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[0:02] Kathleen Elva: I'm also Elise.

[0:04] Jose: And I'm Kathleen Elva.

[0:05] Kathleen Elva: And we are your token theater friends.

[0:08] Jose: Thank you so much for joining us.

[0:10] Kathleen Elva: If you're new here, we are basically a community of BIPOC friends and performance lovers who get together every week to talk about the things that we've seen and that we have loved.

[0:23] Jose: If you are not new, thank you for joining us again.

[0:26] Kathleen Elva: And if you happen to be new or not new and aren't yet our contributor on Patreon, we would appreciate if you can join us.

[0:35] Jose: We have exclusive content, we have bonus Q&As, we have a weekly newsletter with recommendations, and we have a lot of goodies for you.

[0:44] Kathleen Elva: So you can join for a buck a month, which is less you can't buy anything with a buck this place, right, Kathleen?

[0:50] Jose: The dollar store, that's it.

[0:52] Kathleen Elva: Which surprisingly has a lot of really cool stuff.

[0:55] Jose: I would recommend going.

[0:57] Kathleen Elva: So after you go to the dollar store, come back to Patreon and join our friend zone.

[1:02] Jose: Um Kathleen, happy Valentine's Day week.

[1:06] Kathleen Elva: Is that a thing?

[1:07] Jose: Um I'm not sure.

[1:09] Kathleen Elva: We are obviously gonna make it one though, so thank you.

[1:13] Jose: Same to you, Kathleen.

[1:14] Kathleen Elva: Well, thank you so much.

[1:16] Jose: I am um natural bachelor, but you are not a bachelorette.

[1:21] Kathleen Elva: So do you have any romantic plans for the weekend?

[1:25] Jose: Uh potentially gonna see a drive-in movie with Mabo Thang.

[1:31] Kathleen Elva: Um, it's unclear though, because I have never seen Coming to America, and it is like peak black culture, and my boyfriend is part black, and I definitely need to respect that and watch it with him sometime.

[1:48] Jose: And I suggested we potentially watch that this weekend.

[1:51] Kathleen Elva: So that or drive-in movie.

[1:55] Jose: Wait a second. So I thought they were showing that at the drive-in, no?

[1:56] Kathleen Elva: Are they? Oh, I thought that's what I... maybe I need to combine these two ideas and figure that out. So you know what I'm doing after this.

[1:56] Jose: Why were you gonna go see at the drive-in? Just whatever was playing?

[1:56] Kathleen Elva: Um, what did you... oh, we were gonna look at Minari, but I wasn't... yeah, I'm so... I really want to watch that because of everything going on with Steven Yeun and the Oscars in general, but I was like, is Minari Valentine's Day material? I don't know. So, and I don't know if I want to go out in general. Um, I kind of like the... oh, by the way, I moved out of my parents' home, so that is also why I was suggesting we stay at home because it's kind of like we didn't really have the privacy a young couple wishes to have outside of my parents' home. So it would have been nice or it would be nice to stay at home and just hang out.

[1:56] Jose: I think that is so exciting, congratulations!

[1:56] Kathleen Elva: Thank you, thank you. It's a bold thing to move and to leave your parents' home, so I'm very proud of you. I'm very excited about it.

[3:16] Jose: Oh, thank you. I miss them. Actually, we FaceTime every day, like three times a day.

[3:22] Kathleen Elva: I mean, they didn't move like that far away, right? They're just really dramatic.

[3:22] Jose: They're just really dramatic. It's really sad.

[3:32] Kathleen Elva: I hope you send them some flowers or some chocolate or something.

[3:35] Jose: Yeah.

[3:35] Kathleen Elva: Um, well, that's very sweet. I hope you know everything turns out beautifully. Do you have like... are you like a flowers or candy kind of person?

[3:44] Jose: I honestly never really received flowers or candies from boyfriends up until my boyfriend, um, who we're going on like three years this year, and um, I like the gesture. I've never really been like, oh my god, I need flowers. Um, but when he surprises me with flowers, it's always super sweet. Um, what about you?

[4:08] Kathleen Elva: I have nothing planned, Jose. Nothing.

[4:11] Jose: Wait, wait, let me ask you. Are you gonna have a socially distanced like friends' Valentine's?

[4:19] Kathleen Elva: I know Galentine's is a thing. I'm actually doing it also with my friends.

[4:24] Jose: So I think all my friends who are um single are probably too depressed and too everything because of everything that I don't... I don't actually like... you know, in the past I have done uh Galentine's things with my friends, especially with my friend Andy. So if you're listening, hey Andy, um a few times, yeah.

[4:47] Kathleen Elva: Hey Andy! Like a few years in a row, like we would go to um the Alamo in Brooklyn would do Moulin Rouge, like an interactive like Moulin Rouge pretty thing, and like they would give you props, and you would throw like shit.

[4:59] Jose: That's like an annual thing you would do, yeah.

[5:03] Kathleen Elva: That's what I fuss.

[5:03] Jose: Oh, I love that. And because we're always single. And then last year, um, I don't remember what we did. We... I think we went to like a concert, like Carnegie Hall or something like that.

[5:16] Kathleen Elva: Um, yeah, so it's like... and I don't know, it's like so strange that uh... yeah, no plans, Kathleen. I'm probably gonna be doing a workout with like my Zoom people.

[5:26] Jose: That's a great plan.

[5:28] Kathleen Elva: Get fit, man.

[5:29] Jose: Get fit for your next Valentine's.

[5:29] Kathleen Elva: Right. We will theoretically be out and about, fingers crossed.

[5:33] Jose: Fingers crossed, but we'll see. But I always love... I mean, I really like the holiday. I don't... I don't know if it's um a cultural thing also because in Spanish, at least in Latin America, like they would celebrate, you know, it wasn't like as focused on like couples, and they would encourage people, like it's called like the day of love and friendship, which I think is bullshit.

[6:01] Kathleen Elva: So the single people will look better.

[6:05] Jose: I thought you were gonna be like, I love that.

[6:08] Kathleen Elva: I'll take it though.

[6:09] Jose: I mean, I'll take it. Uh, but we'll see. Uh Kathleen, like when we talked about when you know last time you were here, and we talked about shows that we were gonna be talking about, and we were both like, we're gonna make sure not to pick the pressing love things because it's gonna be Valentine's.

[6:26] Kathleen Elva: And what did we end up doing, Jose?

[6:29] Jose: We did the exact opposite, like we actually went further like negative of like love.

[6:36] Kathleen Elva: I don't know. It's like dark. It looks really dark. Do you want to tell our listeners what shows we're gonna be talking about?

[6:44] Jose: Yes, we'll be talking about Malcolm and Marie.

[6:47] Kathleen Elva: It's on Netflix as well as The Gay Divorcees album.

[6:53] Jose: That... when was this released, Kathleen?

[6:55] Kathleen Elva: I'm not sure. I think a couple of weeks ago or something like that. Uh, but we're gonna figure that out. Like it's gonna be in the show notes anyway, so don't worry about the data.

[7:02] Jose: Okay, okay, got it. Um, Kathleen, before we dive into like really dark bad romance territory, um let's like try to like, I don't know, like pre-cleanse our palettes, I guess, or whatever. Not because the shows are better, I think, but because you know the sad romance part. But uh, do you have a favorite like songs from a musical? Like, do you have a favorite romantic like experience like at shows or theater or like performance related before we dive into like, you know, divorce?

[7:35] Kathleen Elva: Um, I recently or within the pandemic, I started listening to Hadestown, and um that's like the first song. Let me look up... oh my god, I'm so awful with the song names. Do you know what song I'm talking about?

[7:51] Jose: There's like 30 songs.

[7:52] Kathleen Elva: Yeah, there's like a thousand songs, Jose.

[7:55] Jose: Um, with something about me.

[8:02] Kathleen Elva: Yes. What's it called?

[8:06] Jose: Rescue Me.

[8:07] Kathleen Elva: No, that's not right. Um, it was obviously when um Orpheus and uh... I'm singing it and I don't know the name. Uh, uh, uh, uh, okay, we're gonna go back to that, but it's obviously when Orpheus and um Eurydice fall in love, and I am in love with their voices, and I was listening to it in the car with my boyfriend, who I also really love.

[8:37] Kathleen Elva: And um, it really made me think recently about how much I want to go to a show with him because he also really enjoys theater, and that's not something I ever really shared with someone I was talking to.

[8:50] Jose: So it makes me really happy that we at least have that shared interest um in theater and love.

[8:58] Kathleen Elva: This is too perfect. I love it so much. Wait, it's not "Wait for Me," right?

[9:03] Jose: It could be "Wait for Me."

[9:04] Kathleen Elva: I really want to like put you on pause and like let me listen to it. But like I think it is "Wait for Me."

[9:10] Jose: Yeah, I'm not even gonna try to sing it, but I mean I might as well.

[9:13] Kathleen Elva: No, I won't. Uh, but it was... yeah, it's like "Wait for Me." And there's a beautiful line. Okay, no, I'm sorry. It is actually not beautiful, but I thought it was so witty when um he's like, I'm a musician, I play the lyre, and then she goes, a lyre, and it's just so good.

[9:33] Jose: Oh, so good.

[9:34] Kathleen Elva: I don't be like, well, because my favorite romantic thing about theater is The Bridges of Madison County, the musical, and it's also a very sad, depressing musical about love. So might as well, I don't know, Kathleen.

[9:49] Jose: I think it's a single person kind of thing.

[9:55] Kathleen Elva: I was gonna... it's funny because um I was going to ask you about... or it's interesting that you gravitate towards these kinds of productions, at least obviously you have a range, but I'm saying from the few times that we've talked, um, but you aren't like a cynic about Valentine's Day. So I love that about you, you know.

[10:15] Jose: Or like... yeah, sorry, continue, continue talking about it.

[10:20] Kathleen Elva: You're basically saying that I should be more bitter than what I actually...

[10:28] Jose: All right, that's very sweet, Kathleen. Thank you. I know what you mean. Um, yeah, all my favorite love stories are like really, really, really, really tragic. So might as well do this, Kathleen. Do you want to tell us what Malcolm and Marie is about and all that?

[10:43] Kathleen Elva: Yes. So um, Malcolm and Marie is this black and white...

[10:49] Jose: Okay, on... let me tell you, on Wikipedia, it is listed as a romantic drama.

[10:55] Kathleen Elva: And Jose, does this movie come off as romantic to you?

[11:01] Jose: Hell no.

[11:03] Kathleen Elva: No.

[11:04] Jose: I was... I... this is also my bad, everyone. Um, because I really wish I didn't choose this movie to speak with Jose today in honor of our Valentine's Day in preparation for our Valentine's Day.

[11:19] Kathleen Elva: Um, uh for context, Jose and I spoke last time about The Light, a um play production, which has very similar vibes to Malcolm and Marie in the sense that it's... it takes place on one night, it's between a couple.

[11:39] Jose: Uh, however, not the same tone. Tones slash like the love that is shown um to each other throughout the entire thing, product or throughout the entire productions are completely different.

[11:56] Kathleen Elva: Um, Malcolm and Marie in one word was exhausting. I did want to watch it because I'm a fan of Zendaya.

[12:04] Jose: Um, and the director, who I believe is also the writer of the movie, is um the same director who does Euphoria. His name is Sam Levinson.

[12:13] Kathleen Elva: And uh I've watched Euphoria as well, and I really like it.

[12:19] Jose: Um, that show is also really dark, so I should have expected this.

[12:19] Kathleen Elva: I should have expected it being dark. Um, I didn't also read reviews, so there's probably a lot of like layers to why it was shot in black and white, and the story behind I'm sure Adam Levinson's life, because a lot of what is being told um from Malcolm's point of view is like his life as a director and writer and his influences on life.

[12:49] Jose: Um, which are like if this is a portrayal of Adam Levinson's life, is really dark for him to have put that into um film.

[13:02] Kathleen Elva: But um as someone who is in, I want to say a healthy relationship, although it's so hard to watch them just being so awful to each other.

[13:13] Jose: And I know that that is a reality for some people.

[13:17] Kathleen Elva: Um yeah, what did you... how did you feel, Jose?

[13:21] Jose: Well, I had a lot of like... I'm gonna say issues with this movie.

[13:25] Kathleen Elva: Um, I've actually never seen Euphoria.

[13:28] Jose: Um, and because yeah, I don't feel I'm emotionally like prepared for that show because it's supposed to be very dark.

[13:35] Kathleen Elva: So I've been like, you know, taking a break from going too dark into art.

[13:41] Jose: Um, sorry for going into art that's too dark.

[13:46] Kathleen Elva: Um, for obvious reasons again.

[13:48] Jose: So you know, I don't... I guess my major issue with this movie was especially because it talks about The Light, right?

[13:57] Kathleen Elva: Yes, and Lloyd A. Webb is uh black women and Sam Levinson is a white man.

[14:04] Jose: So if we were to compare both pieces, for instance.

[14:10] Kathleen Elva: The characters in Malcolm and Marie don't sound like real people.

[14:15] Jose: They know they're talking about... they're more like concepts, I feel like Sam kind of like sees two people as concepts, and you never get a sense of why these people uh were or are in love, like there's nothing, it's just poison that they throw at each other constantly, and not that that's not, you know, how a relationship can go, right?

[14:42] Jose: But you never get a sense of did you did you watch that movie, uh, Locked Down? Is that what it's called? The Anne Hathaway one on HBO Max?

[14:52] Kathleen Elva: I did not, I have not seen that yet.

[14:54] Jose: It's equally terrible. Um, for me to compare it or no, no, no. I mean, like I don't know, it's just this thing where it's surprising because you know, one thinks about everything that, uh, you know, the potential that there's for because like both movies were produced during lockdown, right? Um, one thinks about like the beauty that can happen just within two characters, right? Like we see in The Light, and then this two movies by straight white men is Sam Levinson straight, I don't know, but anyway, but this two movies by white men are so almost like, you know how there's always like a, you know, like in movies about like theater, and then there's this like cool play, and there's like incredible playwright, and then they show a scene from this fake play, and it's always like really trite and like silly. That's what, yeah, that's what Malcolm is.

[15:58] Kathleen Elva: No, oh my gosh. Like their monologues were just so heavy.

[16:02] Jose: Yeah, like going back to what you were saying about their work, they weren't realistic. I was, I thought about a lot of very like trivial things as well. Like, are you guys really having like conversations like this after a premiere night? Like 1 a.m.? And then also, um, this was theoretically this Malcolm's like, um, directorial debut, right? And he lived in such a beautiful home. I was so confused. Like, okay, those were really like simplistic things. But, um, yeah, going back to the, uh, your comment about them not just being realistic, and it in a way was really funny because I felt like that's obviously what he was trying to do, you know. Like, they, the characters, them like, uh, Sam Levinson, the characters themselves are talking about how it's very meta in a way, like the characters in his movie are a compilation of people, and it's kind of like I, I gathered that that was the commentary he was making about like those two characters themselves, um, for, uh, uh, Adam Levinson.

But it was just, yeah, I don't like what was, what was your takeaway from it? Like it was, you know, like it was just really heavy, and I didn't even really believe in the this quote unquote sweep moments that they were supposed to have. Like, I just, what did you guys actually like about each other? I was, you know, because she, she repeatedly talks about how she loves him and that they love each other, but like we don't get to see that in the way that, and again, I don't want to keep comparing it to The Light, but because we did talk about it last time, and it was just such an opposite, like the way I watched, or when I watched The Light, my feelings about it were of course conflicted regarding what they were talking about, but I believed in them as a couple.

I wanted them to carry on moving for, you know, um, after watching it, and then Malcolm and Marie though, the ending is also one of those similar again to The Light, like you just don't know what happens to them. But I was like, please break up, like or else like I don't care, I'm done with this movie.

[18:07] Kathleen Elva: I'm gonna exactly, exactly.

[18:28] Jose: So it's kind of like creepy for me to imagine this white guy almost like playing like God or like playing like his little kid, having like a black man and a black woman talk about race, for instance, with things that he, a white man, came up with. Um, I found, I don't know, like I don't know. I was mostly like troubled by that more than anything else. I'm like, I mean, I get it that the actress think that he's like a really good director, and like I'm not gonna say, you know, it's really hard to talk about this and like pretend like the actors have no agency, especially when they're like people like Zendaya and, uh, Washington, right? I mean, it's not like I felt conflicted about that as well because you know, like what was going they made choices, obviously, and she obviously works with him on Euphoria, so I'm sure she trusted his vision on some level, but I agree.

[19:27] Kathleen Elva: Um, I don't think it landed in the way that they all had hoped. Um, yeah, I don't know. I mean, I wish we were in a world where people where we wouldn't even have to talk about this, you know, like where anyone can make art about everyone, but we're not in the world.

[19:45] Jose: So I find it really troubling that this is what we got, uh, with this movie, which makes me sound like I don't know, like a makes me feel like almost like a conservative way. You know, I don't know if that makes sense.

[20:00] Kathleen Elva: No, I, I think it goes back to also the question about like who can make certain art, right? It's like art is supposed to be interpreted by anyone slash made by anyone, but we now know that that's not necessarily true, you know, like you or you have to take everything with a grain of salt, I can't speak, um, in that way, you know, because yeah.

[20:25] Jose: I will say though that you know, for what it is and for what the dialogues were, the chemistry between both actors was really great. I mean, I could almost like imagine them. You know what this movie felt like, to be honest, it felt like a perfume ad as a reaction to like, um, the Black Lives Matter movement, you know, like when all the companies started like suddenly like being like, oh, like, oh, we want to do a suggest. Oh my god, actors and models, and like they were kind of like, let's do it with black people.

[21:00] Kathleen Elva: Yeah, they're trying to make up for like what, 400 years of racism.

[21:04] Jose: Um, hit that on the nail. And this to me felt like that.

[21:10] Kathleen Elva: Yeah, I felt like it was missing like a, you know, like a Malcolm and Marie by Dior or something like that.

[21:18] Jose: No, I will say though Zendaya's costumes, costume, I guess her dress is so beautiful.

[21:24] Kathleen Elva: It was, and she's, she's gorgeous in general. You know.

[21:28] Jose: Okay, another thing, another question I also had. It's also one of those things where, um, movies slash plays, theater that are done in one scene, slash one night, sorry, not one scene, um, are always so interesting because it's like some can get it, some do it so well. And in this particular movie, I was like, how is she wearing a dress for half of the film? Like she, if you went to a premiere party, wouldn't like the first thing you did when you got home is rip off the clothes you were in because I was just like, how is she still wearing that dress?

[22:00] Kathleen Elva: Like didn't she even almost also have the heels on for like most of the time?

[22:06] Jose: I think so. I don't know, super minor, but I was just like realistically, sh I would not be wearing that.

[22:11] Kathleen Elva: Yeah, but those, you know, those are not minor things. Uh, and that's so interesting because like there's also, you know, we haven't talked about the fact that, uh, you know, the male character is always trying to go down on her. Like she's wanting to like talk about whatever, you know, something serious. And he's always trying to like go in eat her out in the kitchen, everywhere. And what you're saying right now, this whole thing, where I even thought that because I remember like the first scene is like they walk into the house, she has her heels on, her dress on, and she goes to the bathroom. And I'm like, girl, like, uh, I, I, you know, no. I mean, I, I know better. Like even I take everything off when I walk home after like a long night out.

[22:54] Jose: Anyway, uh, so it also felt to me like there was this like objectifying of her constantly. Where it's like I, sorry, going off of that, it's also in the context being talked about in the film that like Malcolm's character is sexualized in a scene when you know she didn't have to be. And now that we're talking about it, I'm like, yeah, I mean, not that they're overly sexualizing Zendaya, but it's just why is she not in comfortable clothing? You know, like I mean, of course, right? It's this, it's a movie, and they are sexy people. So I'm sure that's that added to why she had to be in a dress for most of the movie, but it's just funny that it's mentioned in the movie, like yeah, yeah.

[23:43] Kathleen Elva: It's almost like look how witty I am. I'm like showing the things that I'm, you know, it's like what is that thing on Twitter, on Twitter, Kathleen? Uh, retreats are not endorsements, and this is like a retreat and an endorsement, I feel.

[23:57] Jose: So yeah, definitely not, not minor things at all. Uh, but, uh, I guess if you want to watch Malcolm and Marie, it's available on Netflix, and uh, it's there if you want to go see it, it's there.

[24:10] Kathleen Elva: I really also liked The Light again.

[24:15] Jose: The Light is gone.

[24:17] Kathleen Elva: I know, I know. I think that they're gonna bring it back. I mean, if they do, like someone needs to let us know, and we're gonna like plug that episode again.

[24:24] Jose: Yes.

[24:25] Kathleen Elva: Um, that show's like really beautiful.

[24:27] Jose: Um, let's talk about our second depressing show of the episode. And it's The Gay Divorcees, and it's basically, uh, a band of real life, uh, queer men and women got together. Uh, because they all happened to be queer, and they were married at some point, and now they're all divorced.

[24:48] Kathleen Elva: So composer Ethan Philbrick had the idea of having all of them come together and create a visual album about what it's like to be gay and divorced.

[25:00] Jose: So it's, um, I forgot how many songs it is. One second. It's a dozen songs.

[25:08] Kathleen Elva: Um, bookended by a song called, I don't know why I'm laughing. I sound like a terrible person, but a song called You Can Leave What Is In Poor King, uh, by Ethan Philbrick.

[25:19] Jose: And then in between, we get 10 songs, uh, from different composers and writers about their experiences getting divorced. And I don't think this is as depressing as it sounds, right, Kathleen?

[25:34] Kathleen Elva: Maybe that's my thing. I feel like I felt like the therapy that each of these band members got from putting their music out there. Does that make sense?

[25:47] Jose: Like it was at the end of it, I was like, this had to have been so therapeutic for them. Like, I don't know, is, is yeah, right? Like it, I don't know.

[26:14] Kathleen Elva: I actually hadn't really thought about it so much. You know, it's really strange to just like, but less than five years ago, I think it was when, uh, DOMA was repealed, right?

[26:26] Jose: Um, is that what it was called?

[26:29] Kathleen Elva: Yeah. And you know, same-sex couples could get married all over the country, right? Like at the federal level, it was legal for them. And that was just so recent. And I had never thought about it. And we are getting a wave, you know, the first wave, like gay divorced people.

[26:47] Jose: Yeah.

[26:48] Kathleen Elva: Yeah, that is, yeah. I was just gonna comment on how, like, yeah, uh, now that I'm entering almost my 30s, I'm almost 28, but um, it's interesting seeing like television now versus remembering television, you know, when I was younger, and how there it's so much more normalized, you know.

[27:09] Jose: But you're, you're right, like it is, we are experiencing people who are, and like on TV now, you also see like married gay people, like divorced gay people, and back then it wasn't such a thing. So I'm really like not to say I'm happy about it, like, but it's, it's, it's great that the generations, the younger generations are just like it's hopefully more normalized for them that it wasn't a thing back then that gay people couldn't be married or couldn't get married.

[27:36] Kathleen Elva: Yeah, now I'm thinking about it like an old person because what I'm thinking is you know, straight people had thousands of years of straight marriage.

[27:43] Jose: I know.

[27:44] Kathleen Elva: Uh, before they started getting divorced, maybe not thousands, maybe hundreds.

[27:49] Jose: Uh, because they started getting divorced with like Henry the Eighth showed up, right?

[27:54] Kathleen Elva: Uh, basically.

[27:56] Jose: I'm just making up shit. But you know, like they had like at least a couple hundred years to get used to the idea of marriage, right? Before getting divorced. Meanwhile, same-sex couples have only had less than a decade to achieve marriage and then start getting divorced.

[28:12] Kathleen Elva: And that's what I loved so much about this project that it's, I feel like it's very humble, even to remember when like, uh, same-sex marriage was, marriage equality is the right term. Sorry, now it's not like an old fork when marriage equality was approved all over the country. Um, I feel like so many queer couples felt like they had to be perfect, like they put on themselves, um, yeah, because they were, they had to prove something. It's the same, maybe not the same, but it's like I think something that we could compare it to is almost like imposter syndrome, right? And like we don't deserve this, so we have to be perfect, like we can't feel we can't be who we are, like we can't fail.

[28:59] Jose: And that's what I found so beautiful about this project, and it was really heartbreaking at parts, you know, at times.

[29:08] Kathleen Elva: Uh it was I was gonna say that.

[29:13] Jose: Oh, sorry, go ahead.

[29:14] Kathleen Elva: No, it's fine, but also, you know, as an album, it really works great.

[29:18] Jose: And since you've been listening to it all day, can you can you get into that a little bit? Like, what did you love about the news?

[29:25] Kathleen Elva: Okay, um, visually, let me just say, and this is like such a throwaway, but visually, this totally reminded me of like karaoke.

[29:36] Jose: Okay, I hope it didn't remind you of it too.

[29:39] Kathleen Elva: And like I I could I could be speaking like too broadly about the Filipino American experience, but Filipinos love karaoke, and um, especially like with my parents, um, they listened to a lot of like folky 60s, and like I don't know if you know the band Bread.

[30:01] Jose: That's like a parent.

[30:05] Kathleen Elva: I'm so like I'm so oldie, old, like old part in that way because like I do know a lot of like old old like old folky songs, and I I definitely got that vibe from like a few of the songs, especially the intro and reprise of you can leave what isn't working. So I was watching the screen, and I was there's obviously subtitles or you know, like um lyrics, so I'm just like, oh my gosh, I want to sing along so bad. It's like reminding me of karaoke with my dad, which is like not what this album is about, obviously. But um, I just felt really nostalgic for a second when I was listening to it. Um, but yeah, there's definitely uh a few songs that spoke to me, and I maybe spoke is too much of a strong word. I just meant like they really stood out. Um, red flags by Julia Steinmetz, it's number six on the soundtrack. That one in particular, okay.

[30:51] Jose: I'm saying, like, as a straight like girl woman, this is still relatable, you know, like red flags are still relatable. And oh man, so the song is essentially um people speaking about their experiences, like immediate red flags, right? And some of them were like very what is it, like on the surface, just kind of like funny, and then others were so dark and deep and sad and like it was the range there was just do you remember a couple of the red flags that they mentioned that struck?

[31:27] Kathleen Elva: Oh yeah, there were there were a couple, like one, the you didn't look my butthole, that one cracked me up. That one I was like, oh no, get out. Like, yes, red flag, 100%. Another one was uh this girl who said that she cried when she listened, like she cried in her bathroom listening to Indy R. And like I love Indiari. That was really sad. That one like stood out to me. What were a couple for you?

[31:52] Jose: I like honestly, if you remember, because I I was listening to I was like nodding, and then I was like, Oh my god. Uh I was really struck by one that really horrified me was when someone says, uh, when I realized that I was shaking, but the dog was also shaking.

[32:09] Kathleen Elva: Um from fear, probably.

[32:12] Jose: Yeah. I'm like, holy shit. But the one that like really stuck with me was and this this shows how not monolithic the experience of queer love is, right? Like, you know, like we are living as a queer person. I'm gonna speak for all queer people, Kathleen.

[32:28] Kathleen Elva: No, but as a as a queer person, um, it's the same as with people of color, right? Like people assume that we're like a monolith, right?

[32:36] Jose: And like we all experience the same things in the same way. And this song just really like reveals the breath of humanity.

[32:47] Kathleen Elva: Uh, because people are so different, you know, in so many ways.

[32:51] Jose: Like I was struck by the contrast when someone says, um one of the red flags was when he realized his partner never cried.

[33:00] Kathleen Elva: And then a few red flags later, a woman says that her partner cried all the time.

[33:06] Jose: Yeah, yeah. No, I and that the order of the red flags also was very well done and obviously intentional.

[33:13] Kathleen Elva: So, dude, props to this song for like giving me all the feels.

[33:18] Jose: It was so terrific. And I love that you mentioned that because like there's this like beautiful sequence. Like this is why this is such a great album, I think. There's this beautiful sequence.

[33:26] Kathleen Elva: It starts with uh us both by Paulie Galt, which is kind of like a folksy song, and then it goes into Futrix Husband by Ita Sageb, which is like remember like an electronica like beat

[33:26] Jose: Yeah, it was electronic. Which I don't do you think that was intentional because of future, like that's that's what I'm gathering.

[33:44] Kathleen Elva: I could be being really extra right now, but I mean I don't think it's I don't think it's extra, like uh at all. Because like then it goes back to another song by Pauly Galt called Better Than Maybe, which is kind of like a 90s like dancy song, and then it goes into red flags, and it's kind of like almost this telling a story, yeah, totally telling a story, but it's also like this young divorcees, right?

[34:08] Jose: Also telling a story using genres from music that make them happy.

[34:14] Kathleen Elva: And that's what I meant about like it being therapeutic, I'm sure, for them to have made them because clearly they're really good at this, you know, like song making.

[34:23] Jose: Oh, sorry, not divorcing, if that wasn't clear, but um, yeah, writing songs and making music.

[34:30] Kathleen Elva: I it was fantastic, I thought.

[34:33] Jose: Yeah, did you have like any other moments that you loved in the album? Because I want to I want to shout out a couple like songs, sorry, a couple lines from um I did my job by Ida Segeb.

[34:43] Kathleen Elva: When they're like, show me a queer that isn't codependent.

[34:46] Jose: I almost like had to do like a spit take. It was so hilarious.

[34:51] Kathleen Elva: And then they're like, uh my ex should send me flowers on Mother's Day, and I just like couldn't stop laughing. It's like so many of the songs are almost this like tiny monologues.

[35:02] Jose: Uh, and you can imagine like entire worlds in each song, basically.

[35:07] Kathleen Elva: Yeah, yeah. Um, I know I really liked Beyond Red Flags, which is like the SATA song, probably um my ex's recipes was good.

[35:19] Jose: Uh it was the the comment about you know, obviously missing your mom's food.

[35:25] Kathleen Elva: I forgot exactly what he says, but it's just it's so telling of like when you get into relationshipslash you know, you know, intimacy with people and their extended families.

[35:36] Jose: It's so funny because my um boyfriend is really close to my cousins.

[35:41] Kathleen Elva: And um, one cousin in particular, they like text a lot and just like about shows and games, and I love it because I love my cousins, but we've joked about how like, or my cousins have specifically joked about how like if we ever broke up, they go, um, it's gonna be so sad when we stop talking to Catholic.

[35:58] Jose: And I'm just like, oh my god, what is you guys are my blood awful?

[36:03] Kathleen Elva: But that's what that song reminded me of. Um even though it's about breaking up, but it just made me think about that.

[36:10] Jose: It was so funny.

[36:11] Kathleen Elva: Oh my god, that is so hilarious.

[36:13] Jose: I love that and also for you, bad tests, bad cutscenes.

[36:16] Kathleen Elva: That's very funny, and also stick with you.

[36:20] Jose: Um, because the twist in words of sick with you versus sick of you.

[36:26] Kathleen Elva: I thought that was really interesting and great, like for the song.

[36:34] Jose: So I guess this isn't as depressing as Malcolm and Marie, but I mean this to get us some laughs.

[36:40] Kathleen Elva: No, no, I'm really glad I listened to this after I watched Malcolm Emory because it is it was definitely not as depressing.

[36:49] Jose: It was heartbreaking, but heartbreaking in the way that you it's like a human thing, like you people experience heartbreak, and when we listen to things where we can relate to this kind of heartbreak, we do feel better, you know, like it's it's a universal experience.

[37:05] Kathleen Elva: And um, when you realize that you're not alone here, it makes the world a little better.

[37:10] Jose: Absolutely. And although we experienced this in a very uh specific way, like basically we got the um, you know, we got to watch the video uh all at once.

[37:21] Kathleen Elva: Uh the project is actually, you know, the songs are streamed. If you call a toll-free number, one eight five five Gay Devo.

[37:31] Jose: You know, uh yeah, so you have to call, and then their whole project is culminating. And by the way, like I have to mention this is being done by people with support from the University of South California, uh, but USC.

[37:45] Kathleen Elva: And which also made me think a lot about uh how this was almost like Magnolia, the uh PT Anderson movie about like all this like LA stories.

[37:54] Jose: Um, but anyway, that's a whole other thing. Uh but this is culminating on Valentine's Day with the performance uh that the gay divorcees are gonna be doing with Kate stuff.

[38:04] Kathleen Elva: And there's a couple of them that are actually pretty cute.

[38:06] Jose: So I will see, I'm gonna attend Kathleen. I'm gonna see uh see this was part of your weekend uh go flirt with the uh gay divorce.

[38:17] Kathleen Elva: Wink, you guys can see me.

[38:20] Jose: Yeah, but this episode will be out by then. So if I you know, if you like what I said about your song, say hi to me.

[38:28] Kathleen Elva: I'm kidding, this is horrible.

[38:30] Jose: No.

[38:32] Kathleen Elva: Uh I I also really wanted to call out that the whole um, you know, it's a visual album, but they also have like a reading list, which is so cool.

[38:42] Jose: Like, I haven't um been able to check out any of them, but I love that it's like such a huge compilation of like visual audio.

[38:49] Kathleen Elva: We have a reading list, you know, and they also include divorce resources.

[38:54] Jose: I feel like that's important.

[38:56] Kathleen Elva: Um because you know, as Jose mentioned, we are seeing the first wave of um gay divorcees, and that must be a unique experience.

[39:05] Jose: So I'm sure that that's something that someone can find use of.

[39:09] Kathleen Elva: And I'm sorry you got divorced, but I hope it's for the better.

[39:14] Jose: And thank you for the uh beautiful songs.

[39:17] Kathleen Elva: And we said like a divorce wraps up on Sunday, February 14th with a special performance.

[39:23] Jose: So uh information about how to attend is gonna be in the show notes.

[39:27] Kathleen Elva: And next up, I interviewed Ryan J. Haddad, the uh incredible writer performer whose show, hi are you single, is currently running at Woolly Mammoth, and it's another romantic but also not particularly like happy ending kind of show, Kathleen.

[39:47] Jose: So are there any that exist?

[39:49] Kathleen Elva: I don't know. Disney stuff, maybe like the Lion King.

[39:56] Jose: I know Aladdin.

[39:59] Kathleen Elva: That's the only place where we get like oh my god, you're right.

[40:02] Jose: Maybe while the interview happens, we can think about happy ending romance.

[40:08] Kathleen Elva: Yeah, it's gonna be hard, but um, let's go to the interview.

[40:15] Jose: I'm sorry for throwing you all in the deep end like that drawings, but everybody knows the best way to find a boyfriend who is masturbating on your phone with telling me you went on grinder.

[40:27] Ryan J. Haddad: Thank you so much for being here today.

[40:32] Jose: I am very disappointed in myself because although I live in New York, I actually have never seen any of your shows live.

[40:43] Ryan J. Haddad: And hi Are You Single, um The Production of Woolly Mammoth and I Am a Theater Company did together.

[40:52] Jose: It's my first time like seeing your work.

[40:55] Ryan J. Haddad: So, you know, like me.

[40:57] Jose: Because you're like a New York staple in so many ways.

[41:00] Ryan J. Haddad: Like I every time that I uh you know, like I've I've seen you like at under the radar, and like I know that you're very, very active.

[41:07] Jose: So I'm very disappointed.

[41:08] Ryan J. Haddad: And now I cannot wait to actually get to experience your charm live and in person.

[41:14] Jose: So I'm gonna make that happen next time.

[41:16] Ryan J. Haddad: Um thank you for saying that.

[41:19] Jose: Um but don't beat yourself up too much because even though I have popped around New York and I would hardly call myself a staple, maybe I'd call myself a paper clip.

[41:28] Ryan J. Haddad: I'm not sure.

[41:29] Jose: Um but I've never had a full production of one of my shows.

[41:36] Ryan J. Haddad: So never had an uh an open-ended run that was or not open-ended, but a long enough run that you know, people who weren't my friends would have the opportunity to know about and go and and check out.

[41:52] Jose: So uh that's the exciting thing about this digital offering is that even though it is digital and even though the audience was small, um, it's my first full production as a playwright, which feels which feels really significant.

[42:08] Kathleen Elva: That's incredible. Congratulations.

[42:09] Jose: I didn't know that.

[42:10] Ryan J. Haddad: Did you know that I've actually seen you on Grinder?

[42:12] Jose: I'm like, oh my god, he's too famous. I cannot say hi.

[42:15] Ryan J. Haddad: I'm I'm not on Grinder anymore.

[42:18] Jose: I'm you probably I'm hoping that you saw me on Scruff.

[42:21] Ryan J. Haddad: If you did see Man Grinder it was several years ago um because Grinder around 2018 I was like this is no longer good for my mental health.

[42:30] Jose: So I I got rid of Grinder but I have every other app that exists.

[42:36] Ryan J. Haddad: All of them okay we're gonna go over the apps in a little bit.

[42:39] Jose: So but before we get started can you let our viewers and our listeners know what high are you single is described in your best words.

[42:47] Ryan J. Haddad: I mean you're the author.

[42:48] Jose: Thank you.

[42:49] Ryan J. Haddad: High Are You Single as an autobiographical solo play about me or a version of me that's a younger version of myself and it is the misadventures and the joys and the frustrations of a young gay man who has cerebral palsy and is horny all the time and it interrogates the media's tendency to desexualize disabled people the gay community's exclusion of people who are different whatever that manifestation means and comes back around to me to say hey oh you're also a gay man and you are just as fucked up in terms of your priorities and your judgment so that's that's the play in a nutshell that's like a a a lot to fit into a nutshell.

[43:48] Ryan J. Haddad: And I was very impressed by, very moved also by the amount of, you know, how you're able to navigate. Like, it's really, it's a really, really funny play, like really rowdy. Like it made me think of like growing up when my dad showed us Porky's for the first time and then like falling in love with American Pie. But it's also so like romantic and it's not fair. I mean, not that it's not fair, but I was like, how can something so funny then have this like devastating twist and leave me just like, oh my god, this is so moving. I'm not making sense right now. I'm sounding like a teenage fan. But I wonder as a playwright and also as a playwright who performs their own work, what was this process like for you of putting so much of yourself and not letting, you know, not giving all of yourself at the same time? Like, was that a fine line to navigate, like, you know, reveal enough without just like being like an open heart, it's like wounded on stage when this is over?

[44:52] Ryan J. Haddad: There are, I mean, I have a couple answers. You'll see that my answers are not the most succinct in the world. But this play has been around, you know, your flagellating yourself for not having seen it earlier live isn't because it ran for years or months, but is because it's sort of popped up numerous times in New York City for two nights or one night or what have you. But it started in 2015 as my senior capstone at Ohio Wesleyan University. So the first, when people ask me about like the writing process, it has grown and shifted and evolved because of my director Laura Savio, who's been working with me on it for five and a half, almost six years now, really shaped it with me dramaturgically after the first production at my school, at my university.

But the development was, you know, years before that. I was doing it through my junior year, different cities, different places, taking it to this educational thing or that theater thing. And the easy part was recounting the navigation of the gay bars and the negative interactions on Grindr or Scruff, or, you know, saying, "Hey, look, I'm not being treated well as a gay man with a disability." The harder part to give and to write, which I avoided for several months, it was a sort of truncated period of time, was in the second half when I am the one that is perpetrating the ignorance. And I knew it needed to be there, right? But I think in my first draft ever, it was like, "And then this happens, and then this happens, the end," instead of really diving in it.

So it took several professors, several mentors to push me toward the real raw truth, and then, or the theatricalized version of the truth, which is maybe even more heightened in terms of my behavior in a negative way, in order to make a point that, you know, this is a double-edged sword, there is prejudice on both sides.

[47:18] Ryan J. Haddad: And so I did it, and then it has been years of work with Laura Savia and our co-director for this digital production, Jess McLeod, now who came on in the fall due to COVID and lots of pandemic personal reasons that, you know, we're still punching that up, still clarifying it, still refining and making sure that it's sharp and the point is as clear as it needs as it is as possible. So that's, I think, was the hardest part to give. Obviously, it's never hard to be like these people were mean, but it is harder to be like, "Well, so am I," you know, that kind of thing. And then what you were asking about giving all, look, I give pretty much everything in my work because I love personal narrative on stage.

I love autobiography, so I have now a catalog not only of solo plays, but also a multi-character family play that, you know, none of those plays yet have had the life that "Hi, Are You Single?" has had touring around the country, and the sort of legs that "Hi, Are You Single?" has because it was first, and it's the thing that the industry knows and stuff like that. But those plays exist and hopefully will be produced on the other side of COVID. And I knew, I've known for a long time that it was never gonna be, "I was born, and today I am this many years old, and I had coffee in the morning for breakfast." Like, to do a start and finish, then that means that I don't have anything else to do. I don't have anything else to give you.

When in reality, I have three or four other solo shows, one of which I've retired before anybody is ever gonna see it again. But I have multiple solo pieces, and I have this multi-character play, and I have other plays that are ruminating in my mind. So I can't give it all to you because I need to save it for the appropriate chunk of my life that I'm trying to dramatize.

[49:36] Ryan J. Haddad: That makes absolute sense. And I have to say, you know, you're absolutely right. Second half Ryan is kind of a douche for sure. And I love it at a show. And this is just me. I don't know if I'm just being nosy right now, or if I'm just like really invested in the play because I just saw it again this morning to prepare for this. But I'm like, in case you're still single, yeah, and someone sees the play, right? They someone like gets a look at the stream, and they're like, "Oh, here's Ryan on Scruff. Do I say hi? Or is it gonna be like second half of the show, Ryan?"

[50:19] Ryan J. Haddad: Oh well, we're all complicated humans, so second half of the show, Ryan. There are lots of elements of truth in it. But there are also lots of elements of having to mentally unpack and do emotional gymnastics for you to be able to play a character and make a point. The second half is definitely based in truth, the events are real. The attitude and the way it's communicated to you is heightened in a stronger way, sharper way, so that you understand what I'm getting at and why I'm taking, why I even though it feels like the character of Ryan has losing control of the play and is revealing all these nasty parts of himself. The playwright Ryan knows exactly what he's doing, and you need to see all those things in order to get to the end to get to the point that the playwright is making.

But it's art, you know what I mean? It's all crafted, so I would say that, like, yeah, I have some bad days, ugly days still, but you're seeing a performance on that stage, both in the first half and the second half, you know. The first half is very like big and campy and cutting, and then the second half is a lot darker, and it's, you know, I'm acting to be able to tell you a story.

[51:35] Ryan J. Haddad: So I would say, feel free to message me on Scruff. You achieved what I thought wasn't possible, and you actually made me miss gay bars and clubs in New York. No, yeah, you did. Every time I go, I'm like, I hate, I hate it here. I never want to set foot in any of these places again, and then while I was, you know, watching your show, I was like, "Oh my god, I would give anything right now to have nachos at Therapy and be ignored by all the twinks around me, but also all the jocks, and also like every man in here." Like I want that more than anything right now. So I don't know if this is a question or anything, but do you miss the clubs and do you miss the bars and do you miss those places that you so vividly take us to in your play, especially right now that we can't really go anywhere?

[53:07] Ryan J. Haddad: First of all, there were nachos at Therapy. I'm upset. No, and maybe my nights would have been way better. Those scenes happened in like 2013 before I ever moved to New York while I was still in college. So those were not only the first times in a gay bar in New York, they were my first time in a gay bar ever. And I start in Hell's Kitchen. I mean, imagine ever period in the world, crazy. Do I miss them? I would say that for the, I miss them for everyone who makes their livelihood there, you know, the drag queens, the go-go dancers, the wait staff, the security folks, like everyone who's out of a job right now, I absolutely miss it for. Really one like happy gay bar moment, and there are several gay bar moments in this show.

So it's complicated because I don't have a ton of really like juicy exciting, sexy, enjoyable memories, except, you know, maybe a handful, one of which you get in the play. So it's hard to say, like I want to go back because I've had so little that has made me feel good when I would when I've been there.

[54:54] Ryan J. Haddad: And um, but I live in Hell's Kitchen now, which I didn't. So for five years, for five is five five years in New York, I lived in the East Village area. And then I went home to be with my family for the duration of the pandemic, and due to falling rent prices, I was able to find a Hell's Kitchen apartment that was in my price range, which wouldn't have been possible a year ago, even though like my income has been pretty much the same. It's not that I suddenly became a millionaire, but that you could suddenly rent studios for a reasonable price, and the where I'm living now is a lot more accessible to me in terms of the building and the amenities, which a lot of people think of as amenities, but which I for me, it's just like these are physical needs as a disabled person.

And so I do think that there would, of course, there has to be a moment when we're allowed to go into bars again and we're allowed to, you know, engage with men without shame and crave in, you know, go to a bar in search of intimacy. Have I ever really found it there? I don't have an answer for you, but now it's so close to me and I'm in the neighborhood that I feel like it would be foolish of me not to take advantage if my lease isn't up by the time bars are back open.

[56:19] Ryan J. Haddad: The introduction to "Hi, Are You Single?" Maria Manuela Goyanz, who is like badass, tells us that you were the first actor since the pandemic started to actually get to perform at Woolly. And for you as a, you know, as a creature off the stage and all of that, what was that moment like for you? And what is the experience of going back to a place that you have been told you won't have access to for God knows how long?

[57:09] Ryan J. Haddad: Yes, I understand. I thought it would be more emotional than it was, but by the time we got to the stage, which was two weeks into the rehearsal process, out of two weeks out of three into the process there, it was like, oh, I'm in rehearsal. You know, it felt like home. It felt like, oh, I'm used to this.

[57:44] Ryan J. Haddad: Um, it's like, oh yeah, I this is yeah, I know I know what it is to be here. And it was kind of seamless for me to, I hadn't been on a stage for the whole, you know. I think I had a reading of one of my plays on March 2nd, and that was the last time I was on a stage, and so I don't know, it was a blessing to be sure, to be a theater actor working in the middle of this time. I mean, I can't say enough how aware I am that so many who are not big giant celebrity stars, right? It's not like the National Theater is broadcasting like the stars of the crown on in a play, right? I'm a I'm a I'm a theater guy, and this is my first full production ever, period. So I recognize that, especially at the status that I am in my career, what how probably unlikely it would have been that I got to do what I did, and I'm really and that I got to do it as soon as I did after COVID began.

So I just I'm grateful for a the opportunity to have worked, now the opportunity for you all to have to see it, who might not have been able to see it, even in a regular world without COVID, who wouldn't have been able to travel to a city to see it at a time, are now able to watch it at any point for a month from the comfort of their homes. That's a huge deal in terms of access, in terms of uh disability access, and giving the play to the people who it was made for to an extent. And also what I want to say is that like the video includes options for captioning and includes options for audio description for uh both deaf and hard of hearing and blind and low vision people to use, I put not at the same time.

Um, but that is was really important to me. And so if I was going to be given this platform, I wanted to make sure that as many people as possible were able to experience the work uh in a way that might not have been quite as seamless had we really been doing it live. It's really strange to be to you know, like to even like consider talking about like beauty and grace and things like that during the pandemic, but access and while you're talking about one of the things that I'm like, I plan to like set things on fire if you know, after we're all like back, you know, if we all get that vaccine at some point and we'll get to go back to gathering uh and being in community at the theater. I'm gonna set things on fire if they tell me that all this access that magically has been granted to people from all over the world and from people from all you know places in life, finally, like, oh no, we're pretending that that never happened.

Uh, we're going back to like just being like, you know, to to to gatekeeping as much as we can in theater. I'm like, nope, that's not gonna happen, not under my watch. And I wonder if there's any, you know, uh things that you also refuse to give up when we all get together again and and go see you tell us about your love life on stage.

[1:01:35] Jose: Right. Well I think that any time I present an offering that it has a digital component, the digital component will have to have captioning and audio description. I don't necessarily mean on every single piece of like social media, though I'm trying as hard as I can at every juncture to make my social media as accessible as possible. But I mean if an institution has the means to capture in this way a piece of mind that then gets to be broadcast then the broadcast has to then have those access tools available. And maybe even adding in you know an ASL interpreter whether it's uh you know a pop-out box or something I mean because that the deaf experience is vast and varied and so for some people captioning is not enough or not sufficient or not compelling for them but that is the best we could do currently under these circumstances.

So I'm gonna always be pushing for greater access. And I think that when it comes to um live theater I'm building one of my next solo plays called Dark Disabled Stories to have audio description live with a person on the stage describing everything that's physically happening so that it isn't optional, so that every person, no matter their needs, is experiencing it and ASL interpretation as well at every performance, and that is built into the play, that's built into the script, and that is what is um that's part of the engine of the piece and the reason and the why that that play is coming into existence. In my other work that's closer, you know, in aesthetic to hire you single, you know. I I'm not building in, I'm not building this play with with that at every point because I don't think it's very hard to be like I must make my work be this because I'm trying to do the right thing.

I like I sometimes I just need to make a play, right? I need to tell the story I need to tell, but that doesn't mean that there isn't going to be a caption or ASL interpreted or audio described performance, and I think typically, especially in nonprofit theater, would be like one or two of those types of performances per run. And that's where I think I'm gonna like put my foot on the floor and and pound it to the ground and say, no, no, no, we need four or three or five or six out of 40 or out of 35 or whatever, whatever a nonprofit run is. Um, so that maybe it's a weekly occurrence or something, and so that they know the disabled folks and the deaf and disabled folks know from the start. We are welcome here, and they have made it very clear to us that we are welcome on these days, and it's not just like, oh, I can't make that one performance, but we really are putting an effort forward, and that is a financial commitment, and it shouldn't certainly be out of my pocket as the playwright or the actor, but I'm raising the attention, I'm raising the issue and saying, like, you will do better, like for me, you will do better. Hopefully, for other disabled artists, you will do better, and you will continue to do better when there's not a disabled performer on the stage, even though there always should be, you know.

[1:05:37] Ryan J. Haddad: I I and that's another thing. Um, I'm so tired of disabled stories being ignored, and disabled performers being ignored, disabled writers, disabled directors, disabled designers, like they're there, we exist, right? And uh in some ways, theater is ahead of the curve, but some ways Hollywood is ahead of the curve, and like who is rounding the corner in the race? It should not be a race, but like for all of the deep cultural inclusion that is being called for right now in the American theater, there needs to be like disabled disabled stories and disabled people need to be included in the inclusion. It doesn't have to be you doing the disabled play every year, but you can do it in your casting, and you can do it in your hiring process, and I mean, to even, I mean, it's even more revolutionary to welcome us to welcome us into stories that were not written for us in mind, but then you say, Oh, actually, no, Ryan would be great in that role, or Greg would be great in that role, or Alexandria Wales would be great in that role, or Christine Bruno, or Jeron Herman, or I'm naming I'm named just naming names now.

Jesse Yates, who's a brilliant actress who's uh you know getting her MFA at Yale right now. It's it's like you we we are we are available to tell all kinds of stories, it doesn't need to be the disabled story, and what it means for the rest of us watching to see one of us on the stage is so significant.

[1:07:39] Ryan J. Haddad: This is uh I don't I'm not sure if this is controversial or not, but I feel like there's two types of queer men. The type of queer men that say dick and the type of queer men that say cock. Clearly, you're in the cock team, and I want to ask you how do you reach that point?

[1:07:59] Ryan J. Haddad: Wow. You told me you were gonna ask about word choice, and I had no idea that that was going to be uh the what wow, I'm stunned by this question. Uh I feel very British. I don't know. I think the word cock is sexier. Suck my cock, it's so much sexier than suck my dick. Like, I just I don't know, it fits better in my mouth.

[1:08:31] Ryan J. Haddad: Ha ha ha. Love me a good pun. Yeah, and I agree with you, Annette. Like I always thought, you know, reading dick pic. Maybe that's the maybe that's the thing. Well, I just I will say that. Like if I'm in reference to a photo of a penis, I will say dick pick. Because I feel like that's the word. It's not cockpick. That's not that's if you open to the dictionary, like it wouldn't wouldn't say cockpick. Um but I think if you're just talking about the the item on the for sale uh rack, then it's a dick. It's a cock. It's a cock. Right? Because I'm like, maybe that's the thing that like really like messed me up. So I'm like, you know, like the eye, like dick pick. At what point in the play did you did this happen for you? Like the second you said cock, and I was like, wait, I just don't remember the first time I say cock.

[1:09:30] Ryan J. Haddad: Oh, I oh yeah, I do. I do. It's my cock is very capable of it. Um and I think in that instance it's because of the alliteration, cock and capable. So yeah, so I knew there was like a nerdy like word like sense to it. Like this is like Sesame Street for like grownups, like capable cock. And yes, and I don't I remember writing the first draft of Hyre You Single. Oh, I could cry. Um, I was here in New York during my senior year of college, which is by the way, when a lot of like that semester is when the sort of last two events of the second half of the play take place, the the stories that are that uh that are my asshole uh period. Um and so I don't know why I just told you that, but I think the proximity of when I said like it was hard for me to write those things down, it's because they happened, and then I immediately went back to college and was they were like, so you're doing this play, like time is ticking, March 27th is your opening night, and I was like, but I don't want to write the bean thing, because they had just happened, whereas the other things had happened a couple years before, now many years ago.

But the point, so I'm writing the first draft, um in the bean, but which is now closed, the bean on Second Avenue near near New Theater workshop, because I was studying at La Mama and I had a deadline of writing the first draft, and of course I was doing it like that afternoon, like page one, like feverishly. But uh it was I I just I love that bean, and I can't believe I so what I'm saying to you is when I typed that, like I don't remember what I was thinking as a senior in college at the Bean in 2014, but that scene and many several of the pieces, I would say the opening, the opening scene, and the uh the the final the toast were devised in Tim Miller's storytelling workshops.

[1:12:08] Ryan J. Haddad: Do you know Tim Miller?

[1:12:10] Jose: I don't think I do.

[1:12:11] Ryan J. Haddad: I know that precisely that bean in the corner you're talking about, which is also like dangerously close to both the cock and boiler room. Ryan, so if I was like you're you know, like you're I don't know, like you're writing something, I would be like, Ryan, stay away from where the gay bars are.

[1:12:25] Ryan J. Haddad: Well, um Tim Miller is an acclaimed, fabulous, internationally acclaimed solo performer who's based now in California but was in New York for many, many years and is one of the founders of PS 122, now called Performance Based New York. So he's a brilliant uh you know gay storyteller and does a lot of explicitly political work, whereas my work is very implicitly political, but not like in your face, and I'm not talking about Republican Democrat and my work. Not that I'm not very passionate and um active, it just means that I don't my work is like I just don't do that yet. I don't know. But Tim is so brilliant, and I to did four storytelling workshops with him starting in my sophomore year of college.

Without Tim, there would be no me. I would not tell these stories, I wouldn't be an autobiographical performer or playwright. And he is just so brilliant, and his teaching and his mentorship is as significant uh as his performative abilities, and I uh, you know, have subsequently gone on to teach variations of that class with his blessing. So all that is to say, I don't remember what it is to say, but you asked about the word cock, and I got to Tim Miller. So uh we and I and I think I'd like to believe that he would also agree that the word cock is better than the word dick.

[1:13:58] Jose: I mean, yeah, that's that's a that's a perfect and I agree with both of you. It's just like maybe it's up to you, Brian and Tim, I hope, to come up with the equivalent, you know, like tick pick, but using cock, be like, I don't like cock, because like when I think cock, I think cock block, and that's something that we don't want, right?

[1:14:17] Ryan J. Haddad: Oh my god, oh my god, this is horrible, and you're gonna be upset.

[1:14:24] Jose: Cock capture.

[1:14:27] Ryan J. Haddad: Oh, not upset with that at all. It's really bad. It's really bad. It's not great, but it's not bad. You know, it it has like it has like melody, but you should trademark it by the way, uh, before people like start using it.

[1:14:42] Jose: And you drink a lot of margaritas on, I mean, not literally on stage, although I don't know. I hope you were not real, no, but you drink a lot of margaritas. Are margaritas still are your go-to drink?

[1:14:54] Ryan J. Haddad: No. As I said, a lot of those scenes happened in 2013 when I was between my sophomore and junior years of college, when my tolerance and strength for alcohol was much stronger than it is today. And before I started experiencing mild acid reflux, which I don't still have a ton of. Like it kind of has subsided in recent years, but I think it has subsided because I stopped drinking margaritas. So now it I drink vodka primarily, uh vodka cranberry or vodka ginger ale are my two drinks of choice. And um, yeah, I drink a lot of tequila in college. At the bar at college, I would drink you know, tequila sunrise and or margaritas, and um, and now I just definitely don't, so I also I also want to say, um, which is I don't know, a lot of people like drank very heavily during quarantine.

Well, I was at my mom and dad's house, so they don't drink, like, period, and so we don't really have alcohol in our house, and never once did I have a desire to to drink something. Everyone else was like, I'm drinking it every day, and I was like, Well, I had a milkshake and also a piece of cake, and how about that candy bar? Like, I was drinking it in different ways, and my um, you know, my figure changed a little slightly, and I was very I've been trying to be better about my diet because of the weight gain, and it you know, it's not it wasn't a significant weight gain, and I know a lot of people would be like, Oh my god, you're so skinny, but you just feel when your body is changing, and also, uh, exercise is hard during a pandemic, but I'm a disabled person, and it does, and there are lots of disabled people who love working out and are very, very active and very cut and very sexy.

I'm not one of those people. So for me, it's like it has to be what I'm eating because I'm not gonna want to run a marathon or or do push-ups or any of that. I I'm I'm saying this on record in October while I was at Woolly Mammoth trying to slim down in advance of the filming, which nothing changes in three weeks, so I don't know what I was thinking. Um I look very good on camera uh in the film, so it I also was being too hard on myself, I think. But I prepaid for four uh sessions with a personal trainer who is a very wonderful kind guy and cared a lot about adapting for disability. But you know that like as soon as we rapped at Wooly, I just like forgot. So now I still have two sessions that I've paid for, and he keeps being like, Ryan, when are you gonna like and I'm like, oh, I'm gonna get to it, I swear. Like, I absolutely it's coming. Yes, you can have me do push-ups again. Absolutely.

[1:18:20] Ryan J. Haddad: No, so um, but also as much as I've been trying to, I'm gonna just out myself, as much as I've been trying to be better and eat more vegetables and fruit and less carbs, because my mom and dad not so much anymore, but when I was there, there were like a lot of carbs happening, and I was just eating and all, you know. Um despite all of that, I last night was listening to the gorgeous, illustrious Nicole Bayer on her podcast, which I had not heard or even knew of her. I did see an Instagram post. You're gonna be like, This is the most bad shit episode of my show, and he's just talking in the biggest circles, but I'm gonna just tell the world. So I'm being driven by the company manager of Woolly Mammoth to DC from Ohio, and then driven to New York because I was like, I will not get on a plane, and her name is Ellie Nora Sapp, and she's become a very dear friend.

So I think there was a moment in the car where I was just like, Good night, and I was so tired. And then so she's like listening to music and podcasts and stuff, and she put turns on Nicole Byers, Why Won't You Date Me? Which you know, I have a show called Hire You Single. So the a podcast called Why Won't You Date Me, it's like right up my alley, and I'm so I start listening and I wake up and I sit up and I become obsessed, and I don't know how she she started at the beginning. So then I went back and started at the beginning of her podcast, which she began recording in like 2017, and I've now made it to like spring of 2018 in the episode order, and I just keep going through. So when I'm alone having dinner and feeling like I wish I had a boyfriend, I turn on why won't you date me and feel like I have a friend in my apartment.

Anyway, all that is to say, last night I was listening to an episode from spring of 2018, and she mentions, she and her guests mentioned a buttercake from a steakhouse that I had never heard of called Maestros, M-A-E-S-T-R-O-S steakhouse. I'd never heard of it, and I was like, Oh, this has to only be in LA. And then I Google it and it's on Sixth Avenue in New York. So you know, pre-snowstorm, pre-snowstorm. I am on the website ordering the buttercake, dipping the delivery person very well because it's about to be a snowstorm. And I was like, I'm getting this buttercake today. So I got it, and it was about this big, and you know I ate the whole thing.

[1:21:13] Jose: As God would want you.

[1:21:15] Ryan J. Haddad: Now I want that buttercake. I think really amazing. It was very good. It was very, very good. They give you a little recipe card with instructions on how to assemble it because it can't possibly come assembled. Um, you know, all the parts are there, but like I just have to imagine that it's better in the in the space because it'll come out of the oven and and they'll be able to decorate it how they do, and the ice cream won't melt in three seconds and things like that. But I but for me, because it said put it in the microwave for a minute to 90 seconds. Well, I chose 90 seconds, and that was probably a mistake because that then everything melted. And so I look forward to one day going to that steakhouse and getting the buttercake and hopefully having a boyfriend to share it with because it is not meant for one person at all. But I did it, I did it.

[1:22:11] Jose: Or your boyfriend could get his own, and you each have your own cake, and everyone's happy.

[1:22:16] Ryan J. Haddad: No, no, no, no, no, no. No, because I think if that happened, then my boyfriend would have to get we'd have to get two things so that we could try different desserts.

[1:22:25] Jose: That sounds very smart, and then probably not, and then probably just not have anal penetration that evening.

[1:22:34] Ryan J. Haddad: Probably not. Probably not. The second food shows up, you know it's not happening anymore for either party.

[1:22:40] Jose: You are the guest in our Valentine's Day episode. Because your show is so romantic. So I have some romance questions for ya, because you seem to be, I mean, based on higher.

[1:22:58] Ryan J. Haddad: No, no. It's not depressing.

[1:22:59] Jose: I mean, isn't Valentine's Day depressing by default?

[1:23:05] Ryan J. Haddad: For me, yes, it always has. It's like, yeah, it's always like really shitty for me, also. Uh, but I do have some romance questions for you because like you are so like unabashedly romantic in this show, and you dream of this boyfriend or boyfriends and buttercake and all that. So you are the perfect guest for a Valentine's Day.

[1:23:24] Jose: Okay. Okay, so I have some questions, and I even prepare like a little show and tell. Uh, and I'll go first, and then you can go if that helps. So I'm gonna ask you what your favorite uh romance is and love-related thing is in several categories. So let's start with books.

[1:23:46] Ryan J. Haddad: And I love Carol so much, you know, original title of Prize of Salt by Patricia Highsmith. I think it's one of the most romantic books of all time. So this and Pride and Prejudice are my go-to for like when I want that, like you know, like being swept off my feet with a book. What's your favorite romance book?

[1:24:07] Ryan J. Haddad: It's not a romance, it's depressing, but it is Mitch Album's The Five People You Meet in Heaven because of the relationship with his wife in the in the book. And that the relationship with his wife is is what propels the whole story. So um yeah, that's uh kind of a uh uh a world a world defying romance, and I think that's gorgeous.

[1:24:43] Jose: That's absolutely beautiful, and I've read that book also, and I didn't think of it as a romance, so thank you for that, Ryan.

[1:24:49] Ryan J. Haddad: Well, like it's I mean I I told you it's not it's a depressing, but it's beautiful.

[1:24:56] Jose: It is beautiful. So favorite romance movie.

[1:25:00] Ryan J. Haddad: I mean, I wore my shirt just for you, but I also have a copyright here. I am fucking head over heels over Moulin Rouge, and I think it's the most romantic thing of all time. So your turn, Ryan.

[1:25:12] Ryan J. Haddad: Sleepless in Seattle by Nora Efron.

[1:25:18] Jose: It's a great choice, I think. Before we before to get in the mood to talk to you, I was listening to one of my favorite love songs of all time. And please, Ryan, don't hang up on me when I tell you what it is. I was listening to Lover by Taylor Swift, which I think is one of the most beautiful.

[1:25:36] Ryan J. Haddad: But I can't say for certain if I've heard that song. Like I probably have on the radio, but I don't, I couldn't like if you ask me to give you a lyric right now, I I can't specify what song it is.

[1:25:50] Jose: Are you saying that I should sing for you?

[1:25:52] Ryan J. Haddad: I if you like, it'll give me more time to come up with my song.

[1:26:00] Jose: Okay, let me try. Um, gonna try my best uh to make this work. Um, it's basically uh, can I go where you go? Can we always be this close forever and ever and uh take me out and take me home?

[1:26:24] Ryan J. Haddad: Sure, I've heard it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You got okay, okay. Sorry, Taylor, and sorry, Ryan. So, what's your love song, Ryan?

[1:26:31] Ryan J. Haddad: Uh Harold Arlen's That's All, as sung by Edie Adams on the final episode of the Lucio Ball Desiones show, better known as the Lucy Desi Comedy Hour, and the final time that we ever saw uh the Ricardos and the Murches.

[1:26:51] Ryan J. Haddad: And it's a beautiful song, but that is how I came to know it was that episode, which is also like was filmed the day before Lucy O'Ball filed for divorce or something. Uh so it was bittersweet for those on set. Not that I was around in 1960. I was not, but uh, I remember watching it in my childhood bedroom on Nick and Night and being like, This is the most beautiful song I've ever heard, and I do sing it. It's one of the songs in my little recto. I wonder if that's gonna be related to my last question about romance uh in terms of pub culture, and what is your favorite like romance TV show? Because I'm like a cliché and I always go for Sex and the City. Uh-huh my goodness this that's harder hold on shitscre and the Patrick and David yeah oh that's very and I need a Patrick so if there are eligible Patrick's insensibility my mother is obsessed with the idea of me marrying Daniel Levy and like I would love to go I was sure I would I want to be Daniel Levy's best friend we'd probably go on a few dates I would be open to that but I feel like our energies are too um and I know he was playing a character but like also like I'm playing a character and how are you single okay but like I you know what you're getting and I have a sense that like our energies are too similar to sustain romance I need someone who like will be like baby I know that you left the kitchen amass two nights in a row I will help you it'll be fine and yes I know you had that buttercake and then we will not be having intercourse but we can still cuddle like yeah the buttercake that you refuse to share with them I'm sure that that's a line from a cutscene in shitscre absolutely absolutely yeah.

[1:29:15] Ryan J. Haddad: And I'm like totally like, I want um, oh my god, what's the dad's name? Jesus, I'm terrible. Eugene. Yeah, I feel like I'm more kind of like that Eugene like energy with like Amora where I'm like, sure, I'll pretend that I know the names of all your wigs. But isn't that but isn't that interesting? You just said something that I have not even ever processed. That it's basically like David and Moira are the same, similar, and that like Ooh, this is really weird and Freudian, but that David found a version of his father of Johnny. He totally did, yeah. He's totally Johnny Rose. I've never seen those parallels before. Wow, you just illuminated. Oh my goodness, you're so smart.

[1:30:07] Ryan J. Haddad: I try my best. Uh I do have one more you just dramaturges creak for me. Oh my god. I do have one more V-Day question, and it's if someone's out there and they want to send you something. Do you want chocolates or flowers? And if flowers, which kind of flowers does Brian need, and are you allergic to flowers?

[1:30:34] Ryan J. Haddad: I'm not allergic to flowers, so my response is gonna sound like I'm a complete bitch. And please forgive me, please forgive me to every individual who has ever given me flowers after a show. You don't know understand how much I appreciate the care that you take and the expense that you've taken, the curatorial abilities that you've shown with the flowers that you chose, but please don't ever send me flowers, forgive me flowers. I just, my mother would hate to hear it because she is a gardener through and through, but I just don't have a place for it in my life. Like, I I don't, I don't, especially after a show, especially after a live performance. I love everyone, and I can name 10 of them who have given me flowers out of the greatness of their hearts.

But the truth is, I am a man with a walker. At all times, both hands have to be on my walker handles in order for me to walk. So I'm not going to be able to carry your bouquet or your potted plant or any form of nature. So always give me food, or always give me a little certificate, or if you I don't know what else you give someone, but give me anything you give me should either fit in my backpack or be in a bag with handles because that is the only way that I am able to transport it. So and yes, so the answer is chocolate.

[1:32:10] Ryan J. Haddad: Thank you so much for joining me today. And happy V Day, uh, whenever V Day actually happens. And can you tell our listeners and our viewers where they can find Hi, Are You Single and anything else you have going on at streaming? Buyable, shoppable.

[1:32:27] Ryan J. Haddad: Thank you, thank you. Sure. Uh I am at Ryan J Haddad, Ryan R I A N J H A D D A D on Instagram and Twitter. Though I have not updated my Twitter in a long time. It is there, and someday, I will return. Uh you can watch Hi, Are You Single at any point in the month of February by going to woollymammoth.net. That's W O O L L Y Mammoth.net. It's a co-production with I Am a Theater Company, or rather in association with I Am a Theater Company, but I've been told to spell out the woolly address. So that's where I'm directing people. W-O-O-L-L-YMOT.net.

[1:33:16] Ryan J. Haddad: And you can watch it on demand at any time. Anytime. The moment you hit play or watch now or whatever it is, because I've never seen the interface, your 48-hour rental begins. But nobody is over your shoulder telling you you have to watch it a certain time on a certain day. So you know, please watch it, but watch it at your leisure and when you have the time to take it in. And then in terms of other projects, I mean if you like my play and want more people to produce it and also produce my other plays, you can certainly, you know, make that known at your favorite uh venue. Yeah, but also um I am on television, and the show is called The Politician, and I am in both season one and season two, now streaming on Netflix. So please watch that.

[1:34:07] Ryan J. Haddad: And uh it's great fun and has a particularly fabulous cast. And uh I I'm especially love the arrival of Bet Midler and Judith Light in season two. I'm very proud of myself for not asking you any questions about Gwyneth Paltrow because I love Gwyneth Paltrow so much. I'm obsessed with Gwyneth Paltrow, so I'm very proud of myself right now for that.

[1:34:33] Ryan J. Haddad: Thank you so much, Ryan. Do you have any recommendations for snacks or drinks that people can pair their viewing of Hi, Are You Single with?

[1:34:42] Ryan J. Haddad: Well, I would say come go back to my youth with me. Go back to my youth with me and have a little sip of your favorite margarita. I love Stacy's pita chips and hummus. And I also uh love Tostito's uh tortilla chips. I'm also gonna definitely include a link to Maestros so people can get that butter cake in the show notes. Okay, it is expensive, but also like don't do what I did and don't overwarm your butter cake so that everything else melts on top of it. May Joe's buttercake, yes. And thanks to Nicole Bayer for her podcast from three years ago. Thank you so much, Ryan, for that incredibly funny conversation. And you can stream Hi, Are You Single through the end of the month, and there's gonna be more information about this in the show notes.

[1:35:40] Kathleen Elva: Did you think about any happy ending romances? What about Oklahoma?

[1:35:45] Jose: No, everyone gets shot in the end.

[1:35:47] Kathleen Elva: I mean, not everyone, but they killed Jed. Um Anastasia, which we already talked about, but it is so depressing though.

[1:35:55] Jose: I mean her entire family was murdered, Kevin.

[1:35:59] Kathleen Elva: I know, I know, but she okay, yeah. I was like, what about Once?

[1:36:04] Jose: No.

[1:36:05] Kathleen Elva: Oh would you consider South Pacific a good romance?

[1:36:13] Jose: I haven't seen it yet.

[1:36:15] Kathleen Elva: Okay. What about Hades?

[1:36:18] Jose: I'm like Hades don't nope, definitely not.

[1:36:21] Kathleen Elva: Um What about Chicago?

[1:36:24] Jose: It's about two women who fall in love with murder.

[1:36:28] Kathleen Elva: I know, there's always just like there's no there's especially if when you're thinking about theater, Jose, I mean, come on.

[1:36:37] Jose: Like you're right, it's all Disney.

[1:36:40] Kathleen Elva: Yeah, maybe Rogers and Hammerstein, maybe no, definitely not carousel.

[1:36:44] Jose: Jesus Christ, not carousel.

[1:36:46] Kathleen Elva: Um music.

[1:36:51] Jose: Yes.

[1:36:52] Kathleen Elva: There's Nazis, but I mean But that's like such a minor part of the mov uh the movie, the musical, right?

[1:36:59] Jose: Like I mean semi, semi minor.

[1:37:03] Kathleen Elva: Yeah, it's kind of like being alive this day is basically the son of music, right?

[1:37:07] Jose: There's Nazis outside everywhere.

[1:37:11] Kathleen Elva: And yeah.

[1:37:13] Jose: Oh wow.

[1:37:14] Kathleen Elva: So dear listeners, did you think about a happy one?

[1:37:18] Jose: Help us.

[1:37:19] Kathleen Elva: Yeah, there you go.

[1:37:21] Jose: Yeah, if you'd think of a happy romantic show, let us know.

[1:37:27] Kathleen Elva: Because right now I'm like really baffled.

[1:37:30] Jose: No, yeah.

[1:37:30] Kathleen Elva: I yeah, like not the Cher show, not Beautiful, not hopefully Valentine's Day inspires you guys.

[1:37:38] Jose: Jesus Christ, yes.

[1:37:40] Kathleen Elva: Not West Side Story.

[1:37:41] Jose: Oh my god, Kathleen, this is out sad.

[1:37:44] Kathleen Elva: Okay.

[1:37:45] Jose: I'm resorting to Google, so oh Mama Mia.

[1:37:55] Kathleen Elva: Hairspray.

[1:37:57] Jose: Yeah, I guess.

[1:37:58] Kathleen Elva: Yeah.

[1:37:59] Jose: Hairspray is probably the closest thing to a Disney movie, I wanna say.

[1:38:03] Kathleen Elva: And it is very romantic.

[1:38:05] Jose: And also there's this like beautiful romance between the mom and her husband, right?

[1:38:09] Kathleen Elva: Yeah, yeah.

[1:38:10] Jose: Yeah, let's go with that for now, Kathleen.

[1:38:13] Kathleen Elva: Go with that.

[1:38:14] Jose: I feel like that's the closest thing we'll get for tonight.

[1:38:17] Kathleen Elva: Yeah.

[1:38:19] Jose: Wow, that's sad.

[1:38:20] Kathleen Elva: So anyway, I hope all of you have a very happy uh Valentine's Day and that you get flowers, chocolate, whatever your thing is. Um, if you're single and you wanna send someone a flower, why don't you send us a dollar flower?

[1:38:35] Jose: Okay, that makes no sense, but I'll try to make it work.

[1:38:38] Kathleen Elva: Um become a subscriber and become a friend and our friend zone on Patreon. Uh starting at one buck.

[1:38:44] Jose: We have several tiers, but uh I really love the dollar tier because like I want it to be for everyone.

[1:38:50] Kathleen Elva: This is made by people of color for people of color, and we love you guys, so love us back by becoming our contributor.

[1:38:59] Jose: Um I'm still thinking about happy romance shows, Kathleen.

[1:39:03] Kathleen Elva: Oh my god, that's so sad.

[1:39:05] Jose: Greece, Greece, yes, that's probably the lightest tragic, the lightest tragedy in all theater, right there, which is crazy because it's so popular.

[1:39:17] Kathleen Elva: Like, yeah, I got chills and multiplying, and yeah.

[1:39:22] Jose: Um, I was gonna say, like, what about My Fair Lady?

[1:39:25] Kathleen Elva: And like, no, he is a fucking misogynist. He yells at her the entire time.

[1:39:27] Jose: It's really hard with the older ones.

[1:39:33] Kathleen Elva: Like sitting, just like sitting on it, like thinking about yeah, uh but we were isn't it crazy that we were told that those were like romantic shows?

[1:39:42] Jose: Oh my gosh.

[1:39:42] Kathleen Elva: It's so yeah, it's so funny because I it's so funny. I told my cousin or I briefly talked with one of my cousins about how um Mary Poppins, oh not Mary Poppins, I'm sorry. What am I thinking of? Oh, uh Wizard of Oz is being remade into a movie because what's not being remade into a movie. And he was talking about how he's hopeful because maybe they'll have a BIPOC, and you know, seeing it for him, because he's such a cinephile as well, that it was it's really hard to swallow for him that because he loves old films that they're all made and produced and etc. by straight white men, and it's usually all white people. So like when he realized that it was just so you know, you know what I mean?

[1:40:26] Jose: So honey, talk about a bad romance.

[1:40:30] Kathleen Elva: I know.

[1:40:31] Jose: Uh our love for the art that doesn't let us back.

[1:40:35] Kathleen Elva: Yeah.

[1:40:37] Jose: So uh happy Valentine's Day can't next time. Let us know how you're driving or stay at home till when update you on that.

[1:40:45] Kathleen Elva: Happy Valentine's to you too, Jose.

[1:40:47] Jose: I'll talk to you.

[1:40:50] Kathleen Elva: Bye.