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[0:11] Migguel Anggelo: Welcome to Token Theatre Friends. I'm so happy to be talking to you, Jose. It's been quite some time, hasn't it?

[0:20] Jose: Exactly, two years before the pandemic. So I'm so excited. I'm so happy for you, like genuinely, that this is happening after everything that we have been through. So before we get to actually talk about your album and your performance at Lincoln Center, what have you been up to over the past two years? How has the pandemic treated you?

[0:47] Migguel Anggelo: Well, first of all, thank you so much for the invitation, Jose. Yeah, it's been like a roller coaster, but a very nice roller coaster. Why? Because, you know, in the pandemic, when I started the pandemic, I always thought, or everybody thought, oh, this is gonna be just, you know, a few months. Even me, I said, oh, two weeks. So then we started going to do it. I said, you know what? This is the time for me, or for artists, but especially in my case, to focus a lot on art and my music. So I was in the pandemic in my little art studio here very close. I'm in Dumbo in Brooklyn. I started doing even costumes. I don't know how to sew, but I was like, even for me, it wasn't very difficult to put in the, you know, the tray.

Like, I was like, oh my god. Anyway, so I did maybe like 13 costumes by hand, like crazy. If you think, I think if Lady Gaga saw my costumes compared to her costumes, I think she looks like a Heidi next to me. Like, it should be so simple. Anyway, and I did paintings because, you know, I do a lot of paintings. I paint with oil, and I love it. So, but then I said, you know what? I'm gonna prepare for the album. During the pandemic, I got so focused on writing more songs. I think I wrote maybe like 100 songs, you know? And then I said, oh, but if I do the album, if I change some orders of songs, this could be like a kind of like a play, a dance theater, a musical, whatever. So I said, you know what?

But I don't want to be a musical. I don't want to be a play. I want to do like a dance theater, like a hybrid. It's very weird, it's very like in the good way. So then I wrote more songs with my friend and collaborator, Jaime Lozano, that I'm sure you know. Jaime from Mexico is like my brother from another mother. So I said, Jaime, we do this, and then I said, perfect. So I explained to him what I do and said, okay, one day it's gonna happen. And then it happened. We prepared with the auditions, and then we did only one show last March in Washington, D.C. So it was amazing. The reaction from the audience was incredible. We had in the middle of the show an extending ovation, and seriously, I was completely in shock.

I said, why are they standing? This is not supposed to happen, you know? Well, for me, it's very weird when they applaud, and I'm like, oh, okay, wait, cool. Anyway, but it was amazing. And then right away, we received the invitation for Lincoln Center. They said, we want to do this here. What do you think? Maybe we get October, November. So then we tried to do the tour, but it's not happening in December. So it's December 1st, 2nd, and 3rd at the Clark Theater here at Lincoln Center in New York City. And actually, tomorrow start the rehearsals, so I'm super excited, and I can't wait for the people in New York to see this piece, this immigration piece.

[3:36] Jose: That's incredible because, like, what it sounds like is you went into full creative mode. So were you not tired at any point? Did you find so much of an outlet for everything that was happening to your creative work that that just took you through? Because, like, most of us look like crap since 2020, and you look fabulous. You look like you have even more energy than before.

[3:36] Migguel Anggelo: Oh yeah, like, you know, this is funny because even, you know, you know me a little, and people that doesn't know me, when they see me now and even before after the pandemic, they say, "My girl, are you being taken out of cocaine?" I'm like, what? I said, no, I don't do drugs. I'm super high natural. If I take something, it would be Nutella. I love chocolate. That is my high drug, the Nutella. And I think my music, I think when I hear music, when I hear good music, when I go to see artists, you know, like on other shows here in New York, be it an opera, a ballet, a play, I go high just watching other artists. It's very crazy. I can be like a stone, like ooh, just watching other people. So I think this is maybe my blood. I can be a natural drug addict in my blood. But yeah, I was crazy creative. If I was before the pandemic a creative person, I became like triple creative during the pandemic.

[6:18] Jose: Yeah, that's really beautiful. That's admirable. Like, I'm a little bit envious of that. I wish I had that as well. Did you discover any works that you didn't know of before then during this time since we had so much free time as well, unless we were making costumes and writing music and all of that? So if you had free time, did you discover any new artists that you love?

[6:44] Migguel Anggelo: Yeah, well, I always find people, and one of the artists that I discovered during the pandemic is a British artist named Paloma Faith. I didn't even know about her, and then one day I was watching a video, and I said, damn, she's crazy! I love her, you know, because she is very unique, and she's the one who sings "Only Love." I love that song. Then I started to follow her. But basically, what's Paloma Faith? But of course, before I went crazy more with the music, The Weeknd, I love that man. I think his music is like a spell. When you hear the music from The Weeknd, it's like you get under the spell, and it's incredible. I love when an artist, could be an actor or a dancer or whatever, is unique, but especially in music.

When you are unique, that attracts me a lot to follow you too. I don't care if you have one million views or 1,000. I have only 2,000 followers, but they are real. One day, I may have more. But I really admire unique artists. Have you heard that The Weeknd song with Rosalía where it's a bachata? The Weeknd almost sounds like Romeo Santos. No? You have to check it out. I think it's called "La Fama." I want to check it out. I think she's great too. Actually, Rosalía is good. I don't follow her, but when I see her doing stuff, I'm like, oh, she's very interesting. She has something.

[8:33] Jose: So, I mean, enough about other artists. Let's talk about your work. I love your album so much, but I don't want to spoil what it is for people, not that you can spoil it or anything. But can you take us on a journey? The album takes us on a journey as an immigrant and often immigrant in so many different ways. You know, it's this beautiful metaphor of a butterfly becoming, you know, blossoming. But also, you probably do much better work at talking about your album. So can you tell people what the album's about? How did you come up with it, and how did it turn out so beautiful?

[9:25] Migguel Anggelo: Oh, thank you so much. Well, basically, the idea, well, like I always say when people interview me, my ideas come from my dreams. I think 95% of everything you see or the audience sees on the stage is through my dreams. I dream, and then I tell people, I want to do this, I want to do this, you know? So the album basically is a story of immigration or this guy, in this case, me, who comes from Venezuela. Since I was a kid or a baby, I always dreamed of living in New York City. So I said, you know what? I want to do an immigration story, but because I love so much poetry and metaphor, and I love the audience to think about it. So I said, you know what? I want to do the immigration story, but through a different object.

In this case, it's an insect, it's a caterpillar. And why caterpillar? Because of the Big Apple, how people call New York City. So this caterpillar came on the plane inside an apple, and somebody doesn't want the apple or throws the apple, and then the apple appears in some place in Manhattan. And then when that worm or that caterpillar comes outside the apple, they say, "Oh, finally, I'm here. Now I need to survive." So that worm, but everybody watched him and said, you know, because people don't like worms, and they always think about that guy because it's an immigrant, or that insect is an immigrant, is a worm. But the character said, "I'm not a worm. You think I'm a worm, but I am a caterpillar, and I came here.

I'm going to survive as a caterpillar, and I will become a butterfly someday." And at the same time, what happens to the caterpillar of the butterfly is the same steps of an immigrant with his papers. When he gets his papers, his work permit, his social security, his green card, and finally his citizenship. And then it's all the same. An immigrant, like a human immigrant, insect immigrant, until the end, when I finally learned how, okay, I got my dream, I got my wins. And then in this case, as a human, I got the green card, I got this and that. And now what else? Now I need to continue working and try to learn to fly. And finally, when I had everything, finally I got it, I achieved my goal, so I can die now at any moment.

But the beautiful thing in this case of the part is even when he dies, a butterfly becomes ashes like humans. So in ashes, even if you blow away, they're still flying. So that is the concept of the album. And every song is connected, even if not with music, with sound. Well, you hear the album. And it's been a big process. I have been writing songs for this album for maybe five or six years, and then mostly 95% of the songs I wrote on the subway in New York City.

[12:57] Migguel Anggelo: I don't know how for me the subway is okay, it's so dirty, it's so gross, but it's so magical. It has so much energy. And then I talked with Jaime, Jaime, we talked together, and then he helped me to do all the compositions for this for the songs and some lyrics. And this is what the album is. It's like a very magical metaphor music album about a story about the immigrant. In this case, the monarch's butterfly. It is really beautiful, and it brings up so much imagery. I mean, just by listening to the music, you dream up your own story. Like I thought of an animated version, for instance. Obviously, you do a stage performance. But before talking about performance itself, you mentioned that a lot of your ideas come to you in dreams. Does that mean that you are very good at journaling your dreams? Or do you just have a really good memory? Do you always remember what you dream of?

[13:58] Migguel Anggelo: Not always. That is an interesting question because basically, when I dream, you know, when humans, we constantly dream, we never remember what we dreamed. It's very weird. But when I remember something, it's a great idea. I don't know what's happened, and then I remember. Even sometimes, for example, I remember from my album La Casa Azul, my second album, I woke up at three or four in the morning, and I grabbed a pencil and a piece of paper and I wrote a song like Frida Kahlo. I think in maybe five minutes I wrote all the song, and I was sleeping. It was like a Frida Kahlo ghost was telling me, "Okay, write this, write this, write this." You know, I said, "Okay, okay, Frida, okay, calm down." You know what I was writing. But it's very weird but very interesting.

[14:11] Migguel Anggelo: That's really incredible. But does that mean that if you ever have a bad dream, like a nightmare or something, creating a piece about it could be a way to deal with the fear that it brought? I mean, it can be bad dreams or sweet dreams or beautiful dreams. I always write whatever I think because for me, it could be like a story. You know, even if the soul is bad or good, I always use it. It's a part of a show when somebody insults a character with a very strong insult, and they use the word "F immigrant." There was a real moment that happened before the pandemic, maybe a year before, in 2018, that I was waiting in line to go to the movie theater. And then that lady was in line, and then she escaped the line.

And then I said, "Excuse me, the line is here." And then she right away turned back to me and said, "Go back to your country, F immigrant." Very bad. And I was like, "Whoa." And then, you know, I have one of my best friends was with me, my friend Chat. He was in shock, like, "Wow." And then I said, "You know what? Okay, it's very bad. But one day I will transform this bad, ugly, disgusting moment into a beautiful play one day in a show." And that happened in English with an Accent. I brought that moment into the show. It is really, really powerful in the show.

[16:56] Jose: Wow, that's incredible. So I was gonna ask you that as well. Like, you know, when people that know you, when your friends and family and the people around you listen to your music and they see you, they watch your performances, are they ever surprised because you're revealing to them a world that they're not aware exists? I'm sure your friend had never seen anyone be treated like that.

[17:20] Migguel Anggelo: Yeah, and there are, you know, my family and my friends that what you said, the people that know me, um, they know how kind of person I am. I didn't like to fight. I love basically everybody. You know, of course, I don't like sometimes I don't like, especially in politicians, like super hypocrite politicians, and what happened in my country with the communists and, you know, all this half of thing. I'm very open in that, and I told them. People say, "No, but Miguel, don't say that because you're an artist." No, no, no, I'm a human. And I get hurt when I see somebody's gonna hurt somebody else. You know, but when that happened to me, they know who I am. And you know, I get like I say, if you don't like me, okay, it's fine.

It's your problem. So I like you. If you don't, if I don't like you, it's, you know, um, it's like I always say, like an artist, we are like a painting. You go to a gallery or museum and you see a Picasso, and maybe somebody says, "Wow, what is beautiful?" and somebody says, "What is that? I don't know why he's famous. This is ridiculous." And somebody's like, "Oh, look at the lines." You know, anyway. So it's very subjective, uh, life as an artist. And I love that. Sometimes people say, "I don't like your music." I say, "Oh, perfect. Thank you." By the way, I don't get angry at all. I laugh. You know, and I say, "Okay," because for example, if it's my mom, she's my best friend. She saw me since I was a little baby that I was so weird and so gay.

She doesn't talk if she loves me and she supports me. What else? I don't care about everybody else. You know what I'm saying? My mom, until today, she's my best friend. I even before when I, you know, when I'm dating people and say, "I'm gonna see this guy." "Oh, he's so hot." And my mom, "Okay, she's so super cool." But yeah, you need to just check it out and just listen to good things, and if what somebody said bad things, just ignore it.

[19:28] Migguel Anggelo: Anyone who has seen one of your performances knows that it is a hybrid of everything that you mentioned earlier: dance, theater, musicals. But also, you become paintings, you become sculptures, you become living art in so many ways. So I wonder if those specific performances that you end up creating, are you dreaming up those and are you imagining those when you're writing the music? When you're in the process of the music, or do the performances become yet another beautiful discovery about that piece that you created can lead to?

[19:28] Migguel Anggelo: It's both. But you know, when I write or when I think about a show, I always think of myself as part of the audience. How or what I would love to see on the stage. So as an audience, and then I say, "You know, this needs to be like that." And then in the process, it's good. You get it, you keep it. But sometimes in the process, you do, and then you say, just like you say, you discover new things. "Oh, this is better." Or, you know, or people like, for example, Abiah Abi Haihaham, that he's a director and the choreographer that we found him in Israel, and he's an amazing, amazing choreographer and director. And I talk to him about what I want, what I'm trying to say because I say, "Abby, I want to, they look like humans.

We are humans, but at the same time, we're insects." And he's like, "I love it." And you know, and it's good because he's very Abby high in Israeli, he's very huge, and even in Europe. Actually, he did the latest video from John Baptiste. He's the one that did all the choreography, so he's very commercial. And I told him when we met him, I said, "I don't want commercial stuff. I want real art, like very deep and metaphoric poetry." So, and I said, he said, "What do you mean?" I say, "Imagine that you're going to create a choreography, direct a choreography for a Tim Burton movie because it's very dark." And I actually told the same to Scott Davis, the lighting designer, and I told the same to Ryan Spark, that's the guy that makes all the costumes to the producer David Stark.

So I told them this is like a beautiful dark poetry piece, and this is what happened when people went to Washington DC. If you see the trailer of the show, you can see the colors, they're very dark but beautiful. And I'm very happy. But it's very interesting what you say because, yeah, I always try to see what we love to see on the stage. And then sometimes worse, sometimes not. But this is the beautiful thing about art. You need to keep trying, you know.

[23:07] Migguel Anggelo: Like where you're at a concert, where you're watching a painting or something with this sense developers. That's like really beautiful. It's very considerate because not everyone thinks about the audience. It's dependent, you say that, you know, it's so funny. You say that, like when you say a painting. I'm crazy now, and I'm sure somebody's gonna steal after this interview the idea. I don't care. So, but you know, for me, it's so interesting the Guernica, the painting from Picasso. Picasso painted the big Guernica about the battle of Guernica, and for me, that would be beautiful for an opera. And then I say, "Oh, and then maybe one day I will write something about that." But even that, you know, what you say when you see a painting, you say, "Wow, what beautiful colors," or "What a beautiful, uh, what I wonder what he was in his mind."

You know, and in this case, for example, Vincent van Gogh or even Matisse, and you're like, "Wow," and that inspires you. For me, when I write songs, I like to write a lot with metaphors because I like the audience, because I believe, and I really believe the audience is smart. So I want them to think because for me, it's very stupid. And like you're going to see a show, and then they say, "A, B, C, D, F, F," and like, "Why?" You know, no. You know, people, for example, people like, "Oh, Broadway's amazing. I love Broadway." Yeah, Broadway is amazing, but sometimes I go into Broadway to see productions that are so incredibly expensive, like ridiculous expensive. They're like a ticket, a $300 ticket for a show, and trust me, in the intermission, I left.

I say, "I can't stay here." You know, and sometimes I go to see something that I pay $20 or $30 and even free. And I like, I'm blown away. Like, "Wow." Of course, sometimes you see in Broadway stars, like it's very expensive, amazing. You know, like one of my best experiences in Broadway to see a play was from Sam Mendes, The Ferryman. I don't know if you saw that when you were here. For me, that was one of the most amazing plays that I see in my life. That guy is a genius. So Kate Winslet, why you divorce him? Anyway, he's amazing, and I fall in love with how every time when he comes to New York City that he's directing something, I need to see it because I know it's gonna be amazing.

[26:00] Migguel Anggelo: So that's it. You know, Sam Mendes and Kate Winston, who are no longer collaborators. You tend to collaborate with the same people over and over and over again, yeah. You know, like Jaime, Joao Mohaime, Jaime's a genius, and Jaime's incredible. So, can you talk about the importance of you build a family with your collaborators? So, yes, how does that affect the kind of work that you do? You know, are you at a point with your collaborators that sometimes they don't have to speak because you can read each other's minds, so to speak?

[26:34] Migguel Anggelo: Yeah. Well, I think what you say is like it's really true because it could be an echo, it needs to be a connection. Um beside the Jaime is an amazing, amazing, amazing and genius, like and composition and orchestration. One thing that I love to work with Jaime, and maybe in the future, I will work with other person. You know, you never know. I would love to work with um oh my god, the guy that did Matt Ramson. I love I love Matt Ronson's work, you know, even I think even Pharrell Williams, he's incredible. But Jaime, I don't, but I don't know them. I know Jaime. And Jaime is just a beautiful human. And you sometimes you say, how a person so talented, so genius can be so fun and humble, you know, because I be working before with uh uh one of the musical directors, incredible talented, like whoa, like other genius, but so stupid that you don't want to see them anymore. Because when you work in the collaboration with somebody, it should be like this. It's like it's like a brothers and sisters. We're gonna do and for me, creating art is creating love.

[28:03] Migguel Anggelo: You know, uh you don't need, I don't care, I can't work with somebody that, for example, if I if I say, Oh, I like this idea, and the person say, for example, Jaime say, Great, but if it doesn't like it, you say, he tells me, for example, okay, Mika, why wouldn't we try this? So he tells the feedback in in a nice way. And then you hear and you say, That is great. But sometimes people, when you say something, sometimes people say, No, I don't care. I like, I don't like that. And you're like, okay, this is all supposed to be a collaboration. Because I believe in that. Even every if you if I want to make a painting, I need to go to the store to buy a canvas. And that person, that canvas was created by the person or I or a machine.

So it's all connection, it's all collaboration. We all in life, we need to collaborate with each other. And I think when a human in the in in the in the world, when they try to understand that if we work together with love, I think earth or the planet would be so completely different. But you know, it's always bad or hate in the world. But I always say that love is stronger than hate. Always say that.

[29:21] Jose: I agree with that. And I I'm glad that you talk about love because there's so much love in the album. Not only uh, you know, obviously, love for for the art and love for humanity and all of that, but you can feel the love that you're carrying of the people that that you left behind. You feel the love that you're carry for your your the music that you grew up with, the culture that you grew up with. And I love this beautiful plan uh cultures obviously. There's like you know, stories set in in America with uh boleto sound and with like you know, like a little like ta chat like mumbo sounds. So exactly is that how you would say you carry all the all the people you love with uh wherever you go?

[30:00] Migguel Anggelo: Yeah because you know i i always say that and i i even then right now and during the pandemic i became a united state citizen and i'm super proud because i think um new york especially uh in this country get opened the arms for me so and i'm always going to be grateful for that because i really really love new york city and like really love the united states but i'm completely proud and until the end i'm going to say that i'm venezuelan because I am latin and an immigrant and gay i'm brown so and i'm very happy i think i'm like a kind of uh iguana with the giraffe i don't know it's like it does mix you know and i uh one thing that i always going to put like this in high whatever if i became one day super famous or not until the day the day that i die i'm gonna say i was so happy to be or call myself a venezuelan because i am i love my country so sad that what happened there right now but uh those people those in those those communist people those dictators people they don't they're not my country they are there by mistake because they're like a kind of cancer, but one day that can't we as a scientist with law, we want to find a place that one day we're gonna find the cure, and then right away that cancer is gonna not be anymore there.

[31:42] Migguel Anggelo: But all my life I want to be so happy, like you say, and so proud to say I am a Latin American and I am an immigrant and I'm Venezuelan. So speaking of Venezuela and wanting to celebrate uh to her. If we were to have a Miguel Angelo Arepa, what would be in it? What would be the Phillips?

[32:05] Migguel Anggelo: Yeah. Oh, for your your signature arepa. Oh, right away it could be black beans, cheese, like a white uh white cheese, sweet plantains, fill it up with sweet plantains, and shred shredded uh beef, like you know, caremechada. Um that's it. And after you eat amazing arepa, we all coming out. Take one, in my case, I take one spoon of pecto bismo because my stomach is gonna be so bad, but I need to prepare the stomach, like but I love I love arepas, uh avocado avocado with cheese and mayo and chicken, it's called a reina pepiada. Oh everything you could put everything in an arepa, you know, everything, but need to be a Venezuelan arepa. I love Colombian arepa, but not but I don't like my Venezuelan arepas, especially like my grandmom, she used to make one uh arepas so delicious.

[33:14] Migguel Anggelo: Like, for example, I hate soup, I don't like soup. Now I now i i now i i like it. But growing up, I hate drinking soup because they what is this? And I only uh uh drink the soup from my grandma. I don't know why. I was like, that is this is delicious and she died like actually two years ago she was 91 but uh she got alzheimer's so it was very difficult for us to see a person that was so active and then forget everything she doesn't even recognize me when I say hey grandma she's like who are you and that was like like a nice in my heart but anyway and I'm sure she knows she's there actually in the album I dedicated the album to her too I'm so sorry that's how I lost my my my favorite grandma as well and I know we're talking about it's excessive yeah and I'm sure she she got Alzheimer's she got Alzheimer's too it's so sad no it's the humanizing it's it's horrible it's horrible for everyone for them for people around it's it's such a I don't know but I even I think even more for us because they are in kind like a kind of limbo you know like they are like I don't know my I remember when my mom said that my grandmother always had to say I need to go because we grew you know I grew up in the farm in Venezuela surrounded by chickens and cows and I was like a marimar Rosa Salva and you know my grand my grandma even right now with Alzheimer's and she say to my mom and my aunts, uh, I need to go.

And then they say, Where are you going? My grandmom. My my mother is uh calling me, and my great grand mom died maybe like I don't know, 60 years ago. I don't even know her. So and it's funny that she says that, like they're calling me. My father is calling me. We're like, whoa. And of course, I when I see those tasks where my grandmother happened, I wrote a song called Lola. My mother, my grandmother called Lola. I have a song about her, and it's very deep, it's very like emotional because I say, Do you remember me? And she's like, No. And it's about her. So, like I say all the time, even when I bad is a bad memory or good memory. I always crave, I try to crave beautiful things.

[35:54] Jose: Right, and there's also the that's something that's even I don't know, very thoughtful about it is that you remember her, obviously. And now so many people who never met her know her because of the song.

[36:05] Migguel Anggelo: Exactly. I'm sure she's very proud of you, and I'm sure she's gonna be there with you at Lincoln Center in early December. So, would you like to invite our viewers and our listeners to come see you? And also to get the album.

[36:20] Migguel Anggelo: Yeah, like actually, yeah, you remember like the song The Wind in the beginning is a woman that's talking, just it's my mom. It's my mom, like she always said, you know, you know, like the our mothers in Latin America, they always like uh I say, Okay, mom, I'm going to the weekend to a friend. Oh my gosh, and they pray like a 75 rosaries and 50 candles, and so I just go to the week for the weekend. And then they ask, why I don't know why Miguel is so dramatic. Hello. With a mother like that, how I'm gonna be dramatic? Yeah, but I I believe in that, you know, like a um like people that you love forever with the spirits, you know, they're always gonna be with you.

[37:11] Migguel Anggelo: The show, um people need to check it out every day because yeah, because it's already sold out. So yeah, the three shows is already sold out, but uh I we call we talk with, you know, we talk with the Lincoln Center and say, please please, please. Um, can you put more chairs? I don't know what happened. We can you, you know, can you move the theater? And because the the clerks the clerk theater is kind of a black box, so you can adapt whatever you want for your presentation. So, and they say absolutely we're going to release more chairs. So, people you need to every day check, as in especially close to the show, it's December 1st, 2 and 3. And at the Clark's theater is the big building at the Lincoln Center and the seven floor. It's easy to go, and I hope that you like it. I think it's gonna be so cool. I can't wait to see everybody in New York City. Uh and I'm sure people's gonna a lot of people's gonna be identified.

[38:20] Migguel Anggelo: Identify, it's cool. How you say identificarse in English? Identified, yeah, yeah. They're gonna find, I'm sure they're gonna see themselves on the stage. So, and I I'm very, very excited. They're gonna see themselves an incredible artist and performance. So, Mikhail, uh, thank you so much for collect. Break a leg and I'll I'll see you around.

[38:39] Migguel Anggelo: Thank you so much, Joseph.