there accepting that award so that's so wild.

[17:04] Meghan Dixon Thesis: And she won the original production one a Tony too I think it was nominated for Best Play but did not win.

[17:13] Harrow: But it did win the Pulitzer that year.

[17:16] Meghan Dixon Thesis: So again joining Fat Ham in the long line of plays that do not win best play but have won the Pulitzer gotta win one of them I I was yeah I was hoping that they would win Best Play.

[17:31] Harrow: Um I I kind of thought they had it, but never underestimate Tom Stoppard.

[17:37] Meghan Dixon Thesis: I really wanted Ain't No Mo to win.

[17:39] Harrow: I Fa Fat Ham was my second choice, but I thought Ain't No Mo was so beautiful and like one of the most radical things I'd ever seen on Broadway.

[17:49] Meghan Dixon Thesis: Yeah.

[17:50] Harrow: Did they end up winning any awards?

[17:52] Meghan Dixon Thesis: No, I don't think so.

[17:54] Harrow: Ugh Yeah.

[17:55] Meghan Dixon Thesis: Well, I hope they get licensed.

[17:57] Harrow: I hope that people saw it and want to know more.

[18:00] Meghan Dixon Thesis: So yeah, for sure.

[18:02] Harrow: And then we had uh Best Musical Revival, which went to Parade.

[18:07] Meghan Dixon Thesis: I was shocked by this too, honestly.

[18:10] Harrow: Yeah.

[18:11] Meghan Dixon Thesis: Yeah, because you I again I have not seen this yet, so you said it wasn't necessarily your favorite thing that you've seen.

[18:18] Harrow: I think I was very disappointed because Parade to me is about the music and Lucille, aka Carolie Carmelo, and I just wanted Carolie Carmelo to be in the show and she wasn't.

[18:30] Meghan Dixon Thesis: So I was disappointed.

[18:32] Harrow: Ben Platt's great. I think the direction's really interesting.

[18:35] Meghan Dixon Thesis: I was struck by like how because I I watched the recording like a video recording of the original at Toft at the Performing Arts Library, but I don't think I got how much of the show uh is about the framing of this murder of this lynching and like how the politics behind what was going on at the time made it happen.

[18:58] Harrow: Um and it that was really that's really clear in this revival and I felt anxious to the whole show, even though I knew what was gonna happen.

[19:05] Meghan Dixon Thesis: I was just so anxious about yeah, the outcome.

[19:09] Harrow: Um and the music is gorgeous, so yeah, it's uh I'm I'm glad it won.

[19:14] Meghan Dixon Thesis: Um yeah.

[19:16] Harrow: I loved Into the Woods, but I understand why that didn't win and I haven't seen the other two revivals yet.

[19:24] Meghan Dixon Thesis: Yeah, I was kind of surprised.

[19:26] Harrow: Well, I didn't really know what to think with this category because I've heard I mean I know Into the Woods is good, but it's not like a fully staged thing and Parade also isn't like totally staged.

[19:37] Meghan Dixon Thesis: Would you say it's more staged than Into the Woods?

[19:39] Harrow: Yeah.

[19:40] Meghan Dixon Thesis: Oh yeah.

[19:41] Harrow: Mm-hmm.

[19:41] Meghan Dixon Thesis: Yeah.

[19:42] Harrow: And then Sweeney Todd is I haven't heard that it's like the best revival ever, but it is a beloved show and it is probably selling the best.

[19:53] Meghan Dixon Thesis: So, you know, it's I don't know, it was a weird category this year.

[19:56] Harrow: Yeah.

[19:57] Meghan Dixon Thesis: Yeah.

[19:57] Harrow: And then I was also excited that the show was at the United Palace Theater, which is just a few blocks away from where I live, which is exciting.

[20:06] Meghan Dixon Thesis: I remember going there the first time.

[20:07] Harrow: I went to a West Side Story movie screening, the original.

[20:11] Meghan Dixon Thesis: And I was just floored that a theater so beautiful existed, you know, in Washington Heights, and I had never heard of it, I'd never been there.

[20:19] Harrow: And like the lobby is so gorgeous.

[20:21] Meghan Dixon Thesis: The theater itself is so gorgeous.

[20:23] Harrow: And then it had uh this was probably ten years ago.

[20:26] Meghan Dixon Thesis: It had Lynn Manuel Miranda and Rita Moreno came out and did like a talk back after the f the screening.

[20:32] Harrow: So cool.

[20:33] Meghan Dixon Thesis: It was such a cool event.

[20:34] Harrow: Um they had like dancers in the lobby doing the dances with the gangs.

[20:39] Meghan Dixon Thesis: They had like cupcakes with like West Side Story decoration on it.

[20:43] Harrow: It was such a cool fun event.

[20:45] Meghan Dixon Thesis: Um yeah, and so I'm so glad it's getting featured like this now.

[20:50] Harrow: Yeah, it was I think what a great feature of it too, from the lobby to like into the actual house.

[20:56] Meghan Dixon Thesis: Like I know my um my dad texted me like, Whoa, you know, like I can't believe this theater looks like this.

[21:03] Harrow: Because if you do go to Broadway theaters, he's been to many and it they don't look like that.

[21:08] Meghan Dixon Thesis: This was like a huge touring house like spectacle.

[21:13] Harrow: Yeah.

[21:13] Meghan Dixon Thesis: So again, hope just like that.

[21:15] Harrow: I hope the plays get licensed.

[21:17] Meghan Dixon Thesis: I hope people are booking the United Palace for stuff.

[21:19] Harrow: Yeah, it's so worn neat.

[21:21] Meghan Dixon Thesis: Yeah.

[21:22] Harrow: Although I did hear a rumor that the air conditioner wasn't working.

[21:26] Meghan Dixon Thesis: People did keep commenting about how hot it was.

[21:30] Harrow: And if you look back at the pictures, there are a lot of people are pretty shiny.

[21:34] Meghan Dixon Thesis: So that's okay.

[21:37] Harrow: We don't have to include that.

[21:38] Meghan Dixon Thesis: We don't have to tell people that.

[21:40] Harrow: I think we should.

[21:42] Meghan Dixon Thesis: They the people deserve to know.

[21:44] Harrow: That's true.

[21:46] Meghan Dixon Thesis: Can't cover up lies about the United Palace.

[21:49] Harrow: Um but yeah.

[21:53] Meghan Dixon Thesis: So what was a highlight for you, Harrow in watching the broadcast?

[21:57] Harrow: I know we've already talked about a lot of moments. I mean, the two actors, the two non-binary performers that won Best Actor in a musical was definitely the highlight for me.

[22:07] Meghan Dixon Thesis: Like first Alex Newell for Shucked, followed by Jay Harrison Gee.

[22:12] Harrow: Like I was hoping at least one of them would win, and to have both of them just felt like such a beautiful um I don't know, cap to the evening.

[22:21] Meghan Dixon Thesis: Uh I really wasn't expecting that either.

[22:24] Harrow: And it it gave me it gave me some hope, also some frustration that we're still fucking gendered categories.

[22:31] Meghan Dixon Thesis: Like, why?

[22:32] Harrow: Um hopefully these wins will push the Tonys to get rid of the gendered categories.

[22:38] Meghan Dixon Thesis: Um, but yeah, I cannot believe the outer critic circle got rid of the gendered categories before the Tonys, but I know that is that's wild to me.

[22:49] Harrow: Yeah, yeah.

[22:52] Meghan Dixon Thesis: I hope if anything, like these wins make them like really strongly consider like, okay, clearly, you know, we need to figure this out.

[23:01] Harrow: Cause we don't want other folks to have to, you know, excuse themselves or fit pick a category that they don't fit in.

[23:10] Meghan Dixon Thesis: Maybe both of these actors had to do that.

[23:11] Harrow: I I don't know they did.

[23:13] Meghan Dixon Thesis: They had to choose.

[23:14] Harrow: They did.

[23:15] Meghan Dixon Thesis: Yeah.

[23:16] Harrow: So it's I mean, I'm so thrilled they both won though, and they both looked amazing.

[23:21] Meghan Dixon Thesis: Yeah.

[23:22] Harrow: And seen so like I know Jay Harrison like definitely deserves that award, and I've seen the I've seen Alex's like main song and it's incredible.

[23:31] Meghan Dixon Thesis: Like their voice is out of this world.

[23:33] Harrow: So yeah, I'm so happy for them.

[23:36] Meghan Dixon Thesis: I was we're all happy that Leah Michelle had to watch Alex and Will accept an award.

[23:44] Harrow: Yep.

[23:45] Meghan Dixon Thesis: Yep.

[23:46] Harrow: I would have loved to see that interaction afterwards.

[23:49] Meghan Dixon Thesis: Yeah.

[23:50] Harrow: What if the camera just cut right to her as they were giving their speech?

[23:54] Meghan Dixon Thesis: Oh.

[23:56] Harrow: Yeah.

[23:56] Meghan Dixon Thesis: I did I think I sighed or groaned every time they showed Leah Michelle.

[24:01] Harrow: I'm sorry for that.

[24:03] Meghan Dixon Thesis: No, I I wanna say that that was actually my like low point of the Tonies, is that they let them perform.

[24:11] Harrow: Like I get it, again, the Tonies is a marketing tool, but that show already performed.

[24:16] Meghan Dixon Thesis: They had their moment.

[24:17] Harrow: Like, yeah, they're going on tour, but Funny Girl's gonna sell anyway, so who cares?

[24:21] Meghan Dixon Thesis: Like leave the space for the new shows to get a chance.

[24:25] Harrow: You think Kimberly Akimbo's gonna get another opportunity to do a musical number on TV?

[24:30] Meghan Dixon Thesis: No, right?

[24:31] Harrow: This is it.

[24:32] Meghan Dixon Thesis: So why are we closing it out with a song everyone knows with a person everyone recognizes?

[24:39] Harrow: Well, she's already performed that song on the Tonies.

[24:42] Meghan Dixon Thesis: Yep.

[24:42] Harrow: Yeah, performance we've already seen on the Tonies.

[24:46] Meghan Dixon Thesis: Um, so that was a bummer.

[24:49] Harrow: Yeah.

[24:50] Meghan Dixon Thesis: I was very grateful we didn't have to see uh Christian Borrell in a dress at any point.

[24:56] Harrow: This is true.

[24:57] Meghan Dixon Thesis: Yes.

[24:57] Harrow: I'm glad whoever structured that performance, they did a nice job showing us about the tap, showing us why we need to all go celebrate JRS and Yee, but we Yeah, tastefully did not include Christian Borrell's drag moment on National TV.

[25:14] Harrow: I thought Some Like It Hot had one of the best performances that night.

[25:17] Meghan Dixon Thesis: Uh it was so Oh yeah.

[25:19] Harrow: Like classic musical theater, the choreography looked great, the costumes are so beautiful.

[25:23] Meghan Dixon Thesis: Um yeah, I bet that we'll get it some ticket sales.

[25:27] Harrow: Yeah, I hope so.

[25:28] Meghan Dixon Thesis: I hope everyone got some kind of bump from this.

[25:31] Harrow: Um, like a show like Life of Pi.

[25:34] Meghan Dixon Thesis: I hope they got a lot of ticket sales after all those design awards.

[25:37] Harrow: Yeah.

[25:38] Meghan Dixon Thesis: They were mostly not broadcast, but we did show some things.

[25:41] Harrow: I was so happy Life of Pi won so many awards.

[25:45] Meghan Dixon Thesis: Um, I really love that production.

[25:47] Harrow: Did you know the one of the understudies for the main character who's usually a boy is is a queer woman?

[25:54] Meghan Dixon Thesis: No.

[25:55] Harrow: Yeah, or at least a queer AFAB person.

[25:57] Meghan Dixon Thesis: Um I would love to see that person go on.

[26:01] Harrow: Yeah.

[26:02] Meghan Dixon Thesis: Oh, that's awesome.

[26:03] Harrow: Yeah.

[26:04] Meghan Dixon Thesis: Um, I also I like the of the performances I preferred.

[26:07] Harrow: I I really like the Anne Juliet one.

[26:09] Meghan Dixon Thesis: I thought that was really fun.

[26:10] Harrow: And I enjoyed the Sweeney one because I hadn't really seen the choreography or the staging of any of it, and I was I wasn't expecting it to be so choreographed, but I was into it.

[26:21] Meghan Dixon Thesis: It was real creepy.

[26:22] Harrow: Yeah, I was like, give me that wall of sound.

[26:25] Meghan Dixon Thesis: Like they showed you like we we got the numbers and we're gonna scream in your face.

[26:29] Harrow: And I'm like, all right, great.

[26:30] Meghan Dixon Thesis: Yes.

[26:31] Harrow: I was disappointed that Annalie Ashford wasn't part of the performance.

[26:35] Meghan Dixon Thesis: Um I mean, I know she's amazing, but does the rest of America know?

[26:39] Harrow: Not sure.

[26:40] Meghan Dixon Thesis: She's been in a lot of televised stuff now.

[26:45] Harrow: And at least small things.

[26:46] Meghan Dixon Thesis: Um but not singing the worst prize in London.

[26:49] Harrow: That's true, it's true.

[26:51] Meghan Dixon Thesis: Did you watch Masters of Sex?

[26:53] Harrow: No, but Grace always talks about it because she's she's gay in it, right?

[26:57] Meghan Dixon Thesis: Or she's a queer character in it.

[26:58] Harrow: Was Sarah Silverman?

[27:00] Meghan Dixon Thesis: Yeah, I gotta I gotta watch that.

[27:02] Harrow: It's I really like that show.

[27:04] Meghan Dixon Thesis: Lizzie Kaplan is in it too, and she's fantastic.

[27:07] Harrow: And uh I'm always here for a Lizzie Kaplan.

[27:09] Meghan Dixon Thesis: And Alison Janney.

[27:10] Harrow: Alison Janney's role is incredible.

[27:12] Meghan Dixon Thesis: Um it's been on my list forever.

[27:15] Harrow: I need to watch it.

[27:17] Meghan Dixon Thesis: It's great.

[27:18] Harrow: Um okay, performances we've we don't we already talked about Kimberly Akimbo, I and Funny Girl.

[27:24] Meghan Dixon Thesis: The other one I just want to shout out is like, why do in It Takes Two from Into the Woods?

[27:30] Harrow: Why it's all for Milky White, right?

[27:34] Meghan Dixon Thesis: Yeah.

[27:36] Harrow: They should have done I don't anything else.

[27:39] Meghan Dixon Thesis: Like one of the most kind of boring numbers.

[27:44] Harrow: I was also confused by that.

[27:46] Meghan Dixon Thesis: Like, I know they're trying to feature the nominated folks, but the actress who plays Little Red was not featured, and she was nominated.

[27:56] Harrow: Um I don't know what song wouldn't you have picked if you had to choose.

[28:00] Meghan Dixon Thesis: I mean, I good I love a good Your Faults, uh Last Midnight mashup.

[28:06] Harrow: Uh I guess it's not a mashup, that's just how it goes.

[28:08] Meghan Dixon Thesis: But there are I guess there are a lot of spoilers in that number.

[28:12] Harrow: Um but yeah, I think that one's very fun and exciting and just so impressive to watch.

[28:20] Meghan Dixon Thesis: Mm-hmm.

[28:21] Harrow: But yeah, I guess it doesn't really feature the people that they wanted to feature.

[28:25] Meghan Dixon Thesis: What would you choose?

[28:26] Harrow: I feel like Last Midnight, right is like such a banger.

[28:30] Meghan Dixon Thesis: And um, I don't know, that's a tricky show now that I think about it to pull a song out of.

[28:36] Harrow: Like Agony's funny on its own, but neither one of those actors were were nominated.

[28:41] Meghan Dixon Thesis: Um I'm just thinking like from the tour perspective, if you're watching the Tonys, that show looked really small after what they did.

[28:50] Harrow: So maybe like part of the opening with the Yeah, actually, yeah, do the opening like um like Shucked did.

[28:57] Meghan Dixon Thesis: That's what it felt like they did.

[28:59] Harrow: Yeah, I mean the opening is like a 15 minute song, but like cut it down, maybe.

[29:05] Meghan Dixon Thesis: You could scale that back.

[29:06] Harrow: Yeah, um, to give a little more story building for sure.

[29:11] Meghan Dixon Thesis: Um, yeah, which I like the Shucked song reminded me a lot of the um great comment opening number.

[29:17] Harrow: They were like, Here's all these people and here's how they connect.

[29:20] Meghan Dixon Thesis: Yeah.

[29:22] Harrow: I really want to see Shucked, I'm excited.

[29:25] Meghan Dixon Thesis: And the corn kick line was great.

[29:27] Harrow: Um lots of good dad jokes.

[29:32] Meghan Dixon Thesis: Um I do have to say that uh my dad was texting me during the Tonys and when the Camelot performance happened, um he just texted me.

[29:43] Harrow: Everything is like Morse code, like it's all s like periods. And so he just texted me, Camelot, period, Lance Lot, period. Wow, what a voice. Period. So tall. Period. So I'm like, even my dad's crushing on Lance a lot. Bye for Jordan. He did sound great. Like they definitely I honestly thought the Camelot performance was really good. They really took the medley approach and gave you a little bit of everything. So I enjoyed it. I not really like yearning to see it, but I would see it maybe. We'll see. Yeah. It at least showed that there's really talented people doing the thing. So okay, so biggest disappointment. I did mention mine. Mine was a funny girl performance. Okay. So uh I've already complained about Leah Michelle.

Was there any any moments that were like disappointing or not quite what you wanted? I talked about Ain't No Mo. I was very sad they didn't get anything. And I was sad that K-pop, I mean, I was glad that they were at least nominated, that like they were remembered a little bit for score, and I think costumes or choreography. Um I would have loved for them to win something, but you know, they were there, they were kind of represented. Um I wish they had been nominated for best musical so they got to perform because that would have been incredible performance. I still can't believe like how the marketing messed up so badly that they couldn't get to the K-pop audience and kept that show open. Like something went wrong there. Like someone needs to write a paper about it or expose because something didn't connect about what went down.

[31:30] Meghan Dixon Thesis: Yeah, yeah, I'm very sad about that. Well, I mean, I hope Here Lies Love does better. I am excited to see that this summer. Um I read Ruthie Ann Miles did an interview with Claybell recently with Deep Tran, and they said that they offered her, she had the option to star in it, but because she was doing you know Light in the Piazza and Sweeney, it just like didn't really work out. Uh I am seeing Light in the Piazza next weekend, and I can't freaking wait. I am so excited. The promo videos look awesome. Oh, they sound so beautiful. I love this uh the actor who's playing Clara. I she's a baby, she's like still in college, but she's incredible.

[32:14] Harrow: Oh wow, what a break for her. That's awesome. Yeah, I looked at her Instagram and it was like the post like two before was like her performing at the Jimmy's. Of course.

[32:27] Meghan Dixon Thesis: The Jimmy to City Center pipeline. We love it. Um I just one more nerd about Light in the Piazza. They're like making it so the characters are actually Korean immigrants, and I'm so curious, like how that's gonna play out without changing anything. Did they rewrite any of the book or no?

[32:50] Harrow: I don't think so. And I don't know how they're gonna like make that clear, but they like speci in one of the interviews, they're specifically like Ruthie Ann Miles, the mom character, is a Korean immigrant, and like she's also trying to get her daughter to like assimilate, and that's why there's also these tensions with her of you know not behaving and being you know the proper girl daughter she wants her to be.

[33:16] Meghan Dixon Thesis: Oh wow, it's like um when they did the Deaf West Spring Awakening. You're like, this makes more sense when you open it up to more ideas of who could be in this show.

[33:25] Harrow: Yeah. Uh can't wait. Very cool, and like City Center, wow, they had a great night last night with or last night. They had a great night Tony night with parade and into the woods. Like who knows? Maybe we'll be talking about Light in the Piazza next year.

[33:42] Meghan Dixon Thesis: Oh Megan.

[33:45] Harrow: I don't know if I could take it.

[33:49] Meghan Dixon Thesis: I feel like you can get good hints based on how built out the set is when you go see it.

[33:54] Harrow: Yes.

[33:55] Meghan Dixon Thesis: Yes.

[33:57] Harrow: Okay. Very excited. I forgot the parade was a City Center show, too, until you just said this.

[34:02] Meghan Dixon Thesis: Yeah.

[34:03] Harrow: Yeah, and they won. So good for them.

[34:05] Meghan Dixon Thesis: Yeah. Um, but it felt like a robust Tony season this year. I think we're finally post-COVID where it doesn't seem like folks are like still waiting it out. I felt like people came in when they felt like their shows were ready, and I hope that continues next year and we have another like kind of rich, varied season.

[34:25] Harrow: Yeah.

[34:26] Meghan Dixon Thesis: More diversity. I don't know if anyone's looking for Tony Voters. Megan and I are would be happy to be on that committee.

[34:35] Harrow: Dreams.

[34:38] Meghan Dixon Thesis: Yes.

[34:40] Harrow: So this episode's Action of the Up is helping bring queer events to youth by supporting Drag Story Hour NYC. Drag Story Hour NYC produces storytelling and creative arts programs for children and teens presented by local drag artists in libraries, schools, and other community spaces in all five boroughs in New York City and virtually. Through fun and fabulous educational experiences, the programs celebrate gender diversity and all forms of difference to build empathy and give kids the confidence to express themselves however they feel comfortable.

[35:12] Meghan Dixon Thesis: You can call your local library and ask them to book a drag story hour event. DSH NYC is an approved vendor with all three public library systems in the city. Local public library branches can book events through the library's central administration. You can also call your New York City council member and ask them to allocate discretionary funding to Drag Queen Story Hour NYC. If your council member gives them funding, DSH programs can be free for your local schools and libraries.

[35:39] Harrow: We'll link to the information to find out who your council member is. When you call, tell them that you are a constituent and that you would like your council member to allocate discretionary funding to Drag Queen Story Hour NYC to bring the program to the district.

[35:52] Meghan Dixon Thesis: You can also volunteer with DSH by tabling at awareness events, working fundraising events, posting on social media, and helping with administrative work. We'll link to the volunteer list sign-up form.

[36:04] Harrow: And unfortunately, they no longer post their events publicly for safety purposes, but you can sign up for their mailing list to find out more about upcoming events. And we will link to that in the show notes, and you can visit dshnyc.org.

[36:18] Meghan Dixon Thesis: So Harrow, besides Light in the Piazza, what other queer things are you doing this summer?

[36:22] Harrow: I don't think that counts.

[36:24] Meghan Dixon Thesis: But it counts to me.

[36:27] Harrow: Because I am here and I am gonna get some joy out of it. Um I don't know. I'll probably go to Reese at least once.

[36:36] Meghan Dixon Thesis: Yeah, we gotta coordinate that. I gotta go too.

[36:38] Harrow: Yeah. I honestly don't know. I like have some pride plans for um the queer Liberation march. Um, and my friend is going to be in town, so we're gonna try and do some some queer stuff. That'll be nice.

[36:52] Meghan Dixon Thesis: Um, but yeah, I don't I don't have any solid plans at this point. What about you?

[36:57] Harrow: I just wanna take like queer restorative time, which is like me laying on the couch watching musical theater videos, I think.

[37:04] Meghan Dixon Thesis: Yeah, you've had such a busy year.

[37:07] Harrow: Yeah, I mean, we both have. It's school teacher life too, it's inevitably busy this time of year.

[37:13] Meghan Dixon Thesis: So looking forward to I love that pride kind of is the end of the school year though. It's going out with like a big celebratory moment, which is great.

[37:21] Harrow: Yeah, absolutely. I think one of the um things I would like to do this summer is my queer culture wreck, and that's visit Mary's Bar, which is a sister bar to Gingers that just opened, I think about a month ago.

[37:35] Meghan Dixon Thesis: Yeah, it's in that weird Greenpoint slash Williamsburg like gray area. But it is uh it is advertising itself as a queer Irish bar, which I don't think I've ever seen, like specifically said before.

[37:52] Harrow: So that's you know, that's for me.

[37:55] Meghan Dixon Thesis: And um, it's even more for me because on Wednesdays they are doing Irish sessions, which is basically when folks bring um folk instruments and you just jam, but it's all like queer artists, so like queer violin players, banjo players, accordion players, harpsichore players, I don't know, whatever instruments people bring to a jam. Um they also have karaoke nights, they're doing a lot of like dike beer events, so it looks like a nice like casual queer space.

[38:26] Harrow: Like I'm not seeing a lot of like go go dancing happening at Mary's bar.

[38:31] Meghan Dixon Thesis: So you can wear like comfy clothes and enjoy some banjo and have a beer and maybe sing karaoke, and that sounds like a dream to me.

[38:39] Harrow: Yeah, that's so perfect for you.

[38:42] Meghan Dixon Thesis: That's awesome. How about I I I guess you're probably not gonna say The Ultimatum, but maybe The Ultimatum is your queer culture.

[38:49] Harrow: Oh my god, yeah. I should probably I had something else, but yeah, The Ultimatum. I mean, if you haven't been watching it, what are I mean, you're not in the queer.

[38:56] Meghan Dixon Thesis: Yeah, what are you doing?

[38:57] Harrow: I mean, but it's so I mean, it's horrible. It is uh the people are are upsetting the the concept, so the concept blows my mind. It's like it's terrible. Five couples who one of them has given their partner an ultimatum to propose to them, or it's over, basically.

[39:18] Meghan Dixon Thesis: So ultimatums always are a good healthy thing in relationships, right?

[39:22] Harrow: And then they go on this reality show where they date everyone else in this group of ten people, decide on a partner to go off and live with for three weeks, someone who's not their original partner, and then they decide at the end of it if they're gonna get engaged to the new person who they just met four weeks ago, or get engaged to their original partner.

[39:44] Meghan Dixon Thesis: Like I this what what uh chaos it's such queer chaos. I mean, originally it was straight chaos, but now it's queer chaos.

[39:52] Harrow: Yeah, um, but it's you know, this is the queer trash we've been dreaming of, and I was very into it. Um there is some the reunion has some problematic aspects with like with some domestic violence.

[40:06] Meghan Dixon Thesis: Um so if you are it's it's not shown, but it's discussed.

[40:10] Harrow: Um and someone is like very triggered by it. So if you are if that's something you want to avoid, don't watch the last episode.

[40:19] Meghan Dixon Thesis: Um and I think there's a lot of discourse. And it's not it's not um like I don't know how to say this. It it's like low key supported by some of the people on the show.

[40:32] Harrow: So it's very troubling, and there's nothing, you know, afterwards or before saying like if you're experiencing domestic violence, instead you see cast members feeling bad for the abuser.

[40:42] Meghan Dixon Thesis: So that is uh troubling.

[40:44] Harrow: Yeah, definitely. And I think there's a lot of discourse that I've seen, at least on like TikTok and Instagram, and like some of the the news public like Autostraddle and them have talked about how troubling that is and how the producers should be held accountable for it.

[40:58] Meghan Dixon Thesis: Mm-hmm.

[40:59] Harrow: Yeah, I would say part of my queer call to wreck should be reading Carmen Machado's writings on The Ultimatum because um she's really been I don't know, changing the way that I'm viewing it too of like who's the quote unquote heroes and villains of the show.

[41:14] Meghan Dixon Thesis: Yes.

[41:15] Harrow: Um I just wish it wasn't so boring. I wish they talked about stuff that wasn't like just hypothetical relationship jargon.

[41:23] Meghan Dixon Thesis: I wish I knew like anyone's job or like where anyone lived or like any detail about them besides like if they're there for the right reasons.

[41:31] Harrow: Yeah, anyone's values besides they just want to get married.

[41:34] Meghan Dixon Thesis: Yeah, it's like really like cardboard people, but it is queer trash and we always want queer trash, so I can't get too picky with it.

[41:45] Harrow: I mean Mal's great. I like Mal, but um I don't know if I really like anyone on that show though.

[41:52] Meghan Dixon Thesis: Yeah.

[41:53] Harrow: I Yoli was my favorite until the f the reunion and until she was like, Oh, poor Mildred.

[42:00] Meghan Dixon Thesis: Yeah.

[42:00] Harrow: And it seems like she was really shady about what she told Mal and well, like what was happening with Xander.

[42:06] Meghan Dixon Thesis: About Hawaii.

[42:07] Harrow: Yeah.

[42:09] Meghan Dixon Thesis: Yeah.

[42:10] Harrow: So I like how Vanessa's like, You gonna talk about Hawaii? And they're like, What do you mean Hawaii? And they're like, oh, that little thing.

[42:16] Meghan Dixon Thesis: Yeah, yeah, Hawaii.

[42:18] Harrow: It's like you guys are terrible.

[42:20] Meghan Dixon Thesis: Trash.

[42:21] Harrow: Yeah.

[42:22] Meghan Dixon Thesis: I thought Lexi was very pretty, but she's a baby.

[42:26] Harrow: Oh yeah. Lexi's hot. And if for someone to say like you're not here for the right reasons, like go look at her Instagram and tell me why she was there.

[42:34] Meghan Dixon Thesis: Like I haven't looked at her Instagram, but I believe.

[42:37] Harrow: Oh, that's a dark hole.

[42:39] Meghan Dixon Thesis: Like you're never getting out of there.

[42:42] Harrow: She's she's serving up exactly what you want.

[42:45] Meghan Dixon Thesis: Yeah, it's yeah. Interesting.

[42:47] Harrow: Um I feel like Ozzie and Sam are the only people that I would actually meet in the real.

[42:53] Meghan Dixon Thesis: Everyone else seems like fantasy characters.

[42:57] Harrow: I was pretty mortified at how Aussie reacted to any kind of conflict, but I hope that Aussie has worked on that.

[43:06] Meghan Dixon Thesis: I know.

[43:07] Harrow: Like literally running away from everything.

[43:09] Meghan Dixon Thesis: Yeah.

[43:10] Harrow: But at least they had a real conversation with someone on the show about like what they're going through, which is not true for most of the characters.

[43:19] Meghan Dixon Thesis: I'm saying characters, they're not real.

[43:23] Harrow: That's legit. If you you probably watched it, but if not, watch it.

[43:27] Meghan Dixon Thesis: Well, this is our last episode before we go on to summer hiatus.

[43:32] Harrow: Yeah.

[43:33] Meghan Dixon Thesis: So I hope everyone enjoys Pride. Does some queer, relaxing summer activities, and we will see you in the fall.

[43:41] Harrow: Yeah, fall theater season.

[43:44] Meghan Dixon Thesis: Okay.

[43:44] Harrow: Bye.

[43:45] Meghan Dixon Thesis: Hi, queers.

[43:46] Harrow: See ya.

[43:50] Meghan Dixon Thesis: Thanks for listening. If you like, please rate and review us and share us with your friends. So excited to hear your queer culture recommendations or any of your ideas on how we could queer the canon. You can call us.

[44:02] Harrow: Yes, actually call us and leave us a voicemail at 845-445-9251 or send us an email at thesisonjoan at gmail.com.

[44:14] Meghan Dixon Thesis: Until next time, keep it queer.

[44:17] Harrow: Not that it'd be that hard for y'all to do.

[44:23] Meghan Dixon Thesis: Alright, hey Harrow.

[44:24] Harrow: Hey Meghan.

[44:26] Meghan Dixon Thesis: Should we do the Tony's happened?

[44:29] Harrow: Oh yeah, we should do the cold open.